The Green trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro

[86T3]

A new project started today when I finally got a decent (deeee-eeeecent) deal on a donor bike. The Green trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro, from parts unknown, will be dominating tracks all over the east coast in 2017. The engine set right in and the pipe looks like it's going to work without modification. I didn't set a tank on to see if it will clear but I think I'll be ok. I won't be running this stock pipe anyways, I'll get something more performance oriented. Any guesses on what it is boys?

234970
234971
234972
234973

[DohcBikes]

.....kdx200

[bkm]

I'm bkm, and I approve of this message.

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[86T3]

.....kdx200

That didn't take long. How about the frame?

And for all the people who haven't seen Trailer Park Boys, the related jokes are hilarious and you're all missing out

[bkm]

Bore the triples 2mm and run modified 86-88 cr250 43mm showa conventionals.

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[DohcBikes]

That didn't take long. How about the frame?

And for all the people who haven't seen Trailer Park Boys, the related jokes are hilarious and you're all missing outIt's an 86 tecate frame isnt it?

[oldskool83]

2nd gen tecate frame with 88-03 kx500 motor

[86T3]

Can't trick you guys. Yes, it's a 2nd Gen Tecate frame with a kdx200. The 200 classes really took off this year and I decided I needed to get in on that action. I'm going to have to start training, I can't imagine how hard racing 2 classes will be. Bkm, I'm going to message you about the forks

[bkm]

Bkm, I'm going to message you about the forks

Giving credit where credit is due, this was a combo suggested to me by onformula1. Having owned a bike with these forks though, I can attest to their level of performance. These things were way ahead of their time and far superior to anything any manufacturer put on a sport trike of the day.

[DohcBikes]

CR125 and CR500 showa forks of the same years are essentially the same other than spring rates and valving. Still to this day some of the best forks ever built. Somebody should reproduce them. I suppose patents would prohibit.

[danbur55]

unrelated to your post but you appear to be getting ready to start robbing hives or splitting them with all the supers and frames in background of that pic "that can be a sweet business but one that you know you are gonna always get stung in"

[86T3]

unrelated to your post but you appear to be getting ready to start robbing hives or splitting them with all the supers and frames in background of that pic "that can be a sweet business but one that you know you are gonna always get stung in"

Good eye. We got more frames and boxes, we've been going through and putting a couple new frames in with the old comb so they get drawn out easier. And yes, I do get stuck a lot!

[danbur55]

At least getting stung will help with arthritis

[barnett468]

.
I did some development testing on the 86 KDX 200 and there is a lot of potential in that model and all the other water cooled KDX 200's . Jeff Fredette also won the Gold Medal at the ISDE race in Italy on an 86 KDX, however, with a stock cylinder and head, none of the years are super fast.

Since you are new to the 200 class, I wouldn't touch the ports until you get some time on it, plus it may have been ported already but that doesn't mean that it was done in a way that would be best for your app . It will be fairly sensitive to different pipes, unfortunately, no one makes a pipe for that combo and a custom one will cost a lot and will just be a "best guess".

If you reach a point where you want more top end, a couple very knowledgeable people on porting these are Jeff Fredette and Eric Gore . You can call them direct and go with whomever sounds best to you . You can also try Harry Klemm whom also built the Honda spanking Tecate 200's for Team Green, however, my guess is that he prefers to stick to doing watercraft these days . Ron Black does cylinder head mods for them along with carb mods but you won't benefit much from his carb mods on your app because you will never be below 2/3rd throttle on it during a race.

As far as his head mods go, if you have it ported, I would just have the porter do the head also although one of Rons modified heads will work with someone elses porting . The key is to get the compression where you want it . Also, if you have a head modified, you should send them the piston you plan to use also so the can get the angle of the squish band correct since the angle of the top of the piston can vary between piston brands,

http://www.frpoffroad.com/engine-tips.htm

http://www.eric-gorr.com/

http://www.rb-designs.com/rb_designs_llc_021.htm

Harry Klemm

Phone 928-763-5430

http://www.klemmvintage.com/


One affordable small upgrade you can make is to install Boysen Power Reeds . The part number is 607 . These will not make a big difference but they are not expensive either . I ran used stock reeds on my 250 Tecate race bike and it ran just fine.

If you need a carb, a plain old Mikuni 34 mm through 36 mm is all you will need . You will NOT get ANY more power from some ultra stealth $300.00 prefabulated amulite carburetor, however, one of those will make your wallet considerably lighter . I ran a 38 on my 250 and holeshot several races, so a 38 on a 200 would be overkill.


