Building a old school 350x TT racer.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Back in the day I never built a 350x full race bike, and as far as I know no one has since. Back then we didn't have low profile fenders, but now I do.

We didn't have a short track tank so you could really back it in to the corners.


I have just started building a short course tank based on the 85'-86' 250r tanks using the shrouds off a stock style tank to get more are to the 2 oil coolers.

This bike will be built to the rules for the Vintage class where we can only run up to .080 over in the stock cylinder. This will also be able to run in the new 200cc 2 stroke/ 350 4 stroke class, and the pro class if the customer wants to.

Getting the weight down is one of the goals which won't be much or easy because most of the weight is in the engine. I can get rid of 1st gear, the counter balancer, lighten and balance the crank and fly wheel, but other then that 10lbs I might cut the fins for more cooling mainly like the porky pine style cut I did on one of my 200x's.

I'm not sure where I'll end up on the swing are but I'm going to start with a plus 2 Cal-Fab and go from there. It will have a 10 inch front wheel and I'll just have to play with rear tires and sizes.

It's going to be a timely project over the winter months, but a fun one to see what a 350x can do.

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[Aulbaugh]

sounds like it's going be a beast. I'll definitely be following.

[Mickey Dunlap]

sounds like it's going be a beast. I'll definitely be following.

I see you have one in the works too.

[John_Neary]

I never got to own a 350x but oddly enough i still have about 30 hours of time riding them as i was the test rider for two magazine tests of the 350x as well as i did the test riding for DG when they developed their pipe for it and i gotta say it really liked how the bike handled, its great straight line stability and it had a really comfortable seating position.

I bet a full race one will be a heck of a lot of fun, keep us posted on the build. :)

[Aulbaugh]

Yes sir I do, trying to it turn it into something again and learning alot in the process.

[motoman1012002]

this is gonna be one sweet build

[userj8670]

I have been waiting for something like this for so long! Please keep us posted!

[Billy Golightly]

When I was racing oval track and TT down here in FL a few years ago, I raced against a guy with a pretty solidly built 350X and he did very, very well. I will post some pics when I am at home if I can stir a few up still.

[Billy Golightly]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224441&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224439&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224440&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224442&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224443&stc=1

THis bike was built by Walter - can't remember his last name and he was a member here back in the day but have not saw him or talked to him in probably 7-8 years. No hijack meant Mickey - just wanted to share these with some ideas and stuff to show his setup. On the oval tracks I could beat him pretty consistently, but there was this one kind of tight TT track we raced at (4th pic) and I always had a really hard time keeping up with him there. He definitely beat me more in that environment.

[Joseph Farrow]

IIRC Tom Carlson raced a 350X at Pine Lake back in the day.

[onformula1]

Back in the day I never built a 350x full race bike, and as far as I know no one has since. Back then we didn't have low profile fenders, but now I do.

We didn't have a short track tank so you could really back it in to the corners.


I have just started building a short course tank based on the 85'-86' 250r tanks using the shrouds off a stock style tank to get more are to the 2 oil coolers.

This bike will be built to the rules for the Vintage class where we can only run up to .080 over in the stock cylinder. This will also be able to run in the new 200cc 2 stroke/ 350 4 stroke class, and the pro class if the customer wants to.

Getting the weight down is one of the goals which won't be much or easy because most of the weight is in the engine. I can get rid of 1st gear, the counter balancer, lighten and balance the crank and fly wheel, but other then that 10lbs I might cut the fins for more cooling mainly like the porky pine style cut I did on one of my 200x's.

I'm not sure where I'll end up on the swing are but I'm going to start with a plus 2 Cal-Fab and go from there. It will have a 10 inch front wheel and I'll just have to play with rear tires and sizes.

It's going to be a timely project over the winter months, but a fun one to see what a 350x can do.

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Digging the tank, excellent idea/work!

The rest is very cool too.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Great pics Billy. I know a lot of people have raced the 350x, I just never seen one set up like our bike were back in the day. I rode mine at Powroll just to train on something heavy so when I raced my 200x I would be strong enough to race hard for the whole race, but I couldn't ride it like my 200x. It doesn't do much good to have the HP of a bigger motor if it doesn't handle as good so you can fully use the power. The prototype 350x we first built with the xr350 RFVC motor was based on the 200x and had everything set up good, just never got to race it before Honda wanted it to send to Japan.

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Now it's time to see if we can build it better, the motor is better then the RFVC 350.

