250ES Refresh hit a wall... [Archive]

Airmapper

11-01-2014, 06:32 PM

I've been doing a bunch of things at once, and apparently I did one of them wrong.

On my 250ES I can't get it to hit a lick. No inclination or offering to fire.

The biggest contributing issues I think apply is I have rebuilt the carburetor, and replaced the timing chain.

While I feel stupid at the moment, I'm not a noob to small engines, I just feel I either misunderstood the service manual somewhere, or made some dumb mistake.

Best I can tell the root problem is there does not seem to be any fuel entering the combustion chamber. I sprayed a little Kroil in the chamber to keep it lubed while I turned it over setting timing, the plug still smells like that stuff, not fuel. I wonder if that might not be interfering, but I didn't put that much in there, and surely if fuel were entering the chamber it would ignite regardless, Kroil is mildly flammable itself, and should allow the gas to ignite.

I think I have spark, the plug fires outside, who knows what it's doing inside. (It is new.)

I have a compression stroke, and I am getting puffs out the exhaust. Apparently the timing is close enough that it is pumping air, although if it's pulling from the intake or not I guess might be the big question.

On the timing chain, I could not get the timing marks to align perfectly with the head. By that I mean a few degrees, not way off. I was within one chain link, slipping the chain just made it slightly off in the other direction.

I set the valve lifter clearance. But after cranking on it some it loosened up dramatically. I set the flywheel back to the timing mark and re-set clearance to .003", didn't change anything.

So basically I am not entirely sure where to look first, by all accounts everything "should" be good. I've never messed with a timing chain before, and wonder if I did not goof something up there. At the same time, timing a little off shouldn't prevent it from at least trying to hit, backfiring, or some sign of life. As for the carb, it's not my first carb rebuild. I've rebuilt everything from 4 barrel automotive carbs to lawn mowers, and I rebuilt a 250SX carb not a month ago so I was familiar with it already. I have a hard time believing I goofed it up so bad it won't run, but who knows.

Another thing worth mentioning is I have some kind of issue with my fuel tank petcock. But it's issue is sending fuel even when it's off, so I don't think there is any lack of fuel to the carb. I drain the bowl and it has gas in it, so it appears to be getting fuel (i.e. the needle valve isn't stuck.)

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I don't feel like tearing it down to the timing chain again if I'm really not sure that is it.

DohcBikes

11-01-2014, 06:55 PM

You said that after cranking the valve lash loosened dramatically. This is not common.

Are you sure that you are setting the valve lash at top dead center on the compression stroke...

Airmapper

11-01-2014, 07:29 PM

You said that after cranking the valve lash loosened dramatically. This is not common.

Are you sure that you are setting the valve lash at top dead center on the compression stroke...

I'm fairly confident it was. Setting up the timing chain the instructions were to place the camshaft in lobes down, and once I got the head cover back on, I set the valve lash while it was in that same position, and I checked the timing mark several times during that process to make sure the flywheel had not moved. Later, after several attempts to start, I opened the lifter covers to observe the cycles, I seen that clearance was greater. To reset it, I used the timing mark, and seen it was after the exhaust/intake cycles.

I believe I used the correct mark on the flywheel as well. There is another set of marks I found, but only one with a "T" stamped by it.

prometheus

11-03-2014, 01:03 AM

If you think its possibly a fuel issue try starting fluid. Give it a little squirt and if you get it to fire a few times then you know you have a carb issue. If it still wont fire I would check compression to see if valves are tight. If good compression and still no fire your timing is off. Way off. Might be firing on exhaust stroke.

Airmapper

11-03-2014, 09:27 PM

Thanks, I had to pick up a can of the stuff. Gave that a try and got mixed results. It will putter a bit but something just doesn't seem right about it. No regular rhythm to it. I get a few muffled hits, nothing, then a few more.

I don't feel like it is sucking from the intake at all, I cracked open the intake hose and I can't feel any suction when I hit the starter.

I don't have a real compression tester, but sticking my finger over the spark plug hole, I can turn it to the compression stroke and it doesn't have enough pressure to push air around my finger. I don't know if that is normal or not, but it seems like there should be more pressure there.

I've about convinced myself to go ahead and take the valve cover back off and look over the timing marks again.

