1984 honda 200x rebuild- brands stamped on all aftermarket parts?

[KevinJ97]

Well i just had a train of thoughts serge through my brain after a tablet to the face. The trike i got from my friends dad i have finally completed the bike after 8 months of hunting down the right parts. A 1984 200x. Man was it trashed! After 2 months i realized the engine was rebuilt because they used that liquid gasket sealant stuff. I started thinking if i took apart the engine and take a look at the parts that were used to rebuild the engine, is there a brand stamped on all the parts? After the tablet greeted my face i started thinking i want to build a performance trike. Hoping i can post a pic in a few mins of the finished bike. As of now the bike is running perfect but i am willing to throw a few hundred into this one. Just need ideas as to what to do to the engine but it will be a snail process build as funds leak in since bills and bills. Lol. I am thinking i will spend about $800 or even a grand in the end if those nerfs do get fabbed.:naughty: lets have some ideas pls. :)

[KevinJ97]

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Kevin_Joshua_Quiroz/embed/slideshow/Mobile%20Uploads"></iframe> the bike i got

[barnett468]

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That looks nice! since it has a high perf pipe, it obviously may have other high perf parts too so yeah, if you want more power than it currently has you will definitely need to find out what the carb, cam, and piston are at the very least . . below is just some general info for a moderate build . . other things like 28 to 30 mm carb and 12.0 compression piston and big cam would be for a more race oriented build but then you need race gas which is pricey.

The gears will most likely be Honda . . they often have a mark or letter of some sort on them . . the major parts that are often changed from Honda brand during rebuilds are clutches, pistons, rings, sometimes connecting rods and bearings, valves, valve springs and cams.

The piston and connecting rod should be able to be identified if you post the numbers that are on them . . the origin of the other parts can be a bit more difficult, however, I don’t really know how this info will help much other than maybe determining what compression piston you have because if the cylinder bore is good and you have a high compression piston, then it has already been upgraded t some type of performance one . . the other thing to determine is whether the cam is stock or not . . there are two primary cam mfg’s for those and of you find some numbers on it that people here cant identify then you can email those companies and ask them . . their names are web cams and megacycle cams . . another is, or was powroll.

As far as perf upgrades, the most common are DG exhaust pipe vut the one they currently sell does not have a spark arrestor but they may have a spark arrestor that will adapt to it . . you need one for many of the ohv parks . . contact the parks and DG for info . . The first one below comes with the head pipe, they just don’t show it.

http://www.dgperformance.com/dg-performance-models2.php?category=Honda&model=ATC%20200X&appYear=1984&prodType=Exhaust


CARBURETOR

Others might have a better idea here but basically, the stock carb bore is 24 mm and one that is 2 – 3 mm bigger than stock will help, especially if you put a pipe and higher revving cam in it etc . . One option is to use a carb with an accelerator pump but no one here has quite figured out which one to use and what cables to use etc . . There are also lots of Chinese Keihins on ebay for around $35.00 but the air box boot may not fit . . Others here should know . . You can also run a 1983 or earlier XR200 carb which I think is a direct fit and it is 26 mm . . The 2002 and newer models may still be available new . . Irregardless, you may need to hog the inside of your stock boot out if you use it unless you use a round bore carb and the exit hole in the carb is the same size or smaller than the hole in the boot or unless you use an oval bore carb and the exit hole in the carb is no more than 2 mm bigger than the hole in the boot.

http://www.dgperformance.com/motorcycle-exhaust.php?pyID=40

if you use a Honda xr carb, you can use a 1980 thru 1984 XR200 intake boot . . you can also use an XR200R intake boot but this puts the carb at a different angle so you need to make an airt boot from the air box to the carb.

This looks like the correct XR200 intake to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-XR200-XR-200-5060-Intake-Manifold-/361307993734



CAM

This depends on your compression and your goal . . in general, the bigger the cam is, the less bottom end you will have but the more top end you will have . . they basically just move the entire rpm range up . . to compensate for the loss of bottom end you can simply install numerically higher final drive gear ratio . . this is done by using a smaller front or bigger rear sprocket . . a 4 tooth change on the rear sprocket equals around a 1 tooth change on the front sprocket . . the stock xr200 motorcycle cam is a common mild to moderate upgrade . . check with the cam mfgs below for others . . keep in mind it is incredibly easy to get a cam that is too big for your app.

http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html

http://www.megacyclecams.com/


HIGH COMPRESSION PISTON

These will give you a little more power everywhere and are a must if you run a bigger cam, but you will definitely need to run premium gas at the very least . . some places make a 10.0 compression piston also . . the place below makes a 10.25.

http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx


IGNITION TIMING

This is the most commonly overlooked area and its one where you can gain power and throttle response . . The book says your timing is 5 degrees btdc at idle of around 1400 rpm and 30 degrees btdc at 3150 rpm . . I would advance it 5 degrees, reset the idle speed and see if it runs better . . if it does and does not ping under acceleration, it is good.


