1982 Airfooler Hare Scramble Slow Build Up

[JacobMonster]

First off, this is going to be a slow build, less fancy build. Won't be done till winter/early spring i'm thinking.
I'm on a shoe string budget, doing whatever I can to save/make money and dump into this project for next year.
My end goal is to have a nice woods bike for riding the property and the Hare scrambles around Ohio.
Thread is to share my progress and keep myself motivated, as it seems every time I get some spare cash in my pocket, some unexpected bill likes to take it :mad:

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a543/Dragondude577/20160917_171505_zpsbuz16pac.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/Dragondude577/media/20160917_171505_zpsbuz16pac.jpg.html)

Currently, it has a set of Pro Taper ATV Mid bars, 200X front end, DG Muffler, and engine/swing arm skid plates. , and not pictured are a set of Douglas Rims with ITP 18 Inch tires
Next upgrade is going to be the DG Header, since my stocker is bent. and then a carb tune.
Shooting for low-mid range power, which the bike already has some major low end grunt. I may swap some sprockets for taller gearing so it won't be so wheely happy.
Doing research on 3rd gen carb swap. I saw somewhere recently, but can't find it, someone talking about swapping the carbs and going to an open intake. I forget what the term is. Its where you delete the airbox and have your filter exposed.
Definitely going to have the shock and forks reworked for woods riding. All 140LBS pounds of me doesn't make the suspension work quite right lol.
Also, any tire recommendations to go with my shorter tires? I have 23.5 tall tire with an 11 inch rim. I forget what the width is.

Also going to do a CR rear brake conversion, as my rear caliper is seized. shorty clutch lever, barker busters, fix the ever so common seat problem of the Airfoolers.
May put a 350X front Headlight assembly on it.
Possible port work and DG head in the future, but I doubt I will need it as I'm pretty content with the power.
Overall look I'm going for is a Red and Black color scheme.
Black Wheels, seat, bars, etc. There was a 3rd gen R I saw a picture of that looked exactly like I wanted. I loved the way all the black parts contrasted with the red and made the red really pop.
I have an extra frame, front end, swingarm, and axle laying around that I hope to paint. Then when those parts are painted, I can just swap them out instead of having my bike laying around the garage in pieces.

[barnett468]

.
What is your specific tire question?

I am not the most knowledgeable person on any of the ATC250 models, however, one of the best things you can do to those to increase power and throttle response EVERYWHERE is to increase the compression . The cheapest way to do that is to have your head welded and recut . This may cost up to $150.00, but that is far less than a DG head will cost you unless you get extremely lucky . This is what I would do BEFORE getting any porting done since you want low end power because you may find that after doing this, you will not want any more power . You can always port the cylinder later if you want more but they are kind of hard to "un-port".

As far as tire suggestions go, you need to tell us exactly what your goal is and the type of surface you want them to work best on such as soft dirt or very hard packed dirt . Wet or dry dirt etc.

A far as suspension mods go, I only suggest people that I know are extremely knowledgeable and highly qualified, so I suggest you give Race Tech a call . Their turn around time is around one week and their prices are very competitive and they have rebuilt and modified many Honda ATC250 shocks . They may also have a Gold Valve upgrade for it.

If you want it to wheelie less, get a longer swing arm . They can sometimes be found on Ebay or send ATC007 a pm . He may have one . Keep in mind that a longer swing arm will make the rear suspension softer, so if you get one you will need to give that info to whomever builds your shock . For the type of riding you will be doing, I wouldn't get one any more than 2" longer and would actually only go 1 1/2" longer but I doubt they make them in that length.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[yaegerb]

.
What is your specific tire question?

I am not the most knowledgeable person on any of the ATC250 models, however, one of the best things you can do to those to increase power and throttle response EVERYWHERE is to increase the compression . The cheapest way to do that is to have your head welded and recut . This may cost up to $150.00, but that is far less than a DG head will cost you unless you get extremely lucky.

Be careful with this. Increasing compression will give you increased torque with losses on top end, increased heat and use of higher octanes. Maybe this is what you want, but its not as simple as cutting and re-welding. The piston/crank/squish velocity all have to work together. I highly advise you talk to an engine builder before you start down this particular path.

[DohcBikes]

Increased compression will absolutely NOT cause any losses in power at any RPM, period. To increase compression is to increase power from idle to red line.

[JacobMonster]

.
What is your specific tire question?

As far as tire suggestions go, you need to tell us exactly what your goal is and the type of surface you want them to work best on such as soft dirt or very hard packed dirt . Wet or dry dirt etc.



I ride a lot of hard packed dirt, roots, and loose rock.
Most done dry conditions.
Hoping to go with a shorter front tire to compliment the 18's I will be running most of the time.

I will definitely give Race Tech a call and look into the swing arm.
Thanks

[atc300r]

If your going to race xc you want a taller tire for ground clearance.Sealed airbox and wire harness.Stockish motor works best you want reliability.Good brakes stock length rear axle.Stock suspension works well .The longer swingarm would be were Id put my money.Find an old school after market or have one made.

