My 1986 ATC250R Adventure [Archive]

ironchop

03-06-2017, 12:40 AM

I got an 86 250R chassis off Eric Banks a couple years ago and bought an 85 motor off eBay last fall. This is the story of what happened when I tried to put them together and get it running hopefully by TF2017.

Im not good about documenting things and taking pics of every step because I get in a mental 'zone' and do a bunch of work before I remember to take pics of stuff. Please be patient.

The goal is to assemble a running riding trike in good order. Stock setup outside of a pipe and aftermarket reeds plus whatever needs replaced on the motor after I split the cases. Story on why, later.

Part one: I started rehabbing the swingarm because it had wicked bad chain rash. I blasted off the paint and marked the bad spots with a Sharpie to help me find them with my welding helmet on

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/6a852b344cf7f063235b9e8400cd067d.jpg
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ironchop

03-06-2017, 12:41 AM

After welding.....I also welded a nut onto the broken bolt in the chain slider boss so I could remove it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/9bc1bcc5d4f70b0401c9910bb2cb0c3a.jpg

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ironchop

03-06-2017, 12:43 AM

After grinding...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/84438948c05b662e516243f3fe789cf5.jpg
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ironchop

03-06-2017, 12:46 AM

I got Duplicolor Universal Gold and rattle canned the swingarm and then applied the new repop decals I got from Jeff Blackburn (pantera1975). Perfect color match with the Duplicolor paint......

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/437007250e33a38e4d1235cdd6066736.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/2a17255d538294bb7a0871e69a27e959.jpg

More updates later as they come

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yaegerb

03-06-2017, 01:01 AM

knappyfeet

03-06-2017, 01:05 AM

That duplicolor gold is a nice.......good job

RIDE-RED 250r

03-06-2017, 08:28 AM

Nice work Doug.. Jeff's decals are terrific too, have a couple of his sets myself. :beer

ironchop

03-06-2017, 05:55 PM

Bought this rear caliper for $35 shipped because "pad hanger pins are stripped out" (the Allen heads). Pistons were stuck good too. I used easy-outs on the hanger pins after soaking the whole caliper in AeroKroil for a week. I had to blast off the old paint and then ended up blocking off the brake line hole and then I cracked open the bleeder and pumped grease into the works to pop the pistons out to change seals and clean out the corrosion behind them. They wouldn't blow out with air.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/bacf6f58bf5847e73fe22960ce35bac1.jpg

Cleaned all the goo out and purchased new pistons and seals after a quick shot of grey and installed them. Bracket got blasted and painted too but I'm waiting on new slider pins and boots before I attach it to the caliper.

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Got bored at lunch so I blasted the rear brake pedal and painted it with Cerokote Graphite Black. It's a firearm finish that I thought I'd try on ATC parts that get alot of finish wear to see if it holds up any better.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/b82da2346e7d69936986dc32414a5c5c.jpg

I'll probably shoot the top tree with that stuff too.

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Scootertrash

03-06-2017, 06:31 PM

Nice work!

Mr. Clean

03-06-2017, 06:51 PM

Very cool, contact me as you find needs for misc parts pieces, grommets etc.

ironchop

03-07-2017, 10:06 AM

Started going over the frame. I chased all the threads clean. There were four broke off bolts in various holes. I was able to weld a nut on three of them and remove easy enough but the fourth needed to get drilled out.

The rear grab bar bolt holes were trashed but alot of them are and it's an easy fix. I ground off the old nuts and just spot welded new ones on...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170307/fb7937f2717592d5be6f870c51899498.jpg

So when I was removing the rear brake pedal, I noticed some slop. I was able to clean the pedal shaft pretty good but there was a little bit of pitting. Still usable though. Inside the boss on the frame was really crusty though and once I cleaned it out, it was all crunchy in there. I HATE a sloppy break pedal so I decided to drill out the whole boss and ream it to 22mm, make a sleeve to fit inside with an 18mm hole for the pedal shaft, then drilled holes in the side of the old boss and plug welded the sleeve in and grind to hide them...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170307/edf4cd5bf79aedc652080af444f2605d.jpg

I didn't maintain the counter bore for the OEM seals in the new sleeve. They are difficult to find and weren't exactly fool proof anyway. I'll just be sure to maintain lubrication in there.

Next step is to blast paint off and check again for cracks before being sent out for powder coat.

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Dirtcrasher

03-07-2017, 12:51 PM

^ And THAT'S how it's done!!

When I get frozen slide pins. I drill a small hole in the back of the casting in order to press them out. Then I tap it for a small grease fitting.....

Looking great bud!!

ironchop

03-07-2017, 02:35 PM

When I get frozen slide pins. I drill a small hole in the back of the casting in order to press them out. Then I tap it for a small grease fitting....

Never thought of that. Great tip!

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YTZ drew

03-07-2017, 10:58 PM

Nice work, Doug! Can't wait to see the finished product!

ironchop

03-08-2017, 11:08 AM

Cylinder cursory inspection....

Appears to be stock bore. Note that I'm using dial calipers. That is NOT a good way to measure your cylinder. I only used them as a quick reference tool to see where I'm starting from. For any other cylinder measurements I would be using a dial bore indicator to check for taper and out-of-round conditions but for what I need to know right now, these calipers will do....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170308/14c9ca2604081508ed8fdc970bae3130.jpg

There are a few small scratches that require a new bore.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170308/776436e6603a809b029a1fa3f9f4125a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170308/fafaa3a417f10228e14363eaccf5d351.jpg

So it looks like I need a new 66.5 piston and rings and I'm totally buried at work so I'm going to outsource the bore job.

Any recommendations?

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yaegerb

03-08-2017, 11:25 AM

Jeff at FAST racing. He can usually turn a bore around in 2-3 days depending on how much port work he has lined up. Also, he can get you a piston, chamfer the ports, and size your rings before sending back. Bore is 50, ring sizing is 10, chamfer is 10 then you pay for the piston he orders and shipping both ways. Good deal if you ask me. Oh and I recommend a wiseco pro-lite.

fabiodriven

03-08-2017, 11:27 AM

Scratches too deep for a hone?

ironchop

03-08-2017, 11:39 AM

Scratches too deep for a hone?
I'm not sure John, if you'll notice I did try to run a hone thru it but I don't have a ball hone but rather the cheapy kind. It gets caught in the top notch of the intake port if you push it in too far so I stopped messing with it till I get the proper stuff. IMO that scratch is probably .001-.002 deep which is too much to hone.

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ironchop

03-08-2017, 11:58 AM

These two are the ones I'm concerned with...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170308/3f168dbf3662c8b96e757eda5032df42.jpg

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yaegerb

03-08-2017, 01:36 PM

These two are the ones I'm concerned with...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170308/3f168dbf3662c8b96e757eda5032df42.jpg

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My rule of thumb is if after a hone you can catch a fingernail on it then it needs to be bored. From what I see those are pretty deep. Also, I am looking at your intake side transfers and they are definitely not chamfered. I would definitely send out for bore and chamfer.

atc007

03-08-2017, 02:03 PM

What a treat to watch Doug. Thanx. I 3rd def bore it next size.

ironchop

03-08-2017, 02:34 PM

What a treat to watch Doug. Thanx. I 3rd def bore it next size.
Well it's been interesting for sure Bill. I kept hoping for miracles but it all pretty much needs attention. Wait till I get the crank pics up. Theres a few plot twists in that one too. I'll get that part up later today or tomorrow.

I'm probably going over budget by $1000 bucks before it's all said and done. I thought I could do it for about $1800 but it will be more like $2800. I have alot of new stuff I haven't posted yet that I've been collecting for a year for this thing and I have about 80% of what I need.

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coolpool

03-08-2017, 07:14 PM

Mad skills Doug! Glad to see someone actually fixing something versus replacing it with another unit. Most folks would've just bought replacement parts. And thanks, you've confirmed that I'm officially a "grinder" and not a "welder"; you're work is nicely done!

ironchop

03-08-2017, 09:27 PM

OK....About that crank and rod assembly. So I get the topend off and the first thing I see was this....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/5cafcd872fb1c6c1bbd9eb9d4df11240.jpg

Intake side. So I check the reed cage and all the screws are in their place so I'm not sure WTF happened but there is a very small corresponding scratch on the bottom edge of the intake port. Grrrrr....That means a piece of something metal got into the intake tract where the piston clipped it and dropped it onto the crank and down into the crankcase.....Not so fast....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/ff1379dbf1de512cbee1e07c87c3cbdb.jpg

First, it bounced around on top that rod while the rod tried to pummel it thru the gap between the case and crank. Their are dings and deep scratches with raised burrs all over the rod right there so it's structural integrity is comprised even if just a little. The worse part is the screw or whatever was gone so obviously it got beat to pieces before it fell into the crankcase.....Right over the top of that slot in the rod where oil can lube that bearing. Worse place for metal to get pulverized so that rod bearing has to come out. Crank work. Not in the budget.

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ironchop

03-08-2017, 09:55 PM

So I'm handling this pretty well considering I was optimistic about not having to do bottom end work outside of clutch and maybe main seals. Now I'm thinking I need to make calls and get some quotes for pressing crankshafts apart. So I start making calls and texts for advice and quotes and the average is about $200 and up after you buy rod and bearings and pay shipping that boat anchor both ways. I'm just about to invent a box that UPS can't kill to hold a crank when I stumbled upon a HotRods crank/rod assembly for $185 shipped.....Uh OK. So I just sit here on the couch, shoot a PayPal payment and wait on an assembled crank to get dropped off. No box making. No driving to the post office. No praying that my crank doesn't get dragged down I-65 on its way there from behind the truck or tossed from the third floor of the airport into the package wagon being towed out to the Big Brown Plane.....This statement proves ironic here in just a second.

So I pull the trigger and order a new HotRods crank assembly for 85-86 ATC250R. I go ahead and order the bearings and seals from them too and wait giddy with anticipation as I'm sure my dilemna was now solved with the stroke of a Visa card. Ha!

So three days later, my crank shows up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/d5330915f7d2ab7732cd627bfcf319f9.jpg

Well, there are no holes in the box or anything s I guess it just got munched a little...

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Huh..A second box...Wait, what's with those holes punched outward?

Hmmmm

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/fb3f23d516d609afd9765e3dfc492d93.jpg

So there was another of those grey expanding foam packs on top of the crank but that didn't stop that sucker from trying to get out the box. I guess I'll send this back and request another. The threaded end of the crank was undamaged as was the plastic bag over it. I'm not sure though if that rod got torqued sideways and dinged those thrust bearings on the sides. It didn't poke thru the outer box but I'm almost afraid to use it because who knows what they ran over the box with.

I don't like when my momentum hits a wall.

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Mr. Clean

03-08-2017, 11:12 PM

Do you have a shiny red tank for this project? I cannot remember??!!

ironchop

03-08-2017, 11:22 PM

Do you have a shiny red tank for this project? I cannot remember??!!
I sure do!

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yaegerb

03-08-2017, 11:40 PM

What in the hell??? That crank was moving in the box the whole time? Enough to poke holes? Yeah, um, get another one....that's bs

coolpool

03-10-2017, 12:14 AM

Hopefully the company is reputable and switches it out. What a shame to only package it half azzed.

ironchop

03-10-2017, 01:07 AM

It was actually packed pretty good but when you drop a 15 pound chunk of steel with pointy ends without covering those with cardboard or pvc tubes or something, it punches right between the seam in the foam. Anyway, it was an eBay deal using PayPal so I'm good I'm sure. I put in a return request and I do recall the seller has close to 20K transactions with 99.8% positive feedback. I'm picky about eBay for this reason.

Don't worry, be happy.

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ironchop

03-13-2017, 10:41 AM

So they are sending me another crank assembly..... Meanwhile, I thought I'd tackle the seat.

Doesnt look bad but I wanted a new cover soooo....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/7e735f464a3f877c7e82aa4cb34c2268.jpg

Yeah, it's going to need new foam...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/10ce3da9b75e0f0a1aba3e3c94996a8c.jpg

Dammit.....Broken stud....I guess I need to find another pan with good studs...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/b7346009e9ee586ed554e45aea91beb6.jpg

Hell no, I don't have time for that. Must be a solution....So I drilled out the broken stud and was going to retap for 6.0mmx1.00.....In the meantime I got it too hot and the flange started to pull out of the plastic pan. Crap. I noticed the flange was square so I cleaned up the melted part with a chisel...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/8c8973b87e4be9fe38035ae6ae791d53.jpg

So I tapped the square flange and screwed a 6mm bolt thru it ...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/adcb242859648d33304001a46dc0a873.jpg

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ironchop

03-13-2017, 10:45 AM

I punched the threads on the bolt where it meets the square nut to help lock it on. Now I need to fill the crater with some epoxy to help anchor it....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/aa5a6dd0237586e965da48da90064ccb.jpg

Mixy Mixy

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/c7862c08f07ad95ae5ed28984ac8b9cb.jpg

Scrape off the excess...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/6c937cea575d2b66e86a8161713ae7fe.jpg

Leave that to set up for 24 hrs and then we can recover the seat.

Stay tuned.....

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atc300r

03-13-2017, 01:04 PM

Cool build thread. Cant wait to get started on my 85 liquid racer build. I put my lower cases together with a new hot rods crank. I had to put the crank in the freezer overnight and heat the bearing with a heatgun . Crank dropped right in the bearing with no issues.

ezmoney1979

03-13-2017, 02:22 PM

Great job fixing that seat pan. I have a Tecate seat that needs that done. Thanks for the idea.

ironchop

03-13-2017, 08:16 PM

Ok so this petcock is a mess and I'm not going to put that mess on my shiny tank and the screen is junk anyway...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170314/ac694a1d2137258111e762b9ed4c6026.jpg

So I go shopping for a new one and promptly have a stroke. No way I'm paying $85 for an OEM petcock. So I used a couple of these ten years ago on a Triumph chopper I was building and had pretty good results. They cost $21 shipped. The block of aluminum was free from the scrap bin.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170314/300fa9e87c45a63ddcfa13d67c935339.jpg

So I decided to draw up a flange based on the original that can be pipe tapped for 1/4 NPT. I always use aftermarket fuel filters between tank and carb so I can confirm fuel flow and filter leavins if I need to. I generated a program and tossed the block in the vertical mill center and machined a new flange.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170314/a2778167b8fb66a3e30d0fc3deed93e3.jpg

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I'm probably going to mill off another .100 to put the valve closer to the flange but I'm not sure yet. I'm just happy to save myself $60 on a stupid petcock.

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Eric250R

03-13-2017, 11:56 PM

I was bummed to see it go, but now I'm really happy it has found a good home. I knew you'd get it up and going but damn man, you're going all out. Really look forward to seeing it in person.

ironchop

03-14-2017, 12:17 AM

I was bummed to see it go, but now I'm really happy it has found a good home. I knew you'd get it up and going but damn man, you're going all out. Really look forward to seeing it in person.
Not too much. I wanted to save as much of what I got from you as I could. I like to recycle. I'm trying not to go OCD on this one like the 200X that veered off budget. I'm keeping the jug and head stock. I did buy the clutch upgrade because it's an 85 motor but the rod I hadn't counted on. I went crazy $$ on the pipe but that's because I'll never have to upgrade that ever again no matter what I mod elsewhere. I want to keep it stock for reliability and financial reasons. It's easy to drop $5K on a 250R build.

It's kind of a frankenbuild. I'm not even repainting the motor. It's still got a great coat of black on it and I don't care if it doesn't look correct on an 86 chassis.

Did you ever see the tank after Mr. Clean got ahold of it? That will blow your mind.

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ironchop

03-15-2017, 08:50 AM

Well I didn't get very much done yesterday except shorten that petcock flange by about 0.05 and time the pipe tap so that the valve is clocked correctly when fully tightened.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/904fecbc0bb69101c490f5f83cf6f4c3.jpg

I did have a blasted top tree ready for paint so I broke out the Cerakote and masking tape again...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/2230a409fcde32a3ab2db47a35ed2650.jpg

I have to say, I'm really impressed with the Paasch airbrush I've been painting small parts with. Adjusted correctly, it only delivers just enough paint to cover with less chance for runs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/3fc621a145c5fa1f7472703330710a82.jpg

Hoping to make some real progress this weekend.

