Cold Weather Starting

[generallee2005]

We recently moved to PA, so today is our first time really seeing it snow. I tried to get my YT125 started. Anyone have any suggestions to make it easier in the cold? It is pull start, & I did choke it, the choke does work. I tried push starting it after sweeping the snow away so the tires would grab, but really couldn't with the snow coming down. I don't really want to go through the trouble of pulling it behind the truck.

[beets442]

I use a large quartz light underneath the motor and cover it with a tarp for a couple hours.

[Ghostv2]

Maybe some of the guys from Alaska will chime in.
Im not an engine expert but maybe they jet it different for cold weather or tune is different in some way.

[generallee2005]

What's a quartz light? Is it one of those halogen lights on a little stand? Goodness, I don't know what I'd do if I had to do a cold weather tune, that just doesn't sound fun to me.

[CRAZY70MAN]

A little trick I have used on my sleds and trikes. When you go to park it for the night......choke it till it stalls.....this loads components with fuel faking the rich mixture ........... It has seemed to help quite a bit in the 0-10 degree starting for me personally. In the morning or the next time you ride....kick or pull aka....cycle the motor veryslowly a few strokes........and then kick or pull away. Hope it helps.......... Oh ya..... I do use starting fluid quite commonly still.....lol...:lol::lol::Bounce

[atc007]

Your choke tube is most likely plugged. If you are comfortable tearing into the carb. Pull the choke plunger out. Verify it is clean and free. Tear the carb apart and clean it. Paying very close attention to the choke tube that supplies FUEL up into the bottom of your choke plunger cavity. Also very special attention to the pilot AND air passages. Just because the FUEL passages are clean,doesn't mean the AIR passages are. The higher the compressed air the better for cleaning. No,, carb cleaner won't do anything except verify the passages are open after you're done. You need air. When you are done,if it is jetted stock,and has fresh fuel. It will start on full choke,warm right up and run great. This is all assuming your compression/engine is in good shape. Where in PA are you?

[Flyingw]

Yep, the guys are right. The problem is the motor is cold soaked. If you remember the triangle of fire, you need fuel, oxygen, and heat but with a cold soaked motor, the heat is the issue. If you were to warm the engine with a halogen light and a tarp or something along those lines and as 007 said, make sure your carb isn't clogged up.

[Ghostv2]

It was in the twenties today, started up instantly. I agree with everyone else, start with your carb. That should solve it.
182041

[Jason125m]

Was - 25 C here last week, all of the trikes fired up within 5 kicks or pulls. I would clean your carb and go from there....

Old Hondas LOVE the cold!

[generallee2005]

I'll have a look at the carb later in the week. I did like the idea of choking the motor until it stalls, gets the juices flowing quick! We moved to a suburb of Philly, I had gotten into an Optometry program here. With my last final tomorrow, I should have been studying instead of messing with the 3 wheeler, but the snow was calling me! I thought about starting fluid, but I've always heard that once you start using it, the motor will become dependent on it to start. I know back south, if I ever did have to choke it, it would start on the 2nd or 3rd pull always.

Thank y'all for the help! Now tomorrow comes my first experience driving in the snow! YeHaw!

[Ghostv2]

I think its probably more of the user that becomes dependent on starting fluid rather than the engine. Its suppose to make it easier on you and your machine. So you are not cranking your starter motor all day, stuff like that. I dont think it would do damage if you use it probably.

[atc007]

18 here,and everything starts. Sure ,,being inside and warm is cozy and comfy. But that bike will fire right up exactly as a SLED. Right down into negative temps. If it needs to be warmed,something is not right. Seriously now. Be careful in the ice and snow tomorrow. If you think it will take you 500 feet to slow down for a turn,give yourself 1500 feet,and get a feel from there. It is no joke till you get used to it :) Congrats on optometry school!

[El Camexican]

The sure fire cold weather start for us was to pull the plug, heat it with a propane torch (just get the tip warm and dry) dump a thimble of Coleman camp stove fluid into the spark plug hole, put the plug back in and light it up. I can’t remember once that it didn’t work. However that was just to get a properly running machine going below 20C. If your jetting is off, or the carb has issues I’d just go watch TV and wait for a warmer day to fix your ride. We also would lay a 100W trouble light inside the snowmobile cowls and throw a tarp over them for the night similar to what Beets said. It made it a lot easier to pull the engine over.

