ATC 185s (200 engine) Bogs when throttle is open wide, brand new carburetor

[Degoragon]

I have been having this problem with my 185s. It idles great with the new carburetor, but if I gas it from idle while still, it Bogs down and tries to die, and the same it I hold it wide open when in gear. It backfires as well. It doesn't matter how its adjusted, even at 3.5 turns out on the mixture screw, still the same problem! I've tried adjusting both the mixture and the throttle stop to no avail! This is the second brand new carburetor I have bought for it, and this one is made In Japan, not china like the first.

I've tried rebuilding the old one and buying new, nothing. Starts and dies with the old one.

The trike is a 1983 ATC 185s. And the motor is a stock (as far as I know) 200 from an 83 ATC 200. The exhaust is stock, and it runs a brand new foam air filter.

Any ideas? I'm pulling my hair out here!

[John_Neary]

what does your spark plug look like? is the area around the electrode tip dark and oily or tan and kinda burnt looking?

also what does the end of your muffler look like? is it damp with unburnt fuel or is it totally dry after you have taken your bike for a full throttle run?

[Jmoozy27]

Did you use the jets from the old carb? If not I would at least put the main jet from the old carb into the new carb. A lot of the Chinese eBay carbs use generic jet not oem.

[barnett468]

.
ok, forget about what it does when you stab the throttle in neutral for now . . Just worry about how it runs while you are actually riding it.

If it stutters/burbles even the tiniest bit when you accelerate, it is rich somewhere . . If it simply hesitates as if it is out of gas, it is lean.

Post a photo of the plug . . The plug on the right is shiny which means it is wet which means its oily . . It is possibly rich too but its hard to tell because of black deposits from the oil . . This engine should be repaired . . The middle plug is perfect . . The left plug is lean.

................These photos will show what John was explaining.

..............http://i.imgur.com/eCSbd.jpg

...............http://www.4secondsflat.com/Plug-2.jpg


This plug is bone dry so the black means it is rice . . If both the threads and the porcelain is black, i would start by reducing the main jet size first . . In the case of a plug that has extremely heavy deposits like this, I would go down 3 sizes on the main because just one will not be nearly enough and two will likely no be enough . . Four would be too much.

http://www.dansmc.com/spcarbon.jpg

[barnett468]

.
i would start by doing the following:

If the gas is old or yellow at all, change it . . Yellow gas is either oil or contaminated by rust in the tank or both.

Check the float level . . If it is excessively high, it can cause a rich or flooding condition.

..................Here's an example of it a little too high . . It should be just below the solid black line in your case . . If it is at the dotted line, it will still not cause a problem even though it is just a little high . . If if is above the dotted line, I would definitely fix it by bending the small metal tab slightly that depresses the needle, slightly upward toward the top of the carb.

If the float is plastic, it requires heat to bend it, and this should only be done by someone whom is very experienced, otherwise you might end up with a puddle of melted plastic which will no longer fit very well.

.................................http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/motoforge/2010-08-01_013312_Float_level_adjustment.jpg


............................................. Here's another in which you can see the is level way too low.


........................................http://www.bbburma.net/FujiFotos/FloatHeight/DSCF2434.jpg[/QUOTE]

[Degoragon]

.
ok, forget about what it does when you stab the throttle in neutral for now . . Just worry about how it runs while you are actually riding it.

If it stutters/burbles even the tiniest bit when you accelerate, it is rich somewhere . . If it simply hesitates as if it is out of gas, it is lean.

Post a photo of the plug . . The plug on the right is shiny which means it is wet which means its oily . . It is possibly rich too but its hard to tell because of black deposits from the oil . . This engine should be repaired . . The middle plug is perfect . . The left plug is lean.

................These photos will show what John was explaining.

..............http://i.imgur.com/eCSbd.jpg

...............http://www.4secondsflat.com/Plug-2.jpg


This plug is bone dry so the black means it is rice . . If both the threads and the porcelain is black, i would start by reducing the main jet size first . . In the case of a plug that has extremely heavy deposits like this, I would go down 3 sizes on the main because just one will not be nearly enough and two will likely no be enough . . Four would be too much.

http://www.dansmc.com/spcarbon.jpg

The latter sounds more like it, the hesitation. It tries to die when I throttle it. I noticed it gives off a lot less smoke than with the old carb and the exhaust is dry. Seems like its lean.

