350X baja race buildup [Archive]

oscarmayer

03-25-2015, 10:01 PM

With MANY life changing thigns happening (Divorce, surgery, finances damaged) it was decided we will move the Baja race for us to compete to 2017. Milner and Myself will both be racing together as 2 trikers in the 2017 Norra 1000, and I am even considering the entire Cortez Challenge!!!!
We are doing some possible design changes that may rock the trike world for 350X builders and this is a great thing! more details to come as we get them.

ok I am starting a thread for my 350x Baja racer build. I am 100% for sure going to run the Narra 1000 next year with my 350x.

Colors have changed to the following
White body and tank
Anodized blue frame and rear swinger
Alloy color wheels
Anodized blue handle bars
Polished fork tubes
Blue Rubber boots
Blue seat

Here is what I am at so far with parts:

White new plastic kit with super scoops
TCP trikes gusset kit
billet extended rear axle (300ex modded to fit)
new sprockets
new pro-taper chain (strongest available)
custom rebuild rear shock valved and spring for my weight
Custom rebuild front forks with Emulators and Gold valves for better comp and dampening controls
rear swinger was extended 2.2" total over stock
new bearings all the way around
new rear bearing carrier
new seat
new IMS tank
Auxiliary 1.2gal tank
new rear grab bar (desert racer style ;-) )
working on getting custom built Nerfs that can actually take a beating in racing conditions and survive
38mm Mikuni carb (easier to tune and work on in the desert and will have spare rebuild kit on hand)
open uni 2-step foam filter w/ outerwears cover (3 sets of these 2 for spares)
motion pro cables
motion pro twist throttle conversion kit (on long rides easier than thumb throttle)
8" DWT rear wheels
Duro sponsors my son and are willing to sponsor my desert racer so I will be using their rear MX tires
oem kedena 200x style front tire (new)
pro taper handle bars
new high cushion grips
stainless steel braided brake lines
TRX450R clutch and master front brake lever assemblies
front and rear caliper rebuild kits
front and rear brake pads
all-balls steering stem upgrade
all-balls bearings used elsewhere on the bike (swinger, front wheel, etc)

so chassis is 95% complete at this point for parts needed (minus the tool box I need and aux fuel tank I will be ordering as a last resort once I have tested fuel consumption on the final machine to see how far it goes on 1 tank)

Engine:
Stock right now. I was wanting more power and torque but I need it dead nutz reliable. I figure Mickey can help in that section. I may have to see about doing a "lease" on a spare motor as well just incase I am down there and it lets loose. I was hoping one of the shops here will work with me on a rebuilt spare and if it is used I pay a specified amount if not, it gets returned unused. and I pay a lease for having it available as a loaner. (maybe like a $300 deposit or something)

I figure since this was a 100% original motor with good compression, I probably don't have to worry about broken trans gearing. I'll rebuild the bottom end with new bearings and seals. I'll also redo the top end with higher comp big bore setup of some sorts. Not sure a stroker would be a good idea in the desert on an air-cooled motor. Head will need bigger valves, porting work and a better cam for sure.
I have to have the decomp setup working 100%. I cannot afford to be in the desert have it not work and break my leg on a kick back. Another option is I have seen an aftermarket decomp lever that goes in the sparkplug hole between the plug and head. There is a button you push and it opens a valve that lets pressure escape to the atmosphere reducing compression for starting. that may also be another option. If someone has ideas, kick them my way.

exhaust, I have the 400EX exhaust I was going to have modified for the 350X and use an aftermarket 450R muffler assembly.

All said and done the bike will be 100% revamped with modern technology. If you have some ideas that may help or recommendations please feel free to chime in. I am always open to good ideas. This will be my first Baja race let alone on an ATC.

Thanks for looking.
Mike

dman10

03-25-2015, 10:04 PM

Pics?
Sounds like a solid plans to me. I'm rather excited to see this build. It excites me.
What part of Texas are you in? North?

oscarmayer

03-25-2015, 10:14 PM

^ yea DFW area.
Thanks for the compliments!
right now no pics as the bike is just completely dissembled. a lot of parts are here but not everything. I will start photos once I start installing the gusset kit and will go from there.
I never was one to take photos of a bunch of parts just to show I have parts. ;) I figure once it is done, it will be a fun trike to ride no matter what.

userj8670

03-26-2015, 02:05 AM

Can't wait!

BOB MARLIN

03-26-2015, 08:58 AM

I think you should consider going with OEM bearings instead of the all- balls. I've had nothing but troubles with the all-balls stuff. The OEM stuff holds up for decades.

xrider

03-26-2015, 09:18 AM

I would only caution on the nerf bars. If you go that route, I would make them smaller than the ones out there. Basically enough area to provide a slip point for your boot. Much larger and you have potential to snag them on something or dig them into the ground if you land off camber. Other than that, the more suspension the better for that race. Curious to see some pics as you continue your build

hatc200x1

03-26-2015, 12:26 PM

This is awesome, really excited for this!!

oscarmayer

03-26-2015, 01:46 PM

thanks for the info Xrider, Yea, we will have to be weary of that. I am actually going to have them made different with a up curve on the main sections rather than flat straight like they are currently just for that reason. I feel the current models are ok for looks and for putting, but for racing will as you mentioned, snag and not hold up. I am probably going to have to find a tube bender and bend the main hoop section myself because the places I talked to all are several states away and have to have the trike there for test fitting. So, I can get a tube bender, bend the main hoop section and build the custom support brackets and sections and go from there. Foot pegs will be really wide like a quad. I prefer that much better to the thin stuff we have now.

I am waiting till I get the gusset kit in to start taking photos and working on the it. The fork tubes, I have thought about just polished, but then I am also thinking of same anodized blue as the frame and swinger to match. Not 100% sure.

Does someone know where I can get fork tube protectors from? what about an old school front brake cover?

jeddy

03-26-2015, 02:21 PM

I wonder if you could use a decomp lever off an XR dirtbike (my 1982 XL500 has one, I thought many others did also)? Or if you need something more modern maybe you can use a clutch hand lever from a CRF/YZF and adapt the small hot start lever to be a decomp. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes as far as vendors go, but check out this page to see what models had decomp/hot start levers built into the bars:

http://www.fourstrokesonly.com/perchassy.html

If it was me, I'd look for an ASV lever for an XR650 or XR400. You'd get the nice, folding, hard to break clutch lever along with a thumb operated decomp. Just have to figure out the bracket on the head...

oscarmayer

03-26-2015, 10:26 PM

thanks for the info Jeddy, I will certainly check that out. may be a better option. I'll know more once I start the motor rebuild.

onformula1

03-27-2015, 12:19 AM

Fork/disc guards have not been made for years- Phase Five, Maier, UFO & Acerbis made them...Maybe you could find some NOS ones or a member here may have some tucked away. (The Acerbis were the best)

You could probably adapt Honda XR600 guards like these-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UFO-Plastics-Front-Disc-Cover-White-Honda-XR600R-85-89-/291285773006?hash=item43d1fc2ace&vxp=mtr

Think about hard anodizing the fork sliders they won't be blue, but last much longer & look trick.

userj8670

03-27-2015, 02:32 AM

Usually if you order 10 (if memory serves me) maier will repop a mold. I am very confident you could easily sell the remaining 9 on the forum...I have a set for my 350x...mind you they are used but would be willing to send them in to make a mold - but I am sure someone out there has a nos set for a better example.

manbearpig

03-27-2015, 09:30 AM

the less stuff you have on your bike that can rattle or fall off, the better. guard or no guard, if you hit something hard enough, and you WILL in baja, any plastic "guard" will be useless. stick with the basics: large fuel capacity, proper cooling, long travel, and good tires. do LOTS of R&D, dont worry about looks as much as function of all your components. buy new and buy two.

bkm

03-27-2015, 09:51 AM

Ditch the guard idea. Riding in the harsh surroundings of a desert, they will hold in debris and grind down everything underneath them. They have their place on garage queens and that's about it.

oscarmayer

03-28-2015, 10:12 AM

Ok thanks for the info bkm. Sounds defiantly like you know from experience. I will take your word on it.

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oscarmayer

03-28-2015, 10:14 AM

Thanks manbearpig, I am defiantly buying 2 of everything and defiantly building for dependability. Trying to find a longer travel is not easy for an old trike.

This project is defiantly a whole new learning expirence for me. I built drag, mx, cx and putter trikes but this is my first go at a Baja build like this.

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manbearpig

03-28-2015, 11:02 AM

Thanks manbearpig, I am defiantly buying 2 of everything and defiantly building for dependability. Trying to find a longer travel is not easy for an old trike.

Do your research and send some emails to suspension companies. you'll be able to find something

See you in Ensenada 2016 ;-)

beets442

03-28-2015, 03:20 PM

Sounds like a very cool project.Are you going to run a larger oil cooler or the dual set up?
I almost burned up my motor running through a section of huge rocks and root balls the size of cypress trees where I couldn't get out of 1 and 2nd gear for 7-9 miles, had to stop and let her cool down while about 5 miles in.
Good Luck,update and let bus know how you did.

oscarmayer

03-29-2015, 09:21 AM

Running a 3-4Xs larger cooler. That should handle it well. I could even install 2 if I did it right.

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userj8670

03-29-2015, 12:36 PM

Where do you find a bigger cooler?

Dirtcrasher

03-29-2015, 04:27 PM

Axis makes a great dual spring, dual adjustment for just about anything.

Yours is a straight mount, mine is a linkage with the 450R rear end on it.

Pricey, but I'm getting one.....

oscarmayer

03-29-2015, 10:41 PM

eBay!!! ;). It does. It mount like stock but since this is all mod I going to make a custom mount to bolt to the trike. Let me find you a link to one likened on eBay.

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oscarmayer

03-29-2015, 10:46 PM

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=231507525017

This is just like the one I am using it is 3Xs the stock Cooler size and over double thick. I think 2 of these should do the trick.

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oscarmayer

03-30-2015, 01:54 PM

ok I got some good insight on some things I can modify to help me a lot. Does someone have a good set of 83-84 250R damper rods for the forks? I need a good set we can use when redoing my 350x stuff. I will tell ya'll later what it helps with once I tested and confirmed. Promise., but for now I just need a set. I'll pay for them and shipping. just need them.
I will also post in the for-sale section.

oscarmayer

03-30-2015, 09:46 PM

Anyone? I really need at least 1 set asap.

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oscarmayer

03-31-2015, 08:28 AM

I am at work right now so please excuse my questions. Does someone have the dimensions of the headlight shroud for the 350x? I want to see if I can get an led setup that can replace the stocker light sin their sockets or maybe just cut the center of the shroud and put 1 big one in.

Does someone know the stock Watt rating for the lighting coil tot he headlights? sorry at work and not able to really dig into that right now.

Thanks for the help guys! :)

f76

03-31-2015, 08:56 AM

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?t=173199
Give this thread a look regarding LED lights for your 350x.
Head light dimensions are roughly 4.25" wide by 2.75" tall for each light socket or 9.5" from edge to edge if you remove the center bar. Measurements are rough quick measurements using the edges from the front of shroud.
Stock watt rating is 200W@5,000 rpm.

Just to give a rough idea of the light bar if used for mine:
213414

oscarmayer

03-31-2015, 09:11 AM

Thanks a million f76! your a life saver. now to see what I can piece together. today at work is a slow day so I have a few moments to get things going.

oscarmayer

03-31-2015, 10:48 PM

well, I pulled the trigger on a lighting setup.
(12" light)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310838283496?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and
(reg/rect)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390964958870?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I decided the headlight shroud is not the most important item. I needed it to work. and this works amazing. I got 2. (1 as a spare)

my next big purchase is a Trail Tech Voyager GPS computer. (this one)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191409820806?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This is the battery I plan to purchase for using.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321688433018?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

oscarmayer

04-01-2015, 06:56 PM

Ok some of you wanted to see parts. Here ya go.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/51fb00ce38cf4ef771866cf291141e8d.jpg
This performance xr400 header fits perfect!!!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/b82c9c1cd02ecdc73e0d18b144dc23bb.jpg
Old axle vs. new billet axle.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/2235a81b4efe6d20991ae656b4255622.jpg
Pile of 350x. This is how it sits currently. Waiting for gusset kit.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/cb983b0edc844c0eba02f292f3e32ae6.jpg

New SS front and rear braided brake likes. My colors are white and blue with some polish. These blue lines will look good and function well.

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onformula1

04-02-2015, 01:28 AM

Now you do realize desert racing trikes are typically not pretty. :lol:

What kind of seat are you running? Please say Wax On or Hi Flite tall.

oscarmayer

04-02-2015, 09:19 AM

It is a hiflight, I will take a photo. I got it from a fellow member here for a great deal.

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oscarmayer

04-02-2015, 09:48 PM

News update:
I just got sponsored by Race Tech!!!!!!!! WOOTT!!!!! YAMAHONDAMAN

ok here is what I am discovering:
I have the core parts, but I am finding I need to re-think my rear suspension thoughts, running a stock shock is not good enough for the 1000 miles even with complete redo. here is why.
it only has 7.25" of travel. when doing 50-60 MPh across the desert, I need it to make plenty of cushion. I want to add 2 more inches of travel. after much thought, I am just going to have to get a custom swinger made. The shock can be form an ATV (Honda TRX450r maybe gotta measure) but I need to modify the entire mounting system of the rear shock. here are my thoughts. I can get the rear swinger built with a +2 or+3 in length. Next, I am going to have to have the rear shock mounting made similar to the ATV mounting but come off the bottom section of the swinger.
in the photo below I have highlighted how my son's a-arms work. the shock mounts to the bottom of the a-arm instead of the top. I believe this will work nicely for my 350x longer shock idea as well.
So that being the case, I would like to get my rear singer modified to run that way in order to give me more shock and travel.

86T3

04-02-2015, 10:15 PM

Dirtcrasher put a 450r swingarm on his 350x, that might be an option?

oscarmayer

04-02-2015, 10:17 PM

next, the things I need to start looking at are this. I need a much larger rear brake setup. the stock is not going to last well on a high speed desert race. Does anyone know of a larger dual piston or even quad piston caliper (2 on each side) setup that will work on the 350x? if not, I'll have to do some engineering work to make a bracket that will fit one for my trike. I believe the stock rotor should work fine.

rear master cylinder, I need to get either a new one or rebuild mine. I am inclined to see about looking at a modern one from an ATV and modifying the frame to accept the new master from maybe again a TRX450r. thoughts?

Front brakes, Again looking for bigger caliper and maybe even rotor here. any ideas?

The rear shock is going to be the biggest part. stock parts just cannot handle the task even if redone. they will fare great in the MX or CX track but 1000 miles is a different animal. So I needed to re-think my approach. I'll keep my modified stock swinger for the CX and MX training, but when it gets closer to 2016 Baja time, i'll swap over to the different stuff and run the track a few times to get used to it locally before the Baja. by then I should be good on feel.

Clutch. I posted before. I'm now contacting the clutch manufactures to see whom is willing to work with me to build a billet basket. I contacted Hinson, Barnett, Wiseco, and Rekluse (if recluse would that would be awesome to turn it into a semi-auto. So much easier to ride, race and handle the trike all together.

Swing arm mounting. The Yamaha stuff had problems with the swinger wobbling the hole out where it mounted to the frame. being this is again a long race, I am concerned about my 350x. I am going to find a place to help me build a kit I can weld on to re-enforce the frame there so I will not have those issues. Anyone of any ides?
here is what I just checked out. the Yamaha has a 14mm bolt while the Honda uses a 12mm bolt for the swinger. So that leaves me with 2 options.
1- find a longer high grade bolt to use that is 12mm and have a custom kit made. (good thing is we can sell these to all 350x owners later)
2- since I am having a custom swinger made, I can have them make it with the larger Yamaha front mounting and use the LSracing kit (http://www.lsracing.com/yamaha-raptor-125250-yamaha-raptor-250-oem-chassis-pivot-bolt-gusset-kit.1061.14.atv-utv-racing) and use that setup. I would have to trim the bolt down about 1/2" but that's all I have to do. The advantage is, I can then have them modify the forward tube to also be thinner just enough to use the Yamaha washer grommet sets so it will have smooth bolting to between the frame and swinger. I would also have to drill out the stock hole to 14mm but that's the easy part. That would satisfy the issues I am facing as well as give me a stronger mounting point. That is what I'm more leaning towards, but I will have to see what the swinger manufacturer says.

