Another one...

[loganm]

Are we taking bets this time? Finished putting it together today. New head studs, bore, piston, gaskets, and some (very) mild carb porting.

Turned the idle speed up all the way then backed the air screw out until it would idle on its own. Upped the main to a 160 (from 140, stock is 152) for break in, mixed at 20:1. I know, "oil technology improvements bs", but I'm not taking any chances, it's what the manual recommends anyways.

Let it idle for about 15 minutes with a fan on it. It's humid and 70ish today, didn't get very hot at all.


https://youtu.be/EpNZPIbBJrA

[averysdad]

How hot was it ? I have a temp gage like that if I remember correctly mine gets up around 300f seems pretty hot to me. Maybe my 15$ gage isn't accurate. Smells hot from time to time that's when I shut it off lol. How hot should the air cooled 250r run?

That one sure sounds a lot different than mine?

[loganm]

It was around 130F. It should idle around 155F with some airflow on a cool day, at least in my experience. 300F is close to seizing on mine. It sounds different cause there's no silencer. Not riding it until I put one on.

I'd shut it off immediately if temps get to 300. Obviously you can't watch it while riding hard, but if it's close to 300 with easy riding that's not good.

[JesseA420]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQT2PHrWUAAEd4U.png

[averysdad]

I think it was 300f I'll check next time I ride it I know I can't touch the jug for more than 1 sec. Its jetted on the rich side on the pilot and main as far as I can tell don't know why it would be running hot? I never really ride it easy and there's never really a cool day in Houston tx lol.

[roostin atc]

Leak down test first, then jet. Log jamming lol

[yaegerb]

Running hot is relative unless someone can produce heat tolerances for an air cooled Honda. I will admit I haven't searched for such literature but you may be able to drop a note to Selvy, Carlos, Klemm or hall and they might be able to tell you. It might also be worth investing in a trail tech temp gauge. I have one on my shee and my rule of thumb is if it gets above 190, shut it down. All motors are different and I would venture to guess an air cooled 250r has a wider range of heat fatigue than its water cooled cousins. If you don't want to invest in a temp gauge then keep reading your plugs. And another item to note. Air cooled motors don't do well sitting unless you have a massive fan blowing air over the fins. When I heat cycle a freshly rebuilt air cooled motor I have a huge industrial fan blowing on it at high speeds. Keep it moving, read your plugs or get a temp sensor and it should last you a while.

[loganm]

Well, RELATIVELY, I seized the top end up at (I'm guessing) ~325F. I know I have seen it still running at 300F. If it seizes up solid and is too hot to touch, and you pull it apart and there are signs of a piston seizure...

I'm not running a leak-down test rn, I was thorough enough when I built it.

[yaegerb]

Well, RELATIVELY, I seized the top end up at (I'm guessing) ~325F. I know I have seen it still running at 300F. If it seizes up solid and is too hot to touch, and you pull it apart and there are signs of a piston seizure...

I'm not running a leak-down test rn, I was thorough enough when I built it.

I wasn't responding to your post, I was responding to averydad's post. And honestly I could give a shite less what you do with your bike.

[loganm]

I wasn't responding to your post, I was responding to averydad's post. And honestly I could give a shite less what you do with your bike.

Except beat you in a race >_>

[bkm]

To answer your question, and since you touched it, I'd be surprised if it made it back to your house.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Onetrackmind]

Except beat you in a race >_>

Oh good. YOU'RE back. [emoji106]

[averysdad]

Thanks for your reply yaegerb. I thought Loganm grow up and was done with the rude I know every thing teenage drama. I just wanted to talk air cooled 250r s and he just wants to be disrespectful to people trying to help the both of us that's messed up. I'm not looking at this thread any more its going to be a soap opera just like the last one.

[Scootertrash]

The Top End Terrorist returns..............

[tripledog]

Except beat you in a race >_>

<_< To buy yet ANOTHER piston.

[loganm]

<_< To buy yet ANOTHER piston.

No they gave me a free wossner with it this time. Kinda used, but I'll run it :thumbsup:

[3wheelrider]

I'm not running a leak-down test rn, I was thorough enough when I built it.[/QUOTE]

^^^Big mistake^^^ -no matter how confident of your work or how good you are-
there could easily be something you overlook or dont realize & you wouldnt know until-well...
"Oh Oh -better get Wiseco"
A "leak" could have nothing to do with the builder. Crank seals can be damaged or surfaces can have issues among other things.

Oh yeah-Wiseco is NOT the problem....

[loganm]

I have never seen anyone anywhere obsess over a leak down test like the members of this site. But everyone on this site is 100% expert, so no doubt about it. My crank could have a hairline crack on the ignition side too, just because. Better pull it and have it sent to a lab too right?

It's the Internet guys, no need to take it so seriously, and no need to take my posts so seriously either. I will subconsciously try to get at all of you without even me knowing.

Just drop this argument. I won't blow this one up.

[tripledog]

^^^ Affirmative. Def recommend pulling your crank. Again.

[3wheelrider]

Another one for the ignore list.....good luck BOZO

[Jmoozy27]

Guess we all have our bad habits...
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=232059&stc=1
Some know how to keep it under wraps...

[tripledog]

Guess we all have our bad habits...
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=232059&stc=1
Some know how to keep it under wraps...

^^^ Wow, Bette is looking awfull these days.

[AK47KID]

I have never seen anyone anywhere obsess over a leak down test like the members of this site. But everyone on this site is 100% expert, so no doubt about it. My crank could have a hairline crack on the ignition side too, just because. Better pull it and have it sent to a lab too right?

It's the Internet guys, no need to take it so seriously, and no need to take my posts so seriously either. I will subconsciously try to get at all of you without even me knowing.

