Long Live 3Wheeling Magazine

[oldfart]

Hello, for those of you that are old enough, you might remember a publication entitled 3Wheeling Magazine, published by Wright Publishing Co, of Costa Mesa, CA. This magazine started in March 1980 with its first issue devoted to the ATC/3-wheeler market. At the time, I was the Associate Publisher/Advertising Director and co-creater of this idea (with Tom Chambers). We actually started covering the ATC market in issues of Hot VWs Magazine, back as far as 1976. We even covered ATC90 flat-track racing in the San Diego area during the late '70s.

My first "ATV" was a 1975 Honda US90, with steel front fender, and folding fork assembly. My last ATV was an ATC350X.

Up to about 1988, I can safely say that I rode nearly every production ATV that was produced up to that time, and many prototypes that never were built for production. I rode the Honda ATC200R, Honda ATC450R and many other "secret" projects. The 1987 ATC250R with white plastic? Yup, that one too.

Since the last issue of 3Wheeling/ATV Sports was published, I have not been on an ATV.... After spending the majority of my time riding, testing, building and loving 3- and 4-wheelers (nearly ten solid years), and seeing the ATV industry turn upside down by some legal morons, I could no longer enjoy my sport.

I got rid of all of my spare parts, riding apparel, ATVs and so on, in the late '80s. The only treasure I still hold on to, is my collection of factory rider helmets. This includes helmets worn by Dean Sundahl, Stevie Wright, Tracey Dickson, Mike Hallet, Mark Wiexeldorfer, Jimmy White and Mike Coe. I only wish I had one from Bob "Ace" Williams...

That is for now. I just thought some of you might like to hear from someone that was there in the beginning... before the CPSC, and lawsuit city. Sincerely, Dean Kirsten

[Rod]

Welcome to the board! I can bet you will get LOTS of questions to answer if you are up to it so get ready! Again, welcome to the best 3 wheel site on the net.

[J.D.]

Cool, sounds like you had one hell of a time doing all this stuff huh? Lucky guy!!!

[MIK6]

WELCOME TO THE SITE!!!!
This site has a membership of almost 3000 members. From the young, just getting into ATVs , to the older members that remember the day when you could just go buy a NEW trike. It has people restoring, collecting, and customizing trikes. We also hold "TRIKEFEST" in Indiana atleast once a year w/ site members attending from all over the world. Have a blast here, I hope you stay around. I am looking forward to your stories and input.

HAVE FUN
MIK6 / Mike

[ScottZJ]

WOW! Glad to meet ya. I am slowly trying to get my collection back in order. I just read an article and remember those days like it was yesterday............peace

[3WheelsForever]

Welcome to the board. Im also hoping you stick around. So there was an 87 250? Do you have any 3 wheeling magazines that youd be willing to get rid of?

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Dean (AKA-Oldfart), Welcome to the site. It is nice to see someone visit from the origin of our sport and especially from the cherished 3Wheeling magazine. There are quite a few guys on here that remember your name like I do as this board has members from every age bracket. I hope that you will visit and post here often as I am sure that many people on this board will have lots of questions that only an ex-insider will have answers for. By the way I was a subscriber to your magazine from the days when it was a quarterly publication all the way until the end with ATV Sports. Yes I still have every issue as well.

Well instead of bombarding you with questions right away I would just like to extend a warm WELCOME and hope you visit us again soon.

Curtis aka tecate3@aol.com

[sportvette]

Welcome to the site! Glad to have you here.

So what is the scoop on the 87 atc250r?

thanks,
mark

[Trikeaholic]

Welcome aboard! I remember those days as well. I hope you will stick around and possibly get back into the hobby. It would help "legitimize" the 3 wheeler as a "real" ATV, a fact that seems to have been forgotten. I personally dont own a quad, and have no desire to.....EVER. I will keep my trikes running and in mint condition as long as i am on this earth. :-D

[Kevin in Ohio]

Some of the scoop on the '87 250R was that it was only available for sale out of the United States. I actually saw one in person at Haspin Acres in '87. As Dean said, all white and looked similar to the '86 350x. If he doesn't reply I'll dig out my old issues and see if there were any changes done to the bike. Kevin

[250rAL]

Cool! Nice to hear from you Dean. I was a subscriber from '85 til the end then had to switch to Dirtwheels. I much prefered 3Wheeling/ATV Sports though. It was months before I found out what happened to the magazine; no internet back then you know. Maybe you could fill us in on what happened to the other staff members and what they're doing now.

[Howdy]

Welcome aboard!! We all hope you enjoy the site ( and visit a bunch too ).
I am sure you will get a ton of questions. lol

This should bring back some memories:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/MagScans/C3Wheeling1980m01SpringPage01CoverThumb.jpg

Larger version:

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/MagScans/C3Wheeling1980m01SpringPage01Cover.jpg

Howdy

[Jeb]

Great Post Dean! We've been waiting a long time for an editor or pro racer from back in the day to post here and acknowledge our existence on the web!

I, like many of my fellow posters here, have a couple issues of 3 Wheeling and ATV Sports left over from the 80's. I've been 3-wheeling myself since 1982 when I got my new ATC70 for Christmas (and I still have it!). I've ridden dirt bikes and 4wheelers and would have never guessed I'd still be on 3 wheels in the 21st century!

Welcome aboard! Hope you stick around.

[Yamahammer490]

Welcome to the board and thanks for bring back a few memories. I purchased my first 3 wheeler in 1982 and read most of your mags.

Those early days were so cool. There was so much innovation. Now all we get are quads with bold new graphics...

There are a lot of great guys here keeping trikes alive. Please jump in often.

[ATC crazy]

Hey! :-P Welcome to the board Dean. I hope you stay around a while and check in often (dont forget chat too ;) )

You wouldnt happen to have any pictures of the prototype ATC's left over would ya? I'm sure we would all love to see them. Any info would be great.

Thanks for checking out 3ww :-D

[Ace Mon]

Dang Dean ... I wish you were my dad .Infact you might just be my dad . Were you at woodstock ? All kidding aside , welcome aboard . Come into Chat sometime and we'll exchange some stories .

[Beer_Smurf]

Dean,
Great to hear from you.
Thank you for all your great work in the past.
You can come ride my ATC anytime.
It would be great if you could give some perspective for some of our newer riders.
Maybe an column for 3wheelerworld?

I'm proud to still have my 3wheeling sticker on my '84.

Best wishes
Don
Reno, NV

[Russell 350X]

Hey welcome to the site! I'll prolly have questions for you sometime soon lol.

[Red Rider]

I truly love the sport of 3wheeling/ATVing also, but I'm not gonna sell my 3wheeler just because some legal morons made it too expensive/illegal for the manufacturers to produce new 3wheelers. If you let the lawyers take away what you love to do, then they truly have won.

[Dynofox]

I've got almost every 3 and 4 wheeler mag from about 1982-1989 and have seen your name plenty of times. It's cool to have someone famous on here! :-D

[hondaatcvabeach]

I wish there was a mag. like that in print today. I would settle for one page in Dirt Wheels.

[Wickedfinger]

Welcome Dean!!! :clap ........... can't wait to share some stories with ya and talk to you in chat. I'm very glad you found us.

[350x'inNY]

I got into 3Wheeling in '82 and had to go to the motorcycle shop to get your mag, as the local grocery stores never had it. I liked it because it had more 'depth' and less flash compared to Dirt Wheels.

Welcome to the site! I have a couple 350X's and soon to have a couple Yamaha YTM200ERN Yamahaulers (eventhough we had an 82 and 83 200E Big Reds on the farm growing up)

Bruce

[greenhuman]

Hi Dean
I got into trikes back in '75 and have owned them ever since. I've still got the October 1978 issue of Hot VW's with the center few pages dedicated to trikes. I used to buy Hot VW's just to look at the ATC accessory shops adds. I contacted Pauter Machine and Johnson's ATC mini truck the same day I got the Oct '78 issue. I had to send a letter back then as calling from Australia by phone had to be booked in and it cost about $15 per minute. Anyway, after many months of letters, my friend and I received our 180cc alky burning ATC90 engine kits. 61mm 13-1 forged Venolia piston and big finned alloy cylinder kit, 61mm balanced stroker crank, 30mm inlet valve/roller cam head, 28mm methanol carb/manifold kit and heavy duty clutch kit. Talk about go! Ace Williams was a genius. When the "82 250R'rs finally arrived, we could keep up with them anywhere in the sand, but the spoil sports would head for bumpy terrain. These 180's are still kicking around even now.
Anyway , enough raving for now.

[oldfart]

About the '87 ATC250R.... When the bottom fell out of the 3-wheeler market, and Honda had a boatload of them... they were forced to export them to Europe. However, we got our hands on a '87 R up in Canada, which was not part of the CPSC deal. That's how we got a chance to ride one. Photos of prototype ATCs? Sorry no. Part of my deal with many of the test riders was that I was able to look, touch and ride, but no words or photos in the magazine. The ATC450R was a monster, flat scarey to ride. Way too fast for the general public. The ATC200R was really too pipey for me, and a little too small for my 6-1 size.

Here's a little known fact. Pipe builder, Daryl Bassani owns one of the first ATC250Rs ever made. It was used by Team Honda ATC on the original Parker 400 race, and some in Mexicali 250 race, before it broke a rear axle. Daryl got the bike from Wes McCoy in exchange for the favors he did for Team Honda. That ATC has a chassis number like 00007, or lower!

That's all for now. I'll chim in from time to time, with other odds and ends as I recall them. We had a great time doing that magazine, some of the best trips to Mexico you can imagine! Cheers! Dean Kirsten

[mad_max]

Now thats some cool info.... thanks "Deano" (as the illustration in Dean's column in 3wheeling used to say).

Heres a pic of Team Honda (Wes McCoy sitting on Bike) I cant remember where I found this....

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Dean, Thanks again for posting.
In my quest for Tecate parts and info I talked to nearly all of the ex-factory riders and tuners as well. Darryl was hands down the least interested in talking 3-Wheelers. As a known Tecate Guru I expected him to at least recollect some knowledge but he was uninterested in even talking about it. Maybe I just caught him at a bad time...I guess it is good to know that he still has a three wheeler or two hanging around. Especially a rare one like that. Other tuners like Harry Klemm were very happy to bench race and share old setups etc. for as long as I wanted.

Curtis.

[Trevor C.]

What improvements did Honda makeon the 87 250R? What did it look like?

If three wheelers could have enjoyed even 5 more years what would of they been like in your opinion?

[mart]

hey greenhuman heres them 180's you were talkin about i found dads ol pics of it an he wants to know if you still have trailprotrailpro motor from it wink

[greenhuman]

Mart
That's not one of the 180's. That is one of the 310cc engines. They had an XL175 head and cylinder mated to the 90 bottom end. They had a bore of 76mm (up from 50mm) and a modified SL125 crank stroked to 68mm. They could have easily been cranked up to 342cc. As it was , it was a real art to pull start these things. A plastic coated steel cable was used in place of the rope. I used to like running the old balloon tyres for hill climbing, but one of the first times I cranked on the power, the hubs spun and pulled the centres clean out of the tyres. One time I left one idling in the backyard and when I came out a couple of minutes later, the whole trike had bounced clean across the yard and was up against the fence trying to get out. I still have the cases, crank etc.

