450 Trike Opinions

[matty]

For those of you who have a 450 trike I'm wondering what you think of it and if they are worth the money. I've been debating building or buying one.
I already have a 250r, 350x and I'm currently rebuilding a Tri-z but would love something different that no one else around has. I mostly trail ride and switch between my 250r and my raptor. Basically, are the 450s decent trail riding machines or should I spend my money else where?

[86T3]

Are they worth the money? That all depends on what you pay for one. I love mine, there isn't anything comparable to one. Mine trail rides great. I went for a 40 mile ride a couple weeks back with my buddy who was on an 86 250r. We switched up for a bit the R did everything mine did and it was fun getting back on a 2 stroke, but I'd take my 450 10 times out of 10. The suspension is great and the power is incredible, you're never in the wrong gear. The best part is that I can get every part right at the dealer, no searching ebay or craigslist for discontinued parts. I tried uploading a couple pictures but my phone isn't working correctly tonight, look through my started posts to find the thread on my Kawasaki if you're interested in seeing it

[loganm]

Don't build one if its gonna be a hack job. There is a prime example of what not to do on here. At the expense of their feelings I won't post a link, but it looks like a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro hackjob, it's bad.

[Louis Mielke]

My 250r has been on the shelf in the garage ever since i built a 450. Won't be going back for a daily rider thats for sure.

[atctim]

A 450 conversion is a different animal than any Stock Honda trike. I like them and think there is nothing better for racing and trail riding. I now have 2 of them. One for flat track and ice racing and one for MX and trail riding. They are fantastic. I love all 3 wheelers and have many vintage ones - but when it comes to riding / racing - I spend most of my time on the 450 conversions.

[keister]

Personally, I don't love the 450R as a trail rider.
For me they are too rev happy and require a lot of clutch work.
I prefer the chug-a-lug tractor power of a 350X or Big Red.
Other people (the 2 posters above, for example) love them on the trails.
It all depends on your riding style.

The two best things about them are:
They rev out about as fast as you can shift so they are a blast to ride fast - a 450R puts a smile on your face quickly.
If you break or wear out a part you can buy a brand new OEM replacement (kwad or dirt bike part) instead of a crappy used eBay part.

[matty]

Thanks guys this is exactly the type of info I was looking for. I think the 450 is exactly what I'm looking for and will suit my riding style. I almost always take the 250r over the 350x but after a long ride the vibrations do get annoying.
I do want to take my time and do research so I don't end up with a hack job. I'm thinking of spending around 10k and want to end up with something very nice.

[86T3]

10k is a hefty budget, you should have something very nice for that much. I have a lot less than that in mine and am very happy with it. There are lots of people who will help you with your build here or on the modern trike hybrid page on facebook. Good luck, keep us updated.
229213

[big specht]

What year/brand 450 should people stay away from?

[atctim]

You could always look for a used TPC - they do come up from time to time. They are about 1/2 of your budget used.

[BOB MARLIN]

I'll let you know how much I like the 450, after I get mine done.

[atc007]

I think TPC sells the do it yourself conversion kit for around $2500. I don't know what he charges for the conversion if you send him your trx 450 frame and he installs the kit.

Beadle , 86T3 and others here would know first hand what he charges.

[oldskool83]

I think if you just pick up a clean 450F dirtbike and then pick up some atv parts and swap and mod things its not hard. You can save money and just use OEM stuff like a 250R front end at 1st. You do not need inverted forks if your gonna be bashing trees in the woods at 15mph.

todays atv rear fenders and seats are so slim you can adapt so easy with a few welded on tabs. Really the biggest thing is a swingarm...you can have a custom one made to line up or just use something off an alike atv and machine to fit. Nothing is hard if you take your time and tackle 1 thing at a time.

Honestly its harder to redo a vintage bike with new parts and make it still look vintage.

The kawaka alum frame 450 is honestly prob the coolest mode darn 3 wheeler I have seen. It makes TPC's look 10 years older...plus if you have ever road an aluminum framed machine you wont go back to steal unless you get a free blown up bike.

Also most 10 year old 450 dirtbike you can get normally clean with a rebuilt motor for $2,000 maybe $2,500 max. There is honestly no way you can go over $4000 if you with nice clean used parts, take your time and pick up parts over time.

I bought a YZ426F with a title for $1000 last fall to get me thru the rest of the season...it had 3wheeler potential all over it but it was a heavy pig compared to an aluminum framed bike. So yeah you can build anything nice if you take your time. Hell I got parts from every Japanese maker in my kx100 200x build and that was way harder then basically figuring out a seat rear fenders and a rear end on a 450F or 250F for the matter.

