Bored out 350x

[350xorbust]

Does anyone know what I can safely bore the stock jug out to? Right now Im at 1mm over which I think equates to 40thou over. I am still lookin for the right bigbore kit, but im just covering my bases.
Also what octane gas am I looking at for a 12:1 piston?

[oscarmayer]

most Honda ATCs were able to go 2.5mm over before you had to "sleeve it" (4strokes meaning)

[DohcBikes]

As far as 350x specific pistons, I believe 82mm, or 1mm overbore is the last or 4th oversize size available. Larger than that, you would have to look at pistons from other models, or a custom piston, if you want to risk thin walls on the stock sleeve.

[barnett468]

…what octane gas am I looking at for a 12:1 piston?
This also depends upon the specific cam you are running. Typically, the longer the advertised duration is on a cam, the lower your dynamic compression and cylinder cranking pressure will be will be for a given engine.

93 octane is insufficient in my experience. 112 octane is more than sufficient to be safe, however, I might try E85 corn gas first since it’s readily available and much less expensive than race fuels. If you use race fuel you can mix it with regular gas even though some race fuel mfg’s suggest not to do this. 50% 93 octane and 50% 112 might get you by and will save you some money over using straight 112.

If you need, or simply desire to run race fuel, some places to get it are shown in the link below.

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-racing-dealers.html

[MojaveRider]

This also depends upon the specific cam you are running. Typically, the longer the advertised duration is on a cam, the lower your dynamic compression and cylinder cranking pressure will be will be for a given engine.

93 octane is insufficient in my experience. 112 octane is more than sufficient to be safe, however, I might try E85 corn gas first since it’s readily available and much less expensive than race fuels. If you use race fuel you can mix it with regular gas even though some race fuel mfg’s suggest not to do this. 50% 93 octane and 50% 112 might get you by and will save you some money over using straight 112.

If you need, or simply desire to run race fuel, some places to get it are shown in the link below.

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-racing-dealers.html

You probably know, but anyone who doesn't: E85 required 30-40% more fuel than gasoline, so your jetting has to be adjusted. In FSAE we changed a WR250F to E85 and ended up at like 36% more fuel than stock.

[barnett468]

You probably know, but anyone who doesn't: E85 required 30-40% more fuel than gasoline, so your jetting has to be adjusted. In FSAE we changed a WR250F to E85 and ended up at like 36% more fuel than stock.Yes, great point and thanks for mentioning it, I forgot. Anytime one changes from anything more that straight 87 to 93 non corn gas they should check their jetting and rejet as necessary. Failure to do so can result in engine damage such as piston seizures or burned piston tops etc.. The same thing goes when one changes form one brand of two stroke oil to another and/or simply changes oil/fuel mix ratios.

[350xorbust]

I guess I should of been more specific...my bad. I live way up north, and 92 (on a good day) is all I have access to. So I guess 12:1 is a NO-GO then huh? Race gas of any kind is a special shipping thing and is outrageously expensive. A couple tanks of that stuff up here, and Iv paid for a 10:1 piston. Its just thats what came in the bike, so I thought Id save some $ and run it...NOT!!! And if 82mm is pretty standard for the biggest I can go, then I guess the search continues for a big bore. So far Iv tried Redline powersports, Powroll, and Lukes racing for days now, and I cant get anyone to answer the damn phone...frustrating!!

[DohcBikes]

There is another company that offers big bore kits for the 350x, I think they may have been a member here......can't seem to remember his name for the life of me.

Maybe another member that has the information is willing to help out?.......

[barnett468]

I guess I should of been more specific...my bad. I live way up north, and 92 (on a good day) is all I have access to. So I guess 12:1 is a NO-GO then huh? Race gas of any kind is a special shipping thing and is outrageously expensive. A couple tanks of that stuff up here, and Iv paid for a 10:1 piston. Its just thats what came in the bike, so I thought Id save some $ and run it...NOT!!! And if 82mm is pretty standard for the biggest I can go, then I guess the search continues for a big bore. So far Iv tried Redline powersports, Powroll, and Lukes racing for days now, and I cant get anyone to answer the damn phone...frustrating!!


OK, I'm still a little lost.

Is the bike currently running?

Have you run it on 93 octane?

Can you hear it ping upon acceleration?

What size is your current bore?

Do you need an 82 mm piston?

If you want a big bore kit and no one posts info to one, I would send a pm to ATC-Eric and shortline10. They may be able to help.