[atckowalski]

Was the 450r a 2 or 4 stroke?

[oldfart]

The ATC 450R was an air-cooled 2-stroke.

[Trikeaholic]

It's cool to have someone famous on here! :-D


AAAHEMM!! what about me??

[Wickedfinger]

He said famous, not "infamous". :D

[jason200x]

old fart can we please get soem pics of you or anyoe else rideing ANY atc's, not just thepictures n the magazines but like your own pictures, possibley soem pictures of soem modified atc's or some secret atc's..........................think you could stop by the chat room some time? post a time you wan chat in there eevry ones usually in there twords night,,could you give me some rare mods that were for the 200x?

thanks, jason

[Beer_Smurf]

Someone in the chat room wants to talk ATCs?

Wow, that is news.

[Dynofox]

He said famous, not "infamous". :D

LOL :D

[Billy Golightly]

About the '87 ATC250R.... When the bottom fell out of the 3-wheeler market, and Honda had a boatload of them... they were forced to export them to Europe. However, we got our hands on a '87 R up in Canada, which was not part of the CPSC deal. That's how we got a chance to ride one. Photos of prototype ATCs? Sorry no. Part of my deal with many of the test riders was that I was able to look, touch and ride, but no words or photos in the magazine. The ATC450R was a monster, flat scarey to ride. Way too fast for the general public. The ATC200R was really too pipey for me, and a little too small for my 6-1 size.

Here's a little known fact. Pipe builder, Daryl Bassani owns one of the first ATC250Rs ever made. It was used by Team Honda ATC on the original Parker 400 race, and some in Mexicali 250 race, before it broke a rear axle. Daryl got the bike from Wes McCoy in exchange for the favors he did for Team Honda. That ATC has a chassis number like 00007, or lower!

That's all for now. I'll chim in from time to time, with other odds and ends as I recall them. We had a great time doing that magazine, some of the best trips to Mexico you can imagine! Cheers! Dean Kirsten


Dean,

My sincerest welcome to the forum and to the site. As much as I ride I believe I could relate to your reaction when the CPSC decision went down. I would go insane if I was told I was no longer able to ride or race at all. The whole situation left a bad taste in alot of good peoples mouths, and its unfourtante that it happened like that.

My goal as one of the "overseers" of 3WW is to help prevent the misconception about threewheelers to people, and to turn the "Them things will kill you" mentality into "Hey, them things are pretty cool" attitude among the general public and modern day off-road enthusiasts alike. I believe (Or would like to hope) that everyone who is here knows that the way the CPSC layed down the law and let the hammer down was done with inaccurate information, biased testimony, and made with haste without first viewing all the facts or the overall picture. But I'm more or less preaching to the choir here.


Anyways, Extremely pleased and honored to have you among us and look forward to seeing your posts here on the forum in the future.



Billy Golightly

Webmaster-http://www.3wheelerworld.com
Admin-http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com

[Ivan T]

Now to find out where all those 87 250r's went.
Guess the boat never made it to europe.

Will have a quick look round on the way home tonight.

[350xman]

Hi Dean
I sent you a PM can you check it out.
Thanks 350XMAN

[Yardbird]

I'm going to read some of my back issues right now. Just to reminisce about the old days of 3-Wheelers. Welcome to the board and the information from the ole days is awesome!!!!

[Dirtcrasher]

WOW!! Finally someone who was truly involved !!


Hmmm - where you doing a google search and found us??!!

Regardless you can't even begin to imagine how excited some of us are to hear from someone who actually had a role in this sport.

I truly wonder how many people out there could leave us with our jaws hanging open in just one post.

Yep, lots of us can swap forks and calipers but we really don't know squat about what really happened, why and where all the goodies went.

Welcome and thanks for the post!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DIGGER DOG]

Welcome to the site Dean
I remeber back in the day I never liked the trikes as I was a dirt bike nut,
then my friend Art (who I cant track down today) had a little 110 that I rode also a two stroke tri moto 125 I think? I did like to ride them but still really didnt like them and old Art kept on harpin about how he liked to work on them and how easier to work on they were ??? I couldent see it untill I went to buy a 4 wheeler.
Now I have a 350X, 200X, 250SX, ytm 200. and now constantly think of back in the day im 36 now and all the stuff I didnt like in the 80s I love today .I am by far not an ace mechanic nor an expert on A.T.C.s or any other trike I will read your posts religeously. Thanks for joining the site,Im
sure you will bring irreplaceable knowlege to the site and its members.

[RLich8]

When did the CPSC and everyone jump in and finally stop production?

It's really a horrible thing what happened with trikes, i wish they still made them...

[oldfart]

If it is alright with you guys, I would rather not dwell on the CPSC and what happened "outside" the ATC riding world. It turns my stomach when I think about those times, and I rather talk about all the thousands of hours we rode and tested ATCs and never, ever, got hurt.

[oldfart]

Okay, I thought of one cool trip we once took to the Buttercup Sand Dunes near Yuma, AZ..... This would be about 1986 or so, and Tracey Dickson, Stevie Wright and other riders went out to dune our brains out. Tracey "borrowed" a few extra ATC 250R factory bikes from the team trailer (fitted with Paul Turner engines, etc!), pulled the short track tires off, changed the gear and installed paddle tires, and we had a ball. We stopped by a dune and watched some local ATC riders jump this one large dune, when all of a sudden, Marty Hart shows up on his race ATC! Marty watches this guy get about 6' of air, and decided to try one for the troops. Next thing we know Marty flies this ATC like no one else, and everyone cheered! It was unbelievable.

[85bigred250es]

Welcome Dean. Thanks for sharing your awesome stories and info with us. We look forward to hearing more from you :-D

[oldfart]

One of the coolest conversions we ever did was to install a 200S engine/tranny into an ATC200X frame. What we ended up building was a one-off, 200X Automatic! We still used a rope starter from the 200S, and had to make a new brake lever. The top mount was a mismatch from the 200X and 200S. It was super easy to ride, and freaked a lot of people out. Even Honda asked to ride that one.....

[ATC crazy]

One of the coolest conversions we ever did was to install a 200S engine/tranny into an ATC200X frame. What we ended up building was a one-off, 200X Automatic! We still used a rope starter from the 200S, and had to make a new brake lever. The top mount was a mismatch from the 200X and 200S. It was super easy to ride, and freaked a lot of people out. Even Honda asked to ride that one.....

If I'm not misteaken, someone on here has one :? ;)

[350XXX]

blazerone22 has a 200x automatic. his 14yr old daughter rides it. he built it himself. i have included a link to his website where there is a picture of it and his other toys. http://oregontrikes.20megsfree.com/index.html

[Darius1502]

Dean,

I remember that issue of 3 Wheeling when you guys did that. It was a great job and idea.

Could you tell me more about the ATC 450R you rode? Was it the factory prototype test model that Marty Hart talked about? Or was it a racing one-off model just for the racing guys.

Do you have any pics you could post?

What did you think of the 86 Tri Z versuse the other 250cc 3 wheelers? Interesting in 86 ATV News had a shootout as you may recall and crowed the Tri Z the winner.

Was the 86 that much improved over the 85?

Thanks a million and your work really made my childhood years memorable...thanks a million for the memories!

Darius

[Kilborg]

whats up, Deano?

I'm one of the younger readers, but I remember seeing your name in alot of stuff when I was young. Im just about 19 now and I got alot of old mags from a freind and its cool to be able to visually remember when the mags genuinley interested me (I dont really care about quads). It's always cool to see some of the old 3 wheeler guys come to a site that some enthusiast that met on the 'net made and give us props.

[Darius1502]

Admin:

can you guys make this a sticky. I would be great to have a collection of 3 wheeler stories, tech data, and information from Dean. He is really one of the few insiders who actually worked in the industry.

Shoot...he even rode an 87 250R....we need to keep this topic alive!!

Darius

[jason200x]

I agree. Where is dean? Haven't heard from him in a while. Id like to know what he al did to his trikes performance wise and if he is interested in getign back into trikeing. Im shure someone would be more then happy to hook him up with a good deal on here.

[trailboss]

please!!!!! tell us about the first tiger 500 test!!!! i remember buying that issue, i was drooling over the tiger!!! that test must have been amazing!!!

[oldfart]

Sorry, I've been busy working on Hot VWs magazine deadline..... I didn't have a chance to ride the Tiger 500 race-version. I think Craig Corda did most of the test riding in Plaster City, CA (near El Centro). I remember the photo session, out by the mud hills.

[trailboss]

what were the differences between the race version of the tiger and the public version?

[oldfart]

On the Tiger 500, in Typical "Corda" mode, the porting would be much wilder, larger carb, hand-built pipe and different gearing. Basically, making a monster 3-wheeler, that much more radical!

[oldfart]

Here's one for you Tri-Z fans. When Yamaha first released the new bodywork.... white and red, instead of yellow and black, Europe was still behind times. When Brett Driscoll got a chance to ride a Tri-Z for the Yamaha factory in Holland, we took all of the late plastic on the airplane, and when we arrived in Rotterdam, we switched all of plastic, spray bomb painted the frame red, instead of yellow, to make their trike look like a new one. After the race, we took all of the new plastic off, and returned it to its original colors. So, everyone in Euorpe thought that we air-freighted a brand new Tri-Z for this race! Fun stuff. I still have the red-white-blue Team Yamaha Works mechanic's suit that they gave us, in my closet.

[CHAINSAW]

lol.. fooled em good!! Definatly gotta hear some more Tri Z stories!! Thanks for the world of knowledge you bring with you.. its nice to hear it from someone who has his facts straight, intead of a 14 year old with a yahoo half-ass truth search engine.
I was 10 when the whole "3 wheelers will kill you" thing came down. We were talking about it last night in chat, and it brought up a lot of old memories.... to bad we dont have a time machine huh?

[trailboss]

hi dean!! thanx for the tiger info! can you tell us any stories about dean sundahl or mike coe, those guy's rocked!!! i was 16 in 85 and used to drool over the race machines but never got to know the riders well.

[82atc110]

Dean, thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions. I was too young to really be crazy into the ATC scene so much of the testing information you have provided is new to me. My first exposure to trikes came from some A-hole neigbor kids who liked to tear up our yard. However the experience remained seared into my fragil little and I grew to become a trike freak myself. I look forward to your posts and I can't wait to hear any new information you have.

Mark

[jason200x]

Hey dean, did you ever think of getting back into threewheelers? Whated you sell yours for? Did you get soem kind of discounte when you bough yours?

I wana hear a story abotu the 200r's, was there any other trikes thats would ahve been a differen class cc, other then the 200,250,350? like was there ever a 300cc thre wheeler?

[oldfart]

Jason, if you rememeber, the Honda 250R air-cooled engines had an optional Hondaline 300cc kit. When Team Honda wanted to race in the open class, at AATVA events, and SCORE, they sometimes used these kits to up the engine size (Dean Sundahl, Wes Arnold and Mark Wiexeldorer rode with them). There was also the Mugen kit as well, but I don't think anyone on Team Honda ever raced with one (other than guys like Brett Driscoll).