COMPRESSION

You need a bit of compression in one of these for them to make good power which means you will need to increase the compression then run race gas if you want a pro level engine.


GEARING

I would start with the gearing so it almost reaches max rpm by the end of the longest straight on a track . Since many tracks are likely designed to keep the speeds fairly low these days, this will render first gear basically useless but it will keep it on the power band more which is important on this size engine . You should also try taking off in second gear with this type of gearing.


FORKS

The box stock Tecate forks are plenty good enough and are what everyone ran in the 86 series that Kawasaki won . Even John Neary said they were acceptable for him in stock form but would have stiffened up both ends because he weighed more than most riders . The only real downside of these forks is their scarcity and high price compared to the Honda forks, therefore, unfortunately, the Honda forks may be your simplest option, however, I can tell you that enlarging the holes in the tripple trees will in fact weaken them and make them more susceptible to breaking and is therefore not a suggestion I would make . Just because something can be done does not mean it is a great idea to do it . If you want to run the Kawi forks, you can pm nd4speed and see if he has any he wants to sell . They also occasionally come up on Ebay.


RIDING 2 CLASSES

That's easy if you are on shape . I rode 3 and even 4 classes when I raced Moto cross and these were 20 minute races and I was not in great shape and I partied a bit . 3 wheeler races are rarely longer than 15 minutes long . The more you ride, the easier it becomes.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[efhondakid]

The KDX 200/220 motors are pretty bulletproof. I had one as my woods weapon years ago, ran a pro circuit pipe and silencer combo along with the dual stage boyesens a twin air filter and the proper carb work, thing was a screamer for sure.

[bkm]

Uh oh, I recommended using a Honda part on one of Barn's Kawasaki's and he caught it. Sorry Joe! Btw, several guys have been using bored Tecate triples with KX100 USD forks and have had zero issues.

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[barnett468]

Uh oh, I recommended using a Honda part on one of Barn's Kawasaki's and he caught it. Sorry Joe! Btw, several guys have been using bored Tecate triples with KX100 USD forks and have had zero issues.


XLNT!, then this is further testament to the exceptional quality of the parts and engineering that went into every "TECATE....The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe!". :)


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[86T3]

Thanks for the info Barnett. The engine will be going good to Jason Hall if he'll have it, he's a my builder of choice for anything. It will be a race gas motor and I'll take his advice on however he wants to port it. Heven usually focuses on performance through the the entire powerband, which seems to be the strent the of these motors, so I assuses rats how he'll do it. I was thinking of putting a 38 on it but after thinking about it, I agree that it will be too much. It had a 34 mikuni (I believe) on it, I'd like to go a little bigger though. As for the forks I have a couple extra sets laying around. The forks on my 500 have spacers under the caps and run 40wt. oil and work very well. I haven't mxed with those forks but they handled pine lake and a couple other things tracks with ease. I'll probably run that setup for tt and maybe get another set for mx, but I don't know if I'll really want to race this mx. BKM is right though, I raced Unadilla on a set of kx100 inverts and had no problems, I wouldn't think twice about doing it again

[bkm]

That is exactly what I was thinking. Thank you for building such strong triples so they can be upgraded with superior Honda parts.

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[86T3]

The KDX 200/220 motors are pretty bulletproof. I had one as my woods weapon years ago, ran a pro circuit pipe and silencer combo along with the dual stage boyesens a twin air filter and the proper carb work, thing was a screamer for sure.

I've been reading on these motors and it seems like the boyesen and vf reeds make a huge difference. Did you ride it with stock reeds and then swap? I'm sure I'll upgrade the reeds, just not sure which way I'll go

[3 Wheel Drive]

http://thatschurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif

[barnett468]

I've been reading on these motors and it seems like the boyesen and vf reeds make a huge difference.

No, again, they do no make a "huge" difference . If you expect a huge increase in power from them you will be greatly disappointed I guarantee you . Any posts you have read to the contrary are grossly exaggerated by people that ether also changed something else at the same time thereby nullifying any ability to assess the change the reeds themselves made and/or they are merely experiencing the placebo effect where they think it's a lot better because the ads say it will be and they just spent a wad of cash on it so they expect it be better.

I won the last Pro ATC race at Saddleback as a part time racer beating Jimmy White and the Honda team with all their ultra fancy parts and around 30 other riders with our old R & D test bike with a basically stock chassis and stock suspension and stock rear axle and stock reeds and plain old 38mm Mikuni . The top end and exhaust pipe was done by Harry Klemm.

The main thing anyone can do to improve their finishes is learn how to ride better.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[barnett468]

That is exactly what I was thinking. Thank you for building such strong triples so they can be upgraded with superior Honda parts.