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Joseph Farrow

03-15-2017, 09:50 AM

Good Stuff Ironchop!

ironchop

03-15-2017, 02:45 PM

Ok, well I decided to cover the seat myself. Originally, I planned to send it to Cosmic Quads but this bike is no show piece by any stretch and any money I can save on this over-budget project is needed for other things I can't save. It's just a rider. Well that may have proved to not be such a great idea after all. I purchased a seat cover and foam kit from H-Flite. $175 shipped to the house, I think.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/44fec58b7b945cdf1a8f88714bfef46c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/9ded9e6064638f98f1e80d6fbb97f63f.jpg

The foam is an 85 profile, not the 86 profile which is a tad shorter. I figured the cover would be sewn to fit but honestly, I've done two other seats myself and I wrestled with those covers alot less than this one. The logo is crooked too. I thought it was over-stretched in some places making it look like that but a quick measure confirms that it's slightly crooked after I pulled the Staples back out to release the tension.
The foam is nice but the cover leaves a little to be desired. Probably should have just used Cosmic to begin with but you live and learn, right?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/64c9e03ba4d575e2e13ab6e99ecf3436.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/3fa5e0f0ebdcfee789cfbfcbbf8267d1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/1db7146fd91d87a081fcf1a43620274e.jpg

The rear corners up top are a little saggy too. I have to try and turn off my OCD and quit tripping over it......It's just gonna be a rider and not a chromed trailer queen.

Thanks

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fabiodriven

03-15-2017, 03:18 PM

Cosmic Quads... You were aiming on having this done before Trikefest right?

ironchop

03-15-2017, 03:41 PM

Cosmic Quads... You were aiming on having this done before Trikefest right?
Yeah but I had planned on sending it off 6 months ago when I got a quote from her on the foam. That didn't happen in time so I'm left doing it myself.

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keister

03-15-2017, 05:06 PM

I always fall into the trap of focusing on and pointing out all of the tiny imperfections on my builds too. Hard as it is, try to focus on the 95% that went right. Your work looks top notch. Can't wait to take a rip around Haspin with you on it.

Mr. Clean

03-15-2017, 05:40 PM

I think the cover and install looks great. You could always take some lacquer thinner and remove the ATC logo, get some white vinyl spray and have a template cut for a new logo.

83ATC185

03-16-2017, 08:02 AM

Yeah that doesn't look bad at all id run it all day !

How did you clock the petcock? Is there some easy way of doing that or is it more of a denial and error thing? Will it use the stock o ring?

ironchop

03-16-2017, 08:17 AM

Yeah that doesn't look bad at all id run it all day !

How did you clock the petcock? Is there some easy way of doing that or is it more of a denial and error thing? Will it use the stock o ring?

I power-tapped it close and then fine tuned by hand to get it right

It uses the stock o-ring. I made the flange an exact copy of the OEM unit for that reason

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knappyfeet

03-16-2017, 05:56 PM

I like how your seat came out.

You should see the abortion I performed on the old 350 cover.

Eric250R

03-18-2017, 03:06 AM

ironchop

03-18-2017, 10:40 AM

I only got a little done yesterday. This radiator grill frame was cracked as they sometimes are so I dropped some weld across the crack carefully. Ignore the ugly bead, as our Tig machine is in another building being used currently so I used the mig machine which is hard to get adjusted right when the crack was only 1/4 inch long.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/cf8c9686796378940993bacc7b55860e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/a06ec3cba8cb532a2ed6601f394194cf.jpg

Grind and grind some more....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/48b258579c984bc0714de56469466fc8.jpg

Ready for paint. More to come later. I couldn't inspect the frame for cracks until I got it completely stripped and we only have a blast cabinet at work that won't hold larger items so I bought a portable media blaster from Harbor Freight for $35 bux and I'm headed to Tractor Supply for some coal sand. Media blasting is not cheap around here as they want almost $100 to blast my frame. I need to reign in my spending a bit on this one so I may even paint my own frame pending quotes on materials and paint.

Jam out with your clam out.

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ironchop

03-18-2017, 11:18 AM

No I haven't seen your tank yet but I have seen Mr. Cleans work so I have no doubt It's top notch. And give yourself some credit, you're doing a great job, I really am looking forward to seeing the finished product. This thing was beat and left for dead when I found it so good job on keeping another one alive.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?t=179592

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Eric250R

03-18-2017, 02:57 PM

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?t=179592

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/4bf40e3bdaf33f5aa7d32b17e750af74.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/2726cc46ea24f901feaa0a368a4617dd.jpg

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:drool::beer

atc300r

03-19-2017, 12:36 PM

I had a couple cracks in my radiator brackets aswell fixed the same way.

ironchop

03-20-2017, 06:16 PM

Well the UPS guy showed up today and dropped off my birthday present from my wife. She's friggin awesome but that goes without saying.

Smells like teen spirit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/cc5a11408e186057ec49abbf0cd46af7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/4fa3acbc82ec29e5284ba1f4795bdadb.jpg

I got two weeks to top this when it's her birthday. Wish me luck.

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Mr. Clean

03-21-2017, 11:22 AM

AWESOME!!!! So glad to see another Kenny Roberts pipe being used on a build. Cannot wait for your ride report.

Well the UPS guy showed up today and dropped off my birthday present from my wife. She's friggin awesome but that goes without saying.

Smells like teen spirit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/cc5a11408e186057ec49abbf0cd46af7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/4fa3acbc82ec29e5284ba1f4795bdadb.jpg

I got two weeks to top this when it's her birthday. Wish me luck.

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ironchop

03-21-2017, 11:44 AM

AWESOME!!!! So glad to see another Kenny Roberts pipe being used on a build. Cannot wait for your ride report.
Yeah it's all your fault, Mike.

You used your powerful persuasion skills and talked me into running one on a relatively stock motor just to see what happens.

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Evan Hagenow

03-21-2017, 03:13 PM

Your going to have to shoot for the moon and then some to top that pipe. And your repair job on that swingarm is top notch, going to turn into a really cool build.

yaegerb

03-21-2017, 03:57 PM

Mr. Clean

03-21-2017, 04:35 PM

after you get it tuned of course :)

One year you will need to come to the Invasion and watch Kenny tune a 250r after installing one of his pipes. His words, "keep it simple".

Just did it at the Invasion in February, slapped the pipe on a stock motor, cleaned my stock carb, needle in the stock setup and 1.5 turns on the air fuel and rode it all week with no further adjustments. :beer

yaegerb

03-21-2017, 04:46 PM

Very impressive indeed. I have a couple more pipes in the works. The last set I will have him make will be :drool:

ironchop

03-23-2017, 10:47 AM

Ok I've been waiting on parts to come in so I was blasting what I have that needs it and painting stuff.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/5e5331bc4d4eb846b4233385452e94d5.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/e244ca2d955d16ac8e6d055f1f44c26d.jpg

I shot the rear hubs...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/85d7e3d801628e9098fc4cc704fdb7e6.jpg

So then, this came in the mail. $35 for an 86 TRX 250R front master with "leaky sight glass"... Normally, I'd keep looking but once I learned you could get new sight glasses for cheap ($10 shipped) I'd been waiting for an opportunity to try to replace one.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/c91b1d082b54defa48192289634f9d94.jpg

I dug out the old plastic, picked out the o-ring, and popped the outer ring out of the master.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/07fb07cc5fd52665f33746d195d83dce.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/e5f238f65124843b613de51e49d94d82.jpg

Once I got the remnants out, I started cleaning the window hole...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/0f4475234a079ad3e3e04c7bb8eb664f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/9c145a6c47b501e94d97047061decbeb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/39c9a6761107d8014d6bf0d1c89bcaed.jpg

I like my masters in natural aluminum finish so I dipped in acetone to clean the goo out and to lift the paint that the leaking brake fluid didn't already peel...

Scrub a dub dub my master in a tub

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/0a7e4dbb261a1cb7cb0c5798dfafc886.jpg

New sight window and oring....Also came with two extra lid screws for some reason

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/136131fe87a837b9d2d518c0ec237199.jpg

Cleaned all the corrosion out and it's like a whole new master. Dropped in the new o-ring. Took the sight glass and pressed it into the master using a .750 piece of round stock in our little arbor press.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/41b1904489aaf905973875c62117dcba.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/0bfdb8ae115fe824eaa80373c1f1ffd2.jpg

Booyah! Everything else guts-wise was in good shape but I'll be getting a rebuild kit anyway. The lever wasnt even floppy yet.

$35 shipped for master
$10.50 shipped for sight glass
$40 roughly for a rebuild kit

So I'll have a new master for a little over $85 and probably never have to touch it again for as long as I have the trike.

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newby200x

03-23-2017, 11:58 AM

I didn't realize they made new sight glasses...where did you find those?

ironchop

03-23-2017, 12:00 PM

I didn't realize they made new sight glasses...where did you find those?
eBay...

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Honda-atc-master-cylinder-sight-glass-and-screws-250r-200x-350x-trx-250r-450r-er-/232271132185?nav=SEARCH

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ironchop

03-25-2017, 03:48 PM

Ok so I took another chance.

eBay PJ34.....$42 shipped

I figured I'm already pressing my luck. I did buy a twenty dollar rear master that looked great but was a solid mass of F@#$ED inside so that was a washout but I'm trying to save pennies where I can when I'm buying stuff that's just gonna be immediately rebuilt by me anyway. I can't help it. If I buy something used, I'm compelled always to make it as new and functional as possible. Doesn't matter what the PO said or did or how nice it is, I still end up rebuilding it usually if it's going to be mine for awhile.

Anyway this is what $42 shipped looks like when it's dressed as a carburetor with three missing bowl screws, missing cable boot and adjuster, and one stripped and stuck float bowl screw....All of which I have new spares in my carb parts box in the garage so I'm set

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/90efad58cb694c5f86583c6896d25bb8.jpg

Now I've had nice carbs that were full of goo inside and I've had crap looking carbs be shiny and new inside. This one seems to have been recently used enough or drained good to prevent the varnish...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/3c92d0d367d3910932c4f8fd8ed5da34.jpg

Tore it all the way down. Bathed in acetone and scrubbed everywhere with an assortment of brass wirebrushes. Clean enough for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/5238b09d5ee676beded64e50647932ab.jpg.

Tossed a Shindy rebuild kit in it and replaced the missing hardware but didn't take a pic. It looks like a complete carb

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atcman77

04-02-2017, 09:39 AM

Have been watching your build and wanted to say great job so far Ironchop! Any updates on it?

ironchop

04-02-2017, 09:52 AM

Have been watching your build and wanted to say great job so far Ironchop! Any updates on it?
Thanks!

I finished rebuilding the front master on the coffee table so now I'm in the doghouse cuz the living room smells like brake fluid.

During the last week or so, I've just been collecting parts but I should have some more updates this week after I rehab the front caliper and front hub.

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newby200x

04-03-2017, 12:56 PM

Is it just me or has the 85/86 250r supply completely dried up in our region? I haven't seen anything worth the price tag in some time. Let alone feebay w/ their price gouged parts prices.

ironchop

04-03-2017, 01:07 PM

Is it just me or has the 85/86 250r supply completely dried up in our region? I haven't seen anything worth the price tag in some time. Let alone feebay w/ their price gouged parts prices.
Yes it has. I was thinking about this the other day. Tecates and Tri-Zs too. There used to be 4 or 5 250Rs up for sale any given week on CL within 250 miles of me but now it's zero. I frequently hit Indy, Bloomington, Louisville, Owensboro, Terre Haute, etc CL since I used to live in Indiana and drove a truck for Sears so I know my way around.

The only thing left is the same 3 or 4 ads I see put up for "WTB 250R, TECATE, TRI-Z, and ATC70" on any given week for the last 7 years so I suspect that's where a few of them are going before they ever hit the list.

Most stuff is overpriced now and eBay is getting tougher to find any good deals and I already buy most my stuff from Cali ppl who part out nice machines because if it's gonna cost me that much, I want a shiny West Coast part instead of East Coast rust belt stuff for same price

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newby200x

04-03-2017, 04:58 PM

Agreed...week after week it's just more disappointment in the Craigslist findings. I'm just glad I'm down to a few items left on my 250R before I consider it "complete". Excellent work so far on your machine... I'll be staying updated on this thread.

ironchop

04-04-2017, 09:58 AM

Found a good front rotor with very little wear for $20 shipped. Needs paint. I obliged.

I learned long ago that if you're masking something for the blast cabinet, you better have good tape so I mask rotors with duct tape for blasting and remask with good painters tape before painting...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/bb0b2fdb9ea480957c91fa8693dae2fe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/6d09a13ce5dabb768ddf3e233b223447.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/343c3205a45cbfe78662ee9d5655531d.jpg

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ironchop

04-04-2017, 10:00 AM

Got the radiator brackets painted too...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/b64fb1e3026c2d64722551cb2e14ff2a.jpg

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ironchop

04-04-2017, 10:07 AM

The front caliper came in. I think I paid $45 shipped for this one...

Covered in sand. One piston seized. It had some sort of ring on it. I'm not sure if brake fluid did that or what but it's a major point of stiction and must be changed.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/94edb3087a0a99cd9ee1425f6b17eb3c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/7ab8aaef6b954bfb98924e3e24a26de3.jpg

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ironchop

04-04-2017, 10:09 AM

While the piston is on order, I had time to blast off the old scratched paint and hit it with another coat of Cast Coat Iron.

Ready for new seals https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/6d57b7cad0901868fa0d3486412aeb83.jpg

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ironchop

04-05-2017, 01:13 PM

You win some, you lose one once in awhile. Was getting ready to mount the carrier in the swinger with the brake stay. Noticed I scratched the paint.....Hmmm that was too easy. Hit it with my thumb shovel and more scratched off easily to the primer layer which was stuck on good by itself. Must be a problem with the self-etching primer I used as the stuff I painted using different brand primer under same color is pretty tough. I'm guessing it's not compatible with that paint or some other issue. I didn't sand the primer coat before I shot the gold. I just washed with soap and water and ran a tack cloth over it.

No big deal. I'll just strip it off everything I had used that particular primer on......crap

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/40d2ad92015bfdff9dc598481cbecda5.jpg

Now I need new decals for my swinger. Sucks but had to be redone...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/557c19e7f5292012f1664da8c5056f57.jpg

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Red Rider

04-05-2017, 02:09 PM

Yeah it sucks having to do the same work twice. So far, it looks like you're going for an OEM color scheme. If so, the brake stay was not painted gold. Awesome work so far. Keep it up!

ironchop

04-05-2017, 02:16 PM

Yeah it sucks having to do the same work twice. So far, it looks like you're going for an OEM color scheme. If so, the brake stay was not painted gold. Awesome work so far. Keep it up!
What color should it be? Only ones I ever saw I person were chrome or anodized looking colors so I have nothing to go on.

It's not paint-code correct now, but you're right, I'm aiming for factory color scheme so I'd like to get it close. I think my rotor may be the wrong color but I like that shade of grey so I painted it that color.

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barnett468

04-05-2017, 05:22 PM

When I am doing a spray can detail and am not replating zinc coated parts but still want them to look new, I use Krylon 1401 Bright Silver and sometimes spray semi gloss or gloss clear Deft Lacquer for wood from Home Depot over them . The lacquer not only changes the appearance some, it also helps protect the paint so it tends to clean easier and last longer.

This is without clear.

http://www.skypirate.net/rocketry/images/2003/030509_03.jpg

ironchop

04-05-2017, 05:48 PM

yaegerb

04-05-2017, 11:45 PM

Red Rider

04-06-2017, 04:40 AM

What color should it be? Only ones I ever saw I person were chrome or anodized looking colors so I have nothing to go on.It was basically silver. Being steel, I assume it was zinc plated.

barnett468

04-06-2017, 07:37 AM

What color should it be? Only ones I ever saw I person were chrome or anodized looking colors so I have nothing to go on.

It's not paint-code correct now, but you're right, I'm aiming for factory color scheme so I'd like to get it close. I think my rotor may be the wrong color but I like that shade of grey so I painted it that color.

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silver/zinc as red rider thought as can be seen in this google photo . you can find the original color of most parts by doing a google search or looking on the site below.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1985-f-usa_model68/partslist/

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KeoAAOSwB09YSJgq/s-l1600.jpg

Here's an NOS zinc plated circlip.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yRMAAOSwv0tU9jxk/s-l1600.jpg

Here's the krylon I mentioned . If you spray Deft semi gloss clear lacquer over it, it will look virtually identical to the circlip above.

http://www.skypirate.net/rocketry/images/2003/030509_03.jpg

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

barnett468

04-06-2017, 07:47 AM

Thanks for the heads-up. I've used that Deft clear on woodworking projects before.

