Atv laws central MI ?

[Tri-pod]

So I got a "warning" from the cops for riding my 125 on the dirt roads, I thought it was legal to ride ATVs on the shoulder of the roads? So apparently the new laws that Granholm put in don't include 3 wheelers... BS imo can anyone clarify? I just wanna known if I should say f it and keep riding or do what he says and trailer it to the trails :-(

[ebaccm26]

The new laws you speak of only allowed each municipality to make it legal, whether you can or not depends on what your town/city/whatever has decided. The city I live in has made no changes based on these new laws. I've never seen a cop out on the dirt roads around here anyways though so I don't worry about it.

[Tri-pod]

Yeah I've been riding for a while and it was the first time I have seen one, I failed to mention I didn't have my helmet on, that's probably why he pulled me over, maybe lol oh well at least he didn't give me a ticket

[hublake]

I would guess the no helmet was what got you the warning. Did you have the ATV sticker? What county were you in?

[Tri-pod]

I would guess the no helmet was what got you the warning. Did you have the ATV sticker? What county were you in?

I am in Clare county. He said quads, three wheelers, and dirt bikes are not allowed even on the shoulders, but golf carts, gators, and side by sides are allowed... Sounds like BS to me but I don't know.
He also said I should have a helmet on but seemed to be more focused on me being on the dirt roads with the three wheeler. My wife said maybe he's just having a bad day lol

[hublake]

I am in Clare county. He said quads, three wheelers, and dirt bikes are not allowed even on the shoulders, but golf carts, gators, and side by sides are allowed... Sounds like BS to me but I don't know.
He also said I should have a helmet on but seemed to be more focused on me being on the dirt roads with the three wheeler. My wife said maybe he's just having a bad day lol

Was this warning given by the county sheriff or state police Check with the county sheriff department to see what is legal.

[hublake]

google Clare County Michigan Orv Law and click on the second listing.

[atctim]

this should answer all of your questions. https://www.vvmapping.com/trails/MICounties/ordinances/Clare_ORV_Ordinance.pdf

looks like the police officer was wrong - but you didn't get a ticket - so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[nd4speed]

The police will constantly lie to you in order to start an argument because as soon is there is an argument, the courts need to make a ruling on who is right and who is wrong. An since the police, judges, and prosecutors are all paid by the same system, they usually protect themselves and their pay checks. Scare tactics and armed robbery is all part of their game to tax and enslave.

[wonderboy]

Not sure how their paychecks are tied to the number of court cases... seems like they will be paid regardless if they are on the street or in court... but I agree that you can get some of these guys just looking for an argument without knowing the rules themselves.

The ordinance says you can ride on county roads, but it does also say you have to have a helmet on. You also need to be 16 to ride a 3-wheeler ANYWHERE except your own private land.

The ATV laws recently changed, and there are some additional requirements now (for residents). Now, you are required to title your ATV. Of course, if you never go off of your own land, this doesn't apply necessarily. But to ride on any public land, you have to be titled. Also, what used to be called an "ORV Sticker" is now an "ORV License". Same basic thing, but you ALSO need a "Trail Permit" to use any state trails, routes, or areas. So you need to pay two fees, one for the ORV License, and another for the Trail Permit.

Lots of info on the DNR's website:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10365_15070---,00.html

Here is the ORV Handbook. Lots of info here:
http://www.offroad-ed.com/michigan/handbook/
(click on "web version" to just view in your browser)

[nd4speed]

wow, the have to have a title thing I have not heard of, but that makes no sense if the vehicle was grandfathered under the old laws. They always tell you to title it so it can be taxed but if it never was and you dont sell it, it wont make a difference.

I have a received a ticket for riding out of bounds in MI on an untitled bike and my friend on untitled ATV. The DNR said nothing, they ran VIN to see if stolen and that was that.

Legally you are not supposed to sell or buy a vehicle without a title after march 1995 in MI, so the invisible hand can go in your pocket and rob you of your money.

[wonderboy]

Its all about the money. I had to laugh when I read on the DNR site how the increased fees for "ATV Licenses" and "Trail Permits" will go into improving the trails, expanding them, etc, etc... Yea, right!

I've been gradually titling all of my machines, but it is a pain, and requires two days in a row in the SOS. First day: explain to the person behind the counter why it doesn't currently have a title (because nobody titled them back in the day because it wasn't required!), then wait for the VIN search to make sure it isn't stolen which will be complete on the next day.