[6speedthumper]

FST (Mickey Dunlap) offers a big bore kit for the X, he is a member here. You can look up the kit on his website. IF, and that's a damn big IF, you can get Powroll on the phone they offer a 5mm (45cc) big bore kit. I bought one from them in September. Hope to be installed it this coming week. Anyway, getting a big bore kit from either Powroll or FST, they can cut the pistons for a specific compression ratio of your liking.

There had been a 2mm over bore NOS White Bros. piston (made by Aeris) a month ago on ebay. Don't know if it is still on there. As for compression ratios VS fuel octane. A lot of that comes down to came profile, and how well tuned your carb is. I'm running 11:1 on my Warrior (I know not a 350x but still air cooled 4stroke) with a .450 lift 272* duration Megacycle (from memory), and a 39mm FCR plus a ported head and over sized valves. All that on 93 pump.

Now, if you decide to go with the standard 82mm "big bore" from Wiseco, and you want a certain compression ratio; you can do one of two things. One, you get their 10.25:1 piston and run a thinner base gasket. Or two, you get their 12:1 and run a thicker base gasket. both methods work (will have to check deck height and valve interference). You will alter the cam timing by using either of these two methods, so, degreeing in the cam and using an adjustable cam gear may become necessary. It's pretty much all in what you want to do.

There is a third method I just remembered, and that is to send a 12:1 to a competent engine builder/machinest (like Dunlap) and have them cut down your piston to the compression ratio you desire. Which saves a lot of hassle and probably costs about the same as custom gaskets and an adjustable cam sprocket. But, with zero hassle during install.

[Liquid-Darkness]

Yeah I remember my .040 over 12:1 honda 350x.. No cam just a pipe... jetting and a lightened flywheel.. 13/40 gearing.. thing scooted even with my heavy self on it..

I broke it in with 110 race fuel... then ran 4 gallons of race fuel to 1 gallon of 91 premium pump gas... Ran like a dream...

[350xorbust]

Ok, no the bike isnt running right now. The guy before before me had it bored to 82 mm, and it smoked bad.the bore is not great kuz the engine sat with water in it for a year. I had it honed, but didnt get the results I had hoped for. He installed a 12:1 wiseco after the bore job. I have contacted atc-eric, and couldnt get a date that he might be creating his 400cc big bore kits,.
Update...Contacted Fourstroke tech, and they have a custom built 445cc 92mm sleeve and piston kit for $395. That plus a new cam, rockers , valve job and new gaskets to match, Im lookin at just shy of $1000.00.Wont be able to do it all at once, so Im gunna do half now and half in a few months.

[barnett468]

OK


I would call the site below and see what they say. they have been making sleeves and kits for a hundred years, lol. They are one place where some dealers get their kits from.

http://www.lasleeve.cc/index.cfm?make=Honda&make_ID=1



You can also contact je pistons, ross and egge machinre and possibly get a custon one made for maybe. $160.00.

http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Powersports/ATV-UTV.aspx

http://www.rosspistons.com/

http://www.egge.com/

[DohcBikes]

And hey 350x it might be a good idea to pose your trx400ex jug question here since this thread has gotten some attention.... I do not know enough to comment other than the ex has a bigger bore AND a slightly longer stroke.

[oscarmayer]

I have ran many 12:1 engines on 93 octane pump gas. it's all in the tuning of the engine and very much depends on "properly" prepping your piston prior to install. (yes there is such a thing and anyone who has build a performance motor should know how to do it.)

[350xorbust]

I tried LA sleeve, and they have neither the sleeve nor the pistons in stock...wont have them for up to 6 weeks, and there prices are through the roof...$500 just for the jug sleeve, and over $200 for the piston...and the gaskets are extra...where fourstroke tech has them included.

The question is, will a bigbore kit for a 400x (cant remember off the top of my head how big) bolt onto and work on my 350x bottom end? My first instinct is no as the 400 has single exhaust.

[350xorbust]

I have ran many 12:1 engines on 93 octane pump gas. it's all in the tuning of the engine and very much depends on "properly" prepping your piston prior to install. (yes there is such a thing and anyone who has build a performance motor should know how to do it.)

The biggest problem I see with your plan there, is Im no pro engine builder, so I have no idea what u mean by "Prepping" a piston...so please ...tell us!!

[6speedthumper]

The 400ex/x has dual exhaust ports. I've never had a 400 apart, but, I doubt it would work. First; the wrist pin sizes are probably different. Second; the cylinder is most likely taller to accommodate the longer stroke of the 400. Which isn't the worst thing, because you can have it machined down to achieve the proper deck height. If it is shorter, then you need to call up Cometic and have a custom base spacer made to raise the cylinder up. Other things come into play as well. Such as; timing chain passageway, timing chain guides, piston skirt to crank web clearance, etc...

