Aftermarket shock for Tecate?

[vroomy]

Does anyone know there is an aftermarket rear shock available for the 87 Tecate? Something like PEP, Axis etc?

[christph]

Works Performance makes shocks for the Tecate. ATV Galaxy sells them on ebay for around $750. I think I read on here somewhere that Axis did a one-off for a guy with a Tecate.

[El Camexican]

Try contacting onformula1 on here. He may be able to build something custom made for you.

[tecaterob]

Axis will make it for you. You need to send them yours for measurements. I had onformula do mine. He knows his stuff. I highly recommend him. Here's a pic. My bike is green and black so wanted as black as I can. I might order a Works shock on my next build but will send it to onformula for modify.

225682

[DohcBikes]

Since a Works shock is custom built however you like, I can't see why you would send it to anyone after you buy it. I'm sure the guy knows how to build a shock since it is really simple and all but I'm also sure that Works Performance Suspension has a pretty good idea as well.

Also, being in Australia is going to change the game a little. Sending a shock back and forth 3 times is going to get REALLY expensive.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Works-QuadStar-SRS-Rear-Shock-Remote-Reservoir-Kawasaki-Tecate-3-250-86-87-/140630593311?hash=item20be3c8f1f:m:mP0jB7zxRtlG08f X10sm8yQ&vxp=mtr

[El Camexican]

Also, being in Australia is going to change the game a little. Sending a shock back and forth 3 times is going to get REALLY expensive.

Great point! Best send it directly from wherever you buy it to onformula1 before shipping it home.

[DohcBikes]

It makes absolutely no sense for anyone to rebuild a brand new custom built $750 shock that came from one of the leading suspension specialists in the entire united states.

I'm all for supporting a member I really am but only when it makes at least a tiny bit of sense.

[cochran]

Send onformula your stock shock or buy one off of eBay and have it sent to him. He can rebuild the shock and respring it to your weight/riding style using all current suspension components. This can be done for as little as half of a Works shock. I did send him a used Works T3 shock that I had and he did a total rebuild for me. I couldnt be happier. Now I am buying a stock 2nd gen shock from him for one of my first gens. He is shortening it and it is being set up for flat track.

[86T3]

I almost bought a works shock before trikefest this year but after talking with them, i found out the $800 shock didn't have dampening or rebound adjustment. To get those, it was another $400. I stuck with my rebuilt stock one and got a heavier spring for my longer swingarm and my weight, it worked great for me all summer. I may try to upgrade in the future, but my opinion is unless you really put a lot of seat time on it the stock shock works fine

[tecaterob]

Work shocks are not very good at all. I've had Works, Axis, PEPS, Elka, and OEm. By far Works was the worst. Don't see any signs of them being leading company. onfumula doesn't just rebuild them, he modifys them to new model specs.

[barnett468]

Exactly what don't you like about yours?

In new condition, that shock works very well and is difficult to bottom out on a bike with a stock swing arm and around a 185 lb rider.

Also, unless Race Tech Suspension or someone else currently has a "new" style piston for the 86 and 87 model, I would be curious to know exactly what this upgrade to "new model specs" that was mentioned consists of . . I for one certainly wouldn't pay anyone to do an "upgrade" to my suspension if I didn't know exactly what they were doing, therefore, I suggest you find out exactly what mods a rebuilder will do to it before you decide to do anything with it.

If you decide you need stiffer springs, one very good place to get them from is Race Tech Suspension . . They can calculate the best spring based on your setup, riding type and skill level and are one of the biggest motorcycle suspension rebuilders there is in the US and have sponsored many top level Pros and their prices are very competitive.

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/3/Kawasaki/Tecate%20250/1984


As DOHC mentioned, it can get quite costly shipping back and forth considering your location, and there are a few places on OZ that can rebuild and even modify yours if you choose that route, however, if the inside of the body is excessively worn, there won't be much point in putting a lot of money into it . . Below are a few Aussie shock rebuilders that may be able to suggest where your particular type can be redone.

http://atvracetechnology.com.au/products/suspension-rebuilds.php

http://www.bbimporters.com.au/search/index.php?step=5&make=KAWASAKI&model=All&year=All&category=All&supplier=Pro-X+67

https://www.cyclinic.com.au/fox-racing-shox/


I was sponsored by Works Performance and won many AHRMA Pro Motocross races with their shocks and was quite happy with them, and as far as I know, they were the first aftermarket mfg to use the check ball type piston in their shocks, so at least in this regard, they certainly were a leader in the industry, plus their quality was high, and at the time, they would also revalve a shock at least once for free if it was not exactly what you needed, however, you would need to ask them if they still provide this service.

Just because a shock is custom made, it does not mean that it will be perfect as delivered, and there are cases where it may still need some slight changes, however, if a shock has separate rebound and compression adjustments, the valving is often close enough that it can be tuned by simply adjusting the setting with the knobs.