The ATC 200R was built for one purpose and one purpose only, to compete with the Tecate small stroke 200cc engines in AATVA races. They, Team Honda, couldn't compete against the faster Tecates with the ATC 200X (four-stroke), so they had Japan built a handful of these cool trikes. IF things hadn't got so bad with the CPSC, I really think that Honda would have put this ATC into production. Dean

[Billy Golightly]

Dean,

Can you give us any insight on the 87 350Xs and 250Rs? Its probably the oldest debate here on the forum. Some believe that they were infact produced and sold at dealerships but just in very small quanities. And others believe they never made it from the factory before Honda decided to stop them. Personally I find the later rather odd because there are plenty of 87 200Xs, Big Reds, 250SXs, and 125Ms.

I've also heard that Yamaha had decided to stop the Tri-Z after 86 even before things started going sour. Any truth to that?


Billy

[oldfart]

It is my firm belief that the '87 ATC 350X and 250R ARE out there, but in very, very small numbers. Mostly in Canada, and Europe. I seem to recall a rider who lived in South Dakota, who wanted a '87 R, so he drove up to Canada, bought one, and brought it back to ride. There was a published story that came out in the paper, that manufacturers like Honda, did in fact, ship 3-wheelers to Europe to find a home for unsellable units. That shook up a lot of people at the time, saying they were selling "dangerous" ATCs to unknowning buyers in foreign countries.

I also know that manufacturers such as Honda, will scrap hundreds of units for whatever reason. I have seen some awesome preproduction ATVs crushed, just to make sure they never get out in circulation. Some did anyway.... wink We had BW200 #3 for the longest time. Bassini, has the earliest known ATC250R in existance (priviately owned). We had a very, very early Tri-Z. And so on. Dean

[jason200x]

do you have any old phottos of any trikes? was there any ever talk about a 400cc or 300 cc trike? iv heard tlak that sthey were thiking of a 50cc trike to any of this true?

[Trikeaholic]

[quote="oldfart"]Sor. I think Craig Corda did most of the test riding in Plaster City, CA quote]

Craig is the man! I talked to him on the phone, he gave me a factory front fender for mine, and an autographed photo of the 500 he used to race, also a copy of the mag article, and a few NOS Tiger decals for my restorartion. A super nice guy. HRC200X found him for me, so props go to him for his net detective work.

[Billy Golightly]

It is my firm belief that the '87 ATC 350X and 250R ARE out there, but in very, very small numbers. Mostly in Canada, and Europe. I seem to recall a rider who lived in South Dakota, who wanted a '87 R, so he drove up to Canada, bought one, and brought it back to ride. There was a published story that came out in the paper, that manufacturers like Honda, did in fact, ship 3-wheelers to Europe to find a home for unsellable units. That shook up a lot of people at the time, saying they were selling "dangerous" ATCs to unknowning buyers in foreign countries.

I also know that manufacturers such as Honda, will scrap hundreds of units for whatever reason. I have seen some awesome preproduction ATVs crushed, just to make sure they never get out in circulation. Some did anyway.... ;) We had BW200 #3 for the longest time. Bassini, has the earliest known ATC250R in existance (priviately owned). We had a very, very early Tri-Z. And so on. Dean


Dean,

Thats good to know that you believe the 87 250R and 350X are out there. A user of the forum a while back found some part #'s for the 87 plastics, and had called Honda of America and gotten stalled from the get go. If my mind serves me right I believe he finally got ahold of someone who said they could sell him the plastics only if they had a coresponding VIN for that year because they didn't want parts for that year getting out to people who didn't own one. Interesting way of patrolling things.


Any chance that real early Tri-Z had a YPVS (Yamaha Powervalve System) on it?

Billy

[hrc200x]

oldfart: Where did you hear about this person from south dakota finding a '87 R? Back when the Internet was new I remember seeing an ad on www.traderonline.com, know known as www.atvtraderonline.com that said Wanted: '87 Canadian model 250r, but can't remember where the guy was from. Possibly the same guy?

[oldfart]

Yes, very possibly the same rider. There could only be so many ATC riders in South Dakota who were looking for an '87 R in Canada? His name was Dave Andahl.....

[jason200x]

So Dean, Have you ever hought of gettign back in to trike rideing?

[metal mulisha]

dean what bike did you own personaly and if you could possibly choose one what was your favorite bike ever? also do you know if any 87' 250rs where actualy sold from a u.s dealer in 86' or 87? thanx for your time. i know your getting alot of questions! :D

[oldfart]

Metal, over the course of ten years or so, I had just about every ATVs ever made available to us for testing.... At one time, we had over 35 ATVs in our backroom! Most of them, on loan. But, we always would fight over the Rs, and leave the wimpy ones back at the ranch. I personally owned; US90, ATC 90, ATC 185S, 200X (many), 250R (many), 350X, Tri-Z, and a number of Quads (boo, hiss). I think I rode the 200X and 350X the most, followed up by the Tri-Z. Throw in a 550 Jet Ski as well.

No on U.S. Honda dealers selling any '87 Rs, sorry.


Best Honda P.R. trip ever, was the Honda Fourtrax 4x4, on the Rubican Trail. I'll save that story for later. Dean

[jason200x]

Dean, ever thought of gettign back in to atving?

[oldfart]

Jason, no, not really, but I miss going out into the dunes during the winter and riding with friends. I miss the excerise, camp fires and cook outs. But that's about it. When you do something like test and work on ATVs 24/7 for ten years, and when it was during such a great time for ATCs, going back is not very appealing. Sorry, but that's why I haven't rode a 3-wheeler or Quad since 1988 or so. I think the staff of 3Wheeling (Phil Beckman, Tim Orchard, Matt Hildenberg, Bruce Simurda), and test riders like Tracey Dickson and his dad Bob Dickson, Brett Driscoll and his family, were a super team that work together to produced a superior product. Jim Wright (the late publisher of Wright Publishing), allowed us to do anything we wanted. He backed our race team in Baja and other SCORE races, he paid for the days in the dunes, lobster diners in Baja, and just about anything else you could ask for. It was a great time! Dean

[mad_max]

Great Stories Dean! Thanks for sharing them with us.

(If you wanted to run for president I'd bet you'd get a vote from most everybody on this forum :-D )

[jason200x]

Do you have any pictures from rides or off some project atc's you could post for us?

[oldfart]

Jason, I have taken well over 500,000 photos of ATVs..... Just look at some of the old issues of 3Wheeling.

[Dan Tenn]

Heres a question for you oldfart. There have been some sightings of a KXT 125 piston listed on a couple different places. Is this a typo for a KX 125 piston or was Kaw actually going to produce a 125 T3 ? If they were, did you happen to see any ?

Thanks alot.

[Billy Golightly]

Dean,

When you guys were testing aftermarket parts on trikes, any thing in particular that really sticks out in your mind as something that was really cool and a step above the rest?

Billy

[oldfart]

Looking back at the four-stroke Hondas, I was always impressed with Curtis Sparks, and his parts. I remember one week, we were testing one cam after another, and then, different carbs for the 200X. After trying everything we could get our hands on, we put his cam and carb on, and that combination was awesome. His mixing of a Mukuni carb with a Kehein needle was original, and worked! His cams were great, and up to the time we started making our own race cams for Baja racing (thanks to Bob Dickson and Crower Cams), his was the best around. I have the utmost respect for Curtis and what he knows about four-strokes. Dean

[atcmatt]

Hey Oldfart,

This is a bit of a diffrent question, but for all us utility trikers. Was there ever talk about maunfacturing a big utility trike other than the bigred 250 and 200's.

Thanks,

Matt

[oldfart]

I am almost sure that we rode a 350cc powered Big Red somewhere along the lines. Dean

[trailboss]

can you give us the scoop on the 450r prototype?

[oldfart]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Honda built one prototype (that I know of) and asked a number of riders to give it a whirl (1984?). A number did, and gave them some input, most thought it was fun and fast, but way, way too much for the average rider. And that was about it. It was built from ATC 250R air-cooled parts, with some changes here and there (swingarm, wheelbase, forks, tank, beefed up frame..... nothing special to look at, just a test mule. Dean

[trailboss]

the cr 500 is a rocketship to the hospital,but they still produced it.i am surprised that honda didn't put more effort into the 450r.

[atcmatt]

Oldfart, can you give us some insight to the 350 powered bigred please?

Thanks,
Matt

[Brian313]

Dean,

It is good to hear from you. I was there from the first issue, and I always enjoyed 3Wheeling much more than any of the me-too rags that came after.

Two questions:

1. Do you know what happened to Mark Wiexeldorfer and his company, Wax On? I've looked on the web and cannot find any reference to him after about 1990.

2. Would you consider telling Bob "Ace" Williams' story? It may prove to be beneficial to some of the younger three wheeler fans.

Thank you for your time,
Brian

[oldfart]

I bumped into Mike Coe today (former Team Honda ATC), at a San Diego swap meet. He still looks the same, and now works on '60s Fords as a hobby. Mark Weixeldorfer did Wax-On for as long as the 3-wheeler market was strong. His dad and him, ran a family business called Lyon's Electronics in National City, CA, and that began to take up most of his time. I think once Mark stopped riding ATCs for the factory, his interest went elsewhere, and since most of his products were for 3-wheelers, his portion of the market began to dry up. That's my take on things anyway.
Ace.... That's another long story. I will tell that some other time. Dean

[metal mulisha]

why, who is ace and whats the story?

[oldfart]

I first met Bob "Ace" Williams in the late seventies, when the ATC market was first getting into aftermarket frames and racing (within the San Diego area). Of all the guys that raced ATC90s (up to 180cc), Bob was the most incredible on the race track. He had the style and often would "play" with other riders until the end of the race. He usually raced at Speedway 117, near Brown's Field (Chula Vista). Flat track was his deal.
Bob worked for a number of shops including Big Al, and Pauter Machine. He helped design a number of parts for the early ATCs, including chassis and engine parts. He had an idea for everything.

Bob joined up with Broc Glover and Billy Talley to create 3B Lightning, a Chula Vista-based shop for Yamaha 3wheelers (RD 400s, triples, YZ 125, and YZ 250s).

When the ATC 250R was first introduced in late 1980, Honda asked 3Wheeling magazine to put together some names to run the SCORE Parker 400 Off-Road race in February 1981. Some of the names that were mentioned included Mark Wiexeldorer, Mike Chester, Dean Sundahl, Bob Williams, and others. Honda was going to race two ATC 250Rs for one lap at Parker, and we came up with two teams to do this historical event. Bob was one of those riders. Needless to say, Honda and Wes McCoy were impressed, so, sights were set on the SCORE Riverside Off-Road Championships set for that August (a massive event).

So, during the spring/summer of 1981, Honda gave Ace anything he wanted to begin to riding for them. Bob raced the Mexicali 250, and began to build an "OPEN" ATC for Riverside. This was a 450cc powered engine, built into a custom frame that was built by 3B Lightning.

Just about that time, Team Honda ATC was forming, and Honda was getting close to signing Bob as one of their star riders. Dean Sundahl and Mark Wiexeldorfer had already signed, Mike Chester had broken his arm in testing for Parker, but was going to be ready for Riverside. So, he signed as well. Wes Arnold was also part of the team (he was an employee of Honda during that time).