[6speedthumper]

Just remembered, a 400ex/x engine can fit in the 350x chassis. There was a member here that did this. That will give you a newer engine, easier aftermarket support, and reverse if it's an '05 and newer.

[DohcBikes]

The biggest problem I see with your plan there, is Im no pro engine builder, so I have no idea what u mean by "Prepping" a piston...so please ...tell us!!


I always think its funny when people get worked up over the relationship between compression ratio and octane rating.

To start with, compression ratio isn't the final word on octane. I can tell you from personal experience that an 04 ZX10 with a 12.9:1 compression ratio will run on 87 octane all day and night at sea level. Many owners of these models will tell you that 91 octane is a waste of their money.

What fuel an engine will run on before the point of detonation depends on MUCH more than compression ratio. The thing is, most of the 30 year old technology isn't nearly as efficient as the new stuff. Even considering that, there can be one guy running 93 on a 12:1 engine without any issues, whereas another guy with the same exact engine experiences issues running anything less than race fuel. Elevation and ambient tempurature is also a factor.

Prepping a piston lessens the likely hood of hot spots and promotes evenly distributed fuel molecules for more efficiency and less tendency to detonate when running race engines at peak levels. Oscar explains below.;)

The octane you should run with a 12:1 350x is.....whatever makes it happy. If you are running 93 and it pings or won't run, try more octane lol. Don't forget about octane booster.

Octane rating is a measure of the burnability of fuel. More octane, LESS volitile, less octane MORE volitile, causing it to to preignite and/or detonate end gasses at a lower pressure and tempurature. Experienced engine builders should tell you this....if you are in an area where race gas is not available, its NOT a good idea to build an engine to the very threshold of pump gas requirements, because if you are wrong you are out of luck. A 12:1 in a 350x will likely be right at the threshold.

[barnett468]

The question is, will a bigbore kit for a 400x (cant remember off the top of my head how big) bolt onto and work on my 350x bottom end? My first instinct is no as the 400 has single exhaust.I suggest sending a pm to shortline10 for this question or possibly post a new thread posing that specific question. More people will see it which increases the possibility of getting a definitive answer.




Update...Contacted Fourstroke tech, and they have a custom built 445cc 92mm sleeve and piston kit for $395.Well that price makes more sense. I have no idea who fourstroketech is so I typed their name into google search out of curiosity and found several negative comments about them without looking for any, so obviously, if you buy from them, it might be best to contact them and ask them some questions before making a final decision. Of course there are two sides to every story but no shop/supplier is going to tell you they suck either so…




I tried LA sleeve, and they have neither the sleeve nor the pistons in stock...wont have them for up to 6 weeks, and there prices are through the roof...$500 just for the jug sleeve, and over $200 for the piston...and the gaskets are extra...where fourstroke tech has them included.That sleeve price is obviously ridiculous, are they smokin somethin? Plus they don’t have it? They’re the ones that make them, or at least they use to. The bare core might be $30.00 - $60.00, it’s basically just a round piece of iron or chromoly steel. A pre-machined iron sleeve for a V8 engine is only around $50.00 as you likely know.

If you have a sleeves dimension, you could call the place below and ask them how much a custom sleeve would be. I know you know who Milodon is. Then call the big bore kit suppliers and buy a piston from them or find out what brand piston it is and buy it direct from the mfg. if possible if it is made in the US. Machining the sleeve isn’t rocket science obviously. Virtually any high school machine shop could easily cut one to size and might do it as a project for around a $20.00 donation to the class supply fund.

http://www.mellingcylindersleeves.com/Portals/8/pdf_catalog/custom-sleeve-form.pdf



COMPRESSION - As far as the compression goes, as DohcBikes implied. It is better to go less than max if you have Imo, max being around 11:1, but again as I mentioned earlier and you may also know, it partially depends a bit upon on the intake valve closing time of the cam which can be closeky estimated by the advertised duration. The compression figures that determine the potential for detonation on a particular set up are called dynamic compression and cylinder cranking pressure. The static/uncorrected compression ratio is commonly used as an approximation.

The other reason for not building to the limit if one wants to run pump gas is because the actual octane levels in pump gas are inconsistent and are occasionally, around 3 octane points less than advertised. Engine Masters Challenge winner Joe Sherman tested one brand [i think Phillips] and found it to be around 10 points less than advertised, lol.