Oddly enough it is the same formula as automotive lacquer although the quality of the lacquer varies between mfg's . In California where I may or may not live, Home Depot does not carry lacquer paint any longer claiming it is because of Californias stringent air quality laws but they still carry "Wood Lacquer" and I can get lacquer spray paint from the local paint supplier. :wondering

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

ironchop

04-06-2017, 11:25 AM

Wow. More of that sound environmental logic applied selectively and in the most contradictory manner.

Maybe I should stock up on "wood" lacquer

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barnett468

04-06-2017, 11:39 AM

Wow. More of that sound environmental logic applied selectively and in the most contradictory manner.

Maybe I should stock up on "wood" lacquer

Yeah, the eco "logic" in California is friggen retarded . They used to check the amount of emissions from the tail pipes of all vehicles, but now if it is 2002 or newer, all they do is look to see if the emissions equipment is there and don't even check to see if it operates . Been to the emissions place 4 times with 4 different cars in the last 2 months. :wondering

Here's anther good one . If you live in Phoenix you have to get an emissions test on your car, however, if you live in Prescott and have the same car, you don't . They seem to think the air in both cities stays within the city boundaries. :rolleyes:

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

fabiodriven

04-06-2017, 11:53 AM

For whatever reason your picture of the lacquer didn't work again Barnett.

barnett468

04-06-2017, 12:22 PM

For whatever reason your picture of the lacquer didn't work again Barnett.

Thanks, but that's odd because it shows up in my posts on my screen.

ironchop, you can see the krylon sample I am posting 1/2 way down in the link below . If you click on the image it will enlarge it.

http://www.skypirate.net/rocketry/con_paint_03.htm

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

fabiodriven

04-06-2017, 12:25 PM

Actually it was the Krylon this time-

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/af14aebdc49249a22425aef13cef1a17.jpg

200x newby

04-17-2017, 03:05 PM

Patiently awaiting updates:w00t:

ironchop

04-24-2017, 12:37 PM

Well I've been @#$&ing off for the last couple weeks.

I went to install my Delrin swingarm bushings and noticed the frame tabs were jacked sideways some. I rigged up a couple jigs to check my lateral location relevant to motor mounts and used flaming persuasion to massage the frame tabs into place and space them the correct distance apart.

I didn't take many pics of this step. There was alot of beating and banging and cussing so I wasn't about to touch my phone for fear I would throw it in a fit of anger. Again.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/c9138a97a18976d4c8f6b5e37977faa8.jpg

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ironchop

04-24-2017, 12:40 PM

Parts keep trickling in as I find more incidentals that need replaced.

The front caliper pistons came in so I installed those and went ahead and completed the whole caliper so it's ready to bolt to the fork lower.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/ac666b1750e177bb758660ac0d347c34.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/b0189d13112b881425784dbf668bdd8a.jpg

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ironchop

04-24-2017, 12:42 PM

I did keep a couple things from the stock hardware that was still good but the pins needed a polish for sure.

Polished pin vs. not polished....

I used copper AntiSieze on the pin threads before I installed themhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/f301e46ae79cc291cbefc8b83b57c703.jpg

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ironchop

04-24-2017, 12:44 PM

Caliper finished and ready to bolt up...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/f29994741042a8f5d16a0204a954f77e.jpg

I'm going to add some features to my delrin bushings to eliminate the squeaks and update that soon.

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ironchop

11-07-2017, 10:32 AM

I've been tinkering on this the last few months but I'm terrible about documenting my progress......

So I split the cases after I bought a proper remover and splitter.

Everything was pretty clean and looked very low hour. Clutch basket wasn't notchy yet.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/e96e6b5124bb2c711e79f0786298a0ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/b0fcb1b00363fa77f616f6b9ee88b67f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/bc092ae8919176bc70baeb2244289521.jpg

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ironchop

11-07-2017, 10:36 AM

I got the cases stripped to see how many bearings I would have to replace.

This is where misplaced hardware goes inside your crankcase to die shredded into shrapnel.

You can even see where it worked past the crank tins to the outboard ends and then got caught in the bearing cage so that it could properly circulate through all the important stuff, trashing it as it goes....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/5c62dce873a9c765866ad883931553fe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/303be17f0e8de3e3b9cbbb00415bce4d.jpg

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ironchop

11-07-2017, 10:50 AM

After spending awhile checking the inner crankcase webbing for cracks or bulges that would prevent a good case seal, I used a small drum sander to knock the high spots down a bit. I didn't try to sand them all the way out as it's thin there already so I wanted to keep from removing too much. Just ran over the top no pressure.

Looks like it will seal just fine after I lap them a little.

Trans shaft and countershaft bearings were a little notchy so I bought new Honda OEM bearings.....Then after much pondering, I ended up buying every damn bearing in the lower end except the crank bearings I got from Hot Rod and the upper needle bearing for the clutch arm as it's the only one not available OEM. I did, however, get the number off it and ordered another from the NHK distributor who DID have that needle bearing in stock. I also bought all new seals although the original set I bought was SKF brand seals from Tusk. I ended up just buying all new OEM seals and gaskets from Babbits.

After installing all bearings in the case halves, the new countershaft bearing felt clicky so I must have gotten a piece of debris in it. Pulled it again, bought another and decided to get new OEM case dowels too.

Also, before the bearing pressing, I forgot to mention that I taped off the case halves, blasted them, and shot them with some duplicolor rattle can engine paint. (This is a rider, not a restoration)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/a2478466b697ceb7258e7603e5827049.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/d80caea0443de2b620082537d05e0e23.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/201a41aecdbfd0170698029ef843e975.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/40637a45072ad7e5f9c610c6c4a8dbb7.jpg

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ironchop

11-07-2017, 11:02 AM

I had received my replacement crank for the one they shipped last spring that had punched through it's box in transit. Second one showed up in good order. I started putting the cases back together after I had let the engine paint cure for a couple months. I'm not sure if that made any difference in how long it sticks but I'm not holding my breath. Just a rider.

The last pic of the crankcase halves bolted together is actually the SECOND time I torqued the halves together. The first time, I got done and flipped it over to the clutch side to start installing the shifter drum linkage and detent assembly and the kicker. Went I went to clock the shift drum to install that roller detent wheel assembly, the drum was locked solid and wouldn't shift. It had been about 5 minutes or less on the 3Bond gasket sealer so I cussed profusely as I pulled my case splitter back out to pop the cases again. Turns out I had two shifter forks in the wrong groove on the drum. STUPID mistake. Easy fix. Made sure it operated the forks good before I cleaned off all the 3Bond and started over on the reassembly. This time everything worked as it should. I'm setting this lower aside for now awaiting the two clutch basket bearings I forgot to order.

Next post will be my delrin swingarm bushing modifications.....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/d7c2048e9fda5ada4552b583e3905247.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/1e2928cb796074d0ba017907a0f96c48.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/1d00f112edf9cafcd679f3333a0f1a73.jpg

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yaegerb

11-07-2017, 11:24 AM

Looking good brotha!

atc300r

11-07-2017, 02:17 PM

Looking good. I put new alignment dowels in my cases now when I tear them apart. Still available from the dealer. Picked up new ones for my 300r air-fooler cylinder.I like your post on the caliper rebuild Im going to rebuild a bunch that I have.

ironchop

11-08-2017, 09:27 AM

While I'm waiting on some bearings, I decided to mess with my delrin swingarm bushings I got from BKM.

I had an earlier set from someone else on a 200X build and had some problems. Both were designed to be pressed into the swingarm and then just run the swinger bolt thru and tighten down but then you had some stiction and they would squeak if you got too much side load on those bushings as they're squeezed in between frame tabs. I decided to just copy the oem distance collars/spacer washers for the swingarm and ream out my bushings to fit some new units made from stainless.

I did do some hand-lapping to ensure the sleeves didn't bind any after installation.

No rocket science here. Easy job for a guy with a lathe or a guy with a lathe-having buddy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/ee1d0ddd115fd5dc1cd868425d948db9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/75b56a412cb7c37bd60fc0e8b06bac24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/bd6574085cb60806e35aaea34da1988e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/487deab1b03b3d6647d425e97dc8c8ac.jpg

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ironchop

11-12-2017, 11:15 AM

One new development and one thing I forgot to mention.

Forgotten thing: I bought a cheap media blast kit from HF for $35. Not a big investment but handy for the stuff that won't fit in the blast cabinet at work. I got 4 bags of black diamond coal slag from Tractor Supply for $6.99 a 50lb? sack.

So I took the frame and rig way off in the backyard with safety glasses AND a face shield and full clothing because this shat gets everywhere quick.

I had it all nice and blasted once and awaiting paint in the garage. My son left open the garage door all day during a thunderstorm while I was at work so the pic you see is from the SECOND time I blasted this frame after it flash rusted.

The two pics after is what I found when I was inspecting the bottom triple tree. I've never seen them crack there before. Those Eastern Kentuckians like to jump stuff off mountain tops I think. Haha.

My first reaction is to grind out and weld up those cracks but I'm concerned the welds will pull and twist those ends up and misalign the fork tubes or put them in a bind after assembly. I'm probably going to find a new lower tree. The top tree had no such cracks. One fork tube was bent pretty bad but the other was fine. I got forks on the way so I can make one good set.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/3e2b68d53b9ae9e3134b108fb107c940.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/7683d54d1e0d181ab37a4e1b1573237c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/0b504411800eed010dbda09090519117.jpg

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El Camexican

11-12-2017, 10:40 PM

Can't tell in the photos, but is it possible that overtighting the clamps caused the cracks?

ironchop

11-12-2017, 11:20 PM

Can't tell in the photos, but is it possible that overtighting the clamps caused the cracks?Maybe.

Those cracks are on the back side (radiator side) of the lower tree and only in the back webbing and about .375 long. I figured the webbing extends over to the stem boss. I suspect the forces pushing and pulling on those areas enough to crack probably came from jumps or hitting solid things alot. One fork leg has about a five degree bend in it so it hit something hard at least once.

Barnett probably knows what witchcraft is responsible for this specific kind of damage. Of course, he'll eventually say it's because Honda trees can't withstand the torsional forces needed to catch a Tecate, the world's fastest production three wheeler

I'm going to set it aside and weld it someday to see how much it twists just for fun. I'll remove the stem bolt to put in another set of machined trees for some USDs later on down the road.

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El Camexican

11-12-2017, 11:38 PM

Sounds like a hit did it. Amazingly the USD forks will stay straight as the trees bend, but that said none of my bent bike trees are cracked. Is your’s cast, or forged?

ironchop

11-12-2017, 11:46 PM

Sounds like a hit did it. Amazingly the USD forks will stay straight as the trees bend, but that said none of my bent bike trees are cracked. Is your’s cast, or forged?I'm fairly certain they are cast

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yaegerb

11-13-2017, 12:51 AM

They are cast, get a different set. That’s ghandi

barnett468

11-13-2017, 01:57 AM

Barnett probably knows what witchcraft is responsible for this specific kind of damage. Of course, he'll eventuslly say it's because Honda trees can't withstand the torsional forces needed to catch a Tecate, the world's fastest production three wheeler

Yup!

OMG...I think think it's finally tine to change my shorts.

...http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR:Bounce

ironchop

03-23-2018, 12:35 AM

Ok time to start back on this project.

Last couple of days progress....I ride like a madman sometimes and I can't count on two hands how many times I've had my rear fenders come unlatched and fly off on various ATCs. I modified my 200X latch to use cotter pins instead of the spring latch and I liked it enough to do the same on the R.....yeah you can buy these already made for maybe $40 but how about this one for just $10 and some spare time?....it doesn't need to be pretty. Function over form.

I ground off the old pins and the latch post. The plate had two cracks around the old latch so I cut out the bad spot and welded in a new piece of plate for better strength.

Next I turned some longer and bigger OD pins for a tighter fit in the rubber grommets on the frame. I hate floppy fenders. I made them with a flange to weld to the plate. Welded them in place and shot with some rattle can Honda Passion Red. I'll drill the cotter pin holes later when my mill is freed up so I can get them located exact.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/2a00475f248ac97775c213b86b9a6a51.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/66f1f2ced71e640671c3043c027e134e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/7a931aeeeb4fc125513c4c964a9130c9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/34cfa2c5936dec61f8189204fd8ec745.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/0262677a28f9b3b8a7e17fbebe5819f8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/8820457aeffca0a655286ca120d597d9.jpg

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ironchop

04-03-2018, 10:35 PM

Earlier this week...

I decided to repaint the lettering on my switch cover using oil based paint pens. I then shot some clear over it but I don't like how shiny it is. Oh well....I need this thing running by Trikefest so I'm not gonna be picky.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/0aabfadb685dbe9dc69bcb3a67aa1575.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/0f956da93908b62e41b544c5040c76ea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/33551ea7dd34808945baa534d1d6578a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/cbb08795bc6f6e67f97f28cb44d051ec.jpg

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ironchop

04-03-2018, 10:39 PM

Then tonight....

I gutted a new OEM Honda quad switch I scored for $35 and put the new switches in the old 250R casing. I did have to trim the corners of the run switch housing a little to fit in the 250R switch casing. Everything else including the metal retainer plate was a direct fit with no more modifications...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/c8c62d17a228fbea67a3cc84d73515e3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/fd1ca42b68049d3594a387b6408520e1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/14d6f028a71b132a02e76e30fe6c40e3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/848f7d9b92a03dd573184caf0602f425.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/aeec30ff959b870a488ee55e128f51d2.jpg

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ironchop

04-03-2018, 10:45 PM

After the switch fest, I was still feeling froggy and productive so I decided to install the counterbalancer I got back from rebuild at BDT Motorsports Monday. I figured I was on a roll so I installed the stator assembly, cover, and my new case saver and a new (but rusty from being on a shelf in the shed for three years) front sprocket. I decided to stop there and finish the right side of the motor tomorrow night....yes I know I'm missing a stator cover bolt and I left out the case saver lower bolt because I lost the first one and I need to chase the threads on the other before I install....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/1236018c2846e16a1ed205fffcadc968.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/cc9c9db5cb8a30e12bc25b196a16f68c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/f31247219eb1468fdaae76220c4ffa42.jpg

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Aulbaugh

04-04-2018, 01:00 AM

It's coming together nicley ironchop! Where did you get that sweet case saver?

ironchop

04-04-2018, 06:58 AM

It's coming together nicley ironchop! Where did you get that sweet case saver?Thanks!
BDT Motorsports.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F27 3111519574https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/6d92104814beb73bd860e7c3975826f1.jpg

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shortline10

04-04-2018, 11:51 AM

Looking good Doug

newby200x

04-04-2018, 12:23 PM

Did you end up splicing the wires retro-fitting the new switches into the old case? Or did you resolder the connections at the switches? Looking to do the same to mine in the near future.

Aulbaugh

04-04-2018, 12:31 PM

Thanks!
BDT Motorsports.

Thank you sir for the link and info. Did you get the swinger repainted yet?

ironchop

04-04-2018, 12:38 PM

Did you end up splicing the wires retro-fitting the new switches into the old case? Or did you resolder the connections at the switches? Looking to do the same to mine in the near future.I left the pigtail on the switches, cut off the starter button hot wire and the black wire where it teed into the others and pulled it out of the protective sleeve that contains all of them from the switch housing. The quad switches had same amount of wires left afterwards as the original 250R so I took pics of what colored wires went into which switches and I'll use that and the factory schematic for both machines to splice the pigtail into my 250R harness....with connectors for easy removal, of course. Most of the wire colors were the same but a couple were different

I might hit up ps2fixer Cory and see if he can get me the corresponding connector plugs to wire in and plug this switch into the new harness he built me.

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ironchop

04-04-2018, 12:44 PM

Thank you sir for the link and info. Did you get the swinger repainted yet?Yes and re-stickered. I'll shoot a pic tonight and post it

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Red Rider

04-05-2018, 12:18 AM

Nice attention to detail on everything so far, especially those switches!

atc300r

04-05-2018, 07:05 AM

Motor looks awsome .Cant wait to see it when you get it finished.

ironchop

04-07-2018, 05:08 PM

Snowing in southern Kentucky today....great day to get my tail out in the garage and work on the motor again

Assembled the clutch side of the cases. I used plenty of RedLine assembly lube. I feel like I didn't use enough if I don't get it all over the parts, my fingers, my phone, the table, and my tools. Messy stuff.