So then it happened.... Just weeks before the big SCORE Off-Road race at Riverside, and HUGE media coverage, ATCs were being prepped, and over at 3B, Ace had just about finished his Open ATC. The story goes, that late one Friday night, he had got this project on 3 wheels, and running, but wasn't quite complete with all of the details (paint, etc). Still, Ace wanted to see how things worked, so he pushed it out the back door, fired it up, and took it for that fateful ride behind the shop, into the dark. Ace went down the alley, tried to make the left-hand turn at the end, missed judged it, and lost control, maybe, and ran head-first into one of those folding metal industrial garage doors that roll up. No helmet.

Ace was rushed to the hospital, and was in a coma...... SCORE Riverside came and went without him, and so did the next 15 years or so. Ace never came out of his coma. Bob Williams died a few years back, and missed the best years of the ATC/ATV industry, and his life.

Of all the guys that I have watched race, and build ATVs, Bob was the most talented of all of the them. I once asked Bob if he was going to improve the 1981 ATC 250R, what would he do? Bob said 35mm forks, 3-inch longer swingarm, and install a link...... Look at the later ATC 250Rs. He was right on the money, and that was spring of 1981.

We will never know what contributions Ace would have made to our industry if, that accident would not have happened. You ask about the ATC 450R? Bob could have done wonders for that project. Was Ace a better rider than Dean Sundahl? At the time, yes, but later on, no one will ever know. A helmet would have made the difference.

[bbechtel16]

Wow....really makes you stop and think huh? :(

oldfart: Just wanted to express my thanks also to you for your contribution to the forums. I was just born in the hayday of it all ('86), so its great to hear stories about the good old days.

[Brian313]

Dean,

Thank you for sharing Bob's story. There are lots of helmet/no helmet debates on these boards. Maybe this story will change some minds.

Take care,
Brian

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Dean , Keep it coming....Wow, the memories you are bringing back...
I remember reading about Bob "ACE" Williams and also remember that he built a JAWA powered trike. A methanol burning, single speed motor from a speedway bike.
Refresh my memory or correct me if I am wrong regarding the status of the Old Team Honda guys.
Marty Hart is in Louisiana and active in the Utility/Hunting quad market.
Dean Sundahl is still in California with his drywall/construction company and will still run an occasional desert revent.
Curtis Sparks - Still active building motors and probably loving the 4-stroke revival.
Mike Coe you covered a few posts ago.
Mark "Wax" Weixeldorfer is doing what now?
I dont remember if it was Tracy Dickson or Steve Wright that vanished from society. Didn't one of them take part in the lawsuits vs. Honda?

I have lots of info on the ex-Kawi guys if you want.

Thanks again for sharing.

Curtis.

[oldfart]

Tracey Dickson is working for Falcon Race cars and doing composite engineering with carbon fiber and kevlar materials. Steve Wright owns and runs a number of clothing/surf shop stores and is very successful. I'm not sure about Wax, but it is probably automotive-related. Dean

[atcmatt]

Thanks for that information oldfart. Since i was born in 88 i missed the good years and its interesting to hear your stories. Can you give me any insight in that 350es bigred?

Thanks,

Matt

[250SX_rider]

Hi,
I would like to know: What's the craziest trike you have ever tested? (In terms of performance) and...do you have some things we don't know about the 250SX ?

Thanks

[fishy_inn]

Thanks for all the information you've given! I was wondering, how come Yamaha, and Kawasaki didn't get into the big bore 4 stroke sport market? Once again, I really aprreciate you taking your time and offering us information about the whole trike scene.

[oldfart]

Craziest 3wheeler? That would have to be a converted CR450R (motorcycle), into a 3wheeler... I can't recall the builder of this conversion, but we met him out at Glamis for a test ride. One look at the construction, and seat height!, and we had our doubts. Test rider Tim Orchard looked at it, and then me, and I knew we were in trouble. So, fearless Tim took it out for a short ride.... Five minutes later, came back to camp, took off his helmet, and said, "We're done." The owner said what was next? Tim repeated, "We're done, I won't ride that bike any more, let alone jump it!" Basically, it was the biggest piece of ##it ever built and your basic death trap. It was top-heavy, wouldn't turn, no low end power, geared to the moon, and a horrible seat height and shape (you couldn't move around on the seat to shift your body weight). That may have been the shortest test ride ever, for us.

The other worse-ever was a ATC 200X fitted with a full roll cage by some idiot who thought he could get rich by retro-fitting every ATC on the planet with his creation. We met out at Pismo Beach with some clowns from the CPSC and they wanted to see it put to (good) use. No one, I mean no one, included the inventor, could ride that ATC in the dune. Mike Bishop fell over on a dune, and beat his brains out during the roll-over. It was a real joke. I think there was a seat belt as well. Those were the days.

There was also a TZ-750 powered 3wheeler that they asked us to ride on the hill..... Oh, brother. Dean

[ATCnut]

Hey oldfart

I have really enjoyed reading your posts, keep it up.

I was poking around at servicehonda a while back, and did the attached search. Do you have any comment about the last line, which is a part number for a owners manual for a 85 ATC500R. There are a couple of other interesting items listed, 88 250es and 87 350X.

I found the same listing at partsfiche too.

[BigGreenMachine]

Thanks for letting is see into the past oldfart! Awsome stories. Your a lucky man to have been part of so many groundbreaking events.

[oldfart]

Very interesting....... I can only speculate that this is a typo, and they really meant to say 250R, instead of 500R. Of course, you could always order that part number.... I never heard of ANY official ATC 500R project, just the 450R air-cooled one.

I remember seeing a story in an old Hot Rod Magazine, back in the mid-seventies, that showed a Yamaha 4-wheeler, called an MTV (ride in, not on, like an Odyssey). The editors took it out and did a few donuts for the camera. When I asked Yamaha about the article, years later, no one knew anything about it. The moral is, the manufacturers often change their minds at any given moment. Dean

[atcmatt]

I heard somewhere that atc's were still in production in 88' in uk? :? ?

I only HEARD this.....

Matt

[250rAL]

Why did they stop publishing ATV Sports?

[oldfart]

Why did we stop ATVSports/3Wheeling? Good question. First off, the current ATV Sport has nothing to do with us. Next, at the time we killed the book, advertising was low, since most manufacturers didn't want to advertise anything, they weren't sure of that would be legal (then or in the immediate future). The market was really upside down in terms of direction. We couldn't sell a book marketed to hunters and farmers... And the dune scene was changing back to sandrails. I think the entire staff was unhappy with the industry's direction, or lack of. ATV racing was on a slide as well. Team Honda ATV, and Team Kawaski had both gone away. AATVA was going down the tubes and the AMA was stepping in. Mickey Thompson Off-Road racing stopped, and on and on.

For me, I began to hate the perception that many outsiders had of our market. That we rode "killers" and how could you be so dumb? I was called into countless court cases, where people would be sueing Honda or Yamaha, and asked us to come in as experts (yeah right), to prove their case; why a train hit their love one, while they were riding triple on an ATC 200, drunk, at night, on railroad property, without helmets, of course. Get the picture? Or, why if you grab the front brake (hard) on an ATC200X going downhill on a soft dune, would you go over the bars? What is wrong with this model????? Eh. We all began to dread coming into work. And our boss knew it. So, we all decided to work on something better for all of us, and we gave the market to Dirt Wheels and 3x4 Action. It was sad, since we all worked so hard on that book, but we were egar to put it behind us, and go on. That is why I haven't rode an ATV since that day. Dean

[bbechtel16]

That kind of crap really pisses me off. I don't blame you for walking away.

[Wickedfinger]

I think you should start it back up as "Vintage ATVing" or something like that. Now that would be cool.

[COOKIE]

Hey Dean,

Why did honda stop producing the pilot? It seamed like such a vast improvement over the older FL models.

[bbechtel16]

I believe it was simply a finacial decision. They cost so much that no one was buying them hence they made no money.

[ATC crazy]

Hmmmmm....1988 ATC250ES. Probably a typo...but it sure gets ya thinking.

[oldfart]

About the Honda Pilot. I remember going on the Honda press junket to the Oregon Sand dunes, and according to Honda, they were trying to tap into the dune buggy market. But, with only one person on-board, and the unit cost, for $6000ish, you could buy a decent VW-powered 2-seater dune buggy that would do circles around the Pilot. I think the dealers didn't like flooring such a large vehicle, and overall, they didn't sell well. Interesting, that Honda ended up using both the Odyssey and Pilot names for their SUVs later on in life. Dean

[Billy Golightly]

Dean I'm sorry that this is such a trivial question, but I just gotta know...


Twist or thumb?!?!? :D

[COOKIE]

Hey Howdy, how about giving Dean a custom title. I for one think he deserves it.

[threewheelin-feelin]

dean i want u to know that was a beautiful storie and i love the fact the u were i it so deeply u can tell us all the things weve been dieing to know . me being 16 i was born in 87 and didnt get to see the glori years of 3wheelers and 4wheelers for that matter 4wheelers havent been the same since then and i just dont see how it is fair us loosing 3wheelers and having to deal with guidlines on 4wheelers because of some stupid ppl that r greedy taking the chance to get rich quick and not just them but the cpsc the way i see it they have to be banning thing or there would be no reason for them to be here and they would have to close down so they just find things to try to bann but hey what do i know im a stupid teenager i guess and the stupid trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro holes geting on them doubleing up trippleing up ive seen 4 at a time there stupid drunk and in the dark and they do something stupid showing off for friends or girls lol. and get hurt or killed so them and or there family try to get rich quick pisses me off but man its cool to meet u u can proble teach us all something lol -D

[oldfart]

Three-Wheeling Feelin..... They invented periods years ago. I ran out of breath reading your post.....
shock
Twist or thumb? Thumb all the way! I never rode motorcycles before we started 3Wheeling, so, I never had to reteach myself to not put my feet down in turns, or use a twist throttle. When we did the 24 Hours in Plaster City in '87, we used a box-stocker TRX250R for a reason. We wanted to prove that it could be done without any mods, including the thumb throttle. Oh, it hurt after the third round of laps, but I always liked the thumb throttle, and understood why it was used on 3-wheelers.

When you think of 3Wheeling Magazine, I would like you guys to imagine being paid to ride and test ATCs, being able to go out to the dunes any time you wanted, and someone else was paying for it. Going racing in Baja or short-course racing Odysseys, and doing it for fun, but with a budget. We had the best job you can think of, the best boss, and I think it showed. We even stole a few guys from Dirt Wheels and ATV News, because they could see the difference in how other publishers treated their staffs. Since I still work for Wright Pubishing and with Bruce Simurda on Hot VWs, we often talk about 3Wheeling.... Get times! Dean

[COOKIE]

So your Dean K. Tech Editor for Hot VWs? You gonna make it up to Sac for Bug-O-Rama 53? Be cool to meet you. Maybe I'll bring one of the air scoops from my X for an autograph. Hey check out my website below of my baja bug in progress.

[oldfart]

I can probably dig up some old 3Wheeling stickers. Anyone interested?

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Dean, Mark me down!!!

Curtis

[Dan Tenn]

I can probably dig up some old 3Wheeling stickers. Anyone interested?

Absolutely :-D

[Trikeaholic]

HECK YES!!!!! I got lotsa trikes that need them!

[Billy Golightly]

Absolutely!