Good luck in what you decide. Like anything people who want instant gratification can buy a TPC...people who want it done their way can build their own.

[loganm]

You're wasting your time if you're going to a 450 and keeping conventional forks. A 450s performance potential is far beyond the limits of a conventional fork. Why anyone would go to the trouble of building a trike with a modern engine only to use completely outdated suspension technology is beyond me.

If you think a 450 is bad for trail riding maybe try a heavier flywheel and crf450x cam, if they are different.

[atctim]

My first 450 had traditional 250R forks on the front - I didn't mind. Let me tell you two advantages of conventional forks on a 450. #1 You can lower the front end a ton without shortening the forks. #2 they are way lighter!

[DohcBikes]

You're wasting your time if you're going to a 450 and keeping conventional forks. A 450s performance potential is far beyond the limits of a conventional fork. Why anyone would go to the trouble of building a trike with a modern engine only to use completely outdated suspension technology is beyond me.

If you think a 450 is bad for trail riding maybe try a heavier flywheel and crf450x cam, if they are different.Oh yeah? so you have a 450? Or you just ride one a lot?


There are lots of really really good conventional forks. Some of them are very lightweight.

[barnett468]

I think the 450 is exactly what I'm looking for and will suit my riding style. I almost always take the 250r over the 350x but after a long ride the vibrations do get annoying.

Your ATC250R vibrates too much for you so you want a bike with a bigger engine? :wondering

[loganm]

There are lots of really really good conventional forks. Some of them are very lightweight.

I'm not arguing with you there. But the extra weight and rotating mass of a 450 plus the extra weight and rotating mass of the rear end on a trike and really there's no excuse not to go all the way with inverted forks and what not IMO.

If someone were to make say, an ATC400ex with conventional forks I think that would be fitting, although I'm not sure that engine is very light. It has a lot of power potential though.

[bkm]

I'm not arguing with you there. But the extra weight and rotating mass of a 450 plus the extra weight and rotating mass of the rear end on a trike and really there's no excuse not to go all the way with inverted forks and what not IMO.

If someone were to make say, an ATC400ex with conventional forks I think that would be fitting, although I'm not sure that engine is very light. It has a lot of power potential though.
Just curious as to what rotating mass has to do with the use of Conventional vs. Inverted Forks?

[loganm]

More technical words to make my point sound more intelligent, duh.

[Dirtcrasher]

I have inverts on my 350RX. I have 3000$ in suspension work alone.

The rear shock has the soft ride system for small bumps and both Hi and Low speed compression damping and rebound damping.

I would not hit some of the jumps I hit without this setup.

So if I had a 450, I would certainly run inverts but that's just for me, not EVERYONE else. I don't want all that power without the confidence in pulling it off.

Just watching youtube yesterday, everyone that had crashed had terrible rebound damping. They'd land and then BOING!! the got out of control and crashe3d but that is more of a setup issue or a shock in need of a rebuild most likely.

These days more guys using the OEM forks but they have been changed. Whether it's a Gold Valve, another valve, shims or other tricks, they seem to work damn good!!

Edit - I just got another set of inverts in today. Not sure if I'll build a 450 or put these on my other 350X....

[bkm]

More technical words to make my point sound more intelligent, duh.

You said it, not me.

[barnett468]

But the extra weight and rotating mass of a 450 plus the extra weight and rotating mass of the rear end on a trike and really there's no excuse not to go all the way with inverted forks and what not IMO.

More technical words to make my point sound more intelligent, duh.

Please explain what is intelligent about saying that the additional rotating mass of a 450r engine will have sufficient affect on the suspension to necessitate the use of super stiff forks, especially on a bike that will mainly be used for trail riding.

I can also think of at least one very simply reason not to use them and that is the cost




I haven't ridden a 3 wheeler since my dad sold our atc 90 we had as a kid,

Since as of less than 9 months ago, the biggest baddest 3 wheeler you have ever ridden was a fire breathing, tire roasting atc90, please explain how you acquired the experience to form the opinion that the additional rotating mass of a 450r engine will have sufficient affect on the suspension to necessitate super stiff forks, especially on a bike that will mainly be used for trail riding.



...so I cannot wait to get this thing running and die on it.

We hope your desire is soon fulfilled.
.

[loganm]

Cost? You're spending $3000+ on a quad to hack it up, don't be a cheapass and do it right.

