350x fork seal replacment help

[kebby28]

So I did some searching and couldn't find anything on replacing the fork seals on the 350x. I have this front end installed on my 250es and I noticed one of the forks started to leak the other day. Well after a couple hours of riding it the other fork started leaking.?.?
Well I have never done forks before. I have the manual and I'm a decent mechanic but you folks seem to know all the tricks.

Should I buy this kit for $40
http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-86-HONDA-ATC350X-NEW-K-L-FRONT-FORK-DAMPER-OIL-SEAL-WIPER-KIT-15-4975-/370906907577?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1985|Make%3AHonda&hash=item565bc643b9&vxp=mtr

Or can I just do the seals themselves:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ATC-350X-FRONT-FORK-SEALS-1985-86-/290807359717?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b57828e5&vxp=mtr

I don't have allot of money but want to do it right. Is there any special tools I need to do this project or any other parts I should do while its apart? And, where is a good place to get a set of black fork boots of similar quality like the blue ones I have on there. Rigid with allot of ribs?
Thanks
182342

[kebby28]

Or #19
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/506ba9f6f870023420a2126a/front-fork

[devilman]

Its a simple job, just follow the manual. I would buy OEM seals. 90 degree snap ring pliers are a great tool to have. all I had was the straight type and it kicked my ass trying to get the rings out. place the fork in a vise and break loose the hex bolt before you unscrew the caps. a decent breaker bar with the hex bit will probably be needed. be careful not to strip it. may want to use an impact so you can shock it loose. I used a pvc pipe just bigger than the forks, as a seal driver.

[Dirtcrasher]

I haven't found any seal to be better than OEM Honda in 25 years.........

[kebby28]

Ahh, just the type of advise I'm looking for. I'll make sure I pick up a hex socket for a 1/2 impact gun. I have a set of 90 degree snap rings pliers. Cheapcycleparts.com looks like the way to go with oem honda parts. I have always been happy with them usually receiving my parts within 7 days of order.

[Dirtcrasher]

Even with a manual, some of it is overlooked and there are a few tips and tricks.

You can call me (Steve) at 774 7sixsix 17nine eight

I will get back to you if I miss the call :D

I'm home now, but don't mess with my Gold Rush :lol:

[kebby28]

The parts wont get to me before next week for sure. But the front has always been kinda sloshy. The manual says nothing about adding air to stiffen it up and I'm not even sure if thats how to go about it. Those air valves must be there for something, right?

[barnett468]

The parts wont get to me before next week for sure. But the front has always been kinda sloshy. The manual says nothing about adding air to stiffen it up and I'm not even sure if thats how to go about it. Those air valves must be there for something, right?

hi;

the purpose of the air valves is to let air out. they occasionally buikd up pressure. its more for pro racesr so they can let the aur out before their next race.

on a good set if shocks you can actially run air only but i would not recinned it.


i would do the following:

get front wheel just barely off the ground

grab axle and wiggle forks, there should be very little play, if there is a lot your lower tubes are worn and the seals might leak.

inspect the tubes, if they are noticeably pitted they will likely leak.

of you weigh more than around 160 you might put in 15 wt fork oil but add 1/2" more than recommended, the orig wt is around 7.

if it is still too soft try to put a 1" spacer in your tubes on top of the springs.

if it is still soft try ariund 7 lbs of air, i would never use more thsan that. you need a low pressure gauge to check it, if you get e gauge on and off quickly you will loose around 2 psi so 9 psi actually = around 7 after the gauge is removed.

if that is close than you might eventually buy some stiffer front springs or try 20 wt oil.

[barnett468]

If the seals have a double lip I put a little bel-ray grease in the groove.

[kebby28]

I weigh 200 even. I forget what I put in for oil originally but I went by what the book said. The forks are in real good shape too.

[barnett468]

I weigh 200 even. I forget what I put in for oil originally but I went by what the book said. The forks are in real good shape too.ok, i would try what i suggested if they were bottoming easily with fluid in them.

you might replace the damper rod seal while you are at it. these wear a lot after 18 years of riding. when they wear enough the oil leaks past them which causes the forks to feel softer than orig.

for original parts try:

cmsnl.com

partzilla.com

xtremeusa.com

[barnett468]

you can easily do this all on the bike without removing the forks if you want and don't plan to clean the upper tube or remove the damper rod. either way it is an easy way to loosen the allen bolt on the bottom of the tube.

1. put front wheel on large piece of cardboard if you want to try to keep floor clean.

2. place a square oil pan next to the tire with the front edge just under the tube.

3. remove drain screw on back side of one fork leg at the bottom.

4. straddle bike and push down in forks several times until all fluid is gone.

5. reinstall drain screw.

6. repeat on opposite side.

7. if you have a spare body around have them sit forward on the bike.

8. break 1 bolt on bottom of tube loose and remove it completely, there may be a rubber cap over it, if so just pry it off. there is also a copper washer on the bolt. the used ones often still seal but i might buy new ones.

9. if you see loctite on the bolt then clean it off with a wire brush or wire wheel etc.

