Six million dollar 350x No power!! Help!!

[Big Daddys 350x]

Hey guys got my 350x running again. It has a brand new top end, 12:1 weisco piston megacycle cam ported and polished head stainless valves 400ex carb with sigma 6 jet kit. Pretty sure cam part # is 162 full dg exhaust all new reweld rockers the whole 9. I run 110 in it and Brad penn oil only. Motor is almost identical to the 350x featured all over youtube. Theirs screams, mine whispers. It starts and runs but misses a little above idle turn the throttle a little more and it cleans up. Only black smoke when it's at wot and then just a little then clears out. I am so bummed. Me and my family are going to little saharah sand dunes in two weeks. I've been working on this trike since last year when we all went and I sat out cause it wasn't ready. I'm at a loss I just don't know what else to do.

The old smoking stock motor would spank the new motor. It was bone stock with dg exhaust and stock 400ex carb. Was super easy to kick start and had tons of power but smoked like a freight train. The old wore out motor would wax a 400ex with pipe and jet kit. Would even hang with my buddy's raptor.

The new motor sucks. No low end power at all, when your at wot, feels really weak. Wot from 2nd to 3rd won't bring the front tire off the ground if you tried.

It seems like the engine is dragging down when you take off up to 1/4 throttle then it stops sputtering and power starts to come on. My wife asked me why are you taking off in second gear. Feels like driving a car with the timing way retarded. This engine is pathetic really disappointed.

Guy who assembled the motor said it just needs to be jetted said he thinks it's running to rich. When I put a foam filter on the carb makes it even worse. And it ran like this with the stock 400ex stock jetting. My other motor loved the 400ex carb.

I have got an incredible amount of money in the engine. Any ideas why power is so weak. I appreciate the help and sorry to sound like a wine bag. Just don't know what I did wrong in the build. Just a side note the bike is totally restored looks like it rolled off the show room floor. I spared no expense. I would be eternally great full if someone could shed some light on my situation.

Again thanks!

[atc007]

I was thinking maybe something mechanically binding inside,,till you said black smoke. That is a very rich carb. Same set up you had before the rebuild? We've all been there bud. Tons of time ,cash and anticipation for your dream build and it flops. You'll get it figured out.

[El Camexican]

Are you certain of your cam timing and ignition timing? That needs to be confirmed first. Then get someone who knows how to jet to bring over a box of brass and spend some time with you. Have them check the float height and hose routing and then start the jetting process. That engine is too expensive for you to be learning on.

[yaegerb]

You can't just slap a hi-po motor together and expect it to run right off the bat. My best suggestion for you is to look locally for a dyno shop that allows for ATV tuning. It will cost you an extra 300 bucks but worth 6 million headaches ;). I can tell you right off the bat that it's rich.

[6speedthumper]

I agree with El on the ignition and cam timing. Also, make sure your valves are adjusted to the proper clearances, as per the cam manufacture's specs. You are running rich, but, you have to check the bases first, because it could be one of the above I & El listed.

Look to see if any of the vent hoses for the carb as pinched between the carb and fuel tank. I had that problem right after I put the 400ex carb on mine. Just didn't catch it at first.

Just for curiosity's sake, who's X on youtube are you talking about?

[Big Daddys 350x]

I agree with El on the ignition and cam timing. Also, make sure your valves are adjusted to the proper clearances, as per the cam manufacture's specs. You are running rich, but, you have to check the bases first, because it could be one of the above I & El listed.

Look to see if any of the vent hoses for the carb as pinched between the carb and fuel tank. I had that problem right after I put the 400ex carb on mine. Just didn't catch it at first.

Just for curiosity's sake, who's X on youtube are you talking about?

Man you guys are awesome! Just getting the comments and feedback has made me feel better. As for the 350x it's the one where they did a 250r and a 350x retro rebuild. Both seriously nice bikes.

This was/is kinda why I was a little bummed, I have worked on and built this bike for about 4 years. I have been dreaming of a 350x since they were new and I was about 12 years old.

Both of my cousins and my uncle had three of them when I was 14. The butts wouldn't even let me ride one around the yard (they would let me clean them and change the oil stuff like that) my cousin would promise to let me ride his, when it came time to ride there was always an excuse. My aunt and uncle told me I didn't know what I was doing and I couldn't handle that kind of power. So I would sit there and watch them ride and have a blast. The last time I went camping with them they promised to finally let me ride one.... I helped set up camp helped them with everything. When it came time to ride it was a big fat no. So I spent another weekend watching them ride through the river and just have a blast. The whole time I sat. I made myself 2 promises that day one was to never go camping with them again and the other was to have the most bad trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro 350x any of them ever seen.

So at 40 years old I've finally got one and I can't wait to tell my cousin he can't ride it cause it's has way more power than his stock one did and he couldn't handle it LOL!!

So anything I can do to make it perform correctly would just be awesome!

[Big Daddys 350x]

By the way I have a goki starter on it too, and with the decompression cable working that starter will bust a 12:1 motor right off (with a little battery don't have my new one yet) I also put a 400ex starter switch on it. This has been a long project. When I bought it, what there was of it it was all in boxes. It was a motor and a frame with broken front forks and a box of bolts. Boy was I a moron... That's why it's the six million dollar 3 wheeler.

I will try all of your suggestions and let you know what I come up with! Again thank you.

[jays375]

With that cam stock specs won't work on valve adjustment.Better check that quick.Same carb and jetting as before?Do a quick compression check.The guy who assembled it has experience?Did he do the head work?

[El Camexican]

With that cam stock specs won't work on valve adjustment. Are you saying that the lash setting will be different that stock with a different cam? Please explain.

[jays375]

Stock specs are to tight.Which you should see hard starting if tight.Still should be checked.Heavy duty valve springs installed?

[DohcBikes]

I swear I'm not picking on you yaeger, but I do disagree with everything you posted.


