1983 ATC 110 ticking noise

[kbags948]

Hello everyone,

I have a recently rebuilt 110 (top end) and new intake and exhaust valves that I lapped in, and now it starts first or second pull and idles good, but there is a noticeable ticking noise at idle. I've checked, and re-checked the valves and the timing several times and all is good. I've also gone through the cam chain tensioner adjustment a few times. Most recently I took out the pushrod and springs to inspect them, and they seemed fine. When I reinstalled everything I adjusted the tensioner once again and did hear a little change in the pitch of the ticking, so I believe it self adjusted properly, but there is still that dreadful ticking sound. Any thoughts as to what it could be?

Thanks!

[tri again]

Wish I knew. I have a 250 sx with the same annoying come and go tick.
Is there a separate oil tube to the head?
Gasket sealer glob in an internal head oiler passage?

Don't quite understand the difference because of the cam grind being theorhetically symmetrical but valve adjustments should be made at TDC.

ps - can you click on
service manual
?
There may be some cap nut specific to one of the head studs that allows oil
to get to the top, but I'm sure you know about that.
Maybe a way to loosen that cap nut to see if oil pumps out?
It's been a few years since I tore a 90/110 apart.
At any rate, I DO understand the frustration.

[hoosierlogger]

Is say if you didn't put in a new timing chain you should have. It is probably stretched too much to tension right.

[kbags948]

Thanks for the response. There is not a separate oil tube to the head, and when I rebuilt it it was all original gasket material, so no sealer present. I believe I have the head nuts on the correct studs for oil passage. I was sure to make note of the location of them when I disassembled. :) I'll keep trying.

[kbags948]

You're probably right. I had to weld my shifter on, so replacing the chain poses a problem for me now. I can pull the CDI cover and get down to the sprocket and check the chain slack with a small screw driver don't you think? If there is no excess slack does that mean the chain may still be within tolerance? I appreciate the comments.

[ezmoney1979]

I had to weld my shifter on, so replacing the chain poses a problem for me now.
You did what?

[kbags948]

Yeah I know. Probably not real wise, but it was either that or split the cases and replace the shift shaft all together. I figured if ever I had to dive into the bottom end I would just replace the shaft when I was in there, but it's already coming back to haunt me. :(

[barnett468]

Yeah I know. Probably not real wise, but it was either that or split the cases and replace the shift shaft all together. I figured if ever I had to dive into the bottom end I would just replace the shaft when I was in there, but it's already coming back to haunt me. :(Umm...you do not need to split the cases to remove the shift shaft. See page 63 paragraph #2 in the original manual below. Might take up to 5 minutes to load.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/atc90_73-78_atc110_79-81_servicemanual.pdf

The parts are no longer available new but can occasionally be found on Ehay.

3www member shortline10 might also be able to repair them.

[Tomcall]

I had a similar issue on a 74 atc70 I built with the big bore kit. I couldn't figure it out and brought it to an atc repair place. they fixed it up and said it was a timing issue. The only other thing I can imagine is if you are using old bad gas.

[WILL_S]

Did you replace the cam chain?How did the roller in the barrel and the tensioner roller look?
If one or more off these are worn the timing chain can slap around a little.

No need to worry if you get the nuts on the head in the wrong order.The oil still gets through to the head and you end up with a little weep around the nut if it's in the wrong place.

[kbags948]

Thanks for the info. barnett468! I'm guessing I should dive in and replace the cam chain then seeing as that's what most of the members here are saying. Do you think that will solve the ticking issue, or could it be a timing issue like Tomcall mentioned below.

[kbags948]

Hey WILL_S,

Can you elaborate on the parts you're speaking about? I inspected the cam chain roller (plastic) and the inner sleeve. All seemed fine. That's the only parts I dealt with besides the cam gear itself. I should probably inspect the tensioner itself you're saying?

Thanks!

