*** HELP - 1984 Honda 200es - engine oil leak ***

[bkvette3]

Hello guys - my '84 200es all of a sudden developed a minor engine leak the other day. Driving in cold weather. Starts & runs perfect with no issues. Has never leaked before. This is driving me nuts. Wiped the oil off and went for a little ride and the oil was back. I can not trace where the oil is coming from. The oil is a slow drip that ends up around the left foot peg area. I am taking it to the local Honda dealership first thing Monday morning. I guess my question is - is there something I should be looking for in regards to the leak??? Bugging the hell out of me. Your comments and advise is appreciated. Thanks in advance. BK3

[tri again]

200es going to the dealer?
ugg.

Um, I hope it's the gear shifter seal, about 3 dollars and can be
put in from outside in a couple minutes.
I use 3m weather strip adhesive aka contact cement but they never squeeze back out.

For chasing oil leaks?
I blow a little bread flour on the engine.
Seems to make it easier to see the oil tracks.

Did you hit a rock or anything?
Side cover and other bolts tight? incl drainplug. Do NOT overtighten anything trying to fix a leak.

Hope it's a super ez fix.

[bkvette3]

Slowing easy driving here - never hit anything. Hoping it is something as simple as the gear shifter seal as you mentioned. Hey, that flour trick is a great idea. As I mentioned earlier - starts and runs great. I did check all bolts and like you advised DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. Thanks BK3

[kb0nly]

The dealer is gonna rape you good for that... A $10 job into a $300 job i bet....

Near the left foot peg on a 200ES i would almost bet on a shifter shaft seal. A few bucks and its easy to replace. Remove the shifter from the shaft, one bolt and a flat screwdriver to spread the end a bit, then a scratch awl or a pick and you can work the seal out, a deep well socket about the same size as the seal and will fit over the shifter shaft is all you need for installation. Clean the shifter shaft good, put grease on it and the inside lip of the seal. Also pack the back side of the seal in grease so the tension spring can't come out. Slide it over the shaft, use the socket and a rubber mallet and tap it in slow and easy, replace the shifter and your done...

You don't even wanna know how many of these i have done... LOL

[bkvette3]

Thanks guys for the heads up on the cost of the repair - I am aware how these stealerships operate (scarey).. I dropped Big Red off at the dealership early this morning. They couldn't look at it until next week. Just picked it up and decided to take a closer look at it myself. Cleaned up all the areas where I thought the leak is coming from - shift lever seal, oil drain plug, etc. Then drove around for awhile and took a look again. These areas really showed no traces of oil or a leak. Here is a question for the experts - is there anything behind the pull start recoil that might leak??? Before I pull the recoil off to inspect. Thanks in advance. BK3

[tri again]

so it seems like it's not leaking now?
or just a slow accumulation?
Still has oil in it right?
...any chance it was a little overfull?
I'm wondering if there may be a plugged vent, like crankcase vent tube somewhere?
Plugged vent might make it leak around the crank seal and others if you run it a little faster rpm than just putting around.
Increases crankcase pressure or something like that.

Behind the recoil is a crank seal probably.
can you click on :
service manual
?
All my 200es's went to a returning marine with an asparagus farm so it's been a while since I've seen one.
GREAT trikes. Will do anything you ask them to do except diagnose themselves.

Is this machine new to you?

[kb0nly]

Yep there is a seal on the basket that the recoil spins on the end of the crank, thats a very common leak point on the 200ES as well.

[bkvette3]

Cleaned around the shift lever seal and area really good and so far no leaks there. Will continue to monitor. Going to try and find the vent tubes and see if anything is coming out of them. Where and how many are there supposed to be on a 200es? I see 2 tubes that are hanging off the rear (by the chrome grab bar) Not sure were they lead to. When it warms up I will have to investigate more. Thanks.

[Chopsaw]

Cleaned around the shift lever seal and area really good and so far no leaks there. Will continue to monitor. Going to try and find the vent tubes and see if anything is coming out of them. Where and how many are there supposed to be on a 200es? I see 2 tubes that are hanging off the rear (by the chrome grab bar) Not sure were they lead to. When it warms up I will have to investigate more. Thanks.

If a vent tube is clogged it causes high crankcase pressure that can blow a seal or gasket . So not really lookin for a leak out of the vent tube .