Just drop this argument. I won't blow this one up.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/fb7b544f36c1229d96fc44706205aaec.jpg i rest my case...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[AK47KID]

The Top End Terrorist returns..............
ROFLMFAOSFH

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[Scootertrash]

^^^ Affirmative. Def recommend pulling your crank. Again.

If he pulls his crank much more he'll get blisters. Of course its quite possible he's built up callouses already.

[loganm]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/fb7b544f36c1229d96fc44706205aaec.jpg i rest my case...

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Uhhhh no, wrong. My wrenches are strung out all over the work area...

[AK47KID]

Uhhhh no, wrong. My wrenches are strung out all over the work area...
Even the 13MM??? Didn't know honda used 13 mm bolts....

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[JesseA420]

It's the Internet guys, no need to take it so seriously, and no need to take my posts so seriously either.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/84/35/76/843576ff0da2ecd163d499e5d4bc16d0.jpg

[Jd110]

Good morning guys. Wanted to give you a few words of my own: friendliness & respect. I really like this site. But now when I see these comments it's like a stinky stench surrounds this place.
Admittedly, I've been a culprit and soon learning by a few members here(I'm indebted to)something not about trikes. How to treat people on the internet. It CAN be how you treat your Neibor, friends & family. I don't do Facebook, so this is it.
One more thing. 30 years ago growing up here population was 20k we saw someone, even another town, stick an arm out to say hi. Nowadays at 60k +, if you did that folk would hit the brakes wondering what's wrong. Some locals are getting a bad attitude and resentful. Seems a little of that is happening here. For at least the sake of this site and the ones involved .

Good day to you guys,David

[loganm]

Even the 13MM??? Didn't know honda used 13 mm bolts....

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Believe me or not, 13mm head bolts actually exist. I don't think I've seen one on a Honda though.

[AK47KID]

Believe me or not, 13mm head bolts actually exist. I don't think I've seen one on a Honda though.
...why would they make a 13 or 11 or a 9 MM wrench if they didn't exist?....#stupid^

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[DohcBikes]

Why doesn't anyone shut this b.s. down? Admittedly, lack of moderation is probably the only reason I'm still around, but this stuff is killing this site. It's a morgue in here, even compared to just a few years ago. There's no ebb and flow anymore, only ebb. Do something before it's too late.

To everyone contributing, rise above this trash. If I can do it, anyone can.

[loganm]

...why would they make a 13 or 11 or a 9 MM wrench if they didn't exist?....#stupid^

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It was a joke >_>

[AK47KID]

It was a joke >_>
Sorry to tell you this but you suck at joke telling....anyways ill watch what you do. Top end terrorist..

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[Dirtcrasher]

...why would they make a 13 or 11 or a 9 MM wrench if they didn't exist?....#stupid^

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If you use your local hardware store, the M8 x 1,25 pitched bolts do have a 13MM or 1/2" bolt heads.

Japan makes them differently and more like were use to...

[loganm]

If you use your local hardware store, the M8 x 1,25 pitched bolts do have a 13MM or 1/2" bolt heads.

Japan makes them differently and more like were use to...

Japanese metric is what I've heard them called. I can't find them anywhere locally. I try to avoid replacing them with the larger head "European" metric unless I replace all of them.

[loganm]

Uhhh im confident now that after two failures idk what the hell IM doing with this. I've ran 4 heat cycles, two short light rides, retorqued the base and head bolts. 152 main, needle bumped up a clip. It won't free rev standing still, still bogs. By my understanding they didn't have a rev limiter first two years. It seems to run fine riding it, I haven't tried running it hard, still breaking it in. My silencer hasn't came yet either so I want to avoid any prolonged periods or riding (more than a few minutes). I actually don't want to get on it at all until I've ran through this first tank of fuel, at least.

Airfoolers.com has a break-in guide which is completely anal, more than I would like to do, but it is a site dedicated to ATCs with this motor after all.

[83ATC185]

Uhhh im confident now that after two failures idk what the hell IM doing with this....It won't free rev standing still, still bogs... Airfoolers.com has a break-in guide which is completely anal, more than I would like to do

My advice. Sell it to a member here cheap, preferably one who has dreamed of having one for years, and buy a new side by side or something and let those with a little patience and a willingness to learn have their fun.

You cut corners. Every time i've done that i've gotten burned. You get out what you put in.

Granted my luck seemed a whole lot better before i knew any better.

[loganm]

My advice. Sell it to a member here cheap, preferably one who has dreamed of having one for years, and buy a new side by side or something and let those with a little patience and a willingness to learn have their fun.

You cut corners. Every time i've done that i've gotten burned. You get out what you put in.

Granted my luck seemed a whole lot better before i knew any better.

Yeah that's what I want to do, finance a $20K piece of Polaris scrap. Lol. Maybe if I were trying to win the most ill-advised purchase of the year award. Worth 40x what I paid for my car, and my car would still be more reliable.

Obviously I am willing to learn, I taught myself how to rebuild the bottom end. I won't pawn an unfinished project off on someone else, I've far eclipsed the point of coming out ahead fiscally, so the only real way I will come out ahead is if I finish this. I don't give up as easily as you.

[AK47KID]

Hahahahahahahah DONT MAKE ME LAUGH^^^

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[loganm]

How could I, you don't get jokes.

[86T3]

I don't think I've had any more anticipation for first ride than this one. When is that silencer showing up?

[82 250r]

Jetting rich for a new break-in can glaze the cylinder and your rings wont seat properly. Stock jetting is where you should be until the motor is ready to be jetted. There are reasons for being anal about a breakin procedure.
20-1 oil will lean the air fuel ratio. You have less gas in 20-1 mix for a given amount of air. Todays 32-1 is yesterdays 20-1.

You cannot seat the rings without cylinder pressure.
You cannot create cylinder pressure without running it moderate to hard.
You cannot run it moderate to hard without a silencer.