[WILL_S]

Hey WILL_S,

Can you elaborate on the parts you're speaking about? I inspected the cam chain roller (plastic) and the inner sleeve. All seemed fine. That's the only parts I dealt with besides the cam gear itself. I should probably inspect the tensioner itself you're saying?

Thanks!

Parts 3 & 15
Old and loose timing chains make a bit of noise
Recently i put a thin head gasket on a motor to raise compression.The timing chain had done alot of work it wasn't overly noisy.I now have a ticking.I am not concerned about the ticking.I could just adjust or replace the chain

187054

[barnett468]

Thanks for the info. barnett468! I'm guessing I should dive in and replace the cam chain then seeing as that's what most of the members here are saying. Do you think that will solve the ticking issue, or could it be a timing issue like Tomcall mentioned below.
Hello kbags948;


Ok, well I do not think your ticking is caused by excessive ignition timing. This is mainly because it would be extremely rare for the bike to start easily AND have some much timing advance that it would cause detonation at IDLE.

That being said, it is a good suggestion to check it since it should be done as part of regular maintenance plus I’m guessing you have no idea what it is currently set at.

I clean off the F mark on the flywheel, put a line of white out on it, then use a timing lite in a dimly lit area to see it easily. If the F mark lites up in the correct location, your timing is fine, if not, set it properly.

The chain, rollers and tensioner are all available new from the site below. http://partzilla.com might also have them and the price will be cheaper.

If the tensioner roller looks heavily worn I would replace it.

TIMING CHAIN – I would but D. I. D., Wiesco or orig Honda only. There are chains for around 30% less however the chain is a critical part and if it breaks it will make you and your engine very, very, unhappy. It’s also best to replace the timing gears along with the chain, otherwise the chain will wear prematurely.

Tensioner p/n 14500-098-020, $52.00

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc110-1983-usa_model7167/tensioner-chain_14500096020/


Chain and tensioner parts fiche.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc110-1983-usa_model7167/partslist/E++05.html#results

[kbags948]

Parts 3 & 15
Old and loose timing chains make a bit of noise
Recently i put a thin head gasket on a motor to raise compression.The timing chain had done alot of work it wasn't overly noisy.I now have a ticking.I am not concerned about the ticking.I could just adjust or replace the chain

187054

Ok I see what you're referring to. I did inspect part 3, but never got down as far as part 15. I'm not too concerned about it either, but having somewhat fresh motor it's just kind of a bummer to hear. :(

[kbags948]

Hello kbags948;


Ok, well I do not think your ticking is caused by excessive ignition timing. This is mainly because it would be extremely rare for the bike to start easily AND have some much timing advance that it would cause detonation at IDLE.

That being said, it is a good suggestion to check it since it should be done as part of regular maintenance plus I’m guessing you have no idea what it is currently set at.

I clean off the F mark on the flywheel, put a line of white out on it, then use a timing lite in a dimly lit area to see it easily. If the F mark lites up in the correct location, your timing is fine, if not, set it properly.

The chain, rollers and tensioner are all available new from the site below. http://partzilla.com might also have them and the price will be cheaper.

If the tensioner roller looks heavily worn I would replace it.

TIMING CHAIN – I would but D. I. D., Wiesco or orig Honda only. There are chains for around 30% less however the chain is a critical part and if it breaks it will make you and your engine very, very, unhappy. It’s also best to replace the timing gears along with the chain, otherwise the chain will wear prematurely.

Tensioner p/n 14500-098-020, $52.00

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc110-1983-usa_model7167/tensioner-chain_14500096020/


Chain and tensioner parts fiche.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc110-1983-usa_model7167/partslist/E++05.html#results

Ok. Thanks a bunch. I'll get right on checking the timing using your method above. If my timing is off slightly would that make it run rough at wide open? By rough I mean miss and pop. Also, could a stretched (worn out) cam chain cause the timing to be off even when the base timing ("O" on gear and "V" in head) are spot on?

