Tecate CDI Recreation - For Sale

[RubberSalt]

After replacing every single component in my ignition system, I've come to the conclusion that both of my CDI's are duds. These are the only parts that are not brand new. Everything is extra clean (wire brushed all contact points for clean grounds). I've ran dedicated ground wires from the stator to the coil to the frame. to the engine. The only thing i get is an ultra weak spark. Almost not visible unless it's in the shade.

I've been researching CDI's and CDI schematics. So far, these should be very easy to recreate.. Under 1 condition. You can disassemble these without destroying them. Kawasaki encased these in a very hard resin. It'll soften up when heated, but get extra hard again once it cools.

I've torn 1 of mine apart to review and analyse it. It's similar to the schematics for other AC-CDI's. These are AC charged and triggered CDI's.

I've ordered parts to make and experiment with AC-CDI's. Parts are cheap :)

I'd like to ask for you guys to tear down your dead Tecate CDI's or send them to me to tear them down. If we can get a schematic of them, we can rebuild them.

What I've found in my CDI so far(may be more):
3 film based capacitors. 3 different sizes. - destroyed markings while disassembling.
1 transistor
2 diodes
1 zener diode
1 resistor
1 SCR made by NEC - cant read model

[petesatc]

i make capacitors for a living....can you post pics of them i maybe able to work out what they are....if you have a weak spark its a very good chance its the caps...

[RubberSalt]

Negative. They have been destroyed taking this resin off. Before I figured out heat, i was breaking chunks off. It took the casing of the caps with it. Leaving just the film insides. The only 1 i was able to see thesideof was the biggested. IT looked like this. http://www.mojotone.com/Orange-Drops-thumb.png. unfortunately, the orange coating broke off. It left a blue inner coating on the inside of if.

[nd4speed]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261762847770?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I dare you to find and try one of these. Would be great to know if it worked,

this 1986 KX125 CDI looks to have a nearly identical wiring layout as the Tecate. Now a CDI is just a capacitor to hold charge until it is triggered to discharge. I suck with electrical stuff and wonder what on the T3 is the trigger coil? If the trigger coil is part of the stator plate and flywheel the then CDI has nothing to do with timing the spark. And if that is the case a 1986 KX125 CDI may work. Another question is there a difference in output in Joules or millijoules or whatever it would be.

The wire colors and connectors look to be the same 1984-1986 KX125 #21119-1195
I am comparing the pictures to a 21119-1074 I have in front of me.

NOS: $199


Here's some great CDI info:
http://www.jr-richscooterdoc.com/Hel..._explained.pdf

THE MORE I READ THE MORE THIS SOUNDS LIKE A BAD IDEA BECAUSE THE CDI CIRCUITS CONTROL THE SPARK CURVE BUT NOT TIMING?
I am confused and wish I knew more, but this is probably why the part numbers are different.

[RubberSalt]

The trigger coil is the small coil above the source coil. Its placement and lower voltage output is about the only thing to do with timing.

The source coil send high voltage and stores it in a cap, typically 1uf to 1.5uf. The trigger coil activates an SCR thyristor which let's the cap dump its stored power into the ignition coil.

The time it takes to store the power in the 1uf cap can determine top end ignition timing. There's another cap that helps determine the lower rpm timing.

Most ac-cdi's will probably interchange.

In the case of the tecate,you could use the source coil as a trigger coil. The downfall is it's harder to control the voltage. The source coil on some machines can push 300+ volts. The trigger will push 5-12 volts.

Based on this theory, I should be able to use a yt175, or a blaster cdi.

[Maico]

The CDI box is the only part in the equation that is suspect. Plenty of new stators, flywheels and coils out there....just no new CDI boxes.

That would be awesome if you could reproduce these.

[petesatc]

1uf to 1.5uf seems a lot @300V i very much doubt you could get a 1uf in the cdi box if it is a plastic film cap?? has anyone got a broken down cdi?? i have a X-ray machine in work just for this problem....

[RubberSalt]

My first CDI - i should have taken pictures... Had a 3 film caps. 1 just as big as the one in the 2nd CDI. Had a transistor, a scr - unreadable, numorus resistors and diodes. a zener diode.

I got my 2nd CDI apart. It had KX 125 and KX250 written on the back of it. I took tons of pics as it came apart.

The biggest cap was orange. I wasn't able to locate any writing on it :( It was huge in comparison to everything.

Heres some pics of this CDI!

214942 214943 214944 214945 214946 214947 214948 214949

Parts i have found so far on this CDI:
SCR f2r5g - 4 Amps at 400V
SCR for2b - 100V .08 amps (nte5402 equivalent)
4 film caps - Massive red, 31mm x 10mm x 20mm , Medium green (under orange), 2 small green.
Multiple resistors, 7+
Multiple diodes, 4+
1 zener Diode

[petesatc]

yep your right it is pretty big..its a plastic metallized cap.......i'm going to open a honda CDI when i get home see what the value of caps are in there.....i know not the same but will give me a idea

[RubberSalt]

John is going to send me another CDI to dis discombobulate.

Tomorrow, I'll make a rough schematic for this and try to fill in the blanks.

[petesatc]

John is going to send me another CDI to dis discombobulate.

Tomorrow, I'll make a rough schematic for this and try to fill in the blanks.
cool that would be good...

[Maico]

John is going to send me another CDI to dis discombobulate.

Tomorrow, I'll make a rough schematic for this and try to fill in the blanks.

I'd more than happy to test drive a prototype cdi box when you get one built.

[nd4speed]

here's one -1195 from a 1986 kx125 for $27:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-kx125-CDI-box-/261862747741?hash=item3cf83c6e5d&vxp=mtr

NOS $199
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-GENUINE-KAWASAKI-CDI-IGNITOR-KX125-KX-125-1984-1986-/121161328592?hash=item1c35c727d0&vxp=mtr

[nd4speed]

i think i think the one you tore apart was a -1010
215003
NOS $199 1974-81 KX125
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-KAWASAKI-KX-125-KX125-KX250-CDI-IGNITION-UNIT-MADE-IN-JAPAN-21119-1010-/221666938730?fits=Model%3AKX125&hash=item339c610f6a&vxp=mtr

[RubberSalt]

I think your right. I ran to the local electronic store and grabbed a couple of part. I'm going to take a stab at a prototype tonight or tomorrow night.
Mail is to slow lol.

[jeswinehart]

I can recommend some easy to use encapsulation resins when you're ready :)

[YTZ drew]

Check these links out- I found them a while back when researching CDI box schematics. They both are for KDX cdi's but would surely get you in the ballpark.

http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/CDI.html

http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/KDXCDI.html

[RubberSalt]

Already read through all of his stuff. Looks like good work, and it definitely points you in the right direction.

I also agree with Jeswinehart. Encapsulation resin. Kawasaki didn't do this just to be mean, they did this to keep any and all things out of the cdi. Moisture mostly. A few hundred volts and you add some rain water...:)

You can bake a CDI in an oven at 200 degrees for 10 minutes if you think moisture may be in it. From my reading, this method may work.

I'm starting on a schematic now.

[phantomtracer]

Wow, those are great links.
I need to read that about 10 times before I will ever understand it, but great info.

[Billy Golightly]

This is one thing (Much like expansion chambers) that has always sort of been a black arts type knowledge, so I find this discussion and research you guys are all doing veeeerrry interesting :)

[RubberSalt]

I've got most of the schematic drawn up for that kx125/250 cdi I took apart. I don't know the cap values. The scr is to old to find a data sheet on so I can't confirm the pin out. I'll be analyzing it more this evening. It should follow the pattern as to what pin is what.


On a side note. I laid out components to build an ac-cdi. Tonight I'm soldering them together for a test:)

[wonderboy]

What is the SCR part number? I saw in a previous post two you mentioned: F2R5G and F0R2B. Was it one of those you are looking for?

[RubberSalt]

F2R5G. I found the other. The F2R5G is the main 1.

[Tecate250]

So i use to use a tecate 4 stator. And it only has 2 coils. not 3. Would this be a better setup useing less wires?

[RubberSalt]

The goal is to recreate the cdi.

If the tecate 4 has 2 coils.. That means the kdx schematic I found should work.

To clearify* I haven't seen a tecate 4 stator. Is it just a single coil on the stator, no trigger/pickup coils?