I tried changing the main jet with the old one when I bought the first new carb, it ran worse than before and was very hard to start. The second carb isn't as bad, but it still runs like that.

[Degoragon]

The old carb did the exact opposite, judging by what's been said here, it must have ran too rich, and the new ones too lean. I tried putting the jets from the new one in it, and it ran even richer than before. Adjust ing the carbs does nothing on any of the three.

[barnett468]

.

The old carb did the exact opposite, judging by what's been said here, it must have ran too rich, and the new ones too lean. I tried putting the jets from the new one in it, and it ran even richer than before. Adjust ing the carbs does nothing on any of the three.

the fuel mix screw is mainly for idle.

[cap]

You should check the timing also to rule it out. Pull the cover and inspect the spark advance springs on the rotor to make sure their not rusted and broke. Also insure you have good fuel flow from the tank to carb.
Timing check>>
Pull the CDI cover, pulse rotor and pulse base off so you can see the cam sprocket.
Line up the flywheel "T" mark in the inspection hole, (you have to peer in towards the inner motor to see the marks.)
The "O" mark on the cam sprocket should now be lined up on the mark on the valve cover @ 12:00, very important now to see the dowel pin on the cam shaft at the 11:00 position because this is what index's the pulse rotor. Now install the pulse base/generator and the pulse rotor. The lines should line up just before the generator/rotor pickup. Move the crank to "F" mark and the generator/pulse rotor lines should line up, if not adjust the generator slightly.

see page 73 in the manual
http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Im sure there is some vids on youtube.

[JustEnough]

Are you using the factory airbox in an unaltered condition?

Do you have a link to the ad for the latest japanese carb, to compare to stock original?

[Degoragon]

Are you using the factory airbox in an unaltered condition?

Do you have a link to the ad for the latest japanese carb, to compare to stock original?

Yeah, the airbox is factory and unaltered. New foam filter over the original mesh element. Lid has seal.

I just ordered an intake seal, a friend suggested an air leak.

www.amazon.com/Caltric-Carburetor-Fits-Honda-ATC200/dp/B007EEVLQM/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&keywords=honda atc 200 carburetor&qid=1437801317&ref_=mp_s_a_1_2&sr=8-2.

It was cheap, through Caltric, but it looks well made. "Jieliwang" is the brand. Japan is in bold. Interestingly, the carburetor jets were stamped "keihin". With the big " k" symbol in the middle. I tried the old jet "4 sizes up from the new one. " #98 from #94). Worked barely better than before.

[danbur55]

What needle positions have you tried?

[Jmoozy27]

What was the number on the slow jet, the skinny one next to the Main jet? It should be at least a #35.
#98 sounds like close to stock and should get you the results that you need. 2 turns or 4 half turns out on the mixture screw (the one on the bottom of the carb not the side) should get it where you need to be.

[atc007]

Make sure your springs in your advancer are free and working. You can still get XR200 springs from Honda. This will ensure your ignition is advancing. OHM your stator coils while you're waiting for your intake o ring. If it still persists, You might try another completely different carb. These china carbs,,,some are golden, some are nightmares...I would clean what you have with at least 150PSI of air, preferrably 170. Blow the heck out of EVERY hole,jets, air feeds,every hole. What does your plug say? After running at least 8 minutes or so?

[JustEnough]

From the worst review at Amazon, it looks like the gaskets might be suspect.

"the top float needle gasket expanded after the first day ...
ByRotkiveon February 18, 2015
the top float needle gasket expanded after the first day of use I have two atc200s' and decided to switch the carburetor to the other one then I found the gasket ring stretched so basically Its not sealing anything. but the carburetor is still working but will stall."

[JustEnough]

The stock carb for a 83 ATC200 is a PD85A. If the Amazon carb is an exact copy of that, the correct jets for your engine are 95 and 38 so if you have those from the old carb, you might give them a try.

Here is a good reference for stock carbs:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5019/5467500970_2fbfc676cd_b.jpg