'85 250R countershaft rotation ease

[pismorat]

I'm afraid to ask this, but I don't want to go further with my rebuild with it potentially being wrong. I installed new crankshaft bearings and seals, put the tranny back together, and joined the cases. I'm just starting to rebuild the right hand side and noticed that the countershaft doesn't spin without using pliers on it. The shift drum moves to 1, N, 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6, but it feels tighter than I think it should. Anyone know if I should be able to spin it easily by hand? I guess this is what I get for rebuilding it ten months after I tore it down!

[Flyingw]

ya it should rotate freely.

[pismorat]

Dang it! So what could I have assembled wrong? Something obviously is making it bind. How many times can a center gasket be used if it's never been run (just had the cases bolted together)? I can see this being a :wondering problem.

[Flyingw]

As long as the gasket isn't torn, reuse....

[pismorat]

Split the cases today. The second I loosened all the bolts the cases separated a few thou and the countershaft freed up. I tightened the one bolt closest to it and it got tight again. Does anyone have a really good exploded diagram of the countershaft gears and shims? I have the manual, but I apparently that didn't help me build it right...

[Flyingw]

Shims????? What shims? http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461367&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131330

[Dirtcrasher]

You probably have something backwards or the shift drum pins not aligned/mixed up....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm thinking a misplaced trans shaft shim.

It should rotate freely, but with a moderate amount of smooth drag..bearing drag. It shouldn't spin like a dry roller skate wheel, and it shouldn't require a pair of pliers either.

[pismorat]

I haven't pulled the tranny out of the left case yet, but there are three small shims on the end of the shaft that would space it against the bearing. Two are the same as eachother, the other has two small grooves in it (this is the one I'm thinking is misplaced). The schematics don't show these specifically, only as washers...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I really wish I could remember exactly how they go so I can help you. But to tell you the truth, I just don't remember exactly because it's been almost 2 years since I have had one of my bottom ends apart.

[wonderboy]

I think you need to take a closer look at chapter 8 in the manual. It shows the individual components both at the front of the chapter, and again on page 8-9. I don't see three washers / shims together anywhere.

203544
203545

[pismorat]

Yeah, I think what happened...I can see the notched washer under the outmost gear. I repositioned it, but then having the two washers after that outmost gear is wrong. I think one of those goes on the other side of the shaft next to the left case bearing. I'll pull the tranny tomorrow and see what happens!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yeah, I think what happened...I can see the notched washer under the outmost gear. I repositioned it, but then having the two washers after that outmost gear is wrong. I think one of those goes on the other side of the shaft next to the left case bearing. I'll pull the tranny tomorrow and see what happens!

That sounds likely to be right!

[pismorat]

In thinking it over last night, that second washer has to go somewhere else. It won't fit on the counter shaft side, so I'll have to keep looking.

[Dirtcrasher]

You know better now don't ya!! :lol:

Use your cell phone and video and record just the few times it gets hairy......

I still do it.

Edit - I haven't done an 85/86R for awhile. I guess they have a gasket and not just 3Bond??

[RIDE-RED 250r]

You know better now don't ya!! :lol:

Use your cell phone and video and record just the few times it gets hairy......

I still do it.

Edit - I haven't done an 85/86R for awhile. I guess they have a gasket and not just 3Bond??

Yes. And they don't like to go with no gasket either. I assembled an engine temporarily once, no gaskets of any kind...just because it was going to be awhile before I installed that engine and I wanted all the parts to be where they were supposed to be. The cases didn't want to draw together without making the crank and trans difficult to turn. It seems to me they account for gasket thickness with crank and trans bearing spacing. Kind of makes you think twice about cheap knock-off gaskets.

[Dirtcrasher]

I agree that the "no gasket" thing never made me a fan. But, if I stone any high spots and epoxy and smooth any lows, 3bond each side, let it tack up and it hasn't failed me.

I know your searching for the other demon but don't forget the left crank seal MUST be pushed in about 5MM to pass the taper. Flush and you'll have an air leak so just check it.

I find the 250R to be one of the easiest bottom ends to build providing it's assembled properly. A plastic hammer taps it all together easy.

This is why I zip tie the tranny shafts when I tear them down. Time passes and things are forgotten...... I hope you get it!!

[pismorat]

Well, the countershaft spinning problem is fixed! Now the issue is I'm not getting complete rotation of the shafts while shifting it through the gears. There are two gears (1st & 5th I think) that I only get 1/2 and 3/4 shaft rotation before they hit a hard stop. I'm also not getting a good neutral. I'm assuming there must be a gear alignment problem inside now...so it's time to come back apart and look for something else. I always do my own work, but I'm getting REALLY close to having someone else assemble the bottom end...

[pismorat]

I think I got it figured out. My dad and I were messing around with it today and one of the snap rings came out of its groove, allowing a gear to move ever-so-slightly out of position. THis was the reason it wouldn't rotate freely in each gear. Phew! Tomorrow I'm working towards complete reassembly!