[oscarmayer]

Milner (Onformula1) has already built several custom Tecate shocks with major improvement results. Why not send it to him? After all he used to build them back in the day as well.

[DohcBikes]

Some of the reviews here are for shocks that have never even seen action which makes the review irrelevant.

TecateRob did you tell Works their shock sucked? If you had they would have done something about it. Sounds like a little bit of puffery for the sake of argument to me.

[El Camexican]

Unfortunately your thread has stirred up the uglier side of 3WW vroomy. You may have noticed that there are individuals posting who wish to discredit, or minimize the knowledge, skills and services of some of our members without actually offering anything more than a link you’ve likely found on Google yourself at some point.

I would suggest you leave this drama pit and contact onformula1 via PM for some advice, or as a wise man once said “so you can separate the fly sh*t from the pepper”. He may offer to provide a service for you, or he may just give you some recommendations on what work to have performed at a shop closer to you. Either way it will likely be of benefit to you and your trike.
:beer

[vroomy]

Yeah I didn't mean to cause an argument. Just wondered what options are out there. I love the plushness of the stock shock but I landed quite a large jump and although the landing was smooth and didn't buck me off I did case the bike out and I'm only 70kgs

[barnett468]

Yeah I didn't mean to cause an argument. Just wondered what options are out there. I love the plushness of the stock shock but I landed quite a large jump and although the landing was smooth and didn't buck me off I did case the bike out and I'm only 70kgs

No worries mate, it is never an op's fault if members "argue", and in fact, if you have a good sense of humor, you might find it quite entertaining when it happens . . It seems that many people forget that bikes are supposed to be FUN, and that just because someones opinion or experience might be different than another's, it doesn't necessarily mean anyone is wrong.

I for one didn't see anyone trying to discredit anyone, but perhaps I missed that so I'll read the posts again . . All I basically saw was several people recommend that you send your existing shock to one particular member here to get it set up to the "latest" specs, or to buy a brand new shock that the mfg custom built to your specific specs to the same person so you could spend more money on it to make it "better" than the mfg did.

In my opinion, if a custom made $700.00 shock is so incredibly crappy that you need to send it to an independent shock rebuilder to have it changed so it works "better", one should simply try one from another mfg and hope it works or just get yours redone for a much lower cost, however, I've been known to not do what others do on many occasions.

As I mentioned in my previous post, in new condition, that shock will NOT bottom out under the conditions I mentioned . . The reason I know this is because I am the person that did ALL of the testing on ALL the Tecate prototype and pre-production models and I also did some of the engineering on the suspension, and part of the testing I did was to basically jump straight down off of maybe a 10 foot high ledge dozens of times in a row while trying different settings to prevent it from bottoming harshly . . This was done with the shock cold and hot . . Another bottoming test consisted of flying off of around an 8 foot high jump at around 55 mph dozens of times in a row.

I was also a Pro level 3 and 4 wheel rider at the time so I beat the livin bejesus out of all of these models on rough tracks on many occasions, plus a the end of prototype testing we would do at least a 100 hour endurance test on the pre-production models to insure the specs were the same and to determine if there were any failures or excessive wear n any parts during that time so the problem could be corrected because no company wants t have parts break unreasonably soon on a new bike and then have to give new parts away for free to replace them as well as pay the dealer to install them because it can not only give a company a bad name, it is also simply not financially sound business practice.

We also used a portable telemetry pack for some suspension testing which was basically a back pack filled with fancy equipment that weighed around 50 lbs that a rider would have to wear while riding . . We could then print out the info and combine it with the riders feedback and determine what we wanted to try next on the shock . . After this, we would run the shock on our MTS machine to get its actual telemetry specs at varying temperatures and speeds before and after the changes, so I have at least a little experience with shocks including this exact one.

Anyway, if you are reasonably happy with the performance and simply want to prevent it from bottoming, a simple rebuild and possibly a slight increase in the damping and maybe a slight increase in preload might be enough . . It's really a bit of a guess since wear is a little hard to determine, but you can have the inside of the shock measured also to see if it is still within reason or beyond hope.


How much does it sag when you sit on it?

Do you have the compression damping turned all the way up?

[bkm]

Unfortunately your thread has stirred up the uglier side of 3WW vroomy. You may have noticed that there are individuals posting who wish to discredit, or minimize the knowledge, skills and services of some of our members without actually offering anything more than a link you’ve likely found on Google yourself at some point.

I would suggest you leave this drama pit and contact onformula1 via PM for some advice, or as a wise man once said “so you can separate the fly sh*t from the pepper”. He may offer to provide a service for you, or he may just give you some recommendations on what work to have performed at a shop closer to you. Either way it will likely be of benefit to you and your trike.
:beer
This pretty much sums up the climate around here lately. But when the inmates are allowed to run the asylum, it's to be expected.