I continued with the plan to replace every damn bearing in this motor whether it needed it or not. This time I got new clutch hub bearings. Thankfully, I downloaded the PDF versions of the OEM Honda manual on my phone last year. I have a Clymer somewhere but nothing is as good as the OEM Service Manual hands down.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/f29ab790e288fb5d2e1b10af5cc2a1b2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/1262a4bbcca35cf58cfa08080b02520a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/f77bd8945b2c4ce6d36a5052993ce23d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/700f3df9d92e96875f317ea0a1ede913.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/1b1e5e9dfdcc1afd685a8b7ced617c07.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/2815cc9f6ce35c3efc23e0c201ca4588.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/43464d548166acb311ce07ba8d11efe7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/3e79ea7e5d94a4967405e0083e130588.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/216863393f66fd813ff6346049de8395.jpg

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ironchop

04-07-2018, 05:14 PM

Then moved on to finished the clutch assembly. So last year, I had heard about a "250R clutch upgrade kit" that's been offered by Honda for some time to make the clutch pull and action smoother by updating the hardware and pressure plate with (I think) the parts from the 88-89 TRX250R.

I'm going to use this upgrade kit...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/b7e7be0b211787a72fbff7d79a3b03c1.jpg
This is the old stuff the kit replaces...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/5a41f6ac686bb060feb34afa9d0b9ced.jpg
New stuff in bags next to the old push rod...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/fa4b0f8ea2b6ed1faa030b5739555db4.jpg
New on left, old on right...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/734f2f180273c30dbe456908fe313bb9.jpg
And done.....

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/42ad77ddc5f47b4d77fffae518a0f0e8.jpg

ironchop

04-08-2018, 12:05 AM

Thank you sir for the link and info. Did you get the swinger repainted yet?Here ya go...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/ede2271e56934c8e25a4309be212ad28.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/c5cfc104a3b0ce970b14616e7e7070d8.jpg

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Aulbaugh

04-08-2018, 12:58 AM

the redo turned out very nice!

ironchop

04-09-2018, 05:44 PM

Lunch break fun and a little experiment in saving money.

I considered buying a new billet exhaust spigot with the two o-rings or three o-rings but I'd like to put that $50 toward other things and it occurred to me that I could just add a groove to my OEM spigot and see if that'll help.

Made an arbor out of steel to hold the spigot and then turned a 3mm groove to the same depth as the original groove.

Now, off to order some o-ringshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/8fbc6c4838589f8f23e260388d865d1a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/d53d47dfc2f924a0f8c09b6e53aac428.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/b0ae930e0d3f1e1a47671ce31f1fc51c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/1c8d800df32b08dea62b95170e1ef837.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/acf9bd4a0f05b155ee0a0d57a9b61b06.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/8d95aba72f007712008cd2348f37b0c3.jpg

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yaegerb

04-09-2018, 06:36 PM

oldskool83

04-09-2018, 07:49 PM

It's more fun to say I designed and it works. Meanwhile the guys with 30 year newer toys don't know how to adjust their chain.

mollie8000

04-10-2018, 12:54 PM

great work see it at tf18

ironchop

04-10-2018, 01:13 PM

great work see it at tf18Hopefully. This thing eats more cash than a second mortgage.

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Kamnahrt

04-11-2018, 10:42 PM

Hopefully. This thing eats more cash than a second mortgage.

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I hear ya brother! This is really looking good man. I hope you dont mind if I steal your idea for the exhaust flange? Also for the clutch upgrade, I assume the base principal is the needle bearing thrust washer, do you by chance have a part number for that upgrade?

yaegerb

04-11-2018, 10:47 PM

Kamnahrt

04-11-2018, 10:53 PM

See post number 121 above, first picture

Im oblivious, dont mind me... Thank you sir

ironchop

04-11-2018, 10:56 PM

I hear ya brother! This is really looking good man. I hope you dont mind if I steal your idea for the exhaust flange? Also for the clutch upgrade, I assume the base principal is the needle bearing thrust washer, do you by chance have a part number for that upgrade?No problem... steal away.

Yes that's the difference. The parts come in a kit with pushrod, washer, that Torrington bearing, and a new pressure plate.

The part number for the kit is in the pic of that box at the top of that post

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83ATC185

04-12-2018, 08:16 AM

Those quick change part off tools are nice, if a little wide for a lot of things...Looking good!:beer

ironchop

04-12-2018, 09:12 AM

Those quick change part off tools are nice, if a little wide for a lot of things...Looking good!:beerIt's a groove tool just for making grooves. Part-off tools and inserts have an angled face so that the burr stays on the drop rather than the part you're making. Groove tools are square faced with slightly radiused corners.

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ironchop

04-15-2018, 10:45 PM

Tonight was aggravating. I tore this motor down a year ago and I'm usually really good about sorting and remembering where each bolt goes without labeling stuff in bags. There really isn't a whole lot of pieces to these things anyway.

When I run into trouble with which bolts go where, I just lookup the parts fiche on my fav online OEM parts retailer and get the dimensions and measure the bolts to match.

Somehow though, I managed to lose five or six different sized bolts on the motor. I lost the drain bolt at work while thinking about modding it with an imbedded magnet. I lost some small frame parts, one of which turned out to be stuck to the flywheel of a 200X motor I had on the bench too with the cover off. I moved the motor to a shelf and I guess the rezzy mount for the 250R had stuck to the magnetic flywheel. I did finally find it......AFTER I spent $30 effin' dollars on another used one from FeeBay. Grrrrrrrrr [emoji34][emoji34]

Edit to add: that oil fill cap is new too. The old one fell down and shot under the toolbox months ago and I looked forever and then gave up and bought another. Of course, I found it later as well behind the filing cabinet next to the roll around toolbox. Next time, I'll just throw my wallet back there. It's the same thing [emoji23]

I bet I've spent almost $150 on lost/incorrect hardware for this damn thing which isn't hard because it seems every OEM bolt costs $2.95 ea no matter how big or small.

The case dowels, I always replace with new if I can when they look corroded so I didn't count those with the above

I can't stand waiting for replacements for stuff I lost. I usually have a plastic container with dividers to keep all the stuff in order but it fell on the floor and I stumbled and stepped on it, crushing it under my size 13.5s never to divide or organize again. I'm about to rebuild a PreUnit Triumph motor after I finish this 250R, so I think I'll get a replacement organizer ASAP.

So I ALMOST got the whole bottom end wrapped up...except for seven different missing fasteners....all new water pump bearings/seals. The shaft and impeller were in good shape so were reused.

Time to order new bolts...againhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/a55ec3533d85329c334753ee32cec427.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/eddebe6be430c5ce50c43c94f3ff06ef.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/19fb33108187296db6ad029309495016.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/aa128edee7b56900662e4563f8bb24c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/c7f06c79870faaaf0d87a2ac7923f839.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/006b3964079e99b15b77c9c275d6df81.jpg

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ironchop

04-17-2018, 08:49 PM

Ok.....so while I'm waiting on a parts delivery, let's take the rear shock apart. I was going to send it out but I'm curious about what they look like inside sooooo.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/fcf09e217fa55672f0b845605c3c6608.jpgpulled the access cap to expose seal head cliphttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/72971aa7b6547c70c7f5ef7fdbe0e635.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/de898a8664b0ed352437682da5e378b3.jpgpulled cliphttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/e30e6afd19943f34b8239d5f3b331d98.jpg pulled shaft out of shock bodyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/42ad181244726cbc78b7e9fc8d0f3dc3.jpg what's this? Looks like an aftermarket valvehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/c3648db641585ad276348393b6346b03.jpgI see shim stackshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/85310f21b0b18c26652dd6c24139b925.jpg

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ironchop

04-17-2018, 08:57 PM

So then I pulled that emulator(?)(don't know what it's called) off the shaft being careful to keep all pieces in the order they were in....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/0d1c18569ba150640a3e84e255b2c2cf.jpgseal head has a clip in the backsidehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/d933dfca235cd855fc2afc0d8e952f4a.jpgpulled clip and started disassembling seal headhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/bd9944a987d07ebe8bd3d8d69e6cf57e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/4f33cb7cc9ecf0788a3c56bd23fe2f6c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/11332f3695737815cb6968ff538ceb06.jpg cleaned and half polished shock body. That's as far as I'm going on thathttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/469ea4984bd1f7ea36ad65350246f80d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/59823068ac8be607c1998aa23b8c66f5.jpg
I bead blasted all those rusty pieces in the post above and shot some rattle can silver on them to keep the rust off. I should have them replated, but I'm running out of time. The plater is swamped right now and those parts had deep pitting from rust so paint will do for now. I'm going to locate a shock with better parts to use later down the road.
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Kamnahrt

04-17-2018, 09:14 PM

ironchop

04-17-2018, 09:15 PM

That looks damn good man! I wasn't as smart as you when I took my last one apart, I went ahead and took the rebound adjustment screw out... That damn detent ball is a kick right in the pride trying to get it back in.

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Yeah I was wary of that part so I hadn't disassembled it yet. I'm glad you said something as I might skip that step to avoid extra aggravation
I'll probably build a second shock soon with a new emulator and built for my riding style and FATA$$. This one will be temporary and for practice

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Kamnahrt

04-17-2018, 09:26 PM

You probably are a better man than me, but with out the proper shim tool I personally won't tear another down that far. It was a rather blood pressure elevating expirence.

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ironchop

04-17-2018, 09:33 PM

You probably are a better man than me,....
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Thanks but no way. Im a total rookie at suspension stuff but I'm willing to learn the hard way. This shock was really rough looking so I wouldn't have been too upset if I destroyed it to learn something new

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ironchop

04-18-2018, 02:09 PM

Lunch break so let's tear the rezzy apart and see what's going on in here....

Let the nitro out of the Schrader valve first. Next, I tapped the rear cap inward to expose the clip. Pulled the clip out and then grabbed the cap by the Schrader with a sacrifial valve stem cap to protect the threads and pulled the bladder out.

I'm going to order a new bladder. Already ordered new seals for the seal head. I'll go and clean this rezzy really good and post up pics laterhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/0e5d0b50628325f90b0528793d2c0f31.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/8307aeb5766fc1cd2a4e334b0597ecd1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/0dd2476ab0179c6feaeaa823716e7b6c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/2c8888c68162c29851842717980727f9.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/1ac07703c6a2b90ac9daff1f069f47e4.jpg

ironchop

04-18-2018, 02:47 PM

Cleaned up ok. Still can see battle scars but it's still serviceable
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/7af1fd8e9949bedf96292788630ac87f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/3c49b569ee1c69d139e23b8aace99062.jpg

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ironchop

04-18-2018, 03:52 PM

Got online and found out you can also order the shaft bushing in the seal head too. Mine was about .008 bigger than the shaft outer diameter. That seems loose to me. The bushing is pressed against a shoulder in the seal head so the only way to remove is to heat the seal head ALOT and smack the head on a solid surface until the bushing falls out. Done.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/941c8df89dadbe79e8cfd8737990d59f.jpg

ironchop

04-21-2018, 04:10 PM

The seal head seals and new bumper came in. Still waiting on the new bladder and shaft bushing and shock oil to arrive so I can put it all back together.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/b549bfa229471984c4721a8cd4e1e115.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/132c38495604d3446d0dd0d0ada320ff.jpg

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ironchop

04-27-2018, 09:02 PM

Ok I rebuilt the seal head tonight and assembled the shock...well the lower half for now. Made a seal driver to press on the outer shaft seal out of delrin to keep from damaging it. Also pressed a new shaft bushing into the seal head so now everything is pretty much new inside the shock.

I took alot of pics to try and show each piece assembled in order in case anyone else wants to try this at home. I'm going to watch the Race Tech instructional videos in a minute on how to fill with oil and bleed. After I fill it, I'll shoot pics of the bladder install and then I'm sending it out to get a Nitro recharge.

I bought Race Tech's suggested shock oil for this model. Updates soon!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/9b332e47e8cfa325e0b0c20552399d6c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/1462a93bb1ee72515004e01ecb59d0ca.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/ce4f8597b10f6d9fd863a84d9bc4d939.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/59831762b2a48afa77dbc205eac2c98a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/9a7ebde636df7f75e7096c501e7e0011.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/7b388b8c66659333e9995fdcacc61441.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/83b21b3be15e276629404ed0fa52ddfb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/28af7e7ef3bc99e33f95998e97d0fa1e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/98a3bff55d3c867ccd8b052e17e5a8c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/3b121bc4db3424cccd6d9e073a6ca037.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/cb650c7975dcbc68f57e191e2e854fa7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/0a24314b522bed45c497c965e7db494b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/ffe6b0190c4690d178b39c07cb691b11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/3cbdf2c37cf0645617954963a8db5e06.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/f458ba0313bfc8d20b32ea37880d99c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/730d66491fd45fdb234971e76de2b0bc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/d2d6dfbe51904141c2710dd315428236.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/aa72fe9511b9f0b5933e03e43ea135c8.jpg

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El Camexican

04-27-2018, 10:56 PM

Go Doug Go!!!

ironchop

04-30-2018, 03:38 PM

The place I ordered my Pivot works linkage kit from emailed me today.....No in stock! No and then!

SO.....WTF IS IRONCHOP TO DO?.....HMMM. ....Hard to tell. He's cray-cray.

I'm either going poly, delrin, or maybe machine and harden new bushings. "Has this been done before?"

Probly so.

"Will this work with poly, UHMW, or Delrin?"

Probably so.

My Skyjacker shocks on my 79 F150 have poly shock eye bushings so if they can take a direct lickin', I'm willing to try.

Besides, I mic'ed my outer bushings and they are worn slick out as well as the inner bushes. Some are .008 out of round and I don't feel like crap shooting to try and get decent linkage that was always well lubricated for 32yrs.

I've lost my M@#$&*F#¢%ING mind.......

They did press out pretty easy

Dios mio!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/c865f6e6c2cf0e07fb01348a4d481708.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/0e334ab5c645be1e65a3be3918b40584.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/e64bc15791117e288327dc30a25e37f4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/49d26f40181f0b25ea316d367d501e27.jpg

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atctim

04-30-2018, 04:00 PM

awesome work - I love seeing things done this way with all the pictures.

ironchop

04-30-2018, 05:39 PM

First pair done and pressed.
I saved myself some time by making the Delrin Bushing ID smaller than OEM so I could turn down the old OEM inner bushing to remove the worn part. Now I can reuse it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/a1a2aba39c2ef9ea23069aa8c399f2ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/0e72bd5576f14d6e0713065efba15058.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/82003c3cc45ad842c404c6406f88aec8.jpg

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ironchop

05-01-2018, 05:49 PM

Round 2:

Dogbone bushings.

Normally I would make a two-piece set thats split exactly half the width of the bore with a flange on one end. The dogbone isn't very wide so I was afraid that the bushings would be too short to seat good and would either work their way out or spin in the bores. I decided to make one bushing the total width of the dogbone with a flange on one end and then make a ring to fill the other side counterbore with a tight press fit to help support the thin side of the long bushing sticking out to keep it from moving laterally. Pics probably explain it better than I can word it.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/ada2e94d25e17b733faa36d9e1aa9b16.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/905deee20cfac655018067ac296a3555.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/d6f935918266419078cac0d553d2b9fe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/ebda34227730e8d3925ca7de942727cb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/07880e764153daed1e88fbad50e6aaa2.jpg

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Red Rider

05-01-2018, 07:01 PM

Pics probably explain it better than I can word it...Nice work there chopper!

No, you worded it perfectly. I read what you wrote, and I formed a mental picture, based on your description. When I looked at the pics, it was exactly as I had envisioned it, except I saw it in black & white. :wondering

Cow Pie

05-01-2018, 07:08 PM

Wow! This is a whole new level of restoration. Hats off. Thanks for sharing. Dang but I love reading and seeing this stuff!

ironchop

05-01-2018, 07:53 PM

Wow! This is a whole new level of restoration. Hats off. Thanks for sharing. Dang but I love reading and seeing this stuff!Thanks, but I'm not really restoring it. That's a whole new level of skill and way out of my league and bank account. I would call it a more of a "radical rehabilitation" [emoji6]

I'm basically taking heavily used and abused parts and fixing all the issues so I can have a really reliable rider without building something too pretty to get covered in mud and dirt without freaking out. If I lived out west and rode dunes or desert, I would have gone all out with the bling and the correct OEM finishes and platings.

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ironchop

05-03-2018, 09:42 AM

Didn't get much done yesterday.

New stainless sleeves for the dogbone bushings. I'll need a set of stainless washers for these too where the old sealing washers used to be on the OEM setup. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180503/a9888290b6b685b13d8b10a116c04c7d.jpg

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HondaRidr

05-03-2018, 02:19 PM

It's looking great! I really dig the idea of those delrin bushing you made.

