350x question about wiring/headlight switch

[ps2fixer]

I'm replacing my handbar switches with a new one, and in the wire diagram (attached below) has an optional connection point (Brown + White/Yellow). Is there ANYTHING out there that actually uses those connections, hondaline accessories etc? I'm thinking about omitting it to save a little cost etc.

I have all the other wiring figured out, and slowly working on putting it together. This is kind of a "test fit" for a handlebar switch I came across that has the correct switching properties to match our older machines.

Some of the guts actually interchange with the 350x headlight switch guts. Of what I can see, the only thing that does not fit is the lights on/off switch, it is the correct size, fits in the housing nice, but the back side is too thick and won't assemble sadly. My 350x is going to have a starter button "extra", half thinking about wiring it up to a horn :). If all goes well, I'll probably wire one up for a 200es big red (and any other machines that uses the same layout) and offer them up on ebay/3ww shop.

I also added a photo of the new switches (right) vs old (left). Same width, same layout on switches, extra starter button, and the back plate has a locator pin that has to be removed in my application.

Btw, for the people out there that has tried this before, yes.. the kill switch is wired correctly, no backwards kill switch issues here :).

If anyone wants me to do this for their machine, I should be able to make it work for just about anything, just remember it does not have the choke slider like the 250es/sx, but I'm working on that design too. Price won't be too bad, have not figured it out yet, but will be somewhere around the price for the chinese reproduction ones on ebay, except these are actual Honda parts adapted to work on older machines.

[jeswinehart]

Yes, those 2 wires feed the sub harness for lighting on speedo's, tach's, odometer, and the even the ultra rare chronometer.
They can also be used to power any low draw, 12 volt device such as a GPS, Garmin, or perhaps separate LED lighting.
By the way, the sub harness pictured is virtually impossible to find/buy (hint~hint).

[ps2fixer]

Very interesting... so the speedo harness I assume is only for lighting? The thing that confuses me with the optional connections there is, both wires are positive, no ground. One is power all the time (white/yellow), and the other is switched with the lights (brown), so I assume anything that hooks up to it, somehow grounds to the frame. I see in the diagram there is some funky X like hookup to get the ground worked out. Pretty much was the answer I was expecting though, more or less rarely used, but does have a purpose being there.

I have no problem making any sub harness, been trying to get details on the atc70 lighting kit wiring on and off for a little while, mainly wire length and I think the socket, or if the socket connects to the sub harness. Don't really remember where I left off on it.

Where do you find instructions/photos like that? Must be in some manual/order/parts book? I think the photos are too "end user" for me to understand, I can't matching things up in my head what goes where lol. I'm hoping the other end of the harness that holds most likely a light bulb isn't the socket I think it is (same style as the dash lights on our machines), because if it is, there is very little being made still that has the same socket. The only thing I could find was a motorcycle dash wiring that was over $100 to buy for 2 or 4 sockets that *might* be the same as the dash sockets. Not sure how likely reproduction of the rubber would be, if you wanted to give it a shot I'm all for it, there are tons of machines they were used in for dash lights, some motorcycle tail lights, speeometers and such on road bikes all discontinued or super expensive.

However.. the idea of the GPS on a 350x is cool, personally never knew those connections where there till today or last year trike fest I'd have a hookup for my garmin on both of my 3 wheelers (the other was my 250es).

Gah, researching one thing to make leads to so many other things. I kind of want to dissect one of them dash sockets and see what connector they used. Seems like laying 2 wires in with the ends crimped on into a mold seems possible, not sure how hard it would be to keep things lined up though.

You have any more suggestions for wiring projects? I have been going on a rampage lately going in every direction at once already lol.

[ps2fixer]

Now that I did a little more research on it, kind of runny how the wired the speedo, male -> female for both green and brown, but in the 350x application, there is a dedicated wire for it, I guess it just has 2 ways possible to hook it up. Of what I see in photos, the wiring does not come off the speedo? If someone needed one rewired (assuming they come apart semi-easy), it would be fairly cheap for me to put new wires on it, most would be the time of making the wires up and soldering. Actually... soldering isn't too hard to do, maybe "rewire" kits would have an interest?

Still researching new found goodies :)

[jeswinehart]

None of those items comes apart easily and with out leaving witness marks.
The constant hot in the wiring loom is too give the tach 12 volt power to operate. Pictured is a tach I repaired the plastic housing on.

[ps2fixer]

Neat photos (first one mainly). So of what I can see it looks like the wires solder on the board internally, meaning if someone was to replace the wires, they would have the rubber boot handy assuming it was in good shape when they took it apart. The new wire would be more or less cheap even though I don't think I'd sell many sets. Probably would be around $10-15 and the buyer would have to solder the wires on their self (or have a friend do it). Stinks that taking them apart leaves signs of it, but I guess a functioning tach is better than one that looks pretty with bad wires. Do you happen to know about how long the wire length was? Overshooting a slight bit probably would be best unless you still have the tach around.