[tecaterob]

Some of the reviews here are for shocks that have never even seen action which makes the review irrelevant.

TecateRob did you tell Works their shock sucked? If you had they would have done something about it. Sounds like a little bit of puffery for the sake of argument to me.


I don't talk out of my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. I had them on my Tecate 4 and like I said before they SUCKED!! I switched them to Axis on this bike.

225780

That being said I don't know why you would say I talking crap about a company. I have no vested interest in any company. I only voice my experience and not others. So take you smart little comments somewhere else.

[El Camexican]

No worries mate, it is never an op's fault if members "argue", and in fact, if you have a good sense of humor, you might find it quite entertaining when it happens . . It seems that many people forget that bikes are supposed to be FUN, and that just because someones opinion or experience might be different than another's, it doesn't necessarily mean anyone is wrong.

I for one didn't see anyone trying to discredit anyone, but perhaps I missed that so I'll read the posts again . . All I basically saw was several people recommend that you send your existing shock to one particular member here to get it set up to the "latest" specs, or to buy a brand new shock that the mfg custom built to your specific specs to the same person so you could spend more money on it to make it "better" than the mfg did.

In my opinion, if a custom made $700.00 shock is so incredibly crappy that you need to send it to an independent shock rebuilder to have it changed so it works "better", one should simply try one from another mfg and hope it works or just get yours redone for a much lower cost, however, I've been known to not do what others do on many occasions.

As I mentioned in my previous post, in new condition, that shock will NOT bottom out under the conditions I mentioned . . The reason I know this is because I am the person that did ALL of the testing on ALL the Tecate prototype and pre-production models and I also did some of the engineering on the suspension, and part of the testing I did was to basically jump straight down off of maybe a 10 foot high ledge dozens of times in a row while trying different settings to prevent it from bottoming harshly . . This was done with the shock cold and hot . . Another bottoming test consisted of flying off of around an 8 foot high jump at around 55 mph dozens of times in a row.

I was also a Pro level 3 and 4 wheel rider at the time so I beat the livin bejesus out of all of these models on rough tracks on many occasions, plus a the end of prototype testing we would do at least a 100 hour endurance test on the pre-production models to insure the specs were the same and to determine if there were any failures or excessive wear n any parts during that time so the problem could be corrected because no company wants t have parts break unreasonably soon on a new bike and then have to give new parts away for free to replace them as well as pay the dealer to install them because it can not only give a company a bad name, it is also simply not financially sound business practice.

We also used a portable telemetry pack for some suspension testing which was basically a back pack filled with fancy equipment that weighed around 50 lbs that a rider would have to wear while riding . . We could then print out the info and combine it with the riders feedback and determine what we wanted to try next on the shock . . After this, we would run the shock on our MTS machine to get its actual telemetry specs at varying temperatures and speeds before and after the changes, so I have at least a little experience with shocks including this exact one.

Anyway, if you are reasonably happy with the performance and simply want to prevent it from bottoming, a simple rebuild and possibly a slight increase in the damping and maybe a slight increase in preload might be enough . . It's really a bit of a guess since wear is a little hard to determine, but you can have the inside of the shock measured also to see if it is still within reason or beyond hope.


How much does it sag when you sit on it?

Do you have the compression damping turned all the way up?

Are you the one that did the R&D on the 85 & 86 Tecate as well? or just the 87? Seems like the earlier Tecate's had some shock issues, but then again they may not have been using Pro level riders for the tests.

“The Tecate has an excellent set of forks mated to a shock that bottoms out too easily. It needs some work here.”
http://dirtwheelsmag.com/home-page/way-back-wednesday-1985-250-shootout

"Many of the testers noticed the light feel of the Tecate in the air and considered it a good flier. Several riders mentioned that they were able to bottom the suspension, though."http://www.quadpit.com/mags/1986/stories/250shootout01.html

50# portable telemetry pack sounds like a fancy way of saying; "We told the boss we were going to test shocks and just took a backpack full of beer & ice to the dunes and called it a day."

[DohcBikes]

I don't talk out of my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. I had them on my Tecate 4 and like I said before they SUCKED!! I switched them to Axis on this bike.

225780

That being said I don't know why you would say I talking crap about a company. I have no vested interest in any company. I only voice my experience and not others. So take you smart little comments somewhere else.
I was not referring to any reviews for works shocks. There are people here reviewing onformulas work that have never actually ridden a machine with his shocks. I don't think that is right to do so I'm going to say so.

I do however know that he has done some good work for people because I've seen reviews from people I trust as well.

I'm not recommending against anything. Just giving my opinion, god forbid it differs from the good ol boy club's.

It'll be a long time before people that haven't jumped a trike a lot with his product are going to convince me he's a better shock builder than Works Performance.

You still haven't answered my question on whether or not you called works performance about any concerns you had with your four wheeler shock. And if so how did they deal with it?