You can't just slap a hi-po motor together and expect it to run right off the bat. B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get paid lots of money to deliver an engine that runs right. Tuning should be included when you bet the farm on a one cylinder engine. This is not rocket science kids.


My best suggestion for you is to look locally for a dyno shop that allows for ATV tuning. It will cost you an extra 300 bucks but worth 6 million headaches ;)Holy hell back up here. Pay another shop to tune the one cylinder motor another shop built? Please don't do this.

I can tell you right off the bat that it's rich.No you can't!!

First of all, take it to the person you paid to build it. Tell them you are disappointed. If all else fails, pm me. I'll build you an engine that runs perfect the first time you ride, GUARANTEED.

[Big Daddys 350x]

Stock specs are to tight.Which you should see hard starting if tight.Still should be checked.Heavy duty valve springs installed?

Yes the valves were set per megacycle's specs. When I purchased the cam from megacycle I bought all the matching componets they told me I would need to use their cam.

My buddy is the one who built the motor, another guy built it for me and shipped it to me said it was all new. When we mounted it in the frame it would not kick over. My buddy tore down the entire engine to find a flat head screw in the motor. When he pulled it apart we found out that it didn't have any of the parts in it the original builder said it did. And the parts were used. So we took the two 350x motors I have and built one good one. I paid $750 for the first motor with a screw in it and used wore out parts. Then my buddy cometely reassembled the entire case/Trans the whole motor, that's when we installed everything from cylinder up brand new, except the head. It came was from the second motor and had come frome a atv race shop in Nevada where they did the pro port work and valves. You could tell all that was brand new and that it was a prof port job. All clean and smooth no gouge marks or grinder marks. In my buddy's defense he has a big family and not much time that's why I'm comming to you all here to try to take out as much guess work as possible. Sorry guys I know I keep writing books here I'll try to keep my comments shorter. Just trying to give as much info as possible.

[DohcBikes]

Yes the valves were set per megacycle's specs. When I purchased the cam from megacycle I bought all the matching componets they told me I would need to use their cam.

My buddy is the one who built the motor, another guy built it for me and shipped it to me said it was all new. When we mounted it in the frame it would not kick over. My buddy tore down the entire engine to find a flat head screw in the motor. When he pulled it apart we found out that it didn't have any of the parts in it the original builder said it did. And the parts were used. So we took the two 350x motors I have and built one good one. I paid $750 for the first motor with a screw in it and used wore out parts. And you expect it to run great?!!! So much wrong here.

You have "an incredible amount of money" into the engine you just described. Tough nuts man.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I swear I'm not picking on you yaeger, but I do disagree with everything you posted.

B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get paid lots of money to deliver an engine that runs right. Tuning should be included when you bet the farm on a one cylinder engine. This is not rocket science kids.

Holy hell back up here. Pay another shop to tune the one cylinder motor another shop built? Please don't do this.
No you can't!!

First of all, take it to the person you paid to build it. Tell them you are disappointed. If all else fails, pm me. I'll build you an engine that runs perfect the first time you ride, GUARANTEED.

The first guy is the one that screwed me I paid and ton of money for a motor that was supposed to be a bolt on and go. I got hammered because it was over the internet deal. I got nothing for a refund all I got for my 750 was a pretty nice head and bottom end. Witch really I can't complain I know what those parts cost and I understand the value. My friend is a ase certified auto tech. And has built many atv motors, he was being a pal and helping me out. I don't want to throw him under the bus cause if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have gotten it to this point. With 4 kids he doesn't have much time. So I am trying to figure this out kinda on my own.

I honestly and sincerely appreciate your time, and help. If we can't get it figured out I would be happy to pay for any further work done.

[DohcBikes]

This motor you have is going to be a bear to diagnose, but it runs. try stuff. Check the timing, check the valves, again, change the jets, check the float height, fuel, air delivery

oh wait!!!!!.

Check the compression.

Do a leakdown test.

Hire a mortorcycle mechanic.

[Big Daddys 350x]

And you expect it to run great?!!! So much wrong here.

You have "an incredible amount of money" into the engine you just described. Tough nuts man.

That's why I'm here to find out why I doesn't seem to make more power than my stock engine did. If you see something I did wrong by all means if your willing to share I'm willing to listen. I'm not interested in being right nor do I care if I look like a fool. My interest is in getting the motor to perform as it should. On the other hand maybe my difference in power from one to the other is unrealistic. I hear of guys running 70+ with a similar set up, I can assure you mine is nowhere near that. Thanks again.

[jays375]

Well now we known little more.When you say smooth on the finish in the head.Is it super smooth on the intake side?Another I just found out with a Megacycle cam.The head didn't flow above 3/4 throttle with it.Fuel was not atomizing.Which washed oil from cylinder.Luckily just ruined rings.I chased that problem for a long time.Tons of jets and different carbs.Had the head professionally ported and polished on a flow bench.Check the above mentioned items.Did you check to see if the valves were completely seating,no leaking?

[yaegerb]

I swear I'm not picking on you yaeger, but I do disagree with everything you posted.

B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get paid lots of money to deliver an engine that runs right. Tuning should be included when you bet the farm on a one cylinder engine. This is not rocket science kids.

Holy hell back up here. Pay another shop to tune the one cylinder motor another shop built? Please don't do this.
No you can't!!

First of all, take it to the person you paid to build it. Tell them you are disappointed. If all else fails, pm me. I'll build you an engine that runs perfect the first time you ride, GUARANTEED.

