84 Tecate Woes

[Frankencelery]

I finally got my Tecate back together after several months of apartedness (I just made up a new word...the state of a project where you know it's in pieces, but you can't remember where you were) and after a re-chromed cylinder, new piston and rings, it now starts on the first kick. That part is awesome. Unfortunately, the machine's annoying tendency to run for a few minutes and then just abruptly quit remains. In fact, I think it's worse! Took it out for 5 minutes and it suddenly died. It wouldn't start again an hour later either, so we towed it home. Next day it started right up again.

Something about that makes me think bad coil. I admit I haven't had the opportunity to actually check for lack of spark when it fails, because it seems like every time it happens, I'm just far enough away from my tools to be inconvenient! Anyone had this issue? I know how hard these things are to troubleshoot from just a description, but I thought if someone else said "Oh yeah, I've replaced 3 coils or CDIs on those over the years", that's what I'd try first.

[atc007]

Have you pulled the flywheel to make sure it is a one piece? If it's still 4 magnets,replace it with a Swinehart encapsulated flywheel. He will exchange for your old one. Check your stator coils ohms. That is most likely your problem. But yes, you will have to get a LOT more information,from a google search,and to give to us for further dx.I personally would not start it again until you know you have a solid flywheel in there. Then, make it die and check for spark.

[Frankencelery]

Have you pulled the flywheel to make sure it is a one piece? If it's still 4 magnets,replace it with a Swinehart encapsulated flywheel. He will exchange for your old one. Check your stator coils ohms. That is most likely your problem. But yes, you will have to get a LOT more information,from a google search,and to give to us for further dx.I personally would not start it again until you know you have a solid flywheel in there. Then, make it die and check for spark.

The original stator torpedoed a few years back, so it's got a Ricky Stator in it....but the flywheel is OEM.

Not a bad idea...what does John charge for those?

[fabiodriven]

When mine did that the stator was bad.


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[RubberSalt]

Sounds like you are in the same boat as me. It was acting the and yours. Turns out after 2 oem stators, rewinding several of my own stators, buying Ricky's stator, 2 flywheels, then 3 ignition coils, and a handful of plugd. It was the cdi.

Ohm out the stator. Ohm out or replace he ignition coil and plug. Check the magnetism on the flywheel with a screwdriver. The magnets should all stick decently well.

[cochran]

What Fab said.

[RubberSalt]

The stators are a common part to go on these. Take the multimeter to it, it should be within spec for the book.

I've played with several of he stators, everyone I got my hand on was on the lower side of he resistance for the books tolerance. I've wrapped extra wire on the source coil(the big one). That helped out for a bit, but ultimately failed.

If your into diy and want to wind your own stator.. the Tecate likes 33-34g magnet wire. Use a drill to do the winding and a coffee stir to guide the wire.

On of these days I'll make a video. It's to simple and cheap. Over winding the source coil=hotter spark.

[Frankencelery]

Well, I took some measurements of stator windings, ignition coil, and CDI, so I have a baseline. Tomorrow I will take it out and ride until it fails then take measurements again, and see if I can find the culprit.

[RubberSalt]

What are your measurements?

[tecat-z]

Sounds like a CDI. Years back we had one that did the exact thing thing.

[Frankencelery]

What are your measurements?

Here's the measurements. I spoke them to Evernote, so forgive me if the wording is strange:



Electrical measurements taken with Craftsman digital multimeter. On 200 ohm range multimeter gives a .3 ohm short measurement of cables only.

Ignition coil primary winding is .7 ohms
Ignition coil secondary winding taken on 20K ohm range measures 5.87 K ohms

Stator measurements
Red to Black measured on 2000 ohm Range measurement is 205 ohms
Red to blue measures 25 ohms
Black to blue measures 180 ohms

Measurements of CDI / ignition module
Red / yellow to Black 1.488 megohms. This is measured on the 2000k ohms scale.
Negative probe is on red / yellow positive probe is on black.
Blue to Black measurement is 237 K ohms
Negative probe is on Blue, positive probe is on black


BTW, work is kicking my ass, so I haven't had time to actually ride it and take measurements after failure yet.

[RubberSalt]

Black and Blue looks weak. Do you have another source coil? Getting this to 195 ohm+ will probably take care of your troubles. The manual says 170, this is way to low.

This is what I'm thinking.
Odds are that the wire's enamel coating is burnt up somewhere deep inside the coil. When it heats up further, it expands and shorts out to ground, which is fine on this coil. At this point, little or not enough current is being produced, hence, no fire.

I've found ignition coils from Ricky Stator for $53 (https://www.rickystator.com/product/stators/kawasaki/kawasaki-tecate-3-ignition-stator-coils).

If you don't mind soldering and winding your own coils, you can do it for much much less. The OEM coils use 34g wire, but 33 works as good, if not better. It also provides more life(because 30 years is not enough lol).With 33g, you can stuff about 1100ft of wire on these. It gives for a nice hot spark.