[md1985250r]

I can probably dig up some old 3Wheeling stickers. Anyone interested?

I would love to have a 3 Wheeling sticker.....please :-D

[XFR_Dozer]

hey Dean. At one time or another you guys got hands on with each of the factory 250 racebikes. Which do you think was the fastest or most responsive? After riding Heidi Decks kaw , and Rodney Gentrys hondas , I think it was the yamaha. Mendenhalls bike was a rocket.

[350XXX]

i'm up for some stickers! glad to see ya here. been reading this post since the first day. great to hear from someone on the inside of the business. i used to love the mag and hated that you quit producing it, but i understand why now. you still keep in contact with the guys from the mag?

[Yamahammer490]

Hi Dean,

At the risk of being overly redundant, welcome to the board and thanks for your contributions. I was one of your subscribers way back when and have enjoyed reading your posts. I would very much like a sticker for both of my trikes.

Lastly, if I may be so bold, I have an idea that I think a lot of us would find really cool. I know that you're probably very busy but it would be great if you could have a monthly guest article on the web site. Maybe just a scanned article from the magazine along with some of your commentary.

Thanks!

[Howdy]

I can probably dig up some old 3Wheeling stickers. Anyone interested?

I would be Honored to have one ( or more ) of those stickers!!
Howdy

[RichinMO]

Dean I'd pay ya for some 3wheeling stickers for my trikes. I was 14 in 1985 when I got my new 200x. I watched 3wheelers rise and fall and still love them today. Have 2 of them now, an '85 250R and '86 350X. My restored 250R would shine with some stickers on it. I'll even put them in the same spot as 3wheeling did for its test back in the day.

[3WheelsForever]

I would also be interested in 1 or 2 of those stickers!

[ATCnut]

I would also love one of your stickers.

[2strokepwer]

I would like to buy a few stickers to.

[tecatecrazy]

If you have any left I would like to have one also! lol. btw I have really enjoyed reading this thread oldfart. It is by far the best posted in quite a while. ---Joe 8)

[mad_max]

Dean,

Thanks for all the good memories. I actually ordered 2 of the yellow and red stickers (I believe it was for 50 cents and a SASE) from 3wheeling magazine back in the early 80's and put them on the rear fenders of my '73 ATC70.
If you have any to sell I'd buy some!
Thanks

[oldfart]

Oh, guys here's the drill. If you want two 3Wheeling Magazine vintage stickers (large yellow ones), read 2, I will do this.... Send me a self-address, stamped envelope, throw in a buck (for my hard labor and gas in driving to the post office @ $2.17 a gallon), and I will send you some. This is a limited time offer, no discounts to Dirt Wheels readers, and will last only as long as I can find old stickers up in the rafters of my garage... If you want more, then figure two-fer-a-buck. My mailing address is

Dean Kirsten
3Wheeling Magazine Guru
1311 York Drive
Vista, CA 92084

I will let you know when I reach the bottom of my ATC sticker box. Okay? Dean

[oldfart]

About the fastest/quickest 250 3-wheelers.... I felt that the Paul Turner ATC 250Rs had the most grunt and torque of the bunch. I could ride them the easiest. The Kawaski Tecate was a handful and made big power up stairs. I didn't care for the vibration. The Yamaha was a little weak I thought. Harry Klemm's Kawaski motors ran really smooth, and Bassani's 350 Banshee was a great combination.

We once rode a Toomey 350 and it was a real handful. We were doing some radar testing out at El Mirage, and Bruce took the bike all the way to the end of the lakebed, to get a good running start. I held the radar gun at what I estimated would be the direction he would be coming at me. I first heard the buzz, then the radar gun began to make noise, and the very first reading I saw on the gun, even before I could see the bike was 86mph! Bruce went by me like a bullet! Great fun. Dean

[XFR_Dozer]

thx for the response Dean :) im must admit its very cool to chat with somebody about " the good old days" . What did you west coast guys think of the infiltration of old bike riders like Gary Denton and Don Turk into our sport ? Also , I always thought that the combination of TT and MX styles diluted our sport and hindered it from becoming a big time racing series. ( before the collapse) This might be an exclusive east coast view , but TT races are really boring to watch . Any thoughts?

[oldfart]

Gary Denton and Don Turk really made names for themselves when Suzuki sponsored a series of flat-track races at the old Ascot Raceway (Gardena, CA). Larry (the mouth) Huffman was the announcer. These were on cable TV a LOT, and everyone saw them. Denton cleaned up, and made a lot of money and air time. That's what really got him into the spotlight. He also did well at some of the Mickey Thompson Off-Road races as well. Again, more TV time. TT was fine, but I like jumps! Dean

[atcmatt]

Hey Dean, I want some stickers but im in Australia. How would i go about giving you $5 Australian how many stickers would that buy me?

Thanks,

Matt

[oldfart]

Matt, no problem. I can always use Australian dollars, since I am going there this November. So, just bolt-in that fiver, and stick a stamp on it and I'll take care of you. Dean

[XFR_Dozer]

heya Dean, what was your favorite racetrack? and doyou have a story for it?

[ATCnut]

Hey Dean

How big are the stickers? I do not want you to have to fold them to get them in the envelope.

[oldfart]

Those original 3Wheeling stickers measure 6-1/2 x 2-1/2. These were the larger of the two sizes.... Dean

[oldfart]

At the time, I think San Jose was the most exciting, because it was the AATVA final of the year. Very fast. The SCORE Riverside Off-Road Championships was great as well, you needed both horsepower and suspension to win that one. Other ones that come to mind was Columbus, Ohio, and the Beach Race at Holland was really cool! Dean

[md1985250r]

hey dean,
ever hear of a track in west virginia called "dream mountain"?
thanks ,
greg

[COOKIE]

Dean,

Here is a topic that keeps comming up here. Do you know of any shops that still build rear swing arms for the 350X? Or shops that will custom make them? I would like one thats about 2" longer than stock, but there are a bunch of people here that want all sorts of different sizes. Any suggestions?

[md1985250r]

:oops:

[oldfart]

On the swingarms.... I would try a shop that has been around long enough, to have worked on the ATCs when they were new, maybe somebody like Trinity Cycle. Guys like Westcoast got into Jet Skis and dropped all of their ATV stuff years ago.

A few weeks ago, I was at the annual Big 3 Swap Meet in San Diego. This is a general auto swap meet, but since it is in San Diego (home of the ATC), there was a ton of old 3wheeler stuff there. You gotta know that there is plenty of spares still laying around in this area. Why not check traderonline.com, and check the motorcycle/ATV section. You might find some bargains in the San Deigo area. Dean

[Darius1502]

Dean what did you think of the 86 Tri Z versus the 85 model?

That year I believe that ATV News claimed the 86 Z won its 250 3 wheel shootout.

Was that an accurate call or do you think ATV News had another motive or was not correct?

I would love to hear your opinion since alot of people say the 86 Z was much improved while others say it was not much different. I have an 86 Z but have never ridden an 85. Was it good enought to beat the 86 R?

Your contributions are fantastic...they bring back alot of happy memories...thank you!!

Darius

[oldfart]

Which Tri-Z was better? Hell, I don't recall what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone what I tested 17 years ago. Sorry, I just don't remember those changes. I would have to reread some of our articles printed on the subject, to try and remember what we did back then. Dean aka "OldFart".

[XFR_Dozer]

lol aint senility a kick in the pants. j/k dean. :)

[oldfart]

When all of the bad publicity began to erode the 3-wheeler market, sales of 3Wheeling went right down the tubes, and so did ads. The people who liked 3-wheelers stopped reading the 3-wheeler magazines, and as the Quads came into the market, our readership did not increase (even after changing the name of the magazine to ATV Sports). I always thought that people who began riding ATCs were a little different, or came from a different background, that the ones that really took to Quads. I thought that people with more motorcycle background liked Quads better than 3-wheelers. Dean

[250r REBELS]

Yeah, that bad publicity did destroy the 3-wheeler market and created a bad influence on new rider’s and in our society as well, that’s why we still have them to proof they were wrong, because 3-wheelers are safe and more fun, or else we wouldn’t own them today. The sport still lives! So get your 250 ready for BAJA or GLAMIS.

[82atc110]

Dean, do you remember anything about the Honda Fat Cats, Yamaha Big Wheels or the Missile Engineering 250R kits? I never hear much about them anywhere.

Thanks Mark

[oldfart]

3Wheeling Stickers have been sent out to the following so far

Flack
Hays
Heinrichs
Wilson
Hechel
Maxwell
Savage
Dull
Bishop

Now about the BW and Fat Cat.... Since I never really rode dirt bikes much before the ATC, those kind of ATVs didn't feel that comfortable. I liked the BW 200 the times I rode it, but putting down my foot and leg was against everything the ATC rider knows. I also rode a modified version with larger forks and more power. The Honda Fat Cat came out after I stopped riding..... The Missile Engineering conversions were hot for awhile, but like so much in this industry, things changes. Dean

[82atc110]

Thanks for the reply Dean, I had no idea that the Missile Engineerig kits were popular at all. They look like they are a little spookey to ride but I have never had the chance to even ride a 250R.

[Beer_Smurf]

Dean,
Thanks for the stickers.
A 3Wheeling sticker will be the crowing jewel for my Tecate restoration.

Did you ever expect to have the celebrity status you have here?

Thanks again for your work at the Mag.
Reading some of your articles it is great to hear an honest opinion of a product.
Dirt Wheels sometimes reads like nothing but one big advertisement.

Thanks again.

[md1985250r]

Dean,
Thank you for the stickers!!! Now i got to clean the r up to put em on!! :D
Greg

[RichinMO]

Got my stickers today! WOOHOO! Thanks Dean!

[Brian313]

Dean,

Thank you for the decals.

Brian

[Dan Tenn]

Dean,

Awesome stickers, thanks again.

Dan

:clap

[oldfart]

More 3Wheeling stickers going out today to

Shively
Flur
Henderson
Wilson
Bardshar (you owe me a buck!)

By the way, these stickers are the first version we made. The later ones, had an additional color ring around the type. The original ones date back to 1980!

I still have more available.... Dean

[3WheelsForever]

Dean Thanks alot for the stickers! They are sweet.

[mad_max]

Got the stickers on. Thanks Dean!

Did a little decal trimming for the 250SX and alot of trimming on the 70...

I seem to recall some of the 3wheeling stickers I saw on ride test vehicles in the magazine had been trimmed all the way around the lettering, do you recall if these were actually made this way or were they done by hand?

[oldfart]

Yes, most of our test riders, and the staff, had to hand-cut the stickers with an X-acto knife, before we placed them on our helmets. It took a little time and patients, but it was something we wanted to do "for the cool look". I still have my Troy Lee-painted helmet with those stickers on them.

[mad_max]

Dean, in an earlier post you made the comment that "San Diego was home of the ATC" can you elaborate on this?

What was the deciding factor in starting the 3wheeling magazine?

Thanks
Mike

[oldfart]

San Diego is where most of the high-performance parts came from. This is where ATC racing began, and with the sand dunes only 1-1/2 hours away, the best riding area in the world was close at hand. Racing created a need for better frames, aluminum wheels, exhaust, big-bore kits, cam, etc. The sand duners needed ice chest racks, chrome goodies, sand tires, and more power. This is where is all began.