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ironchop

05-08-2018, 07:42 PM

Linkage is all done but the washers

I took way too many pics of this yoke but it's just so damn sexy I almost don't want to install it.

Rock out with your sock outhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/411e8ee52461bc0f27bc8b102ef51d3c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/5bf8fb4494849071506a253ac64c15e4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/1bdc7fdd0c690c74495951182f56e701.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/267825f2e926b97f4c8b3ff6fbeec897.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/55463122d1396317215a06f673bd0e17.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/fc743bc0feaa63dc4456d0f94f5d7e41.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/299597b2d696d81c1c864e742a1f2398.jpg

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ironchop

05-08-2018, 09:44 PM

I don`t know if i can allow you to run it in mud ..........you know where it belongs............lets see the assembly........facker !.............lets see how anal you are.......When I go out west, you better be there to meet me Rick. I been dreaming of Glamis since about 1979.

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yaegerb

05-08-2018, 11:49 PM

Red Rider

05-09-2018, 01:51 AM

Beautiful work on all of those linkage bushings. They look factory, which I can appreciate.

ironchop

05-15-2018, 11:34 AM

This post isn't really much of an exciting fabrication update regarding my work personally, but I wanted to tell y'all about my recent episode of getting the cylinder bored.

So Jeff at F.A.S.T. Racing (Farm and Sand Toys Racing) in Kansas rebored my jug. Yaegerb recommended him which is why I went that route. Turnaround was 9 days from the minute I dropped it at the post office until the minute it returned to my front door. $235 counting the shipping to and from for a 0.5mm bore job, hone, port chamfer, piston, rings, wristpin and clips. Not counting parts and shipping, that makes bore, hone, and chamfer $60 in labor. He said he would've been faster but he's buried in work at the moment. I had no complaints whatsoever with the turnaround time.

When you send it off and he unpacks it, he measures and then drafts you an estimate and emails you the estimate. He also called me and then texted me within five minutes of me missing that call. He wanted to confirm what I wanted done and see if I agree to have him start after I saw his estimate. He also asked if I needed a wristpin bearing or gasket set as well.

He called again a few days later after it was finished, plus another email invoice, plus a text (I can't hear my phone in the CNC Shop) to let me know the final price, which was exactly the same as his original estimate. I called him back with my card info a few minutes later and he texted back with my tracking number twenty minutes after that...... WOW! It was BOOM BOOM BOOM. No waiting or wondering....plus I got a sticker and a F.A.S.T. coozy thrown in the box free "to keep your beverages cold", he said. So then I put the sticker on my beer but it didn't keep it very cold and my coozy won't stick to the fender either...maybe I misunderstood him....just kidding[emoji23]

THIS IS HOW YOU RUN A BUSINESS AND COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS!

OUTSTANDING customer service and communication. I can't recommend him highly enough....For parts and service

https://farmandsandtoys.com/ocart2/services

I posted the old before pic since this thread is kinda old in case y'all don't remember the deep scores in my bore from the dropped in fastener thru the intake thing.

Also, I bead blasted the old black paint off the jug before it left for Jeff's shop so I wouldn't damage any of his work and I painted it with same Cast Coat Iron Duplicolor Ceramic engine paint I used on the motor when it returned so that the fresh paint didn't get scratched up getting bored in his shop(it's an 85 mill with 86 looking paint)

I'm going to check the ring end gap today before I install the jug. I have a new wrist pin bearing from my HotRods crank set I'll be using. Wiseco recommends a "minimum .004 per inch of bore"

So... 66.5mm/25.4 = 2.6181 inches
2.6181 x 0.004 = 0.0104 min gap

I'll probably give it an extra .001 max

I got my OEM CR250R head gasket from BDT yesterday and I already had a new base gasket ready to go. Head was blasted and repainted too and I got a new complete topend fastener kit with new copper washers awhile back. I'll be ready to drop on the topend, install the intake and then build a pressure tester to make sure everything is copacetic before I bolt this mill up in my frame.

Getting closer

Thanks for looking
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newby200x

05-15-2018, 12:01 PM

Thanks for informing us about this company...they have some very reasonable rates compared to other places I have seen.

fabiodriven

05-15-2018, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the fantastic shock internal pictures! I'm rebuilding my first shock right now and holy carp, it's a lot more than I bargained for!

ironchop

05-15-2018, 09:16 PM

Threw the rings in the bore, squared them with the piston to check gap. Looked for my feeler guages at work. Looked for my feeler guages at home. Went back to work to try and find any feeler guages. Went to the store to get new feeler guages.

Rings checked out good at .011 loose, 0.012 really tight.

Got home to install my jug on the lower end and found my old feeler guages in the socket drawer behind the torque wrench where they don't go. Oh well, I really wanted two sets anyway.

Popped out muh phone where I have the OEM Honda Service Manual downloaded... Turns out to be useful as F@#$ being mobile and in the palm of your hand instead of thumbing thru pages although now my cell is all greasy now

Tossed on my spigot and my intake assembly without the reeds until I get my pressure test done.

If it passes the pressure testing, then all the hard work is over and it's time to finish the shock, put new seals and bushes in the forks and assemble this mofo. Cross yer fingers.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/d29cf7f12a7d097b9cee7af27067e36e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/e04659a89d03e161f925349d5e421216.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/9a633c014e1c8abc3504ae0d1487235d.jpg

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yaegerb

05-15-2018, 10:01 PM

Very nice indeed. I assume you are putting in boyesen reeds? Does the drive sprocket still have life?

Red Rider

05-15-2018, 10:02 PM

Popped out muh phone where I have the OEM Honda Service Manual downloaded... Turns out to be useful as F@#$ being mobile and in the palm of your hand instead of thumbing thru pages although now my cell is all greasy nowChoose your poison. Greasy phone, which will wipe off, but may fly out of your hand, or greasy pages that are stained forever, and practically always obscuring important data.

yaegerb

05-15-2018, 10:09 PM

Or be OCD like me and put all your manual pages in plastic sleeves...but I still grease up my iPhone from time to time.

ironchop

05-15-2018, 10:13 PM

Very nice indeed. I assume you are putting in boyesen reeds? Does the drive sprocket still have life?Yeah I bought some boyesen reeds to stay on budget for now with plans for a better setup later. May even go rad valve or Vforce right after I pressure test. I'm not set in stone on that yet. I left the reeds out after reading instructions for pressure test after some searches. They said to leave reeds off the cage and put the piston at BDC before pumping up. Is this correct?

The sprocket is almost new. Was sitting in a bucket with the bolt and spring washer with some other stuff that must've got water on it at one point when stored in the shed three years ago so it surface rusted some. Looks worse than it is and I didn't see a reason to waste it since it'll be permanently dirty soon after break-in. I could blast and repaint it but I don't see the point

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ironchop

05-15-2018, 10:20 PM

My problem is that if I make this thing as shiny and new as I would like, I'll be furious at myself for getting it dirty. I went thru this with one of my 200Xs and I was riding around mud puddles on trails like a sissy until I just convinced myself to ride it like it's meant to be ridden. Garage queens do me no good since I don't like people in my garage therefore I won't show it off.

If I had a strictly dune bike, I'd go all out because that dry climate is WAY easier to clean but here in KY the red clay and the white clayment at TF just destroys a nice finish on everything in about 4hrs riding time

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yaegerb

05-15-2018, 10:22 PM

Yeah I bought some boyesen reeds to stay on budget for now with plans for a better setup later. May even go rad valve or Vforce right after I pressure test. I'm not set in stone on that yet. I left the reeds out after reading instructions for pressure test after some searches. They said to leave reeds off the cage and put the piston at BDC before pumping up. Is this correct?

The sprocket is almost new. Was sitting in a bucket with the bolt and spring washer with some other stuff that must've got water on it at one point when stored in the shed three years ago so it surface rusted some. Looks worse than it is and I didn't see a reason to waste it since it'll be permanently dirty soon after break-in. I could blast and repaint it but I don't see the point

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No you can pressure test with the reeds in and the piston at any point in the stroke.

wonderboy

05-16-2018, 09:33 AM

ironchop

05-16-2018, 09:41 AM

What head gasket brand are you using for this?

I have a cometic and I can't get the coolant to stop weeping from a couple points. The head is dead flat. I can't do anything to the top of the cylinder without pulling the studs, and don't want to open a can of worms so I'm hoping a different head gasket can help.

I've read that the cometic head gasket has too hard/firm of a ring around the cylinder and it doesn't compress enough when torquing the head to compress the rubber part of the gasket to seal the coolant.It's an OEM CR250R head gasket. Single layer. "Thin" style

Got it from BDT....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/8f0da1845140ba1e70cee36b03fb7769.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/a09ce20beb39e2abebe5c0e4a05fd209.jpg

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ironchop

05-16-2018, 09:45 AM

Choose your poison. Greasy phone, which will wipe off, but may fly out of your hand, or greasy pages that are stained forever, and practically always obscuring important data.I pick greasy phone.

Plus this ZTE phone was only $80 more than a used OEM paper manual from eBay and I cant text, browse, or call from my manual haha

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wonderboy

05-16-2018, 11:57 AM

Now I feel stupid... knowing that you got an OEM gasket, I searched and see that the 250R OEM gasket is also available. I'm sorry if I missed it, but is there a reason you are using the CR250 gasket? <--(EDIT: No need to answer that stupid question... I can't read).

Is the thinner gasket part of your plan to bump compression a bit higher?

Also, do the OEM gaskets accommodate bored cylinders? The one I'm working on is bored at least the first oversize (don't remember exactly).

ironchop

05-16-2018, 12:03 PM

....
Is the thinner gasket part of your plan to bump compression a bit higher?.

Yes

..Also, do the OEM gaskets accommodate bored cylinders? The one I'm working on is bored at least the first oversize (don't remember exactly)....

This one did and my overbore is at 66.50mm from a 66.00mm stock size but much bigger than that and it might be an issue

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ironchop

06-02-2018, 05:11 PM

Well my gas pressure test guage with Schrader valved adapter finally got here today. 2 1/2 weeks from purchase. Pretty slow for eBay.

I had bought and assembled the PVC portion a couple weeks ago. I used a rubber cap that yeagerB turned me onto instead of a plug in the exhaust port.

He also warned me that even with sealant, the exhaust gasket is likely to leak air and F@#K with my pressure test attempt. I didn't listen very well and after an hour of correcting all the leaks in my rig, I still had bubbles at the exhaust spigot joint. Cheapass Vesrah exhaust gasket was the culprit. I texted Brendon to admit defeat. I used it in a pinch. Fortunately, I had ordered a hi-temp o-ring set from BDT a couple weeks ago. It came with one new hi-temp o-ring, one "spare o-ring", and a leaded looking exhaust spigot gasket all for just $13 shipped. Now you'll recall I machined a second groove in my OEM spigot so getting an extra o-ring in this kit was exactly what I needed....I popped that gasket in dry just to see how well it sealed. I figured on taking it back out to throw some sealant on there but since it looked like it was lead permeated or something similar, I was curious.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F27 3239891641

Well......I pumped it up to seven psi and it held that for ten minutes with zero loss. What a great gasket!

So my first 2-stroke total rebuild was a success. My OCD paid off with no measurable air leaks and this makes me much more confident in my work.

Before I put the motor in the frame, the stator wiring came to me on the motor with the plug cut off. I found another 2.8mm 2-pin plug for a few bucks on eBay and soldered on the new female connectors and then snapped then into the male housing. Good to go. Simple and cheap fix. Fits like a glove into the corresponding connector on this new ps2fixer wiring harness.

Now I've started the final assembly just a bit early but I still need to finish refilling my rear shock this weekend and tear down the forks for new seals and bushings.

Special thanks to Yaeger Performance Machines for the phone support and walking me through this.

Stay tuned for more of my adventure to come. I feel far less ignorant than when I started.
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yaegerb

06-02-2018, 10:33 PM

Looks awesome brother. You did an outstanding job!

ironchop

06-03-2018, 10:34 AM

I like to chronicle my screwups as equally as my successes. Everyone makes a mistake or two the first time around and maybe it will help someone else who's afraid to crack into a major project for fear of jacking it all up. The only way to learn is to try...and find some relevant YouTube videos if you can. Granted, some people shouldn't touch tools at all and some people are just OCD and patient enough to do things correctly the very first time. I'm in the middle somewhere but leaning more toward OCD moreso than hack HAHA!

This next episode will resonate with some guys and be cringeworthy for others.

Filled up the rear shock with oil last night after the engine work. I felt like I was on a roll......Next time, I'll probably skip the $25/quart shock fluid on a shock that's not totally worked over and revalved. A quart of ATF as suggested by Honda would've been much cheaper. I bought this without even looking at the rear shock section of the OEM manual. There's a lesson. READ MANUAL BEFORE TOUCHING WALLET.

The o-ring between the reservoir and the reservoir hose is supposedly discontinued for the ATC. Usually, Babbitt's does a good job cross referencing the part with other models but they dropped the ball here. The o-ring is an odd sounding size...9.8mm x 1.9mm...however, I was able to find them OEM Honda for other models on eBay so I bought three to stash a couple away for future shock builds.

I filled the shock body with oil, filled the rezzy hose with oil, installed new o-ring, and bolted them all together. I turned the reservoir open end up in the vise and filled it halfway with oil and started pumping out the air bubbles.

So I get the air out pretty quick and it seems like everything went way too easy. I texted Fabio to ask how many times he had to pump his shock to purge the air because I had a nagging feeling that it was way too easy. So Fabs offers some comedy relief and I go ahead and pull the Schrader valve out of the rezzy end cap and installed the brand new shock bladder on the cap. I push in the whole assembly and the excess oil goes everywhere as planned...you can't avoid it if you're doing it correctly. I get the cap below the snap ring groove in the rezzy, install the snap ring, and use my valve stem puller tool to pull the cap back up against the snap ring. Then I screw in a new Schrader valve core that came with the seal kit from Schmidty.

So at this point I'm feeling all full of myself despite that nagging feeling lurking in my gut.....and then I look at the pile of old seals and Schrader valve and whatnot on the work bench and something out of place catches my eye......a random washer. "WTF is that from?" "I don't remember any washers in this assembly".....and then I did remember the washer. The rezzy side of the hose screws in 95% of the way into the rezzy and there's a lock nut on there that actually tightens it onto the reservoir and seals that o-ring. This washer goes between the locknut and the o-ring. I text Fabio again to say "I told you I forgot something"...laced an expletive in there and laid my shock oil covered cellphone in a dry part of the bench and walked away. After a peanut butter sammich and some meditation over a Bud Light Orange beer, I tore it back apart and spilled shock oil all over my garage floor and workbench...again.

The OEM manual is vague on this part because they wrongfully assumed people won't forget the washer. I'm exhibit A for the prosecution in this case.

I got it back together correctly the second time. Since I smashed that new o-ring with the locknut and no flat washer in between, it was roached after loosening the nut. Good thing I bought those spares.

Now it's ready for a nitro charge and reinstall the spring which I think I'm going to buy a heavier spring. The OEM offering is for riders much lighter than my 220lb self so I'll probably hit up Schmidty Racing for a new spring designed for my size.

Today, I'll attempt to not hack the fork rebuild, I think [emoji23][emoji23]... Off to read the fork section of the manual FIRST.

I didn't take too many pics. It was a messy process so I tried not to touch the phone much outside of cursing text messages to Fabioso McMasshole. Enjoy.

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Yeah, I did all that and then noticed this....MOTHERF@#KER!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180603/c3e1da24085961459394e33e964c8f83.jpg

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El Camexican

06-03-2018, 10:43 AM

:lol:I swear I’m laughing with you and not at you, but only because I’ve found a “spare” piston pin circlip after finishing a rebuild and doing the first heat cycle. It sucks donkey junk when reality sinks in.

Red Rider

06-03-2018, 05:58 PM

Don't sweat it chop. We've all been there. My moment was when I first split the cases on a 250R.