I am looking to see if Rath cannot modify a set of the 250R nerfs they make to fit my 350X. Lets see what they say. they may already have a set and if they do, I'm excited to use them.

yea my head goes 50million MPH so sorry if I lost ya'll.

let me know ya'll thoughts and ideas. I have t be safe, strong and finish this race in 1 piece. First race is just to finish, if I like it, I'll do it again in 2017 with a goal of placing higher up maybe even on the podium!

oscarmayer

04-02-2015, 10:18 PM

totally awesome!! yes I would love that!!! where is he when I need him?

update:
spent a lot of time searching, I do not think the 350x got the 450r swinger. I believe the 250r was the one that got it.

86T3

04-03-2015, 12:01 AM

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/120180-MY-BUILD-450R-swinger-on-a-350X-and-a-250R-frontend-too-IT-RUNS!!!!

250r front end, 450 rear, 350x middle:beer

userj8670

04-03-2015, 01:26 AM

onformula1

04-03-2015, 03:08 AM

WOW, that's alot to process. :lol:

Here's my 3 scents-

I would blatantly copy KASEY's 350X/1985-86 250R rear suspension set-up, thank him and send him a present!

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/151234-new-dune-edition-3-wheeler/page2?highlight=kasey+builds

I would run a highly modified shock off a 1985-86 250R. These shocks have tons of potential, so does the stock 350X shock but to a lesser degree.

This set-up would be hard to beat. IMHO

Remember some pro's won the Baja 1000 on a almost stock 1981 250r.

Keep in mind with your modified 350X swing arm will have more travel than 7.6" also the shock can be repositioned for more travel as well.

Also, the stock brakes will last 1000 miles, you do pad changes along the way, but if you want more modern brakes the KTM late model Brembo's are the best, but the late model Honda Nissin CR brakes are close. Custom brackets will be needed. Brake fluid is the most important aspect to good brakes in Baja.

Let me know if you need some Baja/endurance help, I have build tons of Kawasaki KX250/KX500/KLR650 bikes over the years for Kawasaki Team Green riders and they won/finished. I know a ATC is not a bike, but they are much closer than some would think. I have built a lot of Honda 250r & 200x trikes for ADRA racing in Arizona they were only about a 100 miles per race, but overall much tougher than Mexico races for there was no down time or long roads to recover. The dynamically unstable guys (Sorry I don't know your names) raced these races with a trike that was fairly stock & close to what they are racing today.

I would not kill yourself over the clutch, a new stock clutch set-up with stock springs and synthetic oil will be fine. I am sure there are some guys on this board that have a lot more than 1000 miles on a stock clutch.

If anything I would be much more worried about the- crank, rod, piston & valves.

The tall desert seat from Hi Flite is great, but make sure it has old or broken in foam, if you cannot break it in before the race you can stab it a couple hundred times with a ice pick or #1 phillips screwdriver your trailprotrailprotrailpro with thank you!

oscarmayer

04-03-2015, 09:11 AM

onformula1,
Thanks a ton for all your help!!! I greatly appreciate it!!! I will talk to Kasey about the rear swinger. Maybe he is willing to make me one for some $$??

I am going to have MD help me with the motor area. first order is business is just getting it running I'll run the stock motor to get a feel of the bike once the chassis is done then build a 2nd motor for the racing stuff. Once the race motor is complete, I'll build the stocker as well. Right now, I think it is far more important I get into the Trike and get seat time before any racing starts. I have never raced a trike myself outside of a couple of sand drags in the early days. That being said, I have chased my crumb snatcher around the MX track, but he tends to laugh at me more trying to keep up with him than anything else. ( dang whippier snappers I tell ya!!!)

I love your suggestions and will be following them for sure!
so I'll get the aftermarket swinger or designs from Kasey and then the shock to get redone. I'll save those parts for half way though the season sometime around September I'll install them to ride them as well and get used to them, but for now, I'll just use the stocker stuff to get a feel for the trike as a whole.

oscarmayer

04-03-2015, 09:13 AM

What's the advantages of the new header versus oem?

1/4" larger in the collectors and 3/8" larger on the main pipe. More flow = more power w/o being too aggressive, Plus with this being a 2-peice header I can adjust the leaning of the header to lay as close or as far back from the head as I want to a point (about 1.5" of adjustment available) This will help with keeping my leg from cooking as well as the head from overheating.

oscarmayer

04-03-2015, 04:04 PM

Post man came again. More goodies!!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/5f721ada7099e76f7b60c35599dc6ce8.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/9a86f486f8f1d4a45f5b9ee56e73a5fe.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/412b68c0ffe04a26eec805a5853eea1b.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ride red #1

04-04-2015, 07:14 PM

1/4" larger in the collectors and 3/8" larger on the main pipe. More flow = more power w/o being too aggressive, Plus with this being a 2-peice header I can adjust the leaning of the header to lay as close or as far back from the head as I want to a point (about 1.5" of adjustment available) This will help with keeping my leg from cooking as well as the head from overheating.
I like the new header. So it is stock for a 400x? Do you know the brand/ Mfg ? Nice build, thanks for sharing.

oscarmayer

04-04-2015, 10:24 PM

Thank you sir! It is a performance header for the XR400r
I will get you the brand is Big Gun. Exhaust is their EVO racing header. Yea I agree that header is trick. I love it!!

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bkm

04-04-2015, 11:00 PM

sledcrazyinCT

04-04-2015, 11:15 PM

Like the header pipe what are your plans for the rest of the exhaust?

onformula1

04-05-2015, 12:41 AM

Like the header pipe what are your plans for the rest of the exhaust?

I think he's going to run a straight exhaust, that way its so loud they close down Mexico to motorsports.

The lack of backpressure should make it fly and make jetting a breeze! :lol:

Really, I am sure he has something trick up his sleeve it seems to be the norm with this Cat.

onformula1

04-05-2015, 01:07 AM

Toaster556

04-05-2015, 01:17 AM

Will you be having the 250R dampening rods modified for better performance? If so, why not go with early (81-83) XR200R dampening rods and tubes? 9.8 inches of travel. I'm sure Race Tech can modify the rods suitably, they were around back when people raced XR200s on a serious level.

oscarmayer

04-05-2015, 09:26 AM

interesting.

Plastics, Once the race is over, they are coming off the bike and being put on the garage/shop wall. I will not even wash them! I'm doing this race for me and all the fellow trikers whom ever wanted to try this. I want to always remember what it was like out there and so once it is done and we get the bike home, plastics will come off. $400 is cheap for a lifetime of memories. (I just really hope I do not disappoint everyone here). I have the following goals.
1. Finish
2. Stay alive
3. Do not disappoint the Triker community
Those are my 3 main goals to be honest.

Muffler? what's that? I love straights!!!!! mymint87
Honestly, I am looing at the XR400 muffler for this build. FMF has a very nice alloy one. I looked at the super trap stuff but they have gotten very expensive over the last couple of years, about $400 with shipping for a muffler. :crazy: The FMF is tunable and is about $280 shipped. So for budget, that will most likely be my move. The 350x mufflers are all too small in the inlet pipe section. So I am forced to go larger. I may even consider a 450R muffler. I will just have to measure and see.

Suspension,
Yes we are going to be using the 83-84 250R damper rods for better suspension and 1-2" of longer travel and better dampening ability. Funny you mentioned the XR stuff. I have a set of XR250R, ATC250R (83-84) on the way here now so we can mic and test what will work best. I am ordering a 2nd set of 83-84 250r stuff for my 2nd suspension set. I am also getting race Tech to do a custom set of .52KG springs over the .48 they offer online. the little extra will make a difference when the rubber hits the road.

Onformula1, All your help is greatly appreciated and it is very welcomed! Thanks a ton sir! :beer

I have had a few people asking me where I come up with the ideas I have.
1. The follow triker Community here is AWESOME!!!!!
2. I am an engineer by trade. Granted it's computers, but still I look at problems and always think of multiple ways to solve it,t hen find the path of least resistance for that resolution.
3. I used to build drag and road race cars as well as drive them, so this Trikes and Quads are simple to me when it comes to the standard core stuff. The hard part is things like the forks or rear shock, for the type of riding I need it designed for. So I turn to the experts. A good engineer knows his limits and knows when to ask for help. There is never any shame in reaching out for assistance. I honestly always welcome it.

oscarmayer

04-06-2015, 06:12 PM

Happy Easter to me!!!
More goodies!!
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/06/ef8cb5f2e817df109355d642cc839025.jpg
These babies are 12 full inches. Go on ask me how I know. I double dog dare you!!
;-)

The electronic controller prices came in sat. So all I need is the battery and my lighting is done!
Still working on Nerfs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

onformula1

04-07-2015, 04:09 AM

Hey, isn't your race like 18 days away?

https://www.norra.com/mexican1000.php

oscarmayer

04-07-2015, 09:23 AM

yea, but I'm not racing the 2015. I'm doing it in 2016. I have a shattered 1" long bone spur in my left elbow and a 1/4" broken in my right. I have to have surgery to remove the pieces and fix my tendons they have been tearing up. So, I am working on building the bike and getting spare stuff together till surgery. once that is done, I will then work on getting into shape and start racing in the Cross-Country series I mentioned in another thread. This will help train me better and give me seat time in a controlled environment like I need. (will be racing Quads with my trike woot!!!!! )
I do wish I was going this year, but I cannot. :(

baja500bound

04-07-2015, 03:37 PM

This is great, I'm glad to see that someone else is stepping into the ring!! :) We've said many times amongst ourselves that we're simply "Proof of concept" this year with a goal to just finish and get the 250r down to Cabo. Hopefully, next year and beyond, we can get enough ATC's entered that it can turn into an actual race.

Although this will be our first time racing an ATC in Baja, we've raced a Motorcycle in the 500 and the 1000 (Finished both) so thankfully we're not going down 100% green. The most important piece of advice is build your bike for reliability and don't focus too much on performance. Keep in mind that the factory Honda 450x (Johnny Campbells team) will average around 55mph for a 1000 mile race. These guys have nothing to do with their day but ride, train and pre-run the course. And, they have a helicopter spotting for them... Since NORRA doesn't allow any pre-running, that moving average will be significantly less in my opinion.

As you're going through your build, keep in mind that you could potentially be on your trike for 8+ hours a day for five days straight. Running a straight pipe or at minimum a really loud pipe could get really old really quick especially on the road sections with road and wind noise. As you go through the days, fatigue will become an issue (especially if you plan to ironman) so be sure to do all that you can to be comfortable. Quiet bikes aren't as cool but as I said fatigue will set in and that's when people start making mistakes.

Racing and riding in Baja is like nothing else, once you've done it once, you'll be forever hooked. The kids come running out of their houses screaming at you like you're some rock star. The locals are amazing and they absolutely love off-road racing. We go down there as often as possible because it really is that amazing.

NORRA has purpose built this race to be fun but, it's still 1300 miles over the span of 5 days. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.. :)

I'll be sure to take plenty of mental notes to pass along and help you with your prep. Keep moving toward your goal, you're doing great!!!

-Craig
Dynamically Unstable Racing
213892

oscarmayer

04-07-2015, 05:55 PM

atc007

04-07-2015, 06:54 PM

The kids come running like you're a rockstar Craig,because you ARE :) Good luck again.

Dirtcrasher

04-07-2015, 06:56 PM

Be aware that Honda welds the XR400 headpipe on the inside and it has to ground out and welded inside. Or it's actually more restricting.

I do not know why they weld it inside. Jason said maybe it was fear of cracking so I had mine hogged out and Tig welded the outside. It's a stainless steel pipe so it's nice. You'll need a small custom midpipe. I had to make one because not 1 muffler shop had a spreader that small (out of 4 of them, crazy)....

baja500bound

04-07-2015, 08:46 PM

Thanks you a ton sir! I am very much appreciative!
I think me and cliff bars will become good friends! ;-)
right now I am focusing on weight loss. I lost 13 lbs already by lowering my intakes and drinking more water. I have cut out most of my junk food. How do you recommend I physically prep for this? I know I will have to be in great shape, so I'm hoping you may have some advice. My thoughts are some muscle, but lots of stamina.

Craig, on a person note, I hope you guys have a great time and be careful. Come back safe and sound sir! all of you!

Do you have a gopro? if not, I can overnight you one to use and you can record the day then copy data at night to a laptop and reformat mem card for next day's ride. that was my plans.

Dropping pounds and gaining stamina is never a bad thing regardless of what you're planning so hats off to you for even thinking about that. We did the Baja 1000 in 2010 (Ensenada to La Paz non-stop) and my thought process while training was, if I wad up the bike, I need to have the strength to pick myself and potentially the bike up and move on. Physical strength and stamina are important but even more importantly is the "Never give up" attitude.

Once again, NORRA is a completely different format than SCORE but, there are still miles and miles of desert around you and you'll most likely be all alone. Go into it with the mentality that nobody is going to help you and getting out of the desert solely depends on your ability to manage the challenge that's in front of you. Regardless of what the challenge may be.

Most of all, have fun!

As for the GoPro, I do have one and I plan to take it. If all goes well and things are coming together, I'll definitely get some footage. If tasks become hectic, the GoPro is the first item that drops on the priority list but, I absolutely plan to get as much footage as possible. Thank you very much for the offer of a loaner, that's very nice of you but we're covered.

I will definitely take notes and pass along any and all lessons learned to help you on your quest to be the first ironman ATC racer in almost 30 years... :) Hammer Down!!!! :)

baja500bound

04-07-2015, 08:49 PM

The kids come running like you're a rockstar Craig,because you ARE :) Good luck again.

Thanks!!! I'll pass along to the other guys that they're Rockstars.. :)

Thanks again for the luck, every little bit helps!! :)

oscarmayer

04-07-2015, 09:32 PM

Thanks man! really 30 years? WOW! I feel very humble and honored even to have this amazing opportunity to bring Trikes back to the racing scene.
Good luck sir!
When are ya'll headed out? Is there anything I can do or supply to help you guys?

Tell the guys this:
First rule of Baja, There is no Baja! ;-) Kick it's (_)_) sir!!!!

onformula1

04-07-2015, 11:45 PM

onformula1

04-07-2015, 11:57 PM

Oscarmayer-

Why don't you start a new tread titled "Things that help in Baja & desert racing" or something like that.

I, baja500bound and many others can help a lot!

Human body tips & tricks, goggle tricks, trike prep, conditioning, food, workouts, ETC.

I am trying not get off topic on your 350X baja race build.

oscarmayer

04-08-2015, 08:43 AM

^ perfect idea! i'll do it!

oscarmayer

04-09-2015, 09:05 PM

I am going to get HRE to build a custom rear swinger.
the tube that goes through the swinger bearings it's OD is 19.96mm the swinger bearing is exactly 20mm giving .04mm which is super thin but perfect.

well I got to thinking. with this being a desert race, I wanted to make sure swinger bearings would last and make it. So I devised to do what I did on my son's racing quad. I am going to have them make the front tube large enough to fill with these bearings all the way across the swinger.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/35434398

This means there will be NO gap anywhere in the swinger where these is not a bearing. there are 2 big positives
1. Sealed bearings!!!! Enough said!!!
2. Stronger bearings and more of them!! so no change of wearing them out probably in my lifetime!!!

the normal tube will fit inside and the bolt will fit inside that like normal as well.
what do ya'll think?

onformula1

04-10-2015, 05:21 AM

oscarmayer

04-10-2015, 08:22 AM

Ok sounds perfect. We will get quality stuff.
Sometimes I go to complicated. The stock bearings can also be done to fill the tube and yes will need to be lubed but a couple of zerks and it will do. Then everything else is normal.

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baja500bound

04-10-2015, 12:57 PM

Yet another item to keep in mind during your build. Granted, these bikes are almost 30 years old but Mexico is littered with junk yards that contain old "Stuff". The idea of finding a part for an ATC is not 100% unrealistic. When you start working with one-off parts, you limit your ability to recover using a local solution. By no means would I suggest you solely depend on finding parts for a 1986 ATC in Mexico but, it's possible.