Disagree all you want. If I had a dollar for every thread I have read about people pissed off and butt hurt because they just blew the farm on the most BA motor they could build and it barely runs I would be retired right now having Loren Duncan and Curtis Sparks build my engines. Second I don't have a helluva lot of information to go on here....it's crappy on idle, won't pull wheelies, black smoke on WOT...All over the board. I am all for giving help if I have something to go on. Like maybe what jets are you running? What jets were in the 400ex carb? What's your electrical like? Clapped out or OEM? Have you checked timing? Etc, etc. the guy got apparently screwed by the original builder and he's in a two week window. We could sit here for the next two weeks and maybe get lucky or the poor guy could take it to a reputable ATV shop, have them check it over and dyno the bike for optimal power. I digress, good luck with the findings bro.

[HairyJR]

By the way I have a goki starter on it too, and with the decompression cable working that starter will bust a 12:1 motor right off (with a little battery don't have my new one yet) I also put a 400ex starter switch on it. This has been a long project. When I bought it, what there was of it it was all in boxes. It was a motor and a frame with broken front forks and a box of bolts. Boy was I a moron... That's why it's the six million dollar 3 wheeler.

I will try all of your suggestions and let you know what I come up with! Again thank you.

Read through all the threads, and along with many of the good suggestions, this one post about having a Goki starter raised the hair on the back of my neck. Having been a lurker on the site and reading many other peoples posts, "Bob Marlin" mentions there's differences between '85 and '86 starter parts. Could the fact you have 2 different motors parts put together maybe there's something rubbing internally or even spinning the starter motor, only a thought. LOL double check all the basic's.


"HJ" :beer

[Big Daddys 350x]

I certainly did not intend to offend anyone or start any trouble. Sounds like by my lack of knowledge I may have made someone else other than myself apear foolish that was trying to offer helpful advise. I've never built an atv motor before and am sorry to those about my lack of description. Thanks for the help guys but why do I get the feeling that the air around here is getting less than friendly. To any and all I may have mislead by my description, my most sincere apologies.

I don't know much about 3 wheelers but I do know a little about life. People come to these forums looking for help, usually like myself lack of knowledge hoping that someone else may have a tip or an idea for solving their problem. In today's world no one helps no one anymore. I grew up in a time where friends were anxious to lend a hand when needed just because they had a sincere desire to help their neighbor. These forums still hold a little bit of what humanity used to be. Persons like me are greatful to others that listen to them whine a little bit and vent about their problem. Then offer some kind advice like the one member who told me "I've been there hang in there you'll figure it out." That fellow 3 wheeled friend was like a pat on the back and the offer of a drink of cold water on a hot summers day from a kind neighbor. I hate to see others getting upset or lashing out at one another over my account. It's great to be passionate about something but don't let that crowd out common respect for your fellow man. This is a way of neighbor with similar interests to socialize with one another. And though there will be times when we don't agree, we should still keep up a respect for our neighbor being kind and courteous in our manner of speaking with them. For my part I played in this I'm truly sorry to any I may have mislead by my veague description. There is enough non sugar coated conversations in a days time, we should be ready for some sweet conversation in our free time. Now there is a book for you, I did it again. Thanks to all of you for your comments I feel as if you are there beside me looking on making suggestions and boy do I appreciate them.

[atc007]

It's all good. Everyones intentions are good,just very different deliveries :lol::crazy: I stand behind what I said last night. Internal binding/jetting. It COULD be a rubbed wire,cracked porcelain,,,too smooth on the intake ports,,and on and on and on to infinity!! One thing REALLY bothering me ,you say your Goki snaps her right off. I have some Gokis,,but they're all in boxes. Have never used one. But I believe it seems to be common knowledge,,they do NOT like to start a healthy 350X. Again,this is what I've read only...So,,if yours is firing right off,,with a weak small battery. That's low compression. As said above. Check your compression Now. Double check your timing is spot on. It's not hard and don't overthink it. Call your cam grinder and double check your valve clearances. Listen to your engine turning over. Any grinding/rubbing sounds? And metal in your oil filter.oil? Once you've done all these things,we can be a LITTLE more sure things inside are ok. Then you will be turning to jetting. Just curious. Will the kickstarter pretty much hold you up in the air? A fresh 350X should. I completely understand your buddy was helping you out but has a ton more important things on his plate than a piece of aluminum.:) We'll get ya figured out. Do you know the timing,or do you need a manual?

[DohcBikes]

yeager does not look foolish, if that's what you're saying. He's very knowledgeable and I respect his opinion greatly, just happen to disagree at the moment. No issues here.... like Bill said it's just my way. You said you have a couple weeks to look at it. Take a step back and relax for a second, we know how you feel.

There has been a lot of great advice so far. My advice for now is to do a compression and leak down test, or have a shop do the tests. This will give us a better picture of how the mechanical parts are working to make power.

Two weeks is PLENTY of time to figure this out. But, you should know that the answer might be that the engine needs built, again.

Just woke up, gimme some time to read your symptoms again and I'll try to form some ideas that don't come across as arrogant.

Bill's binding idea will be rattling around for sure....

Did y'all open the bottom end as well? Sorry if that's been answered already!

[jb2wheels]

... "Bob Marlin" mentions there's differences between '85 and '86 starter parts. Could the fact you have 2 different motors parts put together maybe ...

Good point - make sure you have a matched flywheel/stator set - 85 and 86 were different and it matters.
I think it also means the CDI needs to match as well. Needs more researching since I have CRS.

[El Camexican]

Everyones intentions are good,just very different deliveries

Well said. That should be the banner statement for this site.

So sorry to hear about all the dicking around you've been getting starting from childhood and up to this engine. I hope it ends up being worth all your efforts.:beer

[6speedthumper]

A few other things to look at, and a few things for us to get some info on. New spark plug? Is it a quality plug like NGK? Is it gapped to spec? Were the valves at least lapped? Was a valve job done? Was it done by someone with a good reputation? Did your bud gap the piston rings according to the piston manufacturer? Did you guys try reusing the head gasket or is it new? What are the jet sizes and what position is the jet needle clip in? Is the decomp cable properly adjusted? Was the cylinder bored and honed to match the piston? Or, was the cylinder just honed and new piston thrown in?