You are very welcome, however, if the Honda parts are that superior to the Kawi parts, I wonder why Kawasaki won the 1986 series with their STOCK front forks AND the Loretta Lynn National where it seemed that poor Marty Harts bike wouldn't even start for the race so he required a little "assistance". :)


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[bkm]

Again Joe, sorry!

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[barnett468]

Thanks for the info Barnett. The engine will be going good to Jason Hall if he'll have it, he's a my builder of choice for anything. It will be a race gas motor and I'll take his advice on however he wants to port it. Heven usually focuses on performance through the the entire powerband, which seems to be the strent the of these motors, so I assuses rats how he'll do it. I was thinking of putting a 38 on it but after thinking about it, I agree that it will be too much. It had a 34 mikuni (I believe) on it, I'd like to go a little bigger though. As for the forks I have a couple extra sets laying around. The forks on my 500 have spacers under the caps and run 40wt. oil and work very well. I haven't mxed with those forks but they handled pine lake and a couple other things tracks with ease. I'll probably run that setup for tt and maybe get another set for mx, but I don't know if I'll really want to race this mx. BKM is right though, I raced Unadilla on a set of kx100 inverts and had no problems, I wouldn't think twice about doing it again

No prob, you are very welcome . Jason Hall is also very good, but I can tell you from first hand experience with racing 3 wheelers and with these 200 cc engines, that you want rpm, not bottom end, and they then become a handful to ride much like a 125 is . I also raced 125 Moto Cross and actually hated it big time . You really do not want a a KDX200 engine that has any bottom end if you want to be competitive in the 200 class unless all the riders are extremely slow, however, the difficulty with a pipey 200 in a 3 wheeler is that they are difficult to keep on the pipe which is why I suggested just riding it in stock form or nearly stock form first to determine what you really want the engine to do . You can always port a cylinder but it's kinda hard to unport one.

As far as "better" forks than the 86 Tecate ones, sure there are, and Honda obviously makes a lot of very good bikes and parts and I have had way more Hondas than Kawi's, but keep in mind that all bikes are designed so all the parts work well together, and if the offset of any fork you use is much different than the Tecate ones, it will change the way it steers etc so you may be simply trading improved suspension for poorer steering to some degree if you use different forks . It's all good and well for a recreational rider to say this fork or that fork is an "upgrade", but unless they are an experienced closed course racer where their are actually turns one has to make, their opinion is not relevant in that area.

I can also tell you that I did a LOT of testing with the 86 prototype bike on extremely rough tracks and these tracks were far rougher than any track on the National 3 wheeler circuit and they never bottomed out excessively hard, nor were they what I would consider harsh . Sure I would have preferred the entire suspension gave a plush 1959 Cadillac Biarritz type ride, but my point is that they were plenty god enough for myself and the top racers in the country pretty much just the way were.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[barnett468]

.
You might also send Keith Salyer a pm and ask him for his opinion . He raced a 200 cc Tecate back in 85.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[bkm]

Grandpa, tell me bout the good ole days!

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[bkm]

Joe, you'll have to excuse Barn. He gets his dander up when anyone suggest that there are possible upgrades from the factory Tecate parts. He takes it personally, because, I don't know if you know this, but he helped design them. And since there have been no advancements in the last 30 years, well there are no alternatives to the original equipment. Barn, unfortunately, it's not 1986 anymore. BTW, the 43mm Showa's are regarded as one of the best conventional forks ever made, even if you didn't help design them.

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[DohcBikes]

. BTW, the 43mm Showa's are regarded as one of the best conventional forks ever made, even if you didn't help design them.

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But as he explained, they aren't designed with the tecate frame or front end dimensions in mind. They're also too tall for this application.

[bkm]

But as he explained, they aren't designed with the tecate frame or front end dimensions in mind. They're also too tall for this application.
That's funny, I mentioned them before Our Lord and Savior graced us with his presence again, and you didn't seem concerned with me mentioning putting them on a Tecate, because everyone knows if you did, you would have made it loud and clear.

You are always preaching thinking outside the box in the name of Hot Rodding. What gives?

You know they can be internally modified to work just fine on any bike no matter the length, you know the internals are far superior to the old damper rod fork, and you know if set up properly these forks don't know what frame they happen to be on.

Welcome back Barn!

[DohcBikes]

Oh christ. I could have typed your response before you did bryan. If you haven't noticed, I don't have the time or patience to sit here and try to convince anyone here of anything anymore, and there's mountains of arguments that i've left to blow in the wind. Even though several keep trying to get me to engage, I'm done wasting energy.

