4130 Chromoly Frame ATC250R

[Mr. Clean]

Not mine and I have no affiliation with the builder/seller of these frames. I am also not on the social media website I affectionately call "Faceplant" which apparently this was from.

"Dave Moore Facebook" account has details, maybe one of you with an account can dig and get details. Seems the frame runs $700 and is fully compatible with ATC250R OEM parts and allows for big bores, in frame pipes etc and is 13.5 lbs lighter than OEM.

[Red Rider]

Nice fab work, but I don't know, it just looks a little flimsy to me.

[Buster Brown]

Barbed wire and field background makes for a cool pic. Nice looking frame!

[El Camexican]

Nice fab work, but I don't know, it just looks a little flimsy to me.

I was thinking it looked stronger that a brick poop house:lol: They make helicopters and Top Fuel dragsters out of that tube.

[manbearpig]

Very intrigued

[Jwheeler]

Its a tuff looking frame.

[Super350]

I just had Dave to some work for me but other than that I don't know him personally....all I can say is VERY professional, easy, straight up guy to deal with. He told me about these frames and said they were an idea about 12 yrs in the making!

[manbearpig]

whats the price tag on one of these?

[Mr. Clean]

whats the price tag on one of these?

The information I got from TRX250r.net stated $700 bucs.

[oscarmayer]

the thing i noticed was not all the spots were weld re-enforced. meaning that there were areas they did a spot welding style and left gaps where the pieces came together rather than a full length weld across the entire connection point. in my books for strength you have to have that weld complete. i have seen many times in all types of frames (atv, trike, cars) where partial welds cracked under stress over time and they would not have had the fab shop finished the welding. So for anyone getting one. FINISH the welding up is important for stability and strength.

rest looks awesome and very well put together. that was the only think i could see. once would think, they would offer up some minor tweaks like taller frame or slightly longer if preferred.

[Mr. Clean]

the thing i noticed was not all the spots were weld re-enforced. meaning that there were areas they did a spot welding style and left gaps where the pieces came together rather than a full length weld across the entire connection point. in my books for strength you have to have that weld complete. i have seen many times in all types of frames (atv, trike, cars) where partial welds cracked under stress over time and they would not have had the fab shop finished the welding. So for anyone getting one. FINISH the welding up is important for stability and strength.

rest looks awesome and very well put together. that was the only think i could see. once would think, they would offer up some minor tweaks like taller frame or slightly longer if preferred.

<-------------Taken from TRX250r.net------------>

***Taken from Dave Moore's Facebook post***

"Well it only took me 20 years to get around to this project but here it is. ATC 250r (85-86) chassis made from 4130 with high profile removable and adjustable subframe, with increased room for spark plug when using large aftermarket cylinder, and increased room for large carb and air filter. Fits stock radiators, fuel tank, rear plastic, and seat. Will fit in frame pipe, stock foot pegs, and rear brake lever. Can be set up to take Pro-Link rear suspension or the Inter-Link suspension I designed for the Bullet Chassis. The jig I built will allow me to add or delete different parts so I can custom fit the chassis to different applications. As pictured, it weighs 13.5 lbs less than stock. I want to thank Nic McMillin, Kaysen McMillin for letting me use his chassis to mock up the jig. It's awesome that I already have orders for 3 of them. I will say this, even if I only just built this one, it was amazing putting my brain back to work to see what I could come up with. Thanks 250R people for keeping the R world alive and racing!"

"Dave has said he can make adjustments such as adding an additional rear motor mount bar so that you can run the 88/89 TRX250R swingarm, different footpeg mount options, etc"

I took a quick look at his website and he offers swingarms for 250rs' His work looks top notch for sure and again I have no affiliation with this builder, I just personally think this is very cool.

[83ATC185]

I would really like to see that frame neck welded completely. Other than that it looks awesome!