We elected to remove the extended swing arm and run stock OEM.

Keep it simple. :)

While Pre-running the 500 in 2006, I was riding a 1996 XR600 when I clipped a rock with the front wheel. The spokes were rusted solid and the wheel was pretty tweaked. When we got back to the hotel, we asked one of the Factory Honda guys if they knew anyone that could work on the wheel. They gave us a name and address to a shop that turned out to be some guys garage in his back yard. This guy took a look at the wheel and said "come back tomorrow, it'll be done". Overnight, he replaced the spokes, straightened the wheel the best he could and charged us $28... Absolutely amazing!!

As a side note, there were two Factory Honda race bikes being prepped by this guy in his back yard, I kid you not...

oscarmayer

04-10-2015, 01:08 PM

That is totally awesome sir!!! Gotta love that kind of stuff!!!!
yea, I am trying to make some hard decisions on the swinger. I am tempted to have them use the Raptor 250 front tube section just to use the larger bearings and stringer bolt assembly. the ATV raptor 125-450 all use the exact same stuff. I am going to get 2 of these and I will have bearings stuffed all the way across to handle the pounding.
if I don't do the bigger, I'll end up still doing the bearings all the way across. the 250x has a 2.25" shorter swinger than your R so it definatly needs something slightly longer int he rear for better riding and stability. the 350x rear is 2" more narrower so just to get to what you run I have work to do. :( sucks, but hey it will work.i will have a spare.

onformula1

04-10-2015, 03:02 PM

Heres a tip, bring some cash, smaller bills like tens and twenty strap some on the trike somewhere in a pack and some duct taped inside both boots, US cash in king down there and may be needed for locals help.

I had a buddy that race the baja 1000 in 1986 or 87 on a honda 250r he got a bad flat that he could not fix, it was bad and on the edge of the sidewall two locals showed up and put the trike in a truck and drove him down the road to a farm where they fixed it with some sort of rubber-mudd looking stuff after filling the hole with hay and reeds, unreal, but thats how they fixed their farm tractor tires.
It held to end of the race and he hung it on the shops wall where it held air for years.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-10-2015, 03:58 PM

^ love that!
thanks for he tip sir! I will certainly make sure I do that.

ride red #1

04-10-2015, 08:42 PM

oscarmayer

04-11-2015, 09:29 PM

1983 250R forks came in!!! woot! got my damper tubes!!! now for a 2nd set! I want t0 basically have a complete 2nd 350X almost exactly like the race bike, except with things like normal bars, not a desert seat, non-racing plastics, the reason is it will give me something to pre-ride and get the feel also it will be my parts machine. anything I need outside tires I can rob form that 2nd trike.
the core stuff will all be the same.

I have been watching every Baja movie I can find on the Baja. I watched Dust to glory 4 times now studying the terrain and riding styles.

onformula1

04-11-2015, 11:27 PM

I have been watching every Baja movie I can find on the Baja. I watched Dust to glory 4 times now studying the terrain and riding styles.

Did you watch On Any Sunday 2? Bruce Ogilvie doing 100 mph across the open desert on a Yamaha YZ400 with a helicopter chasing.

Have you seen this documentary?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnlRddEvGpI

oscarmayer

04-12-2015, 04:41 PM

not on Netflix. where can I find them?

onformula1

04-12-2015, 04:51 PM

Amazon has them for purchase

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-12-2015, 05:05 PM

found a cheezy upload but meh, it works.

oscarmayer

04-12-2015, 05:55 PM

Duro is not sponsoring my trike! :) yea!!!
new rubber to come when ready!!
I figure I need 3 sets. 2 for Baja racing and 1 for the spare trike. (these will be an MX style)

oscarmayer

04-13-2015, 09:30 PM

More good news. Picked up 2more sponsors today. IMS and EVS.

Nothing free but nice discounts. And every little bit helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-13-2015, 09:33 PM

Talking with a company about clutch baskets and another place on custom cables.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-14-2015, 05:57 PM

well I did some more thinking and.....
on the drive home from work today I did some thinking. Since I am able to stuff more bearings into the swinger to stabilize it better, why not other places? So I realized the only thing that centered the wheel bearings is a very tiny lip on the inside as a stopper. Well, what if I machined that lip away? and machined down the spacer tube? I could them double the bearings in the front wheels or even triple! then the same for the rear bearing carrier. yea it's aftermarket, BUT, why not add some extra support just for stability and safety sake? SOooooo.... Yep, I'm gonna do just that. I will machine the lips down and the spacer tube and then stuff an extra set or 2 of bearings into the front and rear bearing carriers. Since I will have a spare set of carriers, I will do that to the spare set as well. Bearings are cheap compared to being busted on the side of the road. I'll get photos of the work once it is done. but it looks like it will work nicely.

Does anyone know if the 350X front spindle is the same as the 200X? if they are I have a spare spindle and wheel already I can use.

oscarmayer

04-20-2015, 02:31 PM

oscarmayer

04-20-2015, 05:51 PM

More goodies!!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/20/711eb60031a4f27357a85d1abba3e1d0.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

atc300r

04-20-2015, 07:09 PM

onformula1

04-20-2015, 08:55 PM

More goodies!!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/20/711eb60031a4f27357a85d1abba3e1d0.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Be very careful, I heard those bars flex alot. LOL

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-20-2015, 09:28 PM

I like the aluminum cylinder sleeve idea I was talking to a buddy the other day about the same idea but for a 200x.I believe the newer quads like the 450r run this setup.What about running a newer quad style piston like the ones with hardly any skirt.Does Wossner make 350x pistons.

Great Idea and thanks for the info! I never heard of this brand, but Willing to investigate. Not sure what newer pistons will fit it is not about how big we can go but how stable we can make the machine. That is why I only want a "cleanup" bore/hone and only a slight increase over stock on the compression ratio. I cannot afford the heat of the 12:1 as an air cooled will not like that after a while. I think 10.25:1 is cutting it close but I can make it work with some other things I am doing.

I wish we know of a modern piston that would work, but so far I do not know what will drop in.

onformula1

04-20-2015, 09:34 PM

Wossner pistons are forged, you said you are looking for cast.

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oscarmayer

04-20-2015, 10:22 PM

true. OK. so whom makes a cast piston that will work? what can we do to increase compression slightly?

onformula1

04-21-2015, 03:43 AM

true. OK. so whom makes a cast piston that will work? what can we do to increase compression slightly?

Personally, I would run a stock piston with lower compression- What? Why? Here's my reasoning-

1- You want reliability in a Baja type race.

2- You are giving up about 10 miles per hour on the top end to a ATC 250R.

3- Lower compression, like a stock engine has more top end & top end over rev.

4- Lower compression produces less heat.

5- Lower compression requires less octane, now I am sure you will be bringing good fuel with you, but what if you run out? Or have a broken gas tank from a crash, split fuel line, leaking petcock, semi stuck float, lost the gas tank vent tube, ETC?...Its happens, I know, I survived...Some how!

Here's a couple quick stories for your fun & amusement at my expense. :lol:

Long desert race, lost the gas tank vent hose, didn't know it a few mins later- Big Jim and the Twins were on fire! (burning feeling wise), I look down hose came off, crotch full of fuel- Bad! I stopped at a checkpoint and some cool cats gave me a couple of grape Gatorade bottles (They were out of water) down the riding pants it goes, feeling better now. Miles down the road I now have a bat wings feeling going on, Not fun. Now I am close to the finish everything's great, except the gripper seat feeling sticky seat cover. Boom out of fuel and nobody had any high octane pre-mix, MX type motor running VP 112. Race over.

Same type story- Long Nevada desert race, were the promoters are trying to kill you with the terrain. :lol: rhymes with- CFBitD. Buddy race 2-man my buddy Craig goes first, huge get off! He comes in to pit and doesn't tell me anything, we swap- everythings great I am going all out, pass, pass, pass, humming the theme song to On Any Sunday ll, having a blast! Then I run out of gas, what? can't be. I see a bike up against a tree with a broken chain & chain guide, I steal some fuel from it and were off, pinging like mad, seizure full lock up. Race over. Split tank from crash. (I paid the guy back for the gas)

6- Safety wire the vent hose & run a one way check valve on the vent hose.

7- Use a engine that can run anything, especially in Mexico where you might have to use Mexican Pemex at 80-85 octane, maybe!

If a 200X can win a big desert race a 350X will have enough power!

onformula1

04-21-2015, 04:52 AM

What do you guys think of this idea.
The main killer of an air cooled motor is heat. Being in the desert and air cooled is no fun. even with the 2 large oil coolers I will be running I am thinking that I need to do more.
Here is one of my ideas.
Drill out the cast stock sleeve
have shop make a alloy custom sleeve
install alloy sleeve and weld into cylinder to ensure it does not move
have sleeve Niksile plated and honed to match piston

What do ya'll think?
Next issue is only aftermarket piston is Wiseco right now. I need a higher compression CAST piston VS. the forged one they provide due to expansion with heat issues. Wiseco makes a great piston! But for this particular project a cast will not swell as fast and can take the heat better I am just looking for a 9.5:1 or even a preferred 10:1. Honda only makes a .075 and a .1 larger than stock and stock comp is 8.75-9:1.
Any ideas? I thought about offsetting the OEM piston with having the head chamber welded and re-cut for smaller dome and thus higher compression but the oem piston shapes are flat and this makes for a bad compo due to no control of exit flow from the head during exhaust stroke.

Anyway, any experts have any advice? Would be much appreciated! Right now I am having a hard time finding what I need as far as engine goes. Even full trans bearings are hard to get.

In response to your PM, thanks buddy now my brain hurts! :lol: Thank you, no really I love to try to help.

I don't know about being a expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I like the alloy sleeve idea, but is it needed? I love Nikasil or Nikasil type plating... Best engine invention ever! 2-3 ring sets of rings per piston, no boring, no oversized pistons & rings? You can keep a piston & ring set around in the shop at all times...one size? I love it! I have been a fan for a very long time. (The first Kawasaki plated cylinders were not great, but they got it under control)

Alloy sleeves are press fit. (cold sleeve into hot cylinder) and can be retained by Loctite sleeve retainer #640 if you like.

You don't weld them in, but you could over weld it if you wanted too. Not needed.

I like the cast piston idea, but a forged piston works pretty good in a 4-stroke. Not a fan in a 2-stroke, Woessner's are the best forged piston, IMHO. (No 350X)

Keep the compression low in a desert trike, see previous post.

Keep in mind, you don't hone a Nikasil cylinder (Or you shouldn't) they come ready to run. Nikasil of Nikasil type coatings have carbide particles that have "Peaks" If you hone them you kill the peaks, (Peaks are like a cross hatched iron cylinder when it is bored and honed) They are there for oil retention, increasing the piston/ring life. If you would like to "Deglaze" use real 3M green scotch brite coated with your favorite motor oil. (pre-mix oil for 2-strokes) and polish/clean up by hand. If you feel like honing is necessary, use a aluminum oxide hone. (Less damage to the plating) Remember the plating is very hard from the carbide, held together by the nickel, but is very, very thin.

Reliability is key for a endurance race, if you blow a motor hopefully there is a taco vendor close, with cold beer!

Remember- back in the day 3 wheelers beat the trucks and everything else, starting last, in the dust, with 1/20th of the horsepower.

oscarmayer

04-21-2015, 08:52 AM

^ hahaha that was very entertaining sir! thank you!!!!

ok so Honda it is (just hate going to a .075" over bore instead of a .025" kind of a waste. I was just thinking that a tiny bit more torque would have been nice over the stocker stuff. more steady flat power curve. well maybe we can just make it up with some porting and a very mild cam? again not looking for peak power but long broad power range and so maybe upgrade the valve springs, new stock guides, new valve seats and even new valves? I will remain stock valve size as we need dependability over the long haul. larger valve requires trimming the seat which means less seat material and over 1300 miles at 1 time that could pose an issue under racing conditions. We will get there, just a little at a time.

next thing is seals. the oil seals half are no longer carried by Honda. So I am going to have to piece a set together and carry several sets with me. (thank god for seal #'s on the side. ;) . Same goes with the internal trans bearings.

I was thinking of trying to see about ARP studs in place of the stocker ones (main studs that hold jug and head on). the reason is metal fatigue on the older used studs will have slightly weakened and stretched them over time. I am concerned about blowing a gasket in the desert. If I get new ARPs I can not only apply a couple more inch pounds over stock, but it will hold tight and not stretch like the used stockers. Your thoughts? ($250-$350 upgrade)

good to know on the alloy sleeves. I like the idea and if you agree, I think that is the direction I want to go with. Whom do you recommend I get with to do the alloy sleeving job? I am more than certain LA sleeve would be willing to assist, but I wanted your thoughts.

oscarmayer

04-21-2015, 12:17 PM

Good news! More goodies!!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/21/0b477cec750d13c5f36f1ae837a0f608.jpg
New billet lsracing spindels!

Also LASleeve has agreed to work with me on this project and do the alloy sleeving at a discount!!! Awesome sauce !!!!!!'n

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

onformula1

04-22-2015, 01:54 AM

Nice hubs,,,Quad boy. :lol: just playing with you.

I have used LA Sleeve many times, I have never had a problem, most west coast guys use them.

If it doesn't work out let me know there are a few others that do great work too.

I don't see any problem with the bigger piston, you will get a bit more compression over stock and un shroud the valves a bit.

ARP makes great products, if you go that route make sure to get there assembly lube that goes under the nuts.

I would run stock torque specs, I have known a few guys that have over torqued heads and warped them.

oscarmayer

04-22-2015, 08:36 AM

^ good to know. ok cool.
LA is giving me a pretty killer deal on the custom sleeving, so it will be cool.

atc300r

04-22-2015, 09:07 AM

My thought on the flat/pancake style piston is there should be less friction . Im not sure if on from another quad aor dirtbike would fit. Or if you could find somewhere to have some made.Just a thought. I was also thinking if you get a piston in this style for a 200x. 214906 214907

oscarmayer

04-22-2015, 09:17 AM

yea it would certainly be a lot less friction. good question on if a modern one fits the 350x.
I will investigate.

oscarmayer

04-22-2015, 09:20 PM

More goodies. These are for when I get it completed and I need to practice on the MX track.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/22/775890c8040433c2120248581eba4aaa.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

beets442

04-22-2015, 10:43 PM

This is a piston (wossner)made for more lubrication and lightened.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/WossnerpistonH2_zps7bq8ggvj.jpg
Sorry was thinking/drinkin of Dunlaps bike back in the day.

onformula1

04-23-2015, 03:17 AM

This is a piston (wossner)made for more lubrication and lightened.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/WossnerpistonH2_zps7bq8ggvj.jpg

FYI- That's a 2-stroke piston, Mike has a four stroke

onformula1

04-23-2015, 03:19 AM

oscarmayer

04-23-2015, 12:57 PM

yea good for sideways fun!!!

oscarmayer

04-24-2015, 08:44 AM

So I got most of the farm gusset kit tacked on. Just waiting for Bill to get me some more photos on the tube enforcement area. I plan on doing it different. His cuts off stock engine mount then welds back on later. I plan to not cut it of and work around the mount.