DohcBikes

11-04-2014, 08:27 AM

I'm fairly confident it was. Setting up the timing chain the instructions were to place the camshaft in lobes down, and once I got the head cover back on, I set the valve lash while it was in that same position, and I checked the timing mark several times during that process to make sure the flywheel had not moved. Later, after several attempts to start, I opened the lifter covers to observe the cycles, I seen that clearance was greater. To reset it, I used the timing mark, and seen it was after the exhaust/intake cycles.

I believe I used the correct mark on the flywheel as well. There is another set of marks I found, but only one with a "T" stamped by it.
This sounds very iffy. I can tell you this: cam timing is not something you can or should be "fairly certain" of, it is a mechanical procedure that has no margin for uncertainty.

I can also tell you this: if the lash increased significantly after turning the engine over, you didn't do it right.

Dustin87R

11-04-2014, 08:47 PM

Does the ES have a compression release that works off of the cam? When I adjusted the valves on my 400 I turned the engine clockwise after I passed TDC and it caused the valve clearance to change on the exhaust valve once the engine reached 1200 rpm.

6speedthumper

11-04-2014, 09:17 PM

You did put the timing chain tensioner back in, and correctly, right? Are you sure you ordered/received the correct timing chain? It could be a link, or two, too long. You did tighten down all of the rocker box/valve cover bolts, right?

You set the valve lash then it loosened up after only cranking the engine. Was the adjuster and it's lock nut loose? Or, was it the clearance that was excessive? It could be as simple as the timing jumped. Or, it could be worse and you bent a valve. Both will cause little to no compression, and no intake vacuum, like you are experiencing. Also, if you bent a valve the valve lash clearance will have likely increased because the valve is either not quite closed, or stuck totally open.

You're going to have to dig deeper and investigate everything you did.

Airmapper

11-04-2014, 11:06 PM

The last few posts rolled in while I was actually working on it, I just got in from the garage.

Yes, tensioner has been in and properly wound back so it can recoil and self adjust.

Timing chain is a D.I.D SCA-0412A SV, purchased off ebay, it has a sticker on the box listing for a ATC250ES and TRX250, for what little to nothing that is worth. I cannot find an application cross reference that lists a D.I.D part # for the ATC250ES.

The chain is tight and well within tensioner range of movement. No play in it at all. For all I can tell by appearance it is correct. The timing marks return to their positions every revolution.

Valve cover bolts were all tightened before setting the valve lash. Adjuster and lock nut were not loose.

I took it apart again this evening and went over it all again. I reset the chain. I found the timing mark, made darn sure it had a "T" (Apparently there is an "F" mark as well.) I only moved it a link or two but when I was done, I was confident I had everything as it should be, checked everything twice, and all that. I thought possibly I had used the wrong mark last time, who knows, but this time it all lined up very nicely and the timing marks were all perfect to where they should be, not even slightly off.

Set the valve lash and after one or two revolutions reset to the "T" mark, lash had very slightly tightened. I re-set it again.

After all that, it still won't hit a lick..... :mad:

83ATC185

11-07-2014, 02:09 PM

Airmapper

11-07-2014, 02:28 PM

You say you had the top end off, possibly broke a ring somehow? If everything else checks out its got to be a bent valve or broken ring, or maybe the ring gaps all got lined up when you put it back together. I'm not sure that would actually keep it from starting though...

Deepest I went is the valve cover, I haven't removed anything under that. Not to say that isn't the issue, but it's not one I've had until now, considering it ran when I parked it.

I tried to work on it some more a little while ago. The valve adjusters are loose again. The adjusters themselves are tight. I can't explain this, I know it's not right, but I can't figure out what in the heck could cause this to correct it. I set them on the "T" mark with the cam lobes down, compression stroke, but they just won't seem to hold an adjustment.

I'm with you though, why won't it start? Even if it's set up wrong, it should putter, sputter, backfire, or something, but it won't even offer to fire.

Edit to add:

I just removed the intake. It's blowing air out when I crank it. Whatever is causing that has to be my problem. I can see the lifter moving the intake valve spring. I first noticed it as I laid a screwdriver on top the airbox, and seen it hopping when I cranked the engine.