My friend...i't appears you are repeating the same mistakes...i'm not sure why.
The things you are doing may make "sense" to you...nevertheless, they are still wrong.
I hope this helps
Marc

[Scootertrash]

We've been thru all this shyte with him before. He won't listen. He knows it all, especially the price of pistons.

Why do you think nobody is trying to give him advice anymore.

Read the "How many pistons" thread.

[loganm]

Yes of course, repeating the same mistakes, that's why I bought a silencer, that's why I'm running the stock main.

20:1 is what the manual says. Even with the improvements im oil technology (read: not that much) 20:1 is 20:1 whether you're using premix designed in the 1980s or 2016, it's the same amount of oil in the gas. On top of that, Mercury(?) did a test, 18:1 is actually the optimal ratio for power in a 2 stroke, it's just not efficient. It's an air cooled 2 stroke, it will naturally require more oil than a liquid cooled engine due to the fact that it will run hotter.

Youre trying to help, and so is everyone else. The problem is, your advice, along with everyone else's, is contradicting. So obviously there are varied opinions on the subject. Everyone thinks they're right, everyone is an expert, and all these correct experts all have different opinions.

[82 250r]

18:1 is actually the optimal ratio for power in a 2 stroke, it's just not efficient. It's an air cooled 2 stroke, it will naturally require more oil than a liquid cooled engine due to the fact that it will run hotter.
.

Optimal Ratio but not efficient? Hmm...that sounds like a contradiction.
The "more oil than a liquid cooled" thing is new to me. If you know that to be true, I'd be interested in learning more.

[atc007]

You should look into knitting Logan. Life is tough,,,but it's a lot harder when you make it. To break in any engine,you ride it,you do NOT let a air cooled engine sit there and idle with no load in front of a fan. Too mention revving it...

[83ATC185]

Youre trying to help, and so is everyone else. The problem is, your advice, along with everyone else's, is contradicting. So obviously there are varied opinions on the subject. Everyone thinks they're right, everyone is an expert, and all these correct experts all have different opinions.

Everyone has an opinion, sure, but a shop manual is a shop manual. I'm pretty sure(maybe 98%?) that the problems you face are covered in that manual.

I'm interested in seeing you get this thing going! I have faith in you! Follow the manual. Everyone has to start somewhere. I have trouble with carbs sometimes myself. Ive never split cases. But when the time comes, I will prepare myself as well as i can with a shop manual and advice from these boards, clean off the bench and have a go at it, realizing that i may indeed have to take it back apart and study it to find where i went wrong. Such is life. Peace...

[loganm]

You should look into knitting Logan. Life is tough,,,but it's a lot harder when you make it. To break in any engine,you ride it,you do NOT let a air cooled engine sit there and idle with no load in front of a fan. Too mention revving it...

Where are you getting this information?


Optimal Ratio but not efficient? Hmm...that sounds like a contradiction.
The "more oil than a liquid cooled" thing is new to me. If you know that to be true, I'd be interested in learning more.

Because they run hotter. It's not efficient because it spews oil out the exhaust and clogs up power valves.

What puzzles me is why oil companies suggest using less oil, if anything they should suggest you use more so you buy more oil.

[bkm]

We've been thru all this shyte with him before. He won't listen. He knows it all, especially the price of pistons.

Why do you think nobody is trying to give him advice anymore.

Read the "How many pistons" thread.
This is pretty much "it" in a nutshell. Advise to this guy is futile, actually he wants people to give him advise not to follow it, but to attempt to dispel it and somehow make himself look smarter than everyone else.

This is also the same guy who said he was leaving the forum, than posted again hours later and hasn't lived up to his anticipated promise.

The best advise you could give to this guy is silence, or is it silencer?

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[loganm]

This is pretty much "it" in a nutshell. Advise to this guy is futile, actually he wants people to give him advise not to follow it, but to attempt to dispel it and somehow make himself look smarter than everyone else.

This is also the same guy who said he was leaving the forum, than posted again hours later and hasn't lived up to his anticipated promise.

The best advise you could give to this guy is silence, or is it silencer?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

"Take it to a shop" isn't advice. Neither is "the cylinder was bored completely wrong, send it to John tice, he's the only person on the planet that knows how to bore cylinders." Not knocking your ability John, but you're not the only person on the planet with cylinder boring capabilities, contrary to what 3ww thinks.

[atctim]

"Take it to a shop" isn't advice.

According to the English language, it sure as heck is advice. Advice that I think at this point you should listen to.

ad·vice
ədˈvīs/
noun



guidance or recommendations concerning prudent future action, typically given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or authoritative.

[DohcBikes]

Where are you getting this information?



Where is Bill getting his information? You gotta be kidding me Logan. Its called EXPERIENCE. LOTS OF EXPERIENCE.

Shut your mouth and open your ears.

[loganm]

Where is Bill getting his information? You gotta be kidding me Logan. Its called EXPERIENCE. LOTS OF EXPERIENCE.

Shut your mouth and open your ears.

What about the experienced people that told me that I do in fact have to do heat-cycles? This is the kinda stuff I'm talking about.

[loganm]

If your eaton fuller 9 speed is worn out enough you can slam it into a lower gear @2500 and roll on the jakes to disturb the peace.

[AK47KID]

Take it from the duke ......you don`t drive a stick !:p:p:Bounce:p:Bounce:p:Bounce
I could steal a stick shift....

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[AK47KID]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160526/47da1ad8438ae002711594c4640e256f.jpg bawahahahah!!! This guy cant even spell 'respect' how bout you respect these members, eh?

VERSION 2.0 of loogie getting mad at me...lol

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[loganm]

More unfortunate news. I pulled the head off to see why one of my studs wasn't tightening up, it's pulling out of the threads. I also see signs of a cold seizure, light marks on each four corners. I don't get it, I let this thing warm up before I even touch the throttle, let alone ride it.

