*** 1984 honda 200es carb question ***

[bkvette3]

Hello all - help needed.

In regards to my '84 Honda 200es - can someone explain the needle jet and what happens when repositioning the e-clip in one of the 5 notches.

Here is what is happening. A while back I took apart the carb for routine maintenance and clean it. Not sure if previous owner ever had it serviced. Big Red was running fairly well. I noticed that the e-clip was installed on the top notch on the needle jet. As per the owner's manual - I reinstalled it in the 3rd notch. Altitude here is 1,895 feet. Main jet is #95. Fuel mixture pilot screw is 2 turns open from a fully closed position. Running NGK DR8ES-L plugs. Plug gapped at 0.028". Now I am fouling plugs like crazy. New plug will last for one ride and the next day it will not start. If I put in a new plug it starts instantly. Is the float not at the right height??? Was the e-clip set at the top notch of the needle jet to compensate for something??? Comments/opinions greatly appreciated. Thank - you.

[barnett468]

OK, your elevation is not high enough to require a significant change in jet sizes but its 30 years old so who knows what has been done.

Why did you change the needle?

If it ran fine before just change it back.

Connect a clear plastic hose to the carb drain . . turn the gas on . . hold the end of the hose even with the top of the carb . . open the drain sscrew . . the gas level should be even with the bottom of the carb body or around 1/8" below it.

If the gas level was not excessively high, you can try raising the clip to the top again, install one size smaller pilot and maybe one size smaller main and see how that goes . . if you are fouling plugs it is pretty rich or your spark is pretty weak.

Clean the heck out of your plug so the porcelain part is nearly white . . look at it after 20 minutes of riding.

[JustEnough]

Moving the needle clip to a lower notch raises the needle allowing more gas to be siphoned up from the bowl through the main jet, which richens the mixture at low throttle. You did not mention that the fouling was black soot from too rich of a mixture, but that is likely what you are seeing. Brushing a carbon fouled plug with an old toothbrush or brass brush should get it working again.

[bkvette3]

Just back in from the garage. Installed a fresh, brand new NGK DR8ES-L plug gapped @ 0.028". Trike has not been ran for over a month (since the last time I tried starting it and would not go). Did nothing but turn the key to "on" and bumped the start button. Started instantly on first crank. I will post a pic of the fouled plug. It looks like what JustEnough describe as black soot. With the new plug - I could go for a 15 min to 1/2 hour ride. Shut it off and then try restarting and it will not start. Plug will be fouled.

[bkvette3]

Here's a pic of the plug. Brand new with 15 - 30 mins of ride time. E-clip in the 3rd notch of needle jet. Trike will not restart with this plug after the short ride. Fouled.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1457_zps8z5ncqhq.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1457_zps8z5ncqhq.jpg.html)

[barnett468]

So it would only run for 20 minutes BEFORE changing the needle position?

Does it smoke out the tailpipe?

If so, what color is the smoke, light blue or dark ngray/black?

I can't see the plug well on my small screen but it looks like it is oil fouled or oil and gas fouled but it does not look like just gas fouling to me.

[barnett468]

Look at the gas color . . if it is yellow at all and the tank isn't rusty it is bad.

[bkvette3]

So it would only run for 20 minutes BEFORE changing the needle position?

Does it smoke out the tailpipe?

If so, what color is the smoke, light blue or dark ngray/black?

I can't see the plug well on my small screen but it looks like it is oil fouled or oil and gas fouled but it does not look like just gas fouling to me.



Hello - thanks for replying back.

No , after changing the e-clip back to the 3rd notch. Like the owner's manual indicates. Ran decent with no fouling when the e-clip was in the top notch.


I purchased this 200es about 1 1/2 years ago. It basically ran good with really no issues. Recently, I decided to service the carb (clean). That is when I noticed that the e-clip was at the top notch. After reading the owner's manual which indicated that at my attitude of 1,895 feet it should be in the 3rd notch. After I changed the e-clip to the 3 notch is when I started experiencing the fouling problem.

Never any smoke out of the tailpipe at idle or full throttle and then letting off the gas. Compression test of 148 psi - choke fully open and wide open throttle.

Running fresh, clean premium unleaded gas.

[barnett468]

OK, it is still way too rich and should be leaned out even more.

[barnett468]

The porcelain on the plug should be nearly white or lite tan if the gas is not old.

[bkvette3]

OK, it is still way too rich and should be leaned out even more.

Any suggestions??? Do I put the e-clip back to the top notch like it originally was (even if the manual says 3rd notch)??? Change the main jet???

[barnett468]

Any suggestions??? Do I put the e-clip back to the top notch like it originally was (even if the manual says 3rd notch)??? Change the main jet???

I posted all that info in post number 2 . . I am temporarily using a tablet instead of a phone so its time consuming to make long detailed posts.


If you don't currently have jets I would raise the clip to the top for now . . make sure the air cleaner is clean.

[bkvette3]

I posted all that info in post number 2 . . I am temporarily using a tablet instead of a phone so its time consuming to make long detailed posts.


If you don't currently have jets I would raise the clip to the top for now . . make sure the air cleaner is clean.


Thanks for the info - I will try your suggestions. Regards.

[barnett468]

Thanks for the info - I will try your suggestions. Regards.
Most xlnt . . keep us posted and post a photo of your plug after the. changes . . the good thing is that it runs decent so you are past the biggest hurdle.

[oscarmayer]

that plug looks like your burning oil.