[DohcBikes]

There's about 4 or 5 of you here that need to get a new hobby. Wasting your thought energy on me will prove a huge waste of time. I think of the snickers and joy you all must feel when you type that crude or stinging remark that you must think affects me so greatly. It doesn't.

I'd use ktm85 inverts.

[El Camexican]

Our father who have hath been banned, Barnett be your name. Your three wheeler come it shall be done on Earth as it was at Kawasaki. Give us our daily bullsh*t and forgive us for using aftermarket staters as we forgive those who ride Hondas and lead us not to use pump gas, but deliver us only NOS Kawasaki parts.

[bkm]

Oh christ. I could have typed your response before you did bryan. If you haven't noticed, I don't have the time or patience to sit here and try to convince anyone here of anything anymore, and there's mountains of arguments that i've left to blow in the wind. Even though several keep trying to get me to engage, I'm done wasting energy.
Oh I know, you've been busy making friends over on caferacer.net.

For the sake of Joe's thread, I'll stand down. Joe's a smart guy, surrounded by guys out east who have forgotten more than I'll ever learn. He's in good company and doesn't need my help or suggestions or me further derailing his thread.



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[DohcBikes]

Oh I know, you've been busy making friends over on caferacer.net.
I have nothing personal against anyone here contrary to what some may think, but guys, following me around on the internet is really, really pathetic. Yes in fact i have made friends over there, they seem to be able to handle more than the sensitive crowd here. They've even made a thread in my honor over there already, stand up fellas they are. Maybe I'll invite my long time friend barnett468 over there too.

I've made a lot of friends here. The petty stuff, i'm over it. Can't wait til you guys are too.

Joe IS smart. He knows that mike and myself know what we are talking about, and he always takes any serious advice to heart. I'm not out here with a sword challenging anyone that uses showa cr forks to stand down. Yes, they can be made to work, but why? You can build the tecate forks to exceed a level that pro riders find adequate, so why waste the effort on cobbled stuff?

And if you wanna know something else, it was ME, myself an I that first mentioned the showa forks and their prowess relative to any other fork in off road history here on 3 wheeler world. I brought that knowledge here, others have parroted since. That doesn't mean they are the best option in this case.

[bkm]

You didn't have the time or patience, but you seem to have found the time and patience, and the timing is convenient with the return of your long time friend.

Sorry if I didn't give proper royalties to the originator of the Showa fork hierarchy here on 3ww,. And when you say you can't wait until I'm over the petty stuff, when is the last time I responded to anything you have posted or played petty games? There are several guys infatuated with your every word, I'm not one of them.

I get it now though, showa's are fine as long as they are not used on a Tecate for some reason, but cobbling ktm85 forks are fine.



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[El Camexican]

I'd use ktm85 inverts.

With which springs? Would you make your own triples? I hear it's an easy mod.

[DohcBikes]

Math and time. I work with blocks of precision machined billet aluminum every day, yes I have the resources to make my own triples so yes that's what I'd do.

Anyhow, I'm interested, hate blue frames, and am in for the roller coaster. Nothing but tech from here out.

[83ATC185]

Bet you cant wait to start trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro hammering people!!!

Sorry i watched that very episode last night and dropped into say cool project and make a funny.

Carry on...

[El Camexican]

Math and time. I work with blocks of precision machined billet aluminum every day, yes I have the resources to make my own triples so yes that's what I'd do.

Anyhow, I'm interested, hate blue frames, and am in for the roller coaster. Nothing but tech from here out.

Sounds interesting, yet another new career eh? Haven't seen you post any builds lately, maybe you can show us some of that precicion stuff you've been doing.

[DohcBikes]

There are several guys infatuated with your every word, I'm not one of them. I completely agree.

http://swinburnearchitect.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/success.jpg

[86T3]

I love this back and forth and I'm not going to apologize for it. Carry on people, don't stop on my behalf.
Barnett, watch thsome video. Jacob Hall's 33 trike is a 250r with a bone stock kdx200, the guy with the camera is Dwight Jeckel on a selvy 200r. The kdx definitely holds its own.https://youtu.be/SsHKOvkofRE
My cylinder needs plating so I'm just going to have it ported first, I don't want to go back and do it again. I won't have a blue frame, probably silver or maybe I'll go with this white again. Not really sure. This won't be a good looking build like my 500 was, I doubt I'll paint much more than the frame. It's a racer so it should look that way

[efhondakid]

I've been reading on these motors and it seems like the boyesen and vf reeds make a huge difference. Did you ride it with stock reeds and then swap? I'm sure I'll upgrade the reeds, just not sure which way I'll go

Like said before they won't make a huge difference, but they do help with throttle response and for the price the bit of gain is worth it in my opinion.