Just trying to learn.

[vroomy]

Thanks for the info Barnett. I did have the shock rebuilt 2 weeks ago. The static seems a little too much though but I'm guessing putting a bit of pre load on the spring will fix that?

[barnett468]

Thanks for the info Barnett. I did have the shock rebuilt 2 weeks ago. The static seems a little too much though but I'm guessing putting a bit of pre load on the spring will fix that?

No prob, you're very welcome.

What do you mean by static? . . Are you referring to the amount of sag?

If so, one place to start is by fully extending the suspension and measure the distance from a felt pen mark on the top of the axle to a point directly above it and from the top of the front tire to the bottom side of the front fender.

Then sit on the bike in your cruising type riding position and have someone push down on the rear of the bike and let it rise back up by itself and measure the height, then go to the front and do the same thing . . Do this three times on each end before moving to the other end then average out the numbers.

Then simply subtract the small number from the big one and that will be how much sag you have. We set up most of the ATC's and Production and Works MX bikes this way although it probably doesn't seem very "scientific", lol.

Als, you didn't sau what your damping settings were on . . If the compression is not on high, try it on high along with the proper amount of initial/static sag.

[barnett468]

.
Does the person that "rebuilt" it know how to revalve it?

What exactly did he do to it?

If he put 5 wt in and you have the compression damping on high and it bottomed out and he doesn't know how to revalve it, you can have him put 7 wt in it and try that . . This is not officially the best way to do it but it does work in a pinch, besides, people often use different fork oil weights than the one the factory recommends, and changing the shock oil weight has the same basic affect.

[barnett468]

.
Does the person that "rebuilt" it know how to revalve it?

What exactly did he do to it?

If he put 5 wt in and you have the compression damping on high and it bottomed out and he doesn't know how to revalve it, you can have him put 7 wt in it and try that . . This is not officially the best way to do it but it does work in a pinch, besides, people often use different fork oil weights than the one the factory recommends, and changing the shock oil weight has the same basic affect.

[barnett468]

.

Are you the one that did the R&D on the 85 & 86 Tecate as well? or just the 87?

Thanks for the questions as I am happy to share my experiences and some of the behind the scenes things that took place at KAWASAKI, makers of The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif

To begin with, I had hoped that my use of the word "ALL" in my previous post would have been understood by everyone to mean that I tested the 84 and 85 models also, and since it hasn't ,I offer my apologies.

As far as ALL the testing of every year of Tecate goes, I was involved in every phase . . There was one other main test rider on the 84 and 85 model . . His name was Lee Rodgers and he was an ex Pro motocross rider and had been riding three wheelers on a regular basis since he started at Kawi and was quite skilled at it . . He had even raced a two stroke 250 3wjeeler that he had built even before Kawi had decided to build one.

Three other members of R and D also tested the 84 model a couple times since it was a new model for all of us . One of them was Jim Cook whom was an ex AMA Pro Motocross racer, and one was Mike Preston whom was around 10th in the AMA Pro Motocross standings in the 125 cc class at the time, and another was Danny Betley whom was a very good novice level rider . . Danny eventually left Kawi to be a race team mechanic for Honda.




Seems like the earlier Tecate's had some shock issues, but then again they may not have been using Pro level riders for the tests.

Yes they did which I have actually mentioned many times on the site and I have read all the magazine articles about it so the quotes you kindlt posted are not surprise to me.

The first model TECATE was designed by an engineer that Japan had sent to us, and he had never designed anything for a three wheeler before so we weren't expecting anything great . . It was also designed by hand on paper because we did not have a cad program at the time . . The bike was also built in a bit of a rush and production schedules had been made and some final molds had already been made PRIOR to the very first test., so some of the things on it were not possible to change, and one of these was the rear shock rocker, therefore we had to live with what we had and work around that particular item.

We tried several different spring rates and different valving . . At that time we were only 10 minutes from KYB so I would take the shocks over to a very knowledgeable and helpful person named Ross Maeda whom worked there and he would revalve them based upon what we wanted . . We also had him do the shocks on the Works MX bikes for us . . After a short while, we started doing them ourselves when we had the time because Ross couldn't always do them as quickly as we needed . . After we moved to Irvine, we installed a brand new MTS machine that we got from the Snowmobile department when they closed and did all the shocks ourselves thereafter.

Anyway, the primary problem with the rear suspension of the 84 Tecate is NOT the shock or the spring, but is the rocker arm ratio and our best over fix t reduce the hard bottoming and still retain an acceptable level of performance was to simply make the bottoming cushion on the shock rod twice as long.

