86 KXT Build

[phantomtracer]

Hi,
I hope to piece an 86 together for the imperial invasion 2016.
With the help of a few on this board I have gotten a good start to the project.
I want to have a solid example of this bike. I had an 84 and 86 back in the day and it's calling my name.
I started with an eBay purchase of an 86 kx 250 motor and has gone from there.
Thanks to the great thread by nd4speed I have gotten all the necessary trans gears, clutch and primary gear to make this motor a real kxt motor. Still working on the ignition, might go the Ricky stator route.
I still need a new connecting rod kit, but I have all new seals and bearings ready to go.
I'm trying to use nos when available or within reason.
If anyone can please share info on paint and finish work for this bike I would appreciate it.
I've been working on the fork sliders and wanted to confirm that they came clear coated. If you can see my pic this coating appears on the 3 fork sliders I have.
In order to get the correct machined finish I have read several ideas, anyone have experience restoring these?
I'll post up when the motor is ready to assemble.
Thanks for the help I've already received from nd4speed and nstyle73.

[phantomtracer]

211645Made some progress on the fork sliders.
YouTube has good videos on this.
Started with wire wheel, then wet sand with 220,400,1000 then hit it with a red scotch brite pad in a circular motion.
Do not sand lengthwise.
Still needs a good cleaning then semi-gloss clear coat.
I did confirm it is clear coat not annodized, and the other parts like the frame and motor cases do not use primer.

[tecaterob]

The clear turns yellow after a while. That's why I chromed mine.

211702

[phantomtracer]

Wow!
Beautiful
How about the triples, the stock finish is bare, is that correct?

[christph]

You may want to try Sharkhide to preserve the shine. I saw this product on an automotive show and plan on using it on my Calfab swingarm after I polish it. Here is their website: http://www.sharkhide.com/

[tecaterob]

Wow!
Beautiful
How about the triples, the stock finish is bare, is that correct?

Triples are chrome also

[nd4speed]

I like the Kenda Front Max tire but when I bought one for my 84 it was shipped/stored folded over and was deformed, never had it long enough to see if hot summer and sun would fix it.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211690&d=1425778574

You still going to try to find OEM rear rims?
You going to powder coat or paint everything?
Any connecting rod kit 1978-2004 (2007?) KX250 should work, Hot Rods makes them.

Hopefully some one here has a spare carrier, try to make a new classified ad?

[phantomtracer]

I was most likely going with oem rims.
I will be painting the frame. I know powder coat is the popular option, but I want to keep it like it was as delivered in 86.
I found an oem connecting rod # 13044-5042.
I don't know why the kx 250 shows a different part number, but I figured I might as well put the kxt part # in the motor. I was going to compare and measure the two rods to confirm any differences or not.
I am picking the cylinder and piston up from the machine shop later this week.
Still need to bead blast the cases.

[Ragar]

I like the Kenda Front Max tire but when I bought one for my 84 it was shipped/stored folded over and was deformed, never had it long enough to see if hot summer and sun would fix it.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211690&d=1425778574

You still going to try to find OEM rear rims?
You going to powder coat or paint everything?
Any connecting rod kit 1978-2004 (2007?) KX250 should work, Hot Rods makes them.

Hopefully some one here has a spare carrier, try to make a new classified ad?



My Kenda then one in the PIC :D
Was well deformed from shipping, had to use a couple of old school tricks to get it on the bead lol. let it sit with 10psi in it over night, set it to spec and no more deformed tire!

[phantomtracer]

Made a bit of progress on the fork sliders, I should have them clear coated In a day or two. Still waiting for some parts to assemble them. I bead blasted the engine cases and cylinder. I got the correct nos connecting rod kit and it turns out the original kit I had was not correct. Also, this rod is the same as the kx rod. I figured it was but the part numbers are different.
Here's the cases ready for paint.212819212820

[phantomtracer]

Sprayed the ignition cover, used vht satin black. The color is an excellent match to the factory paint.212878

[phantomtracer]

Finished painting the engine cases. Baked at 200 degrees in oven, wife thought I was crazy.213315

[YTZ drew]

Baked at 200 degrees in oven, wife thought I was crazy.213315

I've done that too! My wife is used to it, doesn't even phase her anymore. I try to only do that stuff in the good weather, so I can open the windows and get the smell out after. Baked a laptop motherboard once to reflow the solder, wow what a stink!

[phantomtracer]

Received some of the last big items for the build. Also got a bunch of genuine kawi hardware.
Started the engine assembly.
Still waiting on fork bushings.


213852213853213854

[onformula1]

Finished painting the engine cases. Baked at 200 degrees in oven, wife thought I was crazy.213315

I have heard this a few times, so about 12 years ago I grabbed a oven off a street corner set out for bulk garbage day, fixed it up and put it in the shop.

[phantomtracer]

Just received the Clarke tank. Very nice quality.


214013

[onformula1]

Nice, I like the Honda CR type cap.

Color match is good?

[Ryanq55]

Just received the Clarke tank. Very nice quality.


214013

Only bad thing about these tanks is they leave a gap between it and the front edge of the seat, bugs the hell out of me...my cap leaked as well...

[fieldy]

Did your clark tanks come with a cap gasket? I have new Clarks and wondered if they leaked. The quality seems very good and they are easy to talk to. One universal tank I got from them has a round rubber piece (looks like a gasket ,no pinhole though) that isn't a good fit in the cap. I may have to call about them.

[86T3]

Nice, I like the Honda CR type cap.

Color match is good?

The color of the Clark tanks is slightly lighter that the fenders, which is exactly the same way the tecate tanks were when they were new.

[phantomtracer]

Color match is good not perfect. I think the biggest difference is the factory plastic has a higher polish to it.
The cap gasket is oem quality.
overall, it's a nice product that looks 1000 times better than any used tank.

[oile]

214052 Here's an Clarke tank on my ride I think it matches very well.

[phantomtracer]

Moving over to the rear shock for now. You need to grind the shock shaft threads a bit in order to remove the nut. Here is another photo of the shim stack. This is what controls the damping rate. Going to replace the seal head with an AllBalls piece.


214053214054

[nd4speed]

if you did not get seat latch hooks yet here are some on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/231528657160?item=231528657160&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true

[phantomtracer]

I just saw this and the latch is sold!
Some one got a good deal on that.

[bobr]

Have you looked into a rebuild from Works Performance.? I've had good results from them. Bob

[phantomtracer]

Hey Bob!
I wanted to stick with the stock shock. I have everything I need, except for o-ring for the adjuster body.
Still can't figure out how to remove the plate that holds the comp. adjuster in the res. body. Anyone know how to remove that? Do I need to drill out the metal pin on the side?214096

If I try turning it with a pin wrench it doesn't want to move much, feels like it hits something, thinking it's the metal pin on the side.

[phantomtracer]

Thanks to a kx site I got some advice on the tear down. You have to drill out the side pin to remove the compression adjuster. It's a hollow pin that contains a sping a a ball that rides on the compression barrel to give the detents. It contains two o-rings. Only issue is I still don't know how to replace the seals inside the compression cartridge. I think this is as far as I can go without replacement.214248

[zRxsix3]

Finished painting the engine cases. Baked at 200 degrees in oven, wife thought I was crazy.213315

may i ask why one bakes painted parts in the oven? never seen or heard of this method lol my mom would kill me if i did something like this in her oven...

[phantomtracer]

Baking helps to cure the paint.
With the assembly process I was worried I would scratch the paint so i figured this would help. The instructions on the can recommend it.

[nstyle73]

The adjuster knob and o-rings are available in a kit from Kawasaki. Not sure if they are still stocked. I bought one quite a while back, I'll look for the part number. One trick is that the nitrogen bladder is the same as a kx125, so they share all of those parts if that helps you in any way.