Do you have anything productive to say barnett or are you going to continue to pick out specific parts of my posts some of which are said tongue in cheek so you can show everyone why you are so much better than them? I'm not trying to blow up a potentially useful thread with a bs dick measuring contest.

Conventional forks have their place, just not in front of high performance 4 stroke mills.

[86T3]

That looks factory built. Jason did a great job on it. Are you going to race it.


The kawaka alum frame 450 is honestly prob the coolest mode darn 3 wheeler I have seen. It makes TPC's look 10 years older...plus if you have ever road an aluminum framed machine you wont go back to steal unless you get a free blown up bike.

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.


I am going to beat the ever living crap out of this fine machine every chance I can.

[barnett468]

.

Cost? You're spending $3000+ on a quad to hack it up, don't be a cheapass and do it right.


Y'all are insane. It's a 3 wheeler, not the MF fountain of youth.

These two statements seem to contradict themselves, plus you obviously assume that everyone whom spends $3,000.00 on a quad to "hack it up" has the financial resources to buy upside down forks and tripple trees etc which has not been my experience.



...or are you going to continue to pick out specific parts of my posts some of which are said tongue in cheek

Nothing in you post suggested it was "tongue in cheek", however I did find some of your comments hilarious.



I'm not trying to blow up a potentially useful thread with a bs dick measuring contest.

The fact that are continuing to post comments here that are rude and unrelated to the ops topic prove otherwise, and if I recall correctly, there is a word in the Dictionary that would best explain the difference between some of your comments and your actions.



Conventional forks have their place, just not in front of high performance 4 stroke mills.

I haven't ridden a 3 wheeler since my dad sold our atc 90 we had as a kid,
Thank you for posting your credentials that qualify you to make that statement as well.
.

[loganm]

Hahahahaha are you serious? -_- You have no credentials. Your made up pro racing career and r&d work for a tax write off company aren't real.

Please continue to look through every single post I make for stuff to use against me, really, it's helping you. If you have a problem you're welcome to PM me barnett, don't expect a filter though.

[DohcBikes]

I'm not arguing with you there. But the extra weight and rotating mass of a 450 plus the extra weight and rotating mass of the rear end on a trike and really there's no excuse not to go all the way with inverted forks and what not IMO.

If someone were to make say, an ATC400ex with conventional forks I think that would be fitting, although I'm not sure that engine is very light. It has a lot of power potential though.you wouldnt have a clue because you dont have a 450 trike. you are digging another hole

[oldskool83]

400ex's are now what a 300ex was...slow, now power and pointless to hop up unless you get one for maybe $400 blown up. If this thread made its 4 pages I call the owner of the thread will never build a 450 trike. I see threads like this all the time on bansheeHQ...but they get 40 pages long and 2 years old.

Buy a 450R bike, and do what I said a few posts up...if not do let the idea alone.

[Mosh]

They ONLY reason anyone would run conventional forks on a 450 converison was cost.

And when they came out 2 people knew how to make tripple clamps and make the inverts work. Eventually rumor has at that tripple clamps were copied...So now the stuff is out there.

I actually have road them all..I am here to tell you, that modified 3rd gen trike forks from 1985 are barely adequate for the vintage bike. Anyone who argues that with me has never taken them to the limit. You can make them work, but you have to ride around them. Couple that with a heavy 450 engine and beefier frame with more traction from the 4 stroke torque and it pushes the stock 250R front end around. The is more than just the forks...There is rake angles and front axle placement that work into the debate.

Running stock vintage trike forks on a 450 conversion is like running drum brakes and 14 inch hyundai tires on a 2016 corvette..

[big specht]

You are trashing this thread with all this chest pounding BS

[matty]

Your ATC250R vibrates too much for you so you want a bike with a bigger engine? :wondering

Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.

[barnett468]

Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.

matty, that is a question, not a comment . Yes I know that big engines can have very low vibration and I know what factors contribute to it . We actually had a fairly bad vibration in the bars and foot pegs on a KLT engine at Kawi and that engine has a balancer, so we reduced it significantly by installing steel inserts into the end of the bars and using a different design for the footpeg . One way vibration is reduced is by installing rubber isolators in the engine where the mounting bolts go thru and/or rubber mounting the handlebars, and this was done from the factory on many older bikes and some of the Harleys even had foot platform isolators . There are actually some companies to sell anti vibration products for the bars these days . Below are just some of them, and one might consider trying this if their bars vibrate more than they like which is often the case when bigger engines or stroker kits or big bore kits etc are installed . Another simple vibration reducer is to put a cork or rubber plug into one end of the bars then fill them with lead shot then plug the other end . BB's will not work as well because they are harder and therefore won't dampen/absorb the vibration as well.