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oscarmayer

04-28-2015, 08:09 PM

Update:
Rebuilt both brake calipers. They now operate like butter!!
And I added more holes to the stock front rotor. Let me know what us think. I used some sand paper to take the ruff edges off the holes so it is now smooth and flat like it should be and ready for use.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/28/146526239fe0401cba5cf4a39da4302d.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

onformula1

04-29-2015, 04:06 AM

oscarmayer

04-29-2015, 09:32 AM

Tanks! :) you should se what it would have looked like it if was actually a "blank" ;) I would have laid out one hell of a design. when we used to build our own road-race rotors for the nissans, I was the guy doing the "weird rotor" patterns and for some reason people could not figure out why my car stopped better and did not overheat as bad the rotors.

it's all in the pattern. ;) "That's what she said!"

for the record, the floor is clean. those dam plastic floor tiles the previous owner put down do nothing but get in my way. argh!!! they look nice new, but after being used for welding, grinding and may other things they get ruined asap. so they look like garbage now. :( Sucks!!!! I am probably gonna take out the "work shop" section to stop this.

oscarmayer

04-29-2015, 02:43 PM

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29/6cbecc44c6c33f697a7fd9e4da973b60.jpg

2nd front rotor arrived!! Just need to drill and have surfaced a tiny bit but in excellent shape!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

04-29-2015, 11:03 PM

Here it is drilled and ready for a slight surfacing. Like .0025

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29/bece9ae25aed4a451fe39578f2cc516a.jpg

oscarmayer

05-01-2015, 11:00 PM

so I was drilling the rear rotor to match the fronts. went through 6 bits and then after I was cleaning up did I discover it was warped/bent in a spit. like something hit it. UGH!!!! new rear rotor time..

oscarmayer

05-02-2015, 11:23 PM

Got my front fender supports in!! And tons of wheel bearings and rear pads!!
I even got some new ebc front pads. Misc parts came in as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

05-08-2015, 11:07 PM

More goodies!!!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/08/303bf5f216af9934dbe2bbd998eb29c8.jpg

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onformula1

05-09-2015, 04:02 AM

That rotor is tiny, maybe you should go bigger?... :lol:

Those levers are nice, planning on your next soil sample?... :lol:

oscarmayer

05-09-2015, 08:51 AM

Haha
Thanks. Those levers are way heavy duty and super nice. I used to think AVS were it till a vender sent these to me as a free upgrade for the Baka project. These are way nicer!

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BOB MARLIN

05-09-2015, 09:15 AM

I am not a racer. But I am a 350x nut. Just thought I would bring up a few things that I know based on personal real experience on my x's.

DO NOT USE A "GRIPPER" TYPE SEAT COVER !. After a couple of hours in the saddle you will not have a butt hole left !. They are great for dirt bikes, but your butt has to move on an ATC to control it and you will have monkey butt big time.

I have a loud exhaust on one of my 350's. After a couple hours my ears hurt so bad I don't want do go near it for the rest of the day. For an endurance race I would think rider comfort is important. That mean your ears too.

Don't worry about the decomp. If the stock set up is still working thats great, but Its really not needed unless you have a Goki, which I'm sure you don't. The 350x does have a little "routine" you have to go through to get it to start easy, once you learn it they start very easy.

The stock suspension can be tuned to work very well without going through a bunch of fabrication that might not hold up anyway. The frames on these things aren't all that strong to begin with, adding a linked rear end has been done but major frame mods must be done correctly. A long, long race is going to find every weak link.

Go with Honda bearings. All Balls are a poor choice, At least in my experience.

The 10.25:1 piston adds a fair amount of grunt the these engines. Any higher you will be looking for race gas in the desert.

The stock brakes work well and last for decades. The only problem is the rear master is not available anymore and rebuild kits are almost impossible to find. A 3rd gen 250R master with the mounting screw threads drilled out is a direct replacement for a spare.

Handle bars with a cross bar is the first thing your face is going to hit when you go over the bars. It's not a bike. You sit way lower on an ATC.

A good thick rear skid plate will save you rotor, chain and sprocket.

There are tire repair kits that have plugs and little co2 bottles all in one little pouch. They are life savers.

Again, these are all based on real world, in the seat experience.

Good luck!

oscarmayer

05-10-2015, 09:55 AM

Thanks bob. We also determined gripper was bad. Stock suspension will not hold up well in a Baka race so we have to modify it. The rocks and. ruts will destroy it is the issue. You make some good points on stuff. Thanks.

Anti-monkey butt here!!!

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oscarmayer

05-12-2015, 05:18 PM

a ton has happened since last post. We are going to use the 86 ATC250R rear assembly in a custom 350X +3 swinger. so it will bolt on like normal, and use the 86 250r bearing carrier, axle, hubs, brake assembly, ETC. this gives me the ability to access more available parts and more easily usable.
now the 350x stuff i purchased.... (i have a 2nd project now it will be used for. :P)

Jmoozy27

05-12-2015, 06:39 PM

Aha, is that where all the 200x talk started??? :shiftyeyes:

oscarmayer

05-12-2015, 08:29 PM

Not sayin. :p

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oscarmayer

05-13-2015, 12:15 PM

lets jsut say, i have an extended 350x swinger/axle, and billet bearing carrier that needs a home. ;)

oscarmayer

05-16-2015, 06:39 PM

More goodies!!
Flex rebuild kit came on for rebuilding the flex bars.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/16/ba344b7200ed96201dc2e2b97994acd9.jpg

Also got the Scott's steering stabilizer in.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/16/5c0174cfb5795de008ff2e5242c09eed.jpg

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oscarmayer

05-26-2015, 01:26 PM

Update!
Got a takeout motor!!! Now to tear apart and polish and the trans set and clutch basket assemblies. Then reassembly with custom cylinder and piston with performance head.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/158d2a63d293147259bc36397a3c35f7.jpg

Finished gusset kit now to add my personal touches!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/bf8c67c38e679b681d7ac19a28f3cd5f.jpg

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onformula1

05-26-2015, 03:34 PM

That engine is very clean, good score

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Dirtcrasher

05-26-2015, 04:19 PM

^ yup. All 5 of mine had scratches all over them but only 1 with cut wires. Yours looks super clean....

6speedthumper

05-26-2015, 05:59 PM

Looking good. You did finish welding in those gussets 100%, right? lol

oscarmayer

05-27-2015, 09:54 AM

Thanks DC yea I am pretty stoked about the engine.

6speed, yup, I always just "tack" everything first till I have everything 100% the way I want it and then I do a final welding on it . I guess I shoulda said the gusset kit is finally 100% in place but "tacked" till I finish everything else. I will have a lot more of the frame done by the end of the weekend with my own additions. so I am figuring by end of next week I could be dropping it off to the blaster's that is "IF" I don't change my mind on something else. LOL always tuff but once it goes to the baster that's it, no more design changes.

this Trike will be about 90% custom when done. Even the harness and electrics will be custom modified for this thing. so it's turning into a pretty big project but I love it!!!!

dman10

05-28-2015, 08:34 PM

Let me have your address so I can come steal that motor...

This is your 24 hour notice...

oscarmayer

05-28-2015, 08:53 PM

LoL

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onformula1

05-28-2015, 09:01 PM

Let me have your address so I can come steal that motor...

This is your 24 hour notice...
Mike has 350x engines stacked like cord wood.

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oscarmayer

05-29-2015, 09:59 AM

^ so true!!! well for racing always gotta have a spare!

KASEY

05-30-2015, 09:49 PM

350x with 250r prolink gussets,, maybe you might want to add some? and seriously take your welding more seriously... evem tacking over the paint? and what looks to be gassless wire,, all the fanciest gadgets in the world won't help when your frame is junk out in the middle of nowhere...

216550216551

oscarmayer

05-31-2015, 04:21 PM

hey Kasey, If it makes ya feel any better, i tacked it with gassless but will be using the gas to weld it fully. i have a different design that yours. mine will have a complete bottom 1/8" steel plate welded that will help re-enforce the entire bottom of the chassis. There re even areas, that I think need to be addressed outside of the standard stuff.
don't worry care IS being taken care of for welding and fitment of everything. being stuff in the middle of no-where is not our goal, so all welding and supports will be doe with that in mind.
I do appreciate the input and will take it to heart. I may just for the sake of it, add in a cross par and T off form the rear bracket to this cross bar instead of 2 like you have. but I will do that after i weld on the plate steel and determine from there if I need it. I'm not using the 250R or TRX swinger, I am getting a custom 350X swinger done with a 250R rear support mount attached for the 250 bearing carrier and 250R brake assembly. this allows for more parts availability at the same time allows me to use good custom mounting points I developed. along with longer swinger bolts to compensate. Photos will be taken and a "kit" will be later available for anyone to use as needed. the kit can be used for any ATC with a 350x/250r mount style including the ATCs that use the same bolt style.

Hope this helps ease some of your concerns.

barnett468

06-05-2015, 01:42 AM

.
wow, ok, lots of stuff . . here’s part of my .02 cents if you want it and they are opinions/suggestions only . . sorry if some of this has been mentioned already . . this is also very incomplete and I haven’t read your entire thread yet.

PISTON

you can get a custom made one from some places . . you want a high silicone forged piston made from 4032 aluminum not 2618 . . the 4032 material does not “swell” like the 2618 does . . je can possibly custom make one . . I would not run a super short skirt one for your app . . call them . . do not email.

Shindy makes cast pistons but not for your bike . . they are made in japan by the same mfg that honda uses.

http://www.jepistons.com/

http://rosspistons.com/products/index.php#cid=4&acc_id=0&type_id=14&vehicle_id=0

weisco has the 10.25:1 as another mentioned . . if you buy one get the armor glide coating or send it out to be coated . . they can also make a custom piston and since they have the raw slug in your size they can make the compression height whatever you want and the compression whatever you want . . so it will be a bit cheaper than the others but I would be hesitant to use it if it is not a 4032 piston.

http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx

wossner as another mentioned

http://www.wossnerpistons.com/products/#&&/wEXAQUZY29uVG9wTGVmdF9jdGwwMV9sbmtCcmFuZAWFAS9tb2R lL2ZpbHRlcj9maXRtZW50LWNhdGVnb3J5LWlkPTY3YjliYzk2L TQ0ZTMtZTAxMS05NjNiLTAwMGMyOTI5NjY1NiZmaXRtZW50LWN hdGVnb3J5LW5hbWU9YXR2LS0tYW5kLS0tdXR2JnNvcnQ9bmFtZ SZvcmRlcj1hc2NlbmRpbmftpWldGp2jkDivhxkRX+L1NckrEg= =

http://www.ariaspistons.com/

CYLINDER SLEEVE

These guys have made sleeves for a bazillion years.

http://www.lasleeve.com/street-v-twin-products/pistons-and-components

NIKASIL CYLINDER

Bad idea

BORING CYLINDER

Bore it as little as possible and if you use good rings, you can have it platea honed . . this will reduce break in time and friction . . but you must break the rings in properly if you use this method.

PISTON RINGS

Plasma moly if they are available.

COMPRESSION

As mentioned, it depends on your fuel selection . . race gas runs cooler than pump gas.

Your compression is also dependent on your cam selection . . it’s complicated and its really based on dynamic compression nit static uncorrected compression, but in general, the later the intake valve closes, the more compression you need.

Also, the higher the elevation, the lower your compression will be . . you loose around 5 psi of cylinder cranking pressure for every 1000 foot increase in elevation.

Just a guestimate of a decent compression that you can get away with on straight 91 octane when the thing is hot is 10.25 . . obviously 9.7 would give you some margin but you shouldn’t need it if you do everything else right.

OCTANE BOOSTER

You can take some with you if you want . . the torco is the most popular and will raise premium gas by around 2 points . . not a lot but every bit helps

CYLINDER HEAD MOD TO IMPROVE EXHAUST EVACUATION

I wouldn’t do it . . keep it simple . . plus it’s a waste of time . . the proper exhaust works a little like a vacuum and sucks it out from a process called scavenging.

EXHAUST PIPE SIZE

I thought I read you want to increase the od of both of the pipes by 3/8” on a 350 cc engine . . if this is the case, it’s a bad idea because you will lose engine scavenging guaranteed . . you can do a simple test . . run your bike just the way it is then run it with no exhaust at all . . the effect will be similar but more dramatic this way..

MUFFLER

In general, a megaphone or reverse megaphone will get you a wider power band than straight pipes to a straight silencer.

IGNITION TIMING, CARBURETION, DYNO

Put the bike on a dyno then set it for the most hp at wot then set it for the coolest engine temp at wot . . your range will probably be somewhere between the two numbers if they don’t come out identical . . failure to do this is a very, very bad idea . . incorrect timing can easily cause your engine to overheat.

Jet the bike for the best setting and take engine tempos then go up 2 sizes on the main and take engine temps . . the richer jetting should produce less hp but a cooler engine . . I would want the cooler engine if it only costs me 3 hp.

barnett468

06-05-2015, 02:41 AM

.
ENGINE COOLING

Other than an oil cooler which I know you are going to get, the very best thing you can on your engine is extend the width of ALL the fins on your cylinder and head . . this is the most commonly overlooked area when building an air cooled desert engine but along with an oil cooler, it is the most important.

simply get some aluminum strip metal around 3/4” wide and the same thickness as the existing fins and start from either end and weld it on.

continuing the fin around the corners is not that important, so you can just weld it to the sides and front and leave a gap in the corners. Then radius the edges all at time same time after its welded.

If the sides of the fins have a slight curve, it will make it difficult to weld a piece on that is the full length of the fins, so you can and them flat on a big belt sander.

You can also weld several 1” wide strips on the fins with a 1/2” gap between then to avoid the need to sand the cylinder but this wont cool quite as well.

barnett468

06-05-2015, 04:02 AM

.
ENGINE COOLING

Strip the paint from the head and cylinder and apply a thermal dispersant . . It will cool better and faster than bare metal or regular engine paint.

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/race-coating-descriptions/bbe-heat-emitting-coating/

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-performance/disperse.html

SWING ARM BEARINGS

The ball bearings you posted are chinese so I wouldn't use them plus ball bearings are a bad choice for this app . . also, you only need bearings on the end . . running bearings in the center will add from very little to absolutely no additional strength or benefit but it won't hurt providing the inside of your tube is straight to within approximately .005".

There are a few different options . . these are just a few.

Use double lip external seals

Use the bigger axle you talked about.

Use a 1 1/2” wide drawn cup needle bearing on each side with a long inner collar like the factory one.

Use two 3/4” wide drawn cup needle bearings drawn on each side with a long inner collar like the factory one.

Use a 1 1/2” wide big roller needle bearing with the long inner collar or hardened swing arm bolt.

Use two 3/4” wide big roller bearings with the long inner collar or hardened swing arm bolt.

Use a 1 1/2” wide journal roller bearing with a non hardened or hardened swing arm bolt.

Use two 3/4” journal bearings with a non hardened or hardened swing arm bolt.

http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Bearings.htm

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSn4LUrOd2CmgJL91H4WmnyaicKUnoWz zySXL0kfgwGAzL8bsTiRA

http://www.rbceshop.com/xcart/product.php?productid=2126

http://www.rbceshop.com/xcart/images/P/PTJ.jpg

oscarmayer

06-06-2015, 01:30 PM

Thanks a ton for the info! Will see what we can do to fit it.

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barnett468

06-06-2015, 08:41 PM

.
Here are a few more fun things you can do if you want . . My apologies if you already know some of this.

STAINLESS SCREWS

Don’t use them unless they have lock nuts on them, they can loosen easier than non stainless

NUTS

Grade 8 nylock nuts.

WASHERS

Grade .

BOLT GRADE

Use grade 8 EVERYWHERE because they will stretch less when tightened, plus you can tighten them more than grade 5.

BOLT QUALITY

In general, most hardware at hardware stores is in fact from China. AND their hardness ratings are FAR more generous than they actually are, ie in most cases, a grade 5 Chinese bolt, is in fact, around grade 3 and so on down the line.

I would purchase then from an industrial hardware supply store if possible.

THREAD PITCH

Use fine thread for all bolts that use a nut.

ENGINE HARDWARE

Use blue loctite on everything except the head nuts, ie, clutch cover screws, carb boot studs and nuts, stator cover screws, clutch pressure plate bolts.

Use red loctite on the stator bolt and possibly on the clutch hub nut even though it has a lock tab.

EXHAUST STUDS AND NUTS

Ok, these WILL come loose I absolutely, positively, GUARANTEE you . . There are a few ways to approach this, below are just a couple . . If you do this, they will NOT come loose.

1. install helicoils in the head and don’t forget to set them so they are 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn below the surface, but im sure you’ve installed plenty of them before.

2. use flanged studs . . grade 8 is best . . fine thread on both ends is best . . coarse for the head and fine for the nuts is next best . . if you can’t find grade 8 double fine, I would make them . . because of the flange, coarse for the heads is ok because they can be torqued to around 18 ft lbs if you use the large flange studs . . install studs with ultra high temp red loctite.