[Big Daddys 350x]

I will try to list as many details as possible about the build.

Parts List first
12:1 cr Wiesco Piston
162-30 b Megacycle Hard faced billet Camshaft
Specs as follows

Valve lift at .040 zero clearance on intake side
.365"
Exhaust
.370" at .040 zero clearance

Intake duration
244*
Exhaust is
250*

The intake lobe center is 105* and the exhaust is 109*

Cold valve lash is .004 on the intake side and .006 on the exhaust side

Notes on card: Must use heavy duty valve springs. Ok with stock guides should clear stock piston, but check clearance.
Additional notes: If using valve springs other that the rd springs recommended make sure they have at least .425 travel to coil bind.

Back to parts list
162/RA hard weld/grind rocker arms

[Big Daddys 350x]

I will try to list as many details as possible about the build.

Parts List first
12:1 cr Wiesco Piston
162-30 b Megacycle Hard faced billet Camshaft
Specs as follows

Valve lift at .040 zero clearance on intake side
.365"
Exhaust
.370" at .040 zero clearance

Intake duration
244*
Exhaust is
250*

The intake lobe center is 105* and the exhaust is 109*

Cold valve lash is .004 on the intake side and .006 on the exhaust side

Notes on card: Must use heavy duty valve springs. Ok with stock guides should clear stock piston, but check clearance.
Additional notes: If using valve springs other that the rd springs recommended make sure they have at least .425 travel to coil bind.

Back to parts list
162/RA hard weld/grind rocker arms

Guys I am sorry this is only the first portion of my post. I went into great detail listing the assebly of the engine and every detail along the way and when i went to post it kicked my out of the session and when I got back on this is all thats left of what i wrote. This has happened three times and I am exhausted. I will list in great detail the build process tomorrow.

Basically what I put was. The machinist my friend and I checked everything along the way as the engine was built. I dont have the energy toinght to list it all again. Sorry and thanks so much for the kind words and all the responses.

[DohcBikes]

Hey guys got my 350x running again. It has a brand new top end, 12:1 weisco piston megacycle cam ported and polished head stainless valves 400ex carb with sigma 6 jet kit.Ring gaps before assembly? Staggered? How much porting? How many engines has the builder ported? What are the jet sizes? We need a base to start from if jetting is to be messed with. What's the float height?


It starts and runs but misses a little above idle turn the throttle a little more and it cleans up.
Only black smoke when it's at wot and then just a little then clears out. Are you positive that the ignition timing is on? A service manual will clearly illustrate how to properly set the timing to stock specs. You do have a honda service manual, right?... Then, you can fudge it two or three degrees either way to see what works best with your setup.



It seems like the engine is dragging down when you take off up to 1/4 throttle then it stops sputtering and power starts to come on. My wife asked me why are you taking off in second gear. Feels like driving a car with the timing way retarded.
Um, are you positive that the ignition timing is on... Also, as 007 suggests, there could be something dragging it down, mechanically.

It is possible for builders to catch the lower oil control ring on the cylinder on assembly.

You have a lot of money into this build. Get a compression reading. Do a leakdown test. There are instructions plastered all over the internet.

I have more to say but I also have a tee time. You can't just sit there and stare at the motor. Gotta check and change stuff and see how it reacts.

Fixing engines over the internet is exponentially tougher than in person....

[6speedthumper]

Fixing engines over the internet is exponentially tougher than in person....


Damn did you ever hit the nail on the head!!


Dohc brought up a good point about the staggering of the piston rings. Did you or did you not stagger them properly? Did you make sure that the rings were installed with the correct side facing up? Some rings have an angle cut into the face of them, and sometimes they can be beveled. Not many rings come without numbers or letters stamped into them, near the end gap, and those numbers/letters need to be installed facing up (99.99% of the time, again consult piston mfg's instructions).

How about your clutch? You did say that it feels like it's "dragging down". Is what you are feeling clutch related, like it's slipping or the cable is adjusted too tight?

[Zach]

Before you get too worked up make sure the basics are ok. A couple have posted this, make sure you have good compression. That right there could tell you if there is a valve timing problem or an issue with the rings. You are blowing black smoke so I am assuming your spark plug is also black? The condition of the spark plug can tell you a whole story of what the bike is doing internally. If it is lacking that much in power have you checked to see if you have weak spark? Also try a different brand spark plug. The resistance level in your spark plug or the material it is made out of could be causing you a whole world of problems. Some more basic information of what you have done to diagnose your problem could also be helpful to try to pinpoint where your issue is.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I'll continue on

I need to answer these questions first.

The piston was purchased from the machine shop that bored the cylinder.
The std bore cylinder was bored to 82 mm and the piston was hone fit to the cylinder.

The piston rings supplied with the kit were installed 180* apart from one another starting g with the oil ring.
We installed the cylinder and head at that point we clayed the piston and took measurement to be sure of piston to valve clearance. We also measured coil bind at max lift on every valve. When we reached .425 we stopped measuring.

As the engine was assembled we checked every part for free movement as the next corresponding part was installed.
The motor has tons of compression without the decompression cable hooked up you can barely kick the bike over. All symptoms were prior to the goki install. Cam timing is correct the cylinder received mild port work and blending. New valves seals springs retainers and keepers were installed. The head was pulled apart and inspected by us as well as our atv machinist. All was brand new and within spec of what we were using.

There is absolutely no engine noise what so every it just lacks power in my opinion and bogs off idle. The motor was built using a factory honda 350x specific manual. All parts were installed checked and rechecked per the manual except for the camshaft and valve Trane.

We have adjusted the valves 2 times and change oil 3 times with about 3 hrs of run time no signs of metal. We run 110 and Brad penn 20w50 oil per the cam grinders request.

Goki starter will not turn the motor over without the decompression cable installed and working correctly. However when the decompression lever is engauged it spin the motor over fast and free.