Edit: screw it, I'm taking it in to JSR. Something weird is going on with this engine.

[AK47KID]

Finally

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[Scootertrash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

[Scootertrash]

Yes of course, repeating the same mistakes, that's why I bought a silencer, that's why I'm running the stock main.

The stock main with no silencer :rolleyes:


Youre trying to help, and so is everyone else. The problem is, your advice, along with everyone else's, is contradicting. So obviously there are varied opinions on the subject. Everyone thinks they're right, everyone is an expert, and all these correct experts all have different opinions.

There has been a consistent line of advice from multiple members in your "pistons" thread, but you're too busy being a know-it-all to pick up on it, I'll shorten it up to make it easy:

Start jetting from stock

Do your break-in with a complete, functioning exhaust

You're trying to tune a motor with an incomplete exhaust. How can you dial in your main jet without a complete, properly functioning exhaust?

4 corner scoring?

From smellslikedeath.com:


FOUR-CORNER SEIZURE

This piston has vertical seizure marks at four equally spaced points around the circumference. A four-corner seizure is caused when the piston expands faster than the cylinder and the clearance between the piston and cylinder is reduced. The main causes for this problem are too quick warm-up, too lean carb jetting (main jet), or too hot of a spark plug range.[/B]

Quit trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro with it until you've got a complete functioning exhaust fer facks sake.

ETA: From THIS SITE CARB JETTING 101:

Proper Jetting Procedure


The first step is to get your Main Jet dialed in. This circuit should be done first because it has a trickle down effect.

The Main Jet effects your performance most noticably at WOT. You do not fix a low throttle problem by changing your main jet. When the main is correct, there should be no sputtering or bogging at WOT.

After your main jet is dialed in, it's time to move on to the needle.

The Needle effects performance from approximately 1/4 throttle to 2/3 throttle. If you're experiencing performance issues in this throttle range but your main jet is correct, this is where you fix it.

Now it's time to adjust the pilot jet and air screw.

This is how I adjust my pilot jet. If anyone has a better technique, chime in.

If the engine does not quickly return to idle after a good rev, it's too lean and needs a bigger pilot jet. If there's bogging when taking off or reving from idle, it's too rich. These problems can often be tuned out with the air screw.

There's a couple techniques for the pilot/air screw. One that I've heard is to set the idle somewhat high, tighten the air screw until the motor starts to die, then loosen it until it starts to die again, then set the screw right in the middle between these two points, then adjust the idle. I haven't tried that technique, personally.

The way I do it is basically by checking off idle throttle response. Adjust it both ways until you get a clean response when you stab the throttle.

When adjusting the air screw, tightening the screw is richer and loosening it is leaner. This is because tightening the screw allows less air to pass (resulting in more fuel in the mixture which = richer), loosening it lets more air through. Edit: depending on the carb, it's possible that this adjustment might be the opposite. Some experimentation will show you which way does what. The type above is the most common with 3 wheelers.


You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think

[Scootertrash]

Shut your mouth and open your ears.


Why doesn't anyone shut this b.s. down? Admittedly, lack of moderation is probably the only reason I'm still around, but this stuff is killing this site. It's a morgue in here, even compared to just a few years ago. There's no ebb and flow anymore, only ebb. Do something before it's too late.

To everyone contributing, rise above this trash. If I can do it, anyone can. :rolleyes:

*snort*

[Scootertrash]

Good morning guys. Wanted to give you a few words of my own: friendliness & respect. I really like this site. But now when I see these comments it's like a stinky stench surrounds this place.
Admittedly, I've been a culprit and soon learning by a few members here(I'm indebted to)something not about trikes. How to treat people on the internet. It CAN be how you treat your Neibor, friends & family. I don't do Facebook, so this is it.
One more thing. 30 years ago growing up here population was 20k we saw someone, even another town, stick an arm out to say hi. Nowadays at 60k +, if you did that folk would hit the brakes wondering what's wrong. Some locals are getting a bad attitude and resentful. Seems a little of that is happening here. For at least the sake of this site and the ones involved .

Good day to you guys,David

Captain Compression brought all of this on himself.

Friendliness and respect are reciprocal things. If you treat people like crap you don't make friends. Respect is earned, not given.

Logjam came here as a noob and asked advice, then sh!t on everybody who gave him the proper advice to his problems. If that's not disrespectful I don't know what is. You reap what you sow. F'n millenials seem to think they DESERVE respect. I got news for ya, you need to earn it just like everybody has in the past.

For the most part this site is very nice and personable. The 1% of threads that end up going like this are not going to flush this site down the crapper. Do we have spirited differences of opinion sometimes? You bet we do! Everybody on this site has at least ONE THING IN COMMON: Three Wheelers. After that all bets are off because everybody has different likes and dislikes for other things in life. we're gonna give each other sh!t from time to time and I'll guarantee you that the members of 3WW will make sure that a-holes, d-bags, and Richard Craniums are made to toe the line. The members here do a pretty good job of policing the site.

Pandering to the lowest common denominator is not beneficial to the site nor does it accomplish anything positive. Neither does making them appear to be a "victim".

Your Mileage May Vary. Have A Pleasant evening.

[Dirtcrasher]

" Let it blow, let it blow, the rest of us still know......."

[82 250r]

You are riding it without a silencer, & without being broken in & you wonder why it is showing signs of a cold seize.
You are repeating the same mistakes...& I don't know why.

My favorite part is when you ask Bill "where are you getting this information" THAT tells everyone here that you don't get it and you're not willing to learn from those who have "been there and done that"

At some point you need to stop doing what makes "sense" to you & learn from those who have already made the mistakes.