83ATC185

11-07-2014, 05:26 PM

hhhmm did you take the cam sprocket off? Could it have gotten replaced 180 degrees out? You do say lobes down though, which is correct at TDC. Even with the valves off a little bit, it should still run, even if it does sound terrible.I honestly have no idea, I'm leaning toward timing though since that's the only thing that's changed. You might try taking the adjuster off and making sure its not sticking/hanging up somewhere.

atc007

11-07-2014, 10:26 PM

Intake valve is your problem,Why?? We may never know lol. But you need to get your intake valve seated . Tear the head off :(

6speedthumper

11-07-2014, 11:16 PM

You keep saying "lobes down", are you using the timing marks on the cam gear?????? There are two lines, one on each side of the bolt, and they get lined up with the plain of the cylinder head (parallel to the mating surface of where the valve cover mates with the head). Those marks have to be as such when the crank marks are lined up.

Airmapper

11-08-2014, 12:23 AM

Intake valve is your problem,Why?? We may never know lol. But you need to get your intake valve seated . Tear the head off :(

I may have to, wasn't really wanting to go there, but I do want this thing to run after I spent this much money on it thus far. I think I may do a bit more testing to see what compression is doing, if I can find a tester.

You keep saying "lobes down", are you using the timing marks on the cam gear?????? There are two lines, one on each side of the bolt, and they get lined up with the plain of the cylinder head (parallel to the mating surface of where the valve cover mates with the head). Those marks have to be as such when the crank marks are lined up.

Yes I'm using timing marks. I say lobes down to try to make sure you guys know I didn't put it on 180 degrees out.

danbur55

11-08-2014, 10:03 AM

compression test will help do it dry then add a few drops of oil and see if it increases should be able to rent or borrow tester from a parts store if close by wouldnt hurt to post some pics of things as these guys on here can spot a flea from a hundred yards
I may have to, wasn't really wanting to go there, but I do want this thing to run after I spent this much money on it thus far. I think I may do a bit more testing to see what compression is doing, if I can find a tester.

Yes I'm using timing marks. I say lobes down to try to make sure you guys know I didn't put it on 180 degrees out.

DohcBikes

11-08-2014, 10:25 AM

These guys have said it all. Something is wrong. Take it apart. Post pics.

6speedthumper

11-08-2014, 11:04 AM

These guys have said it all. Something is wrong. Take it apart. Post pics.u\

Yup, agreed. Time for surgery.

You could at least do a leak down test before taking it apart. Do that, and you will know what area to look at when you take it apart. Could only be a valve and you may not have to go any further then taking the head off. It's not a must do thing, though.

Airmapper

11-10-2014, 10:08 PM

Thanks guys, last weekend I used my thumb as a compression gauge, it is so leaky I couldn't feel any pressure at all, I figured a dial gauge was pointless, so I started in.

Those head bolts were TIGHT! Took my time on those, let them soak, jarred them with the impact, soaked some more, and let them sit. Warmed them up with a pen torch, and got them loose real gentle like with a breaker bar, phew, I was afraid I was going to strip something.

Right now the only thing holding me back is getting the exhaust pipe off, it's bonded pretty good. Letting it soak in penetrating oil till I can work on it again. Suspense is killing me wondering what those valves look like.......

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_FlUaGb-240/VGFuSHcmuzI/AAAAAAAACoU/h418ZNg24UM/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5074.JPG

Jmoozy27

11-10-2014, 10:19 PM

Oh yeah, been there a couple of time. It's like defusing a bomb. Don't want to make the wrong move.

Airmapper

11-11-2014, 09:14 PM

Well gentleman, mystery solved. (See photos) Except the "how" part, I have no clue what happened to it. It ran when I parked it.

Now I need to figure out how to fix it. It almost has to be bent, I can't see it sticking like that, and I can't do much with it under tension.

Could I fix this right with the typical tools you find around the shop, not specialty tools? I normally hate to have anyone fix anything for me, but would it be worth my while to hand this to a shop?

Thanks for all the help guys, this is as far into an ATC as I've been, despite growing up on the things.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JPkwY9pvsYY/VGKyZYXvo-I/AAAAAAAACow/XY6-zlalcsI/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5082.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LuhkNF0LGfc/VGKycLlMbNI/AAAAAAAACo4/idb7rX1Hcwo/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5083.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_17q2MQsU3c/VGKyhLl1QbI/AAAAAAAACpA/JYeDDkBFjfw/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5087.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XRpcEGs7eVY/VGKyVjyfWSI/AAAAAAAACoo/sq4SAPv4ES4/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5084.JPG

atc007

11-12-2014, 12:26 AM

Yes, you can fix that easily. It should slide right out. When they are really bent. Sometimes you have to cut the stem with a dremel and smooth it as to not gouge up the guide on the way out. That's not bad. It hit the piston on the way around out of time :(. Pull your cylinder and measure it. It needs rings for sure,possibly bored. New valve and lapping,,head will be good as new. Now you see why she couldn't run and compression was coming out the intake lol. Good job.