[oldskool83]

Reed spacer boyesen reeds and a redomed head help the most plus correct jetting.

[atc300r]

The last 2 races at Geneva we had 12 or more in the 200 class.Myself ,Matt Kemp,Justin Putman and Fred Morrell raced both the 200 and open.Its harder when you run almost back to back.Matt Kemp did a great job putting your 500 around the track.Thats a sweet trike.I raced my 83 aircooled 200r in both classe at the last 2 races.

[barnett468]

Just curious, have you personally ever tried a reed spacer on a kdx200?

I have done back to back reed spacer tests on several different bikes, and in my experience, they typically simply "soften" the power band so the power delivery is more "smoother", which in fact means that in the cases where a spacer softens the power band, it has actually reduced the amount of power the engine has . unfortunately, reed spacers are not a universal upgrade for every bike . since i actually did development testing for a major mfg and had friends at ktm, honda, and yamaha whom worked in their r ad d departments, i know for a fact that ALL the mfgs do an enormous amount of engine testing before they release a product and put out the combo that they think is best for their particular app . they are all also very familiar with reed spacers since that idea had been around since at least 1977, and since it would only cost these mfg's a few pennies per unit to make this particular part, im pretty sure that if it gave their engines some type of advantage, they would have put one on them . i can guarantee you for a fact that if they gave a tecate an advantage, i would suggested to kawi that they put them on the production bikes which i did not.

Also, nobody i know on the national circuit used one . this is not to imply that nobody used one but i didnt see any out there and there certainly weren't any on jimmy's or chris's or donnie's or jackie's 3 wheelers and there wasn't one one on jeff wards bike or any of the other mx guys bikes and all these guys are looking for every advantage they can get and they all seemed to have won plenty f races and championships without one.

Jeff Fredette is also one of the winningest isde type racers in history and he won most of his races on a kdx and he has a business modifying kdxs and selling parts for them, and nowhere on his site does he list a reed spacer for a kdx or even mention one . if someone wants to get his opinion on this subject, they can simply contact him at the link i previously posted and ask him . it will only cost a quarter which certainly seems like a worthwhile investment to me.

Here it is again for anyone whom missed it and is interested.

Phone 708-946-0999

Site http://www.frpoffroad.com/aboutus.htm

With all this being said, im all for trying different things and wouldnt tell anyone not to . Even if the spacer does reduce the power in his particular build, he may still prefer the type of power the engine has with it, and they are certainly cheap enough and easy enough to install.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[barnett468]

.
oops, sorry, my question was for oldskool . gettin so old and decrepid now that i cant even remember exactly how many races i won.

[oldskool83]

I've had reed spacers on a few 2 strokes and it smooths them out down low better.

[DohcBikes]

Sounds interesting, yet another new career eh?.Well since 86t3 said he doesn't mind the banter, yes, and it is rather interesting. Some people never stop learning, and have a desire to acquire and hone skills that may not otherwise be learned if not through change.

[barnett468]

Barnett, watch thsome video. Jacob Hall's 33 trike is a 250r with a bone stock kdx200, the guy with the camera is Dwight Jeckel on a selvy 200r. The kdx definitely holds its own.

My cylinder needs plating so I'm just going to have it ported first, I don't want to go back and do it again. I won't have a blue frame, probably silver or maybe I'll go with this white again. Not really sure. This won't be a good looking build like my 500 was, I doubt I'll paint much more than the frame. It's a racer so it should look that way

Thanks for the video, it was fun to watch, however, I seriously doubt that his cylinder is box stock . I would think that Jason at least cleaned up the casting flaws in the ports which in itself will increase power a little, irregardless, as I mentioned, my comment about them needing to have rpm to be competitive was related to the higher skilled classes like intermediate and pro.

Below is a video of many top pros in a 200 cc National race which of course was won by a "TECATE....The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe!", and I guarantee you with 110% certainty that a stock or even mildy modified KDX engine will be humiliated by any of the others in this race . This also shows how highly competitive this class is at the higher levels, and that similar to a 125, these guys are either wide open or off the throttle for the turn . There simply is no 1/2 throttle racing or "torquing" out of the turn in this video which means that there is no need for decent bottom end or even lower mid range power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBM5lppypbs


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[atc300r]

Joe will you be racing this trike in the 200 2 stroke/350 four stroke class. How is your 450 holding up. I saw a couple of Raffas vids of you guys racing at Breezewood.

