making a 200s water cooled?

[schlepp29]

I was wondering if it's possible to make a top end of a 200s water cooled? I was wondering if I cut the cooling fins off and wrap aluminum pipe and weld solid. Run an external water pump with rads. Like I said, didn't know if this would be possible. if anyone has ever done something similar to this I'd like to hear about it

[plevib]

Why? Why in the name of God would you even want to try?

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[schlepp29]

Wouldn't it run cooler? I thought and don't hold me to this but I thought there was kits back in the day.

[Weis003]

Don't know why you need to do that either but here in Wisconsin we used to run copper lines in between the cooling fins on the air cooled snowmobiles to run then in gokarts in the summer


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[schlepp29]

Thanks, yeah I was wondering if that would work. Well to not look like a total idiot and I know alot of you might be wondering why but an auto x or 200s with some motor mods and such I just thought it would be neat to make a fun little flat tracker. I mean heck that's what happened to other bikes like the old thumpers. I figured if I can get it to run cooler it might be better.

[hippyplz]

you could run a oil cooler if worried about heat.

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[schlepp29]

Yes heat was a concern . thanks

[yaegerb]

I was wondering if it's possible to make a top end of a 200s water cooled? I was wondering if I cut the cooling fins off and wrap aluminum pipe and weld solid. Run an external water pump with rads. Like I said, didn't know if this would be possible. if anyone has ever done something similar to this I'd like to hear about it

I am sure it's possible, but cooling fins work just fine. Come to think of it, I have never heat seized a 200cc platform. Keep the oil clean and replace rings/valve seals when necessary and they will run forever.

[schlepp29]

Thanks yaegerb, but a quick question for ya though, at what point does cc's,horsepower, rpms etc does water cooling become more needed? Back to when I started this thread was the question (is it possible ) and thank you for answering that. I'm sure a 200 cc is really hard to make a fire breather. But when it comes to mod ding something out at what point would it be necessary? Thanks again

[yaegerb]

I have modded them as far as our current technology will allow and if you run the proper octane, in conjunction with clean oil, they make out just fine.

[schlepp29]

Nice, I also thought it would have been neat to build one not that I would but just to have something different, besides tinkering is a lot of fun for me. Honda made a water cooled xr, it ran for 7 years in production and they possibly discontinued it for the reasons (why)but I don't know what there reason was. Every body loved those motor's. It would be awesome to see an x or s liquid cooled for just because why not.

[ironchop]

I'm sure a 200 cc is really hard to make a fire breather. But when it comes to mod ding something out at what point would it be necessary? Thanks again

Not hard at all to make big improvements in power with the Honda 185/200 series four strokes. The topend are all pretty much the same except minor details like a compression release. Anything you can get topend-wise for the 83-85 200X (like cams, high comp pistons, better valve springs, etc) will fit on a 185/200 ATC topend.

If you really are worried about cooling, here's an oil cooler mod I did on a 200X once but like yaegerB said, I've also never heat seized one no matter how hard I rode it....

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/128834-1st-gen-200X-oil-cooler-install-UPDATE-PART-III-Done!!



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[schlepp29]

Thanks! I'll definitely be doing this for my rider s,thanks iro chop

[6bt]

Nice, I also thought it would have been neat to build one not that I would but just to have something different, besides tinkering is a lot of fun for me. Honda made a water cooled xr, it ran for 7 years in production and they possibly discontinued it for the reasons (why)but I don't know what there reason was. Every body loved those motor's. It would be awesome to see an x or s liquid cooled for just because why not.
The xr650r? They're a fine bike and make a good dual sport if you find a plated one. One of the few dirtbikes they actually make a good dual sport if you don't mind kicking. I think it was replaced by the crf450r...Which was kind of a step down IMO for what I like it for.

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[atc300r]

You could install a Honda crf 250 motor in your trike.

[schlepp29]

That would be awesome. I have a 200x with an s motor. When I originally posted this I was just brain storming for some ideas more less. Apparently that's not a good idea.,lol! A 200x with a crf 250 would make a really sweet bike. Are the crf's electric start nowadays? Or is there a way to reverse the kicker? And just so I'm clear you are referring to the mx crf?

[atc300r]

Yes, The crf dirtbike motor. Im not sure if they have electric start or not.

[schlepp29]

The crf 150r would also make a nice motor

[plevib]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262731215950

I've been toying pretty hard with the idea of putting one of these in a 200x. I know it's Chinese but most people say they don't have any problems with zongshen, and you can't beat that price! Plus it has electric start and 26hp.......

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[barnett468]

COOLING FINS

Another way to make it run cooler is to increase the size of the fins . This can be done fairly easily by welding some additional material onto the existing fins . Most of the heat will be in the head and upper portion of the cylinder . When I worked at Kawasaki we often did heat tests on the bikes, and in some cases we did in fact have to increase the size of the fins to reduce operating temps so they would not overheat under extreme conditions . For example, the original Tecate had fairly serious overheating problems during prototype testing and it was determined that the rock screen in front of the rad was inhibiting air flow . After we went to a different screen the temp was reduced to an acceptable level . The prototype KLT110 ran incredibly hot so we increased the size of the fins which corrected its problem.


OIL

Something else that is extremely important to reducing the potential for heat related damage is to use a high quality, shear free oil . Shear free oils are far more resistant to degradation and reduction in viscosity from high temps . All Group IV and Group V oils are considered to be shear free because they do not use viscosity improvers like all multi weight conventional oils do.

It is also important to use is oil that has what some refer to as "high levels" of ZDDP or ZDDB . The general industry consensus is that between 1250 ppm and 1800 ppm is the optimum range.