About 25 years ago, on a day trip to Dumont Dunes, while riding inside the big bowl, my brother's 250R threw a chain (no case saver), which of course wadded up, and busted the L center case at the clutch actuator arm. Unable to get the chain un-wadded, we tried towing him out of the bowl with two 250R's, which didn't work. We had seen some guy going pretty much everywhere in his early 80's lifted Toyota 4x4, with aired down tires, so we enlisted his help. It was a harrowing ride out of the big bowl, with my brother, his R, & I in the bed of this stranger's truck. My brother & I made up a plan of action, as far as which side to bail out of, if the truck were to flip over, but luckily we didn't need it. Fast forward a few months, and our annual trip to Dumont for Thanksgiving is approaching, and my brother's R is still down for the count, with no spare time to fix it. I offer to do the work, confident I can successfully tackle the job. I find a used set of matched cases, and swap the internals over. The re-assembly goes smooth, and I'm pretty damn proud of myself. A few days later, my brother comes by to check it out. He shifts the transmission through all six gears, and neutral too, with no issues. Then he picks up the old L center case, so he can inspect the carnage from the inside, and out falls an oily washer, that was still stuck to it's machined, mating surface. Needless to say, he was now wondering what else I screwed up.

It's a gut-wrenching feeling, when you go from the elation of tackling a difficult job, to the realization that you did it wrong.

ironchop

06-09-2018, 06:40 PM

Rear master rehab and rebuild.

Looked like a mess when I got it.

Blast, thoroughly cleaned the insides, repaint, and put a new K&L rebuild kit in there but reused the OEM metal piston and OEM boot as they were both in great condition. Just used the new seals and return spring
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/6cfa3a255807c0a98ce56919692a7813.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/d0b5bc9ab4bfa17130798ce6ba45ca19.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/f5bb793e4bce6f3f35395963d2142bc8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/07a6cd108deeee6287cf7a7b4fbaee9a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/de740605bb9832345dff395781e51846.jpg

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ironchop

07-06-2018, 01:35 PM

After numerous phone calls answered by machines and a number of emails that all went unanswered, I decided to start showing up at these local Stealership "Service Department(s)" and ask these people face-to-face where I could get a shock recharged with Nitrogen.

At our local Honda/Yamaha dealership, I was told "I've never heard of recharging a shock"...."but I did just start working here a month ago" from the 50-something gentleman running the service/parts counter

At Polaris..... Where there were at least fourteen UTVs in various stages of disassembly, and where anything more complicated than a spark plug change or tire patch is referred out, I was told "yeah we don't do shocks... You need a 'shock place' for that"

I then started calling a couple old TRX250R junkies I know who directed me to an indy shop just south of my house in another county "where the flat-bill hat wearin serious racers go".

It's called JPMX and it's definitely a much more serious operation than the licensed franchise Stealerships in Bowling Green. The place had new and used race stuff on shelves inside. No bling. No utility quad accessories. No apparel. No bull.

The owner filled my shock with Nitrogen for ten dollars....... TEN DOLLARS. I gave him an extra fiver for a six pack because he saved me from almost sending off my shock for a refill which would have been dramatically more expensive than ten dollars.

So a week later, my neighbor from seven doors down stops by our shop to get another mad scientist part made for his drag quads. I think he's a college professor for a day job and builds and races, drag, rodeo, and GNCC quads in his basement on nights and weekends. Great guy. He thinks I'm nuts because I build and ride the stuff he's afraid of but we still get along nevertheless.

So I tell Mark about my Nitro refill adventure and he says "You should've come down to my house and I would have refilled it for free. I got tired of trying to find a shop nearby to do the rebuild and refills, so I bought all the equipment to rebuild my own shocks a few years ago."

Good to know if I need it again. I still am glad to help out the indy shop owner though, so I'll probably keep throwing my money at JPMX just for support's sake.

My point is that these local Stealerships should be ashamed (but they're not).

They aren't interested in servicing anything they sell anymore. They are only interested in selling bastardized backwards three wheel street bikes and off road side-by-sides. No parts or support for local racers (and this is the home of Bill Balance). No real functioning "service department". No staff who actually know anything about these machines other than reading specs off the pamphlet.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENT SHOPS

Meanwhile, I'm tired of looking at the rusty steel retainers for my rubber grommets that mount my radiators, so I started making some stainless replacements...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180706/3215c11bb0f335cc5ea8cc04bdef6307.jpg

Next, I'll be mounting the rads. Then I've decided to drop off this OEM axle to the local plater for some yellow zinc. Then it's a matter of wrapping up the final assembly. I still need new rear fenders though. Yes, that workbench is a mess and needs cleaned but I've got stuff going on in the other two benches currently so this one got a little neglected.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180706/09b686ca4ed0bc7741aaaa803c3599b6.jpg
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atc007

07-06-2018, 01:55 PM

I guess there really is no way to say this without sounding cocky, arrogant,whatever. As to your experiences at "dealerships". I started venturing out into the real world 97 or so. To say that I was bewildered, horrified,saddened,and just generaly ,absolutely speechless, at the lack of ANY mechanical knowledge whatsoever in these gigantic bank owned and run palaces would be an understatement. THIS is where people that can't do for themselves,must go!?? $85- $120 an hour,for kids that I would never let touch my bikes. Sorry,,struck a cord lol. LOVE ,love,love this thread. Love your work. Thanx for sharing.

El Camexican

07-06-2018, 02:55 PM

ironchop

07-06-2018, 10:04 PM

Here's a funny story and an update.

Those stainless washers I made in the post above? Well I had dashed into the garage this morning before work to get the OEM one for a pattern. Somewhere in that messy workbench were those grommet washers and also one washer for the front fender grommets. I grabbed the one for the front fender by accident, got to work and promptly made 8 of them during lunch. So it looks like I've got new stainless front fender hardware instead of radiator hardware because the fender grommet washer is much shorter than the rad grommet washer and won't work there. See pic.

I should clean my effin work area ASAP. I'll make the correct rad hardware next week.

Before all that happened, I did get the front forks sorted out for the most part.

It took the set of forks that came with the roller originally plus another set I had bought off eBay to make a good full set.. I bought the eBay set because the original forks had a bent tube on the left fork so when the eBay set came up, they looked really clean in the pics but one of them had a stick at about 75% compressed. I thought the tube was bent in that one but it turned out the tube was straight. It was the aluminum lower that was bent just slightly right in the middle toward the outside. I couldn't get a good pic of that because it's hard enough to see with the naked eye let alone mess with camera lighting settings trying to get a pic.... There was no external visible dent in the lower but when you looked inside, you could see where the inner wall had an area that was pushed inward and that's where the bushing on the lower end of the fork tube was sticking hard enough to get stuck. The other tube was slightly bent when I inspected it. It wasn't much, about 0.100 total indicated run-out so that's a 0.05 bend

The nice looking eBay set for $225 shipped had as many problems as the original beat up set

I go back to my original set of forks that has a good lower to replace the eBay lower, plus has one perfectly straight tube. I match that with my eBay set with another perfectly straight tube.

Those giant snap rings that hold the lower seal in, can both just go and F@#K themselves already. I had to fight to remove four of them. I need better snap ring pliers

I cleaned all the components and very lightly sanded out the dings on the lowers. I lightly buffed them with a product we use at work for deburring on the bench grinder. It's a very light abrasive in a hard open cell fiber wheel. You can polish aluminum and stainless and lots of other metals pretty good with these Norton wheels too. I'll throw a pic below. I polish and deburr all kinds of stuff at the machine shop with these and it's equally beneficial for those home shop guys.

I also polished out the scratches on the fork tubes with the Norton wheel successfully. The lowers are semi-polished because I like satin finish

So here's my complete set. I'm awaiting Progressive springs and some fluid but they have new bushings, inner seals, and wiper seals, all 4 new copper sealing washers and lower damper rod bolts (those Allen head bazturds)... Went and bought OEM boots. I've modded the damper tubes inside the forks from an idea I got somewhere over the years that involves moving a hole and deleting another. More info on that down the road (if it works... If it doesn't, I do have backup plan dampers that will also be modded)

Anyway I also wanted some Showa love on the lowers because I found these decals online once and wanted an excuse to buy them because they looked cool. They were a pain in the ass to install because they stuck to the backing paper better than the facing tape. Took awhile to separate the backing paper and stick them.

So I'm waiting on springs and fork fluid before I put them in the trees.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/9f647659d60e7229861eadc90f3a4191.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/bf572d06831acae4550bd8edb69fdf50.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/5a94671ebc5488cc5d27f680597f3b02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/a962107c26b00c8684665ecdcd495061.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/795bf4a7c392be6466c63aa2eca29ad1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/1c875cd5dd7193949eeae3d4b4db9df0.jpg

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yaegerb

07-08-2018, 12:21 AM

looking good man. You are in the home stretch.

ironchop

10-04-2018, 12:59 PM

I haven't done much other than some mock-up assembly to make sure everything fits together correctly before I tighten it all down.

My rear axle is at the platers getting a replate.

I did get a rear spring powder coated so I could FINALLY assemble the shock completely, set the spring length and put it in the frame.

I also got a repro front brake cable guide from a seller on eBay called 'soilmec'. Good quality repro, for sure. It was fifty six bucks shipped but for the kind of fab work and the zinc plating that goes into each piece, I say it's worth the price for a quality made hard to find item.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F22 3174504363

I'll take pics of it on the tree eventually but to be honest, the pics in the eBay ad are highly accurate and just as good as anything I could take with my camera so I'll post a link and pic from there

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/ac6f73d2d862776915c29aff69327b77.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/da5c6515bfbccfc087a70f27d829c808.jpg

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Aulbaugh

10-04-2018, 02:23 PM

I was wondering how things were coming along. I've bought from soilmec, I like his products. He also does repop 250r handle bars.

ironchop

10-04-2018, 07:36 PM

Don't you love it when your momentum is good and you're making progress and then suddenly you hit a wall?

I bought a set of eBay forks that ended up having a sticking spot in them to replace my bent original set. I found the problem a few months after they arrived as I only looked at the general overall condition and when I operated them, you couldn't feel the sticking point until I took out the springs. That's when I discovered one of the lowers had a dent in the side that wasn't visible from the outside but you could see it easily in the inside.

I took the lowers off my "'86" eBay forks and swapped it with the corresponding lower from my original "86" bent set. The eBay set had two pc springs which was my first clue that they might have been incorrectly listed. My original bent set had one single spring in one side and the two pc spring in the other side. What a mess.

I already had put a new bushing and seals in the lower that ended up being dented before I discovered the problem. Then I went and put a second set of new OEM seals and bushings in the second lower I assembled and semi polished. There goes $50 bucks worth of OEM parts that I can't remove and reuse without damaging them.

I didn't find out until now that they must not be interchangeable between 85 and 86 because my lower brake cable guide wouldn't line up with it's mounting hole on the fork lower that is on my trike right now. I tried the guide on the old dented lower and it fit just fine. That's when I measured the caliper bracket holes and the axle holes between the two different lowers I have. They axle hole to fork lower centerline is about 0.225 in difference between the two. The caliper mounting holes are also shifted back between one lower and the other.

When I put the axle in and clamp it down, it's definitely not square with the axle tubes. It still clamps up because the forks can turn to accommodate the weird angle from the difference in axle location.

So now I'm REALLY angry and probably won't mess with this thing for a few weeks until I can get this mess sorted out, more parts aquired, and get calmed the f*ck down.

I have to wrestle those clips again

So now:
1) I don't know what year of lower brake guide I have.
2) I don't know what year of fork lower I need to go with the guide I have so I don't have to buy another guide on top of all the other parts
3) I don't even know if they are both 250R forks? The part numbers got mostly removed during the semi polishing process
4) I've learned that there are ALOT more subtle differences between 85 and 86 than I realized
5) now I don't know if my caliper bracket is correct or interchanges between the two years

I'm waiting on a rear axle and the fenders before I can finish final assembly.... That's it.... and then I'm riding it....but NOOOOOOO...ROADBLOCK

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Do I have to find a complete frontend with brakes and everything so that they with together correctly or what? I need help.

[emoji35]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/63e19a58edaa85559e208fd0bf865fd3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/aab9aed641abe7935b70bac5d299949c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/d8ddbd529b90087d32926df1b6453588.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/dc5dece62e3bc8b332d566b71f8e3661.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/282d6ce5368fd87da621a6f1e4f1d3cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/e1cfbbe7f9579887b976feee4bab1c01.jpg

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ironchop

10-04-2018, 10:45 PM

More detail on the fork differences

Notice how the caliper bosses and axle boss are different distances from the tube centerline. The webbing is also noticeably different.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/6085baa4ff0580e2dfbee6e19583367c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/4870bd7ae2df6f8c1e8e69a7a9a3c9a0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/5fa975ddb66b922d81cc66a5a8d5f15d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/3e84211bbcf2025887b1be761bc1f8e2.jpg

Look closely at these next two pics. It looks like he may have the sets mixed up (listed by same seller). Look closely at the axle clamp side. The one further away from tube centerline is paired with the one which has the axle thread boss and caliper bracket bosses CLOSER to the tube centerline or am I drunk?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/e1965a3ad3b4a4f3404ef9c40e9493b2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/5ac1f2c434429d476ec094e57ae73677.jpg

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wonderboy

10-05-2018, 07:22 AM

I think you nailed it. I think the guy mixed the two sets up! I agree it looks like the spacings are miss-matched.

Aulbaugh

10-18-2018, 12:26 AM

What's the update on the fork situation?

ironchop

10-18-2018, 11:18 AM

What's the update on the fork situation?Still mad at it and I curse it when I walk past it in my garage

I'm still looking for an 86 left lower and I'm also looking into running USDs instead. Just haven't made up my mind

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Aulbaugh

10-19-2018, 05:48 PM

what do you need/have to run the USDs

ironchop

10-19-2018, 09:06 PM

what do you need/have to run the USDs I actually got a line on the 86 fork stuff I need from another member here just this morning. Hoping to close the deal soon.

I didn't have any USD stuff yet

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ATCKevin

10-19-2018, 09:50 PM

I have to admit, this has got to be one of the coolest and informative build threads I have ever read. I just spent an hour reading all 14 pages! Nice job on this trike Ironchop, I am envious of your skills!

ironchop

01-26-2019, 04:51 PM

Alright..... Back on this project.....

Here's another example of the differences in 85 and 86 R forks in the first pic. That's the bottom end of the damper rods. I have no idea which one is what year. Maybe someone will chime in.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/e7ba880fe8ef175a58fe0999be2ee713.jpg

The next pic is those sweet Duros I bought and was going to run if only I hadn't got ahead of myself and ordered the wrong wheel diameter. Nice 10" tires nonetheless but unless I want to buy new wheels, I think I might just sell these to my son for his Tecate

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/bffb13234e254f233f696c8fbe51eb12.jpg

So I decided to get a set of new radial Ohtsu M/R 501s like off the second gen TRX250R because I liked running them on quads. They slide sideways really nice and have good straight line traction.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/d728c7eede4afb79ec943cab2bcc0711.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/6adfbc7f2f9bc34f9673c9313dd151b2.jpg

I had ordered new valve stems too, so I guess we can say that I rebuilt my wheels too.. HAHA... Leave no single part unrebuilt!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/481bfd66d5ab249b3662878e14be61a5.jpg

Also ready to exchange my left fork lower that I got donated from the awesome and totally radical Mr Queef Chief.

Back with progress pics later

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You

Aulbaugh

01-29-2019, 03:30 PM

Glad to see you back at it! Hope your feeling better.

morgan

01-29-2019, 03:55 PM

Where did you get your zinc replating done at?

ironchop

01-29-2019, 08:18 PM

Where did you get your zinc replating done at?I didn't plate anything yet. The swingarm pro link linkage is painted with silver enamel instead of replating that part after I blasted it. Any shiny new zinc you see in the pics is just because they are brand new parts. I'm trying to avoid having too much bling because it will just look like crap after I ride the heck out of it for a couple months.

There's a local shop here in BG that does nickle and chrome plating called Brite Metals but I'm not sure if they do zinc.

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morgan

01-29-2019, 09:11 PM

Ok I see, i saw in a earlier page about sending the axle out to be coated. I’ll check into them to get some pricing thanks. Sorry to veer off subject, great thread btw!

ironchop

01-29-2019, 09:54 PM

Ok I see, i saw in a earlier page about sending the axle out to be coated. I’ll check into them to get some pricing thanks. Sorry to veer off subject, great thread btw!Oh...yeah... I am indeed having the axle and the brake stay nickel plated instead of zinc and Brite Metals was who I talked to about doing the work, but the parts didn't get dropped off yet, so you really didn't veer off subject, no worries.

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ironchop

02-03-2019, 11:22 PM

Well, it was 65 in Kentucky today so I got out in the garage long enough to finally fix my mismatched lower fork leg issue.