[sanchez]

Is it stronger up in the steering neck for the invert front fork upgrade, u know the places the Honda frames crack
This is not a knock to the stitch welding (code calls for stitching like that) but at 13 lb lighter
IS IT STRONGER IN THE RIGHT PLACES

I want one but I wana see a big guy thrash on one to see if it is "BETTER"

[El Camexican]

Hard to believe it can sell for only $700. A good drag bike swing-arm (solid mounted on struts, no bearings) sells for more than that today: http://www.pmfronline.com/chassis_components2.php I would have figured at least 2 large for that frame.

[Billy Golightly]

yeah I thought it was dirt cheap also - I've got to admit, looking at it, there is A LOT of time saving and easier ways to do things from the OEM frame that hes done here (which isn't a bad thing!) That helps contribute to that I'm sure, but I sure has heck wouldn't try to build one for $700. Not even $1400...

[El Camexican]

yeah I thought it was dirt cheap also - I've got to admit, looking at it, there is A LOT of time saving and easier ways to do things from the OEM frame that hes done here (which isn't a bad thing!) That helps contribute to that I'm sure, but I sure has heck wouldn't try to build one for $700. Not even $1400...

I know a guy with modified 250R engine that would look great in that frame.;)

[Billy Golightly]

That would be pretty neato

[tecaterob]

I wonder if there's enough room for a 450 motor. I'm going to reach out to him to find out. I would do that..

[Mr. Clean]

More pics from trx250r.net

There was also a discussion which stated "he said that he could weld the rear linkage mount in so that if the buyer wanted, they could use the entire TRX450R linkage set up from swingarm to shock to frame."

I tried on Mrs. Cleans faceplant account to find more information with no luck.

That mock up tank needs to be polished.

[Mr. Clean]

Hard to believe it can sell for only $700. A good drag bike swing-arm (solid mounted on struts, no bearings) sells for more than that today: http://www.pmfronline.com/chassis_components2.php I would have figured at least 2 large for that frame.

Search for Dave Moore racing. His swingarms range from 350-450 according to the site made of 1.5 inch 4130 chromoly.

Very reasonable price with bearings installed in my opinion.

[250rmanfmf]

You cant go wrong at 700 bucks. HRE was building 250r frames for $2,200. Not saying HRE is too expensive but it just shows the price difference on what we are use to. Even if people here are saying the frame needs to be finish welded, then people buying this frame with doubts just plan on completing the welds. Here it is people, finally a affordable chromoly 250r frame. Unless the people that get them start experiencing workmanship issues on the frame, lets support him. I am looking into his swingarms. great prices.

[The_Steve_Man]

Honestly if you look at the frame there really isn't a lot to it. And what I mean is he made the jig and he said he has the tubing laser cut so that takes a lot of labor out. $700 is an amazing price. I would gladly pay $1200 for one. He spent a lot of time in devlopement, which is worth a lot. It sounds like he is doing for love of the R and not for money.

[ironchop]

$700 is a STEAL!!! Period.

I`ve built a couple bike frames from scratch plus worked @ RC Components where we built frames for custom builds (ours msrp`ed for 2800 and up). There is a lot of work that goes into frame building and you can scrap one merely by welding it in the wrong order. I saw quite a few frames built by new guys who think frame jigs are capable of keeping welds from pulling and therefore they would tig one whole side at a time. Once you pulled it out of the frame table, it would "spring" and the neck would no longer run parallel or the hardtail would have one leg run higher than the other side, etc. Frames look deceptively easy but truth is he`s got a lot of R&D, trial and error, and forethought to make a frame that nice.

[ironchop]

I would really like to see that frame neck welded completely. Other than that it looks awesome!

I`m sure it is.....underneath that gusset.....no need for the neck gusset to get a full weld if you have welded the neck tube to the backbone and downtube both already

[oscarmayer]

I ain't knocking his workmanship. he did a nice job on it and it is a nice piece. I agree. if someone wants to be certain they can get it finish welded for cheap probably $100 or less if it makes them feel better. other than that, I say thumb's up!