[3 Wheel Drive]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/1822690e316bc531be14b0aeab8fb226/tumblr_mz2c44qrFT1sezoa7o1_500.gif

[barnett468]

I've had reed spacers on a few 2 strokes and it smooths them out down low better.

Thanks for the reply, that is generally my experience also, and I do know there are some apps they are good for, but in my experience, those are few and far between.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[86T3]

That kdx motor is untouched Barnett. Jacob bought a piston and top end gaskets but they did the have time to do it. It even has a practically ripped carb boot.

Atc300r- yes, I want to race this in that class. Those built 200x's are incredible fast and there are a lot of good riders on them and 350xs. And 250f conversions and 200 2 strikes, lol. It's a fast class and it looked like a blast. The 450 is holding up great, I wish I could quit recking on it. I hit a mud puddle at smith road and took a nasty spill. Destroyed my grab bar but nothing else was ruined. It's built incredibly well

[atc300r]

That kdx motor is untouched Barnett. Jacob bought a piston and top end gaskets but they did the have time to do it. It even has a practically ripped carb boot.

Atc300r- yes, I want to race this in that class. Those built 200x's are incredible fast and there are a lot of good riders on them and 350xs. And 250f conversions and 200 2 strikes, lol. It's a fast class and it looked like a blast. The 450 is holding up great, I wish I could quit recking on it. I hit a mud puddle at smith road and took a nasty spill. Destroyed my grab bar but nothing else was ruined. It's built incredibly well When I raced my 200r at
Geneva I finished towards the back.Rich Lilly flys on his 200x and Fred smokes everyone Zack Morrell ,Matt Kemp and Justin Putman are fast.Sean and Dave Ridgway also fast.

[barnett468]

That kdx motor is untouched Barnett. Jacob bought a piston and top end gaskets but they did the have time to do it. It even has a practically ripped carb boot.

xlnt!

What did he use for a pipe?

The right pipe will increase the max rpm a little, and even just getting rid of the stock silencer they need to be mfg'd with will help.

I'm not suggesting that it needs to rev to 50,000 rpm like an old 125 Elsinore to be competitive in the higher level classes these days since they're aren't any Stevie Wright's or Jimmy Whites racing, I'm just saying that if you get at least around 500 rpm or a little more out of a stocker and get the compression up to around 195, and run the 607 reeds and an old school $100.00 VM36 Mikuni, and gear it right, it's going to be enough or close it for the more advanced classes, and that all this air striker and tripple V and XYZ force reeds and other expensive fancy stuff ain't gonna help you much, if any more at all, so it's basically unnecessary to buy this type of stuff, especially for a budget racer, and especially since a good pipe will set you back a fair amount of coin by itself.

I'm basically just trying to suggest things that I know from my own experience of having been there and done that for many years, will give you the most bang for the buck . You can obviously decide for yourself if you want to spend the additional cash on the glitter items.

I can also tell you that you should try advancing the timing just a little after you have everything done and do a few back to back tests . This is an area that many people don't consider that can definitely make anywhere from just a small difference to a fairly noticeable one, but always pay careful attention to detonation/pinging and spark plug color so as to not damage your engine.

Another thing I suggest if you run that much compression is going to a 1 step colder spark plug.

Also, a cool item to have and test with is a temperature gauge and they are fairly cheap . The one below is only $40.00 and they are easy to install.

I also like to run around 1/3rd coolant and some coolant additive like water wetter but a different brand and the rest distilled water and a slightly higher pressure cap . This will improve cooling slightly and prevent water from coming out of the cap . Leave around 1/2 inch of air space between the coolant and rad cap seating surface.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[RamsesRibb]

Our father who have hath been banned, Barnett be your name. Your three wheeler come it shall be done on Earth as it was at Kawasaki. Give us our daily bullsh*t and forgive us for using aftermarket staters as we forgive those who ride Hondas and lead us not to use pump gas, but deliver us only NOS Kawasaki parts.
That is pretty funny.

[atctim]

See if Jason can make it run on honey alone. I'm loving the name - it better have some sweet decals on it too! Will you be racing it with a cape, or no?

[86T3]

See if Jason can make it run on honey alone. I'm loving the name - it better have some sweet decals on it too! Will you be racing it with a cape, or no?

Crazy70man's bud light 250r last winter really made me want to do a bud lime Tecate. I was kinda thinking of doing this one, but maybe I should do some GB strickers. Can you race with an old rain jacket as a cape?