[pantera1975]

If you haven't bought decals yet and planning on it. Im almost done setting up the 86 t-3 set. not sure on the pricing but they will be same quality as the ATC ones Ive been selling Ill offer the option of letting you customize colors at N/C with in reason and change out the 250 for big bore numbers.

[phantomtracer]

Thanks, nstyle. If you could find the part # that would help.
I managed to get the compression assembly apart. It's a non serviceable item, but I should be able to reassemble it. There are four o- rings inside and one Teflon seal for the rebound rod that is located at the bottom of the shock shaft. I'm going to make some calls on the Teflon seal, the o-rings are standard items.
214312

Pantera, thanks for the offer but I have been talking to someone about the decals already.

[bobr]

Phil, they will rebuild your stock shock. Bob
Hey Bob!
I wanted to stick with the stock shock. I have everything I need, except for o-ring for the adjuster body.
Still can't figure out how to remove the plate that holds the comp. adjuster in the res. body. Anyone know how to remove that? Do I need to drill out the metal pin on the side?214096

If I try turning it with a pin wrench it doesn't want to move much, feels like it hits something, thinking it's the metal pin on the side.

[phantomtracer]

I'm enjoying the process. I want to do the work myself.

[nd4speed]

I sold shaun sblt500r a rear shock and he turned it into something that looked brand new. He does great work and knows so much about motorcycle repair in general. He would be good to get a hold of, I have bumped into him on different forums for over a decade and he was always very helpful.

his build:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/103939-sblt500r-s-86-Tecate-Build

went through some of his posts about shocks and he said he never posted a how to cause it would be a page long and there would be lots of questions, he just said the info is out there on the net for shock re-building.

[nd4speed]

Chapter 11-11 Will this help?

http://thequadconnection.com/Manuals/1986_KAWASAKI_TECATE_SUPPLEMENT.pdf

[phantomtracer]

Thanks for the info.
I was able to replace the 2 inner o-rings from a standard o-ring kit and reinstall the compression valving. I will post a pic tomorrow, but basically I bent th lip over in segments and then bent it back. I still need to figure out what to use to install the press fit pin.
After that it should go together easy.

[phantomtracer]

I had to order the two outside o-rings for the compression cartridge.
See pic of crimped end of compression cartridge. I coated it with jb weld to reinforce the area as a precautionary measure.
I was able to source the rebound bushing and seals. Still trying to figure out what to use for the pins I drilled out. I haven't found a replacement yet.
For others looking for parts the 1990 yz80 and later year yz 85 have similar shocks and share some parts. The shock shaft size for the yz is 14mm and the shock body is 40mm just like the kxt shock.
214596

[phantomtracer]

Just got the decals from blue line graphics. Very nice.215150

[phantomtracer]

Also got the last o-ring I have been waiting for, now I can complete the rear shock.
Also got the rebuilt crank back so I should be able to make some good progress soon.

[phantomtracer]

I installed the compression cartridge, replaced the rebound rod seals, installed the seal head and shim stack. I used nos piston band and seal and All Balls seal head. Most of the parts were purchased from the KYB distributor.
One word of caution when installing the shock rod the depth that you screw it into the shock body is critical for proper operation of the rebound adjuster. Also, I was worried about what I was going to use for the pins that I drilled out that hold the spring and detent ball. After looking at things closely I realized the area behind the pins are not under pressure so I just filled in the drill holes with epoxy and tapped them back into place.


215215215216215217

[phantomtracer]

Jumping around a bit as I wait for parts.
Here is a shot of the motor.
All Kawasaki bolts, gaskets, connecting rod kit, bearings and seals.
The only non Kawasaki items are the wiseco piston and Ricky Motorsports high output stator.215717215718

[nd4speed]

Would you rebuild shocks for any body else? If so how much you think you would charge?

[bkm]

Great work and top notch tuturial. I will be refering back to your work once I start my KXT 125 build. Thanks

[phantomtracer]

Unfortunately, I don't have time to rebuild shocks. If you want to try it yourself I would be happy to offer advice.

[phantomtracer]

Here are a few more pics.215731215732

[nd4speed]

Hey Phil...I have 3 maybe 4 shocks needing rebuilds. Would it be possible for you to post a list of parts that are needed or what u used for a just a standard rebuild (without the non-serviceable compression portion).

Like u ordered a All Balls seal head? All Balls Shock Seal Head Kit - No. 37-1010 ? Do I just replace the seal head?
Did the kit include the bumper?

Is there seals/orings to replace on the piston(valve stack)?

Does the bladder really need to be replaced? Did you have to grind down the shaft nut?
Did you use OEM replacement nut?

Also there are 2 pits on this shaft up high where bumper would sit, does this make this shaft bad?

It would be great to have this info for the parts swap thread so people can rebuild their shocks.

[phantomtracer]

No problem, Ill post up the info soon.

[barnett468]

Also there are 2 pits on this shaft up high where bumper would sit, does this make this shaft bad?

the shaft bumper will compress around 2/3rds of the way under hard bottoming, therefore, you can simply calculate its compressed height minus the distance the seal lip is below the top of the shock [if it is], then you will know if the pits will go below the seal lip or not.

[phantomtracer]

I'm about to send off items for plating, one question I hope someone can help me with is what color is the original axle, sprocket hub, brake hub and wheel spindles?
It's tough to tell if these parts were silver (zinc) or gold (di-chromate) plated from the factory.
If someone could respond if you know what the original 86 came with.

Thanks.

[nd4speed]

all mine have been silver color
http://www.atvrider.com/sites/atvrider.com/files/styles/medium_1x_/public/images/2015/03/kxt250-a1-f.jpg?itok=udQdpypR

[phantomtracer]

Thanks,
the parts that I have look to be gold in color, I was thinking the 87 version might be different from the 86 in plating. So just to confirm, the axle, wheel spindles, brake caliper bracket, sprocket and brake rotor hubs are silver from the factory?
Anyone dispute this?
I looked at old magazine tests but they do not show a color shot of the rear.
Thanks for the help.

[fieldy]

Bump.The two 86's I am staring at are the silver plating. I however am liking the gold look. I was considering making an 86 look like an 87. I do not know if the 87 was gold adonized. Anyone know about this? Thanks

[christph]

I have an 87 Tecate and none of the parts are gold anodized, i.e., they are all silver. I also have an 84 and some of the parts were anodized gold, e.g., the hubs.

[phantomtracer]

Thanks!
I've been looking at old mags but couldn't tell.
Off to the plater very soon.

[nd4speed]

What weight and kind of shock oil did you use? I found all balls seal heads for $25 shipped and am going to practice rebuilding on the questionable shock I have. Race Tech located by me sells seal heads for $65. My guess is that size of KYB shock has the oem seals (minus the metal head) available so you can just rebuild the OEM head with new seals. Possibly the piston part too?

[phantomtracer]

The seal head contains a bushing, if you rebuild the stock seal head, make sure you replace the bushing, otherwise the seals will wear quickly. I used bell-ray 15w oill, factory recommends 5w-20. I couldn't find that, figured the 15 is probably a good compromise.

[onformula1]

The stock shock fluid is KYB K2C and is rated at 5WT.

Kawasaki was WAY ahead of the rest of the manufacturers in fork & shock fluid technology.

HUGE thank you goes to Ross Maeda of Kayaba!

Honda was using ATF at the time. (Very Bad idea) but they figured it out later.

It is still available and still excellent and pretty expensive about $25.00 to $30.00 bucks per quart.

[nd4speed]

Thanks for the info guys...I was going to look for 7 wt but guess 5 wt is what it calls for....$30 a quart...um wow.

[onformula1]

Thanks for the info guys...I was going to look for 7 wt but guess 5 wt is what it calls for....$30 a quart...um wow.

I am not saying that is what you must use (It is great fluid) There are many brands that make great fluid for a 30 year old shock.

