85 200x shift shaft moves in and out of case

[chasemanmusic]

So i put the right case over on and am testing shifting through the gears and i found play in the shift shaft. Meaning i can push the shaft in towards the motor/right case and pull it back towards the left case. Probably not even a quarter inch of travel. I found when it's pushed in towards the right case, it doesnt want to grab the shift star attached to the drum, but when i pull it out towards the left case it catches and shifts properly.

I did some searching on here and found that maybe it's the shifter return spring? Maybe i over looked how this was installed? The manual doesnt really have good detail on how that spring is positioned.

Before i put the right case on i was testing the shifting mechanism and i do remember accidentally pushing the shift shaft in too far where it popped off the star gear on the shift drum. I simply slid it back in and it seemed fine but didnt consider that the spring position may have been messed up.

Any insight on if im on the right track here? Im annoyed i have to take the cover off and possibly remove clutch and oil pump. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Chase

[yaegerb]

Don't know specifically what would be causing it off the top of my head, but I can tell you that a properly seated shift shaft should only have 1/16th or less in and out play. Something is amiss with what you just assembled.

[barnett468]

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ok, i would simply take the cover off and look at the photo below in the link below and make sure all the parts are there.

there is a washer on both sides of the fork return spring.

on the outside of the fork, there is a spring, then a circlip that holds the spring on . . this spring puts tension on the little shift fork so it doesn't flop around.

if any of these parts re missing, it will not work properly.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200x-1985-usa_model7183/partslist/E++14.html#results
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[chasemanmusic]

I also noticed my shifter was not returning when shifting. So the return spring must be wrong. I tore it down to get access to the external shift mechanism. I examined the schematic you linked barnett468 and based on that there not washers on both sides of the return spring. According to the schematic there are washers on each side of the circlip. Either way all the parts were there.

Anyway the return spring was not in the right place. I think i have it set right now based on the wear marks on the inside of the case where it was rubbing. I spread the 2 arms of the spring and put the case nub in between them. Is that correct? It seems correct. Will this help the in and out play of the shaft?

As far as the other spring on the outside of the fork, that should make up for the in and out play of the shaft correct? Before i tore it down i double checked the play and it was more like 1/16th". Def less than 1/4". I wonder if i spread that spring a little more it will compensate for extra play and keep the shift fork engaged with the star gear regardless if the shaft is pushed in or not.

[barnett468]

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yes, you are correct on the washers . . the parts fish never lie but can be confusing to interpret sometimes.

the ends of the return fork are often crossed or closed up when removed from the stub on the case . . they need to be uncrossed or opened up by prying them apart and then slid over the stub just like you did this time . . lots of people including myself have done what you did . . you did an xlnt job.

there is supposed to be some in and out play and 1/16" is common as was mentioned.

[chasemanmusic]

I put it back together and still it seems like it doesn't want to catch completely when the shaft is pushed all the way in. It is returning to position now but it doesn't want to shift nice like when I pull it out.

Do you think when the motor is running it will behave correctly? I'm pretty depressed about this. Total show stopper. I checked my 185s and the shaft doesn't move much at all.

[chasemanmusic]

Maybe the side cover part that butts up Agains the shaft was worn down or damaged some how. I've never run this motor before. Got it off eBay 10 yrs ago lol

[chasemanmusic]

So I had an idea, tell me your thoughts. I'm thinking I'll cut a groove around the shift shaft where it comes out of the case w a hack saw. Then install a snap ring in the groove which would keep it from sliding.

[oscarmayer]

no.. there is a spring that sits on part of the case that allows the shifter to center. read the manual!!!!!!!!
there is a link to download it in my sign. don't modify anything unless you know what your doing. please don't take offence, but it sounds like your new and not familiar so read the manual or take it to someone who can help.

[chasemanmusic]

no offense taken. I have been going through both the manual you provide (thank you) and the clymer manual. The spring that sits on the case you are talking about is the return spring, right? Meaning it centers the shifter after shifting it up and down. That was out of place and has now been corrected.

As far as the shaft moving in and out of the case (left and right), the only thing keeping that in place seems to be the nub on the right case cover. It looks like it butts up against the end of the shift shaft to keep it from sliding into the case. Maybe that nub was busted or messed up at some point. I do see that at some point something failed in this motor and some carnage took place. Perhaps i get a different clutch cover.....