On the valve Trane cam lube was used to install all components.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I'll continue on

I need to answer these questions first.

The piston was purchased from the machine shop that bored the cylinder.
The std bore cylinder was bored to 82 mm and the piston was hone fit to the cylinder.

The piston rings supplied with the kit were installed 180* apart from one another starting g with the oil ring.
We installed the cylinder and head at that point we clayed the piston and took measurement to be sure of piston to valve clearance. We also measured coil bind at max lift on every valve. When we reached .425 we stopped measuring.

As the engine was assembled we checked every part for free movement as the next corresponding part was installed.
The motor has tons of compression without the decompression cable hooked up you can barely kick the bike over. All symptoms were prior to the goki install. Cam timing is correct the cylinder received mild port work and blending. New valves seals springs retainers and keepers were installed. The head was pulled apart and inspected by us as well as our atv machinist. All was brand new and within spec of what we were using.

There is absolutely no engine noise what so every it just lacks power in my opinion and bogs off idle. The motor was built using a factory honda 350x specific manual. All parts were installed checked and rechecked per the manual except for the camshaft and valve Trane.

We have adjusted the valves 2 times and change oil 3 times with about 3 hrs of run time no signs of metal. We run 110 and Brad penn 20w50 oil per the cam grinders request.

Goki starter will not turn the motor over without the decompression cable installed and working correctly. However when the decompression lever is engauged it spin the motor over fast and free.

On the valve Trane cam lube was used to install all components.

The valve Trane was assembled with the specs from megacycle. The head also had received a fresh valve job. And again was inspected by our machinist. His words "everything is new on the heads it hasn't been run since it's been built."

The carb was a stock used 400ex with factory jetting. The problem was obvious right out of the gate. So I called and ordered a sigma 6 jet kit for my application. They require all your engine specs before sending a kit.

It was installed per their instructions and seems to help it start a little quicker using the kicker.
Still down on power and the bog.

The lower end of the motor was cometely dis assembled and checked for and debris due to the fact that a screw was found in the motor. All was cleaned and reassembled. As each part was installed we checked to see if it moved freely as it should. No problems and no other parts were found loose in the engine.

The ignition system is completely stock from my previous motor. Both engines were 85 models. The coil was replaced with a new one and new ngk plug was installed.

The other day we drained the fuel installed another new filter changed the plug put in fresh gas and change the oil for the 3rd time after the goki install.

The clutch doesn't slip and is adjusted correctly. New cable new

[atc007]

I only see 2 things,,everything was good PRIOR to Goki install. And Jetting. What does a NEW plug look like after a ride?

[Big Daddys 350x]

Cut off my post again man this is frustrating. New msr lever

I do not know stock jetting nor do I know current jetting I was not there with him when he did it.

Anymore questions or something I left out please ask.

Thank you guys so so much! I'm not saying nothing could be wrong with the internals of the engine but I do know it was not just slapped together. I was there for 99% of the build and I double checked everything that was done to the motor with my machinist who also happens to be a friend of mine.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I only see 2 things,,everything was good PRIOR to Goki install. And Jetting. What does a NEW plug look like after a ride?

Sorry I mislead you everything was the same after starter was installed. The motor had the same issues and performed the same before and after

A new ngk plug was installed with the stock carb and new one was installed with jet kit. The other day I changed it again because it was black and sooty but not wet

If the bottom screw on the bowl is turned in all the way it seems to run the best. If the foam filter is installed the problem gets worse.

My electrical system cdi rectifier stator is all from the previous motor and is orgional, nothing new.

I thought it felt like the timing was not advanced enough?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Keep it simple, put the stock carb on it. Get rid of the jet kit, put the stock needle back in it. Start off with Keihin jets only,#42 pilot, fuel screw at 1 and a half turns out, clip in the center groove and a #165 main jet with the lid off the air box. Go from they and tell me what it runs like from there. If you need to run the air box lid drill 6 one and a half inch holes in the top of the lid. If it's running OK put a old plug in it that has carbon on it. Get the engine warmed up and hold it wide open in 6th gear down the road for 5 seconds and kill the engine. When you pull the plug look at the ground strap. There should be a distinct line in the center of the 90* bend. If the carbon line is down around the bend towards the threads it's too lean and you can just tape over 2 holes on the air box lid, that will be the same as going up on the main to a #170. If the carbon line is on top of the strap towards the end of the ground strap it's too rich. This should run real close to what your motor should run. If it's still a turd then there is something else wrong, my guess is the CDI advance is burned out. Back in the day we had a fix for the advance on the 85's to advance the timing 5* but it might be better to get a 250x wiring harness and after market cdi if your stock one is bad.

[Big Daddys 350x]

First off let me say if there is ever a 3wheeler get together I can make it to, Boys!! THE BEER IS ON ME!!

Or the beverages are on me whatever you prefer!!

I owe all you guys for the help.

I will try what what Mickey said. Mickey my question would be I just bought a factory air box system for my trike (I didn't have one) is there anyway to do this without cutting my airbox lid?

I would like to do the occasional deep creek crossing. Wink, wink. If not I'll cut that sucker up, most of its time would be spent at the sand dunes.

I live in the northwest corner of Arkansas. A lot of cool trail riding here but I'm about 5 hrs from Little Sahara Sand Dunes in Waynoka, Ok. And that's where my family and I go on atv vacation.

I can't say enough how thankful I am for all the help.

[Big Daddys 350x]

If there is a better ignition option for these trikes. Point me in the right direction and I'll replace it. I believe someone said there is a way to advance timing mechanically?

I'm pretty sure I need to to the jetting first, but if there is a new ignition system or even just a cdi box I would like to replace whatever old parts I can and then just keep them as spares. Going to the sand dunes for a week, I would hate to be over there and one of these old parts go out and leave me sitting it out again, if there are new replacements avail especially if it was a hotter ignition I would think it would be wise to replace.