One good combo for a noticeable increase in power for premium gas is:

Wiseco 10.25 piston

27 mm DG carb

DG exhaust pipe

WEB CAM p/n 340b or 389a . . the 340b will have more bottom end power but if you like rpm’s then get the 389a and try I tooth smaller on your front sprocket.

IGNITION TIMING – advance it 5 degrees

The above set up with the 340b cam and smaller sprocket will very strong.
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[KevinJ97]

That carb i through on there myself to get the bike running its a ebay mikuni i cant remember bore size though i believe 24. And i have found afew of these parts a bit cheaper.is the supertrapp not a good enough pipe to run? I believe its a 1/4 incher bigger diameter than the stock pipe i would have thought it was perfect but whatever works best. I wanted to keep that pipe though since this bike is supposed to be chrome and blue lol. Is it restrictive to any power gains?
What is the dg carb kit ive always wondered since theres no image.

This bike wont be used for racing that i know of right now since im so far from the parks. Its gonna be more of a thrilling trail rider that comes arou d the bend sideways lol.

And i plan to do this all mostly on my own so maching the head is out of the question since i dont have access to a shop.

So far all parts i have found that i think would work is a wiseco 10.25 comp vesrah crank shaft d.i.d. cam chain and maybe use oem cam gears and then kibble white spring set seals and guides there are kibblewhite valves i seen too which cost a pretty penny ×5 . i also seen some k&l valves are those any good to jse in place of the kibblewhite?

I mean i know i could do my build with bronco atv parts and shindy parts but i feel these would give way or break or just melt away.

And for the cam.... That spreadsheet confuses me lol. Is the new cam 161 or do you send in yours for the rebuild for web cam inc.
Oh me and ignition timing are like the best kf friends now lol.
I beleive with a top rebuild a clutch kit would be needed?
Thanks by the way barnett oh and by the way check out the blueing on the pipe lol i did that on accident.

[barnett468]

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no prob, you're welcome.


why do you want a vesrah crank assembly?

if your pretty happy with the way it runs then keep that pipe but it looks like crap because half is chrome and half is burnt . . for the cost of re-chroming it, you could have a better overall pipe from dg . . it will have a broader power band . . sell yours on ebay for $75.00 . . you can also buy high temp chrome paint and spray that on the toasted part . . it wont look horrible . . chrome can get rusty fast so you can also buy the cheap fg pipe and send it out to get high temp aluminized like chrome.

http://www.dgperformance.com/images/26-xxxx-1_400px.jpg

shindy parts are number 1 oem quality . . they are made in japan and their pistons are made by an oem piston mfg ART.

call dg for info on the carb . . i do noit know what it includes but it may just be the carb

you only need to machine the head if your valves leak or you use a huge cam.

the web cams are modified stock cams . . send yours in with $161.00 and they will send you one that is already finished or pay the $30.00 core charge and keep yours.

you only need a new clutch if yours starts slipping . . it may have a high perf clutch in it now . . it may also have high perf springs but we would need the spring length and clutch disc thicknesses to try and determine if it is stock or not . . high perf springs are a pita if you pull the clutch in often . . you can also preload your springs around .040" if they are stock

[oscarmayer]

first off, $800 will get you some "basic" stuff. you can get a wiseco piston, complete gasket and oil seal kits from Athena or Cometic, get clutch plates, get a valve job with new valves and bore/honing for new piston. You may squeeze in a new sprocket and chain set. If your really lucky, you can get a 26-28mm Mikuni carb off ebay as well.
good luck.

[KevinJ97]

I was just thinking the crank would need to be replaced along with the piston. Is vesrah not that good?

I know lol. It is burnt i thought i could polish it out but maybe not.

Alright so shindy is good ok.

Im only going for a mid performance cam so that wont be needed if the valves dont leak.

Ill give dg a call when possible. And thanks for helping me understand that. Lol it sounds cheaper now that someone explains it to me. :lol:

Oh and the clutch feels real tight now that i think of it lol. My other bike has a softer clutch so i might still buy the kit.

[KevinJ97]

first off, $800 will get you some "basic" stuff. you can get a wiseco piston, complete gasket and oil seal kits from Athena or Cometic, get clutch plates, get a valve job with new valves and bore/honing for new piston. You may squeeze in a new sprocket and chain set. If your really lucky, you can get a 26-28mm Mikuni carb off ebay as well.
good luck.

Sorry i meant to say that ill spend 800 or a grand on parts only. If i do want to pay for machining ill pay what it take so up to a 1500 or so to the build ill spend.