I didn't take pics of the entire process because I have seal/bushing changes in third gen R forks mastered and can rebuild a pair in 20 minutes flat

I got an 86 fork set donated by a member here semi local to me that I took home and pulled the left lower apart and did a light sand/buff job on.

The lower on the right is a true '86 and the lower on the left is '85

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190204/6ba9f58a6c37a748e48dde4e7f03b659.jpg

I had bought another set of decals to put on the new lower until I noticed that this set of decals was gloss black instead of satin black like the original set. Now I had to scrape the decal off the other lower as well and replace it with a gloss black one. I got one decal applied a little lower than the other because I wasn't paying attention enough but screw it, this is supposed to be a rider and not a show bike anyway. Saves me from buying another $4 decal.

New lower, new decals, back in the triples.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190204/4706d2011ff23e18f6c95518d005e447.jpg

Tires are mounted on the wheels.

I need my axle plated, buy a new chain, get a rear grab bar (which I might make myself), buy misc bolts, airbox support ring, and buy front/rear fender set. I currently am just running a number plate but I have plans to get an LED headlight adapted to the headlight shroud. Then final assembly.... That's all that's left to do before we fire it up and start doing heat cycles.

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ironchop

03-17-2019, 10:57 AM

Check out my nut sack.....

257761

This is our busy season at work so I've been spending all my spare time working on a local Kobelco plant major expansion and not on my trike.

Front fender showed up yesterday, airbox support ring came last week, rear fender purchased and on the way, rear grab bar is currently under construction. I'm in the garage now to wrap up the fork oil fill/assembly. Waiting on rear axle plating and the new chain before it's time for the heat cycles.

The goal is to be ready by late June.

ironchop

04-07-2019, 10:33 PM

Slipped into the garage for a minute. Did some stuff.

I got a few new parts in over the last month.

New fork oil and Progressive springs for the forks....

I was already $300 into OEM fasteners on this trike so I ended up buying the remainder of the bolts I needed from SpecBolt ("Wurks series" nickle plated dished head, according to them and Rob Selvy who blessed them using the term "Wurks")......I saved about $110 so far this way, paying about a dollar each fastener instead of four dollars. Got the new front fender installed. Rear fender (also in "Fighting Red")showed up from ZM Performance and is stored in the spare bedroom until I'm ready for it.

The Streamline front brake line I got from BDT. The quality is great but it was a tad short for my preference but nothing big. It had to be twisted about 60 degrees to get the banjos properly lined up with the master and caliper.

Still waiting on the axle and then I can finish installing the rear end parts. I have an airbox support ring to install and I might pull the carb again and reclean since it's sat for over a year dry and then I can hook up the airbox boot, install the pipe, fill the tank, and kick it to life.

Thanks for looking

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/5ee2d76782c79ef2326026357d9dd8da.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/40523e41cb3125117bc7efa7cf390956.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/30738da217233cc38ab15a7b73a168b0.jpg

Installed those stainless front fender grommet washers I made by accident. What a useful accident

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/04f6b69c9c7a1d5cc5b7e62725581c94.jpg

The brake line was loose in the stock lower fork leg cable clamp, so I got a larger rubber hose and cut an inch long section, split it up the side, and wrapped the new streamline hose in that, then clamped the cable clamp down around the whole thing and it holds the new line nice and firm.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/e72090ae9d8fd32286aae983d0939842.jpg

Front wheel is all installed and also the front braking system is bled and functioning properly. This was the easiest MC style master cylinder I have ever bled

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/26c8a1520253a7b578572eec40c9c680.jpg

The next to the last pic is....I had a random Chinese gas cap with a neat little check valve (probably not functional, but looks cool) laying around the garage so I got curious and stuck it on my 85 cap. For now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/e2b4bc77e747a774991a2deb01a2d2b0.jpg

I happened to score a sweet front number plate from Liway Swinehart. It's just mocked up in that pic, not permanently attached yet. She still sells alot of the stuff her and John produced over the years so look her up on eBay.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190408/114310006249ecb786bafd4b0a5aec01.jpg

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yaegerb

04-07-2019, 11:28 PM

Very nice, so how close are ya to finishing? I pick up my 86 from BKM next week. He’s been an awesome friend to throw all the parts I bought on it.

El Camexican

04-07-2019, 11:39 PM

those stainless front fender grommet washers I made by accident. What a useful accident.

Yes, yes it was ;)

ironchop

04-07-2019, 11:45 PM

Very nice, so how close are ya to finishing?

I guess it's dependent on how soon the plater gets my axle done. I haven't bought a chain yet, but I have everything else in hand and ready.

The second variable, is that we are absolutely slammed at work with new clients and old ones in expansions and doubling last year's profit numbers already. I'm taking advantage of the overtime (and the pending monster bonus) because me and the lady will be debt free by the end of the year at my current feverish pace *celebratory guns blazing*..... Anyway, my free time is at a premium right now so I will be pushing to be done in a month. Two Max. I'd like to ride it at Haspin this year if work allows it

yaegerb

04-08-2019, 08:37 AM

I guess it's dependent on how soon the plater gets my axle done. I haven't bought a chain yet, but I have everything else in hand and ready.

The second variable, is that we are absolutely slammed at work with new clients and old ones in expansions and doubling last year's profit numbers already. I'm taking advantage of the overtime (and the pending monster bonus) because me and the lady will be debt free by the end of the year at my current feverish pace *celebratory guns blazing*..... Anyway, my free time is at a premium right now so I will be pushing to be done in a month. Two Max. I'd like to ride it at Haspin this year if work allows it

Very cool. Looking forward to seeing it finished!

bkm

04-08-2019, 09:02 AM

Looks awesome Doug. I do the same thing with the lower hose clamp. It makes it fit so much better and you'll never see it down there.

ironchop

04-10-2019, 12:03 AM

I wish you all the best............make sure you put your life first.............and their profit margins on a roll of ace wipe ..........mud or sand ?

Thanks, same to you

I am doing just that, financially maneuvering ourselves so we can unplug from the grid, maybe do the nomad thing for awhile in a camper with a nice little chunk of property to park it on should we need to rest or set roots. I'm over the workaday chump thing. I grew up on a farm and I'd like to return to one to die. Growing my own food and sheet. Living on solar power. Chillin like Wendell Berry, all one with nature.

Sand, yes.......mud, I don't know. I used to think so, but this thing looks even nicer in person because I suck at cellphone photography and especially lighting. Anyway, I'm not feeling the mud thing anymore. I like my stuff to stay nice. I remember how quickly I trashed my 200X cosmetically and the kid after me put another thirty years of aging on it so I'm torn about riding in anything other than dry dirt or sand

bkm

04-10-2019, 08:22 AM

Thanks, same to you

I am doing just that, financially maneuvering ourselves so we can unplug from the grid, maybe do the nomad thing for awhile in a camper with a nice little chunk of property to park it on should we need to rest or set roots. I'm over the workaday chump thing. I grew up on a farm and I'd like to return to one to die. Growing my own food and sheet. Living on solar power. Chillin like Wendell Berry, all one with nature.

Sand, yes.......mud, I don't know. I used to think so, but this thing looks even nicer in person because I suck at cellphone photography and especially lighting. Anyway, I'm not feeling the mud thing anymore. I like my stuff to stay nice. I remember how quickly I trashed my 200X cosmetically and the kid after me put another thirty years of aging on it so I'm torn about riding in anything other than dry dirt or sandIf I wasn't busy overpopulating the world, I'd love to do the same thing. I want out of this job in the worst way and would love to have a little farm to mess around on. I'll live vicariously through you for the time being.

bkm

04-10-2019, 02:48 PM

I could never have done what you do..........ya have to be a people person..........i`m no good at that.........you me and Chop at the Dunes .........Fockers !The job has definitely not gotten better or easier as time has gone on. The dunes are still on my bucket list. I have family in Pismo, so maybe one day I can use that as an excuse to get out there?

ironchop

04-28-2019, 01:39 PM

Got a rare spring day off of work and I took advantage of it.

One of the things holding me up was deciding what to use as a supply hose from the rear master reservoir to the rear master cylinder.

I trolled around FeeBay until I located a 12" long piece of hose shielded in stainless braid for a mere $7 shipped. I determined how long of a piece of that section I would need and then I wrapped it tightly in duct tape and used an air powered die grinder cutoff wheel to cut it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/19de54f30b61c59171fa44584c8349e0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/055a4d742770451229c119e97ca7e310.jpg

I think that the worst part about metal braided line (besides that it holds heat as much as it 'shields" anything, which is not necessarily good) is that after you cut it, you stab your fingers a thousand times with the frayed ends. I also needed a way to wrap the ends up nicely for aesthetic reasons. Enter shrink tubing.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/c69183edc43a3ce7a0d37a3a22051b28.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/81de5cf67a19abbb18d2dd637a00a320.jpg

I trimmed the tubing so that it was too long and would shrink over the ends of the hose to help keep the stabby stuff fenced in.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/b999f5be9fc891bba1246b9c4d583c7a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/da8b780c7f9881436084a9096eec0f0c.jpg

I trimmed off the excess shrink tube in a way that the wrapped over part remained. I planned on using stainless hose clamps and I'm off to the hardware store right after this post for some of those. I shot a pic of the line mocked up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/7f719711a0549c9b2ff55757699a171c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/ed346cc02ec74f96780ebfc658138351.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/22ce77907693f40fd467ea8070ae687e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/d6858282f6083062ec85eefac5aa443b.jpg

I also took my seat, fender hardware, and new rear fender from Maier via the vendor ZMPerformance and bolted everything together for now. I've wanted to mock it up with the tank on to check the seat fit. I spent extra time when I was upholstering the seat to make sure and pull the cover tight enough at the front so the front of the seat wouldn't curl up as they have a tendency to do. Everything looks fine for a rider and it came out better than I thought so I think we're good there. I haven't decided if I'll run the oem wire fender support or not, but the fenders came with new hardware to attach two 'L' brackets to the new fenders so the oem support wire can be utilized.... I'm open for advice on the matter.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/9ae62880c3b739a2edf5153711b317b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/66cc6f25d571e37ebbf5b14019d7f38d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/44cd067ee03b9c50c6c2405dc6e43cc1.jpg

I also always liked MD's sticker choice on the front fender of his 200X racer build, so I totally copied the idea with no regrets. So Mickey gets credit for that feature.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/89a430f87b410c676128b17c3eaee413.jpg

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Shep1970

04-28-2019, 04:03 PM

Looking real nice! I found these hose end covers while working on a different project a while ago, they maybe what your looking for the clamps (they’d cover up those fine metal braids too) and come in many colors/sizes. Your a brave man cutting that braided hose! I’d be bleeding just looking at it. This is just a quick eBay screen shot for an example-258307

Shep
Ps. this post may self destruct in 24hrs:D

ironchop

04-28-2019, 04:52 PM

I found these hose end covers while working on a different project a while ago, they maybe what your looking for the clamps (they’d cover up those fine metal braids too) and come in many colors/sizes. Your a brave man cutting that braided hose! I’d be bleeding just looking at it. This is just a quick eBay screen shot for an example

I had forgotten about those. Used them when I was a much younger man in a couple of cars I messed around with (I didn't have any skills then, so I was just messing around)

I might still go that route. It's not like it's a very expensive dress up part so you get high bling value for pennies haha

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Aulbaugh

04-30-2019, 11:07 AM

I also took my seat, fender hardware, and new rear fender from Maier via the vendor ZMPerformance and bolted everything together for now. I've wanted to mock it up with the tank on to check the seat fit. I spent extra time when I was upholstering the seat to make sure and pull the cover tight enough at the front so the front of the seat wouldn't curl up as they have a tendency to do. Everything looks fine for a rider and it came out better than I thought so I think we're good there. I haven't decided if I'll run the oem wire fender support or not, but the fenders came with new hardware to attach two 'L' brackets to the new fenders so the oem support wire can be utilized.... I'm open for advice on the matter.

Do you still have to drill 2 screws into the plastics to hold the support or am I wrong on that?

ironchop

04-30-2019, 11:28 AM

Do you still have to drill 2 screws into the plastics to hold the support or am I wrong on that?

You are correct.

They sent two little L brackets and some nuts/bolts/washers to attach those brackets to the fender after you drill a couple of holes. I'm not too keen on having shiny bolt heads hanging off my fender on each side like a sore thumb but if it is as beneficial as it is an eyesore, I'll consider it. Otherwise, I don't want a drill anywhere near my shiny $250 rear fender.... Plus I'm missing the OEM support wire and that would need to be procured, but they ain't cheap or plentiful

barnett468

04-30-2019, 01:27 PM

You are correct.

They sent two little L brackets and some nuts/bolts/washers to attach those brackets to the fender after you drill a couple of holes. I'm not too keen on having shiny bolt heads hanging off my fender on each side like a sore thumb but if it is as beneficial as it is an eyesore, I'll consider it. Otherwise, I don't want a drill anywhere near my shiny $250 rear fender.... Plus I'm missing the OEM support wire and that would need to be procured, but they ain't cheap or plentiful

Here's a few wires and brackets I found that didn't seem overly expensive.

http://www.2040-parts.com/85-86-atc250r-honda-oem-seat-rear-fender-bracket-wire-support-latch-250r-atc-i2007007/

http://www.2040-parts.com/85-86-atc250r-honda-oem-seat-front-rear-fender-brackets-support-latch-250r-atc-i2007006/

https://picclick.com/1985-1986-Honda-Atc250R-Rear-Fender-Seat-Support-233003482068.html

https://www.ebay.com/p/1985-85-250r-ATC-Honda-Seat-Rear-Fender-Latch-Release-Bracket-1986-86-Atc250r/15011496779

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=honda+3+wheeler+atv&Brand=Honda&_dcat=6028&_vxp=mtr&_osacat=6028&_ssc=1&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=atc250r+rear+fender+bracket&_sacat=6028

It looks to me like you can fabricate the 2 loops the wire goes into then simply glue them to the fender. Low grade .090" thick aluminum should work and should be pliable enough to make it conform to the fender with a little hammaring etc. The secret is finding the best adhesive for the app and making the brackets a decent size. The larger the contact area is, the less likely it is they will come unglued. I would shoot for at least 2 square inches of contact area with a little more like 2.5 being even better.

Unfortunately, the adhesive I use to use has been discontinued. It was killer stuff and I used it for a ton of things, including gluing nearly half a prototype jet ski together that I had to fabricate at Kawasaki, but there are some others I have not tried yet that should work and are listed below. You can call 3M and see if you can talk to someone in the Adhesives division and tell them what you are wanting to do and they should be able to tell you which product will work best for your app.

I would sand the bracket and fender with 80 grit then clean both with rubbing alcohol, as lacquer thinner and some other solvents can adversely affect some plastics, and thereby reduce their ability for the adhesive to hold, but you can ask 3M about that as well.

1 (888) 364-3577

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Panel-Bonding-Adhesive/?N=5002385+8709313+8710693+8711413+8712771+3293241 847&preselect=8716717&rt=rud

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Structural-Adhesive/?N=5002385+8709313+8710693+8711413+3293194137&preselect=8712771+8716717&rt=rud

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld-Acrylic-Adhesive-DP810NS/dp/B000X57YI8

https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/duramix-super-fast-adhesive-04747-p-10766.aspx

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Automotive/Collision-Repair/Automotive-Products/Automotive-Tapes-Adhesives/Adhesives/?N=5002385+8709313+8710693+8711017+8711413+8712771 +8716717+3294857497&rt=r3

You could also just buy this NOS fender for only $4,499.00 (only $85.00 more for shipping https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/hysterical.gif) but you better hurry cuz the ad ends in just 4 days.

https://picclick.com/NOS-Honda-ATC-250r-Rear-Fender-New-OEM-113730792683.html

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/rJYAAOSwBg5csl5S/$/NOS-Honda-ATC-250r-Rear-Fender-New-OEM-_57.jpg

Aulbaugh

05-01-2019, 12:54 PM

ironchop

05-01-2019, 05:01 PM

Thanks for the links, Barn. I'm going to look into using that adhesive. I like that idea.

Lunch break fun.... Nothing major.... Tying up loose ends

I made something that replaces the factory upper shock bolt seals that I can't find anywhere.