[loganm]

The purpose of a silencer is just that, SILENCE. That's the purpose of a silencer on a 2 stroke. You know what an FMF shorty looks like? It's barely 6" long. It's only there to silence.

[82 250r]

^ok_______

[Jd110]

Scooter-fair enough

[AK47KID]

I second that ^^ok______

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[AK47KID]

Anyone else get their PM molested like i did? Some weirdo with username loganm keeps sending me spam...:wondering:

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[tripledog]

I think you have the ultra rare Pirate Edition, otherwise known as a 250 RRRRRRRR. Thar she blows. AGAIN.

[AK47KID]

I think you have the ultra rare Pirate Edition, otherwise known as a 250 RRRRRRRR. Thar she blows. AGAIN.
Lol you need to get your own comedy show

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[loganm]

232138

I took a few pictures I forgot about. None of these marks were there when I got it, the flash makes them look like actual scratches, but I can't feel them. They are not nearly as visible in person. The piston doesn't have any marks I could see through the exhaust port.

[AK47KID]

I keep getting spam from loganm...

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[tripledog]

I keep getting spam from loganm...

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At least you don't have Monty Python after you.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIHOwUdXV3QAO0M0nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBzaT c4cHE1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDNDE-?p=monty+python+spam&vid=260926353cbe0665a4617409c89e30a2&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP .V007a442279a52a7713d01ab91d520854%26pid%3D15.1%26 h%3D208%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dk okpuNngnJc&tit=Monty+Python+-+The+Origin+of+SPAM&c=40&h=208&w=300&l=104&sigr=11b6tgdqb&sigt=111dmvq0r&sigi=131uckt1r&age=1257374528&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-avast-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=avast&type=agc511&tt=b

[tommerp]

Can we all chip in a couple bucks and get this poor Honda into a shop? It hurts my head to know how bad it's life has been..... I believe some dogs in the pound have been treated better...

+Loganm .. please please... we are all begging you... just bring it somewhere, anywhere, get it fixed, and enjoy that trike... It's way more fun to ride than repair over and over.

[yaegerb]

232138

I took a few pictures I forgot about. None of these marks were there when I got it, the flash makes them look like actual scratches, but I can't feel them. They are not nearly as visible in person. The piston doesn't have any marks I could see through the exhaust port.


Go get your money back. Notice there's no chamfers on those ports.....wooops

[AK47KID]

Im still getting spam...!

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[onformula1]

Im still getting spam...!

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On your phone or PM?

[Mosh]

The members here do a pretty good job of policing the site.

I agree with everything this quote came from, except this quote.
I do feel that a tight knit community is important to have, however it also permits a "mob mentality" at times as well as a popularity segregation in some cases. There is also a lot of "false heroism" that comes from this type of action left unchecked. It creates a false panel of experts in some cases that just regeritates popular opinion, to fit in in hopes of gaining acceptance. 2 threads from this guy launching pistons spanning some 30 pages...Its rediculous. 10 years ago he probably would have been booted by the end of the first thread and the members would have said piss off long ago and ignored the resulting extra 20 pages of nonsense.

When you open the main tech forum, and find threads titled "look at this douch" .....that is not a member self moderation thing. When you have members that have torn down supporters and workers of this forum that actually made it worthile, then turn around and complain about no moderation, when they fought moderators at every turn, and the self proclaimed " good police members" were no where to be found when the good people were being driven out, that is not member policing...That is poetic justice, when former and current problem members now complain of "lack of moderation".

So now, you get a influx of this horshiat...and some of you all feed off of it, and keep putting gas in the tank. I have respect and relationships for quite a few of you in these threads, but some of you guys have become that very same spark that keeps these blazes reignited and really should recognize this trolling and rise above it sooner than let it get this far.

I seriously think we have a few members with alter egos creating multiple accounts in a jekyll and hyde fashion. Just for the sake of generating self entertainment and confidence... I cant imagine anyone desperate, disturbed or lonely enough to initate that type of pointless effort and waste of time, but hell anything is possible these friggin days.

It is widely known that there is a certain member here that rubs me wrong in most cases with his post content and limerick text song quotes, but I do agree with him on one of his views, and that is resistance to be accepted and swayed by the status quo opinions.

[Scootertrash]

I think you have the ultra rare Pirate Edition, otherwise known as a 250 RRRRRRRR. Thar she blows. AGAIN.

Thanks Dog! I need to clean the screen on my tablet anyways. Coffee just wasn't the cleanser I planned to use.........:lol:

[tripledog]

Thanks Dog! I need to clean the screen on my tablet anyways. Coffee just wasn't the cleanser I planned to use.........:lol:

Java; it's not just for drinking anymore!

[atctim]

Logjammin: You might want to do some research on what many here are saying. Here is your clue, now go do some homework:

Two-stroke engines have different exhaust systems, but the basic muffler design is similar. A two-stroke pipe uses its reflective pressure wave to keep the fuel/air mixture inside the combustion chamber. Most of this tuning is done in the pipe itself, but muffler length and diameter play a part. Two-stroke sound waves do not travel as far as four-stroke waves, which is why sound issues quadrupled with the popularity of four-stroke motocross bikes.

[JesseA420]

The purpose of a silencer is just that, SILENCE. That's the purpose of a silencer on a 2 stroke. You know what an FMF shorty looks like? It's barely 6" long. It's only there to silence.

please.

stop spewing such utter trash. this is not the case, and other unknowing people doing their own due diligence searching, trying to learn and understand how a 2 stroke motor works may come upon this and think this to be true.

[loganm]

Go get your money back. Notice there's no chamfers on those ports.....wooops

I'm pretty sure they were chamfered, pictures aren't very good.