3Wheeling started through the pages of Hot VWs. Our yearly look at sand duning began to include ATCs as pit bikes. Soon, we added a buyer's guide, look at custom ATCs, and the market boomed. In late 1979, we decided to do another magazine, and with Honda's blessing (since no motorcycle book would touch a 3wheeler!), they were more than happy to support us with advertising. I moved over to do 3Wheeling, since I had a pretty good idea of where it was going. And that's how it all started. Dean

[82atc110]

I am stuffing an envelope in the mail box today, thanks!

[Jeb]

Dean (oldfart), what can you tell us about Suzuki's pre-quadracer 3wheel race team if they had one??

Thanks!

[oldfart]

Eddie Sanders (Saunders?) was as close to a 3wheeler race team Suzuki ever had. I believe his family owned a Suzuki dealership, or had close ties to one, and that's why he built about the only "race" Suzuki 250cc-powered 3wheeler around. Because Suzuki came into this market rather late, and by that time, legal problems were already begining to show, they decided to enter the performance market with a Quad, rather than with a fast 3wheeler. Too bad, they probably could have built a cool 250cc trike. Dean

[Groundworx]

Sorry to keep bringing up the 87s, but I came accross a guy on the net who lives in the UK. He claims to have an 87 TRI-Z. I seen one pic of it, but immediately blew it off. It has a color scheme a lot like the 85. I noticed in another post you said that European trikes were behind times when it came to the color. Do you think it is possible that an 87 Z could exist in the UK and it be the yellow color? Here is the only pic he will send me of it. It looks a lot like a really clean 85 to me..

[Howdy]

Thank You Oldfart!!!!!! I got a envelope today. I am in sticker Heaven!! ;)
Thanks Again
Howdy

[oldfart]

I really think that Yamaha went to the new color combo (red and white), by that time. I think that it is very possible that a vehicle could be built in one year, then sold in the next. Dealers often change the year on the paperwork, depending on the date of sale. An '86 sold in '87 could very easily be dated a 1987 model. Many old VWs were mid-registered by their dealers for this same reason. Dean

[ATCnut]

I have seen the same thing that Dean is talking about. The year on the title may not be the same as the year on the frame sticker. They only true test is the VIN number, that does not change.

[thefox]

I came across this pic on www.bikepics.com it is listed as an '87. I figured that it is an '85 but the guy is in france so maybe it is the same deal as the other one. There is another pic. but it is just an '85 pic taken from here :D .
http://goldwing.bikepics.com/yamaha-triz250-87-bikepics-068598.jpg


Dean - Sent out my sticker envelopes today, can't wait!

[WI 350X]

Dean, I am so sorry, I sent you some money for the 3Wheeling stickers (I'm Bryan Fraedrich), but missed the part of your post that mentioned the Self-addressed/Stamped Envelope that I was supposed to send with the money. Do you want me to mail you a SASE in another envelope?

[oldfart]

No, just the buck will do, thanks, Dean

[350xman]

Hi Dean
I was reading some of my old 3 wheeling magazines and I came across a article that your did on "thrashmoblies" from the may 86 issue of 3 wheeling and I was hoping you could answer a few of my questions. I understand that you probably don't remember this particular article but I would like your view on the following questions.
When you guys at 3 wheeling received your test bikes (e.g. 86atc250r vs 86tri-z vs 86tecate 3) from the respectful manufactures were the test bikes a bit hotter or faster then compared to the same model year bike off the dealers showroom floor? Did you ever shootout your test bikes vs normal off the dealer showroom floor bikes? You stated in the article that you received a 200x and it flat out screemed compared to other 200x s. It out pulled other 200x bikes by 3 bike length on a straight drag. Was this typical of all the test bikes you received from all the manufactuers?
When it came time to give back the test bikes to Honda or which ever company supplied you with a test bike did you have to repair it back to normal operating condition if you totally trashed the bike beyond normal running condition?
Did you guys ever get a test bike and absolutely not like it and give it back to the manufacture and tell them not to produce it. If so, did the manufacture listen and not produce the bike for sale to the public? Did you influence any changes to pre production bike that companys revamped before putting it on the market? I read another article that said the 85 atc350x was a bike that was late to hit the market because it had alot of revamping done to it before it was released and that's why they called it an 85 1/2 in that article. Do you know if that was true?
My last question to you is tied into the past conversations on the board about the 87atc250r and 87atc350x that were not released in the U.S. but possible sold in Canada and Europe in that who at Honda would know how many of these bikes were produce and where they were sold. Also, I remember seeing and I acutally have it on video(1998) honda's tv commerical about all of honda's atv that they have produced during the last 25+ years and saw a 86 atc250r and 86 atc350x in it. Does honda have a museum with 1 model of each bike they produced over the years or did they go out and find owners that had these bikes for the commerical? And would they have a 87 atc250r or 350x in there?
Sorry, for the novel but it's very unique and interesting to be able to ask someone questions who had intimate access/knowledge of all the behind the scene events that scripted the glory days(1979-87) of the 3 wheeler scene.
Thanks 350xman

[oldfart]

We often got test units that were hand-assembled or cherry-picked, and not from the normal assembly line. These were perfect, buffed paint, bolts that all lined up, blueprinted engines and hand-tuned suspension. Fair huh? I remember one of the early 250Rs that when we looked at the rear shock, it had no numbers on it.... Hmmm. I do remember that ATC200X that was really fast right out of the box. Why? We never could figure that one out. Does Honda have an ATC museum? Maybe, but I never got close to Japan (although I tried several times to put a trip together)! I do recall a Kawaski 160 that we hated. It was too expensive, wasn't as fast as the ATC185S... so why build it? A one year wonder... Many of the test units were available for sale, after the model year was up. We bought a number of them for our own use, as the press would get killer deals on used test units. However, some test models were so thrashed that no one wanted them. Here's a good one.....

Team Honda ATC once had a Big Red for a test unit and pit bike. At the end of the season, they had to give it back, but they also knew it was going to be crushed into scrap. Knowing that, the gang decided to give that Big R one last ride for its life! Going about 80 miles an hour in a box truck, they pitched the Big R out the back on some desert highway! The bike went airborne at the first impact. Parts were flying every which way, tires were torn off, the fenders exploded. There was nothing left of that test bike to crush. Sorry if you Big Red owners are teary eyed with that one. Dean

[oldfart]

Guys, I just realized that I had private messages stacking up, as I never knew about them existing. I really don't have THAT much time to answer all of them, so try to keep your ideas and ?s on this end of the forum. Thanks for all of the kind words about our old magazine. Dean

[mad_max]

Dean, In your opinion, where was the 3 wheeler sport headed if the consent decree had not happened?

[oldfart]

I think the skies the limit back then. Bigger, faster, larger engines, more suspension.... the works. No telling where it could have gone.

[oldfart]

3Wheeling stickers go out today for; Thomas, Moore, and Fraedrich. And thanks to Bardshar.

[82atc110]

Dean, I recieved my syickers today and I just wanted to thank you again. I really appreciate you taking the time to send stickers to a bunch of strangers.

Thanks, Mark

[thefox]

I got my stickers today and they look great, now I just have to figure out were to put them, oh the possibilities. :-D Thanks again Dean.

-Andrew

[oldfart]

I'm glad all of you guys like the 3Wheeling stickers. They have been sitting up in my garage rafters since 1986ish.... which is about the time we made the first ATC Sports stickies. I once applied one of those sticker to the outside skin of a United Airlines 737 (as I walked through the doorway). The plane then flew from Chicago, IL to San Diego, CA, a crusing speed of 600 miles per hour. When we landed, I checked to see if the sticker was still there.... it was! So, these stickers have been "wind-tunnel" tested up to 600 mph. Not bad glue, I would say.

Wear them in good health. Dean

[oldfart]

Guys, I have a few Honda 4-stroke engine tools (mostly for 90/110 but may work on the 200X) that I will never used again. I think there is a flywheel puller, Dickson axle wrench and clutch holder, and maybe a few more. Anyone interested, let me know. Cheap. Dean

[MIK6]

Dean. I have enjoyed reading all your posts about the good old days w/ trikes, I hope the stories and info never stops coming.
I was wondering if you could help me out w/ another topic... VWs. I have 2 older VW streetlegal dune buggies, 1 is a Barrien 902 short-back rail, and the other I am pretty sure is a 70ish Berry Mini-T4 (uncut pan, 4 seat, fiberglass buggie). Do you have any info on the Mini-T4? Any places to check for info on it? If you would like I could send you a few pictures of it, if it would help.

THANKS
MIK6 / Mike

[oldfart]

Berrien Buggy is still around, I believe they are based in Berrien Springs, Michigan..... The Berry Mini-T goes way back. No one has parts for this body style any more. Hot VWs ran a story on these back in the late '60s or early '70s. But nothing since. I do see them at shows every now and then. Someone just wrote me with a Berry C-Cab VW kit..... Dean

[87ATC250R]

Hey all, I'm a newbie to 3 wheeler world. Just want to say firstoff what a great job you guys are doing here, keep up the great work! Nice to see a 3 wheeler only dedicated webpage that has some decent content.
Man, seeing Dean Kirsten in here brings back some great memories when I was a teenager. I'd go through those magazines from page to page and back again - great reading! Glad to see you here Dean! Some quick history on me... I've been into ATV's since 83' when I bought my first YT175 Yamaha, then a 250SX. I later moved into 4 wheelers and raced here in Ontario Canada for several years until packing it in in 93'. I never sold me dream bike - an 85' ATC250R. Still the best looking ATV made in my opinion. This page has given me a good shot in the arm and I plan to restore this beast. It's crazy to think that bike is almost 25 years old!

Sorry to ramble.... I just feel like a kid again!

Kris

[oldfart]

Kris, of all the ATVs ever made, if I were to pick one to restore, and one that will increase big time in value, it would have to be the ATC 250R. Which year? Perhaps the first air-cooled.... then first water-cooled models. I can see it now, a fully restored '81 250R at Barrett Jackson Auction in Scotsdale, AZ.

[ATCnut]

Dean

Do you have pics of the tools? If so please email to ATCnut@Comcast.net

[trikerider2oo7]

do you got any 350X tools?

[87ATC250R]

Hey Dean,

Just for kicks, I dug through my magazines (not to conflict, but I have 99% of every Dirtwheels mag from inception to 92') and found my collection of 3Wheeler/ATV Sports mags. Was reading through a May 82' issue, the Parker 400, Dean Sundahl on a custom ATC350R, and of course, the start to Honda's Kickass 3 wheeler advertising campaign. That original 81' 250R with the custom headlight in front of all the buggies (in an advert) looks totally cool. Those were the days!
Yea, restoring an 81 250R would be awesome. Up here in Canada, they are RARE to even find one beat up. The liquid cool versions are more popular, but anything from the 80's is next to NIL to find including the TRX250R's.
My 85' was 'restored' in 94', with new Honda plastics and everything. However, I plan on taking it down to the frame and detailing it back to new, and I mean 'new'! Stock everything, and only mint parts will do. These things are going to increase in value, it's only a matter of time. Right now parts are plentiful and people are still beating the crap out of them, which makes the clean units worth more.