In 85, the rear suspension was one of the primary focuses, and there was limited time to do it, and I don't know why they kept putting unrealistic time limits on some problems . . I did all the "Extreme" type testing for that, and after we went thru every test part we had, it STILL bottomed out harder than I liked, so we had a meeting and in that meeting, I and two of the Japanese suspension engineers that Kawi had sent over solely for this test, took our best guess at what needed to be done to the rear rocker and calculated the rocker ratio and curve during that meeting that ended up on the 85 model because we only had one shot at it . . Around a week later, I got a brand rocker in the mail and immediately went out and tested it and had to finalize the settings with what spare parts I had.

The 85 suspension was substantially harder to bottom than the 84 model.




50# portable telemetry pack sounds like a fancy way of saying; "We told the boss we were going to test shocks and just took a backpack full of beer & ice to the dunes and called it a day."

Believe me, I wish that was the case sometimes, however, there were many opportunities to indulge after hours although I did indulge one time after I ran a TECATE head on into a massive tractor tire on the Baja Course at Saddleback during testing one day which broke my Veicular bone, so me and my friend [yes that is not grammatically correct], whom was testing with me said fk it and stopped at a Mexican restaurant on the way back to the shop and got hammared on Margaritas at the companies expense...but I had to use my left hand to drink them.

As far as stock 84 and 85 Tecate suspension goes, I used stock suspension AND a stock swingarm in every single one of my races, including at Corona that had a big double jump, and Saddleback where I beat around 40 riders including all the top factory riders that were there which included Jimmy White, Donnie Luce and Marty Hart etc and the track at Carslbad which had a big jump on the straight which i hit nearly maxed out of 5th gear . . I even won the Holeshot contest/award for that race and still have the cool T shirt they gave me for it which says "Holeshot King" on it.

Anyway, I hope this a least partially explains why some things may not work as well on it as everyone would have liked them to, and since Jimmy White did win several Championships on the 84/85 models, it shows that even though he did modify his rear suspension, the bike overall was certainly very good despite some of its shortcomings. especially if one takes into consideration that it was a first year model.

:beer

[barnett468]

.
oops...I forgot to mention, we tried to set the sag so it was 1/3rd of the total travel front and rear.

[vroomy]

I'll check out settings and get back to you. One thing I don't get about the 86/87 Tecate is why the Honda was more popular? I've had many 86 Hondas and loved them but I've recently restored this 87 (my first Kawasaki) and can't believe how much better these ride! To me they feel more nimble and heaps more power.

[barnett468]

.
Since you are relying on magazine quotes for a reference, I will be happy to address these and add a couple others for comparison.



“The Tecate has an excellent set of forks mated to a shock that bottoms out too easily. It needs some work here.”
http://dirtwheelsmag.com/home-page/way-back-wednesday-1985-250-shootout

This is highly unlikely unless they used a 250 lb rider and/or simply didn't turn the compression knob to up to match the rider weight and skill level and type of terrain they were testing on and since they made no mention of turning the knob, this comment has little relevance. Had they stated that they turned the compression up to the maximum and set the preload to the proper height and it still bottomed like a pig then it would have more relevance . . A professional tester would have known this information is important and would have included it in their report, or in this case, their article . . This is one difference between some magazine testers and professional testers.




"Many of the testers noticed the light feel of the Tecate in the air and considered it a good flier. Several riders mentioned that they were able to bottom the suspension, though."http://www.quadpit.com/mags/1986/stories/250shootout01.html

Again inconclusive due to lack of specific details, including the fact that they did not say if the bottoming was tolerable or excessively harsh etc.


From Dirt Wheels Magazine October 1983 edition.

"In a nutshell we're very impressed.

The suspension is DIALED. Just like it's supposed to be, both ends proved to be supple over the little stuff and soaked up the heavy hits admirably. We could bottom it out when landing from good-sized jumps and drops, but it did so with no violence or surprises whatsoever.

Rider comfort is outstanding."

This information is far more accurate and useful to potential buyers, although it would have been eve n more helpful if they tried a stiffer compression setting also.

There is a reason that shocks have adjustable damping settings, which is simply because "One size does not fit everyone.", and to try and claim that the suspension on ANY bike sucks without taking the little bit of effort it takes to turn a tiny knob is doing a great disservice the the mfg and the readers.


From Cycle Guide May 1984 . . 1984 TECATE vs 1984 atc250r.

"The KAWASAKI, however, is the more specialized of the two. And its specialty is Winning!"

This one is the most useful of all of them and succinctly sums up the TECATE in only 14 words.

[christph]

Barnett 468, I have two questions. One, where did Kawasaki get the idea to use the name "Tecate?" Is it because they tested in Tecate Mexico? Two, what is the exact difference between the 84 and 85 suspension? Can the linkage from the 84 be replaced with the 85 to fix the harsh bottoming problem? Thanks.

[DohcBikes]

Great information once again barnett468, thank you for your continued contribution to the sport.

[Red Rider]

Since you are relying on magazine quotes for a reference, I will be happy to address these and add a couple others for comparison.Barnett, it seems the majority of what you type is magazine quotes. It's funny how you love the quotes, where the magazines rave about the Tecate, but discount the quotes where they bad-mouth it. Why is that barnett? Is barnett, dare I say, biased?