[barnett468]

Crazy70man's bud light 250r last winter really made me want to do a bud lime Tecate. I was kinda thinking of doing this one, but maybe I should do some GB strickers. Can you race with an old rain jacket as a cape?

I didn't see his bike but if you are on a budget and want to do lime green, you can buy aerosol cans of it from Colorrite on Ebay for $20.00 . One can would be enough to do the frame if you sprayed in on fairly closely . You could even paint the engine green then clean the paint off the raised letters so they stand.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111655136129?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true


If you spray can the frame, I would spray gloss clear lacquer over it after it dries for a couple days . You can get it from Home depot in Deft or Verathane brand and it will usually say "For Wood Finish".

This is Colorrite #777 here.

https://www.jmbperformance.com/colors/standard/limegreen.JPG


This is orig Kawi #777.

http://kzrider.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/elr1.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/qRkAAOSwIgNXik2E/$_35.JPG



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[bkm]

I will agree with Barn on one thing, Jeff Fredette is the absolute authority on anything KDX. You're in very good hands with Jason Hall, but don't be afraid to bend Jeff's ear on anything KDX related. He helped us out a ton sourcing parts on a friends 85 KDX200.

Joe, what pipe is Jacob using on his 200?

[86T3]

I can't remember, I think they used a 250r pipe. I'may racing with them Saturday, I'll ask and get some pics

[bkm]

Please do. This has me intrigued.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

Well since 86t3 said he doesn't mind the banter, yes, and it is rather interesting. Some people never stop learning, and have a desire to acquire and hone skills that may not otherwise be learned if not through change.

Valve body or manifold? The finish is a little rough. I'm assuming it's made in a pretty small mill?

[DohcBikes]

Valve body or manifold? The finish is a little rough. I'm assuming it's made in a pretty small mill?Yes it's a hydraulic manifold. Yes the finish is a little rough on that particular piece. I guess small would be relative, that block weighs 120 lbs with no valves or fittings in it.

[DohcBikes]

Here's some smaller ones. These would make nice chunks for triples.
235110

235111

235112

235113

[El Camexican]

There was nothing else in the original photo to judge the size by, they're much bigger than I thought they were. I was thinking they were about 20 inches long. How long is the bed of the mill that they make the surface passes on? Pretty cool, unfortunately with all those perforations any scrap parts wouldn't be good for a set of triples. Besides that it's pretty hard to convince anybody to pull tooling off the table so that you can make a part during lunch.

[DohcBikes]

We don't machine aluminum where I work. I never said we did. I said I had the resources, which means I have a readily available supply of billet aluminum that I can acquire at MUCH prices better than the norm, and believe it or not I also know a machinist or ten, some of the best I know work in buildings adjacent to my work.

Yea that first block is big. The large cartridges require 200ft/lbs of torque. Almost as much as mickeys 350x

[El Camexican]

We don't machine aluminum where I work. I never said we did. I said I had the resources, which means I have a readily available supply of billet aluminum that I can acquire at MUCH prices better than the norm, and believe it or not I also know a machinist or ten, some of the best I know work in buildings adjacent to my work.

Yea that first block is big. The large cartridges require 200ft/lbs of torque. Almost as much as mickeys 350x

I don't think I mentioned aluminum either. I just assumed you'd use steel, or cast iron based on some of your previous posts. The term "resources" is a little vague. It can mean anything from access to a machine shop to enough cash to pay someone make them.

[86T3]

Got some pics of the Hall's kdx 200/250r. The swing arm mount was moved an inch forward, combined with an 04-05 trx swing arm makes for a -2 length. The motor was bone stock at pine lake but has a new piston and port job now. The pipe is a dg 250r pipe with the kdx flange welded on. Jacob wine the lites class at Hamlin Speedway against some great competition of Dwight Jekyl on his selvy 200r and Bryan Ditch on his Mikey Dunlap full race 350x.
235146
235143
235152
235153

[barnett468]

.
Extremely cool, but where's the friggen video of the race?

I also think the Kawi engine is a GREAT upgrade to the Honda, and now with the rear end upgraded, all he needs to do is put some '86 forks on it from "The TECATE....The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe" and he should be unbeatable on any track!


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR


OMG...I think I just peed my pants....AGAIN!

...http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

[86T3]

Dwight usually posts videos of his races, I'll share the link k if he does

[Dirtcrasher]

I have it, Raffa probably does too. I'll get them uploaded to Youtube....

[3 Wheel Drive]

So Barnetts 30 year old stock kdx 200 engine has been whoopn up on all the Hondas including a full race Mickey Dunlap 350X? :crazy::crazy::crazy:

[El Camexican]

So Barnetts 30 year old stock kdx 200 engine has been whoopn up on all the Hondas including a full race Mickey Dunlap 350X? :crazy::crazy::crazy:

Yea, he's amazing. They almost changed the name to Mikeasaki back in the mid 80's.