I am still going to do a compression test and leak down test tomorrow too as well as readjust the valves. I will also recheck my timing. I'm gonna replace the oil pump too because I'm pretty sure it's the factory one and I've been reading here to put a new 300ex op in it. So gonna have to drain oil again. Probably gonna paint filter it and reuse it this time it's about 20 min old.

[atc007]

If you know anyone with a 350X,ask to swap your CDI. Only takes a few minutes,and you'll have a better direction to head. also literally a few minutes swaps the carbs,,well,,once you've done it a 1000 times lol. Don't sweat about the help. You came on here with ZERO attitude genuinely looking for help. And when done in this manner... This is exactly what you will get. :)

[Mickey Dunlap]

First off let me say if there is ever a 3wheeler get together I can make it to, Boys!! THE BEER IS ON ME!!

Or the beverages are on me whatever you prefer!!

I owe all you guys for the help.

I will try what what Mickey said. Mickey my question would be I just bought a factory air box system for my trike (I didn't have one) is there anyway to do this without cutting my airbox lid?

I would like to do the occasional deep creek crossing. Wink, wink. If not I'll cut that sucker up, most of its time would be spent at the sand dunes.

I live in the northwest corner of Arkansas. A lot of cool trail riding here but I'm about 5 hrs from Little Sahara Sand Dunes in Waynoka, Ok. And that's where my family and I go on atv vacation.

I can't say enough how thankful I am for all the help.

You can run the lid on it, but it will kill the power, it would be like running down the road with duck tape over your mouth. If you do put the lid on drop down on the main jet to about a #145 to #150.

As far as advancing the timing you can cut the flywheel key on the right hand side a 1/8th of a inch half way down so it will still fit tight in the key way but you will be able turn the fly wheel to the left and lock it down. That will give you about 5-6* more advance but it will only see the difference mainly on the bottom because the 350x cdi retards so much. It's not that you need a hotter spark, it's more that you need a different advance curve. That's why I said to go with the 250x stuff. The stock 250x has a better curve but it also has a rev limiter in it so if you can still find a aftermarket cdi for one then that would be best.

There are still things like the pipe that's going to hold it back on top end but you can look at that once you get it running right.

[6speedthumper]

400ex cdi can be used IF you have the 86 stator and flywheel. Ditch that jet kit, and ALWAYS run manufacturer jets. Have never seen a jet kit actually work.

[Dirtcrasher]

I just scrolled thru some of this as I have had some gremlins in a 350X motor myself recently.

1st - You CANNOT change ignition timing.
2nd - You CANNOT change ignition timing.

Your valve timing, you may want to use a degree wheel in which case the sprocket holes can be opened up and dowel pinned for future correct positioning.

I just call WEB and ask for the valve lash and in my case it's .004 and .006. Which one is larger?? The one that gets hotter!!

Now that's out of the way. Although some will argue their points validity; building a motor with 8 upgrades at once can be troublesome.

With the similar thought "make one jetting change at a time", it's the same principal.

You have a 12:1 piston, must run race gas (please don't argue.... ) and usually requires a full fledged race cam which will put the power at the upper range. If you

put a lesser cam in there, they don't like each other and you will not get the benefits and losses of a high compression piston.

Jetting is a difficult task for allot of people. The 1st problem being, where do I start my jetting with these components??

The 2nd problem being jets are 5$ a pop and honestly, I have 500.00$ in jets for 3 models and it's not enough; Unless I get lucky.

I'll share a problem that kept my pride and glory 350RX dead from Trikefest 14 to last week. I stuck it in a corner and got the 200x flying!!

Back up a bit and "all I did" was put a clutch in it. This was not true, but due to my own actions I forgot I changed the stator cover.

I was losing compression on start up and thats because I learned 3 months later that I learned that aside from torque specs, I don't normally need many manual references. I lined up all the dots, however, thats not how it goes, refer to manual. So bing bang fixed right?? Nope, DOA again.

So here is something 'm willing to bet very few of you know. Part 1 - there are NO definite 85 flywheels/stators in an 85 or 86. Owning half a dozen take out motors told me this.

But, what DOES FIT is the "so called 86 flywheel" OVER an 85 stator but not the other way around. So, I had changed the cover because I scratched the sh!t out of the 86 cover and inadvertently placed a LARGER ID flywheel over the 85 "type" stator that was in a take out motor untouched. And it gave a small spark that was weak. Put the correct flywheel on, 1 kick - vrooooom.

Headpipe glowed like crazy so the pilot and fuel screw are certainly in need of attention.

That motor took me 5X to figure out what I had done wrong, but I learned from it........

[Big Daddys 350x]

I seen a new cdi for sale from ricks motorsports. But if the 250x has a better curve maybe I should go that way.

So if I get an 86 flywheel and an 86 stator I can run 400ex cdi. My wife has a 400 ex.

[Dirtcrasher]

Screw the CDI, get that stock CDI and jetting and also degree in the cam. It's not expensive or hard to do; Call WEB or MEGACYCLE.

Your chasing a demon and making MORE changes.

Just like me, I got mine running, THEN knew I had a small jetting issue. But, I didn't mess with it until I spent 20 minutes on my track racing it and ensuring everything was in time and powerful/strong.

That motor has a 10.25 : 1 piston and a mid - range cam. The FCR carb is light years beyond any sparks 400EX carb or OEM 400EX carb that are common swaps. Mine is a 39MM and thanks to HALLS EXTREME PERFORMANCE, just like him, I tossed it on and it ran great right off the bat aside from the lean pilot\ - chicken!

However, if you change the carb until it runs right, your repeating the same mistakes; small changes at a time....

With a 4poke, you can get away with some lean jetting but you have to recognize that and deal with it soon. And leaner is meaner; I also don't know what your plug looks like. I don't always need a WOT hit the kill switch to read the plug, rather I run it for a bit throughout the whole range and see what the plug looks like after a few hours of beating on it.