Viscosity is measured in many, many different ways. (Not all in equally listed on the bottle)

Here is some good shock fluid for the good price-

http://www.maximausa.com/product/racing-shock-fluid/

3 WT. will be close to stock, 7 WT. is nice to compensate for shock body wear and give a bit more compression & rebound damping.

Again not all fluids are measured the same, there are many, many factors. (I could write a book on this, but it would be boring) :lol:

Please don't use ATF or Fork oil.

[phantomtracer]

Sounds like I need to replace the oil I used.

[nd4speed]

He is right, that Maxima shock oil 3wt is real close to stock KYB oil but the 7 wt would work too. I did not know the oil numbers for VI and cst@40C would be all over the place.

[onformula1]

Sounds like I need to replace the oil I used.

You can give it a try, the compression damping will be stiffer, which is not the end of the world, I would be more concerned with the rebound damping which may be more than you like/want.

If you are running a longer swing arm or stiffer spring the extra rebound will/may be helpful.

[onformula1]

He is right, that Maxima shock oil 3wt is real close to stock KYB oil but the 7 wt would work too. I did not know the oil numbers for VI and cst@40C would be all over the place.

Hint/fact IMHO the 100C rating (212 degrees) is the best rating.

Thicker or thinner weight fluid is not a huge problem especially when dealing with a shock that has too many bleeds or too much blowby.

Keep in mind the higher the viscosity the quicker the shock fluid will wear out / "sheer".

Thicker fluid will break down quicker than the typical 40-60 hour service interval.

It will also cause higher heat ranges.

Very, very thin- water like fluid will not "Stick" and cause accelerated to the shock components .

[barnett468]

Thanks for the info guys...I was going to look for 7 wt but guess 5 wt is what it calls for....$30 a quart...um wow.

You can buy a qt of the K2C oil at the link below for only $18.00 . . I have used them for other oils also on occasion because of their low prices.

http://www.theoilhub.com/130020010101_TECHNICAL_TOUCH_USA_INC__K2c_Rear_Sho ck_Oil_Kyb_Rcu_Oil_K2c_1_Qt?src=Google&gclid=CLil39v8scYCFZI2gQod1p4PLA

[barnett468]

.

The change in viscosity from 5 to 3 might sound small but it is a 40% reduction.

The increase from 5 to 7 is 40% as well.

The viscosity numbers at 40 c are not nearly as significant as the numbers at 100 c which is where the shock can get when ridden hard . . 40 c is only 104 f, and if your riding in the desert in the summer, the shock won’t be from that even before you ride it . . I know the 100 c numbers are important because I got the shock that hot during testing, and we also did this while doing telemetry and heat testing on the shocks on our MTS machine that we scavenged from the snowmobile department when they closed, lol.

If one is going to use a viscosity other than 5, I would suggest using the 7 unless you are just going to ride it pretty easy because the 7 weight will not only compensate for worn parts as onformula1 mentioned, one cam also reduce the damping rate of the shock by simply turning the knobs.

This being said, it is often possible to mix two viscosities of the same oil to get a different viscosity without any noticeable side effects, which in this case, mixing 3 and 7 would basically get you 5, however, in this particular case, I would definitely check with the mfg before doing this.

[onformula1]

I factor in shipping charges, some companies over charge for shipping,,, TCI

[barnett468]

.
.
hi onformula1, I was typing earlier and after I sent my post, I saw you had already posted, so had I seen it, it would have saved me the effort, lol . . I was also actually going to mention shear too, but thought what I posted was enough, however, now that I saw you mention it, I figured I might as well just add a few more details [that I’m sure you already know some if not all of] just in case someone was interested.

Single weight oils have little to no shear even when they are full mineral base . . The shear occurs primarily when viscosity improvers [polymers] are added to oil which is the case with mineral based oil and Group III synthetic oils, which is done to get the multi viscosity rating from them, however, the Group IV PAO and Group V based oils which include Esters, have few to no viscosity improvers, which means, depending on how they are blended, have little to absolutely no shear.

Until recently, PAO oils had an average viscosity index of around 140, however, due to new developments in PAO technology by Chevron, they have developed a super PAO oil called mPAO which has a viscosity index of around 200 . . This is the base oil that Joe Gibbs racing has been using since around 2012 and they say they have switched all their oils to this base since then.

This info might be helpful when choosing an engine oil, especially if it will be subjected to a lot of abuse and high heat like in hot weather in sand dunes and long races in hot weather etc.

[phantomtracer]

Thanks for the info, just ordered a qt of the kyb oil, with shipping it was 26.88

Any tips on refilling and bleeding the shock?
The first go around took awhile.

[phantomtracer]

219041

Finally finished the forks, well almost. I really need better looking fork caps. The ones I have are hacked up. Other than that it's all new genuine seals and bushings. The one seal that was unavailable rides on the inner damper rod, racetech was able to cross reference that to another part. I ended up staying with the originals as they were still flexible with no deep scratches.

Still looking for a plater, I had a guy and was about to make the drive to drop them off but the owner passed!!
Waiting for a Quote from another.

[phantomtracer]

Today was a good day!
Got my parts back from the plater.
220748

Now I can start finishing some parts.

220749

Ahhhh, satisfaction, seat foam is 1" thicker, cover fits great.220751

That Team Green cover can finally go on now that the seat pan hardware is plated.
220750

When installing the cover its a good idea to use stainless staples, factory size is 1/2"x 1/4" deep.
Don't pull the cover too tight, that can cause the seat pan to flex upward and increase the size of the space between the front of the seat and tank.

[tecaterob]

Looking awesome man... Keep up the great work!!!

[phantomtracer]

well, I finally finished the rear shock. Turns out I kept bleeding the shock and it would quickly become air bound. I found the brand new reservoir bladder had a slice in it! After replacing the bladder and bleeding the system all is good! The good news is I ended up making a nice bleed tool that makes it real easy to bleed a remote reservoir shock here on out.
I just glass beaded the brake components and painted them with high temp paint. Should go together quickly with all new seals.221511

Second photo is front brake master cylinder, i was able to purchase a replacement site glass on eBay, if anyone is interested just do a search. I will post the after pics once I install the site glass kit which only cost a few bucks.
221512

[tecaterob]

Nice work man, it's coming together really nice. Everytime I've tried to spray paint my calipers and I beed the brakes it screws up the paint. So be careful....

[phantomtracer]

221551221552221553

Had trouble installing piston dust seal, found the best way is to first install the seal onto the bottom on the brake piston and then install the other side of the seal into the caliper body while holding the piston just outside the piston bore, a little persuasion with a plastic tool helped to get it seated. Then slide the piston into the caliper until it bottoms out and the dust seal will automatically be pushed into the piston groove on the top. It's hard to explain but if anyone has struggled with this they will know what I mean.

[onformula1]

Did you grease the seals?

SF-3 works great

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

I used a silicone spray on the seals and synthetic grease for the slider pins.


A
Did you grease the seals?

SF-3 works great

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

222122

Finally found the correct rear piston seals for the master cylinder.
Should be a big step forward next week when I drop a bunch of stuff off to be blasted the painting it asap.

[barnett468]

.
Are you actually going to ever ride this beauty?

[phantomtracer]

.
Are you actually going to ever ride this beauty?

Thanks for the kind words, I hope to ride at the imperial invasion if I can make it out there.

[phantomtracer]

Powder coated spring and fender support http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/59bd7950c4246b6d84b560bdcd412af9.jpg

Media blasted parts, ready for paint!!!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/4a9b916b6f0ea0f0416c2c6e6f540e30.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barnett468]

.
Hey phantomtracer, I just happened across these photos that were taken of a new Tecate in our design studio . . I posted the link so you can see the color of the plating on some of the parts in case you still need that info.

http://www.atvrider.com/1986-kawasaki-tecate-kxt250-3-wheeler?image=0

[phantomtracer]

Thanks, I have been referring to them often.

