Tri Z clutch Pushrod

[tommerp]

OK guys.... I have some clutch issues on a bike I just got that the clutch was not engaging. I checked the cable and clutch lever, and it seems ok. I've pulled off the basket, plates, and fibers and all seem good. Adjustment screw is in the normal position.

I did find that it was missing the ball on the end of the clutch push rod, ( my ah ha moment thought this was the problem ) but putting that in there is not even allowing the end of the clutch basket to touch the plates. Adjusting the pushrod screw won't get it to a point to pull properly.

I was wondering, what is the best way to get the clutch push rod out to inspect it? I'm at a loss at how to remove it.

Everything else checks out on the whole clutch assembly and I am suspecting someone put the wrong push rod in it OR it's damaged on the end.

Thanks!!

[El Camexican]

Not sure what you mean by adjusting the push rod screw? Where is that? I am unaware of an on adjuster the Tri Z aside from the clutch perch.

Have you got the clutch cover off? I don't have my manual in front of me, but the inner teeth of the pressure plate have to slip over the inner basket. You might be misaligned somehow. If not then perhaps you are missing a plate or two from the clutch pack. Missing the ball won't affect the engagement, it would prevent you from disengaging the clutch.

Pics if you can please.

[christph]

If you are trying to extract the push rod, just get a telescoping magnetic and insert it in the shaft. You can buy them at auto parts stores. Regarding your problem, I've seen the ball bearing flatten out to where it is basically half a sphere. The rod is not usually problem. You might check your push lever; make sure the flat edge that pushes the rod isn't wore. Finally, there is the adjuster on the pressure plate. That is the last thing I adjust after assembling the clutch. Use it to get the clutch play you want. Then you can use the barrel adjuster on the clutch lever to fine tune it, or tighten the cable after it stretches.

[3 Wheel Drive]

It may be the push lever, #27 on the picture:
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/yam/50038896f870021f60a09ba1/clutch

They get worn out on the outside edge quite often.

231718

[El Camexican]

It may be the push lever, #27 on the picture. They get worn out on the outside edge quite often.

Wouldn't that prevent the clutch from disengaging, or does it wear in a way that prevents the springs from returning?

Same with a worn or missing steel ball, I would think that would prevent disengagement, no?

I see the adjuster in the fiche, still don't recall it while working on my clutch though, LOL. I assume it's used to adjust any play between the pushrod/ball and lever #27 when the hand cable is slack.

Now I'm wondering if his lever (part # 27) is pushed down and in the right position to have the pushrod sitting against the flat spot? If the push rod was against the round part of the shaft it would likely hold the clutch pressure plate open.

Tommerp, does your pressure plate move outward when you pull the clutch lever?

[tommerp]

+christph - Yes I'm trying to get the pushrod out... tried a magnet and one of those little spring claw tools... no dice
+3 wheel drive - I'm actually trying to get #22 on your schematic out
+El Camexican - The issue I'm having is the push rod assy ( # 27 ) is not pushing the rod far enough. The push rod assy is in good shape and not worn out. I'm just not getting the push rod to open the clutch enough. If I put the ball bearing back into the assy, I have to spin out the clutch adjustment screw and nut out way too far for the clutch to be in the right spot even... and I still don't get the correct movement when engaging the clutch handle or even manually moving the push rod assy ( where the clutch cable attaches on the engine ) to get it to even work properly.

Any other tricks to get that long push rod out of the engine? I have a suspicion that the wrong one is in there or it's worn out and needs replacement.....

Thanks in advance guys... keep the suggestions coming!.

[El Camexican]

Ok, so the initial issue you had was that you couldn't get the clutch to DISENGAGE and now with the ball in it you can't get the clutch to engage (close), right?

Get the push rod out. I recall mine would just slid out if I tipped the trike to the right, they are not in there tight, but be ready to catch the oil. Providing it isn't aluminum (I cant recall if they are steel or aluminum, I may be confusing it with one of my bikes) the magnet should pull it out if it's steel. If it won't you can try removing the entire clutch assembly to see if it protrudes out of the input shaft enough to grab it. You can also stick a small rod in the hole and work the clutch lever to see if you can feel it moving. If it's doesn't move something is very wrong. If it jammed in there because it's the wrong one or bent you may end up splitting the cases to drive it out. That would suck, but if there was a butcher in the engine it's always better to start from scratch than to keep discovering their screw-ups one at a time.