No, they don't have rubber seal lips but I cut them .002 bigger than the outer sleeve so that they would still move freely but not have a major gap in there where debris can work underneath

I also polished the sleeve up a little. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/ebe4dec08171741b44dc3e25a3a004b7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/6aed2cb49be89a8acd329989fced0273.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/afd442de2aa799bd20af35ce4366a44d.jpg

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barnett468

05-01-2019, 06:56 PM

If you want, you can use felt or sponge foam and make a couple 1/4" wide washers that will catch a lot of the dust etc. You can also buy them online.

https://pagebean-pagebean.netdna-ssl.com/sciplus/productImages/Regular/57294.jpg

ironchop

05-01-2019, 07:17 PM

barnett468

05-01-2019, 08:30 PM

I like that idea ALOT

xlnt, it's easy to overthink things, at least for me. I have a habit of doing that, then I go back to basics and try to think of the simplest, fastest, and cheapest solution etc, and often end up much more in that area. They actually use felt washers as seals on a lot of the vintage dirt bikes on the brake arm where the arm sticks out thru the brake backing plate. The earlier Jaguars even use a dense felt strip as a bushing for the steering column shaft. I found this out when I had a sloppy steering column on one of my old Jaguars and removed the mounting bracket and saw a piece of felt stuffed in there, so I figured someone just put the felt in there to reduce the slop instead of getting the poper bushing, so I went to the dealer and told them I needed the steering column bushing and they brought out another piece of felt. :lol:

Red Rider

05-02-2019, 10:13 AM

I bet you felt like the dealer was steering you in the wrong direction. Such is the fabric of today’s society, I guess.

ironchop

05-02-2019, 11:07 AM

I bet you felt like the dealer was steering you in the wrong direction. Such is the fabric of today’s society, I guess.Triple dog applauds you for this pun

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ironchop

05-08-2019, 05:06 PM

On today's episode of "The 85 and 86 ATC250R's are nearly identical"......
Ironchop calls bullshyte.

Here is yet another of the dozens of differences between the two years.

The hole in this chain guard is too small for the oem bolt and corresponding mounting block that came on this frame. Nothing a drill can't fix, but at this point, if someone says 'they are the same' then give them a hefty kick in the balls and show them this thread.

Its not a big deal drilling out a hole a little bigger on a rider but I must say that if I was doing a real restoration, I would be furious at this point from all the mislabeled used parts I have had to sift through to get the correct year item

To all you eBay sellers......NO, it's not an "85-86" part and if you simply say "will also fit _____" then make sure you tell the shopper that they are most likely NOT the same part as the other year. The mismatched fork legs being sold as 86 that I mentioned above is the perfect example of getting screwed if you want a true resto.

You have to do your homework if you aren't looking to cobble up a Franken-trike or else you're going to end up with some incorrect parts. In 18 yrs of lurking here, I have yet to see anyone mention all these differences, so pay close attention. I'm off to drill something. Rock on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190508/a2d38b0bb860c42f5dc5dbe7ac11f754.jpg

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Scootertrash

05-08-2019, 08:21 PM

Triple dog applauds you for this pun

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As do I.......

ironchop

06-01-2019, 09:03 PM

Tinkerin' about some today

Cut a gasket for the parking brake block off plate, wipe some gasket sealer on it and tighten.

Got the petcock installed with new oem o-ring. Tightened the tank.

Mocked up the Kenny Roberts pipe and silencer to see if there's any fitment issues. Took a little jiggling around and some creative language and it seems to fit like a glove.

The rear axle is back home and I am planning to send it to get yellow chromate elsewhere. The guy who was going to do it is just buried and I want yellow chromate and he doesn't do that finish so I think I'm sending it off to another member.

Ordered some rear caliber boots I had forgot to order.

It's getting therehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/23d7475921e2cf98a3fad3a223626fe9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/5f5d37676e2f2abac3a53b278650d544.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/002a279294a1da3435afbc3dfb91075f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/c1e0bd07e03c8a318ed41a88c989470a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/bb7e42eb9222dcaef6c759a98d385108.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/f2179a3e1a20b907679d1b5390b1281b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/ad08569a24d8b4bd38c0c74c0de86a59.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/31718b3c3fd34f1f93f3275df4a40bff.jpg

Aulbaugh

06-01-2019, 10:24 PM

Looking good brother! Almost there!

bkm

06-01-2019, 11:38 PM

Looking might swell there fella. You're on the home stretch now.

Red Rider

06-02-2019, 01:36 AM

Looking good iron. I'm loving that pipe.

coolpool

06-02-2019, 11:09 AM

ironchop

06-02-2019, 11:46 AM

Great work and effort as always, Doug! I think you may have slipped into a resto looking machine without realizing it, it sure is purdy! Wish I was jawing with you at TF but unfortunately that's not happening for me :-(Looking bad for me too brother. The Kobelco expansion is overdue thanks to a bunch of add-ons mid-project and it's looking like we aren't getting done before the week of 7/4....I can't be gone until it's done due to my position

Thanks for the compliments

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yaegerb

06-02-2019, 01:14 PM

Damn doug that thing looks great! You are getting close!

ironchop

06-07-2019, 12:45 PM

Did some stuff.

The rest of the hardware and software showed up in the mail so I was able to get the caliper grease out and lube up all the sliding pins and collars. Fought to get one slider thru the boots for almost 30 minutes as it kept wanting to push the boots out of their grooves.

Rear caliper is fully assembled.

Also I looked for OEM bottom rad shroud washer/collar everywhere and since they are discontinued and rarely pop up for sale elsewhere, I turned some new aluminum ones myself during a downtime period at work (20 minutes ....haha)

Not much to look at, I know. I should skip to the final assembly but you know how it goes when you're waiting for parts to come in.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/3190c7cc93a108a607a1e2f49f180d25.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/2ed2e1fff7801f16b153dea4962c3583.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/8a2a0c1d3eb5ca8b5a185ae7e425b706.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/eac54602a17fa7f8b302db39d4ee9ffa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/0f66ffd66eeda2796de85c005e8bef15.jpg

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ironchop

06-09-2019, 08:05 PM

I got the skid plate trimmed because it was touching the pipe and causing some interference. Mounted the skid plate and then the pipe was final fitted. I would have mounted the muffler permanently if I hadn't forgot to buy the springs for that rubber collar that seals the junction. Ordered those. Went ahead and bled the rear caliper too although it isn't mounted on the swingarm yet

I had also forgotten that I never terminated the wiring on the TRX switch guts that I put in the ATC housing with a plug that fits my ps2fixer wiring harness.

I had purchased the female plug housing and the male blade connectors to finish the switch pigtail long ago and put all of it in a box to figure out later and then forgot about it until yesterday

Jets are ordered so I had better have a working engine/light switch if I plan on firing it up.

The extra black and green wires are something I modded into the pigtail. I'm going to order plugs for these and they will be the two leads for a tether kill switch to be added later. Had to order those connectors as well, but I did as much as I could today.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/bc74ebfaab5fd575608b866b26a71f6b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/3744a061ad905ea3d1751f89d9a87d5f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/201bc72f98b290e1d8721d8e3e35ad06.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/6e742b4359026cb5202ddd3e6142650e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/a55975f782543d2e96a695650c017a08.jpg

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Aulbaugh

06-09-2019, 09:00 PM

I could use 2 sets of those bottom rad spacers!

ironchop

06-13-2019, 09:51 PM

I don't know how well these pics will look. I'm not a photographer by any stretch and my garage lighting has always been minimal.

Went and polished the rear axle some more so my plating will look better after it's applied. I'm really thinking about shooting some clear coat over it and riding it like that for awhile

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190614/109f6212102d3a18408aad10b4cd7a67.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190614/0ed3a59ba69ae1be6b9ebfc7aab0a4d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190614/71a3b0c64857e2e5e17553d74e270782.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190614/a7fa70215eada4295387d7eac2adf9e6.jpg

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yaegerb

06-13-2019, 10:41 PM

Hey doug, this is strictly my opinion but I would get that plated while you have it out.

ps2fixer

06-14-2019, 01:22 AM

schlepp29

06-14-2019, 09:25 AM

Speaking of plating where do you send it to and how much is something like that? By the way looking really good!

ironchop

06-14-2019, 11:06 AM

Yea, I've read that steel flash rusts really fast from moisture in the air, best to get it plated asap or you'll have to touch it up again.

Looks like the connector worked out pretty well, kind of shocked the heat shrink didn't cause any problems cliping the termianal into the housing, unless you got the connectors from another supplier, I use http://cycleterminal.com for most of my needs. If I have the wire stick out the crimp just a tiny bit farther than ideal, it won't clip in the housing and I have to use a razor to cut the copper off and it clips in just fine. Looks like the soldering came out well too, you know the secrets of soldering, enough heat and flux lol.

I know you've already figured out the pinout for the TRX vs ATC wiring, but here's a run down of function/color normally used for Honda harnesses, at least for like the 84-87 era

Blue - Headlight Brights
White - Headlight Dims
Green - Engine/Frame ground
Black/White - Engine Kill, older machines short to ground to kill, newer machines commonly work in reverse and short is run.
Brown - Taillight power, only gets power when lights are turned on
Yellow or Black/Brown - Power into the switches

Black is a bit of a wild card, sometimes it's a hot wire, sometimes it's the engine kill switch wire.

Normally the best thing to do is validate function with a multi meter and testing which switch effects which wires and compare with the target machine's wire diagram.Yeah the black with white stripe on my new quad switches powers the engine switch just like OEM ATC250R and the black with white blocks wire from the quad switches is the hot for the lights. It mates to the white with yellow/orange stripe pinout on the OEM ATC harness plug. All the other colors between the new quad switches and the oem R switches were a direct match at the plugs. Only one of five didn't match colors.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/6e742b4359026cb5202ddd3e6142650e.jpg

I'll cover the jumper wire you made me in a future post along with the other things you taught me regarding the different regulators.

The shrink tubing did get in the way of the terminal locking into the plug housing but I trimmed it back just a little and got them locked in

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ironchop

06-14-2019, 11:17 AM

Speaking of plating where do you send it to and how much is something like that? By the way looking really good!I haven't chosen a shop yet. It was at a shop and on their list but that's when I was going to just zinc it (Brite zinc) and his lead time is insane because it's just one older couple running the whole show and doing all the work. I want yellow chromate finish instead so I'm trying to find a different shop to do it.

I'm thinking they said it would be somewhere between $50 and $100 depending on how much cleanup they have to do to the axle

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ps2fixer

06-14-2019, 12:42 PM

You could do it yourself, like the actual setup is stupid cheap, but getting things working good on other parts first then doing the axle is kind of needed.

Bare basics, you need a tub that doesn't react with the acid, fill with enough acid to cover the target parts, hook up one wire to the part, and the other wire to a chunk of zinc that's also sitting in the acid. Polarity matters, one way you're plating the zinc, other way you're plating the part. You have to move the part, flip it over etc to get even coverage. Basically the zinc dissolves in the acid, and the electricity pulls it to the metal part. Surface area and such is a pretty big factor and such too.

I've read about doing this stuff a few times, but never tried it. Same logic can be applied to rusted parts, the rusted part is the source, and you plate another steel part with the rust.

$50-100 seems really fair for an axle. The yellow chromate finish I don't know much about, but I kind of remember it took some sort of special process to do it, different material or something.

The main thing you'd need to find is a DC power supply of sorts, voltage matters a little but not super critical, it's the amps that does the work. I've read a lot of people using computer power supplies on the 5v rail, modern power supplies you'd probably be targeting the 12v rail. Even a car battery with a charger on it would work.

schlepp29

06-14-2019, 12:46 PM

Thanks ironchop, well hopefully you get a shop found. Thanks for the reply. That's worth the money, I got a nasa axle for my 200x that needs done.

ironchop

06-15-2019, 02:58 PM

Ok, I've been meaning to post this update for a few days.....

More differences between 85 and 86 R's

1985 and 1986 ATC250R regulator/rectifier are NOT THE SAME and NOT PLUG AND PLAY whereas the wiring connectors are concerned. Alot of you R gurus knew that already, I'm sure, but I got schooled after I went to plug up my regulator to my new wiring harness and only one bullet connector would connect. I never messed with building R's until this one, so I'm in new territory and still learning.

SO....I found this out thanks to Cory (ps2fixer). Apparently, I bought a rectifier on FleaBay that was mislabeled as an 86 regulator. It ended up being an 85, which as Cory explained, had different bullet connectors. I had asked if I could get the corresponding connector so I could replace the one on my harness with the same parts he used to make it, for continuity's sake (pun intended).

So he shoots me some pics of the difference so I could correctly identify them in the future and offered to make me a short adapter wire so that I could keep my nice new 86 harness intact, keep the incorrect regulator I already paid $60 for, and have it all work out fine for me anyway.

Many thanks to ps2fixer for the save especially since he uses the professional crimpers that actually crimp terminals rather than smash them together like so many hardware store varieties.... I can smash up my own wiring just fine, but it's nice when it's correct and professional looking instead. I'm willing to shed a few coins for quality

I'll include the pics of the different regulator connections in this post as well, and Cory can chime in and correct me if I misquote anything.

I tried to make the installation of the adapter wire he sent me as exciting and detailed as possible in my photo presentation below [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

He has more adapters available I thinkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/580c1a40f2e7c1b840ac7bbce76bcb2d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/0a17a56991cf7de94d0b9365e3392d18.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/e21eeec88a60f2de928f0c15b9363849.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/2e31a8ed31cff5a5d3001c0def13da89.jpg

1985 regulator....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/7a12b75fb1cf61bd07f224ed49a953e6.jpg

1986 regulator.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/b3da266176a2f60bb802b5c2349f52a3.jpg

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ps2fixer

06-15-2019, 03:10 PM

Yep seems all spot on. The regulator with 2 males is the 85, the other with one male, one female is the 86. The harness ironchop had made I built to the 86 specs, basically the CDI and Regulator connections are the only differences in the main harness.

Anyway, I normally don't link products for adverting and such, but since you've mentioned them, here's the links. Nothing too special, just good wire, connectors, and crimps =).

85 harness to 86 regulator
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192951072418

86 harness to 85 regulator
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202707582335

As a side note, ironchop, do you mind if I use your photos as an "install guide" for my listing? Showing the actual harness/regulator connectors would help people out I'm sure. I'd just need someone with an 85 harness and 86 regulator to complete the photo set.

The regulator photos are from ebay, so sadly I can't really use those.

ironchop

06-15-2019, 03:13 PM

...
As a side note, ironchop, do you mind if I use your photos as an "install guide" for my listing? Showing the actual harness/regulator connectors would help people out I'm sure. I'd just need someone with an 85 harness and 86 regulator to complete the photo set..

Yes, you may

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ps2fixer

06-15-2019, 03:30 PM

Thanks, btw really weird, the tapatalk hosted images show up as a standard jpg in the url, but go to save it and it's some web based image format. I just ended up screenshotting the images to get them lol. Anyway, they are on the listing now =).

ironchop

06-23-2019, 02:26 PM

Tore it halfway back down to check all my frame fasteners, re-route the throttle cable, shorten a cooling hose that was smashed up against the pipe pretty bad, and I checked for other interferences and fixed those.

I bought an airbox support ring..... One..... That seemed wrong so I texted Yaeger Performance for some advice and then ordered a second one. I put the first one on the intake tube side of the airbox so I could finish installing the carburetor. I put the second ring on with the air filter later.

I got the carb re-jetted with genuine Keihin jets for initial startup/heat cycles and went ahead and installed a new Keihin float, baffle, and float needle and tossed the Shindy rebuild parts in the drawer.

My clutch lever/perch showed up. I was looking for an MSR but it appears that they are owned by Pro Taper now (?). Still a good quality lever/perch. Got that installed and the clutch cable routed and connected.

Got the carb installed and noticed I was missing the carb clamp. After an hour worth of looking around the garage, I picked up my phone and ordered another. Looks like another three or four days before I start this thing.[emoji24][emoji24].... I thought I was doing a good job of having everything on hand for each stage so I wouldn't be held up, but I was WRONG.

Nobody on Earth could drag out building a 250R like I can.

I'm going to pull a motor mount plate and make sure I have good metal-to-metal contact for grounding purposes and reinstall later today.

My Pipe seemed like it was in a bind in the rear after I tightened everything up so I milled a spacer and a clamping bar to spread out the clamping area a bit and hopefully show down the cracking of the muffler mounting tab.

Rock on, trike brethren.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/b55eaae8c76192b428684a6d2b7baaa8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/4d62ff0d1f8afac278780ab322b9291c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/643aa072f9ca6bd837a2aef8d37c3308.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/e99bbf879dafe7f4c0641c519b9565a8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/c2cdbec83ebcff2d7df91659c5d4013e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/64ee5035a6950337261d7cdd67b33f10.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/40e5b80298d3f7a021345debb8b34c7b.jpg

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