Here is the finished shock with recently powder coated spring

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/19/02073855a3238a603d702f3937645ff9.jpg

Here is the newly painted swing arm.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/19/beaebeb1e656da1a846ac631e4b44c52.jpg

I'm about to mount the engine into the frame. Can't wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

What am I missing? Are there spacers?http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/b2f779f7bbd770453967ac8421033878.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John_Neary]

Looks like you are missing the "Ref.Frame Fitting" so yeah two metal plates are missing from this picture.

223039

[phantomtracer]

LOL!!!!!!
WOW!!!
Its been a long day.

Thanks for the help.
I will not post anymore today to avoid embarrassing myself.

[tecaterob]

And the buttom of those plates is what holds the shock.

[Dimitris]

Nice work friend Philip. Amazing build

[phantomtracer]

That's better!http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/23/328a50b39ad6ae467cca7b2aae1d8557.jpg

Thanks Dimitris!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

I overlooked two items, I am in need of upper shock mount spacers, part #92027-1871. Anyone willing to part with a set?

I found them!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phantomtracer]

223144

Still looking for the top shock mount spacers. Thought I found them, then realized they were not it.

[barnett468]

.
Do you have the seals?

If you cant get the spacers, you can have some made out of chromoly...oops, I meant delrin. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[tecaterob]

Sorry man, I looked today and couldn't find any extra one. I thought I had some...

[tecaterob]

Sorry man, I looked today and couldn't find any extra one. I thought I had some...

[phantomtracer]

Thanks for looking, I was able to order one, so maybe I will get lucky and find another. Otherwise, I will have it made.

I'm starting to realize I still have some small items that I need. Along with a a few large items!

[onformula1]

*EDIT- IMHO*

These spacers should be repopped, I know a few guys looking for them or will need them, but with so many guys switching to Delrin I don't think it would be worth the time and/or money.

Plus if you switch to a Delrin set-up on the lower shock end you eliminate the pounded out or smashed shock eyelet or worse shock body breakage, not to mention the shock kissing the swing arm.

Kawasaki/Kayaba really should have known better.

Heim= Not good for shock eyelets.

Rubber donut= Not good for shock eyelets.

[barnett468]

.
phantomtracer, the photo below is from a 1985 CR250, and from what I can see, every pivot uses either a spherical bearing or needle bearing or a bushing and a collar . . Strangely enough, I don't see one single elastomeric bushing . . This is also the case with the swing arm pivot . . I guess Honda and Showa "really should have known better" but apparently they didn't get the "memo" from their "engineer" . . I sure hope they are doing a better job nowadays. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Also, there is a very good reason why mfg's of QUALITY bikes and Formula 1 cars do NOT use Delrin for bushings, however, typically only an engineer would know why that is. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gifhttp://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gifhttp://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif

http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/honda/14KA4E/ILLUST/KA48F/1701.png

[barnett468]

.
oops....doesn't look like Yamaha got that memo either since they too use bearings in their shock eyes on their 1985 and 1986 YTZ250 3 wheelers, but perhaps it's because these are actual high performance vehicles?

SHOCK ABSORBER BEARING P/N 93399-99934-00

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/ATV/1985/TRI-Z+-+YTZ250N/REAR+SHOCKS/parts.html

[nd4speed]

Was able to find these after like 2 minutes of looking because I have owned 4.5 tecates and 3 86 KX250s.

I still have your address Phil. I can send you one and help instead of sitting around and being a troll.

[El Camexican]

.
oops....doesn't look like Yamaha got that memo either since they too use bearings in their shock eyes on their 1985 and 1986 YTZ250 3 wheelers, but perhaps it's because these are actual high performance vehicles?

SHOCK ABSORBER BEARING P/N 93399-99934-00

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/ATV/1985/TRI-Z+-+YTZ250N/REAR+SHOCKS/parts.html

Yep, exactly. I got mine with the stock bore and piston still in it and a couple linkage pins already had cracks. Great stuff. Wanna talk KTM style shock links? I don't unless its to trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro about how fast they wear out, what a PITA they are to change and how there are no lubrication provisions which might make them last forever. How can a helm joint hold lubrication? The shape alone sheds grease and there's no way to seal it. Over 10,000 miles on the swing arm bearings (still perfect) and I'm on the third lower bearing and second upper bearing in the past 6,000 miles.

Carry on.

[onformula1]

Yep, exactly. I got mine with the stock bore and piston still in it and a couple linkage pins already had cracks. Great stuff. Wanna talk KTM style shock links? I don't unless its to trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro about how fast they wear out, what a PITA they are to change and how there are no lubrication provisions which might make them last forever. How can a helm joint hold lubrication? The shape alone sheds grease and there's no way to seal it. Over 10,000 miles on the swing arm bearings (still perfect) and I'm on the third lower bearing and second upper bearing in the past 6,000 miles.

Carry on.

Nico, have you tried this kit?, I have heard good things about them from some big and or fast guys.

Back to the Tecate- Yeah, those heims get pounded flat pretty good and they lose lube like crazy.

On the bottom side of the shock the rubber bushing is just to soft, even a brand new OEM replacement is soft and they only get softer. Unfortunately I have thrown out a few Tecate shock bodies that have been damaged one was from topping out, one from hitting the bracket so hard it smashed/ovalized the eyelet 3/8", one it hit so hard it broke the shock body on both sides of the eyelet and the last one cracked in half at the eyelet, on that one I cut a mount off a old WP shock and had my buddy who welds gas tanker trailers up for a living and has the nickname "Roll of Coins" weld it, but the aluminum has a lot of impurities and is very difficult to weld properly so I stopped fixing them.

[nd4speed]

So that spacer is called a "heim"? and thats what gets pounded flat? I have one that looks like it is sorted smooshed a little on the large OD side. Maybe they are soft on purpose as not to damage more important things like the shock body? So only new ones ensure a seal to keep in grease. Well that is a bummer. If someone was to remake them proper I guess they should hardness test the metal and use appropriate materials? r just use something softer and easy like Delrin and replace more often?

Guess the shock was made to kinda float around on the bolts? Guess this is why this area is usually neglected and not maintained enough on a lot of bikes. I am no exception. I send you one of those shocks with body damage, but I bought it that way for parts. I wondered WTF happened to them.

Um, in the parts swap thread "upper shock spherical bearing can be replaced with a much cheaper neeled bearing. bearing number NA4900 UU $5 off ebay. you just have to use the stock bearing spacers and seals. fits perfect. will also fit the 84-85 t3 and the t4's"

Is this a bad idea to use needle bearing instead of spherical bearing? Probably since it not engineered that way.

[onformula1]

The heim is in a steel case behind the spacer, it is all pressed in and has a c-clip to hold it.

Those spacers are plated, most of the ones I have seen have the plating worn off and will have wear marks on the OD of the spacer, some fast and/or bigger guys will pound them slightly oval, a blown shock can also to the same thing.

If you were to replace them with delrin or similar material you could replace all the pieces, you could also run a steel sleeve in the center as well.

[El Camexican]

Nico, have you tried this kit?

Link? Is it the grease nipple bolt?

[onformula1]

Link? Is it the grease nipple bolt?

http://shop.synergyseals.com/KTM_c12.htm

[nd4speed]

Oh, never heard of heim is inner part of spherical bearing and you were talking about replacing the bearing with delrin? Ok.
http://rodendsupply.com/images/parts/wssx-t.png

[onformula1]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/27/f0dd9f36ca5fe034980f97c912afc3af.jpg

like this (Delrin bushing shown is not for a Tecate, but close)

[nd4speed]

oh that is pretty cool, not what I was picturing.