One more thing is that it is best to use an oil that is designed for a wet clutch on bikes that have a wet clutch . If an oil is designed for use in a wet clutch engine it will usually say so on the bottle.

Thinner oils produce less heat than thicker oil, however, using an oil that is too thin for the application will cause damage to the engine . In general the higher the quality of the oil, the thinner it can be and still provide sufficient protection . In fact, there are some oils that have a multi zero rating like 000w-10 for example . The factory recommended viscosity on the Honda Hybrid car I have is 0w-20 and it revs to 6000 rpm.

There are several companies that make some shear free oils . Mobil 1, Pennrite and Joe Gibbs Racing are just a few of them . If you want to use a 20w-50 shear free oil, Mobil 1 V Twin oil is xlnt and is easy to find . Many motorcycle shops and auto parts stores carry it . It can also be ordered through Wallyworld.


SPARK PLUG HEAT RANGE

A general rule of thumb is to reduce the heat range of the spark plug by one step from the recommended factory heat range for every 1 to 1 1/2 points the compression is increased.


Below is a laboratory analysis of the Mobil 1 V Twin oil courtesy of a member from bobistheoilguy site.

http://www.rangerxlt.com/images/forums/vehicles/Harley/VirginM1VTwin.jpg



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

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[ironchop]

What are you looking to do?

Are you dissatisfied with the S motor? Do you want to do something radical?

Originally I built an 83 200X. I rode it a little and I thought it was anemic so I had decided to build an 85 Tecate I bought. I kept complaining about lack of power so Mike Baker piped up and suggested I buy an aftermarket cam and pipe so I got a Megacycles cam and a Supertrapp. I was REALLY impressed with the power increase.

My point is, the first gen 200X topend is pretty much all interchangeable with the 200S. You could put any aftermarket cam made for an 83-85 ATC 200X into the 200S topend. Web Cam and Megacycles each offer three or four kinds of grinds to fit your needs. I can vouch for Megacycles quality and tech support. Keeping the compression release that came on the S is a good idea. Then you can bump up your compression ration in either 12:1 or 10.5:1 and not rip your arm off trying to start it.... 12:1 might still break the cord though

One thing to remember with the 200X. You can modify it with whatever motor your fabrication skill level will allow but you are still left with that suspension and chassis which leaves much to be desired


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[fabiodriven]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/181475-quot-Liquid-X-quot

[schlepp29]

Liquid x! But the prototype thought was an oddball auto x liquid cooled. Sure makes no sense other than unique. But now I'm hell bent for the crf! I can see it now, lowered, 250r front fender, just pure stealth. Barnett468, I like what I read! I love the r and d stuff

[schlepp29]

Plevib, is that like a pitbike motor or is that the up right motor with 4 speed and reverse?

[schlepp29]

Oh ok, I just checked out that zongshen, that's not bad

[schlepp29]

I also looked at fabidrivens post and I remember old skool building this. He builds nice stuff!

[knappyfeet]

Liquid x! But the prototype thought was an oddball auto x liquid cooled. Sure makes no sense other than unique. But now I'm hell bent for the crf! I can see it now, lowered, 250r front fender, just pure stealth. Barnett468, I like what I read! I love the r and d stuff

Liguid X has a reverse and an electric start.

Oddball?........then make it epic with this http://www.ecotrons.com

Turbo and FI......now that's what's up

[schlepp29]

Haaa! I love it

[x-rider]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262731215950


I've been toying pretty hard with the idea of putting one of these in a 200x. I know it's Chinese but most people say they don't have any problems with zongshen, and you can't beat that price! Plus it has electric start and 26hp.......

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That is the motor I would have liked for my "Liquid x" build.

[x-rider]

Liguid X has a reverse and an electric start.

Oddball?........then make it epic with this http://www.ecotrons.com

Turbo and FI......now that's what's up
How much gains would we be talking? I couldn't see it being that much worth while on a 200cc engine. Maybe 500cc or above and I would think about it.

[schlepp29]

I think just fuel injection would be cool regardless of hp. But that's just me.

[schlepp29]

When I'm ready for this project I'll probably just stick to just the crf motor. But it's fun to wish. And no tattoos here, lol

[Ghostv2]

I think it`s very cerebral of you to spend 14 times what the bikes worth .......you must have awesome tattoos and piercings as well........i know it`s boring around here .....

I think more than half of the "top tier" builds have 14 times as much money into them than their worth. Hell that's why you see plain Jane big bore liquid R's or even stock motor R's go up for sale and you see people asking $5,000 for a $2-2.5k bike. With any of these bikes you rarely get back what you put into them.

Maybe I'm a purist, and a lover of OEM bikes and a self acclaimed collector of Ohtsu H-Trak I & II's that belonged on these hardtails, but nothing beats a solid unmolested hardtail. You can beat the snot out of them, run them through ponds, and they keep on truckin. Fully sealed brakes, chain, air box with a fairly high intake, auto clutch, they just don't break down if properly maintained. Time after time out in the rough trails here in PA making our own trails i kept seeing my buddy struggle (him on a 200x and two of us on 200s') and kept getting stuck climbing over logs, stuck in mud, stalling on a hill with obstacles, but our crew of hardtails could ride circles around them. With the original tires they have a nice ride. With mud tires you can crawl through any pit. Don't get me wrong I love hopped up bikes, but I like my smaller bikes unmolested. Like Keister's sexy 125m.

[fabiodriven]

. Like Keister's sexy 125m.

That's different. That's a 125mmmMMMMMmmmm.

[350for350]

To make your Autox water cooled, wouldn't just be easier to ride through some deep puddles? More fun anyway.

[schlepp29]

I have a stock 200s and it's my favorite bike to ride. They go about every where I pointed it at. In fact all my bikes are stock except my r,it's an esr 310