honda 250 big red clutch

[dustrunner]

Got the 85 running and took for a spin. It runs well and has good power and will pull a wheelie without difficulty but If I try to stop the clutch wont disengauge = then it stalls..... per the manual I loosened the lock nut and turned the screwdriver slot to the left till I felt resistance . manual says then go 1/4 turn more = well I couldn't turn it at all ...anyway I took it for a spin and same thing = clutch wont disengauge and while braking to stop it stalls unless I hold the shifter down...then its fine ... seems like if the clutch was shot it would slip ? so I tried turning the screwdriver slot and it wont turn either direction without a lot of force ?:wondering

[AK47KID]

Did you change oil?

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[tripledog]

Something on your ES isn't happy. Maybe a stretched clutch cable?

[dustrunner]

Yes I change oil and filter whenever I get a new toy . Just seems like something is stuck in the clutch mechanism ? im not sure how long its been since it was last ran.

[Dirtcrasher]

Got the 85 running and took for a spin. It runs well and has good power and will pull a wheelie without difficulty but If I try to stop the clutch wont disengauge = then it stalls..... per the manual I loosened the lock nut and turned the screwdriver slot to the left till I felt resistance . manual says then go 1/4 turn more = well I couldn't turn it at all ...anyway I took it for a spin and same thing = clutch wont disengauge and while braking to stop it stalls unless I hold the shifter down...then its fine ... seems like if the clutch was shot it would slip ? so I tried turning the screwdriver slot and it wont turn either direction without a lot of force ?:wondering

You set the main clutch. Instead of a lever, raising the pedal up or down is linked internally to the main clutch.

You RPM centrifugal clutch is whats locked in your motor, or the one bearing is stuck seized etc.

[tripledog]

Lurking and learning here. Carry on.

[wonderboy]

What is the history of this machine? Did you recently do work on the clutch?

I'm with DC: there are two clutch devices under the cover. One disengages based on movement of the foot shifter and is the one that is adjusted by the screw adjuster you are trying to move. The other clutch is a centrifugal clutch and it is the one that disengages at low engine RPM when you come to a stop.

The centrifgual clutch includes a one way bearing. As DC said, the one-way could be locked up or if the clutch has been worked on, it could have been installed backwards. Your engine stalling when you come to a stop is due to something in the centrifugal clutch. It could also be the centrifugal clutch shoes dragging on the clutch bell which could be causes by the springs being broken or not connected, or it could be worn out pivot points on the clutch shoes allowing them to contact the clutch bell (I had this issue on my 84 Big Red).

The fact that you can't adjust the slotted screw also indicates that there is something not right there too. With the locknut loose, you should be able to turn the slotted screw in (clockwise) with very little resistance. When adjusting (as you pointed out) you need to turn the screw out (counter-clockwise) until you feel resistance then back off.

[dustrunner]

I bought it out of a field. It wouldn't kick over so I pulled the starter and found the starter gear in pieces , Then pulled the 250sx stator cover of and found more broken gears. = now it kicked over so I put my es cover on it with a fresh oil job and got it running . Like Paul Harvey would say " and now you know the rest of the story "

[ps2fixer]

Well that was unexpected.

Photos are always interesting if you have the gear parts yet =).

[AK47KID]

Is it possible to take the clutch out? There could be metal shavings in it or a gear tooth stuck you missed? Not an expert, just suggesting solutions lol

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[AK47KID]

I got a line on 3 big reds that this family friend is going to give me. He's going through a divorce and may or may not get them but if he does and he gives them to me let me know what you need and I might be able to sell it to you

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[dustrunner]

[QUOTE=ps2fixer;1406558]Well that was unexpect

My paw taught me too always expect the unexpected .

[dustrunner]

229484 must have really ground on it .

[dustrunner]

229485 gotta find where I put the starter .

[Dirtcrasher]

Do I see RTV form a gasket?? Get a gasket!!, with grease on your fingers rub it into the gasket, and on each dowel pin and cover bolts.

Make sure there are no gouges on the mating surfaces. Just a light filing on a high spot or you will need just a dab of sealer in a bad area. If I do that, it comes apart so easy that the next time I can reuse the gasket. Just not on a head gasket or a liquid cooled head gasket or base gasket...

[dustrunner]

That is the tear down piece, not the rebuild part I plan on using. no rtv for me ...lol

[dustrunner]

WELP , fast forward to today.... took the adjuster all apart and everything looks good...now to take the cent. clutch apart....is that 1 way bearing the same one that screws up the kicker operation from catching ?

[ps2fixer]

Right side 1 way bearing is for kick starter and engine brake. Most common sign of it being bad is when you turn off the machine it whirls after it dies.

Left side 1 way bearing is for the electric start, only thing I know to test it is if the electric start works or not to turn the engine over.

Does your machine still die while in gear and stopped? I thought the starter gears is what you diaged as the cause?

[dustrunner]

YES , Still dies when triing to stop or shifting into first at idle... wait till you all see what I found on the clutch side....un-believable !

[dustrunner]

238029 took side cover of and found this....

[ps2fixer]

Been a while since I've worked on a big red, but is the primary gear welded to the crank? If so that sucks that someone was so stupid to think that would even work correctly :-/.

That's the area I was expecting to see an issue with the main clutch, not it missing lol.

Sounds like you'll need a crank, primary drive gear, the compete primary clutch, and if you didn't replace them yet, all the starter gears. The one way bearing generally comes with the clutch, but if it doesn't you'll need that too.

Hate to say it, but cost wise if you have room, you'd be better off buying a parts machine and diag the engine on it and seeing which one is easier to fix assuming you'd have the parts to fix atleast one of the two.

Not super big on tearing down an engine right now, but I do have a complete 250es engine sitting around I could part out. It's a smoker but runs, so I'd think the clutch, gears, etc should be fine. It developed a shifting problem that I suspect is a bent shift fork. The last owner was pretty hard on it, so I wouldn't be surprised. In fact... I need to grab the shifter shaft out of it for my daily rider some time.

You're a fair distance away, but if for some reason you're heading to michigan, I have a complete great running 86 250es engine I've been saving to the side for a while that I wouldn't mind selling.

[dustrunner]

Somehow I was skidding timber with it a few days ago... WOW.... What would be the reason the crank would break off ? And how does this machine still move ?

[ps2fixer]

Based on what i can see in the photo, I'm pretty sure it is the primary drive gear welded to the crank, not from the crank breaking off. It probably had the kick starter problem, or a major problem with the primary clutch and someone removed it and just welded the gear to lock it to the crank.

Your machine should look more like this.... (note: this isn't a 250es engine but has the same basic design)

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/01ssreda4/4%20Wheelers/IMG_20140110_152006_561_zps3ddefd79.jpg~original
http://s275.photobucket.com/user/01ssreda4/media/4%20Wheelers/IMG_20140110_152006_561_zps3ddefd79.jpg.html