3. if you use large flange studs, put a small radius in the top of the helicoil hole after you drill it but before you tap it . . this will prevent the stud from trying to squish the edge the hole in.

4. use grade 8 lock washers and grade 8 swedge nuts and ultra high temp red loctite.

5. Use soft solid aluminum gaskets for the exhaust if you can find them . . if not

650 degree continuous red loctite . . this price is less than amazon.

http://www.industrialproductsdirect.com/index.php/2620-high-temp-high-strength-threadlocker-100868866-loctite.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=CPajrLaV_MUCFY0YHwod9xEASw

you will have to plunge the head for the flange . . it is better to use a mill for this but if you now how to machine parts, you could get away with a cutter and a drill if you are careful . . the area where the flange seats should be as flat and square to the bolt/stud hole as possible . . make it so the flange is as flush to the surface as possible . . if it sticks up a little its ok.

This is what some look like . . others have a smaller flange . . the big flange is much better.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-03144?seid=srese1&gclid=CO6eudGA_MUCFckYHwodAhQAlw
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/RNB-03144_LC_ml.jpg

These are small flange 8 mm x 38 mm

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-1020-03109.aspx?origin=keyword

these are an example of a poor quality small flange stud . . i prefer not to use the small shoulder ones for your app.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//N3137/large/22142146_dag_675097_pri_larg.jpg

you do NOT, NOT, NOT want to use these due to the large radius on the non threaded portion b ecause they can not be totqued as much as the large glange ones and they will mess up the top of the threads.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/RNB-675-202_EU_ml.jpg

You can buy the tools to drill the nuts and bolts with.

http://www.gunson.co.uk/items/large/77118_Insitu.jpg

http://www.gunson.co.uk/items/large/77080_Bolt_Insitu_grey.jpg

It would look similar to this when you are done but with nuts instead of bolts.

http://www253.pair.com/jfazli/aerospace/AN121529.jpg

http://www.b15u.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45269&d=1364782816

TORQUE

With the exception of engine bolts, or bolts that thread into aluminum, use 8 – 10% more torque on them so do that with all the fasteners.

AXLE NUT

It WILL come loose so weld the sob to the axle . . if you don’t really want to do that use a nylock nut or swedge [jam] nut AND some Loctite, or use the nylock or jam nut then drill it and safety wire it or drill thru the bolt and nut and install a cotter pin that is slightly smaller than the hole.

BOLT QUALITY

In general, most hardware at hardware stores is in fact from China. AND their hardness ratings are FAR more generous than they actually are, ie in most cases, a grade 5 Chinese bolt, is in fact, around grade 3 and so on down the line . . I would purchase then from an industrial hardware supply store if possible.

US VS NON US BOLT GRADING

Japanese bolts use a different grading system so buy 10.9 if you use metric.

. . .Grades

METRIC .US
. 4.6 . Grade 1
. 4.8 . Grade 1
. 4.8 . Grade 2
. 8.8 . Grade 5
. 9.8 . 9% Stronger than us grade 5 and japan grade 8.8
10.9 . Grade 8
11.9 . NONE
12.9 . ASTM A574
.

barnett468

06-06-2015, 11:00 PM

.
edit . . i have no edit button.

LOCTITE

I would use blue loctite on all other bolts and nuts.

HANDLEBAR GRIPS

They WILL come loose or off . . I rough the bars up with 180 sandpaper or a rough file, then clean them with lacquer thinner or acetone . . I wrap some 180 sandpaper around a 10” long 1/2”pipe then put it inside the grips to rough them up a little inside, then I wash them with warm dish soap and water, then rinse them really well.

Put a thin layer of flammable yellow contact glue on the bars and inside the grips then have someone put their hand over the open end of the bars and I lightly press the grip against the end of the bars . . then I take a non osha approved rubber tipped air nozzle connected to a hose that has a water filter and press the tip against the hole in the end of the grip . . I then grab the grip like I would when in riding and blow air into it and push it on while keeping the nozzle pressed firmly against the grip.

Then I put two turns of safety wire on each end plus one in the middle . . grab both ends of the safety wire with a pair of small vise grips and pull firmly on the vice grips as you move them up and down around 1” . . this will tighten them . . if you don’t do this and just twist the wire to tighten it, it usually doesn’t work as well . . after you this just pull the vise grips as you twist the wire.

Cut the twisted end of the wire so it is around 1/4” long, then push it flat, parallel to the loop . . use a small blade screw driver and try to push the very end of it under the loop slightly if you can.

There is regular grip glue you can also use buy I never had much luck with it, however, there may be some better stuff out there now.

HANDLE BARS

They WILL come loose…always do . . helicoil the triple tree.

HANDLE BAR VIBRATION

It’s a LOOOONG race . . you might consider a handle bar anti vibration mod . . they sell a rubber insulator kit for the mounts on some of the bikes.

These guys sell one type but there are others.

http://www.houser-racing.com/products/view/atv-handle-bar-clamp-anti-vibration-standard-78-and-oversized-1-18

ok, now, you can also do a few different things to the bars themselves to reduce the vibration . . I had to do this on some of the klt bikes at kawi even though they had a counterbalance because they vibrated a LOT . . what we did there was simply install solid steel slugs maybe around 2 1/2” inches long in the end of the bars then welded them in . . from what I remember, this reduce the vibration by at least 50% which is a huge affect for such a simple fix . . there are a few other things out there but I haven’t tried any of them . . one guy even simply filled his bars with bb’s but if you try this, o would use large lead shot which you can get from a gun supply store because the lead will dampen more than the steel bb’s .

These are the king of anti vibration inserts

http://www.vibranator.com/

http://www.vibranator.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=30

here’s some others if the ones above don’t fit, these might.

http://www.motosport.com/product?psreferrer=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.googlead services.com%252Fpagead%252Faclk%253Fsa%253DL%2526 ai%253DCXw2qI6lzVebkAYajftXagtgB6fzruQa5p_GH8AHR5-TtrgIIBhACKAhgycb6hsijkBmgAZGitP0DyAEHqgQmT9AxdRR-lH74EOoif8lE4N7lHIIL3x1-Vigf5pVhP78xGbXfUYLABQWIBgGgBiaAB9fdywKQBwOoB6a-G6gHk8IbqAeUwhvYBwHgEuqfkdimpNP4dw%2526ohost%253Dw ww.google.com%2526cid%253D5Gi6C8-RRRw6FVhQJMV3OPOXLJKqWmLnLz7yycVCyZLTAVE%2526sig%2 53DAOD64_3Y6CwmxBzHvKCgJF3lMY-Did0kWA%2526ctype%253D5%2526clui%253D5%2526rct%253 Dj%2526q%253D%2526ved%253D0CIsBEPQO%2526adurl%253D http%253A%252F%252Fwww.rkdms.com%252Fredirect%2525 3Fc%25253D1409984721%252526en%25253D27%252526cl%25 253D500%252526u%25253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%25252 52Fwww.motosport.com%2525252Fad%2525252F%2525253Fc ode%2525253DSS-M-G-P-NA-PLA-DIRT%25252526key%2525253DFasst-Company-AntiVibration-Inserts%25252526adpos%2525253D1o2%25252526creative %2525253D64385813905%25252526device%2525253Dc%2525 2526matchtype%2525253D%25252526network%2525253Dg&pssource=true&segment=badger&key=Fasst-Company-AntiVibration-Inserts&adpos=1o2&creative=64385813905&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CNHLl9DB_MUCFUs6gQodVhwAEQ

check out this video, this guy has tried most mods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaCggwGz3ZQ

HANDLE BAR CROSS BRACE

This will increase vibration but usually keeps the bars from getting bent beyond use in a bad crash which of course is only helpful if you are still capable of riding after that . . yes I know this for a FACT, lol.

HANDLEBAR MATERIAL

I would suggest plain old mild steel . . the aluminum ones typically vibrate more plus they typically bend more in a crash once they start to bend . . they used to make solid aluminum bars without a cross brace also . . they bend less in a crash than the hollow aluminum ones do . . eare more I used them on my 250 bultaco pursing before . . you can add a clamp on cross brace of you want.

HANDLE BAR SHAPE

I saw some talk about thicker foam on the seat . . comfort is very important in any race, especially an 8 hour long one, and I am incredibly picky about the shape of the bars I use on my race bike . . others may not be but I would suggest using a shape that you are comfortable with meaning, I wouldn’t be trying out a shape that is very far from what im used to, especially in a long race.

CHROME HARDWARE

Just like the stainless…don’t use it

barnett468

06-07-2015, 04:07 AM

.
SWING ARM BOLT HOLE IN FRAME

I saw you ask what could be done to keep it from ovaling out . . one of the best things you can do is to keep the bolt tight . . the axle and rear carrier bolts kept coming loose on the 84 tecate prototype and I did a bolt test for several days until we fixed them so I know this can happen even if you torque them to spec . . the other is simply install a thick washer and just put three or four 1/4” long tack welds on it or weld it all the way around but if you weld it all the way around and ever need to remove it to replace it or whatever, you can’t.

don’t use a regular grade 8 washer . . you need a dress or a machined flat washer . . they are exactly the same thing . . they are fully machined from round stock . . you need this type because the surfaces where the bolt head and nut tighten on are perfectly flat . . if you use a stamped washer, these surfaces will not be flat which can make it easier for the nut to loosen . . they need to be at least 3/16” thick . . 5/16” is tha absolute maximum I would get them . . keep in mind, you already have washers/collars on the frame that the bolt goes thryu.

they must be either chromoly, or case hardened, or through hardened . . unfortunately, you will not find these at home depot or wallymart, but you can sometimes find them on ebay or an industrial hardware store.

I would probably put them on the bolt then tighten it a little then well them

These are Case [surface] hardened and it looks like they are machined but it doesn’t say, so call for info if you plan on buying these . . they are only $1.58 each . . fastenall also sells them

http://www.te-co.com/Heavy+Duty+Hardened+Flat+Washers-C-PG1062-C-.aspx

http://www.te-co.com/Images/tooling-components/heavy-duty-hardened-flat-washers.jpg
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barnett468

06-07-2015, 08:40 PM

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In case you weren’t aware, there is a standardized method of rating a battery but not all the mfg’s of lithium batteries adhere to it, which means that the amp hour rating on a lithium battery can actually be less than it appears to be when compared to one that has been rated using the standardized method.

The discharge rate of batteries is not linear . . The greater the amp draw, the less capacity the battery has, therefore, the best way to determine exactly what the true amp hour rating is on a battery that you are unfamiliar with is to contact the mfg and ask what the batteries discharge rate is . . This will give you the actual rate of discharge at different amp draws.

The battery you are interested in only has 4 cells and 120 cca and 6 amp hours . . This the lowest powered battery that company makes . . I for one would not go into a 12 hour long, 1000k desert race with no repair shops or parts stores in sight where lots of the race will likely be in the dark, running a power eating headlite, because if for some reason the charging system fails, your running directly off of the battery . . If your stator coil that fires the battery goes dead, I guess it would then run off of the battery also if you had it wired to do that.

Since the lithium batteries are so light, even if you get the full size one, it still only weighs around 5 lbs vs 8 – 9 lbs for the standard lead/acid type, and since I would hate to ruin my race after all the time and money I put into it if I drain my battery for whatever reason, I would prefer a margin of safety . . For this reason, I would get a 12 cell but even an 8 cell will give you twice as much power for much less than twice the price . . The ytz7-8 battery has twice the power and 33% more amp hours than the one you posted and is the same size and weight, but the battery posts are reversed.

Also, I would run more than just that 0 little lite you have so this would be another reason to use a bigger battery.

All these batteries should fit your battery box.

4 cell . 120 cca . 6 ah . 4.25 x 1.25 x 3.75 high . 1 lb . $119.00 . . This is the one you posted.
http://antigravitybatteries.com/ag-401/

8 cell . 240 cca . 9 ah . 4.25 x 1.25 x 3.75 high . 1 lb . $179.00 . . Reversed battery posts.
http://antigravitybatteries.com/ytz7-8/

8 cell . 240 cca . 9 ah . 6.00 x 3.5 x 3.75 high . 2 lbs . $179.00
http://antigravitybatteries.com/ytz10-8/

12 cell . 360 cca . 12 ah . 6.00 x 3.50 x 3.75 high . 2 lbs . $219.00
http://antigravitybatteries.com/ytz10-12/

12 cell . 360 cca . 12 ah . 6.00 x 3.50 x 5.00 high . 3 lbs . $219.00
http://antigravitybatteries.com/ytx12-12/

oscarmayer

06-08-2015, 07:10 PM

Cool man! Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

barnett468

06-08-2015, 08:01 PM

Cool man! Thanks!

no prob, you're welcome . . i know its a lot of info and some might sound unnecessary or more than one needs like welding fins onto your cylinder head, but it at least gives you some things that you might not have thought about or that others haven't mentioned . . there's just not a lot of people that have built a bike for this type of thing, especially one that can withstand the abuse a professional rider will subject it to and if a bike wont break with a professional rider on it, it won't break with any rider...unless they crash, lol.

Also, i was actually serious about welding additional fins on the cylinder . . sure, if properly built, it should not seize but the additional fins are simply added insurance and you just cant get enough insurance for a 1000 k race in 100 degree weather . . we have also actually done this and the klt 110 is just one example . . the prototype ran hot from day one which was a major concern the entire time so they had me do a test in which i went around the short track course at saddleback for around 15 minutes at a time in 100 degree heat after which they would quickly measure the oil temp and different areas on the engine then quickly send me back out . . well the poor little thing got so hot that the heat emanating from it was frying my legs, and they thought it should have seized up or done cam damage, but they told me to keep riding.

the biggest change that was done to reduce the temp was to increase the size of the fins on the engine . . i don't remember the exact amount it reduced the temp by but it was easily at least 30 degrees which is a big drop, especially for an air cooled engine . . just imagine if the engine in your car which typically runs at around 195 degrees, suddenly cooled down to a lukewarm 165, or heated up to a toasty 225 . . that's a big change.

plus, if you increased the width of the fins, it would look like a one off works type 600 cc engine and you would be the only one with one, lol.

PS - I also noticed that it is your birthday, so happy birthday!
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oscarmayer

06-10-2015, 08:50 AM

Thanks!

yea I will take a look at the idea. we will defiantly do some testing on temps before we make a final call on that. thanks for the ideas.

barnett468

06-10-2015, 03:49 PM

yea I will take a look at the idea. we will defiantly do some testing on temps before we make a final call on that. thanks for the ideas.

sure no prob, I love doing custom stuff . . I thought your idea to use a larger bearing tube in the swing arm was also novel and definitely very good . . the stock size bearings obviously work just fine in those so is it really necessary to increase the size?...no . . will it make it handle any better?...no so why do it? . . well, imo even though they work just fine, this is a high load area and they do eventually wear out but not very quickly, however, in this particular case, the additional cost to do this is very small if you have an arm custom made and the additional weight it will add is mere ounces, and the additional size of the tube certainly wont get in the way of anything because its only a few mm and the bearings you use will be readily available and not some one off custom thing so basically there is absolutely no down side biut there are absolutely some upsides or potential upsides, so on this particular bike, for this particular app, it is definitely something I would agree with and even do myself, so again, good idea.

As far as custom stuff goes, when I was at kawi we actually modified 2 wheel drive, 4 wheeler Suzuki into a 4 wheel drive with the front being driven by a chain . . it was done as a concept test and was built buy another guy in r and d and we lovingly called it “the chain saw.”, lol . . it actually worked half way decently.

If you’re up for some more random suggestions, I’ll be happy to post them.

oscarmayer

06-12-2015, 09:21 PM

thanks man! let me get further along and your always welcome to offer up ideas. i'm still working on custom gusseting the frame. LOL

barnett468

06-12-2015, 11:43 PM

thanks man! let me get further along and your always welcome to offer up ideas. i'm still working on custom gusseting the frame. LOL

Ok, cool . . Just didn't want to keep throwin stuff up if it wasn't interesting to you . . I know you now how to build a bike, so some of these are just little detail things that can easily be overlooked on a big project like this..