I also have some very interesting info on the infamous 87ATC250R that I can't reveal just yet... time will tell.

Hey, any idea where I could get a stock rear axle cleaned and replated like the original nickel plating that comes on them?

Kris

[82atc110]

Dean I may be interested in those tools, let me know if they are still available.

[oldfart]

Depending on where you live, metal treatment/plating, whether it be chrome, cad (clear or yellow), nickle or black oxide are everywhere, but mostly in the major cities, where the manufacturing is. Here in southern California, finding companies that do these type of coatings for personal/or automotive reasons, is getting tougher all the time. They rather do aircraft or large job-lots, and not small handfuls of nuts and bolts.

For your axle, I would first find a chrome shop, and ask them if they can do nickle, or cadium (I can't rememer if those axles were done in yellow/gold or clear/silver cad). And see what they say. Usually, they have a job minimum, of let's say $40, so, one part will be pricey. Some times, they can tumble the job for less money, and other times, they have to be hand-wired, which costs more money. Dean

[87ATC250R]

Dean; please explain the cad black process. Is that like the finish that came on shift levers, kickstarters, etc?


Thanks for the tips - I'd like to get that axle coated in that yellowy clear sort of finish - heck, any new ATV will have it, at least I think so anyway. It's been awhile since I looked at a new model.

Kris

[oldfart]

Black oxide is a common coating used on tools, or nuts and bolts to protect against rust (looks like a semi-gloss black). This is an inexpensive deal, just dip and dry (clean first of course). Cadium plating required the parts to be clean, sandblasted or dipped. Clear cadium is basically a flat silver coating, while yellow cad has more of a gold tint. Clear cad is sometimes called cadium #1, and yellow cad is called cadium #2.

Nickle is a brighter silver-bronze finish, which is much thicker than cadium, and will withstand more abuse. Nickle is usually used as part of a triple chrome plate process (copper, nickle and chrome).

I also think that Honda, as well as other manufacters, did black powdercoating on much of the brackets and levers on those units. This is an electrostatic process that is very strong.

[Trikeaholic]

I could have sworn we went over plating before, but dean is really close to being right on the nose with his plating info. Its not too complicated. Nickle will stick to anything, but chrome a pitted, rusty part will not come out shiny, so it needs to be blasted smooth as glass. Remember my 83 250R? alot of it was nickle plated (pipe, footpegs, misc items) true, platers have a "lot charge" minimum, usually $40 (or about) it depends on the size of the part or wieght, like with fasteners. black oxie is actually a forced rusting process, most other platings like any electroplate deposits a sacrificial coating on the metal to protect the base material from corrosion based failure. Very few nuts and bolts are black oxide, most are electro-zinc plated to protect the part from structural failure due to corrosion. (not to hijack a post, it seems to have gotten WAYYYY of topic anyways)!!!!!! :D

[oldfart]

Thanks for the more technical view of this question. I wonder, if you nickle-plate an rear axle for example, due to the thickness of the material added, would you be asking for problems in the spline and thread areas, without masking these spots? Just a thought.

[Trikeaholic]

probably, but electroplate std thickness is only .0001" for nickle, and .0002" for zinc. Im not sure of the tolerances on the axle splines.

[oldfart]

One of the most difficult and largest undertaking we did at 3Wheeling was the famous 200X pipe shootout.... I think we had somewhere around 30 pipes to dyno-test and ride-test on a track. Do you guys remember that one? Well, here's some inside scoop. The ideas was that we called all the pipe guys and asked them to send us a 200X "production" pipe for our testing. Most did agree, and within days, we had a pile of pipes in our backroom that was incredible.

Two guys held out, for whatever reason; DG and Corba. No pipes, they didn't want to play. Super Trapp sent us a pipe that can only be called a "works, hand-built" unit, but all the rest were looking pretty much production. The day before the dyno test at Jerry Branch's shop, DG and Corba were still stroking us around, so you know what we did? Yup, we went out and bought them from a local retailer! The day of the dyno test, DG called and asked how everyone was doing. We then told them that their pipe was in the middle of the pack.... What pipe? They weren't too happy about that one.

Anyway, Harry from Trinity Cycle drove up and handed us a pipe for the dyno test. It was the worse-looking pipe ever made, arc welds, terrible bends, but old Harry said it should work. Are you sure? So, it went on the engine and kicked everyone's a##. Go figure.

The ride-portion came next and each of the pipes went on the test ATC and we all rode the wheels off that thing. I can't recall the all-out winner, but I remember Curtis Sparks and Bassani were way up there. Harry's pipe did well in the ride-portion, but did not win the shootout (maybe because it wasn't a production pipe and it looked like crap?). It was a great experience, and a lot of work. Shootouts are great for the readers, but only one can win, and everyone else is runner up.

[87ATC250R]

Sorry to get off-topic there... perhaps I'll ask those questions over in my restoring post.

What I could never understand is how the 200X (based off Dean's last post) became SO popular? I know the 250R reigned supreme, but the 200X must have sold more units per year. It never really turned my crank personally, but a lot of people bought them.

Any idea why?

Kris

[oldfart]

More 3Wheeling stickers going out this week. Thanks for all the cool notes and letters about the good old days. The ATC tools I spoke of, have been sold and shipped to their new owner.

Although the following story is about 4wheelers, I think most of you will enjoy it. The best factory press trip I ever took was to the Rubicon Trail, located just outside Lake Tahoe, CA. Honda was introducing the (new) 4x4 Fourtrax, so they decided to take an overnight trip across this famous trail. They chartered a bus for us press dudes, and drove us from Orange County up to northern California. The bus had a full bar with VHS movies going the whole time (no, no porn stuff). We stayed in some up-scale bed and breakfast house, which was over the top (for a bunch of ATV riders). The next morning, they took us to the starting point of the Rubican Trail. Now Honda wasn't sure that either us, or the new Fourtrax 4x4 could make it without help, so, they hired a bunch of 4x4 guys in Jeeps to lead/show the way.....

Needless to say, the ATVs blew through this trail like a hot knife through butter, and we left those trucks standing! Halfway through the trip, we stopped for dinner, and to make camp for the night. Next thing we know, a helicopter flies overhead and lowers down our gear, and food items. Next, the chopper landed, and let two pro BBQ chefs out (with tall white hats and all). These guys set up a complete BBQ feast, and beer city! It was incredible. The following morning we resumed our trip down this trail, and by mid-day, we made it all the way to the end of the line. All of the Fourtraxs made it without a glinch, and we drove them right into the back of a 40ft. semi trailer, for their trip back to Honda. We then hopped back into that bus, and headed for home (after a hot shower and steak dinner). What a cool trip. Now, is this anyway to earn a living?

[350Xccelerator]

so what do i have to do to get some stickers?

[87ATC250R]

Dean, that is insane! Honda doesn't mess around, I can imagine the money spent on ATV R&D and press through the mid 80's; even look at all the ads that were in the magazines.

I guess they hit the nail on the head with 4x4's, seems like they're everywhere.


Kris

[cliff2302]

Dean, i sent out money yesterday. I forgot to put a note in it, but i sent $3 for 6 stickers. thanks alot, we all appreciate you taking your time to get us these stickers and answering our un-ending list of questions.
Joe

[thefox]

Here you go 350Xccelerator, it was back a few pages


Oh, guys here's the drill. If you want two 3Wheeling Magazine vintage stickers (large yellow ones), read 2, I will do this.... Send me a self-address, stamped envelope, throw in a buck (for my hard labor and gas in driving to the post office @ $2.17 a gallon), and I will send you some. This is a limited time offer, no discounts to Dirt Wheels readers, and will last only as long as I can find old stickers up in the rafters of my garage... If you want more, then figure two-fer-a-buck. My mailing address is

Dean Kirsten
3Wheeling Magazine Guru
1311 York Drive
Vista, CA 92084

I will let you know when I reach the bottom of my ATC sticker box. Okay? Dean

[ACer]

Dean, It’s good to see so many old timers out there. I started riding ATCs in 1974, long live Pismo Beach. I even have a couple boxes of 3Wheeling laying around, yes I was a proud subscriber and still have one of those yellow stickers to boot. I love the Pictures of the vintage 90s and would like to restore mine, but I can’t find any OHTSU balloon tires for the thing. The rear fenders are in perfect condition unbelievably after beating the crap out of those old fiberglass suckers. Unfortunately the motor was a basket case and the only replacement I could find was a board and stroked 160cc, oh well it should make a good wheelie bike.
Charles

Honda collection: 1972 US90, 1981 ATC110, 1985 350X, 1986 350X, 1985 250R, 1979 ATC70, 1985 200X, plus a couple of 90s as parts bikes and still collecting.

[oldfart]

Yes, we used to go to Pismo Beach during the warmer months as well. During the mid-70s, I drove a VW sandrail, and had to get one of those "pit bikes" AKA an ATC 90. Bought a US90, slime green I remember, but quickly added a Hooker pipe, Kenny Harman cam, and a few chrome goodies. And that's how I got started in this sport. Pismo was bitchen back then. You could ride all the way down to the end, near Devil's Slide (where they filmed the original "Ten Commandments" movie, 1920s?). You could still see some of the plaster laying on the ground. There were some great dunes back there. Dean

[ACer]

Mine is slime green with a Hooker pipe I think I paid $300.00 for it in 1974 and haven’t stopped riding since. My parents owned shares at Pismo Coast Village when it opened and we used to ride strait from our trailer down the beach all the way to the Dunes (had to gas up at the Sand Center). Oh I miss those days. Now the dunes are so over-ridden that you could make it to the top of Comp Hill ridding a Big Wheel. Charles

[oldfart]

Will the reader from England, who sent me a letter for 3Wheeling stickers, e-mail me. I misplaced your address. (dean@angliaobsolete.com). Tanxs. Dean

[350Xccelerator]

how can i get some?

[Howdy]

how can i get some?

Scroll up about 5 postings.

[350Xccelerator]

oh thanks i didnt even see that

[trikerider2oo7]

you still got some stickers?

[oldfart]

I was in that box of misc. sticker from the '80s and yes, I do have some 3Wheeling stickers. left. Dean

[yater]

Hey Dean, will you take paypal for those stickers?

[oldfart]

PayPal for a $1 deal? Come on, a buck in an envelope plus a stamped envelope with your address. I can't make this any easier. Dean

[Howdy]

PayPal for a $1 deal? Come on, a buck in an envelope plus a stamped envelope with your address. I can't make this any easier. Dean
It was easy enough for me. I even sent a little extra and got even more in return.

Thanks for everything Dean. ;)
Howdy

[350Xccelerator]

cool ill definetly send an envelope and a buck on monday.

[84honda 200X]

Welcome to the board. I have one question did you do a article on Curtis Sparks 200X the one that was faster than a 250R if you do i would like to hear about how he did it? If you do have it can you email me at wheelyman89@hotmail.com. It would be very much apreciated.

[oldfart]

Curtis Spark did an engine for our 200X way back when, and it did run extremely well. Now, this was a desert setup, so things would be a bit different in terms of engine tune, and gearing. During the 1985 Baja 1000, our 200X was able to keep up right along side of Curtis and Wax's 200X, even though we didn't have the flat-slide carb, knive-edged crank, larger cam, and more porting. These 200Xs would beat many 250Rs in the rough and in certain sand washes. But in a drag race, those mighty 250Rs would blow by us!