[bkvette3]

Hello again - the weather finally warmed up for me to do some wrenching on old Big Red (1984 200es). Found out where the oil was leaking from. kbOnly called this one from the beginning. Removed the recoil assembly and voila - here is what I found. I am guessing a crankshaft seal (???). Is this easy to repair??? Has anyone any experience in doing this??? Advice/tips on repair. Thanks in advance. BK3


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1057_zps3108e7ac.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1057_zps3108e7ac.jpg.html)


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1063_zpsa9136fd6.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1063_zpsa9136fd6.jpg.html)

[tri again]

Great picture.
So I wonder why it stopped leaking for a while?
Maybe had to accumulate inside the pull starter?
Anyway, the seal is right where you'd imagine.
You DO have a service manual?

The only thing that freaks me out is the occasional 'reverse thread'.

I am never sure where they are, not clearly marked or mentioned and have been known to wake me in my sleep.
Yeah, I'd wait until you hear from someone who's actually done one or you are able to see the procedure clearly in the
service manual

Nice job.

[bkvette3]

Hello - no, I do not have access to a service manual - wish I did. I too, also wondered why the leak stopped for awhile. I drove Big Red briefly earlier in the week (colder temperatures outside) with no leaks. Just a very small amount of oil on my fingertips when I wiped the bottom of the recoil assembly. This morning with temperature @ -6C (21F) I decided to take off the recoil assembly to investigate. Cleaned the oil and dirt/sludge and removed dirt from the small vent hole at the bottom of crankcase (see above picture). Reinstalled the recoil and went for a short easy drive. Once up to temperature - leak increased. Temperature sensitive. The recoil cover gasket also was damaged now from removal of assembly. Parked it back in the garage. Will pick up a new crankcase seal and recoil cover gasket tomorrow @ the dealership. Hopefully, someone will chime in on the repair. Thanks, guys. BK3

[bkvette3]

Well - got tired of spending quality time with the wife watching TV and decided to head out to the garage and spend some time with the one I really love. LOL - just kidding. Anyways, at the point of removing the seal - it was in very bad shape. Rubber lip chewed up. Just need to find a seal puller to remove old seal and then install the new one. Also going to replace the little rubber o-ring on the bolt that holds the recoil starter pulley on to the crankshaft while I have it apart. Job was actually very easy. Had a little help from you tube. Oil leak should be history. Will test it out tomorrow - day off from work. Regards. BK3

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1064_zps72303d2a.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1064_zps72303d2a.jpg.html)


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1065_zps8e687664.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1065_zps8e687664.jpg.html)


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1066_zps4e3a5e7a.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1066_zps4e3a5e7a.jpg.html)

[tri again]

so? normal thread?

So Sorry my friend.
When I type :
service manual

it should hilight blue as a clickable link, so yeah, click on:
service manual
and you can either view it or download free

No real reason for a seal plucker, it's just a bent hook sort of thing, or look at
a real one and decide what else you can use instead.
I usually glue seals back in with a touch of contact cement, esPecially if they are engine rear main seals betweeen the engine and transmission of something heavy.
Probably don't need any for this.
but DO grease the seal a little so it doesn't roll and pop the spring out.
Most seals have a spring around the lip to keep 'em tight.

Nice work BTW

[kb0nly]

Sorry i got so busy and didnt get back sooner!

Very common leak on the 200ES, there is a weep hole at the bottom of the recoil that lets any water that gets in at the rope drain out, also oil when that seal goes!

Tri - Normal thread, not left hand thankfully.

BK - Definitely make sure you replace that o-ring on the bolt as well. It will likely be hardened with age. It won't leak nearly as much as the oil seal but the head of the bolt will always be wet with oil and then you know the o-ring is bad.

Definitely replace the recoil gasket, i get them to work on all the time with that gasket gone and the inside of the recoil is so rusty from water getting in there. Yes some gets in through the recoil rope hole if you don't have the correct pull start handle on it, but rain will just seep in around the top without that gasket.

I see you mentioned you don't have the manual, its available on my website, link is below in my signature. Just make sure you torque that bolt correctly and you should be good to go!

[bkvette3]

Parts (oil seal, o-ring & recoil cover gasket) on order @ the dealership. Borrowed a seal puller and the seal came out easily with no damage to the case. :) Proper tools are everything. Thanks again guys for the help and suggestions - much appreciated.

kbOnly - thanks for the link to the shop manual - again, it was a big help and now I know what to torque the bolt to (29 - 36 ft. lbs.) when reassembling. The manual will come in handy in the future - awesome. Thanks again.