DohcBikes

11-12-2014, 03:10 AM

Yes, you can fix that easily. It should slide right outmeh I don't know about that.... it can be stuck rather tight just as easily. Make sure the guide isn't egged or fractured...

rdonald1979

11-12-2014, 10:22 AM

X2 on what Dohc said.

Airmapper

11-18-2014, 10:07 PM

meh I don't know about that.... it can be stuck rather tight just as easily. Make sure the guide isn't egged or fractured...

It's been a little bit since I was able to work on this, but this evening I managed to just remove the valve. (I don't have a way to compress it, used the hammer method I found in another thread o get it out and inspect.)

It slid out easily. The hole is not egged visibly. But as my luck would have it, there is a tiny fracture on the part that sticks out. Very hard to see, but sure enough it is there.

What is the worst that could happen if I just put the new valve in and go on, I may have to replace the head later if it wears the valve loose? (which is also the fix for a fracture of this nature anyway right?) The fracture is only along the lower edge, maybe 1/4" long, and there is a lot more surface area to guide the shaft. Except for when a big goof (me), gets the timing out and smacks the valve on the piston, there is no lateral pressure on that shaft correct?

effort=results

11-19-2014, 11:30 PM

Pics of fracture please. Sounds like valve guide maybe damaged and at that point do not just throw another valve in . You will be right back where your at now.

Airmapper

11-19-2014, 11:59 PM

This is as good a view as I can get, fat camera lens and flashlight won't go in there at the same time.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MRYsOSeP1yc/VG1mmJjI_dI/AAAAAAAACp8/ZuSCbeuNFDM/w1138-h853-no/IMG_5096%2B%282%29.jpg

83ATC185

11-21-2014, 10:12 AM

new guides are available from Honda, what's 14 dollars when you've done all this work?

atc007

11-21-2014, 03:12 PM

83ATC185

11-21-2014, 05:11 PM

Dremel it down to where there is no crack,smooth,deburr,ride.

Never heard of anyone doing this, learn something everyday :beer

Airmapper

11-21-2014, 07:09 PM

I've personally ground away 20 times that much guide porting before. I would do just that. Dremel it down to where there is no crack,smooth,deburr,ride. Just "buying " a new guide doesn't fix this problem. You need it pressed out and back in. Aligned and regrind the seats. Turns into $200 in a hurry. If you get rid of the crack. She will go for another 30. Most will disagree,I will guarantee lol.

Well this is better than I though, I thought those guides were in there a bit more permanently. But I should have looked it it harder.

Thanks atc007, this idea is more in line with my thinking. It's worth the risk. I don't mind doing something the procedurally "correct" way, but in a case like this if I had to spend another $200+ and more time into it, I'd have to set it aside and not enjoy all the work and money I've put in thus far.

If I had more time and unlimited funds to throw at it, I'd tear it all the way down and do a full rebuild and take no shortcuts, but this started as a minor refresh to get it running again, now it's a project that has my very small (1 car) garage space tied up.

83ATC185

11-21-2014, 07:55 PM

If you ground that guide down, would you have to do the exhaust to match or is there no worries there? If no harm, is there any noticeable benefit to doing them both? Just curious

atc007

11-21-2014, 09:20 PM

Only a flow bench will tell you rather it gains you actual power. Usually not I'm told, But I sure ground a lot of them down flush back in the day. 200S.X,350X,Quad Sports,Warriors. I never owned a flow bench. But was of the opinion getting all that out of the way was a good idea as long as I was in here. Never had a problem,nor did my customers. Every intake,head,valve,piston exhaust,cam,will have different results. But in this case. No worries that I can see grinding the crack away and cleaning up the guide.Report back in after a few hundred miles please. And hone it and ring it please,if nothing else!

Airmapper

11-21-2014, 11:42 PM

And hone it and ring it please,if nothing else!