[barnett468]

.
Yes it would have been much better if all the mfg's used 100 year old technology elastomeric bushings in their National and World Championship Winning Enduro, MX and Road Race bikes. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Not, not all spherical bearings are created equal . . There are better ones available than ALL the mfg's used.

Nothing is intended to last forever which is why parts are made to be replaceable and mfg's have service intervals for them etc . . I have worn the spherical bearings on the shock out a few times and had to replace them, but it certainly wasn't a traumatic ordeal that required months of therapy for me to recover from.

It seems that no one seems to care if the rings or piston in their engine wears out after a while, but they freak out and wonder what happened if the swing arm bearing set up in their ATC250R wears out or seizes up so bad after THIRTY YEARS that they can't beat the pivot bolt out of it with a 20 pound sledge hammar. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/shrug.gif

I'm confident there are a huge percentage of Tecate's that are still running around with their original bearings in the shock and the bore in the shock for the bearings has NOT elongated and the shock has NOT hit anything etc.

If someone is just too incredibly un-intelligent to inspect their bike and do maintenance on it per the manual or maybe even just once every ten f'n years, then they deserve exactly what they get when it breaks.
. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/nopity.gif

Also, high perf vehicles get the crap beat out of them . . Jeff Wards and Ricky Carmichael's and Wayne Rainey's bikes were completely torn down, inspected, and serviced after every weekend . . The typical ATV rider might do that...NEVER.
http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thud.gif

Yes needle bearings are bitchen, however, I don't know why NONE of the mfg's used them . . There may some exotic street bike that does these days, however, if there is, I am unaware of it.

I cant answer for the Yamaha linkage since I had nothing to do with it, however, I can say that the linkage on the Tecate will never, ever break unless it gets run over by an 18 wheel semi.

Since the Tecate has been proven by every magazine that tested it to be a higher performance bike than both the 250R and YTZ, it only stands to reason that it might be subjected to a greater amount of abuse by its often negligent owner, however, I for one will gladly trade better performance for a little more maintenance anyway day of the week . . If one wants performance, why settle for a 1959 Cadillac Biarritz when they can have a Le Ferrari or a...."TECATE...THE MOST POWERFUL 3 WHEELER IN THE UNIVERSE".
. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/burnout.gif

[barnett468]

Oh, never heard of heim is inner part of spherical bearing and you were talking about replacing the bearing with delrin? Ok.

Heim joint or spherical heim joint or rose joint mean the same thing and describes the joint as a whole . . It does not refer to just one part of the joint . . The word heim is German and means home.

A tie rod end and ball joint are also types of spherical bearings.

Delrin is softer than steel and bronze and many other types of "plastics" and it can and will permanently deform . . If one were to use non metal bushings in this particular high load area as well as in place of bronze swing arm bushings or bearings, Carbon Graphite is a far better choice than Delrin . . These bushings should be secured with circlips also, especially since they are FAR more "slippery" than the factory ones . . I made the chart and price list below a little while ago so it would be easy to compare them all.

If you look at the cost per bushing for Delrin vs Carbon Graphite and then weigh that against the fact that it requires 34,000 pounds more force to permanently deform the Carbon Graphite, imo it seems that for the greatly increased strength and durability of the Carbon Graphite, it would be worth the additional paultry sum of only $3.34 per bushing . . It would then need an inner steel sleeve which is no big deal and wouldn't cost much and could be sealed in a few different ways . . It should also have thrust washers/spacers to keep the shock centered in the bracket so the shock body doesn't rub against it.


.....TYPE ……... Compressive strength …… Dynamic CF …….Hardness …… Tensile …. Wear …….. ME

SAE 954 BRONZE …… 22,000 psi* …………….. 0.37* … B17/RB83/R156 . 70,000 ….. N/A .. 14,000,000*
CARBON GRAPHITE*. 50,000 psi ……………..… Low ………………… N/A ……… 11,000 ….. Low …. 4,003,000
KETRON CM CA30 ….. 29,000 psi ………………. 0.20 …………. D93/M102 ….. 9,000 ….. 150 ….. 1,250,000
NYLUBE MO.…………... 14,500 psi .……………... 0.12 …………. D85 ……………. 12,300 ……. 32? ..…. 508,000
DELRIN AF [BLEND] . 16,000 psi ………………. 0.05 …………. M85/R115 ……. 8,000 ……. 57 ……... 485,000
DELRIN [POM-H] …… 16,000 psi ……………….. 0.25 ………….. D86/R122 …. 11,000 ….. 200 …….. 450,000
NYLON HS …………….. 14,000 psi …………….…. 0.39 ……………..D84 …………… 11,600 …. N/A …….. 478,600
ACETAL [POM-C] …… 11,000 psi ……………….. 0.21 ……………. NA/R86 ………. 8,800 …. 200 …….. 400,000


AVERAGE COSTS FOR 1 1/4” DIAMETER BAR/ROD . . Approximately 6 bearings per ft.

SAE 954 ……………………………… $45.00 per 12” …... 6 bearings ...... $9.00 per bearing.
CARBON GRAPHITE* …………..$30.00 per 12” ….… 6 bearings ….… $5.00 per bearing.
KETRON CM CA30 PEEK …… $414.00 per 30” …. 17 bearings .... $24.15 per bearing.
NYLUBE MO ………………………. $130.00 per 96” …. 55 bearings ...... $2.36 per bearing.
DELRIN AF [BLEND] …………… $50.00 per 12” ……. 6 bearings ...... $8.33 per bearing.
DELRIN [POM-H] ………………… $10.00 per 12” ……. 6 bearings ...... $1.66 per bearing.
NYLON HS …………………………… $25.00 per 12” …... 6 bearings ……… $4.46 per bearing.
ACETAL [POM-C] ………………….. $9.00 per 12” ….… 6 bearings ...... $1.50 per bearing.

*Price varies greatly depending on quality . . The price above would be for a slightly lower quality then the one posted in the specification category.

Just for some perspective for the specification chart, a million pounds lbs is roughly the equivalent of twenty, 1970 Cadillac Coupe De Villes including driver and a full tank of gas, and the ME numbers are pounds per square inch.

[barnett468]

Wanna talk KTM style shock links? I don't unless its to trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro about how fast they wear out, what a PITA they are to change and how there are no lubrication provisions which might make them last forever. How can a helm joint hold lubrication? The shape alone sheds grease and there's no way to seal it.
Carry on.

You don't need to grease the Kawi and Honda heims because they are “self lubricating” [just like Delrin is http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif] due to a self lubricating material that is sandwiched between the ball and the housing.

[barnett468]

Maybe they are soft on purpose as not to damage more important things like the shock body?

The ball inside of the heim and the outer casing itself are both any times harder than the aluminum of the shock body, and are not designed to protect the shock body from damage,



Guess the shock was made to kinda float around on the bolts?

The shock designed to be centered between the mounting brackets and never touch them . . The collars that phantomtracer needs along with the circlips retaining the heim are what keep the Tecate shock centered.



Um, in the parts swap thread "upper shock spherical bearing can be replaced with a much cheaper neeled bearing. bearing number NA4900 UU $5 off ebay. you just have to use the stock bearing spacers and seals. fits perfect. will also fit the 84-85 t3 and the t4's"

Someone on Ebay sells that exact p/n in a VXB brand for $14.95.

http://www.bearing-information.com/NA4900-UU-Needle-roller-Bearing-Information-10x22x14.htm


That exact same bearing can purchased directly from VXB for only $6.49

http://www.vxb.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?



Is this a bad idea to use needle bearing instead of spherical bearing? Probably since it not engineered that way.

I wouldn't but it's cheap enough to experiment with, however, the load rating of that bearing is only a wimpy 2,070 lbs . . The spherical heim bearing that Kawi and Honda uses on their high performance bikes which some others seem to think is trash, is approximately 10,000 lbs, which by my guestimate is just a little less than 5 times as much as the roller bearing in question.