[kb0nly]

No problem glad i could help, i can't take all the credit for the manuals a lot of guys did the work of getting them found, i just got them all put in one spot so they are easy to find. LOL

What did the dealer have for a price on them? Last i checked a dealer for that seal they told me it wasn't available so i bought a Vesrah brand one from eBay.

[bkvette3]

No problem glad i could help, i can't take all the credit for the manuals a lot of guys did the work of getting them found, i just got them all put in one spot so they are easy to find. LOL

What did the dealer have for a price on them? Last i checked a dealer for that seal they told me it wasn't available so i bought a Vesrah brand one from eBay.

Hello kbOnly - sorry for the late reply back.

At my local Honda dealership (Alsport Sales Ltd) the retail cost for the following are:

Oil seal 45x60x9 91204-968-013 $13.72
O-ring 91311-PA9-004 $1.47
Recoil start gasket 28411-VM3-306 $6.93 Canadian funds

Just had a message today that the parts are in. Will pick up tomorrow after work. BK3

[kb0nly]

Those aren't too bad on the prices, good luck on fixing it up!!

[bkvette3]

Those aren't too bad on the prices, good luck on fixing it up!!


Thanks again for the help - much appreciated - picked up the parts today - repair will be done on Saturday - go for a ride on Sunday.


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/HPIM1068_zps25c40909.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/HPIM1068_zps25c40909.jpg.html)

[kb0nly]

Good deal, looks like you should have it fixed pretty quickly now that you got the parts!

[RedT2]

I am new to the board and I am digging up an old thread...

I've got an 84" 200es Big Red. The trike is in very good shape (imo), but I noticed it's got a little oil leak that I am thinking is coming from the shifter shaft seal or from the oil seal behind the recoil. I'd like to start with the easiest fix first and go after the shifter shaft seal. A couple things though... 1.) I am not sure where to locate the part number to order the correct seal, and 2.) it appears as though the cover for the sub-transmission is covering just a little bit of the top of the shifter shaft seal. It seems like this would impede the seal from coming out and going back on as easily as indicated previously in this thread. I've attached a picture for reference. Could you please provide some guidance and/or clarification on this?

Your help is appreciated... thanks!

[ironchop]

.... A couple things though... 1.) I am not sure where to locate the part number to order the correct seal.....

I use Babbitt's Online smartphone app. You can download free from Google Play if you have an Android OR go here....

https://www.babbittsonline.com/

You type in your machine pertinents and then they show you categories with exploded views to help identify the part you need and match with the corresponding OEM number. I personally only use OEM Honda seals and gaskets in my Honda's if available (your shifter seal is still available. See the link). Sometimes I find a slightly cheaper deal on OEM elsewhere but Babbitt's has been priced competitive for OEM Honda parts and I like how easy the app is to use. At the very least, you'll be able to find the correct part number for your needs and then you can shop for it wherever you please.

As for your other question, I'm not sure at the moment. Hopefully someone else can chime in.

I will add that I would recommend checking that your crankcase vent and hose is open and free flowing so your new seals won't leak after installation.



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[RedT2]

Thanks for the info. Am i looking at the right part number? 91206-286-013.

[lndy650]

ya that looks to be the right part. that cover needs to come off in order to install the seal correctly so you will need to order a gasket. the 200es has a wet stator which means theres oil behind the cover and that can leak also just fyi.

[RedT2]

ya that looks to be the right part. that cover needs to come off in order to install the seal correctly so you will need to order a gasket. the 200es has a wet stator which means theres oil behind the cover and that can leak also just fyi.

Thanks for the clarification. Will a regular socket wrench get the job done? I don't have and impact wrench or air tools.

I am confused on how others considered this a 3 minute job... Am I missing something here? This seems a little more in-depth for someone like myself who's a bit of a novice. Also, if the gasket you're referring to is part # 11398-969-306, I am in a bit of a bind because it doesn't look like it's available?