[KevinJ97]

first off, $800 will get you some "basic" stuff. you can get a wiseco piston, complete gasket and oil seal kits from Athena or Cometic, get clutch plates, get a valve job with new valves and bore/honing for new piston. You may squeeze in a new sprocket and chain set. If your really lucky, you can get a 26-28mm Mikuni carb off ebay as well.
good luck.

So far for 700 or so and a shipping cost can get me a pipe, cam, valve kit, engine gasket kit, piston kit and a cam chain. But i could spend differently if i do decide to have my head and jug machined. I could spend about 100 more for the right parts. I

I already have a mikuni i just checkedit.it is a 25.14 would that work with a rejet or should i still go bigger?

[barnett468]

I was just thinking the crank would need to be replaced along with the piston. Is vesrah not that good?

I know lol. It is burnt i thought i could polish it out but maybe not.

Alright so shindy is good ok.

Im only going for a mid performance cam so that wont be needed if the valves dont leak.

Ill give dg a call when possible. And thanks for helping me understand that. Lol it sounds cheaper now that someone explains it to me. :lol:

Oh and the clutch feels real tight now that i think of it lol. My other bike has a softer clutch so i might still buy the kit.

ok, i really dont know what to suggest . . most people only replace broken or obviously bad parts . . it sounds to me like you want to replace parts that have no obvious sign of being bad like the crank and the clutch so all i can think of to say that is vesrah does not list a crank assy . . they only list a connecting rod kit.

it is owned by a japanese person, and the way they advertise, they try to make it sound like their parts are japanese made which i know not all of them are . . this does not mean they aren't good though but i prefer japanese made parts if i have a choice . . my guess is that their rod kit is as decent as most others but there are others to choose from if you only need a rod kit . . the main bearings can be bought separately . . i would only use japanese bearings.

for mid performance, i would use the 340b cam unless somebody has a better idea.

for the pipe, you can try the one you have first . . if you want more bottom end then get the dg.

as far as the higher compression piston goes, you must have your bore professionally measured for taper and out of round . . if it is out by around .015 inches in either direction, you should have it bored out to the next bigger size.

i have no idea what you mean by tight clutch . . is it hard to pull in? . . if so then it probably has high perf plates and springs in it already.

also, find out if your cam and piston are stock or not before you buy other ones.

[KevinJ97]

I meant connecting rod lol. The heat is making me think differently.

I compaired the cams from megacycle to webcam man there is a differnce there lol. For megacycle i would have to call and request for prices right?

Thats a good idea to have it checked and possibly bored out. Ill make it my top priority.

My first dissasembly will be in these two days or a week to check whats going on with my kicker gears.

As i have said i have 2 200x both are 1984. I have nicknamed the one in this blog as brittany. The other i named V. I.. The kickers are very different in aspect of how far the move and with how much needed force. V. I. Has no trouble starting 1 or 2 kicks and the kicker goes far below the crank cases and never slips. I thought it had a kicker gear upgrade which honda had kits for but it doesnt have the stamp so no clue there. Brittany on the other hand takes multiple tries to start the bike as the kicks tends to slip or not be in place for a start. Luckily i havent took her for a real ride to get stranded. Her kicker stops at foot peg height. Any ideas there. This still relates to my thread if someone says it doesnt, as i would like to know if the kicker in V. I. Is aftermarket part if it is stamped or not.

Thanks again barnett and oscarmayer. :)

[oscarmayer]

that depends on the piston, compression, cam, and mods you have such as carb and are you running stock airbox or bolt on filter to carb setup? best thing is to leave it where it is at and build it and see what happens. use the plug to tune from there. start off by first tuning the start up (after you broke it in gently and not ridden it hardly just a basic ruin through to seat the rings).
once you get to that point and have tuned it for idle then from there you can go to mid with needle and mixture screw, and finally top end rest of the throttle with main jet sizing.

[KevinJ97]

Well I run an air box so I won't suck up any water or dirt.

I was planning on taking it real slow to build so not much will be changed out at once so I'll do the piston and cam then go to carb then exhaust.

And right I have read that to not go any further than half throttle or so to not warp the rings or something when still in the break in period.
And thanks again.:) this will help me out

[barnett468]

And right I have read that to not go any further than half throttle or so to not warp the rings or something when still in the break in period.
And thanks again.:) this will help me out

one thing i can suggest is to use regular oil [not synthetic] for break in . . i sometimes use joe gibbs break in oil . . royal purple also has one but i prefer the gibbs.

after break in, i would switch to a high quality group IV or V full synthetic.
.

[KevinJ97]

Haha thanks I've been meaning to ask about oil. :lol:

Thanks for the tip.