http://www.vibranator.com/

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/search?term=vibration%20reducing%20handlebar%20cla mps


As far as the vibration of the atc250r goes, this is the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it which makes me think that his may have had a problem . Many Honda guys on this site complain about the vibration on a TECATE as if it is so bad that it will literally cause ones arms to fall off and they rave about how smooth the atc250r is, and not all of these people have even ridden both bikes . I have ridden them both, and from what I can remember, my experience is that the atc250r has less vibration than most, if not all of the off road bikes I have ridden that were 250 cc's or larger, so I find it hard to believe that someone would think the vibration of an atc250r is so bad that they would want a bike that has even less, therefore I was curious about his comment which made think that maybe the one he had, vibrated more than most for some reason . In my experience, if an engine vibrated much less than the atc250r, it would hardly vibrate at all and I might then fall asleep while riding it, but then I was so used to the TECATE and my 450 Maico that I suppose any bike would have felt buttery smooth to me by comparison.

[barnett468]

POST CORRECTION

"...which makes me think that his may have had a problem."

should read:

"...which makes me think that yours may have had a problem."


"...I was curious about his comment..."

should read

"...I was curious about your comment..."

[Red Rider]

Your ATC250R vibrates too much for you so you want a bike with a bigger engine? :wondering


Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.


matty, that is a question, not a comment . Yes I know that big engines can have very low vibration and I know what factors contribute to it .By including the question mark at the end of the sentence, Barnett did indeed ask a question. But, by including the statement, "so you want a bike with a bigger engine" does imply that Barnett believes a bigger engine will vibrate more than the current 250R engine. If that is not Barnett's belief, as he has stated in his reply, then perhaps an alternate wording in his initial response could have avoided the confusion felt by all. Perhaps this would have conveyed what he was trying to say, "Your ATC250R vibrates too much?"

:p ;) :D

[barnett468]

.
Yes, thanks Red Rider, that actually, was my main question, and the way you posed it would have been simpler and less confusing, but hey, that post was only one sentence so I think I should still get some sort of prize or something, and I didn't even say, The TECA.... :lol:

Also, if it were me, I too would go with the killer forks if the finances allowed, however, if they didn't, but I had the funds to build it with conventional forks and it was just for recreational trail riding as matty stated it would be, I wouldn't let the fork issue prevent me from building one because it's certainly not like a set of big tube conventional forks are going to simply bend like a wet noodle, plus many conventional forks can be upgraded with a Gold valve from Race Tech which can provide a better overall ride.

http://www.racetech.com/


Also, there are some reasonably stout conventional forks like the ones on the 86 TECATE and those have 9.8" of travel . It's all good and well to have 32" of fork travel if you are going in a straight line, however, the taller the bike, the more tippy it will be if all else remains the same.

Below are just a few fork tube diameters to offer some perspective.

86 ATC350X ................. 35 mm
70's XR750 .................. 38 mm
86 ATC250R ................. 39 mm
86 KXT250 ................... 41 mm
90 GPZ900R ................. 41 mm


The GPZ weighed 500 lbs, had 4 cylinders, 113 bhp and a top speed of 150 mph which was the fastest in its class . Yes it had less travel than the TECATE which would have made the forks a bit less "flexy" if all else remained the same as the TECATE which it didn't since it weighed around 220 lbs more, had way more hp and torque and went more than twice as fast.

Evil Knievel jumped 14 Greyhound buses with a 300 lb Harley with the Cerriani forks, and the same model won the Grand National Championship several times with the same forks.
.

[Mosh]

They will bend like a wet noodle....Evil plainly stated in his latest interviews and I quote...
" If I had the suspension these kids have today, I would have jumped over the moon"

Point being, stock forks have too much flex with a modern 4 stroke conversion. It is a fact. Just knowing the the center mass of weight on an invert fork being placed up top releases lower mass in the fork tube at the axle joint which inherently basically off physics of leverage make the USD forks far superior over any conventional fork with its mass located low to creat extra pressure on the thin tubes.

Yes you can run conventionals. But if you have ever seen somebody slam a small block chevy in a 3rd gen v6 based monte carlo without updating the v6 springs it simply is not done right. Period. Which is directly related here.