[fieldy]

wow, the have to have a title thing I have not heard of, but that makes no sense if the vehicle was grandfathered under the old laws. They always tell you to title it so it can be taxed but if it never was and you dont sell it, it wont make a difference.

I have a received a ticket for riding out of bounds in MI on an untitled bike and my friend on untitled ATV. The DNR said nothing, they ran VIN to see if stolen and that was that.

Legally you are not supposed to sell or buy a vehicle without a title after march 1995 in MI, so the invisible hand can go in your pocket and rob you of your money.

So you got the ticket for being untitled? Or being out of bounds. Did you pay the "ticket" and if so, how much did they steal? So that I know what to expect someday. It' all lies and crookery, I tell ya!

[nd4speed]

The police can and will lie to you. And everything you say, can and will be used against you, and you arent supposed to lie to them. It is the perfect recipe for an argument not a service. City, county, state governments are now mostly all incorporated. So being a corporation requires you to generate revenue and cover operating costs. Sadly, like the city of Detroit, pensions, which are tied to the stock market, are a big part of their cost. And the market and bond prices can have dire impacts on all these corporations fiscal health.

The borrowing and taxing is out of control and the pyramid scheme can not last forever. Detroit is the latest example, and it can happen everywhere at every level.

The example of 2 separate stickers (now instead of 1 before), creating more waste along with doubling the price is a perfect example taxation without providing any better service. The trails will improve because some people will no longer be able to afford all this tax and they will no longer use them at all or as much. Then revenues will go down and they will have to tax more.

Well not to go to far off topic, but I have read the ORV laws on the government website along with titling law. If there was a change, that says your orv/motorcycle is no longer grandfathered and you must now immediately march to the SOS and title everything you have, I would be very surprised. Not that I do not believe this could happen, it just does not seem likely. But keep in mind they decreed and said the new law of the land is gold is illegal to be possessed by any citizen and you must hand it over now in exchange for some peanuts or we will imprison you and have our way with you- gold reserve act of 1934.

I am also very interested in title theory. Some say title and registration is a corruption of publicly announcing you own some object. The title does not establish ownership, but rather the free use of the property. So when you surrender the manufacturer's certificate of origin (say for a car) in exchange for a title and sign off on it, you gave away ownership. Which leads some to read about uniform law and UCC. It is a good idea for everyone to read these. As far as I can tell, the constitution and law of the land is long gone and has been replaced by commercial codes for corporate fictions. Seems it is some adaptation of maritime law of the high seas because it is world law for which no borders exist like when one is floating in the middle of the ocean.

I have asked a car dealer salesperson and his manager to hand me my certificate of origin that I paid tens of thousands of dollars for and they would fumble around saying they cant and that's not how it works and blah blah blah. They use it to establish ownership. Their responses seemed evasive when I told them I would simply go to the SOS and title it myself- no differently than they would. Almost seemed they did not possess the certificate physically. Ask to see it and for a copy of it for your records and see what they say. Maybe someone here works at a dealer and can tell me where all the certificates are held initially. After title is issued the State holds of the MCO.

I also found some very interesting things when I did a chain of title search on a property of mine. The MERS computer database system breaks the chain and can not logically hold title. It is a computer not an individual or business. There must be a public paper trail and signatures. Well they decided to skip that when they bundled mortgage backed securities and sold them on the open market.

In a nutshell. "Thanks to the Mortgage Electronic Registry System's (“MERS”) failure to accurately
complete and/or publically record property conveyances in the frenzy of banks securitizing home
loans and in subsequent foreclosure actions,neighbors to a foreclosed property (with a sequential conveyance) as well as the foreclosed property itself will have unclear boundaries and clouded/unmarketable titles making it difficult, if not impossible, for these homeowners to sell their properties and for subsequent purchasers to obtain title insurance on that property.
MERS now keeps electronic records on about half of the home mortgages in the United States."

How about civil forfeiture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

[nd4speed]

So you got the ticket for being untitled? Or being out of bounds. Did you pay the "ticket" and if so, how much did they steal? So that I know what to expect someday. It' all lies and crookery, I tell ya!

I got a ticket for being off the designated trail. I think it was like $125. Also my friend was told he needed a drivers license and his atv could be impounded which also was not true and did not happen. But if he crossed a road which requires a license and they saw him then they would have had a case.

[nd4speed]

The state of the public defender system highlighted by John Oliver should shock you and clue you into the fact the system is corrupt and out to rob and enslave the masses, guilty or innocent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=71&v=USkEzLuzmZ4

Low level infraction tickets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5mwymTIJU