[KevinJ97]

You can't tell from the pic but the rear suspension is a swap out for a showa G9702-00. Not sure what it came off of but it was a close enough fit. Close meaning I drilled out the bottom mount holes and filed the top on the sides by 2mm. Felt like I was stepping onto a bag of jet puffed at first then I adjusted the preload and it feels better like a bag of grapes now though. Lol. but I May go with a different spring rate. The shock is near new and works great maybe the preload can still be adjusted to my liking.
The rear brake master is also a drilled to fit part. It was a 600cbr Chinese brake master. Man these parts were cheap.:lol:

[KevinJ97]

Oh and I fixed my kick starter problem. Turns out the dumb son of a gun before me took of the kicker gear cover and put the gears back 2 teeth off to the correct setting giving hard starting and limiting the kick distance.

[barnett468]

Haha thanks I've been meaning to ask about oil. :lol:

Thanks for the tip.

No prob, you're welcome.

the reason its better to use non synthetic for break in is that depending on what synthetic is used, it can increase the time it takes for the rings to break in and sometimes even prevent them from breaking completely.

[KevinJ97]

Oh right that makes sense. After how many hours should I drain that oil?

[barnett468]

Oh right that makes sense. After how many hours should I drain that oil?

6 to 10 hours

[barnett468]

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i would use this one below . . if i was just doing the rings, i would use this or a regular oil with high levels of ZDDP like some brands of valvoline and brad penn etc.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/br40-break-in-10w-61html/


http://www.drivenracingoil.com/media/catalog/product/cache/17/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/3/03706.jpg

[KevinJ97]

Whats the difference between the round slide and flat slide carbs? I am leaning more towards a 28mm flatslide Mikuni from ebay. Just wondering if it is better or easier to have in any way. Do they adjust in the same way or way different? Different power gains?

[barnett468]

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i would run the flat slide over the round slide . . they can provide a little better throttle response, however, if it were me, i would try an xr200 carb or similar, especially if you have some performance parts like a high compression piston and exhaust pipe etc because they have an accelerator pump, and when properly set up, in many cases a carb with an accel pump will work better than one without one.

[KevinJ97]

Which xr carb has an acccelerator pump i may want to run it.:)

[barnett468]

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CARBURETOR

There are also lots of Chinese Keihins on ebay for around $35.00 but the air box boot may not fit . . Others here should know . . The XR carb is 1983 or earlier XR200 which I think is a direct fit and it is 26 mm . . The 2002 and newer models may still be available new and will also work . . Irregardless, you may need to hog the inside of your stock boot out if you use it unless you use a round bore carb and the exit hole in the carb is the same size or smaller than the hole in the boot or unless you use an oval bore carb and the exit hole in the carb is no more than 2 mm bigger than the hole in the boot.

If you use a Honda XR carb, you can use a 1980 thru 1984 XR200 carburetor adapter . . You can also use an XR200R carb adapter but this puts the carb at a different angle so you need to make an air boot from the air box to the carb.

This looks like the correct XR200 intake to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-XR200-XR-200-5060-Intake-Manifold-/361307993734


DG Performance also sells a carb for it but I have never seen this kit.

http://www.dgperformance.com/motorcycle-exhaust.php?pyID=40

[KevinJ97]

Well i did a quick google search and a fellow member deathman53 actually ran the dg 27pd carb and he said in a thread that it is a 27mm. Didnt say anymore or showit. Seems a bit pricey though so ill more of likely go with the xr carb or the flatslide 28mm

[KevinJ97]

Btw about how much does it cost to bore and hone a cylinder?

[barnett468]

Btw about how much does it cost to bore and hone a cylinder?

it varies by location . . it is around $75.00 where i live.

[KevinJ97]

Since im too lazy to find a shop to go to, i am going to get a cylinder kit thats on ebay from cayden cycle. The price seems reasonable for the kits they have 225 to 275. But some of the kits have really small cooling fins. I wonder if that would cause any problems if i were to run it on my x. You can see it if you search ebay "xr200 cylinder kit" i still have to learn how to attach links. Lol.

[barnett468]

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at the top of your computer screen is a 1/4" high white box that is very long . . the address of the site you are viewing is in that box.

put the cursor in the box and left click . . the box will turn blue.

right click and a small box will appear . . move the cursor down until the word "copy" lites up then left click.

when you get back to the 3ww box you are typing in, put the cursor in the box where you want it then right click and a box will appear.

put the cursor on "paste" then right or left click and the address will appear in the box.

[barnett468]

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get a cylinder that has the same size fins as yours that is only bored .050" or .020 mm over but i would get your bored.

[KevinJ97]

Your probably right i should stick to stock part and bore that. If the cylinder is in anyway bad condition i stick to same size fins and close to stock bore.