[Ol Deuce]

The stance of that X is perfect! Low Wide & mean:Bounce:Bounce:Bounce Ol Deuce

[kiser]

I'm all eyes!! Can't wait to see the finished product!!

[bad to the bone]

Is there an update on the old school 350x TT racer trailprotrailpro building?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Is there an update on the old school 350x TT racer trailprotrailpro building?

No, I was grinding on the gas tank and ended up with some metal in my eyes and I haven't worked on it since.

[Orangecnty250r]

Should be a great build....wear those damn safety glasses!

[DohcBikes]

Back in the day I never built a 350x full race bike, and as far as I know no one has since. Do you not consider this a race bike? Surprising to see you disregard. Or are you only referring to flat track?

http://atvondemand.com/news/?p=8053

[onformula1]

No, I was grinding on the gas tank and ended up with some metal in my eyes and I haven't worked on it since.
Safety glasses plus a face shield

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[Mickey Dunlap]

Getting more work done on the 350x TT class racer. I can't believe all the bolts it takes to put a 3 wheeler frame together. Bolts pics for just the frame on the left, motor bolts on the right. Changed the piston again so it's taking longer then I want, but it takes time to get it right.


And I re-made a new mold for the 350x low profiles and changed a few things too.


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[n8r]

Imagine the weight savings if you could use titanium bolts!

[Mickey Dunlap]

Imagine the weight savings if you could use titanium bolts!


It's 10 pounds worth of bolts, it would save that much. I would save more getting rid of the counter balancer and maybe first gear. I'm not doing either of those things because it's not my bike and I'm up against a dead line once I getting running and set up to handle the way I want.

[barnett468]

Imagine the weight savings if you could use titanium bolts!

Yes, because Titanimum products are around 42% lighter than steel depending upon their makeup.

Anyone can easily use Titanium hardware, all it takes is money . There are a few companies that stock many different sized Ti nuts and bolts.

Most Ti bolts have a dished head which further reduces their weight and some are also hollow.

You can also buy Ti bar stock online and make a swingarm pivot bolt and front axle bolt, and steering stem, and damper rods if your rods are steel . If your tripple trees are steel you can make aluminum ones.

Titanium, aluminum, and stainless hardware.

https://www.probolt-usa.com/


Titanium, aluminum, stainless and brass stock.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=1353&step=2


Here's some new aluminum alloys.

http://www.howitworksdaily.com/which-aluminum-is-the-strongest/


This is a new steel alloy which as light and strong as titanium but should be around 90% cheaper if they mass produce it.

http://gizmodo.com/new-iron-aluminum-alloy-is-strong-and-light-as-titanium-1683920338
.

[Matt85'350x]

Getting more work done on the 350x TT class racer. I can't believe all the bolts it takes to put a 3 wheeler frame together. Bolts pics for just the frame on the left, motor bolts on the right. Changed the piston again so it's taking longer then I want, but it takes time to get it right.


And I re-made a new mold for the 350x low profiles and changed a few things too.


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I just got my fenders from you. I would have waited if I knew you were changing them. What were the changes and what version did I get?

[onformula1]

It's 10 pounds worth of bolts, it would save that much. I would save more getting rid of the counter balancer and maybe first gear. I'm not doing either of those things because it's not my bike and I'm up against a dead line once I getting running and set up to handle the way I want.

Have you removed first gear before, what did you replace it with?

How bad is the vibration with the counter balancer removed?

[Mickey Dunlap]

I just got my fenders from you. I would have waited if I knew you were changing them. What were the changes and what version did I get?


You got the new ones.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Have you removed first gear before, what did you replace it with?

How bad is the vibration with the counter balancer removed?

Yes I have removed 1st before, you just replace it with a aluminum spacer. You have to balance the crank and it still isn't a smooth as the counter balance motor, but I would do it for my own for the quicker revs and the 6lbs lighter engine. And I would porky pine the head and cylinder and replace the bolts, but that's some stuff you do when racing pro against other 350x's which never happen and never will. I'm just building a old school racer that no one built back then , or even now as far as I know.

[oldskool83]

I had 1 350x, and I got ride of it because there is no reason a motor needs to weight 85lbs lol! Looks nice however.

[86T3]

Are you going to race this one Mickey?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Are you going to race this one Mickey?

No it's for a customer.

[devilman]

What is your plan for lowering the rear?

[Mickey Dunlap]

What is your plan for lowering the rear?