OCTANE BOOSTERS – They all suck, and the best raises octane by only around 1.2 octane numbers. Two of the best octane boosters are Toluene and Xylene. Toluene is present in all non “corn gas” pump gas. One major fuel mfg uses 25% toluene in their 104 octane race gas.

These products vary widely in price and can typically be found at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware or other hardware stores and also at home paint supply stores like Sherwim Williams.

Running more than 30% is not recommended on street engines, and amounts greater than that are typically reserved for turbo cars.

Part of the following is shamelessly copied from the internet.

Toluene or Xylene mixtures with 92 Octane pump gas.

10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane



MAKE YOUR OWN OCTANE BOOST

How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toulene for octane boost
10 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
1 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)



IGNITION TIMING – Also as you probably know, just like your 572 Chev or other automotive engines, reducing ignition timing on any engine will also reduce the potential for detonation. Unfortunately many of the bikes have timing systems that are not adjustable. Some can be modified slightly to get a little adjustment out of them.

[jays375]

Give TC Racing a call and talk to Tom Carlson.Or call Sparks and talk to Curtis.Both have built some monster 350x engines.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Well that price makes more sense. I have no idea who fourstroketech is so I typed their name into google search out of curiosity and found several negative comments about them without looking for any, so obviously, if you buy from them, it might be best to contact them and ask them some questions before making a final decision. Of course there are two sides to every story but no shop/supplier is going to tell you they suck either so…



350Xorbust I talked to you on the phone the other day,but I didn't know about this thread while I was on here. I left this site because of some of the members.Now some members want to talk bad about me,but others contacted me when they do so I end up having to come back on here. This guy is telling you a lie,he knows me and my company,you couldn't do a search on FST with out the name Mickey Dunlap coming up. Other the him lying on me I'm not going to get into it anymore then that,just beware of members motives on here.

[350xorbust]

Well that price makes more sense. I have no idea who fourstroketech is so I typed their name into google search out of curiosity and found several negative comments about them without looking for any, so obviously, if you buy from them, it might be best to contact them and ask them some questions before making a final decision. Of course there are two sides to every story but no shop/supplier is going to tell you they suck either so…



350Xorbust I talked to you on the phone the other day,but I didn't know about this thread while I was on here. I left this site because of some of the members.Now some members want to talk bad about me,but others contacted me when they do so I end up having to come back on here. This guy is telling you a lie,he knows me and my company,you couldn't do a search on FST with out the name Mickey Dunlap coming up. Other the him lying on me I'm not going to get into it anymore then that,just beware of members motives on here.


You know what Mickey...let em lie, I dont care. There is always two sides to every story, and from what Iv learned over the years is that if you are still in buisness in this day and age, you must be doin somthing right. You have what I need for the right price...cant beat that. Glad your on here though, Im sure I will need to bend your ear more than once...lol

[oscarmayer]

prepping pistons

take a die grinder or drill with a flapper sand roll and take off all sharp edges around the valve depressions and the piston edge and any sharp edges at all. when done, take some sand paper (600-800 grip) and sand the top of the piston to where there is no shiny spots on it meaning the factory machining stuff is now smoothed out. What this does is removes any sharp spots and evens the surface so fuel will not stick to a specific part of the piston and cause detonation. if you don't have a sanding roll, you can use a tiny file and some sand paper as well and do it by hand, just takes a little longer.

Hope that helps.

good luck. btw, if you do decide to go with a big bore setup ask the machine shop to prep the piston for you. most will do it for like $20 or something. it will save you from doing it yourself later.

[Mickey Dunlap]

You know what Mickey...let em lie, I dont care. There is always two sides to every story, and from what Iv learned over the years is that if you are still in buisness in this day and age, you must be doin somthing right. You have what I need for the right price...cant beat that. Glad your on here though, Im sure I will need to bend your ear more than once...lol

Thanks,but if you need to talk please call or E-mail me here. http://www.fourstroketech.net/

[oscarmayer]

mickey, do not ever leave again or I will hunt you down like a dog! :)

[Mickey Dunlap]

mickey, do not ever leave again or I will hunt you down like a dog! :)

I only come on here to stop the lies. I thought it would work if I just deleted my post,but this goes to show you that **** will keep coming on here no matter what talking BS.

It's not hard to find me,everyone knows where I'm at.

[oscarmayer]

it's ok mickey, you do not have to explain, 1 person cannot ruin you or your rep with us man. Do not sweat it. remember, there is now a little black triangle with a ! in the center under each poster's name. that is for reporting their posts. if he comes back and talks stuff, then click it and type he is lying and need it fixed. admins will be all over him like white on rice.

we know you Mickey, don't worry about it.