[danbur55]

Before you buy parts try posting some pics if you can some of these guys can spot the problem right away

[chasemanmusic]

Ok i will. I did have a new idea though. It was to put a spring in the nub on the right case cover that would push the shaft back to the left. Im working on getting a parts bottom end at the moment....

Pics will be coming.

Thanks again for all the support guys.

[barnett468]

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Maybe the side cover part that butts up Agains the shaft was worn down or damaged some how. I've never run this motor before. Got it off eBay 10 yrs ago lol

ok, this is an atc200x clutch cover

the "shifter" stop inside the clutch cover should look like the one below.

the end of the stop should be raised above that thin rib by around 1/8th - 3/16 of an inch.

if the stop is even with the rib, it is worn or broken etc and it will allow your shifter to travel farther inward toward the clutch cover than it should.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/TwEAAOSwF1dUNqzm/$_57.JPG


this is what the spring on the end of the shaft should look like . . it is held on by the circlip . . the spring is not supposed to be loose and there is not another spring that goes between the shaft and the case . . the stop/nub inside the clutch cover is the only thing limiting the in and out travel of the shifter.

when the shifter is all the way to the left side of the engine, the shift shaft fork engages the 5 very short pins on the shift wheel . . if you can push the shifter towards the case by only 3/16 of an inch, the forks will not longer engage the pins in which case it will not shift.

if the stop on the clutch cover looks undamaged, and you can NOT move the shifter in by 3/16 of an inch, then what you are experiencing is normal . . the bikes will never shift thru the gears if the engine is not running because the cogs on the one gear can not line up with the slots in the other gear.

to get it to shift thru the gears when not running, you can remove the spark plug then kick the engine over while you hold the shifter up until it pops into gear . . then release the shifter, kick it again and then hold the shifter up and keep kicking until pops into the next gear..

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/hEAAAMXQgwNSK2Aa/$T2eC16R,!zgFIc9V2HwTBSK2!ZzHJQ~~60_57.JPG?set_id= 880000500F

[barnett468]

Ok i will. I did have a new idea though. It was to put a spring in the nub on the right case cover that would push the shaft back to the left. Im working on getting a parts bottom end at the moment....

Pics will be coming.

Thanks again for all the support guys.

do not put a spring on the nub . . if the nub is too short, one fix is to simply buy a used cover from ebay etc . . there are several available.

https://www.google.com/search?q=atc200x+clutch+cover+ebay&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=atc200x+clutch+cover+ebay&tbm=shop

another is to make sure the end of the nub on the case is as flat as possible by filing it, then drill the end of the shift shaft around 5/16" deep with a 7/64 drill or a 35 number drill . . be very careful because those bits can break easily.

then buy a 4/32 screw 1/4" long and simply place it in the hole then install the cover and make the screws ringer tight.

check the shaft for end play . . grind the head of the screw down until there is just a hair of end play.

tighten the screws some more . . this will compress the gasket and reduce the end play.

if there is no end play, grind the screw and repeat the process until there is just a tiny bit of end play when the screws are tight.

if you want to be fancy, you can drill and tap it for a 6/32 set screw then simply thread it in until you have the proper clearance then glue it into place or loc tite it etc.

http://cdn3.volusion.com/vj539.howo6/v/vspfiles/photos/62000-2.jpg?1375357691

[oscarmayer]

show a photo of the side of the 200X on the clutch side with the clutch basket off. that is what he probably needs to see. the shifter seated and the basket removed.
i am starting to wonder if he did not properly align the shift drum with the drum advance teeth on the shift shaft. if he did not, it could have some play.

OP, in the photo of the shift shaft, the spring that has 2 ends, they go around the nub, and the nub sits into a slot on the case or more like a channel of sorts. think my previous description was not very ideal. the 2 metal claws fo around the shifter drum star end and are sued to tug it one way of another. if the shift drum is not properly seated and these are not properly connected to the sift drum (keep in mind you need to have everything in Neutral during assembly for easier assembly) it should hold up fine. page 8-13 in the manual shows kinda what I am referring too, but the photo sucks!
i wish i would have gotten a better photo for reference purposes. but it describes how the prices align and sit.

[chasemanmusic]

Thank you for the advice everyone. Ill be doing some measurements tonight. If there is an issue here, it's that nub. I now have the return spring correctly placed.