As far as gusseting the frame, I'm sure you are aware of the TCP 19 piece kit . . I think someone here installed one . . It’s not to pretty but it probably works but I don’t know jack about where this bikes weak points are, however, the company below also has frame gusseting kits and they also make custom swing arms, so they might make one with the bigger tube if you ask . . They also make custom skid plates and aluminum cnc’d fork clamps etc but very few people have heard of them so I thought it might at least be interesting for you or might give you some ideas.

See more photos of their 350 without the tank and plastic around 1/2 way down the page.

http://www.hreatv.com/custombuiltparts.html

swing arm

http://www.hreatv.com/productionparts.html

Here’s their version of a 350x
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpt1/t51.2885-15/e15/1169705_1470554363224350_1903682186_n.jpg

barnett468

06-14-2015, 11:03 PM

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Don’t know if you saw these yet but some guy here is making them from aluminum but his mounting bracket looks a little thin . . they are wider and longer than stock . . he has a few sets . . he might make you some with thicker brackets.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/174572-I-m-Back!-My-85-350X-Build-for-TF2015/page2

..............................http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216738&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1433520654

barnett468

06-18-2015, 04:12 AM

Thanks!

yea I will take a look at the idea. we will defiantly do some testing on temps before we make a final call on that. thanks for the ideas.

If you want to do some trick stuff to the engine that will make it nicer, you can do the following to it . . I have used these processes along with some others on some specialty high perf engines and differentials I built.

CERAMIC BEARINGS

Replace all engine ball bearings that spin with ceramic ones . . The high speed ones like the crank and cam are the most important since they spin the fastest . . It’s not helpful to do the shift drum bearing because it does not rotate . . This will reduce heat, increase rate of engine spin up, extend the rpm range and increase hp all due to less bearing drag . . Ceramic bearings last just as long as steel ones . . The bearing clearance is also tighter.

TUNGSTEN DISULPHIDE

This is the slipperiest coating in the world and is used by NASA . . It’s even slipperier than Teflon and Graphite etc and can be used in many different apps . . You can also buy ceramic bearings without this coating from microblue [listed below] which work almost as well but they are hard to find.

ISOTROPIC FINISHING

“Chemically” removes high spots and fills in low spots on the microscopic level . . it is not an abrasive process per se . . Finished pieces look like chrome . . . . Used by Nascar in trannies and differentials and in Aeronautics and is approved by the FAA.

TRANSMISSION

You can have your entire transmission coated with this after you have it REM finished or just leave it with the REM finish, however, if you have the trans REM finished then tell REM that the tungsten coating requires the product be applied with around 600 mph air speed and ask them if it will damage the chemical left by their process if there is one . . Your trans will shift as smooth as butter after either or both of these processes.

Developed isotropic finishing and also does it.

http://www.remchem.com/services/

Also does isotropic finishing for pro race teams.

http://www.cryosciencetechnologies.com/documents/Hidden_Advantage.pdf

http://www.taylor-race.com/isotropic.cfm

Applies tungsten coating and certified.

http://www.appliedtungstenite.com/

These guys have ceramic and steel tungsten bearings.

http://www.microbluebearings.com/

Metric size ceramics.

http://www.microbluebearings.com/bearing-size-charts/

Sells ceramic and tungsten coated bearings.

http://www.bearingworks.com/products/hybrid_bearings.php

Sells ceramic bearings.

http://tbmracing.com/web/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=6&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=67&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=18&vmcchk=1&Itemid=18

Budget bearing test with tungsten disulphide coated ball bearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4uHHeUprIc

Budget screw test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s9Q4x4IuWI

oscarmayer

06-18-2015, 01:01 PM

thanks! will be checking the finishings out. was planning on polishing the trany gears and shaft sets. maybe even cryo the forks, basket, and gear sets.

barnett468

06-18-2015, 05:12 PM

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thanks! will be checking the finishings out. was planning on polishing the trany gears and shaft sets.

I think it's quite cool that you want to go the extra mile on the entire build [except for that puny battery, lol] . . I like specialty projects like this because it's a bit like prototyping and I had a blast building them at Kawi . . I also built some watercraft protos there, one of which I used a telescoping, tilt steering column out of an old Corvette for, lol . . Standard builds are boring to me because there's no challenge.

I don’t want to dissuade you, and I don't want to sound like I know it all because nobody does, so all I can do is offer you info based on my experience and a some of it is kinda stealth stuff like the ceramic bearings and coatings I mentioned that most whom are not a racing insider know . . Also, bear in mind, Kawasaki won the AMA National Road Race Championship several times and we didn’t do it by simply tossing a big cam in the engine and then calling it good enough . . In fact, in 1982, Honda spent over a million dollars developing and building their two V4 WSF bikes to try and beat us and we were using modified production bikes, lol.

Polishing gears is not a great idea irregardless of whether it is done by hand or by vibrasonic/abrasive method . . You will simply not find any professional race team polishing gears these days . . Also, the cost of REM finishing is quite reasonable, especially for the value added . . The Nascar and World Rally Cup guys etc have enough money to do what they want and they use REM finishing . . In fact, most if not all the guys using the Hewland trannies on the race circuits are using REM prepped trannies.

I think that if one reads about the REM process, it might sound a bit like snake oil and too stupidly simple to actually really do anything which was my initial thought when I found out about it many years ago, but after having done more research on it at that time, and then using it myself on various projects, I could easily see that it’s not.

I was building high perf bike and automotive engines etc long before I worked at Kawi, so I can only say that developing ATV’s [including “The TECATE…The Worlds Most Powerful Bike In Its Class”] and off road bikes is not the only thing I have experience in.

Below is a bit more info on the REM process.

Uncoated, REM finished Tiger brand differentials were used in a 2012 and 2013 Championship winning car.

TIGER DIFFERENTIALS REM PROCESSED DYNO TEST

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ctrp-0312-chassis-dyno-test/

TEST WITH STANDARD RACING DIFFERENTIAL

“The numbers for resistance show as negative horsepower figures due to the dyno measuring "backwards" from the way it measures output. The average horsepower for the runs using the standard quick-change rear end was 283.88 hp with coast-down averages of 16.70 hp at 85 mph and 23.93 hp at 100 mph.

TESTS WITH LOW FRICTION DIFFERENTIAL BUILT BY TIGER DIFFERENTIALS

We were surprised to see a significant gain in maximum horsepower as well as a loss in coast-down resistance of around 50 percent. We ran five series of three dyno runs, just like the first test with the stand quick-change, and averaged the numbers. The maximum horsepower was 298.13 and the coast-down numbers were 8.4 hp at 85 mph and 11.42 hp at 100 mph.

http://www.tigerrearend.com/articles-detail.asp?NewsID=12103

“Tiger Rear Ends Now Offering Revolutionary REM ® Isotropic Superfinish
Are you looking to achieve a “winning” finish without destroying the functional shape of your components? Consider Tiger Rear Ends for all of your REM ® Isotropic Superfinish Process (ISF) needs!”

barnett468

06-18-2015, 09:53 PM

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Here's a bit more info on the tungsten disulphide coating, but as I posted a week or so ago, there are others.

WS2 TUNGSTEN DISULPHIDE

Rockwell hardness 30 hrc.

Load bearing capability is 100,000 - 300,000 psi.

Has better dry lubricity than any other substance.

Coefficient of Friction is 0.07 static, 0.03 kinetic/dynamic.

For comparison, the kinetic/dynamic coefficient of friction for Moly is around 5 times higher at 0.19 static, 0.16 kinetic/dynamic.

The coefficient of friction reduces the higher the load is.

It can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications and offers temperature resistance from -450 F to +1200 F.

Thickness after application is .5 - 1.0 microns [0.0000196 - 0.000039].

It was used as a dry lubricant on the mars rovers wheel bearing surfaces . . One of the two that landed in 2004 which weighs 408 lbs [according to NASA] is still rolling along 10 years later on bone dry bearings, lol.
.

barnett468

06-19-2015, 03:14 AM

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oscarmayer, unfortunately again, I’m not sure exactly what you know so again my apologies if you already know this . . I also know you won’t need this info for quite a while but there’s no tellin if I’ll still be here then or even tomorrow for that matter so I figured I better give it to you while I still can.

I mentioned ignition timing around month ago and that you would get the most power out of your engine, and a built in safety margin of your choosing, by trying different settings on an engine or rear wheel dyno . . We had our own dyno at Kawi and dynoed Tecate engines and the factory road race engines etc and sometimes, the road race engines would blow up…at 12,000 rpm, which made Rob Muzzy very, very, unhappy, lol..

I get people at least an additional 10 hp, 10 lbs of tq and 100 or more peak RPM out of their old Mustang or Camaro engines on a weekly basis by simply recurving the mechanical advance portion of their distributor and increasing the initial timing, because, due to the epa, the factory settings on most of these engines is much less than it needs to be for optimal performance.

It used to be standard practice for off road bike and ATV mfg’s to run less timing than the engine could tolerate . . This is because they want a fairly big safety margin to prevent against engine damage from detonation . . When the stock muffler is removed from most of these older vehicles, it is usually possible to safely modify the timing so it has more total timing and reaches total timing at an earlier point in the rpm range, ie, instead of the stock 30 btdc @ 3500 rpm that your bike came with, if you run 91 octane or higher, you could easily, and safely, increase it to around 34 @ around 3000 rpm providing it is re-jetted properly, and 34 @ 2800 is definitely not uncommon for these or an old school V8 automobile engine but I think the latter number is beginning to hit the limit for most ATV’s with 91 octane and imo, it’s not worth the risk to run the timing right up to the limit in cases like this because the little extra power you gain buy running the 3 or so extra degrees isn’t enough to make it worth it.

This even applies to engines with iron heads that have up around 10.0 static compression providing they have an adequate cooling system and appropriate gearing . . If one runs an engine hard in soft sand or up a steep hill etc, it will require a little less advance than if the same bike was run a hard level ground.

Also, all engines are basically the same . . They are all designed basically the same whether it’s a single cylinder 26 hp 350 cc ATV or a 425 hp, 427 ci medium riser side oiler Ford, which means the same exact timing principles apply to every single one of them, which is this…With few exceptions, the maximum amount of power will be achieved by having the cylinder pressure from the ignited fuel, reach its highest point at 14 degrees atdc at all rpm’s.

So, if an engine has a mechanical advance the mechanical portion of the advance curve can be altered by changing the advance springs and the amount of advance it provides can be altered by shortening the length of the advance slot by welding it or lengthening it by filing it a little.

In a case where the timing is controlled by a CDI box, it can easily be altered by simply bypassing the factory cdi and installing an MSD ignition box or similar brand . . The MSD unit not only has two adjustable advance curves that can be adjusted at 24 different points in the rpm range which can be switched between on the fly if necessary . . It also has an adjustable rev limiter, high voltage output, is digital and it fires a multiple spark throughout the entire rpm range.

The multi spark feature reduces the potential for detonation by burning the fuel more effectively . . This often allows the engine to be jetted leaner than it otherwise could which will increase mileage and it can also increase horsepower . . In general, the bigger the cam is, the greater the benefit it will provide.

The multi spark feature will occasionally allow a spark plug that is one step colder than normal, or is a short reach plug, to be used, which in your case, would give you another margin of safety against pre-ignition . . Don’t forget, it is 1000k’s in the desert.

If it were me, I would try the curve on the bottom of the page as my primary curve then recurve the other one to have the second dot on 20 degrees @ 3000 rpm, the third dot to 24 @ 5000 rpm, the fourth dot to 20 @ 6500 rpm and use this as my safety or anti detonation curve . . You can then switch between the two curves at different steady throttle positions etc and see if you notice any change I power.

Dimensions – 7 x 6 3/4 x 3 1/2

It’s recommended to use one of their coils and rf suppression coil wires or shield the box against rf, however, many people use their stock wire and coil and have no problem.

MSD 4217 . . $335.00

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-4217

Ok, now the following is a bit messed up but believe me, if you put any kind of cam in your bike, this will definitely be worth the effort and it really isn’t that much for the benefits you will get.

1. MSD or morons, they need a new advertising guy because unless they changed something, this IOS a multi fire ignition box but they make no mention of that in their pathetically weak and uninspiring ad . . So, just to be on the safe side, I would call them and ask for a tech supervisor and hope that he will know for certain.

2. I would also ask them if it has an ignition retard wire for starting and if so, what color is it.

3. Ask them if the box will only advance the timing by as much as the ignition pickup is advanced . . In other words, some cdi’s retard the timing until a certain rpm, after which it will advance the timing the amount that the trigger is advanced . . In other words, if the pickup is only advanced 10 degrees, this is all the MSD can advance the ignition . . I have no idea how Honda did theirs but the worst case scenario is that you will have to reposition your pick up around 1/2 inch if possible.

4. ask if it will work with your pickup . . it works with most . . If it doesn’t they sell pickups that may or may not fit . . You will also need to buy an adapter plug or buy their rhino 600 harness and adapt it . . check prices at Summit Racing.

https://www.msdpowersports.com/Products/Small-Engine/4154---Hall-Effect-Pickup,-Small-Engines/

https://www.msdpowersports.com/Products/UTV/42171---Harness,-Yamaha-Rhino-to-PN-4217-Ignition-for-660-Rhino/

4. I found a starting issue that people were having with these on a LTR450, however, the description below fixes that problem.

“The problem would be the same for a kicker or a push button starting MSD ignition. The MSD 4217 requires a 330 ohm resistor across the two pickup coil wires that transmit the trigger pulse for the multiple spark discharge. This resistor diminishes the signal to prevent erratic firing of the MSD due to signal noise. This works great at RPMs above 2000 but who can kick at 2000 RPM and who carries a big enough battery to spin a racing engine 2000 RPM repeatedly. The trick is to break the 330 ohm bridge and send it to a SPST switch then back to the other pick up coil wire. Turn the resistor off by flipping the switch and you can start a 14.5:1 compression bike over and over again just like oem. The motor barely makes one revolution and the bike fires that fast if the carb is tuned properly (keep the pilot and fuel air screw slightly on the lean side) Once the bike fires you flip the switch turning ON the 330 ohm resistor.”

MSD can’t even post a clear photo of their timing graph, however, I believe these are the two of the pre-programmed ignition curves . . Add the advance numbers to your initial advance to get the actual advance at the rpm’s shown . . The advance is shown in 4 degree increments and each line on the rpm scale is 500.

https://www.msdpowersports.com/uploadedImages/MainSite/Content/Store/4217-screen-sm.jpg

barnett468

06-20-2015, 12:38 AM

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WEIGHT REDUCTION

If you had a wad of cash and wanted to shave some weight off of it, one of the things you could do is buy have a front axle and swing arm bolt made from grade 5 titanium, then have some titanium fork springs and shock spring made . . Eibach will probably make them for you . . If they can’t, then someone else I know might do it . . The fork springs alone might save around 2 lbs and the shock spring might save another 2 . . I haven’t weighed a 350x axle or swing arm bolt, but my guess would be that you would save around another 3/4 lbs with each . . I would not make the sleeve inside the swing arm that the bearings ride on out of it though.

You can buy titanium bolts from a few sources also . . It’s best to use coarse thread on titanium bolts to increase thread life . . I would also have them coated with tungsten disulphide for the same reason . . This will greatly increase the life of the threads and prevent the unthreaded portions of the shafts from galling. . One lesser alternative would be to just use anti seize or moly wheel high pressure grease on them, but either way, they should have some sort of protective interface and regular grease or oil won’t cut it.