[barnett468]

Hello 350xorbust;


I saw Mickey's post regarding my comments and felt it important to clarify them and point out his inaccuracies since I am being called a liar and personally attacked without just cause and for simply posting information I thought might be helpful to you.




This guy is telling you a lie,Wow, that’s bizarre, no lies here, look up the complaints by doing your own search.




he knows meI have never met him but certainly know of him and of some of his postings on this site, I never said I didn’t.




and my company,Nope, that is incorrect. I never have heard of them or read about them that I remember. If he has ever mentioned it on here, I either didn’t see it or simply don’t remember it because it is simply something I have no need for so there was no reason for me to take note of it.




you couldn't do a search on FST with out the name Mickey Dunlap coming up.I have no idea what FST is and therefore I did not type FST into the search box. Below are the top links that came up when I did my search. Mickey’s name obviously does not appear anywhere as he claims it will however some complaints with the term fourstroketech sure do.


• Four Stroke Tech
www.fourstroketech.net/
‎
Please be patient with us as we continue to perfect fourstroketech.net. This site is
currently under RECONSTRUCTION. Please be patient with us as we continue ...
• Buyers from four stroke tech, beware. POOR customer service. Look ...
www.teryxhq.com/.../2695-buyers-four-stroke-tech-beware-poor-customer-service-look-elsewhere.html
‎
I have never been more dissapointed in a company and you can be sure I will
never do business and will pass along the word to EVERYONE I ...
• Quality issues with Four Stroke Tech - ATVConnection.com ATV ...
forums.atvconnection.com/.../292515-quality-issues-four-stroke-tech.html
‎
This will probably make me a lot of enemies, but I feel I have to vent a little after
forking over a lot of money for my 446 stroker kit in my 95.




Other the him lying on meWell, since I am NOT the one who made complaints against fourstroketech on the internet, I have no idea why he would say such a thing, it seems bizarre to me.




beware of members motives on here.My motive is try and help you 350xorbust, if I can. If that includes info I have seen or herd that might be credible and be relevant to you I will mention it so you can simply do your own research and come to a conclusion/decision that is beat for you.

What he is saying is obviously illogical imo. If I knew it was Mickeys business and wanted to throw him under the buss, I would have searched more and posted the actual complaints which I obviously did not, because I an mot that type of person.

I also would not have posted comments which clearly give fourstroketech the benefit of the doubt, it defies even the simplest logic imo:


Well that price makes more sense.

…if you buy from them, it might be best to contact them and ask them some questions before making a final decision.

Of course there are two sides to every story…

Now that I know this is Mickey’s business, I might not have made any mention of it simply to avoid any drama, however, that being said, my comments still stand. Check it out, if you feel comfortable then buy it from him. Contrary to his belief I could not care less who anyone buys something from unless I know for a fact that the product itself is junk.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Mike you knew my company,you can't look at anything on the net and not know,that is a lie! But don't worry about it,I told you not to mess with me or I would tell the rest of what I know about you and what happen with you and Kawasaki. Keep it up and see what comes next.

I have been in business 27 years,you bet there are going to be things said on the net,make sure you read them well. One thing you learn for sure is you can't please everyone,just ask the mods about that! LOL

[Buck Snort]

what a f....ckin sh.....t show!

[oscarmayer]

burnet this needed to go to PMs not being aired out in the open. this has been reported.

[barnett468]

Wow, all I can say is wow and how sad for this thread!



burnet this needed to go to PMs not being aired out in the open. this has been reported.Good, and while you’re at it, don’t forget to report yourself for making posts unrelated to the op’s topic which also could have gone in a pm. Then after that, report Mickeys post below which contains language used in a context that seems perfectly suited to what a moderator has said is “A family friendly site.”.


it's ok mickey, you do not have to explain, 1 person cannot ruin you or your rep with us man. Do not sweat it. remember, there is now a little black triangle with a ! in the center under each poster's name. that is for reporting their posts. if he comes back and talks stuff, then click it and type he is lying and need it fixed. admins will be all over him like white on rice.
we know you Mickey, don't worry about it.


...this goes to show you that ****** will keep coming on here no matter what talking BS.



I have no desire to bash Mickey, he has no meaning in my life, however, now that he is once again bashing me on a public site for no reasonable reason, I once again think it’s important to set the story straight and I apologize for the off topic post but I did not initiate it.

Unfortunately, for the sake of the many others that are tired of these unnecessary childish bash fests, I fear that he and/or others will continue it. Just because adults ride a 3 wheeler, I see no reason for them to act like children.