[El Camexican]

I ain't knocking his workmanship. he did a nice job on it and it is a nice piece. I agree. if someone wants to be certain they can get it finish welded for cheap probably $100 or less if it makes them feel better. other than that, I say thumb's up!

Solid weld is not always better than stitches and the man who built that is an artist, not some hack who doesn't know how to finish his welds.

If you take that frame and add weld to it improperly it will twist and bend. Such is the relationship between steel and heat. Then you'll need to look around for someone with a torch, bucket of water and a rag to get it straight again and you'd better hope they know what their doing.

I hope someone here buys one.

[bad to the bone]

that is a nice frame

[Billy Golightly]

Solid weld is not always better than stitches and the man who built that is an artist, not some hack who doesn't know how to finish his welds.

If you take that frame and add weld to it improperly it will twist and bend. Such is the relationship between steel and heat. Then you'll need to look around for someone with a torch, bucket of water and a rag to get it straight again and you'd better hope they know what their doing.

I hope someone here buys one.

Yeah, I'm lead to believe that it was very meticulously welded that way so as to prevent war-page. Sometimes people look at factory frames and see tabs and gussets and think they should be finish welded, but they are intentionally done that way. Aaand...sometimes they aren't too :lol: But this thing is so carefully crafted everywhere else - it has its reasons I'm sure.

[El Camexican]

Yeah, I'm lead to believe that it was very meticulously welded that way so as to prevent war-page. Sometimes people look at factory frames and see tabs and gussets and think they should be finish welded, but they are intentionally done that way. Aaand...sometimes they aren't too :lol: But this thing is so carefully crafted everywhere else - it has its reasons I'm sure.

On that note... For a few years I was tasked with putting together welded suspension components for MCI prototypes. Basically they would give you detailed drawings and you would build the parts by hand all the while thinking of ways to tool up for the real deal and do the work in the most efficient way. Then there would be regular meetings in which you would get face time with the engineers that you use to ask for changes to better accommodate production, or lower costs. It was like being in a room full of Barnetts:eek:.

Once you had a few prototypes complete they would put them on what they called a "Shaker" (never got to see it). I believe it was a hydraulic powered fixture that could simulate road miles. Each prototype would spend a week or so on the Shaker and then if needed we'd get a revised set of drawings and start again.

Anyway, my point was that by the time we'd get designs approved it seemed that anything over 1/2" thick was always solid welded and anything 3/16" and under was always stitched 1/4" and 3/8" materials could go either way depending on the stress points they covered.

At the end of the day and for the purpose of the frame in question here, if a crack begins in a solid weld it will eventually crack the entire length. If a single stitch cracks the crack stops when it runs out. It's the same principal as drilling a hole in a crack, except you are building the hole into the design. It also allows a minuet amount of flex to the largest component in the assembly without the risk of cracking shorter parts attached to it.

[Poco Loco]

You never hear anybody speak of shot peen. I worked in a shop where we did shot peen on aircraft parts. That would be a great investment to a freshly built raw frame. It releaves any stress in the steel from welding, reduces cracks drastically and is affordable.

[El Camexican]

You never hear anybody speak of shot peen. I worked in a shop where we did shot peen on aircraft parts. That would be a great investment to a freshly built raw frame. It releaves any stress in the steel from welding, reduces cracks drastically and is affordable.

Good point Sr. Loco. We had a stress relief oven large enough to fit a 5 ton dump truck inside. It's main function we stress reliving electric motor housings, but we also used it to stress relive billets for some larger frame components and on all our jigs before we machined them. It makes all the difference in the world to the finished part.

I think shot peening is as you say would be a great option for light walled stuff like this frame in this thread. We contemplated putting some used chromoly bike frames in the oven, but decided they would likely come out like pretzels:lol: The trick there is to relive the welds with a torch one at a time, but I never had the nerve to try it on an otherwise good frame.