In case anyone wants to "upgrade" to a heim that is better than the factory ones, they can be had near that size with a load rating of as much as around 19,000 lbs . . They are also available in a greaseless, self lubricating type, and metal to metal greaseable type.

[nd4speed]

Thanks for the massive amount of info. Wasnt saying the spherical bearing was soft, just the spacers. Anyway, I am clearly not an engineer or really have ever sat around trying to picture or figure out how these parts work together. I just put the parts where they need to go and ride the trikes. But I now have a better understanding of them, their origins /definitions, ratings, and how they work. Nice lecture.

I personally would not use a needle bearing in the place of this spherical bearing.

[barnett468]

.

Thanks for the massive amount of info. Wasnt saying the spherical bearing was soft, just the spacers.

No prob, you're welcome . . Sorry I misunderstood which part you were referring to, however the same thing goes for the spacers in that they are not "soft" per se and definitely weren't intentionally designed to allow anything to move . . In fact, if they were too soft, they would compress when they were tightened, which would not only deform them but it could also allow the bolt to loose its torque and come loose . . Although I don't know their exact hardness because we never had an issue with them, my guess is that they are the equivalent of US grade 8, if not, they definitely are at least the equivalent of US grade 5.

We actually had issues with several bolts coming loose during testing on the first gen prototype but they were all resolved.

That's also a kind offer you made to phantomtracer. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif


LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!
. . . http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/cheers.gif

[John_Neary]

@phantomtracer - Just got my radiators back from Myler's and honestly i am not impressed by their work, still some fins are bent and they repainted them when i asked to have them left unpainted and the clowns even got some paint down into the opening for the radiator cap.

Ill post some pics later when i do a update on the Rotax but overall their work was nothing special and not even remotely worth what i payed. I am sure if i had given them some bent and crushed radiators i would be more impressed but far as fine detail work go they pretty much sucked and wasted my time and money.

[phantomtracer]

@phantomtracer - Just got my radiators back from Myler's and honestly i am not impressed by their work, still some fins are bent and they repainted them when i asked to have them left unpainted and the clowns even got some paint down into the opening for the radiator cap.

Ill post some pics later when i do a update on the Rotax but overall their work was nothing special and not even remotely worth what i payed. I am sure if i had given them some bent and crushed radiators i would be more impressed but far as fine detail work go they pretty much sucked and wasted my time and money.

Thanks for the info, I will look for a different place.

[onformula1]

@phantomtracer - Just got my radiators back from Myler's and honestly i am not impressed by their work, still some fins are bent and they repainted them when i asked to have them left unpainted and the clowns even got some paint down into the opening for the radiator cap.

Ill post some pics later when i do a update on the Rotax but overall their work was nothing special and not even remotely worth what i payed. I am sure if i had given them some bent and crushed radiators i would be more impressed but far as fine detail work go they pretty much sucked and wasted my time and money.

What the heck is going on lately???

I have seen and/or used Myler radiators & Jemco pipes in the past, but now the work is not primo anymore?

[John_Neary]

I have never had radiators worked on before so maybe i was expecting to much but for $160 + shipping i was not even slightly impressed by the results, hell they did not even match the paint worth a crap as Honda radiators are no where near as shiny as these are now.

I payed half the cost of what brand new radiators would of been and all i got was a couple re-welded spots and a piss poor paint job. Gonna take them to a metal surface shop here in town next week and have them remove the paint properly.

[onformula1]

I have never had radiators worked on before so maybe i was expecting to much but for $160 + shipping i was not even slightly impressed by the results, hell they did not even match the paint worth a crap as Honda radiators are no where near as shiny as these are now.

I payed half the cost of what brand new radiators would of been and all i got was a couple re-welded spots and a piss poor paint job. Gonna take them to a metal surface shop here in town next week and have them remove the paint properly.

It just seems like the quality of work has dropped a few levels recently with a few companies right when trikes and 2 stroke MX bikes are making a strong comeback.

[barnett468]

.
Shoulda sent it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkdtOOYdQOs

[phantomtracer]

Picked up this Bills silencer, needs a new sticker. Anyone ever make these before?223514

Looks like blue line graphics has it.

[onformula1]

Rare, excellent silencer!

Nice score.

[phantomtracer]

Rare, excellent silencer!

Nice score.

Thanks, it has a dent, but I think I can work it out. I'm going to have the stock expansion chamber ceramic coated. I was trying to stay with factory coatings but I don't think you will be able to tell.

[tecaterob]

You should be able to fix the dent. Doesn't the back come off with rivets? Fix dent from the inside get rid of all scratches like you are going to polish it. Then ceramic coat it in black and you have a stock look. Just my .02..

[barnett468]

You should be able to fix the dent. Doesn't the back come off with rivets? Fix dent from the inside get rid of all scratches like you are going to polish it. Then ceramic coat it in black and you have a stock look. Just my .02..

OMG...that would be blasphemy to do to a piece of aluminum . even though his bike is stock Concours show piece, i would anodize that sucker so it looked like chrome even though it doesnt match the theme of the bike . . it will give people just one more thing to stare in amazement at as they behold his marvelous example of "The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3Wheeler In The World!". :)

[phantomtracer]

I'm going to coat the expansion chamber and just cleanup the silencer. I'm going for stock with a number plate. If I could do an old school racer I would, but the parts are nowhere to be found or are way outside my budget.

[phantomtracer]

I mounted a Kenda front max tire size 23x8x11
I had to use a strap around the tire and a Hunter tire machine that had a bead blaster.
Actually, I just watched as a friend did it for me. I can't imagine trying to mount this any other way unless you wanted to try the explosion method.

[barnett468]

I can't imagine trying to mount this any other way unless you wanted to try the explosion method.

That way looks like more fun though.

[nd4speed]

Hopefully your Front Max wasnt all folded over to reduce shipping size like mine (for 84 T3) was. It was folded over for so long it had a deformed bump in it and since I sold it, I am not even sure the bump ever went away over time.

I only took mine to a tire shop since the dealer I bought my Sand Stars from bent my blue label rim with what I can guess was a standard tire pry bar lever contraption. They refunded my money on the rim and I just rode it that way cause I knew I would bang them up some anyway, and I did.

[86T3]

Picked up this Bills silencer, needs a new sticker. Anyone ever make these before?223514

Looks like blue line graphics has it.

Blueline made that decal for me, it came out perfect.

[phantomtracer]

Need some help from someone that has a tecate.
When I go to torque the uni-track dog bone bolts i see the rocker starting to bend. I have not continued on but I am wondering if the nut is designed to bottom out where the threads stop? There are no spacers to take up the extra space to the dog bone can be moved from side to side. Is that normal?

Also, does the exhaust hit the frame? It looks like it's real close.
224273

[phantomtracer]

Front wheel porn224274

[barnett468]

.
Hey... whats up . . The nut should not stop on the shoulder of the bolt . . the shoulder of the bolt should go a little more than half way thru the rocker . . there should not be more than around 1 mm of play between the rocker and the sides of the shock and strut . . if there is like 6 mm, you have the wrong collars or the rocker has been bent outward which i would find extremely unlikely.

basically once the bolts are tightened at the factory it squeezes the rocker together so when the bolts are removed, the rocker is almost snug on the shock and strut.

Happy Thanksgiving
.

[barnett468]

.
Well, the pipe didn't hit the frame on the pre-production model, but then the magnets didn't fly off the flywheel on it either. http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/hysterical.gif

There should be two rubber buttons in those two holes on the tailpipe tabs and the tabs should be a perfect 90 degrees to the ground and yours are not quite.

http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/kawasaki/09/0203/B-5.png

[phantomtracer]

Thanks Barnett, I'll take a picture of the strut to better illustrate what I mean. In the pic the tabs look bent but they are straight. I have the rubber bumpers, I just haven't installed them yet.
Happy Thanksgiving!