[tecaterob]

Man I wish I can help but I SUCK WITH ELECTRICAL....

[oscarmayer]

you just gave me a headache guys. tanks :P
LOL

[RubberSalt]

I got the cdi built, but untested. I forgot which wire goes to the high voltage, which to the signal and which to ground on the stator lol.

Its been a busy weekend, I'll be checking it against my spare stator tomorrow, solder the wires in place and then test it.

I got the CDI from John. I confirmed the part number. Its an 84-85 cdi... Now to pull it apart without running the components. Ongoing to test more solvents. Maybe PVC solvent?

[RubberSalt]

I performed a couple of test last night. One had expected results. The other was a good sign.

Kx80 cdi from 79-80 gave a really nice hot spark. Everything plugged right in except the coil. The kx80 has a round end on the coil wire while the tecate has the flat. Other than that, awesome. I didn't test run it do to the lack of a sun.

My home made, dt125 replica gave me the odd results. Its kind of what I expected. I was able to get a good hot spark.. Twice.

With the engine cranking, it's not producing/storing enough voltage to create a spark before being discharged. With the tecate having 4 magnets passing that trigger coil every rpm, we can assume that it will have 4 sparks per rev unless controlled.

With the home made cdi version 1.0, it was discharging the cap with a low voltage. By disconnecting the trigger coil from the cdi, it would charge the cap. Reconnecting it and cranking the engine over allowed it to fire.

The issue here is it is either firing to frequently, or not creating enough juice. This can be remedied with more windings on the source coil... But I want a plug and play solution to replace the OEM Cdi.

Tonight, I'm going to start disassembly of the CDI donated by john. It'll take a long time, but I'm not rushing it.

[Maico]

The CDI that is headed your way is an '86 CDI. OEM part# 21119-1074.

Just so we're all on the same page...the '84 and the '86 carry the same CDI part #. The '85 is different. OEM # 21119-1166. What's the difference?
I ain't got a flippin' clue.

Let me know when it arrives.

Rog'

[RubberSalt]

Interesting, I thought the 85 would have been the same! The CDI John provided is also a 21119-1074. Looks like this is going to be the one to model. I'm really glad I'll have 2 of the same units to dissect. It'll be more of a guarantee when they come apart.

The 85 probably has different caps/resistors to adjust the timing curve. I found a thread on an adjustable CDI.

[RubberSalt]

One of the problems that I fear.. I won't be able to read the labels on the capacitors.

So I ordered a capacitor tester that measures actual capacitance. Problem solved.

[RubberSalt]

I had one of those ideas again. Something john may know the answer to.

Before I ask the question, I'll explain why I'm asking.

The home made cdi only fired after disconnecting the trigger coil and cranking the engine to charge the cap. The homemade cdi also uses a diode on the pickup wire. The current induced by the magnetic pole of the magnets will determine which way the electronics flow. If you have 4 magnets all south poles facing the stator, you would technically have a pulsed DC signal.

If you have 4 magnets, 3 of them have south poles facing the stator, and the last with a North pole, then you would have 3 pulses one way, and 1 pulse the other. A opposite signal that could trip the trigger coil.

The question is, are all the magnets the same or is 1 different.

Logic says the same.


My next theory is the cap is only receive half the power. Looking at the schematic I used, it blocks half of the power used to charge the cap. A bridge will fix this. It'll convert all electricity to flow in 1 direction. This will hurt voltage a hair, but double the caps electrical storage.

I'm still trying to think of the best method for tearing apart these CDIs

[RubberSalt]

I haven't had much time with this lately, my uncle passed away Tuesday. But I wanted to update this with a couple of picks of John's CDI. If anyone has any ideas how to get the black stuff off with out completely destroying the PCB, I'm all ears.

Its very hard and very brittle. When heated, it gets kind of rubber, when it cools back down it gets very hard again.

215496 215497215498

[jeswinehart]

The Tecate flywheels have 2 north and 2 south poles. Each north pole has a north pole directly across from the other north pole.
Same with the south poled magnets, 1 directly across from the other one.
I believe it was Pete that sent me a link on how to remove the Rev limiter connection inside a cdi. In the link it showed in detail how the fellow dealt with the encapsulation material but I don't recall nor did I do it.
I imagine heat is going to be your only option. Perhaps keep a hand torch lit and exact knife heated often with gentle cuts imo.

[RubberSalt]

215503
My lunch break.

[jeswinehart]

I think I have a picture stored in this phone.

[just ben]

whats the plan for a case after you figure the board?

[RubberSalt]

Not sure yet. Plastic is cheap and typically sturdy. Works for other oem. If I could find an inexpensive quality metal case, that would be nice.

I'm honestly concerned about the connectors and quality wire. I want to find OEM equivalent wire for this and my stators I wind. Trying to find connectors to fit OEM is going to be tricky too.

Eventually I'll have a 3d printer... Damned kicker starter is slooooow lol.

[jeswinehart]

http://www.vintageconnections.com/
http://cycleterminal.com/

To encapsulate your part use this stuff available thru hobby lobby or order direct. Very easy to use. http://www.alumilite.com/store/p/934-Alumilite-White-Amazing-Casting-Resin.aspx

PM me when you get to that point so I can call you on how to make a mold box for your part.

[just ben]

Not sure yet. Plastic is cheap and typically sturdy. Works for other oem. If I could find an inexpensive quality metal case, that would be nice.

I'm honestly concerned about the connectors and quality wire. I want to find OEM equivalent wire for this and my stators I wind. Trying to find connectors to fit OEM is going to be tricky too.

Eventually I'll have a 3d printer... Damned kicker starter is slooooow lol.the connectors are easy, parts unlimited sells them. I'm pretty sure they have the right one,if not they are just bullet connector stuff into rubber. mold the rubber part and buy the connectors.

[RubberSalt]

That's plan b if I cant find them. Ricky stator used junk bullet connectors and a crappy fitting. It all slid around. If I mold them, I'm gluing the connectors into the rubber lol

After this episode of House, I'm going to work more on dissecting it.

The PCB looks like the first 1 I pulled apart.

*Edit - My capacitor meter came in today. I've been playing with recycled caps I've pulled off components. Found a bad 1 >.<

[RubberSalt]

The big cap is 1uf :)
medium say ?2?473 partial reading. measured at 49.3 nf
The smallest cap read at 106nf. This could be a false reading though. The leads broke off the cap as it came out. I used safety pins to make contact back to were they are supposed to go. This cap is 1/2 the size of the medium one.

SCR is nec 3s4m.
Small SCR said p115.
6 Resistors. 120, 20, 20, 3M, 47, 97
Diodes. 303t?
Zener diode. 1 - Broke in half, no reading.
Caps. 1uf, 49nf, 100nf

[fieldy]

How about using the famous Altoid's box for the inexpensive case. There are all of people that appreciate what you are doing and you will get it figured out no matter what! Where are the 1980's Japanese engineers to chime in?

[RubberSalt]

Send out CDI's with a bag of complimentary mints? lol

[RubberSalt]

215583215584215585215586215587

[RubberSalt]

I've got a good deal of the schematic together. Im almost at a stand still. I've been trying to find a replacement part for the p115 transistor. The other part slowing me down is the zener diode. The one i have on it broke in half while disassembly.

Ive found specs for a p115 thyristor. It didn't contain pictures andi think its for a different part number.

I may build a prototype on my breadboard and try a bt151-500r scr in its place. Its a lot bigger, but if it works..

[big specht]

A lot of that sounded like charle Browns teacher wah,wah,Wah,wah. But keep up the good work it sounds like you are getting somewhere

[RubberSalt]

I just placed an order for all the caps and some parts to test out as replacements for the p115 SCR.
3-7 days until the parts are at my door :)

Looking for Diodes. 1N4007 are the recommended, 1k volts at 1amp... But stock is a part number I cant find. It's much bigger than my 1n4007 diodes. hmmm.. Dang old part numbers!

[SUPERBEAST]

have you looked on digikey?

[RubberSalt]

No dice with digikey, on the p115.

[wonderboy]

Hey RubberSalt,

How about this: 215729

There are some pictures in this datasheet. No idea if you can still locate this part, but I think you can get the specs from the attachment. Let me know if this is it (just curious).