[badass350x]

I have been talking to Dave about building this same exact frame only for the cr500 since there's already more motor room in this frame! He is a little worried about vibration but is looking into it.. we shall see soon!

[bkm]

I see one of these in bkm's future.

[JasonB]

interested in the cr500 motor option lol.

[poohbee1]

Anybody know what fork rake this is 85 ,86 or something else?

[slashfan7964]

That's a good question. Probably 85 but no way of knowing.

[bkm]

According to Dave, his jig was built off an 86 frame.

[250rRoostmaster]

I'm saving up for one of these. I hope to have one before summer if he's done with testing. I emailed him yesterday to ask a few questions.

His answer is as follows- "The chassis is based from the 86 ATC and the weight depends on the version of the chassis. The Drag-Lite chassis for dunning and drag racing will end up about 13lbs lighter then stock with the MX version being about 6 lbs lighter then stock . I cant give a date as of yet when they will be available to buy because it all depends on how the testing goes. I'm building 3 test chassis so we will see how it goes. I wont stop until i have the chassis fitting and working like i want it to. - Dave

I'm freakin stoked about this and can't wait until he's ready to put them into production!! I will have one as soon as they are ready!

[pantera1975]

So Will this hold up for a 200 pound guy trail riding and private land riding this frame with inverts?

[onformula1]

"The chassis is based from the 86 ATC and the weight depends on the version of the chassis. The Drag-Lite chassis for dunning and drag racing will end up about 13lbs lighter then stock with the MX version being about 6 lbs lighter then stock.

I would go with the MX version, If your at Glamis jumping dune to dune, jumping the gaps or jumping the canal, I would want the heavier frame.

[socs28]

I saw it asked but not answered about room for a 450 motor in it? By the pics I'm guessing no, but that would be awesome.

[tecaterob]

I saw it asked but not answered about room for a 450 motor in it? By the pics I'm guessing no, but that would be awesome.

I asked the same ? I also sent him an email and didn't reply. I guess they are still testing away.

[socs28]

Is this Dave Moore the one at www.davemooreracing.com? I need to talk to him about one of these. Is there a better way to get ahold of him?

[250rRoostmaster]

I've sent him 2 emails over the past week about this with no reply. We have had a few email conversations about these frames though so I'm guessing he's just busy. He also has a phone number on his website.

503-576-1490 Dave Moore Racing

[Billy Golightly]

He is still working on it. There are a few of us already on the unofficial waiting list (He wont take deposits and has said its done when its done on this first one) so just keep checking in on it is my suggestion

[socs28]

Thank you, I had called and left a message, but just wanted to make sure it was the right one. Any of those conversations concerning putting a 450 motor in one? Looks like he's in Oregon. I live down in Coos Bay and if I can be of any assistance I'd be glad to.

[ride red #1]

A frame for a cr500 and another for a 450fs would be a dream come true.

[250rRoostmaster]

Thank you, I had called and left a message, but just wanted to make sure it was the right one. Any of those conversations concerning putting a 450 motor in one? Looks like he's in Oregon. I live down in Coos Bay and if I can be of any assistance I'd be glad to.

Unfortunately not, although he said he can make it so a modern 450 swinger will bolt right in with the proper linkage mounts (Which is the route I'm thinking of going) so I'm sure a 450 motor is not out of the question by any means.

[socs28]

that's what I'm thinking, by the looks of it, it has a good bit more room than stock, that's one of the reasons I want to talk. My next thing is going to be a 450 in a 250r chassis, I'd like to go this route, and I'd really rather not buy a brand new frame and then start cutting on it... ;) I plan on going with the crf450x motor so I get the smaller head/cam cover, smaller carb, electric start, and same 1st gear as trx, then we'll look at what do do about the smaller valves.

[t65h]

Has anyone been able to get one yet? What is the best motocross combination in your opinion? (I am guessing 450r swing arm). Thank you.

[250rRoostmaster]

I wish! I still can't get ahold of him..