[lndy650]

the other 200 engines dont have that case in the way. also some might try to jam it past the case but if you want to do it right you should take that off. ya hand tools are fine use a pick or flat head to pry the seal out try to pry on the seal without touching the sealing surface of the case or shaft. once its out clean around the whole area with a solvent then start the seal as even as possible and with a socket that fits the seal slowly tap it in. dont use any silicone just make sure the surfaces are nice and clean.
we are here to help you along the way and ill get you an online copy of the repair manual. and ill see if i can find a gasket.

[RedT2]

the other 200 engines dont have that case in the way. also some might try to jam it past the case but if you want to do it right you should take that off. ya hand tools are fine use a pick or flat head to pry the seal out try to pry on the seal without touching the sealing surface of the case or shaft. once its out clean around the whole area with a solvent then start the seal as even as possible and with a socket that fits the seal slowly tap it in. dont use any silicone just make sure the surfaces are nice and clean.
we are here to help you along the way and ill get you an online copy of the repair manual. and ill see if i can find a gasket.

Very much appreciated!

[lndy650]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-HONDA-TRX200-ATC200ES-GASKET-GEAR-CASE-COVER-HTG92/202086908397?hash=item2f0d5181ed:g:fG4AAOSwGPxZ6mV 3:sc:USPSFirstClass!13325!US!-1&vxp=mtr

[lndy650]

heres a link for the manual let it load and you can use the download icon to download or the print icon to print it out. when you print your computer should let you choose the pages if you wanna just print what you need. or bring your laptop to the garage with you. and you dont even have to download it if you dont want to i just prefer to because adobe reader gives a better view than the browser

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/1984_200es_bigred.pdf

[lndy650]

just to be sure the case thats in the way is the hi/lo reverse case correct? im trying to remember but its been a minute since ive worked on one of those.

[RedT2]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-HONDA-TRX200-ATC200ES-GASKET-GEAR-CASE-COVER-HTG92/202086908397?hash=item2f0d5181ed:g:fG4AAOSwGPxZ6mV 3:sc:USPSFirstClass!13325!US!-1&vxp=mtr

We were looking at 2 different gaskets... I was looking at the gasket for the sub-transmission cover and you are looking at the gear case gasket. Honda's repair manual says it requires special tools (no idea which tools) to remove the gear case, which looks to be required to replace the gasket. Just so I know we are on the same page, are you referring to the gear case gasket or the sub-transmission gasket? I am willing to dive into this, but I need to know I have the right tools to complete the job. Sorry for all the clarifying questions, but I just want to be sure I know where I am headed with this. Thanks.

[lndy650]

well your going to need a gasket for every sealed surface you remove. you might want to just buy a complete gasket set they are 30-40 bucks on ebay. the pic is deceiving you might be able to squeeze the seal around that housing if you really dont wanna remove all that stuff but thats not how i would do it. Although if it doesnt work out trying it the easy way the worst you can do is ruin a couple dollar seal.
if it was me i would buy a complete gasket set and remove everything out of your way.

[RedT2]

well your going to need a gasket for every sealed surface you remove. you might want to just buy a complete gasket set they are 30-40 bucks on ebay. the pic is deceiving you might be able to squeeze the seal around that housing if you really dont wanna remove all that stuff but thats not how i would do it. Although if it doesnt work out trying it the easy way the worst you can do is ruin a couple dollar seal.
if it was me i would buy a complete gasket set and remove everything out of your way.

I'm seeing the same thing. I'd rather do it right. I just wonder what special tool(s) the Honda service manual is saying I'd need to get the gear case off?

[lndy650]

they are just talking about a bearing removal tool for replacing the shaft bearings. your bearings shouldnt need to be replaced.

[RedT2]

they are just talking about a bearing removal tool for replacing the shaft bearings. your bearings shouldnt need to be replaced.

I went back and re-read it...I missed the removal steps and instead looked at the steps for the gear case disassembly, which I am not going to do, so all is good on that front.

Thanks again!

[lndy650]

Your welcome. good luck and if you get stuck on anything just ask us on here. if noone replies send me a p.m.
one more thing in case i forget when you install the seal after cleaning the area use a touch of lubricant so the seal slides in nice and makes a good seal. assembly lube or even a bit of grease will work.

[RedT2]

When I replace the sub-transmission and gear case gaskets, do I need to apply grease or another product to the gaskets? Thanks

[lndy650]

no just make sure the surfaces are clean. i carefully use a razorblade for any old gasket material thats stuck. you can use a flathead screwdriver also just be careful not to mark up the surface.