EDIT: ok, so I looked more closely at the pics and I don't think this is the same part... but that seems weird because functionally, it seems like this is the right thing. Hmmm...

[RubberSalt]

I came across that to. The specs are really high for the amperage. Its a lot bigger too.

I ordered some transistors equivalent to the for2b used in the kx cdi. My theory is that these are similar parts. They are only 5 years apart.

[RubberSalt]

Things have finally slowed down enough that I could get back to staring at this thing for an hour. I've got most of the schematic done, now just to input values. There's another CDI in the mail that has been donated for R&D. Anyways, heres what I have so far.

For any electrical engineers, this makes sense to me at least! lol

[RubberSalt]

A couple of mistakes of the first drawing have been made, Resistance values updated.


I did notice that the R4 (Color code looked like 47 ohms) resistor measured 28 on my meter. Either I've got a bad meter(which I tested to a known good 47 and it passed), I read the color wrong, or it was bad.
I still have the first CDI, and I never pulled that resistor. I just measured it at 29... I think I read the color wrong. R4 should be something like 28 ohms?

[RubberSalt]

Tonight I'm going to assemble a set up on my breadboard. I'll be sure to get a video of it running off it :-p

Gives me ideas. Maybe I could build a cdi that also has a separate circuit for voltage regulator/DC rectifier?

[RubberSalt]

215972

I just need to add some ends to it and the test it out :)

[RubberSalt]

I wanted to say thanks to Maico. He's provided another 21119-1074 CDI for R&D.

From my schematic, I can get readings without pulling it completely apart. For example, the 1UF capacitor is between the G/W and the Black/W wires.

I'm receiving a 2.2uF reading on it. I received this for a moment on the other, but assumed it was a mistake on my meter. I believe another change may need to be made to the schematic.

[RubberSalt]

No spark :( Time to review the schematic.

[Maico]

No spark :( Time to review the schematic.

Oh ohooo. No sparky. No sparky not good.

[RubberSalt]

Creating a 2nd schematic. After this, I'm moving on to try a new idea. Replace the components on the CDI with new parts and see if it sparks.

[RubberSalt]

here's my 2nd take on the schematic. It is the same as the first electrically. I found a data sheet for the 3s4m. The diodes read "T303" the 2nd 3 is small.

No idea on the zener diode yet. Its time to replace components on the original board and see if I get spark.

[Maico]

Gabriel....

You get this figured out and I'll bet I can have a custom aluminum box fabricated to fit.

[RubberSalt]

That would be cool. Plastic or metal should be fine.

Tonight, I'm soldering new components to the board to check for spark. After that, I'll replace the SCR then the thyristor(p115). If I can get spark I can swap parts until I don't.

After this, I'll be pulling the cdi apart provided by Maico. I'll need to double check the capacitors. I think my 1uf may need to be a 2.2uf. This can be augmentation d by using 2 uf caps and 2 100nf caps.

Future builds will simply use the right cap lol

[RubberSalt]

Spark!! :-D I took the original CDI I tore apart. I soldered new resistors and a zener diode rated for 5.1v on to it. I replaced the SCR with a bt151-500r. And i replaced all 3 caps. it sparks! :-D.

I'm going to swap out the p115 transistor scr thriac thyristor thingy tomorrow.

[Ryanq55]

WTF did you just say??? :wondering :lol:

[RubberSalt]

I replaced a few 30 year old components with some brand new stuff. Spark! :)

Tonight, I'm to replace all the diodes with the new ones. I can't find the part numbers on the old diodes.. But some new ones should work just the same... I hope. They could some weird as ones deigned to have reverse current leakage
.

[RubberSalt]

All the diodes have been replaced. It acts the exact same... Means the diodes I select are compatible :) They are bigger than stock.

I am noticing 1 thing different that the OEM set up. Mine doesn't spark nearly as fast. I have to crank it over fast to get a single spark. It did this with the original scr and diodes. I want to blame this on the zener diode. It's the only part I don't have a number on. I'm guessing with a 5.1v.

The other thing could be the caps. It's possible I didn't get reliable measurements on them. Maico's CDI measures 2.2uf on the big cap. I'm running 1uf. >.<

I'm going to swap out the p115. I've got a handful of transistors to test.

Main point of all this.. CLOSE :-D

[RubberSalt]

P115 replacement test number 1. Fail.

This is with the replacement part used in the kx125 cdi from before. I've got 2 other ways it could fit..

Time to bring out the breadboard again. I'm glad I have been able to isolate it down to a tiny transistor.

Monday, I'm going to take it to our local electrical store place and see if they can figure it out. They have thousands of different parts in there and 75+ years of experience combined... Money says they won't know what it is lol

[YTZ drew]

Are you building this on a new board, or the original one? I just looked at your schematic again, and if P115 is a transistor that is a very odd connection. The middle lead is usually the base, and the diagram shows it going straight to ground. If you're sure that the diagram is right, then I don't think P115 is a transistor. My guess wold be an SCR. But, voltage regulator chips sometimes look like SCR's. Is it rectangular, or "D" shaped like a small transistor?

[RubberSalt]

Your correct ytz drew. I've replaced everything on the original board. With new parts. There should be pictures of everything if you want to check it out.

I've got a breadboard I've been playing with but had no puck. Mostly due to that p115.

Its D shapped.

[RubberSalt]

I'm looking at the data sheet for the EC103D3 I purchased. It looks like the pins may be different. I'll be playing around with this more after work today.
EC103D3 is the replacement for the replacement on the kx125/250 cdi lol

[RubberSalt]

SPARRRRKKKK!!!!! :-D

I got spark using my breadboard and all 100%brand new parts. I had to swap the thingy around. YTZ Drew was correct.
I also had a different zener diode in it. It provided spark closer to OEM. Much much closer. I'm redoing the schematic using the computer. It'll be accurate to what I have.

[RubberSalt]

Within the week, I'll be pulling the cdi donated by Maico part. I want to double check all the capacitor values.

Anyone have a source on boxes that I can put the circuits in? I want these to be able to bolt up. I'd really like it if we could use the bolts to hold the cdi on as a ground. Eliminate 1 wire.

[big specht]

Sounds like you are getting closer. Do you have access to a bike dyno ? That would be the best way to test it to see if it changed the timing curve for the best or not

[RubberSalt]

No dyno access.

Timing light may do it. It hasn't fired yet. I tested it on my lunch break.

I've got more kinks to work out. The zener diode.. May not be even be a zener diode lol.

[Maico]

Within the week, I'll be pulling the cdi donated by Maico part. I want to double check all the capacitor values.

Anyone have a source on boxes that I can put the circuits in? I want these to be able to bolt up. I'd really like it if we could use the bolts to hold the cdi on as a ground. Eliminate 1 wire.

I think you'd be better off sticking to an original design. They were rubber mounted to help isolate from vibration. A solid mounted CDI box is asking for failure. I don't know of any bike/trike/quad or sled that had a solid mounted CDI box.

[RubberSalt]

Your are correct, these machines do put out some good vibes lol.

If anyone sees a possible idea for a box, send me a link. I've been pricing blank circuit boards being custom made. They are only cheap when in bulk. I'm going to try and stick with the oem board with a slight change to the traces to accommodate the changes for new SCR (ec103d).

The first few units I build and send out will be on prototype board.

[wonderboy]

I'm not sure how many you plan on making, but etching your own boards (especially a single sided board) is not too tough. The process involves exposing a special board sandwiched with your circuits printed on clear film to light, rinsing off the chemical resist that got exposed to light (leaving your traces), and then etching in ferric chloride. You can print multiple CDI boards onto one large board, process the one large board, and then cut out the individual boards using a saw.

[jeswinehart]

I can make a mold of the oem box if your finale board size will be able to fit inside so resins can be poured into the mold thus encapsulating and sealing.
Can copy the oem mounting rubbers as well.

[RubberSalt]

I need to looking into etching the boards and the cost to do so. The copper claded board, the UV light(not sure if sunlight or a blacklight works), an theetxhing solutions.

I wish my 3d printer would have been here already, cases wouldn't be a problem. As for molding the OEM case, we may end up doing that. Same for the connector that goes to the stator.

[RubberSalt]

Woot!! Engine is running off a bread board. After a few tweaking to which capacitors and which diodes are in play, it fired.