[AK47KID]

On your phone or PM?
Via 3WW PM Via Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[yaegerb]

I agree with everything this quote came from, except this quote.
10 years ago he probably would have been booted by the end of the first thread and the members would have said piss off long ago and ignored the resulting extra 20 pages of nonsense.

When you open the main tech forum, and find threads titled "look at this douch" .....that is not a member self moderation thing.



You know my opinions Rob. I know a few members that are ready to step up and take out the trash.

[AK47KID]

You know my opinions Rob. I know a few members that are ready to step up and take out the trash.
Hey, my threads are harmless. If any thing i let people know not to buy from that guy...

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[yaegerb]

Hey, my threads are harmless. If any thing i let people know not to buy from that guy...

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Agreed, and I don't mind a "hey, look at this" post, but when you title it the way you did I feel like I am time warping to banshee HQ. This has and will be a family friendly site. Please refrain from offensive language.

[AK47KID]

Agreed, and I don't mind a "hey, look at this" post, but when you title it the way you did I feel like I am time warping to banshee HQ. This has and will be a family friendly site. Please refrain from offensive language.
I made an account on banshee HQ and asked what could cause no spark on a banshee and got a ton of negative feed back. Anyways ya, i prolly shouldn't have posted that...

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[loganm]

post

You always post the posts that make the most sense. Idk who would create multiple "alter-ego" accounts, that's even below me.

[AK47KID]

Speaking of mods... who is still an active admin/moderator? I know billy is the founder of 3ww

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[Madman Racing]

Piston Seizure, pulled head stud,No leak down test was needed? Something fishy is going on here....hmmmmmm

[AK47KID]

???^^^

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[Scootertrash]

please.

stop spewing such utter trash. this is not the case, and other unknowing people doing their own due diligence searching, trying to learn and understand how a 2 stroke motor works may come upon this and think this to be true.

I was going to post this also.

I'm wondering if this situation is where The Piston Punisher got all of his "expertise". Ignorant, untrue statements by self proclaimed know-it-alls on other forums, and no one corrected the bad info.........Not that OP is interested in learning the correct info obviously.

[AK47KID]

Jogjammin needs to go ask these questions and know it all statements on wwwbansheeHQ.com let's see if he'd survive

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[loganm]

Piston Seizure, pulled head stud,No leak down test was needed? Something fishy is going on here....hmmmmmm

It never actually seized up on me, it just showed signs of it. As for the stud, I don't know, maybe pulling the old ones stressed the threads? I didn't use a torque wrench, but I'm not one of those guys that tightens everything to 200 ft lbs either.

[tripledog]

Piston Seizure, pulled head stud,No leak down test was needed? Something fishy is going on here....hmmmmmm

That is because it is a trolling motor.

[averysdad]

I wasn't going to look at this thread any more but it's like a car wreck I just have to look. If I had an extra silencers I would give it to him. I bet a good stock silencer would put I silence to all this mess. All the jokes are funny.

A top end pirate terrorist Ritalin addict with blisters from punishing so many Pistons. picture that lmao

[tripledog]

I wasn't going to look at this thread any more but it's like a car wreck I just have to look. If I had an extra silencers I would give it to him. I bet a good stock silencer would put I silence to all this mess. All the jokes are funny.

A top end pirate terrorist Ritalin addict with blisters from punishing so many Pistons. picture that lmao

You neglected to mention carpal tunnel of the wrist pin.

[averysdad]

Maybe glamy will write a little song about the top end terrorist pirate lol

[El Camexican]

We can only hope, but I can't wait for Glamy. I promised I’d never post on another Logjam thread, but I can’t help myself. mymint87


To the sound of The Who's Pinball Wizard...

Ever since I was a young boy
I’ve like to turn a wrench
From Aprilia to Yamaha
I must have fixed them all
But there’s nothing like a Honda
It’s more difficult than them all

That big bad Log Jamb
Sure builds a mean time bomb

He stands there like a pylon
Becomes part of his machine
Grinding down the pistons
Always keeps them clean
He fits them with a hammer
And pounds them all to hell

That big bad Log Jamb
Sure builds a mean time bomb

He’s a top end terrorist
There’s got to be a way
To get that boy’s tools and lock them all away

Why do you think he does it?
I don’t know!
What makes him so stubborn?

Ain’t got a clue
Don’t see heat gauge rising
Can’t hear his motor knock
Knows his pistons melted by the smell
Always does his top end
They always seems to fail

That big bad Log Jamb
Sure builds a mean time bomb

I thought I was the Wiseco King
But I’ve handed him my crown

Even on my favorite engine
He can seize the best
The Gods of speed assist him
His muffler does the rest
He’s got lots of crazy ideas
We’ve yet to see them all

That big bad Log Jamb
Sure builds a mean time bomb...

[DohcBikes]

I know billy is the founder of 3ww

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

.....Wrong.

[atcmatt]

I believe it was the late 3wheelio who founded the site.

[Madman Racing]

I find myself coming back as well, just to see what happens next.for one of the most simple engines that Honda ever produced, sure is having one hell of a time with it. I guess in order to be older and wiser, they must be young and stupid, and hopefully learn from their mistakes. Hopefully 3rd times a charm. Oscar Mayer free Honda Shop Manual Download. Use it as your air cooled bible. I still do after 29 years of air cooled R's

[86T3]

Holy crap, I'm crying. Please tell me someone here can play play a guitar and sing that

[El Camexican]

Holy crap, I'm crying. Please tell me someone here can play play a guitar and sing that

Bring your axe to TF and a six pack of Moosehead and not only will I sing it, you will cry... in pain, as I sing like a cat in heat :(

[bkm]

How bout DIO`S rainbow in the dark !.......You`re just piston butcher in the dark ......when it crys out for mercy......you say fack the manuel........you`re the poster child for ritalin.......until your mom gives you meth ....look out!!.....you`ve been left on your own like your the piston butcher in the the dark ! (bitchin arse guitar solo) ......You`re like Marilyn facking Manson ....... in the school yard ........so you come home and torch er your poor `81 R !! There`s no sign of a manuel download ......you`ve been left home with your porn ........Like your dick owes you money ......IN THE DARK ! Now you know what back pressure is ......in the dark ! Ronnie James Dio ...one of the best voices in metal ...ever !......that all i got ...the mike drops !
I second that Ronnie James Dio is probably one of, if not the, best metal voice ever. Heaven and Hell is one of my all time favorites.