[86T3]

The KDX is ported now. Yes, it won. Whoppn? I would go that far. Mickey's/ Ditch's 350 is a rocket, but like Gary Crum said, "Ain't no on running down a Hall after they get the lead" or something along those lines

[barnett468]

The KDX is ported now. Yes, it won. Mickey's/ Ditch's 350 is a rocket,

Just curious, what bike got the holeshot?



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[86T3]

200r. The kdx stood straight up and then touched tires with Derrick Adams. Ditch was very close. In the heat the kdx walked it, and ditch was in the other heat where he gapped everyone

[bkm]

I think a few here, for the sake of trying to start an argument or further an agenda, are focusing on the arrow and not the guy pulling the bow string back.

[bkm]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/32c756e41bba6dea003401fa45501036.gif

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[86T3]

Correctly interpreted Bryan. I'm all for fair and honest. It doesn't matter if I hate BDT or Mickey's (which I dont), I will give the fair and honest truth....that all are second to Kawasaki. Lol. But seriously, it's good for our sport to have some big hitters like Mickey and BDT coming to races, sponsoring races, and providing parts and help. At the track I saw 2 of these top 3 competitors in a class help the other top guy tear apart his motor and get it sealed up so he could compete against them. I'm not making this up either, we are a small but tight group.

[3 Wheel Drive]

I think a few here, for the sake of trying to start an argument or further an agenda, are focusing on the arrow and not the guy pulling the bow string back.

I think you really need to cool your jets & contain your jealousy. (Well you dont have a kdx, so you dont have jets) I dont see anyone arguing in this thread.

Id also like to commend 86T3 for his honesty and modesty those are excellent traits of a true winner. :beer .......The kdx simply walked past Mickys 350x Rocket, competition and the finishline.......:lol:

[fabiodriven]

So basically what I got out of this is that little Kawi walked all over the dyno busting big dough bike.

[bkm]

I think you really need to cool your jets & contain your jealousy. (Well you dont have a kdx, so you dont have jets) I dont see anyone arguing in this thread.

Id also like to commend 86T3 for his honesty and modesty those are excellent traits of a true winner. :beer .......The kdx simply walked past Mickys 350x Rocket, competition and the finishline.......:lol:
LOL, you forgot your popcorn! What exactly am I jealous of BTW? That way I can keep my jealous remarks on track.

[86T3]

So basically what I got out of this is that little Kawi walked all over the dyno busting big dough bike.

In the context of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, yes. But in the context of a race, no. Ditch was in first or second and clipped a tire at the end of the first lap. He spun out and came back from very far back, if not last place, to 3rd in a 10 lap race where the lap time was in the neighborhood of 22 seconds. Do the math. I know some people want Mickey to fail, some of these people might even have posters of him in their house, but I can say without any doubt, the 350x he built absolutely flies.

Edit: Dwight and Ditch are some of the best trike racers on the planet, but remember that Jacob has won Unadilla 3 times, is now a 2 x NEEDT series champ, won Pine Lake by a half lap against the best competition in the country, and is still a teenager. Even though 3 trikes raced on the same track, one of them had an advantage.

[3 Wheel Drive]

LOL, you forgot your popcorn! What exactly am I jealous of BTW? That way I can keep my jealous remarks on track.

That is a question for you to ask the man in the mirror.

https://media.giphy.com/media/9ahoHmfN37Uze/giphy.gif

[bkm]

That is a question for you to ask the man in the mirror.

https://media.giphy.com/media/9ahoHmfN37Uze/giphy.gif
You got me thinking now. Damn your Jedi Mind Tricks!

[fabiodriven]

Nobody wants anyone to fail, you're all winning! And it's an AUTOGRAPHED poster!!

PS- Bryan should change his name to Jelly Jelouson! He's GREEN with envy!

[El Camexican]

Nobody wants anyone to fail, you're all winning! And it's an AUTOGRAPHED poster!

I wish I had an AUTOGRAPHED poster.

[fabiodriven]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/7196e75e568315940b3368ac0f5b88d2.jpg

[El Camexican]

I'd like to think that the guy with the popcorn on his lap is looking at that poster.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/32c756e41bba6dea003401fa45501036.gif

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Dirtcrasher]

Chris Garneau was FAST!!

I believe he was number 89 or 87 but he was gettin some!!

There were a handful of fast talented racers at Hamlin, so glad I went...