[DohcBikes]

Nobody said we had to choose from atc forks. There are a LOT of good conventional forks out there.

[loganm]

He's not responding to my PM but, it's not a leaf spring barnett. The fork should flex as little as possible and the load and shock absorption should come from the springs, shock, and tire, not the fork tubes themselves flexing. USD forks are far superior based solely on the fact the the outer tube can be as large and strong/stiff as possible and the inner tube, which is limited on thickness by having the fork springs and damping assy. inside, is located farther toward the end of the suspension assy., with less leverage acting on it.

Your cost argument is irrelevant. $1500 for a USD conversion, $3000 on a quad to hack up. That's $4500. RZRs are everywhere and those go for $20k+ new. Get off your ass and work some overtime if you need to, do it right.

@DOHCbikes: if you're going to the trouble to make triple clamps and axle, brakes, hub work with other forks just go all the way and go USD.

[barnett468]

.

matty, fortunately, I don't know anyone that would waste a perfectly good V8 Chevy engine by installing it into a late model 6 cylinder vehicle that a car jacker wouldn't take even if it was left in an empty parking lot with the door open and the engine running in downtown Los Angeles, besides, I thought the discussion was about fork tube rigidity, not springs . If the only concern is that the springs might be too soft, you can buy springs for many types of conventional fork tubes . Below is just one source for them.

http://www.racetech.com/

As I stated, big tube conventional forks will NOT bend like a wet noodle on a 450R conversion, especially on a TRAIL BIKE, period, so perhaps the person that stated they would was referring to the forks on an ATC250R and has no experience with the massive 41 mm tubes on The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe.

If someone thinks a 450R produces even close to the amount of tq and hp an XR750R or GPZ900R does, they have either never ridden those two bikes or they simply have a VERY good running 450R.

I also see nothing in the quote from Evel where he says his 38 mm forks bent like a wet noodle on his 300 lb bike after jumping to a World Record [but perhaps I simply missed it], nor have I ever seen his forks bend upon landing after one of his jumps unless he crashed and wadded it up . In fact, below is a video of him jumping 14 Greyhound buses and you can see what appears to me to be his his forks compressing then rebounding at the bottom of the ramp which doesn't suggest to me that they bent like a wet noodle, but perhaps I need glasses and/or a bigger computer screen.

PS - I have also never seen the term "off physics of leverage" in any engineering or physics books but perhaps mine are outdated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t44XC8UiQS8


Here's the same model with the same forks doing 130 mph down the straight before they pitch it sideways for the turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmYdE_4CRDk
.

[loganm]

Why are you even comparing street bikes to off road bikes? That's not anywhere close to the same thing. 41mm tubes are not massive by any stretch of the imagination.

It is basic physics. You want the strongest part of the fork at the point where it will have the most leverage acting on it, and the weakest part at the outer end, with the least amount of leverage (at the axle). Stop trying to defend your outdated tech, it's a losing battle. There's a reason why every modern motocross bike that is competitive has USD forks, they're better.

[Mosh]

Barnett... Have you rode a modern day 450 trike conversion with or without conventional forks?

Do you have close relationships with the builders of these modern day comversions and had extensive tech conversations with the design process of them?

Have you been at a three wheeler race and raced against them raced them or seen them in action?

Or do you still know everything?

[barnett468]

.
matty, it appears there are also others here that don't share the same OPINIONS that are shared by some and don't have the same propensity to "Rush to judgement." or select just one person out of several others whom share the same general opinion in a feeble attempt to discredit them.

With all their bloviating and pontificating, they are making claims without ever having ridden a 450 conversion with a decent set of conventional forks like the 41 mm ones the 1986 TECATE has.

Also, they seem to be selectively ignoring at least some of the comments below, and all of the ones made about forks were made by knowledgeable and reputable members.


I mostly trail ride and switch between my 250r and my raptor. Basically, are the 450s decent trail riding machines or should I spend my money else where?

You can save money and just use OEM stuff like a 250R front end at 1st. You do not need inverted forks if your gonna be bashing trees in the woods at 15mph.

My first 450 had traditional 250R forks on the front - I didn't mind. Let me tell you two advantages of conventional forks on a 450. #1 You can lower the front end a ton without shortening the forks. #2 they are way lighter!

There are lots of really really good conventional forks. Some of them are very lightweight.


So if I had a 450, I would certainly run inverts but that's just for me, not EVERYONE else.

Nobody said we had to choose from atc forks. There are a LOT of good conventional forks out there.