...since they made no mention of turning the knob, this comment has little relevance.

Again inconclusive due to lack of specific details,...You're joking right? Any rider, that has been around motocross bikes, or sport trikes, would have cranked up the compression damping as soon as they bottomed it out the first time.

[barnett468]

.

Barnett, it seems the majority of what you type is magazine quotes.

Really? . . If that is the case, please post the quotes from the Magazines that you are referring to.

The info on the TECATE had to come from me first since I was the one whom did the R and D on them, therefore, imo, any intelligent person would easily be able to understand that anything a Magazine wrote would be something I was already aware of and may sound similar to something I have posted.

If you run a 2 stroke without oil with the gas and it seizes up, I don't think it should be any surprise to anyone if they read an article in a Magazine that says, "If you run a 2 stroke without oil in the gas, it will seize up.", so why does it seem odd to you when I say the 84 TECATE bottomed out more than I liked etc and a Magazine says something very similar.




It's funny how you love the quotes, where the magazines rave about the Tecate...

Yup, I most certainly do, and you are correct, most of them do rave about it's power and wicked cornering/sliding abilities.




...but discount the quotes where they bad-mouth it. Why is that barnett?

Unfortunately, you obviously fail to understand my posts, therefore, I suggest you read them again in hopes that they will make more sense the second time around, and if you search enough of my posts, you will in FACT see me mention on a few occasions that the 84 TECATE bottomed out a little too easily, therefore, at least in this case, I agree with the Magazines.

If you read my posts on this thread, you will see that I actually agreed with the last Magazine quote El Camexican posted, which oddly enough was from the same Magazine company as one quote I posted from an earlier edition containing a review of the 84 TECATE, so perhaps you can tell us all why the exact same Magazine made two fairly different comments regarding the rear suspension. especially since the rear suspension on the 85 was STIFFER when near bottomed than the 84.

From Dirt Wheels Magazine June 1985 edition.


“The Tecate has an excellent set of forks mated to a shock that bottoms out too easily. It needs some work here.”
http://dirtwheelsmag.com/home-page/way-back-wednesday-1985-250-shootout


From Dirt Wheels Magazine October 1983 edition.




"In a nutshell we're very impressed.

The suspension is DIALED. Just like it's supposed to be, both ends proved to be supple over the little stuff and soaked up the heavy hits admirably. We could bottom it out when landing from good-sized jumps and drops, but it did so with no violence or surprises whatsoever.

Rider comfort is outstanding."


I also agree with Magazines that state the riders foot can hit the fender when they kick it over . . So what, big deal, who really cares about that in the big picture when they are looking for a high performance bike . . If the TECATE was a lower performance bike, then people could have more choices like an ATC250R or a Yammie, but since it was rated the most race ready bike by virtually every single Magazine in virtually every single test they did, it seems that there were few other choices for people looking for this type of performance in a bike.

Another FACT that you appear to continually omit is that I raced the Pro class with box stock suspension and a stock swingarm and won several races and placed well in many others, therefore, if the suspension was as crappy as some imply, I must have almost been a GOD or Super human to do that, which I for one don't think is the case, but thanks for thinking I was if you do.




Is barnett, dare I say, biased?

Probably not in the regard that you are thinking . . One of the most important criteria for what I did is to be UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE . . Anyone that worked in R and D whom was not objective would not have had a job for very long . . One can also not be in denial which is a trait I have never seen in an engineer because an engineers job is to seek truth and knowledge as corny as some might think that sounds . . If something an engineer designs fails, they don't cry if someone figures out why and points it out to them, to the contrary, they are grateful from having learned something new . . As odd as it may sound, some aspects of engineering are "experimental" or "best guesses" to some degree, and even if the calculations all look good, they don't always work in the real world which is one of the reasons companies like KAWASAKI and Honda and Ford etc, ALL have an R and D departments.

Also, I was seriously considering going to work for Honda at one point only because I could make way more money there but decided against it because it was a 2 hour drive away in traffic so I and eventually went into business for myself, buying, repairing, restoring and selling 60's and 70's Muscle cars, which I had been doing in my spare time since I was around 17 . . Coincidentally enough, I am currently helping a member here as best I can with his two MOPAR builds at the moment . . He had a big thread on his first one but erased it so his wife or girlfriend [or both] wouldn't see it, but he got that worked out and has since started a new thread which is the link below . . If you are into old cars, it might be interesting and you might have some helpful ideas for him, however, I feel I should first warn people that there are no references to ISIS taking over our Country or the new reissue of the AK47 rifle or people shooting unarmed animals solely for entertainment etc, so some might fund it a bit boring. :)

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/176348-1970-Dodge

Here's another FACT for you since you seen to be interested in them . . I have owned Hondas and Kawasakis and Bultacos and Yamahas and Suzukis and Ducaties and Ramblers and Fords and Chevys and Mopars and Porsches and Mercedes and liked every single one of them . . I have also had girlfriends and guy friends of different Nationalities and Ethnicities and Religious beliefs, therefore, I hardly consider myself biased, and am probably one of the leased biased people I know, but I suppose you could still be right.