Contrary to a couple peoples misperception, I have NEVER made unwarranted, unprovoked comments to ANYONE here.

He made a thread dedicated to the sole purpose of bashing me. See the link below.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163421-A-little-info-on-Barnett468-aka-Mike-Lilivig?highlight=mickey+dunlap

Out of 5 pages and 63 posts, I did not waste my time responding. I simply laughed at the childish posts and as Billy and SEVERAL others said on that thread, this is not a good reflection on the members of the site that contribute to this sort of thing.

The following was posted on Mickeys “Bash Barnett” thread.

Guys, easy up here a bit. Mr. barnett strikes me as the odd type a bit, for sure, and I don't see any serious name calling or denigrating stuff here in this thread technically, but does it make a good impression for other people reading it?

People can judge for themselves what type of a mature person would obsess about someone so much whom they don’t even know, and be the type of person that would make a thread dedicated to that person which sole purpose is simply to berate another human being on a site that can be viewed by anyone worldwide.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163421-A-little-info-on-Barnett468-aka-Mike-Lilivig?highlight=mickey+dunlap



The moderators also just shut down two different threads that Mickey posted on which he was the focus of due to people bashing each other and here he is bashing someone AGAIN. See one of them in the link below.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/164716-The-80-s-called?highlight=mickey+dunlap



The following pertains to Mickey..

…he also appeared to kindle his own dissatisfactions and even fed them at times. When he said he would show up at a race to do a meet and greet for Regina to help her garner some participants then renigged because of one guy razzing his feathers , IMO that really probably made people question his convictions.

…the way he left was poor. Bkm likened it to taking the ball and going home.

Barnett has put up with way more...he is still here.



Below is a quote Mickey used in several of his posts when addressing me, and after further review, I have to agree.

"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ,it's a duck.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Mike you are a little slow at learning not to mess with me. You seem to think your long post makes you look like you know something about everything,but it's more like"if you can't dazzle them with brilliance ,baffle them with BS".

As far as my post on you,I was told to post it by the mods. They gave me the OK to do it because you didn't take their warnings so they wanted you knocked down,then they gave you a time out because you still didn't learn from it. Get a clue ,you are about to get a whoopin again!

[El Camexican]

Wow


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla


Fact: Bla (EDITE) Bla, bla, bla Fact

[350xorbust]

Holey CRAP guys...all i wanted to know was how far I could bore my cyl...give IT a REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mickey, I will be in touch!!!

[tapper190]

Ok, no the bike isnt running right now. The guy before before me had it bored to 82 mm, and it smoked bad.the bore is not great kuz the engine sat with water in it for a year. I had it honed, but didnt get the results I had hoped for. He installed a 12:1 wiseco after the bore job. I have contacted atc-eric, and couldnt get a date that he might be creating his 400cc big bore kits,.
Update...Contacted Fourstroke tech, and they have a custom built 445cc 92mm sleeve and piston kit for $395. That plus a new cam, rockers , valve job and new gaskets to match, Im lookin at just shy of $1000.00.Wont be able to do it all at once, so Im gunna do half now and half in a few months.

Hi, before I would rebuild this motor, I would be splitting the cases to see how far the water got. Not sure if this was mention, skimmed over the other posts with not much interest...

[Billy Golightly]

If you guys dont lay off the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro drama, I'm going to perma ban all your asses for having EIGHT reported posts in my email inbox on a sunday morning.


seriously.

Use the ignore list: http://www.3wheelerworld.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist


Don't feed the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro stirrers. Its a REAL SIMPLE equation.

[350xorbust]

I appologise. I dont get it. Why is it, every time I ask a simple question, it turns into a s**t storm. Sure isnt very appealing for a new member.Makes a guy wonder if he should remain a member!!!
I didnt join to be involved in drama...got enough at home...lol

[350xorbust]

Hi, before I would rebuild this motor, I would be splitting the cases to see how far the water got. Not sure if this was mention, skimmed over the other posts with not much interest...

Hey thats a good point, however the water was restricted to a small amount around the rings, and the rockers have a bit of surface rust on the top sides of them.(The engine was in a covered shed with the rocker covers off, so it was more a moisture issue, rather then a rain inside issue).The piston cleaned up nice, nice enough that I am concidering selling it, and the jug was honed but there was deep pitting where the rust was. Thats ok though kuz what ever big bore kit I go with, the sleeve will more than likelly be replaced.
Thanx for the heads up though.