Titanium hardware.

http://store.mettec.com/category/metric_hex_flange_bolts

If race tech doesn’t have any that fit they might be able to have their supplier get some.

http://www.racetech.com/emaillist/news/RTnews-030515.htm

Titanium hardware

http://store.mettec.com/category/metric_hex_flange_bolts

These guys sell titanium stock fairly reasonable and they have both grade 2 and grade 5.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=1353&step=2

These guys have some pre-made ones.

http://www.rentoncoilspring.com/RCS_2014/RCS-CATALOG-MOTO.html

These guys have a range of pre-made shock springs with 57 mm id.

http://www.reactivesuspension.com/springs.php

Back around 1978 or so, Suzuki built a pipe out of titanium for their works bike . . This one has a titanium carb, so you could get one of those too if you want . . It's probably only $5,000.00, lol.

http://img.off-road.com/aimages/articlestandard/dirtbike/442009/637329/10..jpg

barnett468

06-21-2015, 03:50 AM

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.
I was planning to post some brake fluid info for you because I saw your drilled rotors and saw that you added additional holes to them, so I surmised by this that you were concerned about braking performance, and even though the performance will likely be slightly less with the reduced contact area for the brake pad, they might still generate enough heat during a 1000k race to boil the fluid . . Anyway, I just saw your post regarding brake fluid on another thread so it prompted me to do it now.

I noticed that you said you use either Lucas dot 4 or some brand of dot 5 so I thought I would include some info regarding both of these fluids in my post just in case you weren’t aware of this info but in short, I would not ruin either type . . I’m not trying to pick on your choice of types/brands, I am only trying to give you some info you might not be aware of so you can make a more informed choice.

As far as silicone based fluids go, they are more compressible than other types which causes a noticeable spongy feel in the pedal and the hotter they get the more compressible they are . . Also, according to Dow Corning, silicone fluids are far more susceptible to air absorption, and the air can come from the air space between the master cylinder reservoir and the lid . . I have done probably over 200 hours of testing with silicone fluids alone and I don’t like them and would never put one in a race bike . . I have also cooked the cr_p out of the standard dot 4 brake fluids with standard boiling points on several occasions so I wouldn’t use those either.

Obviously the best way to determine what brake fluid is best or best for a particular app is to test it, unfortunately that is not practical to do on 20 different fluids and besides, out of those 20 different fluids, most people might only feel a difference between 3 of them under normal riding conditions.

As you know, the biggest change in a brake fluid comes when it gets hot, however, unless you can get it hot under normal conditions, you won’t know if it sucks [fades] until it actually does get hot, which could be just 50 or 100 miles into a 1000k race in the blazing how desert . . Believe me, I know, I have had fluid fade on a few occasions and it wasn’t fun . .

There are many different factors that affect how a fluid reacts such as ,boiling points, viscosity, compressibility and hygroscopicity etc, but instead of posting all that info I would just try to make it short.

Below are some comparisons to the other “top” fluids that are available . . The word “dry” means new fluid with no moisture/water in it . . The word “wet” means fluid with 3.7 percent water [government issued standard] . . As you can see, none of the other fluids are remotely close to the Castrol in the “wet” category including the BEL RAY 5.0 silicone fluid and the Lucas Dot 4.

If you look at the Lucas and the Bel Ray dot 5, you will see that the the boiling points of both are a fsair amount those of the other top fluids and for that reason plus the fact that the Bel Ray is a Sponge Bob fluid, I wouldn’t trust using either for a 1000k race . . They obviously might hold up just fine, but a little extra margin of insurance for a big deal like this is what I prefer.

The prices below are approximate and are for a 500 ml bottle unless otherwise noted.

I listed them in order of my preference.

ENDLESS TF-650 . . Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 613 . . Wet boiling point 424 . . Used by Petronas F1 team in 2012 and 2013 and used by other pro teams . . For brake fluid that is available to the public, it probably doesn’t get any better than this . . Provides firmer pedal feel than any other I am aware of . . $44.00 per 500 ml.

CASTROL SRF ………………Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 590 F . . Wet boiling point 518 F . . Slightly softer pedal feel than the ENDLESS but far firmer than most other fluids . . $65.00 per liter

TORQUE RT 700 ………….Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 683 F. . Wet boiling point 438 F . . This is from the same person whom used to distribute and spec Prospeed RS683 which is a very good fluid . . Provides firm pedal feel . . Good fluid . . $33.00 per 500 ml

Prospeed TS683 ………….Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 683 F . . Wet boiling point 439 F . . Similar to TORQUE RT 700 . . Popular and works well . . $25.00 per 500 ml

RED LINE ……………………..Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 604 F . . Wet boiling point 400 F . . Oddly, there are no reviews on this and I know their products are popular with some . . Its ester based, but depending on the type of blend they use, it might be fairly hygroscopic as some pure ester oils are by nature . . $17.00 per 500 ml

TILTON TSR-1 ………………Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 622 F . . Wet boiling point 590 F . . Accumulates moisture faster than most others . . I wouldn’t buy it due to basically no private party reviews and high water absorption . . $15.00 per 250 ml.

AP RACING 600 …………….Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 594 F. . Wet boiling point 383 F . . $22.00 . . Very good but it’s not compatible with any other brake fluid.

AP RACING PRF …………….Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 608 F . . Wet boiling point 399 F . . Very good but it’s not compatible with any other brake fluid . . $30.00

MOTUL RBF 600…………....Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 593 F . . Wet boiling point 420 F . . Doesn’t work as well as the Castrol or Endless RF-650 . . $17.00

MOTUL RBF 660 …………...Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 617 F . . Wet boiling point 401 F . . Doesn’t work as well as the Castrol or Endless RF-650 . . $21.00

EBC BF 307 …………………...Dot 4 . . Dry Boiling Point 584 F . . Wet Boiling Point 384 F . . No reviews and I never used it . . $15.00

BEL RAY DOT 5 ……………..Dot 5 . . Dry boiling point 500 F. . Wet boiling point 365 F . . $14.00 per 350 ml [12 oz]

LUCAS DOT 4 ………………..Dot 4 . . Dry boiling point 476 F. . Wet boiling point 325 F . . $4.00 per 350 ml [12 oz]

DOT 5 MINIMUM ……….....Dot 5 . . Dry boiling point 500 F . . Wet boiling point 356 F . . -------

DOT 5.1 MINIMUM ……....Dot 5.1 .Dry boiling point 500 F . . Wet boiling point 356 F . . -------
.

barnett468

06-21-2015, 04:10 AM

.
...are a fsair amount those of the other top fluids

should read

...are a fair amount below those of the other top fluids

i think i or someone else previously suggested getting stainless lines to improve firmness but just in case but you probably already know this for sure.

hmmm...i wonder if they sell edit buttons at wallmart.
.

barnett468

06-21-2015, 06:40 PM

.
Sorry, I forgot to mention the following . . Even if you don’t feel a benefit from the multi spark feature of the MSD CDI box I mentioned, there will still be some, however, the other definite benefit will be from the ability to modify your advance curve to increase performance, and this is something that you will definitely be able to feel . . Also, just as a reminder, you can also change the temperature of the engine a little by doing this . . This temperature change is often a reduction of 10 – 12 degrees from what the factory settings provide in the older cars and many older non race type off road both bikes like yours, which will provide yet another margin of safety in a 1000k desert race.

In addition, you can also benefit by keeping the stock cdi box as a backup . . All you need to do is splice the MSD harness into the existing factory harness that runs to the stock cdi, or buy a male end to match the female end that plugs into the Honda cdi and put this on the end of the MSD box and plug the two together . . If you splice into the Honda harness instead of plugging into the Honda cdi plug, you can simply unplug the stock cdi, slip a rubber cap over the end and secure it with high quality electrical tape to protect it from moisture and dirt and it will run . . If the MSD fails, you can simply unplug it and plug the stock one back in . . Use the cap and tape to seal the MSD plug and your back on the road in less than 3 minutes . . You can also use duct tape in place of electrical tape for this app if you want . . The best I know of is Nashua 557 and 558CA . . Both are very expensive and are available at home depot etc . . They also stick so well it almost takes two hands to pull it off the roll and it will almost remove your skin when trying to pull it off of your fingers.

Of course, as everyone here knows, a Honda cdi never, ever, ever, goes bad, therefore, this redundant system will be totally useless…

You may have space for the MSD in your battery box if you’re lucky.

You can get square or rectangular rubber caps like these from most hardware or electronic parts supply stores if you want to be fancy, otherwise you can just use electrical tape by itself.

.................................................. .http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41O8sr-KX9L._SY300_.jpg

Most electrical tape is cr_p these days . . One of the best ones i know of is Scotch Super 33 + and Scotch Super 88 . . The 88 used to be a little more sticky . . The Super 33 + is easy to identify by the yellow cardboard roll.

.................................................. ....https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-n4chc77IZfJO64xTG9xg5eQAyuEHvFfvL3I99RIfdpZL_6_a0g

danbur55

06-21-2015, 07:18 PM

Hey Barnett good to see your back and full of great tech info. Maybe you should volunteer your services for the build and crew to expedite the aforementioned possibilities as damn they are just overwhelming But as said earlier thanks a bunch but now my brain hurts

barnett468

06-21-2015, 08:53 PM

.

Hey Barnett good to see your back and full of great tech info. Maybe you should volunteer your services for the build and crew to expedite the aforementioned possibilities as damn they are just overwhelming But as said earlier thanks a bunch but now my brain hurts

Hey danbur55, thanks for the greeting and the kind words . . I’ve been into cars and bikes since I was around 13, and it’s just a disease that I have never gotten tired of . . I had an incredibly fun time working at Kawi . . I couldn’t wait to go to work because it was never like work because I loved what I did . . Yes there were MANY 7 day work weeks and MANY 12 hour days in the blazing heat or freezing snow, but every single one of those hours was fun, except for maybe some of the freezing cold ones where I literally couldn’t feel my hands on my grips.

I got paid to engineer, build prototypes and ride [a lot] and they gave us $25.00 a day for food . . How can one possibly beat that deal?

As I mentioned, I don’t know it all and oscarmayer and some others here probably already know a lot of what I am posting, but I simply don't know, but I'm happy to share what I do know and if any of it at all helps, then I’m glad . . Of course I don’t expect oscarmayer to use probably even 1/3rd of what I post because some of it is more than necessary in this case like the titanium bolts etc, especially for the value you get for the dollar spent which is very low, but everything I am posting will in fact, make a better bike.

I know it’s a lot of info but I like to post the reasons for my suggestions so one can understand why I make them . . imo, it's not as helpful if I or anyone simply posted something like the following:

Try a bigger Antigravity battery than the one you choose.

Try Castrol React SRF brake fluid instead of Lucas or dot 5.

Try REM processing the gears instead of just freezing the shift forks.

Try EBC sintered metal brake pads etc.

He’s building a bike from the ground up so all the areas will need to be attended to, therefore there is not really any additional work required with many of my suggestions except for the work required to pay for the additional cost of them, which really isn’t that much more when compared to the benefit and the big picture . . I mean, he was already considering doing something to the gear box so I just suggested trying something else with it instead . . He was also talking about welding the cylinder head and reshaping the dome in hopes the exhaust gas would get out faster/easier, so it doesn’t sound to me like he is hesitant to spend money to make a bitchen, ie, “rad”or “gnarly” bike as long as it makes sense, and in the case of the titanium bolts, of course that would be cool, but imo, isn’t the best place to put money in this case, but who knows what he’ll do regarding that.

I can say that I did have a set of light weight fork tubes and aluminum triple clamps on my Tecate [“The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The World”] race bike, and they were around 7 lbs lighter, and I could easily feel the difference in weight . . Had it only been 1 lb or so, I never would have, but imagine trying to muscle 7 lbs around for 12 hours and 1000k and you can see how that would affect rider fatigue . . Every ounce adds up . . In the early 70’s, I think Roger Decoster’s 250 Suzuki Works bike weighed around 197 lbs or less . . This is around 10 lbs lighter than a new YZ125 box stock production bike.

As far as volunteering my services, I would be more than happy to if I had the time and money and he was close to me, but I’m sure he can easily build a bike without anyone’s help, it’s not really rocket science, however, I would have fun going down and wrenching on his and other peoples bike and cars in a pit . . I like that type of stressful environment and having to make quick repairs.

Anyway, my apologies for the long story.

barnett468

06-21-2015, 09:16 PM

.

Hey Barnett good to see your back and full of great tech info. But as said earlier thanks a bunch but now my brain hurts

As far as alleviating the pain in your brain goes, I have thoroughly reviewed the toxicological and pharmacological information along with scientific data acquired from double blind pain relieving study’s done on several of the leading pain relievers, and after thorough analysis of the data, combined with my own personal testing of the various products, the totality of the information strongly suggests that the one posted below is the fastest and most effective one available, although I would still prefer to do further testing on other brands before coming to a final.

WARNING - Please use for medicinal purposes only.

.............. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlRv946pOKdvE7gBNrUiZJgFwqs3n4D xFg0oAfJWYKvQkNchTGOA

barnett468

06-23-2015, 04:20 AM

.
I would sand your discs with a sanding board to remove the glaze and give the surface a little texture, especially if you are going to run different brake pads then you previously did because the brake pads actually transfer material onto the disc by design during break in which is also called bedding in the brakes . . Once the disc is coated with a thin layer of brake pad material, the brakes work better, however, if you switch pad material or pad mfg etc, but do not completely remove the material left by the previous pad, they will not work at their full potential because you have two dissimilar pad materials rubbing each other.

I use 600 grit wet paper and put around a gallon of water in a bucket with a few drops of dish washing liquid . . This helps the paper glide on the surface and helps keep the paper from getting clogged . . Of course you can try it without the soap first if you want too.

If the discs are grooved I would not machine them flat because they will overheat much easier even if it is only .010”.

Also, all the new holes holes should be radiused like the original ones are to prevent the sharp edge from lifting if the discs get hot enough but my guess is that they will have plenty of time to cool between application in a race like this . . If they were on Jeff Wards race bike, we would radius them because of the abuse they get.

You can buy these for around $5.00 from most any auto parts store.
.................................................. ................. https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWC7lZiuTyXGgZHlUWsploVOqdn_slk bxV7pbSK735Wi7UN9DO

I added more holes to the stock front rotor. Let me know what us think. I used some sand paper to take the ruff edges off the holes so it is now smooth and flat like it should be and ready for use.
.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/28/146526239fe0401cba5cf4a39da4302d.jpg

2nd front rotor arrived!! Just need to drill and have surfaced a tiny bit but in excellent shape!!
.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29/6cbecc44c6c33f697a7fd9e4da973b60.jpg
.

barnett468

06-24-2015, 04:45 AM

.
.

Next issue is only aftermarket piston is Wiseco right now.
Actually both Wossner and Arias list pistons, however, I don’t know about Wossners availability . . I think someone here might have mentioned Wossner also but Arias makes very good pistons.

I need a higher compression CAST piston VS. the forged one they provide due to expansion with heat issues. Wiseco makes a great piston! But for this particular project a cast will not swell as fast and can take the heat better.
Anyway, any experts have any advice? Would be much appreciated! Right now I am having a hard time finding what I need as far as engine goes.
Unfortunately, your theory or belief about expansion is not quite cut and dried and I will try to explain why as briefly as I can.

1. There are few, if any, professional racer running cast pistons on anything . . This includes in air cooled motorcycles and cars like the VW bug . . If they have a Honda CRF, they take the piston out and run a Wossner or Wiseco . . John Force does not use cast pistons . . This info alone should be sufficient to cause one to have serious second thoughts about cast pistons.

2. Thermal expansion is directly related to the silicon content of a piston and the expansion characteristics are then controlled/regulated by the pistons design, meaning that two cast pistons or even forged pistons made from the same material but by two different mfg’s, can expand at different rates and by different amounts if their designs are different, therefore unless you know the exact amount silicon in a particular model of piston from a particular mfg, and its thermal expansion characteristics, there is simply no easy way to tell.

3. There are cast pistons that have a relatively low silicon content, and there are others that have a high one.

4. The more silicon they have, the less they expand if all other things are equal.

5. The more silicon they have, the slower they expand if all other things are equal etc.

6. The steel liner of a cylinder usually expands slower than any aluminum piston does.

3. The more silicon a piston has, the more brittle they become . . Some of the pistons with the highest silicon are called hypereutectic and Keith Black is probably the biggest mfg of these and many people in the racing world refer to hypereutectic pistons as hyperexplosive because of the high failure/breakage rate but of some but as with all things, not all hypereutectic pistons are created equal.

4.The 2618 material forged pistons have a low silicon content so they expand more than the others and can expand more quickly so they are more susceptible to rapid temperature changes in the cylinder and these rapid changes are caused by superchargers.