On the track I am 1/2 to WOT so the pilot doesn't do crap and it can wait....

[jays375]

My Sparks 39mm FCR which they sell as a kit for a 400ex works awesome!202103

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Mighty Perty buddy!!

Glad mine worked (used) out of the box, I used non-chlorinated carburetor cleaner on it.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I'll do the jetting first just running out of time to order a cdi if that's what's wrong. I would like to replace my old one anyway instead of waiting for it to give me problems at an inconvenient time. Like the sand dunes. Wonder if I should just buy the remanufactured on from ricks motorsports or buy a different set up for mine. Any suggestions on that would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[HairyJR]

So here is something 'm willing to bet very few of you know. Part 1 - there are NO definite 85 flywheels/stators in an 85 or 86. Owning half a dozen take out motors told me this.

But, what DOES FIT is the "so called 86 flywheel" OVER an 85 stator but not the other way around. So, I had changed the cover because I scratched the sh!t out of the 86 cover and inadvertently placed a LARGER ID flywheel over the 85 "type" stator that was in a take out motor untouched. And it gave a small spark that was weak. Put the correct flywheel on, 1 kick - vrooooom.


“Big Daddys 350x” I’m not trying to highjack your tread as I posted earlier comment about the Goki starter but have a new to me project using an ‘85 350x motor and the outer crankcase cover is damaged, chain thru cover that needs replaced and "Dirtcrasher" says there appears to be differences. I’ll be purchasing a used complete cover/stator assembly as I also need electrical plug connectors.

“Dirtcrasher” I may be old and senile but can’t make heads or tails as what you said about the differences in your post. First are the outer crankcase covers the same? Are the flywheels the same? Are the stator assemblies different? So I think your saying what’s needed is same year components to operate correctly.

One last question, can the ’86 CDI be used on a ’85 set up or vise versa?

"HJ" :beer

[Big Daddys 350x]

Not at all there good buddy! What I know is goki has two different kits for the 85 350x and the 86 350x they are different part numbers. Not sure what the difference. Best money I ever spent on the trike. It looks better in person to me to than in pictures. The starter is big and well built . Mine does not have any funny sounds or anything. With the decompression engaged, and a fresh batt. It will spin the motor over very fast. I love it.

I have tons of good parts and think I have a pretty good cover if you don't already have one.

[RubberSalt]

In the case of running like crap with no power. From what I can tell from the reading..

Assuming wirring is correct and you have a problem tat is repeatable shows me that what ever the cause is, is static and is not changing. This can be ruled down to 4 different areas typically.

1. Cam/valve timing. You've verified this is correct visually.

2. Compression - Actual numbers are needed. Without the decomp lever, the engine will not crank over. It's probably good.

3. Ignition timing - Stock is great for pump gas. Does 110 octane require advanced timing? Is it a slower burning fuel that needs to be ignited sooner? later?

4. Carburetor/jetting - This depends on the fuel heavily. Is it some random 110 octane fuel or is this vp 110 race fuel? A/F ratio for vp 110 is about 14:1(Does not factor in efficiency of engine). Heavily oxygenated fuels rated at 110 octane have a ration that is closer to 8:1. You could be very very far of with jetting. And it sounds like it if your puffing black smoke. It also sounds like a leaded fuel. Alcohol is a very very clean fuel. I'd recommend mixing a little 2 stroke oil with 100% alcohol. Adding an air filter doesn't just add a restriction to incoming air, it causes more vacuum within a carburetor. Fuel isn't sucked out of the carb, it's boiled under a vacuum. More vacuum, more fuel. You'll need to be within the A/F ratio for the specific fuel to reap it's benefits. You stated that it runs best with the screw all the way in on the bottom of the carb. This is your fuel screw. It blocks the pilot jet from the carb. The further in this is, the less gas you will get. My suggestion is to drop 3 sizes on your main jet, place the needle in the middle, and lower your pilot jet 1 size... OR put the 400ex carb in with stock jetting and start from there. The suggestion is a big change and should note a good change on power. If it helps, drop the main jet 3 more sizes. As you get closer to the correct ratio, you'll make more power.

I've personally built up quite a jet kit. Every modification may require rejetting. I usually swap 3 sizes at a time until i get close. From there ill start moving 1 jet at a time. I like to start with the pilot jet in most cases. This will get the bottom end running right. The pilot jet will have the most dramatic affect between idle and 25% throttle. It will effect WOT by some 2-3%. For throttle at 25% to 75% is going to be your needle position/main jet combination. Main jet is going to be 75%- WOT.

Typically tune idle, then WOT then Needle. Occasionally the needle will need adjusted to reach WOT.

[jb2wheels]

...

“Dirtcrasher” I may be old and senile but can’t make heads or tails as what you said about the differences in your post. First are the outer crankcase covers the same? Are the flywheels the same? Are the stator assemblies different? So I think your saying what’s needed is same year components to operate correctly.

One last question, can the ’86 CDI be used on a ’85 set up or vise versa?...

Stator covers are the same. Stators are different and flywheels are different to match the stator.

I have an 86 engine/stator/flywheel in my 85 including the 85 wiring harness and CDI and it runs great with no issues.

Quote from this thread (http://honda350x.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1004)on another forum:

'85's used an Nippon Denso Stator and rotor. Early '85's had a problen with the epoxy that covered the stator windings melting under engine heat... Late 85's and all '86's came with a Mitsuba setup.
The Mitsuba set-up is the way to go, it allows you to use the 1999-2004 400EX CDI.
Caution: Although the ND stator will fit inside the Mitsuba rotor, the Mitsuba stator will not fit in the ND rotor. Also, since the E-gap is larger using the ND stator with the Mitsuba rotor, you can expect either very low or no output from the stator.