[jays375]

So you aren't planing on splitting the motor?Not a good idea if you are hopping up the top end of almost 30 year engine.It will not last long.You need to have the crank re done also.It is basically a all or nothing type deal.At least for what you have planned.

[6speedthumper]

Split the cases, dude. Mine was in a fire way back when, and sat outside for god knows how many years. Water just about everywhere. Cylinder was trashed, piston was stuck in it. Crank webs and balance shaft had surface rust on the. The rod and bearing were really nice, and I don't think the bike had very many ours on it before it was in the fire. Even still, I had the crank rebuilt. Honestly it is cheap insurance when you consider the amount of money you are going to put out for a big bore kit. Also, I don't know about Mickey's kit, but, many big bore kits for these older bikes need the crank cases bored out anyway. Without doing that the new sleeve will either not fit into the cases, or they will fit but wont have the clearance needed for heat expansion.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

If you had moisture in the top end, you surely had moisture in the bottom end. You won't see actual rust on the aluminum crank cases, but I would bet your crank pin, crank bearings and anything else that is bare steel in the bottom end will have some rust.

If your bottom end pukes, you risk non-repairable damage to expensive, no longer made crank case halves. I know there are some out there who can do some amazing work fixing cases.. so I guess nothing is truly non-repairable... but you get what I am saying.

[350xorbust]

If you had moisture in the top end, you surely had moisture in the bottom end. You won't see actual rust on the aluminum crank cases, but I would bet your crank pin, crank bearings and anything else that is bare steel in the bottom end will have some rust.

If your bottom end pukes, you risk non-repairable damage to expensive, no longer made crank case halves. I know there are some out there who can do some amazing work fixing cases.. so I guess nothing is truly non-repairable... but you get what I am saying.
I get what you are saying, but have you parused ebay lately? Theres got to be 20 different bottom cases for sale right now.
I took the motor and had a tech take a close look at it, and either the motor has very low mileage , or it has been rebuilt once before, kuz the clearences are bang on. Thats why I didnt bother redoing it. And no, there is no moisture in the bottom end. Everything in there looks brand new...and it may very well be.
I appreatiate the concern bout the bottom end, but honestly Im going to preocced with out a lower rebuild...Im that confident its as good as new,

[350xorbust]

Split the cases, dude. Mine was in a fire way back when, and sat outside for god knows how many years. Water just about everywhere. Cylinder was trashed, piston was stuck in it. Crank webs and balance shaft had surface rust on the. The rod and bearing were really nice, and I don't think the bike had very many ours on it before it was in the fire. Even still, I had the crank rebuilt. Honestly it is cheap insurance when you consider the amount of money you are going to put out for a big bore kit. Also, I don't know about Mickey's kit, but, many big bore kits for these older bikes need the crank cases bored out anyway. Without doing that the new sleeve will either not fit into the cases, or they will fit but wont have the clearance needed for heat expansion.
Mickey assured me that I could clearence the bottom cases by my self with a die grinder. I have to take off about 20 thou to fit the 445cc sleeve. I hope so, kuz sending away the bottom end to a shop down south, will cost me an arm and a left second toe.

[wonderboy]

Help me understand the process: you have to use a die grinder to open up the bottom end for the larger cylinder to fit in? I'm only bringing that back up because I can't imagine that you'd NOT want to split the cases at that point just to clean all the chips out. How can you keep the metal out of the bottom end? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but I've never dealt with bigbores before.

[350xorbust]

Well , fill the hole with rags, but before that coat everything in there with grease to catch any straglers. Then before assembly, I will submerge the entire bottom end in a tank of clean parts cleaner and do the hokey pockey and shake it all about...lol. Last resort will be to split the crank cases, but Im sure I wont need to. And yes, a die grinder is all thats necessary, as there is nothing critical in that area, except the need to clear the sleeve, so machining isnt absolutely necessary.

[Mosh]

Well , fill the hole with rags, but before that coat everything in there with grease to catch any straglers. Then before assembly, I will submerge the entire bottom end in a tank of clean parts cleaner and do the hokey pockey and shake it all about...lol. Last resort will be to split the crank cases, but Im sure I wont need to. And yes, a die grinder is all thats necessary, as there is nothing critical in that area, except the need to clear the sleeve, so machining isnt absolutely necessary.
Now granted I have only been a professional mechanic since the days of points ignition and Rochester carbs but I can think of a 1000 reasons why I would advise against this procedure you are referring to. Not only are you assured debris getting in places you don't want it but flushing the bottom end with solvent will almost surely leave oil thinning substance behind that I am sure your cam and rockers are going to dislike.
But hey its your 1000 George Washington's to do with as you please.

