86 Big Red Electrical/Starter Issues

[newby200x]

Just acquired an 86 Big Red over the weekend. It was sitting in a barn for about the past 8 years or so without running. From the story I was told about it, I assumed it was just a fuel issue to get it going again, but it turns out it has no spark. Electrical is not my expertise on these machines so any help is appreciated on it. I had a spare coil laying around so I swapped them out, but no luck. Took the kill switch apart and jumped the connection, but still no luck. Hooked up some jumper cables to it to test the neutral light and it works, so I know the ignition switch is good as well as the circuit for the neutral indicator. All the fuses were good, looked through almost all the connection points and still nothing. So I'm guessing it maybe a stator or CDI issue? Picking up a multimeter today to I can start testing, beginning w/ the spark plug first, just in case its a bad plug. Is there something I'm missing here? Also, the gears were removed some time ago when the reduction gear had some teeth go bad on it, so the electric start has been disabled. Is the reduction gear the same from 85-87? The same in the SX's as well? Thanks again in advance.

[OKSTATE#1]

This probably isn't your problem...but the little wires that go to the coil can get frayed really easily on these. It's a quick check anyway, and you might have checked them over when you were changing out the coil. But if they look like the covering has come off and are bare, it could be the problem. My 86 wouldn't kick over and I eventually found this to be the case, spliced in some good wire on the harness and boom...running again.

[effort=results]

http://youtu.be/wAQs77ncKQM

http://youtu.be/wAQs77ncKQM
hope its not something like this that i saw in this vid.

[3wheelrider]

You probably have a nonfunctional flywheel -with the damage shown. I'd swap that next for sure. BUT:
From what I've seen & heard: That damage is due to a chain reaction.: The one-way bearing(clutch) is bad-thus taking out the starter gears, then the broken gear teeth fall down to where the stator & flywheel are & gets bounced around-it will happen again right away if you dont take care of the one-way bearing.... I'm about to finally do the one-way bearing myself on my '85 ES which has suffered the same exact fate as yours. I've done the stator,flywheel,& gears- now need the one-way bearing next. I havent dared start it with the starter gears installed till the one-way bearing is done too.

[newby200x]

Good advice on the flywheel..guess the one way clutch going out is why the gears would strip in the first place. Going to test tonight, only had time to test the plug and coil last night, which were good. So on the stator and pulse generator tonight. I know the CDI's are different between 85 and 86, but if the flywheel and stator are bad what all years and makes are interchangeable?

[3wheelrider]

OK-I re-read your 1st post & rewatched ALL of video. sorry-it was late....I thought you stated you had swap the stator with another already, That stator is trash that spare is not great looking either-maybe better. Good deal with swappin the flywheel with a good one-missed that.. Dont go by the year for the stator/flywheel- Measure the stator/flywheel if you go to buy another or get a matching set stator/flywheel of the other type if necesssary. Theyre not all the same size.

[newby200x]

Stator tested bad, so looks like I'll be digging into it. Is there anyway to test the one way starter clutch w/o removing the flywheel? Should you be able to hold the gear back while turning the engine over?

[atc007]

Should lock one way. You asked about reduction gears, So your one way is shot if your reduction gear is bad.

[newby200x]

Tore into it last night. What's weird is the stator had been replaced before when the gears when out originally, this one was not OEM. Flywheel looked in good shape, one tiny nick in it. The starter gear locked one way and spun freely the other, some play in it, but seems to be fully functionable yet, so not sure if it really needs replacing or not. Is there anything that could cause a stator to go bad? I'm just wondering why this will be the third one that will be on this machine.

[Keepah Rolln]

Tore into it last night. What's weird is the stator had been replaced before when the gears when out originally, this one was not OEM. Flywheel looked in good shape, one tiny nick in it. The starter gear locked one way and spun freely the other, some play in it, but seems to be fully functionable yet, so not sure if it really needs replacing or not. Is there anything that could cause a stator to go bad? I'm just wondering why this will be the third one that will be on this machine.

Heating up too much from trying to charge a bad battery.....How olds your battery? Replace it before you buy another stator.....

[Hair Bear Bunch]

There's a second oneway on the rhs, it's the faliure of this one that stuffs the reduction gears.
Here's how I understand it...
When you switch the engine off, the last thing that happens is the engine comes up to tdc but not over it so in 'bounces' and wants to turn backwards. The rh clutch locks it instantly against the kickstart mechanism and prevents any backwards movement.
If that rh clutch fails, the backwards motion of the engine locks onto the lh clutch and in turn gives the reduction gears and starter a massive hit backwards and breaks/strips the teeth.
When you get a replacement reduction set, make sure to mesh them together as a set before fitting as although the primary and finals are the same, and when fitted all looks good, there are two different sets and they won't mix. The intermediate gears can differ and lock up.
Hopefully someone will chime in and either agree or - more likely - tell me I'm talking twadle and help you properly.
Good luck, Rob.

Links to my clutch change threads here. Hope they help.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163210-Clutch-availability

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/168144-Damaged-Br-clutch-cover-lesson-learned

[newby200x]

Battery is way old, it will be getting replaced. I'll have to wait and see once it gets running about the "shutdown clank". Looks like another project if it does.

[ps2fixer]

I have a spare stator/flywheel pair I could sell off a parts 250es engine. Petty sure it is an 85, but I would have to dig it up. Shoot me a pm if you are interested and I'll get pics and test it with a multi meter. Took a quick peek on ebay and wow... looks like they run $150-200. I would like around $80 shipped for the pair.

EDIT:

I *might* have the reduction gears as well, again I would have to do some digging for them. I'm pretty sure I used the pin that the one gear rides on, but I should have the gears somewhere yet.

[newby200x]

Just bought one this morning from a running machine. Going to make sure it runs alright, then go to working on the electric start. Thanks!

[newby200x]

For whats it's worth...the stator I got was from an 85 and worked just fine with my 86 flywheel. Fired in 3 kicks.