Paraphrasing:
early 85 = ND stator & flywheel
late 85 & 86 = Mitsuba stator & flywheel
early flywheel won't fit over late stator
late flywheel fits over early stator and runs like ass if at all

What I don't know is the flywheel ID for each version but I saw it posted somewhere...

Picture 86 Mitsuba on left, 85 ND on right:

202141

Basically all repeated here (http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/153091-atc-350x-cdi-question)

[Big Daddys 350x]

Anyone on the Ricks Motorsport CDI? By the way we bought a jet kit for my sons 350 warrior and fired it today. Same company sigma 6 same price. Same problems. Both jet kit were supposed to be build to the specs of our bikes. I have about $100.00 in both kits. Both kits were installed to the letter of the instruction provided in the kit and guess what exact same problem. Jetted the warrior down and it cleaned up a bunch but still has a flat spot off idle. Maybe I just don't know what I am doing but I can tell you both kits were way off. For me I'll never buy a jet kit or anything else from them again. I paied the extra money because they were supposed to be Taylor made for the application. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

[jays375]

When it comes to jet kits you are better of buying individual jets.Which has been mentioned by others.You can't buy a kit that will work for your combination perfectly.Like many others here I have built up a good sized collection of jets.Not just ones for trikes.Think one cylinder is tough,try four.I am still learning about jetting myself.Sometimes you get lucky pretty quick.Other times there are issues you need to figure out first.When jetting isn't working out you find this out.

[Big Daddys 350x]

Ya both kits were bought before either one was installed. I guess more is more theory doesn't apply here. I figured as expensive as the kits are that they would best the best lol! Another lesson learned the hard way. I really don't think I know of any other way though.

Does anyone know anything about the oem cdi for the 350x that ricks motorsports makes. My trip is next week and I want to buy another cdi incase this one is bad but I don't want to learn another lesson the hard way. It's $127 and new but it's oem specs so no new timing curve or anything like that. Just a good spare of the stock version.

[6speedthumper]

You need to get that bike jetted correctly before you start spending money even more needlessly. Put the stock needle back in the carb, on the middle notch (if it has notches, my new EX carb has a fixed position needle), and put GENUINE Keihin jets in it. The stock 400ex jets are 38 pilot, 150 main, and the mixture screw 1.5 turns out from lightly seated (IIRC). Run it, plug chop it, adjust your jets accordingly. The larger the jet, the richer the mixture (giving the engine more fuel), the smaller the jet the leaner the mixture (giving the engine less fuel). You need to plug chop the idle circuit, the mid range/jet needle circuit, and the main circuit at WOT. Do them one at a time and get the circuit you are working on dialed in, then move on to the next. You need to be riding the bike, with the engine under load, to get an accurate reading on the plug to see if you need to lean out or richen that particular circuit, except the idle circuit (literally let the engine idle, at operating temp, for a good 5 minutes). It's not TOO often you will have to change the jet needle's position (moving the clip to another notch). Most can be left on the middle notch, but, not always. Lowering the needle (moving the clip to a higher notch) will lean out that circuit. Raising the needle will richen it. The needle and the main work together, and you are best to get the main circuit dialed in before messing with the needle, if you even have to. Again, most times the needle will not need adjusting.

You want a brown paper bag look to the plug, or, "golden brown", on the center electrode. If the plug is white, or grey, that circuit is lean, and if it's grey it's not off by too much and may only need the next largest jet. But, every machine is different, this is just a generalization I'm giving. If the plug is black that particular circuit is rich and needs a smaller jet. Don't forget, the idle mixture screw is used to basically fine tune the idle circuit. So, if for example, the plug is grey with a 38 pilot jet, but a bit black with a 40 pilot jet, you can use the mixture screw to get it just right, you pretty much have to choose which jet to leave in the carb, and adjust the screw accordingly and plug chop again. Turn the screw in to lean the idle circuit, turn it out to richen; turn the screw in 1/4 turn increments until the plug shows it's dialed in. Rule of thumb, two complete 360* turns is equal to one jet size.


The thing with jetting is patience, simply because you may have to take that carb off a dozen times to make jetting changes. Also, if you are not confident to tackle jetting, find someone that is both confident, and experienced, to do it. And, remember, it is best to start off with jetting that is a tad rich and have to jet it leaner, then have it lean and need to make it rich. That being said, Mickey's earlier post about recommended jet sizes to start with, are pretty on target to get a baseline. Just as an example, I built my X with a 395cc 11:1 big bore kit, custom ground cam, ported and polished, full Supertrapp exhaust, 400ex carb, Dynatech 400ex cdi, K&N w/Outerwears and am running the air box lid; my jetting came in at 38 pilot, 180 main, and 2.25 turns out on the mixture screw. Not saying that is what your X will need. It's just an example.

In a nutshell, that's basic jetting practices. Again, if this is not something you are confident doing, find someone who is.

[hawaiirider]

hey i had similar problems with my built 200x after it was built as it didnt have any power either, i loosened the valve lash and leaned it out considerably which was opposite of what i thought, it runs great now plug is light brown. still compared to a 250r these 4 strokes seem slow even fully built.

[HairyJR]

I have tons of good parts and think I have a pretty good cover if you don't already have one.

thanks for the offer, when you return from vacation PM me and we'll work something out.

No answers to your Ricks' Motorsports cdi question and with the idea of helping you too, no one has answered my question "can a '86 cdi be used on a '85 or vise versa" ? Could buy a used one to try or have as spare. You might be able to talk someone at the dune vacation spot to try theirs on your ailing 350x just another easy way to trouble shoot and eliminate one variable. LOL , dune riding season is here......keep us posted....

"HJ" :beer

[Big Daddys 350x]

Ya just got my skat sand paddles and dune runner mo-hawk front tire. Had them ground from bead to bead on mint 250r gold rims! They look so sick on the wheels. I gotta figure out how to post pics and show you guys what it looks like.