10. reinstall the bolt with the washer and make it finger tight.

11. repeat on the other side.

12. put the bike on a stand

13. remove the front wheel.

14. either remove the bolt and gently pull on the tube to remove it or remove the entire tube assembly and disassemble wherever you want.


The purpose for doing it this way is so you have substantial pressure pushing down on the top of the damper rod which will hopefully prevent it from turning at any point. Once you remove, clean and reinstall the bolts lightly you will only require the spring pressure in the tube to remove the bolts all the way.

This has worked for me around 99% of the time and eliminates the need for a damper rod holding tool.

If you want to try removing the front tire first before loosening the bolts you can reinstall the front axle after removing the tire. This prevents the tube from turning while you turn the allen bolt.

You can reverse the process to tighten them.

I rarely loctite the bolts but it is a good safety precaution. if you do locrite them i would not use blue not red because if you use red you will likely need the damper rod tool to remove them next time.



if the bolt does not loosen you can reinstall the front titre if you want then have someone sit on the bike amd revert to the original metrthod i described if you want.


put bike on

[Dirtcrasher]

Once drained, put the lower legs in a vice AFTER removing the lower 8mm?? (allen bolt) and draining them, at the bottom and put them in a vice. Some hammering action is all that's required to pop out the upper Teflon ?? coated bushing with spacer seal and all. Allot of the 200X 33MM tubes get bent pretty easy. Get that lower tube SPOTLESS!!

There's like 8 pieces to each forks guts so it's chicken but do keep the fork parts separated. If the teflon? coating over the brass/bronze is worn bad/gone, a fork tube is bent so get the tube straightened.

It's really easy with a manual. Home Depot or Lowe's will have a size pipe to drive the bushing and seal back in place. Just use some common sense.........

El CAMEXICAN has you covered on the rest!!!!

[jays375]

Like statedy,follow manual very easy.I agree with oem seals also.Instead of ATF use regular fork oil.Iv'e had good results with 20 weight oil.A little heat from a propane torch on the outside of the fork leg will help remove bushing.It's gonna be messy!Have lot's of cleaner handy.

[BOB MARLIN]

Some good points made here.
I would like to add.
The pvc works well as a seal driver, but use the old seal attatched to the end of the pvc to push the new ones in.
Make sure you put the new seal in the right direction.
I'm about 200lbs. I found 15w fork oil works the best for me in my x's.
With the springs removed, compress the forks all the way,then add the oil. Measure the oil level from the top of the fork as accuratly as you can. 6 inches from the top works well for me. If they are to soft after that, add a little more oil.

[Dirtcrasher]

The reasons I like to remove them:

1)You can see if the tubes are straight.

2)You can grease up your steering stem.

3)You can't put seals in this way, the bushing came out when you yanked them off; Cannot re-install into new seals.

4)How do you use a seal driver on an upper tube you cannot slide things over or take off??

[barnett468]

I realized after posting post #13 that there were a few errors however I did not have the time to correct them and do not have an edit button, therefore I have reposted my previous post with the corrections. Sorry if my original post caused anyone any confusion.

Post #11 is a good post, the following is simply a different way to loosen the lower allen bolt and remove the lower leg. It also a helpful technique for those that might not have access to a vice.



You can remove the lower fork legs without removing the assemblies if you want.

You will need to remove the upper tube to reinstall the seals.


1. place a large piece of cardboard under the front wheel if you want to try to keep floor clean.

2. place a square oil pan next to the tire with the front edge just under the tube.

3. remove drain screw from 1 fork leg. it is located on the back side near the bottom.

4. straddle bike and push down on forks several times until all fluid is gone.

5. reinstall drain screw.

6. repeat on opposite side.

7. if you have a spare person around have them sit on the bike as far forward as possible.

8. break 1 bolt on bottom of tube loose and remove the bolt completely, there may be a rubber cap over it, if so just pry it off. there is also a copper washer on the bolt. The used washers often still seal but I might buy new ones.

9. if you see loctite on the allen bolt clean it off with a wire brush or wire wheel etc.

10. reinstall the bolt with the washer and make it finger tight.

11. repeat on the other side.

12. put the bike on a stand

13. remove the front wheel.

14. if you have a black dust seal [it mounts on top of the lower leg] remove it by tapping upward on it with a sharp small screw driver alternating from side to the other.

15. once the dust seal is free from the lower tube push it up as far as possible.

16. dislodge the retaining clip from the groove in the top of the lower leg. A small eyeglass type screw driver works.

17. remove the lower allen bolt.

18. pull gently to moderately hard on the lower leg to remove it or remove the entire fork assembly and disassemble wherever you want.

if you decide to remove the complete assembly i suggest yoi do steps 1, 2 and possibly 3 below if you want.

if the lower leg does not come off you can either simply tap the top edge of it moderately hard with a light to medium weight plastic hammer while pulling downward on it.

I have used the hammer technique many times and never damaged a leg, however it is safer for the lower leg if you remove it and place it in a vice and yank on the upper tube as mentioned by another.