[Madman Racing]

He was awesome in Rainbow as well

[fieldy]

Bring your axe to TF and a six pack of Moosehead and not only will I sing it, you will cry... in pain, as I sing like a cat in heat :(

Bring your axe but not your cats! BYABNYC

[loganm]

Holy crap, I'm crying. Please tell me someone here can play play a guitar and sing that

I can. Have not heard that song in a while but I'm confident I could play through the whole thing, full tube amp in all its glory.

Apparently that was just oil I was seeing on the cylinder wall. They checked the clearances and everything was in spec, bore looked "perfect besides some small scratches from debris at startup". I have not been back to pick it up yet.

[loganm]

A few questions. It's "next to impossible" to run this without a silencer and "real air filter". What is a "real" air filter?

Second, runs alright, but doesn't want to rev out. Timing too retarded maybe?

[JesseA420]

timing is not adjustable.

first question makes no sense so............... yes.

[loganm]

I have an adjustable timing plate.

[yaegerb]

Picture of a 1982 adjustable timing plate on your motor please. I have never seen one.

[loganm]

232889
232890
232891
232892

Looks adjustable to me. I didn't even notice the marks before. Actually looks like I'm about +1 advanced on the timing.

[AK47KID]

Thats....a...stator...

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[loganm]

Retarding it a degree did nothing, maybe made it worse. Completely dies if I give it full throttle. Rich, right? Dropping the needle or downing mains has fixed this, but I'm afraid of frying another piston.

[yaegerb]

That's a stock stator plate. There are slots in it because someone got cute and decided they wanted to be able to retard or advance it. What marks are you referring to, I notice no timing marks on the plate. Best you can hope for is put it in the center of the slots and pray it's at zero degrees TDC. Either that or go to eBay and get a stator plate that isn't modified.

[loganm]

Top left bolt. There's a notch there and one on the case. Almost looks factory.

[yaegerb]

Got it, yes that is the factory timing mark. Leave it at zero degrees.

[AK47KID]

It dies when WOT? What oil ratio r u running?

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[tripledog]

Got it, yes that is the factory timing mark. Leave it at zero degrees.

That's what she said.

[atc300r]

The 81-84 250r Oem stator plate is adjustable.I set mine at a degree or 2 advanced.I have advanced it all the way before for drag racing with 110 octane gas klotz oil .

[yaegerb]

The 81-84 250r Oem stator plate is adjustable.I set mine at a degree or 2 advanced.I have advanced it all the way before for drag racing with 110 octane gas klotz oil .

Been a while since I have built an 82, but I don't remember the stator plates being adjustable. I may be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. Regardless, the fact that it is adjustable I wouldn't be messing with it until you get solid numbers in other areas such as compression and squish.

[knappyfeet]

Wake up ! .......maybe you should put on a little make up ! ........why did you burn all those pistons ? ......you wanted to ! .........why does nobody give a sh!t ........you wanted to .......never did a feckin leak down test ........you wanted to ......but i don`t think you trust .......in .......your ...... self righteous suicide .........when air cooled 250r`s deserve to die !

Serj is aging well.

He looks like someone who works at Smart & Final.

[loganm]

Not touching the timing. I don't have much knowledge about how timing affects how an engine runs and how to tune it. I may throw a slightly smaller main in and run a couple of plug chops later.

[onformula1]

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/atc250r_81-84_servicemanual.pdf

[83ATC185]

wake up ! .......maybe you should put on a little make up ! ........why did you burn all those pistons ? ......you wanted to ! .........why does nobody give a sh!t ........you wanted to .......never did a feckin leak down test ........you wanted to ......but i don`t think you trust .......in .......your ...... Self righteous suicide .........when air cooled 250r`s deserve to die !

b.y.o.p.....

[loganm]

Well my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro didn't realize I had the needle up a clip. Was going to try the 145 main but swapped the needle out for the richer one and took it for a spin, after figuring out why it wouldn't idle or barely run (plug was fouled.) Absolute shreddage, with the ITP holeshots it slides like butter too. So much better then the chinese balloons.

Pulled the plug again and it's black, not oily. But with the way it ran I feel like I'm at the edge and probably too lean with my riding style (read: WFO). Either I misplaced my 160 main or the guys at JSR ran off with it, and I know I'm missing a needle too. Not doing any real riding yet. ALSO considering the fact that I ran it for a bit before I blew it up with a 140 main in it, and it was about 50 out to boot. I put the 155 in for now so I can run some tests.

I would like to take this to the lake this weekend. Yaegerbro if your plans involve going there I'll be sure to hit you up. Otherwise, gonna try and do some tuning tonight and hopefully at least run this tank of fuel through it.

Edit: it won't rev out with the 155. Took it for a short (mile ish) ride to my house and it read at 240...? I remember when I really fried it it was reading 300+ going down the road, usually reads cooler when there's air moving over it. The plug looks charcoal all the way down. But I feel like it's still lean, which doesn't make sense since it runs so hot

[82 250r]

Plug chops are more accurate if you run leaded gas. Pump gas will be sooty.
I never had luck jetting the stock carb on an 82...it ALWAYS ran better with the stock jetting even riding at 10,000ft.
Where are you getting the 240 temp? From the jug? exhaust?