[chasemanmusic]

Ok i finally had some time to take pics. 217812217813217814217815

So in first pic it looks like that nub was sheared off from something failing in the motor. It's definitely not flat either. In the last 2 pics i put a piece of tape on the shaft when it was pushed all the way into the motor, then pulled the shaft out to see the amount of travel. The amount of play was the width of the stopper on my tape measure, which looks like 1/16th of an inch.

[barnett468]

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ok, the furst case photo looks like half the nub has an angle on it from wear or something . . the second photo it does not so the first photo shows the problem better . . the amount of play you gave is the max i would want to see but "should" not be enough to cause the fork to come off the pins.

i would simply put the shaft in all the way then pull it out the distance of the free play which looks like around 3/32" to me and see if the forks come off the pins . . then you will know exactly what is happening.

you can also put a 90 degree angle on the fork and shaft to see if it is bent poutward at all which is unlikely but its a 30 year old bike.

take a photo of it assembled etc.

[yaegerb]

That nub is normal (normal wear) and no its not sheared off. Something else is likely installed incorrectly if you are still having issues. So what is the problem? It still has a ton of play in the mechanism when you assemble?

[chasemanmusic]

Yea i dont know if there is a problem now. The whole reason i started this thread is because i was having a hard time shifting through the gears when the shaft was pushed all the way in. What i was doing for my test was manually turning the drive shaft as i was shifting to try to get all the way through the gears and back. It seemed like it wasnt catching the shift drum star when the shaft was pushed in. But now im wondering if the shifting difficulty was just because the motor isnt running and it's a pain to shift it through all the gears when it isnt. Im certain the shaft and shift plate is now assembled properly. Originally the return spring was wrong, but with your guys' help, it is correct now.

I think im going to move forward with the top end and if the shifting issue is present while running, i can try replacing the clutch cover, shaft, etc at that time.

[chasemanmusic]

So I finally was able to test drive the 200x today and sure enough I'm having issues. It doesn't want to shift into first unless I pull the shaft out to the left. At which point it will shift down into first and up through to 5 like normal and back down through to 2 and again will not want to go to 1 without pulling the shaft all the way out.

In neutral, when I lift up it will shift into second. I can then ride and shift up through the gears to 5 and back down to second, where I experience what I explained above.

If the shaft is pulled out to the left it shifts through all gears as it should.

At this point I'm thinking I buy a used clutch cover and try that. Or maybe the plate is bent like someone mentioned earlier in this thread. Or the screw idea would work too. I'm just worried I have the star gear mispositioned or something but I followed the manual and triple checked when I assembled.

[barnett468]

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you star gear is not in the wring position . . obviously if you prevent the shifter from moving to the left, it will work fine so as i mentioned earlier that is one option using the screw etc but something still isnt correct but i cant be anything major.

[yaegerb]

Make sure you have the thrust washer on the case side. Number 14 in the schematic below.

https://www.servicehonda.com/parts/lookup#/Honda/ATC200X_A_(85)_ALL-TERRAIN_VEHICLE_(ATV)%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_JH3TB052-FK400006_TO_JH3TB052-FK447345/GEARSHIFT_DRUM_%2b_GEARSHIFT_FORK/ATC200X-85-JPN-A/2Y14965DAE14965D14A

[chasemanmusic]

I have the thrust washer. My workaround until I get a case/try the screw thing is I put a hose clamp on the shift shaft to keep it from moving into the case. I know this is not a long term solution. But it will get me by for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YTZ drew]

I had a similar problem on a 200X I built a while ago. The "window" in the flat plate on the shift lever had worn, preventing it from fully rotating the shift star unless you pulled outward or gave it a really quick stab on the lever when already moving. I would bet that if you look, you'll see the window is bell-mouthed. Replace the shift shaft and I think you'll be all set.

[Kryten]

So I finally was able to test drive the 200x today and sure enough I'm having issues. It doesn't want to shift into first unless I pull the shaft out to the left. At which point it will shift down into first and up through to 5 like normal and back down through to 2 and again will not want to go to 1 without pulling the shaft all the way out.

In neutral, when I lift up it will shift into second. I can then ride and shift up through the gears to 5 and back down to second, where I experience what I explained above.

If the shaft is pulled out to the left it shifts through all gears as it should.

I had the exact same issue when assembling my '85 200X about 10 years ago. I was thorough when assembling, but never did determine why shifting into first was difficult unless the shaft was pulled away from the case. My solution was an external spring that forced the shaft out, basically install a spring over the shaft, then install the shift lever. I can take a picture if needed. It may not be correct, but everything still works fine to this day.