Need to know about 85/86 350X flywheels.

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey guys. Well, I have a bunch of take out motors for a 350X. Some I stole the stator off, some the head to be ported and other miscellaneous parts to get 4 or so all complete and a couple for parts.

There are 2 different stators and I know the difference in them, I can spot it a mile away.

However, maybe in 2014, I couldn't get my 350X to run for Trikefest and actually had to leave it home!! So, I don't know EVERYTHING, :lol:

Here is the deal; 1 flywheel will fit over BOTH the 85 and 86 stator. But the one that doesn't match that stator will give spark, just not enough.

And I fooled the hell outta me. I was stumped for a month!! I finally thought about it and sure enough it fired 1st kick; But I wasn't smart enough to mark it right then and there. I am building a 350X new take out right now for the 2017 NEEDT series. The flywheel cover is off and the stator in there is an 86. But remember, both flywheels fit over that stator which is bolted to the cover and I can't spot the right flywheel because they both fit.

I don't enjoy stealing parts from these motors, but some of these motors had a cracked cylinder fin or cut stator wires so I don't run that junk and sometimes it's just a necessity....

So, 1, You 350X guys should all be aware of the nightmare that can cause!!

And 2, I am asking if anyone can spot an 85 or 86 flywheel by their markings or inside diameter so I know which is an 85, and which is an 86 flywheel. Verbal descriptions will work but a picture of 1 next to the other would be fantastic!!

I have both, but I don't want to pull off a take out motors gasket just to see which one it is.

If anyone can say, "this is an 85 fly" and "this is an 86 fly", it will help me out and others will learn to never make the same mistake. Post up the stators to help others if you wish, but as I said, I can spot that difference with ease.

Thank you for any help......

DC

[Dirtcrasher]

Anyone have an 85 and 86 to compare?? Or even just an 85 might show me because I have an 86 in the shop (without tearing a new motor apart)....

I'd want the I.D. (inside diameter)

Thanks for any help!!

[yaegerb]

When I look up the flywheel on partzilla, its the same flywheel part number for the 85/86. Unless partzilla is wrong, they are the same flywheel. I have read that that stators are different though and to tell them apart, 85 is bare wire and the 86 is coated. Its also possible that the stators are positioned differently and it has little or nothing to do with the flywheel.....

[BOB MARLIN]

I know that the 86 flywheel ends up closer to the center line of the engine. I don't know if its the flywheel or the crankshaft that makes it that way. I will be watching this thread because I have been wondering if there is a way to tell the difference also.

[jb2wheels]

Does this help?

LINK (http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/170096-Six-million-dollar-350x-No-power!!-Help!!?p=1333558#post1333558)

[Dirtcrasher]

AH HA!! There is an issue something going on with them but now it's even stranger :lol:


And Yaeger knows his stuff. So that tells me Honda superseded the part number to all 86 flywheels; But then how do they work!!!!

[86T3]

I'd message Sean Ridgeway on facebook DC, he is very knowledgeable about these and I know he has both year motors

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Thanks Joe. You going to Kinston?? And I have some info on your AXIS shock, just need an address; P M me if you'd like....

[Dirtcrasher]

I read that link and today I found 2 NOS Nippen-denso flywheels but I don't own an 85 and never have.

He says photo on the right is an 85, huh?? Looks like an 86.

One on the left looks like an 85 but he called it an 86? IDK......

[jb2wheels]

It's possible I got them backwards and now it's all fuzzy and worse than not helpful... sorry.

[Mickey Dunlap]

I didn't read all of this, so if you found the answers you are looking for never mind my post. The 85' has small rivet heads on the back side, but it's easy to see the difference on the inside because the 86' is smaller on the id.86' on the left in both pics.

240048240049

[Dirtcrasher]

Thank you Mickey....

Now, if you tell me which CDI box gives us more revs, I'll change all your trike team riders oils at Kinston :lol:

[Mickey Dunlap]

Thank you Mickey....

Now, if you tell me which CDI box gives us more revs, I'll change all your trike team riders oils at Kinston :lol:

LOL, I'm still working on that. I have 4 different ones. All of them worked on the 86' 502cc I built, but the 3 I had at the last race for Bryan's TT bike, none of them worked on his. Then another customer that got the 2nd gen TT motor only one
worked on his. That same one started up on Bryan's but wouldn't rev. Both on these motors, Bryan's and the 2nd gen motors are the early 86' motors with the fly wheels on the right, then I guess Honda changed them later in 86'. I never got into all this back in the day so I'm learning all this now, however I do remember going through this in the early 90's when we were putting these motors in the 250x and 250r frames. I had 2 motors on the bench and I mixed up the fly wheels and one wouldn't start, so I went through what you are going through too.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

One thing to remember about 350x flywheels Steve.... The DO shear their key from time to time!! LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist....carry on buddy. :)

[Dirtcrasher]

^ You SOB!! :lol: I always think of you when this type of topic comes up!!

[barnett468]

...which CDI box gives us more revs...

This gets a bit complicated to explain but here is some general info . If your cdi has a rev limiter and you are hitting the rev limiter, you can get a cdi that has an adjustable rev limiter, however, the timing curve will most likely be different . You can map/plot the timing curve to some degree if you put degree marks on the flywheel and have a tach and timing light . This will allow you to see the difference between the curve in the two cdi boxes . In general, if only the cam is changed to a larger one and all else remains the same, you will get more power everywhere if you increase the timing throughout the entire rpm range.

If you don't have a mechanical advance unit and don't have a rev limiter, you can increase the timing throughout the entire rpm range by advancing the flywheel with an offset key or removing the bump on the flywheel and advancing it or advancing the pick up if there is some way to do it on the particular bike you are working on.

If you have a mechanical advance unit you can simply modify that to get more max advance . If you want to change the timing curve on a mechanical advance unit you can bend the spring stops slightly and/or try different spring.

Since incorrect timing can cause increased heat and/or detonation etc, it is important to monitor these things, and if you don't have a lot of experience with changing timing curves it would be helpful to install a temp sensor and ideally also a detonation sensor, however, detonation sensors are very expensive . A spare piston might also come in handy. :)



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f, vedegree s you have a tachpat n aftall you need to do is Max revs are cntrIf you

[Dirtcrasher]

If I were to advance it, keeping heat and detonation in mind, how many degrees is safe??

[Mickey Dunlap]

If I were to advance it, keeping heat and detonation in mind, how many degrees is safe??

The problem with the stock CDI is it retards the timing on top end, and so if you advance the flywheel the retard hits sooner. The CDI's I have advance the timing quicker and doesn't have any rev limiters or retard in them. But they are all different timing curves so the dyno work is the only way I will know which one will work best.