You're joking right? Any rider, that has been around motocross bikes, or sport trikes, would have cranked up the compression damping as soon as they bottomed it out the first time.

No, I am definitely NOT kidding, and unlike you are doing here, I try not to make assumptions . . If I had tested a bike at Kawi and submitted a report that didn't include any changes I made to it and the affect those changes had, I wouldn't have had a job very long . . In my PROFESSIONAL opinion, if a Magazine didn't specifically state that they tried adjusting the damping, there should be no reason to assume they did, however, if you are that curious about it, I suggest to send John Neary a pm and ask him if they adjusted anything on the rear shock during the Magazine test he was involved in where he said the TECATE one worked better than the others but the Magazine said otherwise.


http://www.allstarshowgrams.com/characters/Helga.png

[John_Neary]

The 250 shootout of the 86 three wheelers i was part of for 3&4 wheel was more a photo shoot and i believe the magazine editors already had their minds made on what bike was placing in what spot of the shootout. We did not do extensive trial and error of what adjustments the stock bikes offered and if you notice we did not even swap bikes (i was on the Tecate, Don Turk was on the Tri Z and my friend and fellow CT racing sponsored rider Jared was on the Honda).

Before anyone tries to poo poo on the first gen Tecate keep in mind i was winning major races and finishing in the top five at the AATVA Nationals in 1986 on the first gen Tecate. No one, not a single person, was still racing and finishing in the top 40 at nationals on a first or second gen Honda in 1986.

Lets not be silly about our biases here folks, the first gen Tecate was a fantastic bike in the right hands.

[Red Rider]

Really? . . If that is the case, please post the quotes from the Magazines that you are referring to.Just for instance, here's a few:


...as one quote I posted from an earlier edition containing a review of the 84 TECATE,...


From Dirt Wheels Magazine October 1983 edition.
"In a nutshell we're very impressed.

The suspension is DIALED. Just like it's supposed to be, both ends proved to be supple over the little stuff and soaked up the heavy hits admirably. We could bottom it out when landing from good-sized jumps and drops, but it did so with no violence or surprises whatsoever.

Rider comfort is outstanding."


Unfortunately, you obviously fail to understand my posts, therefore, I suggest you read them again in hopes that they will make more sense the second time around,...I understand your posts quite clearly, so no thanks, reading them once was quite enough.


Another FACT that you appear to continually omit is that I raced the Pro class with box stock suspension and a stock swingarm and won several races and placed well in many others, therefore, if the suspension was as crappy as some imply, I must have almost been a GOD or Super human to do that, which I for one don't think is the case, but thanks for thinking I was if you do.I don't omit that FACT, I just don't feel the need to mention that FACT in practically every thread. Also, I don't see where anyone is saying it was crappy suspension, but according to the magazine testers, it wasn't perfect either. No sir, I was not thinking of you as a god. That would be worshiping a false idol.


I hardly consider myself biased, and am probably one of the leased biased people I know,...My bias comment was aimed at your love of the Tecate and nothing else. I'm sure you are a wonderful human being, and I just want you to know that I am not attacking you in any way.


No, I am definitely NOT kidding, and unlike you are doing here, I try not to make assumptions.Well, just because they didn't specifically say they adjusted the suspension settings, you assumed that they didn't. Who's making assumptions now? Ever heard of editors? Maybe the info was in test rider's report, but was edited out for whatever reason.

[barnett468]

.

Just for instance, here's a few:
Ok, I thought you meant something else . . Since El Camexican posted Magazine quotes first on this thread, and mine were merely a response to his and the questions he asked me, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to intentionally single me out and not say anything to him about the quotes he posted.



I don't omit that FACT, I just don't feel the need to mention that FACT in practically every thread. Also, I don't see where anyone is saying it was crappy suspension, but according to the magazine testers, it wasn't perfect either.

Well since I have basically stated on several occasions that the 84 and 85 suspension was not "perfect", your posts and other peoples post that refer to that fact seem pointless to me, therefore, if you do actually have any point to make at all, please feel free to do so so I can address it if I feel a need to and thereby possibly answer your questions and/or assuage your concerns.



My bias comment was aimed at your love of the Tecate and nothing else.
You are wrong again and it is now quite obvious that you do not understand my posts so my apologies for not making them clear enough for you and possibly some others . . I have posted my previous comment regarding this subject below for you in the hope that if you read enough times, you will understand it.