We have a works shock and I'm going to put a zero pre load spring on it so I can back the spring off as much as I want and the clip won't come off, it will always have pressure on it. It also has a 2 inch longer Cal-Fab swing arm.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Two things that will keep you from winning races. One you push the shift lever under the case with your foot so you can't shift. The fix is to weld a washer on the top so it won't go under the case, simple fix. Next your seat falls off. It's real easy when racing for your seat latch to move around and un-latch it's self. I seen this at the first 3 wheeler race at Bedford proving grounds I went to last year. The racer was gaining on the leader and his seat popped off. Try riding the last few laps of MX with out a seat! Simple fix, two long bolts stuck down through the seat nubs and welded on to extend down below the rubber seat grommet with two wing nuts drilled to hold a spring and it won't happen again.

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[Fox250R]

Two things that will keep you from winning races. One you push the shift lever under the case with your foot so you can't shift. The fix is to weld a washer on the top so it won't go under the case, simple fix. Next your seat falls off. It's real easy when racing for your seat latch to move around and un-latch it's self. I seen this at the first 3 wheeler race at Bedford proving grounds I went to last year. The racer was gaining on the leader and his seat popped off. Try riding the last few laps of MX with out a seat! Simple fix, two long bolts stuck down through the seat nubs and welded on to extend down below the rubber seat grommet with two wing nuts drilled to hold a spring and it won't happen again.

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Heck. Mines fallen off at the dunes many times lol!

[onformula1]

Two things that will keep you from winning races. One you push the shift lever under the case with your foot so you can't shift. The fix is to weld a washer on the top so it won't go under the case, simple fix. Next your seat falls off. It's real easy when racing for your seat latch to move around and un-latch it's self. I seen this at the first 3 wheeler race at Bedford proving grounds I went to last year. The racer was gaining on the leader and his seat popped off. Try riding the last few laps of MX with out a seat! Simple fix, two long bolts stuck down through the seat nubs and welded on to extend down below the rubber seat grommet with two wing nuts drilled to hold a spring and it won't happen again.

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Mickey, what did use use for the washer....it looks familiar.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Mickey, what did use use for the washer....it looks familiar.

I think it was a stock Mojave 250 axle washer to hold on their rubber hub cap if you will.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Piston's are done!:w00t:

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[xrider]

Better buy one d*** good decompression cable. My 425 is a pain to kick over, and I'm nowhere near that high of compression.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Better buy one d*** good decompression cable. My 425 is a pain to kick over, and I'm nowhere near that high of compression.

I have built 13:1 530's and as long as you understand how to kick them they start easy, but every once in a while they will bite you!:D

[xrider]

Yeah as long as you let the kick start roll completely back off the decompression than it is a breeze.

[bad to the bone]

Is there an update on this? And do u still make the fiberglass rear fenders for the 350x or the 250r?

[userj8670]

Thanks for the update Mickey! Any more pix to tease us with?!

[Mickey Dunlap]

Well it took 30 years to build the first 350x short coarse gas tank nick name the 350rx tank.

In the old day you went into the first corner wide open and pitched in, but just because I built it, will he use it? The question is, will "Ditch Pitch it" !!!!!!!!?

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[RubberSalt]

I'm not to late am I?
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I love where this is going, just read through the last few pages.

I've never owned a 350x, but let me through some ideas out there. <-- makes me sound credible right? :-D

As for weight reduction, has anyone attempted an aluminum frame? I know Yamaha switched some dirt bikes over in recent years. With the correct engineering, i don't see it being to much of a problem. There would be some inherent flexing I'm sure.

Aftermarket swing arms for other machines have been tubular, they look like they would weigh less.

Everything else i'm thinking off wouldn't contribute much weight individually, but may add up. The list is to large to start and I'm sure it doesn't need to be stated.

[350xtrike.rider]

That's the coolest 350 tank I've ever seen! Can't wait to see the bike together! Good work as usual Mickey!

[Matt85'350x]

I'm not to late am I?
233225

I love where this is going, just read through the last few pages.

I've never owned a 350x, but let me through some ideas out there. <-- makes me sound credible right? :-D

As for weight reduction, has anyone attempted an aluminum frame? I know Yamaha switched some dirt bikes over in recent years. With the correct engineering, i don't see it being to much of a problem. There would be some inherent flexing I'm sure.

Aftermarket swing arms for other machines have been tubular, they look like they would weigh less.

Everything else i'm thinking off wouldn't contribute much weight individually, but may add up. The list is to large to start and I'm sure it doesn't need to be stated.