5. The 2618 pistons are far less brittle than the 4032’S, and because of this factor, many people use them in supercharger and nitrous apps even though they are more susceptible to rapid changes in size from rapid changes in heat . . All they do to compensate for their rapidly changing size, is simply run slightly more clearance with them . . The difference in clearance might be an additional .0015 on around a 4” bore which doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in the 30 year old ATV world of recreational riders that are running worn out bores with maybe .007” clearance . . I have seen it many times.

6. In general, forged pistons run cooler than cast.

7. You can reduce piston temps and thereby reduce their amount of expansion by having the dome coated with a thermal barrier coating however, doing so will cause the top of the head to run hotter because the amount of heat that is reflected back into the head by the coating which would normally go into the sides of the piston and then into the cylinder and eventually to the fins etc, is now being sent to the head so unless you add the additional cooling fins I suggested to the head at the very least, I would be hesitant to do this..

Below is the same company I posted earlier for anti friction piston coatings.

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/motorcycle-coatings/motorcycle-coatings-price-sheet/

You can easily verify all of the info above by calling any piston mfg.

I was curious as to what some of the currently available pistons for the ATC350X looked like so I thought I would post them too.

The Arias is 10.75 compression but they can make it whatever you want for a price.

The Wiseco is 10.25.

Wossner doesn’t say what theirs is so you would need to call for info.

As I mentioned in a previous post, my first choice would be a piston made from 4032 material due to their low expansion . . The other options are 2618 material or hyperutectic which I don’t like and wouldn’t use but you would need to call the companies to find out the piston material in these.

The reason I wouldn’t run a short skirt like the one that was posted is because there is not a significant benefit in your app because the reduced friction concept, or potential, is just not high enough . . As I mentioned, short skirt pistons rock in the bore which causes premature wear, plus the Honda CRF type short skirt pistons are designed to be run in a water cooled engine where there are less extremes in temp and subsequent cylinder expansion than there are in an air cooled engine with a 30 year old design.

The lighter piston will give you a little more rpm and slightly quicker spin up and maybe 1 more hp at peak rpm but at the cost of a little torque which is not a big deal, however, these benefits are only useful to the best racers in the world that can utilize the little benefit that is created by them plus people that use this type of stuff rebuild their engines far more often.

If you want to find a few more free rpm that won’t create a loss anywhere else, I would get titanium valve springs and retainers as well as use the low friction items I mentioned earlier.

Wiseco

..........http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/pRsAAMXQlgtSvD~B/$_57.JPG
http://images.motorcycleparts2u.com/xmoto-photos-1408/160311-tr-wiseco-piston-kit.jpg
http://images.motorcycleparts2u.com/xmoto-photos-1408/160311-tr-wiseco-piston-kit-2.jpg
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/85-89-ATC350X-Wiseco-Single-Piston-Kit-81-50mm-0-50-10-25-1-Comp-4393M08150-/230991469004[/img

Wossner

..............................................[img]http://www.wossnerpistons.com/images/store/wossner-usa-inc/WOS-8598D050-1_LG.jpg
..............................................http ://www.wossnerpistons.com/images/store/wossner-usa-inc/WOS-8598D050-2_LG.jpg
..............................................http ://www.wossnerpistons.com/images/store/wossner-usa-inc/WOS-8598D050-3_LG.jpg

Arias vs Stock

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60637&d=1203223416

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60634&d=1203223329

Stock

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/aA4AAOSwv0tVGirG/$_57.JPG
..........................http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTkyWDgwMA==/z/5XMAAOSwBahVHGis/$_57.JPG?set_id=880000500F

barnett468

06-24-2015, 04:54 PM

.
oscarmayer . . if you haven't decided on what brake pad to use, i would consider the ebc sintered metal ones in the link below . . the carbon ones and other ebc pads will wear quickly and you dont want to wear them out before the race is over . . the ebc severe duty pads are too hard . . im not familiar with the other brands.

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/764/4442/EBC-Brake-Pad-Sintered-Metal?v=1923

oscarmayer

06-25-2015, 09:46 AM

barrnett, can we take a break from the info overload? appreciate your efforts, but it's just too much at one time. if I need more info, I promise I will ask. Again I appreciate it, but it's just too much at once to deal with when I am deep into the project.

onformula1

07-01-2015, 02:08 AM

Any updates?
Alpha, Beta, Tango, Bravo, Charlie... I am on your "SIX"

cq, cq, cq, dx

:lol:

Jmoozy27

07-01-2015, 09:13 AM

Whiskey , tango , foxtrot... Bogey is confirmed, #2 is closing in...

oscarmayer

07-02-2015, 04:19 PM

Yea. We were going to use those you have listed actually

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oscarmayer

07-02-2015, 04:20 PM

Hahahahahaha
Well got the frame back from the blasters now to finish wending and extra gussets. Then onto preping for paint and final assembly. Probably 1-2 weeks till it is painted and ready for assembly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

danbur55

07-02-2015, 06:21 PM

Huh. Spellcheck strikes again

oscarmayer

07-05-2015, 11:27 AM

fixed! :) sorry about typos

onformula1

07-07-2015, 01:49 AM

Where's the soda pop blast pictures?

Did you keep some to make 350X BAJA bread? :lol:

oscarmayer

07-11-2015, 05:27 PM

Hahaha

Ok everyone I have discussed some frame support changed for the 350x where the swinger bolt goes through. It will totally stop ANY weakening of the frame there when completed around the swing arm bolt mount.

This is a partial setup I worked on with Milner and we still have more parts to finish it. But this gives you a look into our level of design work and what we are doing. We will complete the kits for both racers and then mic the results. Once done we will work on making kits available going forward for starting the 350x then moving to other trikes like the 250r and even a custom 200x swinger design. ;)
Stay tuned for more goodness!!!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/11/4fb0d5d2b916b230ab2c90a18ad3c047.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oscarmayer

07-15-2015, 10:27 AM

I figured ya'll would be flipping out over the new frame bolt supports. no one has ever done this to a trike before. (at least not known or made kits like we are)

Jmoozy27

07-15-2015, 10:35 AM

They look badazz mike, they will catch on!!! It's tough to compete with john nearys pic threads right now. The second gen 200x frame has something similar to that. It makes the frame much better than the first gen.

ironchop

07-15-2015, 11:04 AM

oscarmayer

07-15-2015, 02:05 PM

^^ hahahaaha

barnett468

07-15-2015, 08:38 PM

.

Ok everyone I have discussed some frame support changed for the 350x where the swinger bolt goes through. It will totally stop ANY weakening of the frame there when completed around the swing arm bolt mount.
I figured ya'll would be flipping out over the new frame bolt supports. no one has ever done this to a trike before. (at least not known or made kits like we are)

Looks like she’s starting to come along . . Some of my guesses as to the lack of posts regarding this is because several people seemed to be preoccupied with another recent Honda thread. . Also, I think it would be more interesting for some if you simply gave more of an idea as to what you are ultimately planning to do in this area because inquiring minds want to know, however, if it's any consolation, at least I am interested and curious about it, lol.

I’m not quite sure what you are referring to and I’m guessing I am not alone, but I’m guessing it is the flat bracket/gusset that you added connecting the lower frame to the lower foot peg mount . . I posted the first photo below just so people that aren’t all that familiar with how the 350x frame is built, can easily see the difference . . My guess is that you are going to tie that in to the thick "spacer" on the swing arm bolt for some reason and that the spacer will be welded to the swing arm pivot bracket . . My apologies if this is not what you are referring to . . If it is, I am curious as to just what your ideas are for this and your reasons, since to my knowledge, which is not extensive with the 350x frame, there is not a problem with the swing arm bracket breaking.

Obviously if you use the idea I gave you earlier in this thread to simply weld a thick hardened washer to the bracket to eliminate the possibility of the bolt hole wearing, your "spacer" will certainly do that after it is welded because it is the same idea I suggested but with a thicker piece, however, the washer/spacer would only need to be around 5/16” thick as I previously mentioned, not as thick as the one you are using so this would also save you a tiny bit of weight.

I know you guys are planning on adding some other gussets to but I thought I would also post some options in case you haven’t thought about them, and if you have, they might give you different ideas of how to do these mods then you already had in mind . . They are the lower frame brackets seen in the photos below . . Both of them will reduce frame flex and the potential for breaking, with the mod shown in the last photo reducing it the most.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/f00AAOSwPhdVRmE5/$_57.JPG

Although this is a 250r frame, it still shows how you can just add two round tubes to connect the lower frame tubes together.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/k00leo/RESTORE/IMAG0981.jpg

These are mods are done by xrider and are shown in his ATC350X build thread and I think he offers these pieces at the site below if you want to buy any of them just to save you guys some time because I know from having made around a bazillion of these types of things for my own bikes as well as many of the test bikes and factory works bikes at Kawi, that it takes a long time to do, therefore I can appreciate what you are doing.

http://www.hreatv.com/custombuiltparts.html

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/zwaylo/350xgussets015.jpg

onformula1

07-15-2015, 11:23 PM

I figured ya'll would be flipping out over the new frame bolt supports. no one has ever done this to a trike before. (at least not known or made kits like we are)

Once the other plates are on it will tie it all together.

onformula1

07-15-2015, 11:32 PM

more building, less talking!

you know this thread is going to be 74 pages deep before you get the tires mounted.

I just felt like busting you and Milner`s balls this morning.

I WISH YOU WOULD BUILD SOMETHIN ALREADY :lol:

Funny, guy!

Let's just say there is A LOT of stuff on the way, but Mike has me under a gag order. :lol:

oscarmayer

07-16-2015, 10:31 AM

:p
surprise!!!!!

DohcBikes

12-24-2015, 11:40 AM

Are you done yet? Hopefully out testing somewhere by now.

oscarmayer

12-27-2015, 10:31 AM

No. :(( we pushed the Baja racing to 2017 due to funds. Stupid ex wife...[emoji19]

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oscarmayer

02-11-2016, 05:10 PM

Update!! New front Cheetah Tires custom ply for Baja race trikes. Total 3 tires. 2 here and 1 sent to Milner for Baja2.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160211/c138123af842e36fe7cd6ad7f8d04df8.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160211/4f77360da5d2a78f3d5c441d3e100bc5.jpg

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onformula1

02-12-2016, 05:46 AM

Dirtcrasher

02-12-2016, 03:35 PM

Those really look nice. Glad it happened!!

bad to the bone

06-04-2016, 10:44 PM

Update on this 350x baja build?

oscarmayer

06-05-2016, 08:47 AM

We have a titled frame finally. BAJA suspension is being handled my Milner directly. He is now the chassis manager and I am the engine manager. We also picked up friend Tim Carrolson as our 3rd rider. We will go to BAJA in 2017 with a team of 3 riders for the first BAJA. We are looking at different options for more top end on the 350x due to we expect to spend most of our time 50%or higher on throttle.
Custom metal tech swing arm is being used.
Transmission will be polished and engine will be gone over in every detail. We are looking at BB setups and large dual oil coolers.

Right now focus is to finish the 350 MX and use the $ after the sale to help finish the BAJA trike with it. Funds are tight right now so that is why.

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El Camexican

10-02-2016, 09:33 PM

BAJA suspension is being handled my Milner directly.

Based on that you may want to start thinking about postponing till the 2020 event.

DohcBikes

10-02-2016, 09:42 PM

http://love.catchsmile.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/This-Post-Is-Dedicated-to-Those-Who-Are-Going-Through-Some-Really-Tough-Situations-Right-Now-But-Are-Holding-On-And-Not-Giving-Up.jpg

El Camexican

10-02-2016, 09:48 PM

http://love.catchsmile.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/This-Post-Is-Dedicated-to-Those-Who-Are-Going-Through-Some-Really-Tough-Situations-Right-Now-But-Are-Holding-On-And-Not-Giving-Up.jpg

If that message is for Milner you can find him on FB talking with Oscar about everything but returning peoples shocks.

DohcBikes

10-02-2016, 10:23 PM

No, it was for you. I couldn't care less about Milner or Oscar.

oscarmayer

10-04-2016, 10:12 AM

Baja trike is on hold till 350MX is completed. once it is done, the $ will be used to help finish the Baja trike.

El Camexican

10-04-2016, 08:10 PM

Baja trike is on hold till 350MX is completed. once it is done, the $ will be used to help finish the Baja trike.

That MX trike isn't finished yet? Don't tell me, you're waiting on a shock?

JacobMonster

10-04-2016, 08:49 PM

That MX trike isn't finished yet? Don't tell me, you're waiting on a shock?
Well if that's the case, big "shock".
Eh..*nudge*...eehh?

.....I'm an idiot. Continue.

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DohcBikes

10-04-2016, 10:28 PM

Inner circle for life

oscarmayer

10-09-2016, 11:44 AM

El Camexican

10-09-2016, 12:46 PM

No it is waiting my lazy ass to make a custom oil cooler mount for the new cooler. Why are all your comments negative now?
If you guys cannot be positive please don't post in my threads at all.....

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Your project involves the participation of a certain someone who is holding up the progress of dozens of others, not to mention some money issues. If you expect me to ignore that fact you're dreaming.

If you want me to post something positive how about this, I am "positive" that you're racing/building partner is screwing me.

We are judged by the company we keep, where do you think that puts you right now when you won't even come on and defend the actions of your friend ?

El Camexican

03-19-2017, 11:52 PM

HondaRidr

03-20-2017, 01:43 AM

^ Give it a break dude

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El Camexican

03-20-2017, 07:25 AM

^ Give it a break dude

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I will, right after this thread is moved to the Fiction section along with the rest of Mike & Milner's wet dreams... Dude.

fabiodriven

03-20-2017, 08:57 AM

^ Give it a break dude

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You have a problem with people being held to their word? Oscar talked the talk, it's time to walk the walk. It's unfortunate he was able to garner the attention he was for a stunt he never pulled off while true men like Dynamically Unstable Racing have slipped under the radar and actually did this for the sake of doing it, not for false internet glory.

You guys all ready to run Oscar?

HondaRidr

03-21-2017, 11:22 AM

3 Wheel Drive

03-21-2017, 11:57 AM

Did Milner & Oscar give up on riding doubles on their 350x?

atc300r

03-21-2017, 02:58 PM

Maybe M&Ms will sponcor them.

fabiodriven

03-21-2017, 03:41 PM

I'm glad the internet police are here to troll people and cause drama. If you have an issue with someone why don't you take care of it privately? I'm just tired of seeing stuff like this, that's all.

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Because some people choose to ignore any private means of communication if you must know, and then continue along their merry way and pretend they did nothing wrong. They meet new people who are unaware of what their past is and then take advantage of those people as well. Not only that, but when encountered they simply continue their lies and attack those who are trying to prevent others from giving these bad people their trust. You see, whether you enjoy reading this or not, this is a good thing in my eyes. Some bad people have done bad things and still not made reparations or even acknowledged their poor behavior. If you don't like seeing it I suggest you don't read it. You have been trained to expect lies and false promises and excuse them when they occur. I don't operate that way.

Personal transactions aside and my true feelings are this; I laughed when I saw this thread started by Oscar because the man has never finished a project he says he's going to for as long as I've been on the boards here. When Oscar posted this dream of his as though he were going to accomplish it, I told myself I hope he makes me eat my words, but at that time I had zero expectation that would happen. Taking on these races is a huge frickin deal. Around the same time, Dynamically Unstable was preparing to do the Norra race and they had a very quiet thread. They were building, testing, and riding instead of posting. The post seemed almost more of an afterthought. I still wear my Dynamically Unstable shirt that I bought at that time. I found it embarrassing as a member of this forum that a member such as Oscar would represent this site and actually get more attention than the men who actually did this race. I knew he wasn't going to follow through and he hasn't, and I'm not going to forget that. It's an insult to those who have actually done this that Oscar got as much attention as he did while those who actually did the race went almost unrecognized.

So all personal dealings aside, put up or shut up, say what you mean, mean what you say, follow through with promises, etc... These men have called my friends as well as myself liars which is untrue. I will not forget that and will point out and prove every time I see one of these men lying. Don't like it? Don't partake.