Here's another FACT for you since you seen to be interested in them . . I have owned Hondas and Kawasakis and Bultacos and Yamahas and Suzukis and Ducaties and Ramblers and Fords and Chevys and Mopars and Porsches and Mercedes and liked every single one of them





Well, just because they didn't specifically say they adjusted the suspension settings, you assumed that they didn't. Who's making assumptions now? Ever heard of editors? Maybe the info was in test rider's report, but was edited out for whatever reason.

It is not only poor judgement to make some assumptions, it can also be dangerous in some cases, and since the Magazne articles didn't mention anything about adjusting the suspension, imo it is far more reasonable to guess that they didn't.

If I live alone and I come home and all my bikes or cars are missing, I think it would be reasonable to guess that whomever took the items won't be bringing them back instead of guessing that they will.

The undeniable FACT remains, the information is either in the article or it is not . . That's it, period, end of story, and no matter how much you or others might want try to change that fact, it simply ain't never gonna happen . . For you to simply write into the article whatever you want to such as they did adjust the damping setting, which is exactly what it appears to me you are doing whether you realize it or not, is just plain wrong.

Also, perhaps you missed Johns post just above yours in which he clearly states the following which proves my point unless he is imaging things.


We did not do extensive trial and error of what adjustments the stock bikes offered and if you notice we did not even swap bikes...

[Red Rider]

Well since I have basically stated on several occasions that the 84 and 85 suspension was not "perfect", your posts and other peoples post that refer to that fact seem pointless to me,... Why do you keep mentioning the '84-85 Tecate. I thought this thread was about a new shock for an '87 Tecate.


It is not only poor judgement to make some assumptions, it can also be dangerous in some cases, and since the Magazne articles didn't mention anything about adjusting the suspension, imo it is far more reasonable to guess that they didn't. The undeniable FACT remains, the information is either in the article or it is not . . That's it, period, end of story, and no matter how much you or others might want try to change that fact, it simply ain't never gonna happen . . For you to simply write into the article whatever you want to such as they did adjust the damping setting, which is exactly what it appears to me you are doing whether you realize it or not, is just plain wrong.You're right, I assumed the testers would adjust the suspension settings, especially if they are going to knock off points for it in the shootout. Expecting anything less from the testers is just plain wrong. If the shootout was merely a photoshoot, then they must have had their minds made up already, as John stated. So, where are they getting their test data from, the individual tests of each bike? I know I've seen where they try different settings on the bikes in other tests, so I'm not wrong to expect it in this case.


Also, perhaps you missed Johns post just above yours in which he clearly states the following which proves my point unless he is imaging things.No, I saw it after I had already posted.

[barnett468]

Why do you keep mentioning the '84-85 Tecate.
Because El Camexican first brought it up when he asked me about the 85 and both it and the 84 are Gen I bikes and christph asked me about them after that.

From post 20.

Are you the one that did the R&D on the 85 & 86 Tecate as well?

From post 30.

Two, what is the exact difference between the 84 and 85 suspension? Can the linkage from the 84 be replaced with the 85 to fix the harsh bottoming problem? Thanks.




I thought this thread was about a new shock for an '87 Tecate.

Thread drift.



You're right, I assumed the testers would adjust the suspension settings, especially if they are going to knock off points for it in the shootout. Expecting anything less from the testers is just plain wrong. If the shootout was merely a photoshoot, then they must have had their minds made up already, as John stated. So, where are they getting their test data from, the individual tests of each bike? I know I've seen where they try different settings on the bikes in other tests, so I'm not wrong to expect it in this case.

You are correct in that you are not wrong to expect that these Mags "should" check the different damping settings, especially if they are having a problem, and I to have seen many test reviews on other bikes where they did just that, and the reason I know they tried different settings was because they clearly stated as much in the article, but you were assuming that just because it makes sense to try different settings that all the Mags were competent enough to do it in every case, which you now know is not the case which I have known for many years since I was in the business.

Also, if one put themselves in my shoes and saw something in an article like the rear suspension comments on an the 86 which they knew for a fact couldn't possibly be true unless something was faulty, you might understand my annoyance at the Magazine . . I understand people believing the article simply because it is in a Magazine, but imo, to believe everything one reads from a single source without verifying it from additional sources is unwise.

Some people think its wise to to go to a second Doctor to get a second opinion in some cases yet some of these same people don't think its necessary to read a different Magazine to verify what the National Enquirer wrote.



No, I saw it after I had already posted.
Ok, however, unlike myself, you have an edit button and therefore could have modified your post accordingly after seeing his post.
.

[barnett468]

what is the exact difference between the 84 and 85 suspension? Can the linkage from the 84 be replaced with the 85 to fix the harsh bottoming problem? Thanks.

Hey, sorry I missed this part . . The 85 uses a different rocker, dog bone/rod and shock . . The bottoming rubber on the 85 shock is also around 1" shorter than the one on the 84 shock.

Happy New Year!
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