It seems to me that the 2 conventional fork detractors kinda missed or ignored this also....oops.


.
Also, if it were me, I too would go with the killer forks if the finances allowed,


Here's the qualifications for one of them which I guess is better than not having ever ridden a 3 wheeler at all....maybe.


I haven't ridden a 3 wheeler since my dad sold our atc 90 we had as a kid,


.................................................. ............ THE GREAT FORK DEBATE

.................................................. ..http://i.imgur.com/IwK5sDa.gif

[loganm]

One less than ideal landing and I would crumple your 30 year old tax write off tecate forks /thread

[KASEY]

I built my 450 and several others for the FUN OF IT,,,, I am old and fat ,,,and ride like an old lady now so the 450 lets me be lazy and still have FUN ,,,,, the longer travel soak up the bumps so I can ride for a little while now without getting all beat up,,, I left my forks full length and stretched it out for a better fit in the dunes where I live,,,

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n592/KASEYII/5984eab2-3a43-4205-9859-cc1b1e6f367d.jpg

[KASEY]

if you do not have an action shot of YOURSELF on a 450 conversion your opinion in this thread if NULL& VOID TO ME,,,,, THE SAME THING I WENT THROUGH 13 YEARS AGO WHEN I BUILT MY 500R,,,, so put them up or GTFO!!!!

[Mosh]

Well Barnett likes to know it all, but now has been asked 2 times in this thread alone, to prove his experience in the matter, and once again he skips the request.

So here is my proof both for Barnett and Kasey's request..As I said I have been on them both ways and you can feel the weaker forks flex. But don't take my word for it..Also added a pic of my modded 250R doing a flat landing out of 6 feet in the air WITH Stock forks, Progressives and 10 Weight fork oil and re valved rear shock..As I said before..30 Year old modified stuff is barely adequate. A well done 450 Conversion with the inverts will not look like my 250R sacking out.
If the stock 30 year old stuff was "adequate" everyone would still be using it on the conversions plain and simple.

So I guess the only argument Mr wizard can make now, is "honda 250R's are inferior" to his beloved Tecates that he claims to have designed..Stay in mommy's basement there barnett, and beat away with whatever you want.
Done with this topic. Go ahead and feed people info that you have no experience with and hope you dont make somebody believe that doing a half ass job is acceptable that may ultimately lead to someone being injured.

And that is me..Same pants, same riding jersey, 2 different trikes...Not some dusty pic from 1983 from 100 yards out claiming to be MR professional atc racer..Wait..TPC paid my entry fees that day..Guess I am a pro ATC racer..Wait again..I also Helped TPC do a motor swap at midnight for Jackie Meadows at a AMA race..TPC asked me for my feedback on the 450R..Guess I am a pro research and design guy too..

[ironchop]

Its hard to believed that 450 4 stroke trikes STILL end up in an online melee every time this subject comes up on 3WW....what has it been now? 14 years running?

And which two factions are always involved?

Actual Experience VS Assumption.....every goddam time.

In short, my opinion on 450 trikes: needlessly divisive. Would love to own one.

Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk

[loganm]

Its hard to believed that 450 4 stroke trikes STILL end up in an online melee every time this subject comes up on 3WW....what has it been now? 14 years running?

And which two factions are always involved?

Actual Experience VS Assumption.....every goddam time.

In short, my opinion on 450 trikes: needlessly divisive. Would love to own one.

Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk

It is weird. You go on pirate and ask how to build a rock crawler, everyone already knows the strongest stuff to use and what won't held up, yet here people are still peddling weak outdated tech.

[Mr. Clean]

What is the best kind of oil to run in a 450 conversion?

[KASEY]

I RUN THE KIND THAT COMES FROM THE SPOUT IN THE SHOP,,,, comes in a 500 gallon tank,,,

[barnett468]

matty, this is another unfortunate example of some people making a mountain out of a mole hill to the detriment of a thread, and I find it very odd that a couple of these people are ranting and raving in their complaining about forks they have never even tried, and are attempting to attack me even though I made the comment below, so in that regard, I agree with them, yet they are still trying to prove some point to me that I don't disagree with. :rolleyes:


Also, if it were me, I too would go with the killer forks if the finances allowed,


They are also continuing to avoid the comments from 3 other knowledgeable and credible people on here in oldskool, atctim, and DohcBikes.

No one said or even implied that mosh never rode a 450r conversion and I never doubted him, because unlike him and some others, I stupidly take peoples word for what they say unless they prove to make false claims, yet he is making a grandiose attempt to prove something to people that never doubted him which seems quite odd to me.