[jeswinehart]

That's great ! So you got 2 very cool things going on,,,, building CDI's and a 3 D printer coming ~ nice !
Whats the ETA on the printer ?

[6spdls1z28]

I was on rocky mountain atvmc yesterday looking at all the oem replacement parts for an 87 t3 and out of all it says the cdi box ships in 5-10 days. But stator flywheel everything is discontinued. Check if im wrong

[RubberSalt]

No idea on the printer, but they started shipping last month. Many many orders to fill.. Kick starter.

I've got to learn how to use a printer still lol.

[RubberSalt]

I purchased a PCB etching kit today. This will be interesting.

[RubberSalt]

I took the Tecate for a test ride today, in the rain. I taped my breadboard down to the front fender. Kicked it over a couple of times and it fired up. The top end RPM wasn't there, it wouldn't rev.

After a few laps around the yard, it died. Breadboard was wet LOL

[Maico]

I was on rocky mountain atvmc yesterday looking at all the oem replacement parts for an 87 t3 and out of all it says the cdi box ships in 5-10 days. But stator flywheel everything is discontinued. Check if im wrong

Rocky mountain, PartZilla, etc,etc...they all use the factory kawasaki web base as a source for all their parts.

The CDI has looooonnnngggg been discontinued.

[Maico]

I took the Tecate for a test ride today, in the rain. I taped my breadboard down to the front fender. Kicked it over a couple of times and it fired up. The top end RPM wasn't there, it wouldn't rev.

After a few laps around the yard, it died. Breadboard was wet LOL

I absolutely hate wet bread!! LOL

Nice job,Gabriel!! You're almost there!!

[RubberSalt]

I ordered a bunch of 22nf and 10nf 630v film caps to fine tune the RPM ranges. I also ordered some stackable female headers. It'll let me swap caps at will for testing. There is also a 1/2 Watt 1000 piece resistor kit coming. All resistors should be upgraded to 1/2w. All but 2 were originally 1/4watt.

I received 100 1n5408 diodes. These show a 1 volt drop, can handle 1k volts, and 3 amps continues. I couldn't find the OEM specs, but other schematics show diodes only rated for 1 amp to be used. So I tripled that :)

[6spdls1z28]

Rocky mountain, PartZilla, etc,etc...they all use the factory kawasaki web base as a source for all their parts.

The CDI has looooonnnngggg been discontinued.

Ok i see hopefully my cdi doesn't go out anytime soon.

[RubberSalt]

I got some 10 pin connectors in the mail. I'm just waiting on more caps.

On a side note, I've started designing the PCB. It's based of a radio shack proto type board.

[RubberSalt]

Got my caps and my 1/2 w resistors in the mail today. Time for prototype version 1.1 :)

[Dirtcrasher]

Awesome stuff here guys!!

[BigHarp99]

This is pretty awsome!

[RubberSalt]

Sorry for the long delay on updates. I haven't made any progress, been ties up with other life. Stupid non 3 Wheeler life.

Anyways, i'm headed down to the dunes(waynoka OK) this week end. I plan on having a prototype made that is adjustable.

I've got the cdi maico provided working, so I have a baseline.

I've got 3 potentiometers. One for each cap. I got to thinking that caps shouldn't be the only thing that determine the rpm range, but the value of the resistors. I want to say its resonate frequencies. I could be way off on this and wasted money lol.

[YTZ drew]

I think you're right about the resonant frequency determining the timing curve. I have a fair understanding of how cdi's work, but the math the engineers used is way over my head. Good luck, and don't give up, you'll get it!

[BigHarp99]

Hay, you from oklahoma? I'm from oklahoma.

[RubberSalt]

Negative, Wichita KS. Not far though.

The cdi is coming a long alright. The wire I'm using is a little to big for this circuit board. It won't fit through the holes happily.

[barnett468]

.
i like your project and admire you for taking it on.

[RubberSalt]

Decided to make life easier. Made a work bench next to my computer. Has a spot for a hot soldering iron, tape/wire/solder spools. Spot for clamps and magnifying glass. Dozen or so holes for screw drivers/plier, ect.

This should help out. Next I'll need a spot for parts. I know I don't know enough room to separate everything out that I have. But how about everything on an active project? I figure 20-25 compartment storage container should work. This CDI only has a couple dozen parts(15 components, circuit board, wires)

[big specht]

So did you get any on bike testing done?

[RubberSalt]

Only what I've done before. I haven't had much of a chance to really get down into building.

*needs break from life*. Sprained my left kankle pretty good last night. That might be my break lol

[RubberSalt]

I'm uploading the video of when I got the CDI built on a bread board to work. This is the very first attempt were it ran. The caps are not right so it won't rev. You'll hear it, sounds like jetting, but its not.

https://youtu.be/xnu5wmKTZTY

[RubberSalt]

I feel like a status update is needed as things have died down on this for me.

John supplied 2 more CDI's the other day. Unfortunately, they are the wrong part number. I've got the CDI that Maico provided is working and is my benchmark. I'm was in need to tear down a CDI to get the remaining 2 capacitor values and the diode number.

The night before last, while scouring ebay, I found another Gem waiting for my wallet to open up and empty it self. I ordered another CDI. The same 21119-1074 that I've been working with. Once it comes in, I'm going to tear one apart, get the numbers I need, update the schematic, post it online for us all.. and then begin prototyping again.

On a side note, I scored a KX 250 jug and piston for $111 today :)

[RubberSalt]

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Time for round 63. Using stock pcb and all parts are 100% new.

This is the first CDI I was able to get to the pcb with. Im hoping this runs and runs well :)

[big specht]

Well has anything ever came of this idea? I'm in the market for a cdi cause I'm not really likening the pvl that I have on my bike now

[RubberSalt]

Actually, yes. with all brand new components, the CDI does work. It's based directly off the schematic I have posted on the other page. I'm in search of some one who has knowledge of assembly and more free time than me. I'm willing to send a set of components to be soldered up. The PCB is proto typing board. I don't have a layout build just yet. I started working on it, the image is below. If my new job continues the way it is, I'll be able to pick this project up before to much longer. I still owe several of you guys CDI's!

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[wonderboy]

So you need somebody to draw up the PCB? I can do the assembly, but drawing up and etching the PCB can take some effort. Were you ever able to uncover the bottom of the PCB enough to see how they ran their traces and laid everything out?

[RubberSalt]

Yup. Had this thing running built on a breadboard. The PCB has all the traces on 1 side. I could just copy it I suppose.

Some of the pics earlier in the thread contain pictures.

[RubberSalt]

One of the things I would like to incorporate is an adjustable CDI. Something simple as a bank of small capacitors and switches to turn them on and off. Being they directly effect RPM, this would give you some control.


Another idea i've had, well, a completely different idea, a programable CDI based off an Arduino. After messing with these over the past 8 months, I've realized that they are very very capable as a micro controller. This would require a lot of R&D and some new hardware. Removing the trigger coil and setting up a hall effect sensor or something along those lines to get crank position based off the magnets. Hall effect sensor are dirt cheap (bought 100 for i think $8?) From there, the charging coil could up upped drastically. The principal would be the same as the current CDI, and all other CDIs. You can directly charge the cap using the charging coil, and then release the stored energy when it's triggered. In this case, the arduino would send the signal to trigger it. The arduino would receive the position of the crank based off 2 Hall effect sensors. Simple math will let you calculate the time between the pulses send by the sensors, This will give you RPM and an approximation of position. From this point, you know RPM and a little more math on when to dump the power from the Cap into the ignition coil. How you've got a programmable CDI :) If it's done really well, you can have it read an SD card for a text file that contains RPMs and ignition timing. Much easier to program those timing curves! And even and LCD screen with output stats. Maybe some data logging back to that SD card. who knows.

My current position doesn't allow for this. No room in home or shop, etc. In another year-2 I'll be moving and changing all of this! BTW, Arduino based ECUs are out there. Arduinos are Micro controllers. They cant computer much more than math, but they can control the world as far as switches, relays, and everything else under the sun that runs on electricity!

[wonderboy]

I'm thinking exactly as you are, to make something adjustable. My choice would be a PIC, which I have a lot of experience with. I'll have to go back and look more carefully at the pics and schematics to see how you'd incorporate a micro for the firing event.