Usually the least expensive method to lose weight is if the anchor on top of the seat drops a few pounds! Not saying that's the case this time but I've seen some people drop some serious money on weight savings for their machine when they could have went on a diet and dropped 50 pounds themselves! :welcome:

Love the tank Mickey! I like the look of the R scoops better and you get still get OEM ones brand new!

[Mickey Dunlap]

I'm not to late am I?
233225

I love where this is going, just read through the last few pages.

I've never owned a 350x, but let me through some ideas out there. <-- makes me sound credible right? :-D

As for weight reduction, has anyone attempted an aluminum frame? I know Yamaha switched some dirt bikes over in recent years. With the correct engineering, i don't see it being to much of a problem. There would be some inherent flexing I'm sure.

Aftermarket swing arms for other machines have been tubular, they look like they would weigh less.

Everything else i'm thinking off wouldn't contribute much weight individually, but may add up. The list is to large to start and I'm sure it doesn't need to be stated.

The frame is one of the lightest out there already, a aluminum frame may save 2-3 pounds. It does have a Cal-Fab aluminum swing are going on it, but it's really the engine that weighs so much and the most I can lighten it is 2 pounds in gears and fly wheel. It is what it is. The tank is a lot lighter then the aluminum one I seen at Trike Fest. This one will keep it at least 7 pounds lighter because you can't fill it up with another gal. of gas. lol

[Mickey Dunlap]

Usually the least expensive method to lose weight is if the anchor on top of the seat drops a few pounds! Not saying that's the case this time but I've seen some people drop some serious money on weight savings for their machine when they could have went on a diet and dropped 50 pounds themselves! :welcome:

Love the tank Mickey! I like the look of the R scoops better and you get still get OEM ones brand new!

The good news is I don't have to drop the 100lbs. I would need to get to race weight because Bryan Ditch only weighs 170 or so.

[Mickey Dunlap]

I know I know, I said I was putting the front end on the 350x TT racer Sat. , but after 8hrs of buffing the triple clamps and forks and I was getting ready to bolt it together I lost my balls! Any one know the first thing you need to put the triples on is your balls. Took me two day of searching for them until I went and found some balls at ACE Hardwear. "ACE is the place", so I got it together today! If it keeps going like this it's going to be a long build!!!!!!!!!!!


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[Matt85'350x]

Looking good, are you running dual coolers? Where is the coil going to mount? Why not run the tapered bearings?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Looking good, are you running dual coolers? Where is the coil going to mount? Why not run the tapered bearings?

Yes, we need cooler oil to the head, the highest wear area. I'll make a new mount for the coil. No time to order stuff, the race is in 9 days.

[userj8670]

No frame gussets?

[Mickey Dunlap]

No frame gussets?


It's for flat track racing only.

[350xtrike.rider]

Update?:confused:

[Mickey Dunlap]

Update?:confused:


Yea the update is it's fighting me all the way, 2 days to build a rear lowering kit, front brake caliper another full day. The 300ex axle is going to be a all day job machining it to line up and the motor still isn't in it and running. I have 48 hours to get it done. This is what happen when you start with the nastiest 350x Bryan Ditch had and try to build the best trike you can.

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[oscarmayer]

Mickey, I am running the same axle and setup on the rear as you are. instead of machining all those extra stuff, I went ahead and just made 4 round collars that are .5" thick and drilled a hole in the center. now all I have to do is find 1/2" longer bolts to bolt the sprocket on and I am done. it will hold w/o any issues. this has been proven on many 350Xs running dunes and drags and such.
just an idea to help speed it up.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Mickey, I am running the same axle and setup on the rear as you are. instead of machining all those extra stuff, I went ahead and just made 4 round collars that are .5" thick and drilled a hole in the center. now all I have to do is find 1/2" longer bolts to bolt the sprocket on and I am done. it will hold w/o any issues. this has been proven on many 350Xs running dunes and drags and such.
just an idea to help speed it up.

Thanks but I can't chance that on a race bike.

[350xtrike.rider]

Im dieing to see it! :pics: :pics: :pics:

[Mickey Dunlap]

Im dieing to see it! :pics: :pics: :pics:

I worked so many hours on it only to come up short with a problem I haven't figured out yet so I didn't get it done.

[350xtrike.rider]

I worked so many hours on it only to come up short with a problem I haven't figured out yet so I didn't get it done.

That sucks....

[Mickey Dunlap]

That sucks....