Later on, Curtis built us a stroker 200X engine, I think was about 240cc. What a monster! We never raced it, since it wasn't legal for SCORE/AATVA. However, in the dunes, look out. We had a lot of fun with it, right up to the day, Honda went out with us to Glamis for some testing. Honda's Tom "blow 'em up" Byan, wanted to take our "X" up Comp Hill. Now, Tom was about 6'-4" 240-lbs+. A giant on a 200X. So, off he goes and we hold our breath. About half-way up, the engine starts to run out of steam, so he down-shifts it and the engine immediately goes to 12-grand! About 15-seconds later, a big boom was heard, the "X" stopped suddenly, and Tom looked down like, "Oh trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro!" Now this was a Honda loaner, so Honda owned it - not us! We rode up to the scene, and all you could see was oil everywhere. The entire front of the engine was blown away, including the front engine mount! The case was cracked everywhere, parts were all over the dunes, smoke was pouring out the top end. It was a real mess. We towed it back to camp, and later on, we tore it apart. The crank was broken in four pieces, the cam was in two, we never did find the piston. We found parts of the transmission inside the silencer. May it rest in pieces.....

[84honda 200X]

Ok I find that very interesting I have an 84 200X so i just wanted to know how that worked. But what is a knive-edged crank?? I was born in 89 but my dad was into 3wheelin pretty big and still has his 185S and the 110 so i dont know much about these magazines i only know from what i read on this site about them. Another question who would make the flat side carb anymore or would i have to go and find one at a garage sale or a swap meet?? Thank you for answering my question.! Its sad to hear about that 200X I bet you guys were realy bummed about that i know i would have been.

[Ole Time Racer]

Riding ATV's back in the late 70's and 80's was one of the most exciting times of my life. Being invovled in the industry from different avenues gave me an interesting window into one of the most exciting sports I have ever been involved with.

I can truely state that if it wasn't for Dean Kirsten and 3-Wheeling / ATV Sports Magazines my career as a professional ATV rider might never have gotten off the ground.

Thanks Deano!

Sincerely,

Tracey Dickson

[oldfart]

All I can say is, "Wow." Tracey, welcome aboard! We had a hell of a team between Tracey, his pops Bob, Tim Orchard (now of OMF), Mike Hallett, Phil Beckman, Bruce Simurda, along with the Driscolls, and many others. The sport was incredible during the mid-eighties, and we were lucikly enough to ride the wave... while it lasted.

You guys out there need to ask Tracey some of your burning questions... he was inside Team Honda ATC!..... Deano

[Billy Golightly]

Wow...this is just to damn cool, Welcome aboard Tracey Dickson!

[Wickedfinger]

I came across this pic on www.bikepics.com it is listed as an '87. I figured that it is an '85 but the guy is in france so maybe it is the same deal as the other one. There is another pic. but it is just an '85 pic taken from here :D .
http://goldwing.bikepics.com/yamaha-triz250-87-bikepics-068598.jpg


Dean - Sent out my sticker envelopes today, can't wait!


Thats definitely an '85 .... look at the lack of an overflow bottle below the seat.

[Jeb]

Tracey Dickson, Welcome aboard!

I look forward to reading your commentary as much as i've enjoyed reading Dean's! I hope you'll stick around a while like Dean has with us here at 3WW!

It's great to have some guys from the "inside" here!

Tracey, I'd like to know your personal favorite machine of all time.
Also, I live about 30 minutes from Boyd Raceway in Texas. I'd love to hear any stories you have!

Thanks!

[cliff2302]

dean, i recieved my stickers yesterday, thanks a ton!
Joe

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Welcome Tracy Dickson,
What an honor to have another celebrity on our board from the heyday of our sport.
I just wanted to issue a warm welcome to you. I hope you stick around as I am sure there are many, many questions from our members and myself.

By the way, another ex-factory rider is also in NC. Steve Mendenhall (Ex-Kawasaki) is in Clayton NC.

Curtis.

[87ATC250R]

Well I'll be somagunned - Tracey Dickson!

Please, tell us some stories - we'd love to hear them! Having Dean here is pretty awesome, this is unfathomable.

Kris

[trikerider2oo7]

Welcome to the board Tracey. I'm looking foward to some of your stories.

[trikerider2oo7]

oh yea...forgot to put somethin on there... got my 3 wheelin mag stickers the other day. they are awesome. thanks dean.

[250R4life]

hey Dean I was just curious do you have anymore stickers left I would love to have one, if so I will send you a buck or two today. By the way man Welcome to the board.

[oldfart]

Last time I looked, I still had some 3Wheeling stickers left; some first generation and second. So, if you want, go ahead and write me a letter and I'll send you some.

Since Dickson is lurking around here somewhere, I might as well tell some stories about him...... I recall, we just got the new '84 ATC 250R for some magazine photos. We drove down to Palm Ave., National City, which was a place that you could ride (before they closed it down..). Anyway, we unload this pristine ATC, brand new, never been in the dirt. Tracey gets into his racing gear, and I get my Nikon ready. Dickson decides to try the trike out for a spin, before we start taking photos... So, he kick's it to life, and away he goes.

In the very first fast turn/slide, he clutches it, and the front end comes up and spits him on the ground in a New York minute! I can't believe it. A brand new trike and he is already on the ground, with it on top of him. I ran after him, to make sure he is okay, but some young girl is closer, and rides her ATC90 up and gets off to offer some help. Tracey by now is laughing, but still laying on the ground in disbelief (doing the dead cockroach). This girl goes up to Tracey and says, "Aren't you that Tracey Dickson, that rides for all the ATC magazines? Wow, I can't believe I actually had a chance to meet you. All of my friends".... and on and on she goes. Dickson, is still laying on the ground ready to crawl into a hole. So, I come on to the scene, and the girl is still blabbing away. "Boy you are such a good rider. I once saw you race at....." Yeah, okay, but right now Tracey needs to get off his dead-butt and ride this thing!

Once we get Dickson upright and the trike back on all threes, we inspect the damage. Everything is okay, except the rear grab bar (and Tracey's ego), which is bent to crap. We end up doing the photo session, but if you look closely at the photos, the rear bar is bent at a 90 degree angle. And that young chick? She hung around until we left, admiring the Dickson dude. "Bye-bye Tracey, hope to see you ride again. Boy, you are so good".......... And off we drove into the San Diego sunset. Amen.

[mad_max]

Great story Dean,
Thanks :)

[EZ in NZ]

This has been great reading. I remember the magazine in stores when I was young.

As far as the 87 models go, I remember when I was riding an old Honda 250A in late 1987 and through 88 and my local Honda dealer had a whole heap of new ATCs arrive at their dealership.

At the time he said that Honda Japan was offloading them to markets like us (New Zealand) because they couldn't sell them in Nth America anymore.

They were cheap too.

Saying that, it's very hard to find used 250r's, 350X's etc here now. Most have been parted out in wrecking yards long ago.

I just got a 200X a week ago and this board has been great for learning on.

I haven't been on a trike since I was 16 or so but I'm having a heap of fun now.

Andy

Most common thing people are saying to me: "Aren't those old things dangerous?" - Whatever!

[trikerider2oo7]

cool story dean

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Dean or Tracey,

What do you guys think of this 88 ATC250ES discovered in the UK? ( http://3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=22112 ) Are there any other models out there that are 88's or do you think the ES is the only one? If I wanted to contact someone at American Honda and ask them, would I need to contact them directly or a regional represenitive? I wish I could get in contact with someone who is still involved with the inner workings....alot of questions to ask.

[oldfart]

Strange.... I can only assume that ATC sales were large enough outside of the U.S., that Honda continued on with the Big Red Model.... I know at a time, the "Red" was the largest selling 3-wheeler they had, which out sold the ATC 200X and 200S models. We tend to forget Honda is a worldwide corporation, and not only for the Glamis sand dunes... The only part about riding the 200ES I didn't like, was loading one in the back of a pickup. ugh.

[Billy Golightly]

Thanks for the insight Dean. Maybe someone else will someday turn another one of these up.

[honda_rider13]

i was wondering what stickers they are and if i could get some. i was born just as 3 wheelers stopped being made but i still grew up around them and 4 wheelers. id really like to have a peice the history of what i have today.

[trailboss]

excuse me dean for using your thread,but,i need to ask tracey what was it like riding for team honda(must have been amazing!!!) and what were the perks other than racing trikes for a living?

p.s. i would like to welcome you tracy to this forum!!!! i personally am waiting with baited breath to hear your stories as i was a teenager in the heyday of trikes and wanted so badly to race!!!!

[marshallfester^australia]

Hi Dean, I am a collector of all ATC gear and would be over the moon if I could buy a couple of these for my collection. Regards Fester :beer

[250R4life]

hey dean, what about those Factory Racing 86 250R's, I know you guys tested it, and I just want to know if you tested it in the dunes.Also was it FAST?

[oldfart]

3Wheeling stickers are still available. Same deal as always and I'll be happy to send some more out to anyone...... I even found a stack of small ones (same deal as big ones).

I did have a chance, more than once, to ride a factory ATC250R (even the ATC200R once). Since I was never much of a short-course rider, trying to ride/race one of their ATCs setup with short tires was never my thing. Now in the dunes, that's a whole new ballgame! I really liked the Paul Turner setup; the torque, (sound of the pipe with the modified CR250 silencer), throttle response. All of their suspension parts were way-better than anything most of you ride with. Showa did magic with those rear shocks and forks. The times I did ride one in the dunes, they used stock (yeah, right), rear Ohsu (oats) tires, and not some flipper tires for mega-traction. I tended to over-rev the engine a lot in the lower gears, since I was not used to that kinda of "hit" and instant rpm. It took me a while to get used to up-shifting sooner (short-shifting if you will), and work the engine in the upper gears more. But you ended up going so g-d fast, it was spooky. Wow, some memories.

I recall one mid-mid week morning, Tracey and I were towing out to the Buttercup dunes up Highway 8 over Decanso. We had a brand new preproduction water-cooled ATC in the back of my pickup (we didn't have the enclosed Dico trailer yet). You couldn't buy one if you had to, but we had the only one around.... too cool. Anyway, we passed a couple of pickups loaded up with ATCs, and these guys spotted that "rumored" ATC in my Toyota, and freaked. They were honking their horns, telling us to slow down and pull over! But Honda told us, don't let anyone get too close.... Later on that afternoon, we rode past these guys in the back dunes in Mexico, and the chase was on! I could hear Tracey say, "Oh, s**t" let's get out of here!" And the race was on...

[atcmatt]

Nice story Dean.

Can you tell us anything about the 300es or was it a 350es?

Thanks,

Matt

[trikerider2oo7]

haha...thas what ya get for bein famous...but i guess...THINK OF THE MONEY!!

[trailboss]

gidday dean!! can you tell us anything about husqvarna 's attempt at the three wheeler market.there's a picture of a husky cr250 threewheeler in the picture section of this website.i had a husky cr250 bike that i bought from a friend a few years back and it was a rocket ship!!! the only thing is that the bike was to big for me,which made it hard to handle,but boy did it have power!!!

[C W.]

----------------------------------- :beer