[RubberSalt]

I pulled apart my running repaired CDI and scanned in the PCB. Here's the original PCB.

I've started modding this and preparing it for etching. I'm designing this for 800volts opposed to the 250/400 it was originally done for. That way my custom stator wont cook it later. One other major mod, the wire. The OEM used wire, I don't know what gauge, but 16g was way way to big for the PCB. Mine will fit 16g wire. I don't like the concept of voltage drop or cooked wires over time, and 16g automotive wire is readily available.

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One thing i do know, with the OEM stator, The plug sparked. With my custom wound, it snapped at me lol.

[RubberSalt]

I've began modifying the layout. Before, the wires coming out could have been done a little better. I'm moving them all to 1 side. The wire that goes to the ignition coil is going to be big. I'm thinking 14 gauge. I know it's overkill... But with the high voltage, I'd like to get as much power to the coil as possible with the least amount of loss. Wires are also less likely to burn up. This PCB is going to be larger than the original. With it housing larger and more robust components, it needs to be.

I've also thought about encasing the entire thing in clear epoxy, at least for the first 1 or 2.

[Maico]

Awesome!! Keep up the good work!!

[RubberSalt]

I've been doing a good deal of the work.. at work during my free time. I've forgotten to measure the maximum width this can be to still bolt to the same holes with the rubber bushings :-\. I also forgot my flash drive with the data.

So far, the PCB is pretty small. I've found of a way to etch the PCB without a printer. A low end laser plotter + spray paint.
The other method i thought of is to make a part with my 3D printer that will mask off the part to be etched away, then spray paint it. then etch.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Custom-PCB-Prototyping-using-a-Laser-Cutter/step3/go-laser-go/

[RubberSalt]

Etched a PCB. Went old school. Sharpie.

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[RubberSalt]

Project Tecate CDI is well underway at this point. I am using Metal film resistors opposed to Carbon. When they age, resistance goes up. Carbon goes down. I didn't have the exact values i needed, so i simply just stacked them in parallel to get what I needed. I also double checked a few of the original resistor values i had listed. It looks like they aged and the resistance went up. Several of them were way out of tolerance compared to what the color bands said.

It looks like I'll need to order a few different resistors in the mean time. I'll also need to locate bigger caps so I'm not stacking them either!

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[big specht]

Keep us up dated

[RubberSalt]

Does anyone have a source for wire on these? Blue and black are easy.

The mixed color wire gets tricky.

[83ATC185]

You might look into Allied Electronics, they have all sorts of stuff.

http://www.alliedelec.com/

[RubberSalt]

One thing i noticed with the original parts, is they all drifted in value. Most of the diodes barely conducted (they were the main culprit). The resistors shift values from what they should have been. A 47 ohm, measured at 27 ohms!. They 91ohm pulled in at 97. A 30 Ohm measured in at 20. These are all carbon based. The resistances lowers as they go out and take heat cycles over the last 30 years. The metal film are much more resilient in call conditions. They have less capacitance and handle the higher frequency's better. I'm estimating 80Khz when the motor is twisting at 10k rpm. 4 magnets -> 8 north and south polls total. 8x10k rpm=80khz AC electric output.

[fieldy]

I do not know if this would be any help at all to you whatsoever and you are probably aware of them but there have been Mototek CDI's advertised on Ebay the last few weeks for all the tecate years i believe. I am not sure if they are adjustable. What era these were marketed in, probably the heyday? I put a link to them in the Tecate group a couple weeks ago. Oh well, thought maybe you would like to know about them. Maybe someone knows about them or has one. Sounds like you are going to kick butt on the ones you are working on.

[RubberSalt]

I hooked the CDI up last night... Carb was gummed up with old gas. After dealing with that and getting gas to flow through, it fired up. I fired it up a few times. Each time, 1 kick. It revs out really nice. I'm going to try and get a video of it this evening.

[RubberSalt]

Maybe tonight I'll be able to get a video. Started storming and hailing as i left work.

In other news, I just dropped a bunch of money into tooling to start manufacturing the PCBs.

[Matt85'350x]

Maybe tonight I'll be able to get a video. Started storming and hailing as i left work.

In other news, I just dropped a bunch of money into tooling to start manufacturing the PCBs.

Are you actually making them yourself? There are a lot of companies overseas that can do it on the cheap.

[RubberSalt]

Yup, am making them myself.

I don't know if I would trust over seas. I'm using only the higher end components.

I do intend on selling these, and I'd like to offer a minimum of a 3 year warranty.

[RubberSalt]

The coil wire has arrived. Has a much nicer and thicker coating that I was expecting. Very nice wire. Made in USA, just like it should be.

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On some of the coil wires, I was seeing black and burnt wire. Mostly due to it flexing/breaking and getting thin where the wires come out of the cdi. As you can see, this is a much heavier guage wire.

This, like everything, is overkill. ☺

[RubberSalt]

Does anyone have an idea where I can source just the 3 ping electrical connector for the CDI? The only place I've found a few places that have them, but they are a little pricy.

HC3 connector set on the order page on http://www.vintageconnections.com/

I hope I don't have to make mold/cast them.

[Matt85'350x]

Yup, am making them myself.

I don't know if I would trust over seas. I'm using only the higher end components.

I do intend on selling these, and I'd like to offer a minimum of a 3 year warranty.

Why not? That's where the VAST majority of electronics are made now. I'm all for American made but it seems like people associate trikes with being American; yeah they were/are popular here but they do not originate here. Just seems funny to me to be reproducing a part for a Japanese machine but then saying that an overseas PCB company wouldn't be able to make a quality part. This isn't a complicated circuit, how many layers does the PCB have? Is it even 2? I'm impressed you're reproducing the CDI but you could bring the price way down if you got a PCB company to make the actual boards and then you could just populate them when they came in.

[RubberSalt]

I've considered having the PCB it self made overseas. That part is simple and isn't concerning. The cheapest I've found started at $184 for the first PCB. Making the PCB is cheap either way. I paid up front for some tooling I've been wanting. This was more or less an excuse to buy it lol.

Still waiting on it to get in >.<

[RubberSalt]

I did some direct comparison to the OEM CDI. I don't have a method for charting or logging the OEM ignition curve, but audibly, it sounds very very similar. The RPMs race up just about as fast and the rev limit is right about the same.

I'm waiting for a few more parts to arrive before i finish up a few more of them. I owe some of these back to the community for the help provided about a year ago.

I'd give it 3-5 more weeks before I can start shipping these. I'm still in search of the 3 plug connector for these.

I really don't like the idea of providing a product that isn't ready to bolt up and go. None of that rigging, or guess work. i want an OEM replacement that is as easy to install as OEM and works as well as OEM.

[nstyle73]

Heck of an effort

[RubberSalt]

Made a new PCB design to accommodate the parts better. It's the same size as the original PCB. I didn't have the correct drill bits with me, but i figured for a test, it wouldn't hurt. plenty of copper to solder each leg of everything too.


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[jeswinehart]

http://vintageconnections.com/ click pricing and scroll down to HC2 http://vintageconnections.com/

[RubberSalt]

I'll have to order a couple and see how I like them.

[RubberSalt]

I've ordered a handful of connectors.

I'm having trouble locating a suitable container for these. I've measured the components in at 2 in long x 1.5 in wide x 1in tall.

I'd like to go metal if at all possible, like OEM, but the cost is probably something i can't swing at the moment.

What I've been playing around with is making a plastic plate out of 1/4in acrylic that will cover the CDI and provide 2 mounting holes. From here, pot the CDI and let it adhear to the acrylic.

Option 3 is to use my 3d printer, but that is very slow going and unlikely to provide the strength of 1/4 acrylic. I can cut the acrylic on my laser cutter, but other plastics (such as ABS) wont cut nearly as well. I'm not sure if I'd want to go with 1/4in acrylic or 2mm ABS. ABS seems to be more forging and flexible, but doesn't cut as nice.

Any ideas or suggestions for a box/housing/mounting solution?

[jeswinehart]

http://www.alumilite.com/store/pg/21-How-To-Videos-Alumilite-Mold-Making-Casting-Materials.aspx

http://www.alumilite.com/

I would be absolutely deighted/honored to make you the mold for your awesome achevement !
PM'ING you my contact info.
ABSOLUTELY hands down the best reproduction work I have seen to date. You set the bar high for us "re-pop" guys to top Gabriel !!!