[efhondakid]

I prefer the taller front tire for the woods, rolls over the roots and rocks easier. I would not do the airbox delete especially if you plan to run HS, I've had my 3rd gen submersed and glad I had my airbox lid still. Two sets of tires is never a bad thing either, I run a set of 18x8.5 lawn mower tires 90% of the time for the harescrambles up here in NE OH. I also have a set of 20x11 XC Masters for if things get sloppy. Barkbusters aren't really a necessity, I run a set of Cyra Stealths just enough to keep the roost and branches off of ya.

[JacobMonster]

Be careful with this. Increasing compression will give you increased torque with losses on top end, increased heat and use of higher octanes. Maybe this is what you want, but its not as simple as cutting and re-welding. The piston/crank/squish velocity all have to work together. I highly advise you talk to an engine builder before you start down this particular path.


I will definitely take that into serious consideration before I hop to engine work.
Once I get to that point, I'll give F.A.S.T a call.

And darn it Yaeger, I didn't get to meet you this year at TF :(

[yaegerb]

I will definitely take that into serious consideration before I hop to engine work.
Once I get to that point, I'll give F.A.S.T a call.

And darn it Yaeger, I didn't get to meet you this year at TF :(


Give me a call anytime buddy, I can walk you through options and then we can talk to Jeff.

[JacobMonster]

Give me a call anytime buddy, I can walk you through options and then we can talk to Jeff.
Will do bud! Thanks. Hey, if you still have my number, gimme a text would ya? My other phone broke so i lost yours.


I prefer the taller front tire for the woods, rolls over the roots and rocks easier. I would not do the airbox delete especially if you plan to run HS, I run a set of 18x8.5 lawn mower tires 90% of the time for the harescrambles up here in NE OH. I also have a set of 20x11 XC Masters for if things get sloppy.

I have an extra set of wheels, which have those ridiculous tractor tires on it right now. I had the same idea as you, to have a better set for sloppy or rougher conditions.
And the mower tires are actually decent?


The longer swingarm would be were Id put my money.Find an old school after market or have one made.

Good point. I'll keep my eyes out for one.





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[yaegerb]

Just sent ya a text.

[barnett468]

I will definitely take that into serious consideration before I hop to engine work.
Once I get to that point, I'll give F.A.S.T a call.


If you want to be even 1/2 way competitive racing, you MUST increase the compression unless everyone in your class has never ridden a 3 wheeler before . There are different levels of compression you can run . You can in FACT increase the compression on a box stock first gen 250r a little and run premium gas and not have any heat or detonation related problems . This will be with a cranking compression of around 170 psi . I ran 200 psi on my "TECATAE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe" and it had plenty of top end and I holeshot many PRO level races with it.

The Honda manual says cranking compression should be 142 - 165 or 156 +/- 14 psi . If your top end has been properly rebuilt and broken in and your compression is less than around 160, you will benefit somewhat from increasing it and you will not notice any loss of rpm with a small increase . Even though they do not mention this in the manual, I know that the high end of these compression numbers are for 0 to approximately 1000 feet in elevation . The higher your elevation, the lower the cranking/dynamic compression will be . An engine looses around 5 psi per every 1000 foot increase in elevation.

If your cranking compression is greater than around 180, I would try a one step colder plug which would be a 9 in your case.

If you want to run around 180 compression, but don't want to buy race gas, you can simply buy TEL which is the lead additive they used to put in gas and it is in fact perfectly legal to use it in off road machines in most, if not all states.

I also didn't think you were going to weld the head yourself with your $5,000.00 tig welder then machine it on your $5,000.00 lathe until it "looks about right" which is why I didn't specifically state that you should not try this on your own.

Here's a fee online service manual if you need it.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/atc250r_81-84_servicemanual.pdf


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[JacobMonster]

If you want to be even 1/2 way competitive racing, you MUST increase the compression unless everyone in your class has never ridden a 3 wheeler before .

Thanks for the info Barnett.
Once I get the steering and pipe situated, Im going to weigh my options.
I have yet to race, and still have no idea the classes, competition, etc.
Once the bike is running decent and I can get my course on the property set up, I'll be able to tell if more power is needed for what I can handle.
then once I start seeing what my competition is, I can see if I wanna go competive, or run the piss outta what I have.




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[efhondakid]

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hi-run-wd1052-replacement-tire?cm_vc=-10005
I actually really like these when it's dry I run them for everything HS and MX. I like to be able to light them up and spin them whenever, that's just my riding style though. As far as motor work I would say that would be last on my list. Suspension and proper tire setup as well as your riding ability is gonna factor in way more than a built motor for the woods. You don't really need a ton of power, momentum is your best friend in the woods, it's not like a MX track were your constantly running the nuts out of the motor.

[JacobMonster]

Has anyone installed All Balls in their steering stem?
I installed the bottom race and it went in easy and sits flush with the steering tube.
I installed the top race and its sitting like an eighth inch up. It got a little crooked when installing, but I straightened it out and is sitting like that even all the way around. It even sounds solid when you hit it. Just wondering if how it sits like it is, is normal or not.

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[pipeline triker]

I love the 1st gen R's I have many, some stock some not at all. The 85 round slide carb is a nice carb to use, pretty cheap to get and use. if you get a carb that does not fit you just need to use a reed spacer so the bowl clears the cases. Remember 82 swing arms are a one year only deal. If your top end is good and you just want it better, clean up the ports a little and bring your head in to have it trued up. This will only cost about$25 and will make you head gaskets last longer and bump your comp up a little.