BTW, The timing is adjustable on the 82. Be careful.

[loganm]

Usually get it around the head gasket area, where I can aim it right in there between the fins. At this point I may end up just buying a new carb, it's said to run better with a second or third gen carb.

[86T3]

Well my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro didn't realize I had the needle up a clip. Was going to try the 145 main but swapped the needle out for the richer one and took it for a spin, after figuring out why it wouldn't idle or barely run (plug was fouled.) Absolute shreddage, with the ITP holeshots it slides like butter too. So much better then the chinese balloons.

Pulled the plug again and it's black, not oily. But with the way it ran I feel like I'm at the edge and probably too lean with my riding style (read: WFO). Either I misplaced my 160 main or the guys at JSR ran off with it, and I know I'm missing a needle too. Not doing any real riding yet. ALSO considering the fact that I ran it for a bit before I blew it up with a 140 main in it, and it was about 50 out to boot. I put the 155 in for now so I can run some tests.

I would like to take this to the lake this weekend. Yaegerbro if your plans involve going there I'll be sure to hit you up. Otherwise, gonna try and do some tuning tonight and hopefully at least run this tank of fuel through it.

Edit: it won't rev out with the 155. Took it for a short (mile ish) ride to my house and it read at 240...? I remember when I really fried it it was reading 300+ going down the road, usually reads cooler when there's air moving over it. The plug looks charcoal all the way down. But I feel like it's still lean, which doesn't make sense since it runs so hot

I have very limited experience with air cooled motors, but I don't see how 240 is hot. I'm assuming you're using a temp gun on the head? On a liquid cooled bike the temp is read from the liguid, the top of the head will be 30-40 degrees hotter than the liguid reading. And the modern 4 strokes are running 230-240 degrees liquid temp. Can anyone tell us what an air fooler operating temp is? Why do you think it's lean?

[86T3]

http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/31736-head-temps-*aircooled*

Just as I thought. 240 is barely warmed up on that bike.

[loganm]

Well it runs really good, and that time I had something that ran really good it completely DESTROYED the motor when it detonated itself to death. Like there were little blocks of aluminum on the head and piston from the detonation. Complete roach of a KX250 but it pulled the front up in 4th without much effort. Lol.

I don't have anything to base actual temps off. I know it was pretty hot when I fried the last piston. I also know air cooled 4 strokes get hot AF.

[loganm]

I am getting a clanging noise at idle and kind of rattle at speed. Still a fresh top end and they said they checked clearances and they were good. Only mechanical thing I can think of is maybe counterbalancer bearings??? Waiting for this video to upload. How noisy are these engines?

It's boggy today too, but it's ~80F and humid AF, so I'm guessing the humidity is why it's running rich?

[JacobMonster]

I am getting a clanging noise at idle and kind of rattle at speed. Still a fresh top end and they said they checked clearances and they were good. Only mechanical thing I can think of is maybe counterbalancer bearings??? Waiting for this video to upload. How noisy are these engines?

It's boggy today too, but it's ~80F and humid AF, so I'm guessing the humidity is why it's running rich?
When i was at TF, a lot of them had the same rattle-y noise mine did.
one guy said his made the same noise before his main bearings went. I know my kick starter rattles a bit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

[loganm]

Kicker rattles but holding it makes no difference. I know it's gonna make some noise, there's an explosion going on in the cylinder multiple times a second. The clanging doesn't make sense. If it were pinging wouldn't that be more under load? It goes away after idle and turns into a rattly noise. It's still a fresh piston so unless they bored it wrong and lied to me about it I have no idea.

[JacobMonster]

Only thing I can think of is main bearings and a bad crank. When I took apart my first 250R, one bearing was completely out and the other was bad by a small amount. Rod specs I believe are .026 or .028-.032. Mine was at .034. My other 250r has the same noise. The engines are generally loud from what I've been told. I would check rod clearance.

Kicker rattles but holding it makes no difference. I know it's gonna make some noise, there's an explosion going on in the cylinder multiple times a second. The clanging doesn't make sense. If it were pinging wouldn't that be more under load? It goes away after idle and turns into a rattly noise. It's still a fresh piston so unless they bored it wrong and lied to me about it I have no idea.


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[loganm]

Crank and rod bearings are good, spin smooth, no play. Top end looks like pictures previously posted... Wtf!!! Should I call them out on this trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro? Kinda really annoyed rn.

[tommerp]

OK bud.. who's doing your work? Might be time to get a new, quality place for your repairs...

I doubt, if you took it back apart to check out the bearings / etc will they do anything for you now... Maybe they will... IDK.

If it were me, and it was making all the racket you were describing, I would have brought it back to them running and had them listen to it. If they would have told you "it's normal", get it in writing and hold them to it. If they won't stand behind their work, then obviously you need a new place.

[loganm]

Well, I don't have to tell them I've taken it apart... I'm gonna call them tomorrow and not mention that, and I'll see what they say. If it fries another piston I'll send it to someone here or Allen knowles since he did my crank.

[loganm]

Also, it doesn't look like the piston ever came in contact with the bore. It has some light scratches on the intake and exhaust side, the kinda light scratches you get when you run the piston through the bore dry because you're curious what .020" actually looks like in the bore (compared to the old piston).

Only other thing could be my air filter is just a POS. I cleaned and piled it with the k&n stuff, but it came with the bike so idk.

[loganm]

If anyone was wondering I sold it a long time ago. Most likely my issues were related to running a straight air filter with no airbox.

Anyways don’t own a trike anymore, dabbled in drugs, mental illness, and a toxic relationship with someone as insane as me for a while. Now have a 97 kx250 I’m building and a 18 yz 250 that is my main. Trying to go race motocross, I mostly ride at bar2bar. I will probably never log on again feel free to delete this account.