[oscarmayer]

we were thinking of asking about the 350x and see if he can do one for it, but with this kind of customer service, I think we will just continue as we are.

[onformula1]

I don't know this guy nor have I tried to contact him, but my theory is he built it and its very nice, quoted a price then added up the steel, consumables and time and said this is not possible.

I was thinking around $1200-$1500 until I read Mr. Clean's post of $700 bucks!, I have seen stock frames go for $500 bucks.

[ironchop]

I would be patient. I'll bet he got BLASTED with emails and PMs saying anything from "I'll take it" to "what kind of motor can I put in there" to "would you make one for an ATC185"....if he spent all week answering emails, he ain't got time to weld a frame.

I also agree with Milner. I personally think he is underpriced on those frames however the low price is exactly why I want one. Its worth 1500$ as long as those welds have correct penetration, however I'm not looking to build on a $1500 frame...$700 though is doable for me.

[bad to the bone]

Update? Has anyone test the new frame?

[JesseA420]

bump. anyone talked to dave about these lately?

[Mr. Clean]

bump. anyone talked to dave about these lately?

He said on a social media site that he is not taking on any work after April 1st so he can go to races and rides. He was going to go to the Invasion but had to punt due to work load.

His build looks pretty good to me :D

[Jmoozy27]

He said on a social media site that he is not taking on any work after April 1st so he can go to races and rides. He was going to go to the Invasion but had to punt due to work load.

His build looks pretty good to me :D

Swinger looks really nice, wonder if he fabbed it as well???

[El Camexican]

Is he heat-treating the chromoly?

Why would he? It's a frame, not an axle, or a bushing. If anything you would stress relive it after welding. Feel to explain the process to us, or better yet post up a link where someone has heat treated a frame of any kind. I'd love to learn about this.

[loganm]

Why would he? It's a frame, not an axle, or a bushing. If anything you would stress relive it after welding. Feel to explain the process to us, or better yet post up a link where someone has heat treated a frame of any kind. I'd love to learn about this.

Q. Do I need to heat treat (stress relieve) 4130 after welding?
A. Thin wall tubing normally does not require stress relief. For parts thicker than .120", stress-relieving is recommended and 1,100ºF is the optimum temperature for tubing applications. An Oxy/Acetylene torch with neutral flame can be used. It should be oscillated to avoid hot spots.

From lincolns website. Ig it's not required on thinner stuff. It is done on the welds on thicker stuff to prevent it from cracking. On ultra4 cars and the like the majority is made out of mild steel DOM tubing since chromoly doesn't offer much of an advantage for the extra work and money it requires.

[The_Steve_Man]

I talked to guy that is friends with him. He said if you catch him when he doesn't have a lot going on, he would probably build you one.

[loganm]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/misc/64674106_zpsfhkyedxq.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/louis_mielke/media/misc/64674106_zpsfhkyedxq.jpg.html)

[Mr. Clean]

Swinger looks really nice, wonder if he fabbed it as well???

Not a gambling man, but I would lay the lumber in Vegas although the odds would not pay out well.

Search the interweb for Dave Moore Racing, he builds some very nice custom chassis's and components.

[Louis Mielke]

Anyone else want some time off? Don't troll, don't crap on peoples threads, don't be purposely ignorant to other members and especially not the mods. AND definitely don't crap on anything Dave Moore builds.

Carry on everyone else. :-)

[Louis Mielke]

Commentary on someone's ban is unneeded.

[200x newby]

just going to throw a quick bump in here...

[ironchop]

I asked Dave about this last summer when I was on FB, he said he wasn't going to build anymore of these in the foreseeable future. He added that they were originally built for drag racing.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[atc300r]

Doesn't HRE sell liquid R frames they build.

[deathman53]

as far as I know, he only built 2 frames for me. Call him and see if he could build you one, the one he built for me has survived everything I threw at it. The frames he built were based on a 86 frame, 85 frames are different. The 85 frames seams to turn faster.