Simply remove the old wire, wrap the iron in tape, wrap wire around the tape(leave a piece sticking out so you can solder to it later). Use a drill to spin the Iron and use a coffee stirr or straw to guide the wire as it turns. Once the prep work is done, it takes just a few minutes to turn 1000 feet of wire. scratch the side of the wire and measure the resistance between the piece sticking out and the scratched part. Keep winding until you get plenty of wire on there. Over stuffing:These will touch the inside of the flywheel before the outside, sooo.. yea.

Heres some $9 33g wire. http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-AWG-Gauge-Magnet-Wire-Natural-1550-200C-Enameled-Copper-Coil-Winding-/262552661960?hash=item3d215bafc8:m:mW0OhS3jkRgPAVz 0qqHellg

The trigger coil is a much lower voltage/current producing coil. It has a narrower range for resistance and needs to stay within the 20-30 ohm range when using 34g wire. For 33g wire, that changes to 16.5-24.5 ohms.

[Frankencelery]

I don't have another coil. I bought this Ricky Stator new about 2 years ago and the machine has had about an hour on it since, so I don't WANT to believe it's that. However, I've since heard here on 3WW that a fair amount of people have had trouble with Ricky Stators. If it does turn out to be that, at least I can replace just the one coil. When I bought the complete stator and plate a couple years ago it was about $125.

While I am a bit of an electronics nerd, I probably won't wind my own unless it's absolutely necessary.

So I guess next is to run it, try to get it to fail, and see if I can see a change in the resistance reading. Might be a couple days to get back to it.

[RubberSalt]

Come to think of it, I never checked the resistance of my new stator. I picked up the Ricky Stator for $125 some time ago. If i get some time, I'mma ohm it out and see what I get.

It's possible that they are using the 33g wire opposed to the 34. If that's the case, the lower resistance should be ok.

If all else fails, Send me the coil or the Stator, and I'll rewind it at no cost. I've got plenty of wire sitting around not being used. I've also managed to fit a YT125/175 source coil into these, had to slot the bolt holes on the coil about a 1mm, but it fit.

I think I'm going to 3d print a jig so quickly prep these and wind them.

[RubberSalt]

I shall print these tonight!

233939
233940
233941

should make chucking the iron into a drill much easier.

[nd4speed]

Maybe the coil is getting hot and cutting out? Mine did that, and if you would let it cool some, you could ride for awhile.

Sure the motor isnt over heating? Lean? Timing? Low Octane fuel?

[RubberSalt]

Maybe the coil is getting hot and cutting out? Mine did that, and if you would let it cool some, you could ride for awhile.

I was havng trouble with my machine acting the same recently. It turns out that nd4speed was spot on. My 2 year old Ricky Stator was crapping out. It was the source coil. I tested the issue with heat. Confirmed that was this was a direct factor. I received 3 different measurements on the source coil.

Cold: 184 ohms
wam: 160 ohms
hot:0 ohms.

I just rewound mine last night after receiving that. I'm going to do a full write up on it after bit. I took a hand full of pictures.

Here's a couple shots that more or less explain how it's done on the cheap. With 33g magnet wire, I was able to wind it to 160 ohms. More than enough with this stuff. 34g wire would probably be a better option. Should be able to hit 200 ohms no problem.

I pulled 35g off the stator.

234071 234072

[Frankencelery]

Wow, great job on this. Meanwhile, I'm so lame I haven't even gotten the gas tank back on to test ride after taking measurements!

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[Frankencelery]

Finally put it back together, started on the first kick, put it in gear and it went 10 feet and died. Wouldn't start again. I have visible spark, but it looks like it might be a little weak. So now I have no idea what to do. This doesn't follow the troubleshooting pattern I was expecting.

I suppose I should have taken measurements again, but I was so annoyed I rolled it back into the garage and slammed the door on the damned thing.

[christph]

I would check the stator first as they are the most frequent part to go. When they heat up the resistance increases, making the problem intermittent. I had one that worked fine when kicking it over cold, but it would fail once it heated up.

[RubberSalt]

Frankencelery, send me your stator, I'll rewind it for free.

[Frankencelery]

Wow, that's a heck of a nice offer! I will send you a PM later.

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[Frankencelery]

Got back to the Tecate tonight. Been busy as heck, so I haven't had a chance to even glance in the Tecate's direction for a week! If you remember, the original plan was to run it until it failed and then take measurements. Then the very next time I started it up, it died and wouldn't start again. I had spark, but we weren't sure if it was good enough spark.

One shot of starting fluid into the UNI filter and it started right up. Ran great for the 10 minutes I was able to ride it. Started it 4 times this evening and it started on the first kick. Haven't gotten it to fail yet, but it's sure looking like a carb problem, probably the idle circuit. I had cleaned it when I put it back together, but....

[Frankencelery]

Quick update- I've ridden it twice since then, once a quick 5-minute ride, and then last night for a good half hour. No sign of the previous problems, not with starting or cutting out. How weird is that? I definitely had a spark problem when I started this thread...maybe taking everything apart to measure resistances fixed an intermittent connection. Then suddenly it vapor-locked (that's what I'm gonna call it anyway) and threw me off the trail. Once I hit it with starting fluid once, it's been starting on one kick ever since!

[RubberSalt]

Can you, in more detail, decribe the vapor lock?