Yea it more then sucked, but I took just a few min. yesterday and took a look at it with rested eyes and found out the new clutch plates were .080 thinner when all stacked together. I don't know if the plates were packaged wrong or what but this was the problem I found when I took a used 85' engine apart and put the used plates to the right of these new ones.

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[big specht]

Honda used thinner plates in there bigger bikes like the 500's and up. I bet you got xr steel's in that stack

[Mickey Dunlap]

Honda used thinner plates in there bigger bikes like the 500's and up. I bet you got xr steel's in that stack

It's the fibers that are thinner, so I think for the 502 kit I'm doing I'm going to a 7 plate clutch using these, then mod the clutch are so I get the leverage back because it would be at the wrong angle and make it too stiff to pull if my springs don't bind.

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[Mickey Dunlap]

Just a few quick pics of the 350x TT trike. It's not done by far but it's getting there.

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[Mickey Dunlap]

Hopefully next week I will dyno the stock 350x and this one, then the 502cc x.

[Louis Mielke]

Definitely a nice looking 350!

[big specht]

Hopefully next week I will dyno the stock 350x and this one, then the 502cc x.

That will be nice to see the power differance. The Dyno you are using can it measure torque ?

[Mickey Dunlap]

That will be nice to see the power differance. The Dyno you are using can it measure torque ?

Yes, but most people want to see the HP numbers, which really means nothing, I like the torque numbers too.

[DohcBikes]

All dynos only measure torque. Horsepower is a solution to a mathematical equation derived from measuring torque. Without knowing torque, you can't know the horsepower. torque x RPM / 5252 = Horsepower

[Mickey Dunlap]

All dynos only measure torque. Horsepower is a solution to a mathematical equation derived from measuring torque. Without knowing torque, you can't know the horsepower. torque x RPM / 5252 = Horsepower

That's why I said yes, but most customer only care about the HP numbers.

[DohcBikes]

That's why I said yes, but most customer only care about the HP numbers.Cool Mickey. I was offering some insight as to how a dyno works, in case anybody wanted to learn. Torque is a measurable force, horsepower was created as a relatable term to compare the work a steam engine could produce with the work a horse could produce.

[big specht]

Ok most dyno's only show hp reading

[Mickey Dunlap]

i like it but the crazy hi handle bars

It feels like a stocker with the taller seat, beside you have to go with this setup to get it to turn sharp and clear the top of the gas tank.

[bad to the bone]

Whats the bend & model of the handlebars? Might be getting that exact type of handlebars but i need to know what to order.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Whats the bend & model of the handlebars? Might be getting that exact type of handlebars but i need to know what to order.

They a the flat track bend from Vortex.

[NeverLift]

Fantastic build. What size tire's are you running on the rear?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Fantastic build. What size tire's are you running on the rear?

I think they are 15x10x8 or something close to that.

[Dirtcrasher]

Looks great and I'm certain will perform awesome!! :beer

[Mickey Dunlap]

Pretty good day on the dyno.

First off the stock 350x makes 22 rwhp. The Bryan Ditch 350x class racer came in at just over 38rwhp, I am very happy with that but it would only turn up to 8500rpm because of the rev retard in the stock CDI. We advanced the timing 5* but that did something I never seen, it knocked it down to 7500rpm, made the same HP up to that as it did stock, just kicked the retard in early, so that didn't work. lol

Then came the ATC 70, that was a big FLOP!!!!!! The rear axle I had made had a little wobble on the right side, well that little wobble turned into a big flop at 8000rpms and 18hp and that's as high as we could go or it would have broke the axle in half I'm sure. It was just starting into the power and I'm very sure it would hit 22hp, the same as a stock 350x.

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[3wheelieo]

What about the 250x numbers im dyeing to see those.

[350xtrike.rider]

Put the stock axel in the 70 just for the dyno test! 22rwhp from a 70?!? That's insane!

[Mickey Dunlap]

Never got to dyno it, it just went to the track. I didn't have time and I didn't have the new cam built yet so it will get done some day, plus I need to build a new pipe. Never ending R&D!

[Mickey Dunlap]

Too late, the customer took it to New York already.

Go here and you can see a video he made riding it. https://www.facebook.com/mickey.dunlap.7

[Mickey Dunlap]

It just dawned on me, I built the first 350x TT racer 32 years ago! Good thing Honda came up with a much better engine then the old xr350 RFVC we used back then for the proto type. The 2016 version came out much better, who says we don't get better with age! lol

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