It is also a fact that neither I nor anyone else ever stated or even implied that a conventional fork would not flex at all or was as strong as an upside down fork, yet they continue go to extreme measures to make it appear that somebody did.

The fork situation is really far simpler than some people make it out to be . I have posted FACTS in specs and videos that will prove my point and the point of several others beyond a reasonable doubt, to any rational, logical thinking, unbiased, open minded person.

For the third time, a decent set of conventional forks like the ones that are on the 86 TECATE, will not bend like a wet noodle . This is obviously an entirely different statement then saying that they will be as stiff as upside down forks, and the fact is that they will not, but the point again, is that they, or something similar are in fact more than strong enough for YOUR PARTICULAR TRAIL RIDING APPLICATION.


IF YOU AIN'T GOT A PHOTO IT NEVER HAPPENED

Well, I don't have any photos of me takin a dump so I guess I never do, which might explain why I have bad cramps.

As far as posting photos as proof that someone did something, since both people that posted photos alledging that they were the rider, posted ones of people that had a helmet on and no visible name on their clothing, there is no proof of anything in those photos other than the proof that both riders are chubby and one is either good at photo shop or was somehow miraculously capable of getting a bike a whopping 4 feet off the ground.

atctim, unfortunately, since you have not posted a photo of yourself or even anyone riding a 450r that you could claim was you, you have never owned or ridden one, therefore, your comments are fabricated and therefore invalid.


My first 450 had traditional 250R forks on the front - I didn't mind. Let me tell you two advantages of conventional forks on a 450. #1 You can lower the front end a ton without shortening the forks. #2 they are way lighter!


IF YOU USE CONVENTIONAL FORKS ON A 450R CONVERSION THEY WILL BREAK AND YOU WILL DIE

To imply that one could get possibly get injured trail riding a 450r conversion if they use conventional forks is unnecessary scare mongering tactics because it is simply wrong, that is unless you use forks from a Honda Z50 or something incredibly unintelligent like that, in which case, it is my opinion that the process of natural selection should quickly take its course.

olskool suggested the atc250r forks not me, yet for some unknown reason, they have decided to attempt to attack and discredit me when the forks I mentioned were the ones on the 86' TECATE which never tried.

The photo below seems to further prove their claims are inaccurate since the suspension appears to be fully bottomed out and the rider is a bit overweight which adds to the stress on the forks which are the ones the purported rider claimed to be flexy and which look like the wimpy forks used on the atc250r, which again proves my point, which is, their comments, if accurate, can only be applied to those particular forks . Had they used stronger conventional forks like the large 41 mm ones on the TECATE or something similar, they would have flexed much less . A professional tester would not make a blanket statement condemning all conventional forks after they have only tested one type, and for someone to do so is grossly inaccurate, illogical, and unreasonable.

Also, to imply that the person whom designed the TPC trikes is some type of genius if he happened to be the one whom put the wimpy atc250r forks on a 450r conversion, seems odd to me because that is something I, nor any engineer I know would have ever done, but what do I know, I only raced in the PRO class for many years and built all my own bikes and did all the development work on the ATV's and some dirt bikes at Kawi.


All I see here is a bike with a chubby rider and compressed suspension with the forks still attached.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=229337&d=1458477427

[matty]

Thanks for those of you who replied with actual experience. I did get the info I was looking for. If I'm going to take the time and money to build a 450 and I would spend the money to put modern forks that wasn't even a question. If I go over budget oh well, I guess I'll have take more time with the build or put off buying another toy.


To the OP on this thread .....i`m sorry if all you got is trail riding (i`d sell my sh!t) to do 20mph between the trees get a 110 and put your 10K to better use ! My Banshee has less vibration then my 250r ! But oh i like getting butt raped at the dealer for new parts for my 450 .......buy a Chevy spark instead !

Well I'm sorry that I don't live anywhere close to a track that allows quads, never mind trikes, to ride on. I wish all the time that I lived closer to the dunes, St Anthony is over 10 hour away. So when the trails are only 40 min from my house that is where I ride. If you ever want to come up to Canada I can take you on some extremely technical mountain trails and hill climbs that you will never want to try again. I'm not the one who said that bigger engines have more vibration and I didn't complain about paying for parts from a dealer.

[Mosh]

Matty, I am as friggin hardcore vintage trike rider as one may find. I would even go so far as to say, that the conversions initially I disliked because they have such and advantage over vintage stuff. However, If I ever get the notion to do another build in what is left of my time on this mudball, I would do a modern 450. Besides, apparently they are the only trike that will support my 185 lb fat ass.