[jays375]

Don't know what exactly you are trying to achieve.Why so big of a bore?You are asking a lot of a old motor.They lasted so long is because they were low compression.Maybe isn't so,just my theory.When going that big there is a lot more to do than just add a monster piston.Mosh is definately right.Flushing a engine out is a a shot in the dark.What you are attempting to do isn't going to last.Please explain your motives.Think you will get some good info in return.

[barnett468]

Hello 350xorbust;


Wow, you have “llevos mas grande” mi Amigo.

Not to say that I have not used this technique on other things myself before, but that was done out of necessity. Doing this is NOT a necessity in your case and all things considered not worth the risk in your particular case as others have already implied or clearly stated. If you get aluminum in the crank bearing or rod bearing [which you likely will], it might not come out no matter how long you "washing machine" it. I unfortunately speak from experience, lol.

Also, if you catch a rag with the bit spinning at 8000 rpm, it might get ugly. I speak from experience here also, lol. Wear gloves and goggles.

Add this to the FACT that your engine DID have some moisture/water in it and some here have suggested it be disassembled just for that reason alone, it seems that it would be to your benefit to do so.

Some people don't want to see you post a thread that says [HEY, WHY DOES MY NEW BIG BORE KIT SMOKE AND MY BEARINGS MAKE NOISE AND MY TRANSMISSION POPS OUT OF GEAR?].


Ok, no the bike isnt running right now. The guy before me bored to 82 mm, and it smoked bad.the bore is not great kuz the engine sat with water in it for a year.If you are not positive the bike shifts properly, this is another good reason to tear it down and inspect the gears.

Even if it does currently shift properly, this is no guarantee that it still will after riding it a week. There might be substantial wear on the gears if they are original. After all, it’s a 34 year old dirt bike.

In addition to this, the extra displacement will put added stress/load on the gears. This means tgat gears that are worn but otherwise still might run a long time on a std 350, might wear out very quickly with the bigger displacement, especially it the bike is flogged hard.




If you have not done much grinding on aluminum, I suggest you at least get a wax stick and dip the bit in it frequently. This will help keep the bit clean. Also use a bit designed for grinding aluminum. It will cut faster and clog less.

When used properly, a bit with a large od. will create fewer high and low spots than one with a smaller od. An air or speed control on the grinder is also helpful if it’s a high rpm one. I would try it at a “medium” speed first. A new bit at high speed can easily grind a groove as deep as the grand canyon in an instant if one is not careful. Again, I speak from experience here, lol.

If you put some oil on the rags it will help the aluminum to stick to them and will also help the aluminum to stick to the metal that gets oil on it. This will reduce the potential of getting metal in the lower end.

You can turn your engine upside down before removing the rags. This prevents metal from falling into the crank case when the rags are removed

[DohcBikes]

So, the reason for not taking the time to split the cases, is it a money issue or a time issue?

If it is a money issue, then you should NOT build a big bore engine in the first place. The stresses of the added power will exploit ANY weakness in your 30 year old engine, then your "budget big bore" money was wasted.

If it is a time issue, consider how long its going to take you to split the cases WHEN the bottom end shows its weaknesses. Maybe the big bore kit your money went toward will still be useable for the second rebuild;)

Yes many cases have been ground for big bores without being split, but as Barnett suggests, it should not be the first method considered.

I would never tell an inexperienced customer that it is OK to use this method, ever.

[350xorbust]

I am not splitting the bottom end apart because there is no need. The crank is within spec, so a rebuild on the crank gains me nothing . And if I go with the 425 kit from TC racing, I wont need to grind anything.
UPDATE: I called Lukes racing and they may be able to nickisil my stock 82mm bored cyl, and rebore back to 82. This hopefully will save me the $ I need to simply buy a 82mm wiseco, @ 10.5:1 comp. Then all I have to worry bout is a stock rebuild on the head, and call it a day. The only reason I wanted a big bore, was it was going to be cost effective, compared to having to buy another cyl, and get it bored etc.Well Now maybe not. Hope to hear back from Luke re. the pictures I sent him of my cyl, and hopefully his Canadian affiliate Millennium, will be able to fix up my cyl, and not have to deal with the states at all.

[DohcBikes]

That sounds like a good option for ya.

There's more to a bottom end than just the crank itself, and I'm not sure how one would know how their "crank is within spec" (or the bearings) without splitting the cases, I guess maybe I'm missing something here.

Oh well, best not think too deeply on this one. Good luck with the build.