[RubberSalt]

Thanks John. I'll give you a call this week end.

After speaking to my Nephew, We came up with some ideas as far as a housing/mounting goes. This one will be more of a surprise. It may take me a bit to get it going. I will be discussing it with John when i give him a call.

For a 17 year old kid, he sure has some good ideas! Over the last winter, he helped me design and build my 3D printer.

When he was younger I may have scared some sense into him. I told him, "If your dumb, your out of the family. Remember your Uncle Robert?..." Well, he never had an uncle Robert, but the kid has grown up pretty smart lol.

[RubberSalt]

I've been tinkering around with some idea's for a mount/housing. This is one of them. It's an exploded view and I could 3d print this without a problem. 3D printing is slow though. I could just use encapsulation epoxy to hold it all together.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1659722

The blue oval would be plastic. I'm thinking 1/8-1/4th in thick. At that thickness, I'm sure it would be tough enough.

[Maico]

Did you save the OEM metal housings from the several that you dissected ?? If you have one....I bet John could make a mold of it. You could re-use the original mounting grommets and spacers and have a slick aftermarket CDI.

Just a thought.

[RubberSalt]

Negative, they get destroyed. Modeling and 3D printing is pretty easy. Those there made in 10-20 minutes. No measurements or anything made, just an idea.

My main concern is that with the weight of the CDI and the box being plastic, it could break or crack due to vibrations and jumping etc. The grommets should be a considerable help with that and over tightening.

I'm not opposed to creating something similar to the OEM that uses the rubber grommets and some spacers. I'll even 3D print a custom grommet for these to compensate for the thickness. After some finish work (like an acetone vapor bath), they can be molded. 3D printing can be amazing for prototyping and parts to molds. A well designed part+finish work of the print=a good mold.

The limitation is typically parts with no support below and no way to remove supports if you add them. Fortunately, the housing for this is ultra simple, a box with tabs.

This is one of the prints I forgot to remove supports(on the sides of the skull) on while printing. Overall, it came out alright, but took some rework to clean it up. I didn't create the skull, i just modified it. You can see how it's hollowed out and I've added our company name to the back of the skull. It was made for my boss at the last company i worked at (Hightouch). You can see the name of the company through the eye sockets on the back of the head.

I've since upgraded the heck out the printer. At the moment, I've got to install a new stepper drive and reprogram it, and I've lost my source code lol. The printer can do some pretty good sized parts. I've measured the travel at 17.5x17.5x13 inches. I've got a dual extruder to do multi colors/materials, but I've yet to install it.

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[jeswinehart]

Did you save the OEM metal housings from the several that you dissected ?? If you have one....I bet John could make a mold of it. You could re-use the original mounting grommets and spacers and have a slick aftermarket CDI.

Just a thought.

Oh yeah, RubberSalt and myself have been yakking back in forth quite a bit,,,, bouncing ideas and such back and forth.
This is such a great undertaking Gabrial has done ~ simply awesome !!!

[RubberSalt]

This was idea number 2 from yesterday. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1659811 Apparently, i didn't post the... the post lol

It's my lunch break now, so I'm revising it.

[RubberSalt]

Here is a more refined idea. It looks somewhat familiar to what we all love and know!

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1661447/apps/#apps

[RubberSalt]

The ends came in! They are the wrong side. The quality looks decent though. They fit the OEM perfectly. For a stator, they would be great!


233208

[RubberSalt]

I was checking the fitment of the wire i bought. It's too thick for the plug :(

I'll have to shop around for something i like that is heavy and quality. So far I have been a fan of that marine grade wire that'll be going to the coil.

[RubberSalt]

New wires have been located.

I also got a little roll of heatshrink for our label printer at work. I wanted to see how it would turn out... It looks kinda cool. I won't be adding this to all the CDIs unless people just really want it.

233218

[RubberSalt]

The ends came in. I'm going to put the ends on and send a few out Friday!

[christph]

When will these be available and at what price? Did you say they will provide a hotter spark? I've got a high compression engine that I think will run better with more spark energy. Have you ever thought of redesigning the OEM stator? I've thought about winding one myself but I'm not an electrical engineer so it would be trial and error on my part. More windings? Thicker wire? Us Tecate guys appreciate your efforts.

[RubberSalt]

As for stator rewinding. Been there, done that lol. This is one of my prototypes. The ignition side is very hot. I've managed to stuff so much wire into it, that the coil started rubbing the inside of the flywheel. 233342

If your OEM CDI is old and worn out, that can easily contribute to weak spark.

As for a price, I was thinking $200 would be fair.

I've also started designing a CDI with some adjustments. I Plan on it being an OEM replacement with some switches that can be flipped to adjust the ignition timing curve. It'll have marks set up to match the oem settings, but allow for some room to play.

[RubberSalt]

The replacement ends came in. They look just as good as the original. All the bullet connectors also showed up.

I also noticed that i forgot to order the tool to crimp these down. I wonder what the Pros and cons are for solder and crimping.

[plevib]

Solder will always be a better electrical connection, but crimp connectors are very common in automotive and other vehicles. It's also my opinion that properly crimping a connection is more difficult that properly soldering one. You can do both, if the connection insulator is a separate peice. Crimp first then solder. Very good connection.

Credentials: I'm an electrician. Hope that's good enough haha

Also very very good work! I can't wait to see some pictures of final product. I don't have a z but the work you are doing is phenomenal! I'm also very interested in the modified cdi with different curves. Keep up the good work and the :pics:

[Red Rider]

If it were me, I would crimp them, and solder them as well. I've never had a soldered connection pull apart like a crimped-only connection occasionally will.

[RubberSalt]

I've had a set back with my 3d printer. The z axis began skipping steps. I guess the 3 19:1 motors need to be slippers down.

I've wired up a large external driver and reprogramed the machine. It'll take. Little more finagling to get it right.

[RubberSalt]

I've got the printer up and going. There's a test print/prototype going right now!

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[big specht]

Lol looking good. It amazing what you can do with those printers

[RubberSalt]

The print came out... Oversized by far! I believe I forgot to change a couple of things in the code. I was tired!

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I've looked over the code, My steps per mm were off. This part of the code tells the stepper motors how many times to move to equal 1mm of movement.

I had 228.5 steps instead of 200 for my X axis. And 200 instead of 160 for my Z axis.

And for those of you wondering, yes, this is 1mm/228.5. This is how small of a movement I've got it set for at the moment. It sounds really cool and precise, but truthfully, the nozzle is to big to even consider being precise at .1mm. This is true of almost any filament based 3d printer. They can more than accurately make the same thing over and over and over, but they can't make the ultra tiny, easily.

Layer Height. You may hear of printers being able to print layers at 75, 50, or 25 microns, ect. This is directly related to how many steps per mm on the z axis. Currently, I can do 1.05 micron. With a quick change of the code, It'll go down to .13 Microns. <- This is ridiculously not needed. Even if I found a .1mm nozzle, you risk a piece of dust getting into the machine.

[RubberSalt]

This came out much much better. I'm not digging the translucent blue filament. I've gone ahead and ordered something more appealing to team green.

Some tweaking still needs to be done. I used supports internally. Somewhat difficult to print sideways without them! The box is tough and the tabs are sturdy.

What are your guy's thoughts on this box and the mounting tabs? This box is ABS with 35% infill. Ideas, comments, suggestions?

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[big specht]

Looking good I'm with you on the color change. But the blue don't look bad too. Maybe a hot green color

[plevib]

Very very cool. I like the plastic box instead of metal. Never rusts! It'll look cool in green

[RubberSalt]

Still waiting on my filament. In the mean time. I suppose if someone wanted a custom design on a case, they could hit me up prior or ordering or when ordering.

2D pictures can be embossed. Black and white works well for this. Other shapes and designs are also possible.

Gotta love 3d printing! So very capable. I'm making a ecig for my good brother(I've got a bad brother too). I grabbed a bunch of things of thingiverse and stuck them together. He calling it his demon mod. He'll need to populate the electronics.

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[jeswinehart]

I don't understand alot of the tech lingo but do beleive my eyes .
Fantastic stuff Gabrial !