If you don't want to use the hammer you can also try the following or revert to the instructions in post #11.


1. loosen the pinch bolts that hold the tube to the upper bracket [tripple tree].

2. remove the fork cap using slight downward pressure as mentioned by another.

3. remove fork spring, most, but not all of the oil will have drained off it by now.

4. push lower leg up around 10" and pull down moderately hard as mentioned by another. don't try to remove it with 1 hard pull, multiple pulls should remove it.

Once the top of the seal is at the top of the lower leg reduce the amount if pulling force so it does not come off unexpectedly and hit you in the n_ts.


I have used the hammer technique many times and never damaged a leg, however it is safer for the lower leg if you remove it and place it in a vice and yank on the upper tube as mentioned by another.



The purpose for loosening the allen bolts this way is so you have substantial pressure pushing down on the top of the damper rod which will hopefully prevent it from turning at any point.

This technique of removing the allen bolts has worked for me around 99% of the time and if it works it eliminates the need for a damper rod holding tool.

If you want to try removing the front wheel assembly before loosening the lower allen bolts you can reinstall the front axle after removing the wheel assembly. This axle will prevent the lower leg from turning while you turn the allen bolt.

You can reverse the process above to tighten the allen bolts after assembly.

I rarely loctite the bolts but it is a good safety precaution. If you do loctite them I would use blue not red because if you use red you will likely need the damper rod tool to remove them next time.



The link below is an orig parts fiche and link to a supplier of new but mostly discontinued parts.

Item 15 are the damper rod seals I suggested earlier you buy. Item 27 are the copper allen bolt sealing washers. All are available new original in the link below. Also try partzilla.com, xtremeusa.com, Honda shop or other source.

Item 15 takes 2, p/n 51437-461-003

Item 27 takes 2, p/n 90544-283-000

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc350x-1985-usa_model968/partslist/F++07.html#results

[barnett468]

ASSEMBLY ORDER - You can use the parts fiches in post 2, 13 or 20 to reassemble if you lose the order of the parts the fiches are all the same.


FORK CAP REMOVAL - If you do not loosen the pinch bolt I described before trying to remove the fork cap it might be difficult to remove and possibly damage the threads.


BENT TUBE CHECK - If you push up the lower leg and it moves smoothly and easily until it bottoms then that portion of the tube is straight, this can be done on the bike.

If you want to check the rest of the leg you must remove it. If you do not have the tools to check it with, then after removal you can simply look for a gap under it as you slowly roll it on a flat surface. A granite counter top where there is no seam is good otherwise a window also works well.


The link below is a free online original service manual. It might take up to 5 minutes to load completely.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/85-86_ATC350X_Service_Manual.pdf

[jays375]

Just remove them and follow the manual.Plus use the info from the shorter posts.It really isn't a bad job to do.

[kebby28]

Thanks for all the good info. I just followed El camexicans instructions for the most part but it went so smooth I kinda just winged it and went there for help. The 6mm allens came right out. Piece of cake.
I used universal tranny fluid because the manual doesn't specify any particular kind of atf. I filled them 9.8 fl.oz. (8 1/2" from the top.)

They seem to be just like they were before the seals went. But, I do not like how if I pull up on the front end the forks come up about another inch or two and hold until I get on again, and get off and pull up on the front and lift them back up the extra inch or two and it holds. Does that make sense? And is this normal or should these shocks push right up to full extention when I get off the machine?

[wonderboy]

I don't think it is a big issue if they aren't extending 100% all the way out. I think the answer to your question is to check the sag with you on the machine to see if your springs have enough preload for your weight.

When you are on the machine, you want the forks to be a little bit compressed so that the wheel has room to extend in case the first bump you hit is actually a hole (that's the way I think about it). I think there are some rules of thumb out there for how much sag you should have with you sitting on the machine. I think 1/3 of the total suspension travel is one rule of thumb. So in other words, if you have 9" of total travel (this is just a random number, not what the 350x has) you'd expect the suspension to compress about 3" with you on the machine in riding position.

So even with you off of the machine, the suspension may sag a little bit due to it's own weight. Also, the seals have a bit of friction to them which causes it to stay put when you fully extend the front forks. I think they'll free up a bit after you ride for a while.

[kebby28]

That is a great point that I never took into consideration. Thanks. I do think I should buy some real fork oil with a heavier weight. I am 200 even. I'm guessing they were designed for an average of 160-170...

[Dirtcrasher]

Yes yes, you will always have some sag. Especially if your heavy or a hard/fast rider on a tough course.

You never want to get on a stiff bike and try to feel comfortable.........

[jays375]

I mentioned to you about using 20 weight fork.Definately clean out the ATF and put in fork oil.Whwt did you use for seals,oem?

[Autophysn]

Hey guys,
I really only wanted to comment to tag myself in this thread and say thank you. Searching through older threads answered a lot of my questions. I recently brought home my old 350 x from my parents house that's been sitting since the late 90s and the forks are leaking so I just ordered the seals and boots and getting ready to do the job looking up some invaluable tips from the only place that I know how 3-wheeler world thank you ��