[tri again]

Ok. Thanks a bunch. I'll get right on checking the timing using your method above. If my timing is off slightly would that make it run rough at wide open? By rough I mean miss and pop. Also, could a stretched (worn out) cam chain cause the timing to be off even when the base timing ("O" on gear and "V" in head) are spot on?

Pls forgive if this has been addressed..wrong glasses but:
I've had trouble with the spark advance plate on the older 90/110 models.
Typically under the cover that says "cdi".or points cover on the head.

round plate is supposed to rotate with 2 pen type spring that can break.
and rotates a little to advance the spark and doesn't always return.
Usually full of red rustdust.
Just a thought if you're going through all aaspectc of your timing.

[kbags948]

Hello guys,

I'm back after some time off from riding and wrenching on my 110. Last winter I spend a considerable amount of time going through each of the suggested fixes/checks mentioned in this thread. I went through the timing assembly top to bottom and replaced the chain, sprocket, guide rollers, push rod end cap, springs, and chain tensioner assembly. Before that I lapped in a new intake valve and replaced the springs. I also replaced the clutch fibers and springs. A top end and all new gaskets. It starts with one or two pulls nearly every time. I installed (although I didn't want to) a new "knock off" carb because my genuine Keihin was in rough shape. It sometimes jumps around at idle, but for the most part it does the job. After all is said and done, I still have that god awful ticking sound. With everything that I've done and checked and re-checked, I can't pinpoint what it could be. Anyone have any ideas?

[danbur55]

not familiar with the 110 setup but out of curiosity does the tick go away as you increase RPM or does it continue throughout entire throttle range? wonder if it could be thrust wear at crank or maybe cam others could most likely share info on this possibility better than me

[shortline10]

Post up a video of it running . A tick is usually top end related and a knock is most likely the crank .



Hello guys,

I'm back after some time off from riding and wrenching on my 110. Last winter I spend a considerable amount of time going through each of the suggested fixes/checks mentioned in this thread. I went through the timing assembly top to bottom and replaced the chain, sprocket, guide rollers, push rod end cap, springs, and chain tensioner assembly. Before that I lapped in a new intake valve and replaced the springs. I also replaced the clutch fibers and springs. A top end and all new gaskets. It starts with one or two pulls nearly every time. I installed (although I didn't want to) a new "knock off" carb because my genuine Keihin was in rough shape. It sometimes jumps around at idle, but for the most part it does the job. After all is said and done, I still have that god awful ticking sound. With everything that I've done and checked and re-checked, I can't pinpoint what it could be. Anyone have any ideas?

[kbags948]

I believe the noise is most prominent at idle. Once you're riding and running through the gear box it sounds ok. I'll try and post a video. Can I do so directly to this thread?

[kbags948]

http://youtu.be/rA5-4Y_y6HY

[DohcBikes]

What are you setting the valves at? Dont know the spec for a 110 but it sounds like the clearance on your exhaust valve is pretty loose.

Did you check the tolerance on the rocker shaft?

I've built a few engines that ran excellent and still do to this day, but just ticked loudly and there was nothing really wrong with them.

What kind of oil are you running?

[kbags948]

The Clymer manual that I have says to set the valves between .005 - .007. I just checked them the other day and they were still within tolerance. Maybe a little closer to .007 but I didn't think that would be an issue. Do you think I should tighten them a little bit based on what you heard? I didn't check the tolerance on the rocker shaft. Do you recommend I do that? I've been running Valvoline 20W 50.

[danbur55]

When seting valve lash was that .005-.007 mm or thousandths used?? Guess why i thought of that

[kbags948]

.005 - .007 in (thousandths)

[danbur55]

Pretty sure you need to use mm on these quite a bit of difference from metric and standard

[kbags948]

I've never heard that. The manual recommends the spec in both mm and in, but it's still the same clearance. I have standard (in) feeler gauges so that's what I used. My 2009 Honda CRF450 gives the spec in inches also.

[danbur55]

you are so right had my numbers mixed up (should have looked it up first) it sucks getting old memory is not what it used to be lol my apologies