[RubberSalt]

Unfortunately, the prints that that devil ecig, require supports. This makes the prints require a lot of clean up.

With the tecate CDI, it's simply a box. I really need to pick a design and just get a mold made of it!

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[RubberSalt]

The green has came in. I've got 3 colors now! Red, Green, and Blue. The green really lights up under a black light. So for all you who like to hang out at clubs and raves, get a green CDI!. I'll make a few housings and get a picture in decent light.
233575

[RubberSalt]

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233607

I need to head to the local hardware store and see what grommets will fit or if I need to make some adjustments.

[christph]

Regarding the CDI color, I like black. I'm not looking to draw attention to the electrical system.

[RubberSalt]

It's already on its way. I prefer black for the same reason.

[Maico]

233605
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233607

I need to head to the local hardware store and see what grommets will fit or if I need to make some adjustments.

If you can make these so the original grommets and bushings can be retained...... :)

I have the original OEM grommets and bushings from the OEM CDI box I sent you if you need them to make adjustments.

[RubberSalt]

I've got the originals. My only concern is how thin they are. I doubt he plastic would hold up being that thin.

The other option is to simply do away with the grommet and bolt to the frame directly.

Looking at other CDIs out there, and that's how the are done. With only 1 bolt hole! They are smaller though.

[RubberSalt]

I believe I've got a solution to the grommet/bushing problem. I'll just build the box to have the bolt go right though it.

Some of the mounts i made for the printer were strong enough that i could not strip m5 screws with a screw driver. I should be able to do something similar to the mounts. Ill draw up an idea and share it. It should also give the CDI a simpler look, more square (which I'd personally prefer), and much much stronger. If at most, just bushing would be used.

[plevib]

I like the green! It turned out much nicer than the others. Did the others run out of plastic before finishing? Black would look nice too I'm sure

[RubberSalt]

The fitting that holds the bowden tube (tube that guides the filament) popped off about 6 inches before the red finished. So essentially, yup lol. The blue was the first one i did. It's a translucent blue, so it really shows off any mistake. The green was the last and It really did come out nice.

The strength of these is way higher than the first ones i did. I wouldn't hesitate to run these. The tabs/spots for grommets have next to no flex.

The black should be here in the next day or so. I'm going to redesign and reprint.

[RubberSalt]

One of the problems I was having with the original size was fitting the CDI in it. The higher voltage components (mostly the caps), are way way bigger that the original stuff. This set up will use a couple of longer bolts and simply go through. If need be, I can enlarge the holes and we can use spacers in them.

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[RubberSalt]

I've been working on a side project while waiting for supplies.

I tore down a blaster CDI......... No wonder why these things are lacking!! Not much in the way of an ignition timing curve. It was about 12 times easier to rip apart and draw up a schematic that the tecate CDI. lol

so, on that note, I'm going to see if at possible to mod the tecate CDI to work on the blaster. The current trick on the blaster is to advance the timing 4 degrees and run a "hot shot" cdi. Rick's hot shot CDI <- was never claimed to be made. On a side note. The basics of the Blaster CDI is similar to the tecate.

[RubberSalt]

Black filament came in :-D

Forgot to pay the Internet bill.. D-: Anyone want to buy a cdi for $70? Lol

I was thinking about pricing again. I'm thinking about putting these in the 3ww shop for $150 and on ebay for $200.

[Billy Golightly]

You've really done an amazing job reverse engineering and then coming up with your own design on these things man, I have to give you a two big thumbs up for the work and accomplishments involved in it.

[RubberSalt]

Thanks Billy, I just test fitted the latest box i made. It's similar to the one above, but smaller. With less mass, it's be less susceptible to cranking under vibration and stress.

I've got about 15 CDI's made now with the exception of the plugs. I see to get these over to John to have molds made.

I've also got some encapsulation epoxy. It should be similar to what Kawasaki used. Prevent vibration and moisture from getting in as well as add strength rigidity. A plastic box alone won't due the trick!

I'll get some pictures of the housings and the CDI's this evening.

[C.J]

WOW!!! All I can say is WOW!!!!

Have you ever wanted to make an adjustable CDI for an LT250R? Lol!!

Seriously though,, great job on everything! You're undertaking something that not many people ever would THINK to.

(side note:::::: kinda serious about if you wanted to try a hand at building an adjustable LT250R stator :naughty: )

[RubberSalt]

I couldn't find my snips last night. Had a few CDI's with extra long spidery looking leads still on them. I didn't want to take a picture and run everyone off lol

As for the LT250r, I'd love to, but it gets tricky when you don't have the CDI or the machine to test with lol. If I had a CDI, I could probably figure out the rest.

The main thing with an AC-CDI is they can't advance the timing. All they can do is retard it. This is perfectly fine for 2 strokes though. When kicking, you'll want it retarded, that way it doesn't kick back and you don't end up over the handle bars. Around 2-3k rpm, is typically the max advance(from what I've researched), from there the timing begins to retard. The 2-3k RPM range is typically where you want your max advance set. This is done by adjusting the stator or flywheel. After that, it begins retarding the timing.

The Tecate has a nice little circuit to help with kick back. Im able to change it, making the machine easier to kick at the risk of it kicking back. I can go the opposite direction with the setting, making you have to kick it hard, but allowing you to advance the base timing more. On the adjustable set up, I'm thinking about adding a switch to allow you to change the settings for kicking. May make those race machines easier to get rolling lol. This circuit did not exist for the blaster (no surprise lol).

My brothers 89 trx 250r has left nasty nasty bruises all up, down, and around his leg due to kick back lol .

[RubberSalt]

I grabbed a handful of my stuff and snapped a picture.
I've included some failed parts just for the fun of it
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[Thorpe]

Excellent job Rubbersalt! Hell of a commitment, and solution to the problem of the tecate cdi! I applaud you!

[RubberSalt]

I've concluded. Testing is a pain!!

My kicker has been slipping and getting worse and worse and worse. Between the fear of it kicking back while experimenting with different diodes and it slipping.. Makes it hard to start! Last time it kicked back, I ended up limping for a few minutes lol. 3.6v is to low for that diode!!

I'm currently waiting for a washers and a spring. I used the diagram below from partzilla to diagnose it. Besides dirty oil, I could see a weak spring(92081A) being part of the problem. The Rachet(13078) and Gear-spur(59051A) could be the problem depending on teeth. The plastic piece(13070) could also be at fault.

I'll be pulling mine out in the next few days for diagnostics. Once out, I'll analyze, and make changes as needed in attempt to repair it. I'll create a new thread for this part once it comes.

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I should invest into some quality boots.

[RubberSalt]

I can kick it again!! Cut back all the teeth on the smaller racheting gear. Added a new spring to the racheting side too. (2 springs now). It rachets and has a good loud racheting click.

I'm sure griding away probably ruined it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's hardened.

It turns out my phone either didn't save the pictures of the work as it was happening(only the before!), or I lost it :(. Makes a write up much more difficult. Ive got another tecate I may need to do this too. I'll be sure to grab pictures then!

I installed my light up spark plug boot last night. It's cool being able to see it fire with the plug installed. Should make troubleshooting much easier.

https://www.amazon.com/HardDrive-Lighted-Spark-Plug-Harley-Davidson/dp/B00DX8AG0K
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[RubberSalt]

Now that my kick start works, and my stator is rewound(again), my carburetor is cleaned, I can get back to testing.

Oh. And the light up boot did what I expected! light up.. and rob spark power. It wouldn't barely fire with it on :(

I rewound my stator to a 200 ohm set up with 34g wire. I decided to hang out around the OEM area for kicks and logic.


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[Maico]

How is this coming along??

[barnett468]

.
Yes that gear is (or was) hardened.

I wouldn't use 2 springs.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[BGP]

Gabriel! This is some cool stuff. Remember me helping out with the pipe making? Now I have a question for you... maybe you can help with this CDI related conundrum.

A few years ago I bought an aftermarket CDI unit that was marketed as "tested before shipping, direct OEM (HA2) replacement, higher rev limit, better overall performance" and so on. My OEM 85 250R unit is still good but I was curious so bought it. However, I rebuilt the trike before I got a chance to try it and a bunch of other toys got in the way of finishing the 250R. SO, I finally got to completing it this past month and remembered the new CDI and decided to give it a try. Well, 100% of my attempts at starting it resulted in having my knee shoved into my pancreas! Nothing but kickbacks with the aftermarket CDI!