Would you care to elaborate why I might do that? I'm assuming you are referring to the valve damaging the cylinder when it hit, other than that I have no reason to mess with the cylinder or rings.

I appreciate your opinion greatly. If there is a need I'll consider it, but at the moment I'm not open to "while I'm at it" jobs. I've been down that road on other machines, and it is not an option for this project. I need this buttoned up and out of my garage. I might do it later, but this is a very bad time for me to have a never ending project.

Also I asked a retired friend I worked with for many years, who is an expert tool maker and mechanic, a very detail oriented perfectionist, and very familiar with small engines, about the necessity of honing the cylinder and replacing rings. He told me it would be a waste of my time and money. Told me to never touch the cylinder unless it was burning oil, only fix what was broken, or I'd go down this rabbit hole of fixing more and more expensive stuff that most likely would have been fine if I hadn't messed with it.

atc007

11-26-2014, 05:34 PM

Sorry,hadn't seen this till now. A little busy building a home for my Son and D in law. I will assume you are out riding now lol. But anyhow,,,Your valve and piston said hello to each other and they are never supposed to meet. A light hit like that most likely didn't crack the piston. But it surely warranted inspecting. The amount of carbon on top of your piston tells me fresh rings would not hurt her,,,in the least.. You would have increased compression and saved tearing it down later. But I agree. It will run this way . It's just a golden rule,while your that far, Fresh cross hatch and rings.. = Like new performance when she's back together. Hope she's running good now :)

Airmapper

12-06-2014, 09:07 PM

Thanks, I been busy as well. I kinda have a plan now but I'll keep posting here because I hate to find old threads no one ever came back to finish the story for.

Actually it's still in pieces and I'm getting very annoyed. Not at the 3 wheeler but just the situation. I've been busy with work and school and other things and waiting for parts to come in, I just wanted to get it running so I could putt around the farm and do yard chores with the wagon, now it's a long drawn out thing and costing me ever increasing sums of money. I guess that is the way it goes, I tend to get impatient at times.

I didn't grid it out. I thought about it and looked it over with my tools. That may work but I'm not getting in there with a hand held dremmel, I'll tear things up worse and I know it going at it with improper tools and no experience.

I ordered a new valve guide and O ring. Either the guide requires lapping or it's the wrong one. It's .005" smaller in diameter than my new (NOS) valve. I'm not panicking because it makes sense to me that it would be undersized and require lapping to fit the valve rod precisely, like making a precision dowel hole.

I asked a local bike shop to quote installing the guide and lapping the valve, with me handing them everything ready to go. They told me $150, at 2.5 hours labor, which I think is ridiculous, but maybe I don't know what all is required. However I think they might adjust that once I actually show it to them, they gave me a rough book estimate since I was on the phone. I'll probably take my stuff there next week and let them give me a more detailed quote.

Jmoozy27

12-06-2014, 11:33 PM

That is way too much!!! My mechanic bored my cylinder, reworked the head, and removed a broken stud for $100. That shop is nuts!!!

NateN34

12-09-2014, 07:10 PM

Yeah that's no good.

For my 200, it cost about $85 for: grind valve seats, ream valve guides and install oversized ones. Oh and blasted the whole head clean.

Airmapper

12-10-2014, 12:04 AM

Thanks, I need to shop around more, after talking to the mechanic in person, I just didn't like him. Friendly, but shady.

He stuck on $150 firm, said if (as in it was unlikely) it took less than 2.5 hours I'd only pay for what time they worked, yeah, sure. Something tells me if I'm not standing there with a timer it will take every bit of 2.5 hours. I suppose preheating the oven to warm the head is billed at $60 an hour as well...a good mechanic could quote the job, not get on the computer, pull off a generic time estimate and tell me it would take that long.

Airmapper

12-10-2014, 12:23 PM

I have to share this, it's just too rich. Not the first time I'm sure but it's just so stupid.

I'm in Bowling Green, KY. It's like the 3rd largest city in the state. So I'm calling around town to find a shop to give me a quote. I call the largest one in town, been around for years and years. I tell about my job, I get emphatically cut off, "We can't work on a Big Rad, those are outlawed, can't get parts for them." At this point I know he's not doing anything for me, so I mess with him. I asked how, and why, he doesn't know just that they are "outlawed and illegal."