[Dirtcrasher]

Wow, all this over forks?? :lol: Run whatever you want based on funds and desire. It's not like they're gonna snap off and kill people.....

It can all be changed later on if you wish.

[onformula1]

Nobody said we had to choose from atc forks. There are a LOT of good conventional forks out there.

This is absolutely true.

[jays375]

What is a budget?

[oldskool83]

too much B hole in this thread........nothing but blue skies outside.

[83ATC185]

I'll never get why people can't just appreciate the wealth of knowledge and creativity on this site instead of burying it under mounds and mounds of useless opinions and arguments.

The highest performance trike I've ever ridden, is a 200x. I bought it 2 years ago. I trailride, jump terraces, and ride dirtroads on occasion. It is absolutely fine for me. It does what i want it to do. The youngest thing I've ever had was a 1995 XR80R.. So i don't know a damn thing about performance potential or modern suspension, nor do i care. I ride within the limits of my machine and my ability and i have fun doing it. So I don't see why, around here, that someone doing as they wish in a trike build has to turn into an argument. It only serves to stifle creativity and create a hostile environment.
I came here originally to learn about what i just paid 175 bucks for, and what a help this site has been over the years. It just sucks as of late to see someone ask for an opinion or advice with something, or maybe even just showing off their work, only to have it bashed and covered with personal opinions on what would've been better for them.

You can spend as much money as you want on the biggest and the best but if its way outside the limits of what you need, then there's not much point is there? For some a bone stock 200x is the most fun they could have with clothes on, for others skills and purposes, they may really need all that suspension and motor.

Live and let live...

[DohcBikes]

I figured since the guy put the word 'opinions' in the title, that he wanted some opinions. Conflict is a normal part of life.

One does not necessarily have to have ridden a 450cc 4 stroke three wheeler to know what good forks are, or what some good options might be.

I think most of the opposition to conventional forks here stems from a general lack of suspension and suspension tuning knowledge.

[big specht]

Well what I was wanting to hear was a Honda is the easiest to convert "cause "or the Kawasaki is "cause "of the Yamaha is "cause "that's all I was really asking. I completely under stand the suspension debate. But at this time I really don't care about that.

[Dirtcrasher]

I'd rather do a Yamaha anyway. They were the pioneers with Doug Henrys 4 stroke SX bike.

And the 250 Honda is a ticking time bomb, but the Yamaha seems more reliable.

The other 450's all seem very reliable if you adjust the valves and take of it.......

[ATC-Eric]

CRAZY amount of dick swinging in this thread. Owner of a 450 conversion checking in. Love these machines. They do EVERYTHING you tell them to, and more. 229399

[AK47KID]

So, I've seen the common trx 450r conversion but why don't they make a banshee conversion? 🤔

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[yaegerb]

So, I've seen the common trx 450r conversion but why don't they make a banshee conversion? ��

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Its been done...meet Trish
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/145528-Tri-Shee-Build-Thread-A-K-A-Trish?highlight=trish

[AK47KID]

Its been done...meet Trish
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/145528-Tri-Shee-Build-Thread-A-K-A-Trish?highlight=trish
After I posted the previous post I was too curious to wait so I logged on TPC and all I found was honda crap. (Imagine that!) Like most companies that are mechanic shops they update their products once every year so I was looking at old data. I got the idea of emailing them and long story short TPC makes the conversion. Think I'll buy a stock banshee and to the conversion

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[AK47KID]

Its been done...meet Trish
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/145528-Tri-Shee-Build-Thread-A-K-A-Trish?highlight=trish
BTW Trish looks awesome. Me want

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[86T3]

After I posted the previous post I was too curious to wait so I logged on TPC and all I found was honda crap. (Imagine that!) Like most companies that are mechanic shops they update their products once every year so I was looking at old data. I got the idea of emailing them and long story short TPC makes the conversion. Think I'll buy a stock banshee and to the conversion

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I wouldn't hold your breath waiting on that.

[AK47KID]

I don't hold my breath for anyone or anything

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[RamsesRibb]

All this crap about inverts vs conventional seems to be wrong. From what I remember is that oems switched to inverts because the conventional forks were causing too much flex. They switched to aluminum frames slowly while they where trying to figure out the perfect situation with the new inverts. Oh well what do I know. That was just a brief recollection from the 90's.

Carry on.