I didn't know the tachs needed power to operate, I thought the pulse of each fire was enough to rise the needle, I think that is how car ones work at least, of course that was a 1968 442 Olds Cutlass Tic Toc Tach I was testing for my dad, so maybe that one was different.

[ps2fixer]

Just got back from a short ride, everything functions SO MUCH BETTER being new. Reason I wanted to replace my switches is because the bight/dim switch went bad, when I took it apart to trace the wiring and such I notice the bottom side of the switch was broken off where the little ball+spring is for the "click" on/off. Now that I know the guts (mainly kill switch) are a working match. Now I can take apart the 350x one a bit more and hope to find some part numbers on the separate parts... just checked sadly there are none :(.

That kill switch slider always gets me, can't seem to figure out how to take it off w\o leaving marks all over the housing.

[oscarmayer]

send me your old switch, and $35 and I'll rebuild it and make it looks very good when done. the $35 includes return shipping.

[ps2fixer]

What do you do about the old sun faded plastics? I was actually looking into rebuilding them (or reproducing) down the road, but didn't know anyone else already offered the service. Cleaning contacts and replacing the switch (new or used) I can do, just the plastics is where I'm hung up. Not questioning your skills or know-how, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can. For example plastic molding is a neat thing I'd like to get into, but currently funds are pretty limited. I'm not sure if the switch housing is worth trying to save, there are some pretty deep gouges in it and is slightly warped. All the switches are full of dirt, but connection points look good. Machine has lived outside for the last 10+ years so kind of surprised it isn't any worse.

I added the photo of the damaged switch body, I'm pretty sure I have a spare around if the black top switches uses the same plastic part (its from a 250es). I think I also have another switch with the yellow/gray topped switches laying around too.

[oscarmayer]

i tend to softly wet-sand them and then work on polishing them some. they will not be 100% like new, but they will not be white, and we can even paint them.
i tear them down further to where even the switching parts are torn down so i can sand the contacts, re-lube with die-electric grease, and re-assemble.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ lets see a pic of your rebuilt switch...

[ps2fixer]

i tend to softly wet-sand them and then work on polishing them some. they will not be 100% like new, but they will not be white, and we can even paint them.
i tear them down further to where even the switching parts are torn down so i can sand the contacts, re-lube with die-electric grease, and re-assemble.

I see, $35 is a good price for the sanding/polishing effort and cleaning up the contacts etc. I'll keep you in mind if I run across housings that are savable. Personally not big on the repainting except for the lettering, but I know the paint makes it look tons better too. Interested in how you sand the toggle switch top plastic, is it by hand or some sort of sand blast? Hand sanding them would be killer on the hands.

@Dirtcrasher

I assume your last message was at oscarmayer? If so I wouldn't mind pics too of before/after if you have some ;).

[oscarmayer]

@Dirtcrasher: I will send a link of an article I wrote and did not publish. will publish this week.

@ps2fixer: I do it all by hand. it really does not take that long. it does not look perfect, but looks tons better than it did before. I do paint the numbers/lettering back on as well with a pin and some nail polish. (use pin to make sure it gets on the netter only) it takes me about 3 hours start to finish, but I enjoy doing the stuff so meh, why not?

[ps2fixer]

I'd love the link too :), I read one lately for 70's motorcycles, but the housing for the switches was metal instead of plastic.

Long ago I remember reading about coloring plastics with hot water and dye (like for clothing), I wonder if that could remove the sun fading.

Another thing you could rebuild are the key switches, generally the wire goes bad, or the contacts inside need to be cleaned. Really easy to do, but most people would be scared to open it up. The lock section separates from the electrical, so two bad ones can be made into one good one too.

For my own personal machines, I'm slowly trying to find newer model replacements for them as several are in pretty sad shape (I ride the ugliest machines though I'll add photos for the lols), but some I part out have pretty good housings so I'll keep you in mind for them. When I buy a new switch, I take it apart and see if any of the parts interchange with the other housings. The first one I bought (above) has the same guts as a 350x except the lights on/off switch is a little thicker than the old ones, so new parts are possible to get with some research. It is generally a pretty confusing topic so I'm not sure if I'll do a writeup on the interchanges or not, there is no part numbers for the internal parts, so hard to really say what each part fits.




Machines left to right (because they can be hard to ID)

250sx with big red front end, tank, and rear fenders welded to frame, car are just a bonus for the look :D

250es big red, was one of the most used machines in my yard, when work is to be done, this machine comes out. I bought it this way, but am slowly putting better parts on it, like a sun faded gas tank, better rear tires, front shocks need work (they freeze in the winter, too much water in there)

350x this is the most used machine in my yard currently, engine was tired in the photo, I bought another on here and put a DG exhaust on due to the oem one being welded to the engine. I have $600+ worth of parts sitting around for it (new forks etc), just haven't had time for my own machines. Besides that, I have a nicer 350x that needs a little TLC to be a solid machine.

I have a few of the nice machines too, but they don't get rode as much as I'm trying to keep them pretty nice, and I ride pretty hard.