I told him he was full of it, and I had already bought new OEM Honda parts for it. He didn't seem affected. I said have a nice day.

I didn't expect much from that shop anyway, they couldn't even give me a decent tire quote a while back. Funny thing is years ago I quoted 3 wheeler parts from them and they would price them.

I got a few leads on some one man shops out in the sticks, closer to home anyway, one said $100, trying to find the other guys number.

83ATC185

12-10-2014, 01:58 PM

I just wanted to get it running so I could putt around the farm and do yard chores with the wagon, now it's a long drawn out thing and costing me ever increasing sums of money. I guess that is the way it goes, I tend to get impatient at times.

This. I started with what i dubbed "Project Free Wheeler", a 185s that i planned on building with parts i had laying around, trying to keep costs low, impossibly low. 600 dollars and 3 months later, me and my girlfriend went on our first ride last weekend.

Stick with it, one piece at a time. It'll come together and the result will be something reliable that you can enjoy for years.

Jmoozy27

12-10-2014, 08:25 PM

Yeah, I know it's time consuming but I try to do whatever mechanic work I can because it is such a hassle dealing with hard headed people. Find someone and stick with them and down the line it will be beneficial in the future.

86125m

12-10-2014, 08:45 PM

i agree find someone that is fair and stick with them and do as mich of the work yourself. Like the old saying goes if you want it done right do it yourself.

cap

12-11-2014, 12:03 AM

There is a head on EBay for 60$, just saying as it seems you are getting discouraged. Bolt on and ride. Rebuild your head as time and $$ permit.

Airmapper

12-12-2014, 01:36 PM

I went to a local guy in his 70's running a small ATV shop nearby, when I found his name I asked my folks if they knew him and it turns out he's the same guy they took their ATC's to back in the day, and the local NAPA said good things about him. I ended up spending about 40 minutes just shooting the bull with him about fixing ATV's and stuff, seems like a nice guy.

He doesn't do the machine work, but he uses a local automotive machine shop I'm familiar with. All they need to do is the reaming to the guide. I don't have a total price, I think he is going to let me know what the machine shop wants to charge, but his initial quote was much lower than the other local big shops, I don't think he will be more than they were, and I'd rather support small business anyway.

There is a head on EBay for 60$, just saying as it seems you are getting discouraged. Bolt on and ride. Rebuild your head as time and $$ permit.

I considered that, if they can't fix my head I may go that way. I was a bit concerned over the shims under the head, I don't know if that is a precision fit to "my" head or not.

ironchop

12-12-2014, 01:45 PM

He doesn't do the machine work, but he uses a local automotive machine shop I'm familiar with. All they need to do is the reaming to the guide. I don't have a total price, I think he is going to let me know what the machine shop wants to charge, but his initial quote was much lower than the other local big shops, I don't think he will be more than they were, and I'd rather support small business anyway.

You will find that a lot of the "big Shops" do none of their own machining anymore but gladly mark up what the machine shop charged them to do the work and charge you for a profit for merely dropping off and picking up your part from the machine shop. All our local dealers are doing similar things especially on bore/hone jobs.

cap

12-12-2014, 02:55 PM

Shims? You mean the head gasket? that should be replaced when you pull the head.

ironchop

12-12-2014, 03:02 PM

Airmapper

12-20-2014, 06:51 PM

I got my head back this morning. Of course I could not disassemble it to check everything (that's why I had to take it to someone to begin with...need a valve compressor, which indecently costs more than what he charged.) but it looks good. He only charged me $25, I gave him a little bit more.

I completed re-assembly. I turned it over real slow this time by hand using the kick start lever, no binding. I used the "T" mark for sure this time, the cam marks all lined up. I think I'm good (crossing fingers.)

No attempt to start yet. I need to buy some new exhaust gaskets before I button all that up. I may have some clutch work to do yet as well, not sure. I got a new seal for the reverse lever shaft as well, not enthused about pulling that case cover again, but I'll get the rest of it assembled before I think about that, it's not too hard to get at.

Guess I'm not really out of the woods until I'm riding.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here, I appreciate it. Wish me luck.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cOiJfUsatNA/VJX6ARx7JII/AAAAAAAACrY/_ZIzZdrogfU/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5157.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WcEiirXlqs0/VJX6OQhrARI/AAAAAAAACro/sbHmZeK83bA/w1137-h853-no/IMG_5158.JPG