I recall there are some washers in that clutch basket assembly as well. If they left one out, or added one etc. that would throw everything off. At the very least I would pull the rod, the whole clutch assembly and lever #27 and start putting it back together from scratch.

One other thing! They may have put the "missing" ball in before they put the push rod in when they assemble it, so you might have 2 balls in there now. That would keep the clutch pack disengaged for sure, but it may also have jammed something up at lever #27. I can't be sure though.

I almost always disassemble anything I plan to keep down to the frame and start from scratch to look for things someone else may have screwed up. So far I have yet to regret this practice, seems there's always something that was done wrong, or that's worn out. You may want to invest in a gasket set and do this right if its a keeper.

[tommerp]

Update... and sigh..

Upon closer and further review, it looks like there already is a ball stuck inside there... seems like the prior owner thought putting a second ball bearing in there would help... wrong!..

So now, I'm trying to see the best way to get this jammed in ball bearing out of there..

I've thought about drilling a hole in it and then getting a screw extractor into it to pull it out. It's pretty tough and my drill bit ( less than stellar ) is not even touching it. I might go grab a new one tomorrow and attempt that. I really don't want to split the cases, but it's looking more and more that way.....

GRRRRR!!!

[El Camexican]

I doubt you can drill into the ball bearing. I'd split the case. It's a gasket set and two leisurely evenings in the garage with a great opportunity to check everything and do the rings if needed.

Is it jammed in the shaft, or against the lever? Can you move the lever? If it went in it should come out.

Freakin people and their kids eh? I hate being the second guy into an engine.

[tommerp]

Good point +El Camexican. I heard it run when I got it... sounded strong but a good checkup on all the internals will be good.

I best pick up a case of beer and get the workbench cleaned off.

Thanks for a all the advice.

Updates and pictures on the tear down as it happens.

Cheers!

[El Camexican]

If it ran well and there is no coolant in the transmission oil, you could just pull barrel and the left case side off the crank and you should be able to access the input shaft and drive out the ball without touching the water pump, clutch, shifter, trans, etc. You could leave the head on the cylinder as well if you want. That's the most expensive gasket.

[jonolanracin]

Just pull the clutch arm up off the top of transmission it just pulls out and take you air hose blow down through hole and ball and or rod should come easy and maybe to easy so dont have anything beside it so that when blows out it done hurt anyone or anything

[El Camexican]

Just pull the clutch arm up off the top of transmission it just pulls out and take you air hose blow down through hole and ball and or rod should come easy and maybe to easy so dont have anything beside it so that when blows out it done hurt anyone or anything

Is that area sealed up? if it is that could work. Great idea.

[jonolanracin]

It works for sure i done it a few times with bikes that have sat a long time

[tommerp]

Well.. 150 psi... not coming out. Case is getting split this weekend. We'll see how it comes out then.

Thanks all!

[tommerp]

One more question....

Do I need to remove the stator assembly? The two bolts in there look really stuck / semi rusted. The rotor is already off but if I don't have to take the stator out, I'd rather not risk messing with it...

Thanks again!

[jonolanracin]

No you have to remove flywheel but stator is ok to leave in but in my opinion id always change seals when splitting cases and not sure if you can knock seal in with stator in place

[tommerp]

OK.. nice update here...

Cases - Split. Everything looks really really clean inside. Bearing are nice and free, no slop....

So,,, onto the clutch pushrod...

Lo and behold, I see the reason it would not come out.... the end that engaged the clutch actuator, was actually worn so badly and bent over, it would not pass through the shaft! After a few minutes of grinding down the "burr", it finally ( and easily ) slid out... with a new surprise.... The ball bearing is actually fused to the other end of the clutch rod... I've never seen anything like this before... surreal.