I emailed them but have yet to hear from them. Surely due to the warranty being up. Nevertheless, I put the timing light to it and the OEM fires precisely on the mark... buttery perfectness. The aftermarket unit, on the other hand, fires an amazing spark but does so about 30~40 degrees too soon. IE: if noon is the firing mark, the strobe lights it up at what would be 1:30 on a dial. As you probably know, timing it not adjustable on these engines.

Here's the question: What the trailpro trailpro trailpro trailpro?

PS: I'll probably end up boiling the unit to get the potting material off to get at the components. What dictates timing? Too small a capacitor? I also feel like buying a used flywheel and machining off most of the leading edge of the "triggering boss" to set back timing.

[RubberSalt]

I do, i reflect on those days a ton!! I've since(got a real job) invested into a slip roller, an Alpha tig 200x welder (with bottle), much better tooling, and more in depth knowledge. lol. I've still got that ultra ugly pipe!! It's my favorite trophy.

Base timing is set by the flywheel/trigger coil. This is always at max advance. The CDI controls everything from here. As far as timing in the CDI. It's a balance between the capacitors and the resistors (except in a blaster, then it's a joke of a CDI lol). Changing just the cap will more than likely get you what your looking for. There's a good chance the value on the cap will be missing when you pull it apart. If that's the case, you can pick up a capacitance meter cheap, or just experiment. Bigger caps retard timing more, small advance it. In the case of the Tecate, with 3 caps, there is a lot of resistance/capacitance tuning involved. The resistors slow the charging speed of the caps, retarding timing. They can also attenuate frequencies.

If it's electrically similar to the Tecate and several other CDIs I've played with, then you may be able to measure the main cap without taking it apart. Take the wire going to the coil and the kill switch wire and hook them to a cap meter. Adding a capacitor in series will lower the total capacitance (weird, I know). If you add a cap, and it fires even sooner, then you may try adding one in parallel, or pulling it apart and placing a bigger one in there. I'd expect to see a 1uf-2uf cap in that 250r.

Another idea would be to make a plate that the pickup coil bolts to, and the plate bolts to the engine, giving you a little wiggle room. It's been sometime since i've had the flywheel cover off on a 250r, I'm not sure if there is any way to adjust that. Another option would be to pull the keyway on the flywheel on rotate it 30 degrees or so. My brothers 89 trx is a pain in the arse to kick start. It kicks back 95% of the time. I've learned to simply kick it 1-2 inches as hard as i can and back my boot off before it kicks back. I don't know why it starts like this opposed to me kicking all the way... It's been that way since he got it, and it runs amazingly well. So we haven't tore into it lol



For an update on the Tecate CDI: After the stator rewind, I've got a strong spark. Everything was put on hold for a while. I had some troubles with my neighbor (my POS crooked brother). I came home and found everything in the shop I built... outside in the yard... Me and the lady ended up moving in with some friends. Until last night, I wasn't sure how long I'd be here, but it looks like I may be around for a bit. I can get back to work on this and focus on getting it running.

After the news about the living situation... I've ordered a new intake (mine was holy). I've got problem with the marine grade wires I choose simply being way to big for the rubber connectors. I'll either drill the rubber out and make the wire fit, or source thinner wire. With the exception of the end, I've got a complete CDI encased on wax (testing - in case it needs torn apart).

My engine is out of the bike, sitting on a bench at the moment. After a leak down and finding a leak, I decided to pull the paint off. Cant decide if I want to paint, or leave it raw lol. Either way, knowing I've got a stable home again, I can get to work on this!!!

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[RubberSalt]

Here's some pictures that are a little off topic. I did find quite a bit during the move. This includes my KLT200 repair manual. Someday, i'll get this scanned in so we can have a PDF of it.


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Made a universal leak down tester. Accuracy within 2%.


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Removing the paint from the engine. It did not hold up well at all. Paint stripper worked well on everything but the jug it self. It barely touched it.


239981
So much junk after the move. It needed a new home.

Got a storage unit.
Articat 300 2x4
Blaster
Tecate
1/2 Tecate
YT 175
ATC90
Suzuki LT250E
KLT200
Go ped (tiny wheel on top of everything on the left lol)
Tons and tons of parts in boxes and cabinets

Picked up an 82 RM125. Needs a CDI, go figure. I think it may have tranny issues. The shifting felt funny.

[RubberSalt]

.
Yes that gear is (or was) hardened.

I wouldn't use 2 springs.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR



I'd prefer a single spring that was stiffer, but I didn't have one on hand and didn't feel like sourcing one. So far the 2 springs is working. I'm just waiting for the day it binds up and it quits working. If that happens, I'll update this. Currently, theres very minimal kicks on it. But every kick.. kicked without slippage.

[99gsxr750]

What paint stripper did you use? I want to do the same to my motor and most likely leave it bare or somewhat polished at that point.

[RubberSalt]

I want to say it was goof off. I picked it up at lowes. It was a thick gel like substance I just painted on with a brush and power washed off.

[jeswinehart]

Glad to hear you are going to be back at it soon Gabriel !

[Dirtcrasher]

That printer is great!

What type of 3D printer do you have? They're going down in cost....

[RubberSalt]

The printer was originally a cobblebot kit. But the kit was just an extra large diy setup. The printer needs a ton of love still. I'm not satisfied with the print results on average. If i tighten everything up, it prints decent, but then loosens it self. A couple of the original cobble bot mounts are still in use... they suck. I havn't been able to recreate them due to the cold. The printer is in the garage. As far as the cheap kits go. Many of them will probably be OK. The parts you'll want to buy separate if not included are Ardiuno Mega, Ramps 1.4, 4-5 DRV8825 stepper drivers , e3d v6 hot end, Heated bed. You can typically get an electronics kit for cheap. The Chinese have taken over this market and make decent parts as far as electronics go. I've got 3 gear reduction motors moving the bed on mine. It's a little.... overkill. Bent an 8mm stainless steel lead screw on accident. My 3d printed plasitc mount didn't flex at all! I'm thinking about building another 1, that is smaller. My current 1 is a little overkill, external dimensions are 2ft x 2ft x 1.5ft. I could go on and on about these printers.

In other news: If the engine looked as good in person as it does in the pictures, it wouldn't have seen paint. Currently, it's drying. I intend on getting a fancy bolt kit for it, they way it has some contrast.
I used some oil & gasoline resistant rustoleum. It's rated for 2000 degrees. I hope it holds up!

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[RubberSalt]

One of the problems I encountered while assembling is the rubber connectors. They are a little pricey and the can't house the extra heavy wire I'm using. With that being said, I'm going to make my own plugs. Some years s
Back, I spoke with jeswinehart regards casting and replicating parts.

Since then, I've obtained a dual stage vacuum pump, vacuum chamber, pressure chamber, and the necessary guages. Instead of bugging John about making molds, I ordered some supplies to make my own. I figure that I may be going through a few revisions trying to figure out what I like most, and the mail is slow.... So. Yup! Making my own ends to house my extra big ass marine grade wire!

[RubberSalt]

I made some progress on the frame. I've scrubbed it clean, scrubbed the rust off, power washed, degreased it. For the scrubbing and washing (i should have took pics!), I used a wire brush, wirewheel+drill, scouring pads, and a knife. There was sludge from when my output shaft seal went in the sand.

Primed it with multiple coats of a high build primer (Ace hardware brand). Then followed this by a good wiping down. This gets the loose primer off so the next coat can stick. I followed this with a spray bomb gloss black on on the bottom. I used the entire can of gloss on the bottom. The pictures are with only the first coat. I did go extra thick and runny in the cobbled up redneck welds. I dunno when who started cobbling this together, but i know i added that grab bar and angle tubing (all I had!!). I do have another frame that will be done right some day.

I didn't care to mask anything off, or remove the front end. I half assed it. I admit it. lol None the less, it will help prevent Rust again, and atleast clean up the look of it. As for bolt holes go. I left several bolts installed. For the empty ones, I'll be running a tap through them to clean them up.

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[RubberSalt]

I've got CDI's ready for sale. $150 shipped. Plug and play with the OEM stator. It follows the original ignition curve.