[barnett468]

.xlnt, photos may help.

nice detail, also nice tire . . almost looks like a new kenda max.

[barnett468]

.
if that is an aftermarket fender, it may have a lower melting point than the stock one, so sticking a piece of thermal insulation on it might be a good idea if you get your pipe away from the frame enough to get closer t the fender.

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/8c43129df120af1e14e76da26fb994b9.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/7e75508c86d22fbbc55632f0c9624dd4.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/6a1ae71127421e9ac21845f903be20b4.jpg

Am I missing something? Am I supposed to rely on the nut bottoming out on the bolt threads? My fear is its bending the mounts too close together. My guess is the thickness of the paint is causing this. Comments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barnett468]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/8c43129df120af1e14e76da26fb994b9.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/7e75508c86d22fbbc55632f0c9624dd4.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/6a1ae71127421e9ac21845f903be20b4.jpg

Am I missing something? Am I supposed to rely on the nut bottoming out on the bolt threads? My fear is its bending the mounts too close together. My guess is the thickness of the paint is causing this. Comments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your photos are a little too close for me tell whats going on.

Do you have items 10 ?

These will stick out beyond the strut by around 1 mm only . . If the heim joint isn't centered in the strut, te side of the rocker will touch the side of the strut on one side and the collar will stick out o the other ide by 2 mm instead of 1 etc.

http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/kawasaki/09/0203/D-6.png

[barnett468]

oops . . pushed the wrong button, but after a few thousand posts, I am still not worthy of having an edit button so I will just add another one.

Do you have part number 11012A?

[barnett468]

.
You absolutely do NOT want to be squeezing the shock tas on the swingarm together, no way, no how.

if you have the collars i mentioned and yu have a .5 mm or greater space between the strut and the tabs on the arm, something is very wrong and you will need to steel shims in to take up the space.

The nuts on those bolts should never, ever, bottom on the shoulder of the bolts.

[barnett468]

.
The amount of penetration of the shoulder into the swingarm tab on the lower strut bolt is correct.

[nd4speed]

not sure these will help, but um, where are the part numbers 11012A? They can be seen in the first picture.

[phantomtracer]

Yes, I have 11012a, but there is still a bit of side play. Is there supposed to be zero clearance in the two joints for the strut?

[barnett468]

Is there supporting set to be no clearance in the two joints for the strut?

I don't understand your question.

[barnett468]

.
Are your heim joints original?

If all your pats are original and installed, then I would just install shims to take up the gap on the swingarm end.

If there is just 2 mm side play on the top between the rocker, use shims or just tighten the not . . the rocker can flex in a bit with no harm being done but you do not want to do that with the tabs on the swing arm, its just not kosher.
.

[barnett468]

.
Jesus, at least I spelled Kosher right.

[phantomtracer]

Yes, the heim joints are original. I guess I'm trying to figure out why I have play. I'll take another picture. I shouldn't have to make shims unless something is wrong

[barnett468]

I shouldn't have to make shims unless something is wrong

In a perfect world this is correct with the swingarm, however, it's obviously not a perfect world, but I still have never seen more than 1 mm of clearance between the swingarm tabs and the strut with the spacers/collars installed . . This being said, it is possible that you got a swingarm on which the tabs for the strut were welded on slightly farther apart than they should be which is unlikely but it is what it is . . If this is the case, the tabs will bend inward when you tighten the nut and it will clamp down on the strut as it was designed to, but if this is the case, I would correct the mistake with shims instead of simply forcing the tabs inward because this will increase the stress on them which will increase the chance that they will develop cracks where they are welded to the arm.

Another thing to check with the tabs is that they are close to a perfect 90 degrees to the srut . . If they are bent outwards from 90 degrees slightly, it is s long as they are very close to 9o when the nut is tightened . . If the sides of the tab are not square to the collars.spacers when everything is tight, the nut can loosen more easily.

The rocker is made with a plus tolerance only per se, meaning it could be anywhere from maybe .5 mm to maybe 3 mm wider than the strut with the spacers/collars installed installed before the nut is tightened . . When the rocker is 3 mm wider, the sides of the rocker will compress when the nut is tightened, and when the nut is loosened, they sometimes spring back slightly but will never spring back as far as their original position.

As I mentioned, the spacers/collars must stick out beyond the strut slightly . . If you put a straight edge on the side of the strut and any of the spacers/collars do not stick out beyond the strut, your heim joint must be off center because the heim and spacers.collars are hard enough that they will not crush/compress no matter how tight the nut is torqued.

You can stick a feeler gauge between the strut to check the exact amount of clearance and I can you the best option.

In case you haven't thought of it, recheck the torque on all the major fasteners after a brief ride and then again throughout the day . . Torque them all to the factory recommended spec . . I spent countless hours doing nut and bolt torque setting testing until I finally got them to stop loosening during testing and these are the specs that are in the manual . . This doesn't mean that they will never loosen but it means that at the very least, they did not loosen a significant amount between the recommended service intervals etc.

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/191851d9b19331905f122020e2aca6b1.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/f4bda07a9cfb28ad500597cac4f4eff2.jpg

The swingarm mount to strut clearance is 2mm. The top rocker clearance to strut is 3mm. If I tighten the top strut bolt it starts to bend the rocker tabs. It definitely isn't right. I know the easy answer is to add shims but I am trying to see where I went wrong. Can someone take a closeup pic?
Thanks


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[barnett468]

Phil, check how far your spacers/collars stick out beyond the strut . . I can't see any spacer/collar in the images, so it "looks" like they are not installed, however this is possibly a product of the photo.

Also with the spacers/collars installed in the strut, put the caliper over them and measure the distance and maybe nd4speed or Tecaterob or another Tecate guy will see your post and can measure theirs so you can compare that distance also.

The only thing you could have done "wrong" is not install spacers.collars, or install the wrong ones and possibly installed the heim slightly off center.

[barnett468]

.
Also, I now see and remember that the strut mount on the swingarm is one piece machined from billet stock and I guarantee you that that inner clearance will never be wrong because it is either machined or extruded . . They would actually have to change the bit or the form to change its id and that just wouldn't happen which means that in the case of the lower mount, the problem should to lie in the width of the heim and/or spacers, but obviously you'll only know for certain once all the measurements are verified by others.

[barnett468]

.
Can you post a photo of your collars/spacers?

Here's a better photo of the correct collars/spacers that nd4speed posted . . They are at least 5 mm thick and are double lipped with a small gap between the seal lips . . The collar/spacer extends beyond the seal slightly on both sides and are the same as the ones used on the KX250.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Mv0AAOSwx~JWE--6/s-l1600.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/X5oAAOSwNNxWE--1/s-l1600.jpg

[phantomtracer]

Yes the spacers are installed the just barely protrude past the outside of the dog bone. I measured the spacer thickness at 4.99mm
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/15041d1ca9f6a70129ee75a9083d6061.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/1b2aefe638fa9ba73152c90e3dcd75a0.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barnett468]

.
Does the spacer stick out on both sides of the seal?

Are these the same parts you took off of it?

[barnett468]

.
Phil, I forgot, measure the width of the strut also . . If it is more than 26.0 mm wide, your problem is definitely in your spacers or heim as I mentioned.

[barnett468]

.
Ok, the spacers/collars on the rocker arm pivot may be a different thickness because they are a different part number, so if ALL your spacers/collars, are original, you may have one rocker arm pivot spacer/collar in the top of the dog bone and one in the bottom or something like that.

I would measure the thickness of all the spacers/collars.

[phantomtracer]

All four spacers are the same part number. 11012a
They all measure 4.99-5mm
Only one side is raised above the seal.