231966231967231968

So, cases are going back together in the morning ( after I pick up some new Yamabond ) and then get the new clutch in it. I noticed the basket has some pretty bad groves in it so I'll be replacing that with a spare I have and see if I can work this one back into shape.

So, I can now say I've split cases for the first time.. Now to get it back together, tightened up, fixed up, and back into the frame!

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions... they all helped!

[El Camexican]

So, I can now say I've split cases for the first time.. Now to get it back together, tightened up, fixed up, and back into the frame!

Make sure the dowel pins are nice and clean (sand with 400 grit if needed) and put a VERY LIGHT coating of anti-seize in both sides of the case holes, just don't get any on the surface that the Yamabond goes on.

Nice and easy on tightening the bolts. Don't force anything and do each a little at a time till they are all snug. Warming the crank bearing a little with a heat gun will help it slip onto the crank a little easier. Wipe a little 2 stroke oil on the seal as well.

[Mosh]

It did that because there was no free play in the clutch actuator. If that lever is constantly loaded, the push rod and ball spin with the pressure plate while it is running until they weld together like that. Make sure there is good free play in the entire clutch system. Or it will happen again.

[El Camexican]

It did that because there was no free play in the clutch actuator. If that lever is constantly loaded, the push rod and ball spin with the pressure plate while it is running until they weld together like that. Make sure there is good free play in the entire clutch system. Or it will happen again.

Couldn't have been doing the plates any favors either.

[christph]

While you have the engine apart you may want to consider doing a few of the mods in the Tri-Z Wrench Report. I added the second boost port which is not hard to do, and it was a big improvement. I didn't rise the exhaust port, as they recommended, but I did find an NOS Bassani exhaust. With a few mods the Z can be made into a real fire breather.

[tommerp]

While you have the engine apart you may want to consider doing a few of the mods in the Tri-Z Wrench Report. I added the second boost port which is not hard to do, and it was a big improvement. I didn't rise the exhaust port, as they recommended, but I did find an NOS Bassani exhaust. With a few mods the Z can be made into a real fire breather.

I already have it all buttoned up and getting it ready to mount back in. I wasn't interested in making this one a fire breather as I just wanted to fix it and then sell it and give someone else the golden opportunity to own a Tri-Z :naughty:


It did that because there was no free play in the clutch actuator. If that lever is constantly loaded, the push rod and ball spin with the pressure plate while it is running until they weld together like that. Make sure there is good free play in the entire clutch system. Or it will happen again.

I've already readjusted everything so that it is nice and set per specs. It seems the guy I got this trike from didn't really know what he was doing.... Everything else looked good except that stupid pushrod and ball.


Couldn't have been doing the plates any favors either.

The entire clutch was replaced with a good set I had. The baskets were pretty grooved... Not sure if I'll try to file them down or toss them. Anyone had good luck re-working these?

[tommerp]

I forgot to add... this trike had the pipe cut and rewelded where it met the (non-Tri-Z or even close ) silencer so that it bent outside the frame right there.... It's a Phase 5 so I think I'll get someone to cut it and get it back into shape...

The rear plastic was melted there due to the pipe being in the position it was... I don't know how he didn't burn his leg with it the way it was... lol

[El Camexican]

The baskets were pretty grooved... Not sure if I'll try to file them down or toss them. Anyone had good luck re-working these?

You can file the grooves out of any clutch basket. The problem is that they come back faster that they would on a new basket. The reason being that it is essentially impossible to remove exactly the same amount of material from each finger of the basket, so the reworked clutch has to support more force on one edge than the next. The key is to file each one as close to the same as possible using the current indentations as a depth guide.

Use an aluminum wax, or at least some oil on your file to keep it from gumming up with aluminum.

[tommerp]

You can file the grooves out of any clutch basket. The problem is that they come back faster that they would on a new basket. The reason being that it is essentially impossible to remove exactly the same amount of material from each finger of the basket, so the reworked clutch has to support more force on one edge than the next. The key is to file each one as close to the same as possible using the current indentations as a depth guide.

Use an aluminum wax, or at least some oil on your file to keep it from gumming up with aluminum.

Maybe I'll save it for a "winter time" project. :)

Thanks Bud!