250r crank seal question

[trikeguy2014]

Some of you have seen my build thread for my 250r. I have begun working on my engine and one thing i wanted to replace was the clutch side crank seal. I had noticed a little loss of trans fluid, and more smoking then normal right before i had started my process. Whether is was/is bad I figured i would replace it anyways.

As of now I really never done much of my own engine work, i have a local guy that typically does my work but its time to just save some money and learn these engines.

I pulled everything apart got to the crank seal with no issues following the service manual.

After getting to this point i realized i did not pay attention to the gear positioning on the clutch basket, water pump, or the two gears coming off the crank shaft.

My question being is there any timing/positioning issues with these gears i should have noted before re assembling?

Also I left it in gear during this disassembly, will this cause any issues, does it matter, or should i have put it in neutral?

Any help for the newb engine guy would be appreciated.

[shortline10]

The counter balancer and crank gear have alignment dots . Look at the gears their clearly marked .

[trikeguy2014]

I looked back and yes, they are clearly marked
the crank is marked, and there is an inner and outer mark on the cranks gear, and a mark on the counter balancer

Is that all there is to do is line the cranks dot up with its gears inner dot and the outer dot inline with the counter balancer?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/39569b267e3593db2b773e46d7b26156.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/30d02d940af7945e23ba732ac29edd71.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shortline10]

Yes that's it :)

[El Camexican]

It's great that you're learning to do all this on your own!

Make sure to install your new seals perfectly parallel with the bores that they fit in and put a little bit of lubricant on the lips before you insert your shafts. Also be sure to do a pressure test on the engine before you start it up for the first time. This step is a must if you want your engine to live a long healthy life.

Remember that the only stupid question is the one you forgot to ask. :)

[trikeguy2014]

Awesome, will do, and thanks guys, I haven't got my new seal yet I ordered a moose complete seal and gasket kit. The price was right and I'll need the gaskets for the clutch cover, stator cover, reeds, etc. Everything I've read says I should only use OEM seals so I probably need to get a one of those on the way.

Also I saw a positioning dot on the end of the kickstart shaft, but could not find what it gets postioned with?

[shortline10]

That kicker dot positions the spring tension correctly , the other dot should be on the inner side of the shaft .

[El Camexican]

Everything I've read says I should only use OEM seals so I probably need to get a one of those on the way.

I've got Moose seals in both of my dirtbike engines and have never had a problem going on 8 years, but you can't go wrong with OEM, so as you wish. You are replacing both, right?

[Usmoneylover]

Interesting that 'out' is spelled incorrectly on that gear.

[trikeguy2014]

Just clutch side crank seal for now... and yes I guess it is spelled wrong I hadn't noticed until you said something

I've been to busy with work, hopefully this weekend I will have my seals and gaskets and I can get it put back together

[Dirtcrasher]

It also doesn't matter what gear it was in when you tore it down

As long as the 3 forks have their marks facing the correct way, and the transmission gears, thrust washers, splined washers and clips are all where they need to be.

Some rotations of the shift drum do make it easier to spin the shafts and test things out before buttoning the cases up. Just make sure it shifts correctly....

Place corners of bags and or thin plastic wrap over any shafts going into a seal, lube it up as well. If not, you can tear into one of the seal lips.

The "R" motor is one of the easiest to rebuild and GREAT ADVICE to pressure test everything before you run it!!

[El Camexican]

Just clutch side crank seal for now... and yes I guess it is spelled wrong I hadn't noticed until you said something

I've been to busy with work, hopefully this weekend I will have my seals and gaskets and I can get it put back together

Assuming you're splitting your cases to change the RH seal I would strongly recommend you change the LH seal as well as the output shaft seal.

[350for350]

El Ca's right. They're probably the same age. You tore it down because one's leaking. You don't want to do this again in a short time because you didn't replace both now. Who knows? The other seal might leak when you put it back together and pressure test it.

[trikeguy2014]

Got seal in, I didn't spilt cases or remove anything from the stator side so just going to replace the clutch side crank seal for now.

I will a leak down text done, that will be good idea so I can be sure it's ready to go

New question! I was looking through the service manual for torque specs and saw this picture showing a washer collar then washer on kickstart shaft... mine only has the washer under the collar.

Should I try to find on to match the one underneath or just go without since I haven't had any issues

I didn't loose it it definitely someone previous of me. I have a picture when I first removed the clutch cover and it was not on in that picture

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/b84a30581f1aca73438a7fa0ce9e46d9.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Red Rider]

Is the other washer stuck to the inside of your clutch cover?

[barnett468]

It will work without the washer, however, I would get one, then after installing it, put the clutch cover on without the gasket and just very lightly tighten a few screws then check to see if there is any clearance between the cover and the case . It there is clearance, there is a problem . If there is not, it is fine.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[Dirtcrasher]

I somehow recall that Honda went from a 3 piece (washer spacer washer). to a different design....

[trikeguy2014]

Nope I thought same thing after I realized I was missing it.

[RoscoW]

D.C that was a change on the transmission main shaft in the clutch basket. I thought so too and went to look.....


Ross..

[christph]

Sounds like you already put the seal in, but I would just warn you not to push it in too far. On the 250R there is no lip that keeps the seals from being pushed into the crank bearings and rubbing. I did it myself a few years ago and I had to replace the seal.

[trikeguy2014]

I got everything back together and with some help from everyone I think I will be good to go.

Crank seal is installed, used screws and a puller I made to get old it out. Worked well. I seated the new one very very close if not the same as the old one was so I do not think I have it installed to deep where it will rub anything

I made it to a hard ware store and found a machinist washer that was the same size, however I did not end up using the top one as it was interfering with the clutch cover. Only thing I thought of was I did have a kickstart return spring and kicker gears replaced in this motor several years ago. Maybe they shimmed it different and left that washer out for a reason, but I couldn't clear the extra so that answers that I guess

I got all of my alignment marks lined up and torqued everything down properly and from what I can tell I should be good.

[trikeguy2014]

I'm starting my top end rebuild now. I took cylinder off today and inspected some things today. If I have any issues with it I'll be sure to post back. But seemingly straight forward I hope to be posting back on the build forum with pictures of a completed winter project here soon!

[newby200x]

There was a update on the kickshaft collar in 86. It went to a thicker wall collar and I believe eliminated the washers all together. I did this upgrade to my 85 and it vastly improved the kickstart engaging. http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/141508-Is-it-common-for-1985-honda-250r-atc-kickstarter-to-slip

[Dirtcrasher]

^Yep, You and Mike got it!!

Mainshaft did not change...