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[barnett468]

.
ok, but the strut rod thickness may help shed some light on the dilemma.

i would also send need4speed or tecate rob or dare i say it....glamy a pm and ask if they can measure their spacercollars on the strut . . f they are the same width as yours, your heim joints must be are narrower than the originals . . if your spacers are narrower, they are wrong . . if they were new in a kawi package they are still wrong and were mis-packaged.

you should be able to rnyrhamnmaye bkm a pm and ask him f

[barnett468]

Forget the last line above.

[86T3]

Something is messed up, the spacers should stick out past the sides of the dogbone. Take a picture of the ends of your dogbone with the spacers removed

[86T3]

I ran downstairs and got a picture, not sure if it really helps but the dogbone should be able to rotate around 10 degrees to each side.you either have the wrong spacers or your dogbone is messed up. 224383

[Twittle]

I'm pretty sure you have the wrong spacers on there. I just went and measured a set of spacers off mine and they are all right about 6.5 mm thick and with them installed on the link end the overall width is about 29.7 mm.

[barnett468]

.
ok, if the inside of the hole on your spacers/collars has a lip on it which it looks like it might, they are definitely wrong . . if they have a lip on one side only, they are for the rocker arm p/n 11012-1207.

[barnett468]

.
if you post a photo of the inside of the spacers/collars from both sides, we can tell for sure if they are for the rocker arm or not which i'm gona bet the one in the photo with the calipers is.

[barnett468]

.
ok, if yours are recessed inside like any of these they are rocker arm caps and will not work.


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/z/~X4AAOSwv0tVDVmE/$_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/cf8AAOSwvc9WFabi/$_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$%28KGrHqZHJB!E9!gT!2N8BPgfscEzZQ~~60_57.JPG

[Twittle]

I didn't think about it while I was out in my shop but I wonder if the ones he has on right now that are only 5mm thick are from the shock instead. I will check mine tomorrow and compare.

[barnett468]

I didn't think about it while I was out in my shop but I wonder if the ones he has on right now that are only 5mm thick are from the shock instead. I will check mine tomorrow and compare.

There aren't any on the shock . . The shocks use torsional bushings unless they changed the design, but great info on the measurement . . That caused me to go back and look more closely at his photo and it looks like there is a lip on the inside of his, which if this is the case, they are for the rocker and all he needs to do is go to Evil bay and buy the right ones or see if someone here has some.
.

[Red Rider]

I just went and measured a set of spacers off mine and they are all right about 6.5 mm thick...6.5mm - 4.9mm = 1.6mm
1.6mm x 2 = 3.2mm
There's your 3mm gap right there.

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/58ccf8ebbdce496236d626e7f2c06f6d.jpg

Mystery solved!!!!!
I had the wrong spacers. Thanks for everyone's help. I included a picture of the correct one on the right (6.4mm) and the incorrect one on the left (4.99mm). The difficulty was I purchased the incorrect ones off eBay and they came packaged in the factory wrapping. So I really felt they would be correct.
Thanks again.


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[barnett468]

.
Most xlnt . . Yeah, not much you can do about mis-packaged parts if you don't have anything to compare to . . Hopefully this is the last mystery you will have.

[barnett468]

.
You can also see that the collar on the one on the left does not extend beyond the seal on the bottom side like the one on the right does which is why I asked you if it did extend beyond the seal near the same on both sides because they used two different strut rod spacers between the models.

[Twittle]

Glad it got all figured out. Hopefully you have enough of the correct ones now?

[phantomtracer]

Yeah, I have eight to choose from!


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[barnett468]

Glad it got all figured out. Hopefully you have enough of the correct ones now?

You measuring yours was a big help.

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/18/8db9f1b5f26174f8607dec830ee8b3ab.jpg

Had a big moment today, she is now standing on her own. Just a few loose ends left, the biggest being the reconditioning of the radiators.


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[Jmoozy27]

Looks sharp!!

[tecaterob]

Looking good. I don't think I've ever since a seat cover with the stitching on the side like that.

[fieldy]

Are you working on the radiators yourself ? I was wondering if newer KX 250 or 500 radiators could be made to work without welding aluminum. I have 30 year old stock KXT ones, just have little confidence in them.
Did you put a heavier duty shock springs on it? Nice!

[phantomtracer]

Are you working on the radiators yourself ? I was wondering if newer KX 250 or 500 radiators could be made to work without welding aluminum. I have 30 year old stock KXT ones, just have little confidence in them.
Did you put a heavier duty shock springs on it? Nice!

I bought two sets of kxt radiators and picked the best ones from that. I have a nice set that is not bent at all. The fins need a bit of straightening and a fresh coat of paint but that's it. All the sets I see on eBay are really beat. I've heard the China copies do not fit well and some say they do not last long. I think the best option is sending the oem radiators to a custom radiator shop so they can make new copies. I think it would be a miracle if a newer set of kx radiators would fit without modifications. Maybe that would be a good way to start with a later model and have that modified to fit. It you have a decent set of radiators maybe drop them off at a shop to inspect for cracks and pressure test it.

[phantomtracer]

It's the stock spring from what I can tell.

[phantomtracer]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/19/546568136d34b0427db4c00d3d85a783.jpg

Anyone have a a set of these?
Not even sure what it does. Are they aluminum/steel? Rubber?




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[barnett468]

.
partzilla claims they have them.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/kawasaki/KP-92027-1850.html

[phantomtracer]

Yeah, partzilla does not update their inventory. I'll try them again, but almost everything I have ordered from them I'm told it's no longer available.

[fieldy]

Those pieces may be the same as a kx handlebar mount, a few years newer.

[phantomtracer]

225412225413

Getting closer!
The radiator shroud fits nice! That's a hornet powersports set, I think thats who made them.
The grab bar took some grinding to fit correctly. The thickness of the grab bar mount hits the fender mount because it's too thick. Not a big deal but it did require some grinding of the grab bar.
I'm still straightening the right side radiator fins. I think I figured out a way to straighten them, I'll post pics if it works out.

[DohcBikes]

This build is fantastic. I have followed closely even through my ban. Best thing on 3WW right now.

Great job phantomtracer.

[phantomtracer]

227170

This worked out well to straighten the radiator fins. I took two fairly thick feeler gauges and grinded them down so they would be a bit smaller than the width of one fin. What you do is take a feeler gauge and push it through from the good side. Then do the same with another feeler gauge to the adjacent fin. Then you can squeeze them together to straighten the fin. You keep alternating down the line. Hope this helps others

[phantomtracer]

227171
This was taken two weeks ago. She fired up on the second kick!!!!!
I still had to bleed the brakes so I couldn't take it for a spin.
I just bleed the brakes today but with all the snow I'm waiting to take it for a spin until things clear up.
Also wired the kill switch.
Still need to find a rivet for the shifter tip and that's about it

[barnett468]

Still need to find a rivet for the shifter tip and that's about it

Do you have a rived press?

Why don't you just use a bolt and nut?

[phantomtracer]

I'm going to use a bolt for now, but I have a guy that is going to make the rivet for me.
I think the bolt is kinda cheesy.

[barnett468]

I'm going to use a bolt for now, but I have a guy that is going to make the rivet for me.
I think the bolt is kinda cheesy.

You still need a rivet press.

You can use this if you want . . Socket head cap [flat head] screws . . Cut it so it sticks out the bottom by around 1/4".

http://p.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/B1049828834/Screw.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E393oUZLL._SX342_.jpg[/quote]


Then use a jam nut with blue loctite because they are thin and self locking.

[img]http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1pq25HVXXXXcTXVXXq6xXFXXXN/100pcs-lot-1-4-20NC-x-7-16-x-5-32-font-b-Hex-b-font.jpg

[barnett468]

POST EDIT POST BECAUSE I HAVE NO EDIT BUTTON

both screws can be had in black also.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E393oUZLL._SX342_.jpg