PS. I might be wrong, but I don't think you can pull start anything with an auto clutch

[99gsxr750]

I'll have a look at the carb later in the week. I did like the idea of choking the motor until it stalls, gets the juices flowing quick! We moved to a suburb of Philly, I had gotten into an Optometry program here. With my last final tomorrow, I should have been studying instead of messing with the 3 wheeler, but the snow was calling me! I thought about starting fluid, but I've always heard that once you start using it, the motor will become dependent on it to start. I know back south, if I ever did have to choke it, it would start on the 2nd or 3rd pull always.

Thank y'all for the help! Now tomorrow comes my first experience driving in the snow! YeHaw!


Were you in the 8-10in area? I'm about an hour north of Philly and only got a few inches.

[Yamada]

The sure fire cold weather start for us was to pull the plug, heat it with a propane torch (just get the tip warm and dry) dump a thimble of Coleman camp stove fluid into the spark plug hole, put the plug back in and light it up. I can’t remember once that it didn’t work. However that was just to get a properly running machine going below 20C. If your jetting is off, or the carb has issues I’d just go watch TV and wait for a warmer day to fix your ride. We also would lay a 100W trouble light inside the snowmobile cowls and throw a tarp over them for the night similar to what Beets said. It made it a lot easier to pull the engine over.

PS. I might be wrong, but I don't think you can pull start anything with an auto clutch

Yes you can pull start a 3 wheeler with an auto-clutch. I use to pull start my ytm-200 and my atc-200e big red one winter. The pull rope was broken and no battery. Just put it in fifth gear, lift the rear wheels and run and drop the 3 wheeler, it will start!

[Ghostv2]

I push started a few trikes. Everyone says you cannot do it. My 200s recoil rope broke while i was hauling camping gear. I gave it a running start and put it in gear and bam. Did it again when i got it off the truck when i was home to put it away.

[Name Brand]

Cold, thick oil will increase the difficulty of any engine to start. Internal motor parts meet increased resistance from the slick stuff when temperatures are frigid, and there are a lot of parts that need to move inside our Trike engines.

I try to keep my SX inside if at all possible. Doing so takes most all the trouble of getting started in the cold away. If the machine has been cold soaked outside I avoid using the electric start. The starter will just be overworked trying to turn the engine and the cold oil, the battery will lose its charge and even the solenoid will suffer wear from all the false starts. I try mechanical means for starting in the cold first. On my SX that is the kick start. On other machines like my 125m, that is of course the pull start. The first kick I do slow; just to get parts moving and oil spreading. I use the choke and kick as I regularly would in any weather. When I can hear the engine begin to combust I add a touch of throttle and the engine will begin running slowly on its own. I will use the throttle to keep the engine running, but I will allow the engine to warm and reach idle speed as much as it can on its own. Once it idles without throttle input, I slide the choke back till it runs smooth without. After the machine runs as it should I will let it sit and idle on its own for at least five minutes. Doing so allows the oil to heat and move freely throughout the engine. Never race a cold engine to warm it up.

Adding external heat speeds up or can eliminate this whole process. If you use a light use one that is caged. Even a 60watt bulb will melt rubber and plastic if in close contact or start a fire if a tarp or cloth is placed too close. The same applies to space heaters, heat guns, hair dryers, etc.

I do have an SX project coming up that will likely be a year round rider for me. In addition to heated handgrips and maybe even seat, a small automotive style oil pan heater may find its way onto the bottom of the engine.

There are those times when electricity is not available to run those heating devices. To heat the engine I have several times before started up my truck and placed the SX right next to the truck exhuast. Lots of hot air and just a few minutes have always helped the engine start. Of course exhuast is dirty and not to be breathed in, so be mindful of that hazard. I'm sure that carbon and other exhuast nastyness is being deposited on my machine. I am also sure that snow is way fun to tear around in, and by the end of my ride my SX is completely been cleaned by the powder. I would hesitate to do this with my diesel truck though; but that ride needs some tune up.

I will not go anywhere else to ride if I cannot get my machine running at home first.

[muthey]

Also I want to remind you that with any carberated motor they run lean in the winter so be careful when running it as I would hate to see you seize it from a lean condition, and to put you all to rest I was -30 F. two days ago with a high of -25 during the day. HA

[generallee2005]

My wife & I complain to each other about the weather when it got into the 20's here a few weeks ago, I can only imagine how brutal a -25 degree day is. I'm going to pull the carb off & clean it, I'm sure my neighbor has an air compressor I can use. Rookie question here, when I do blow out the passages, just get the attachment pressed to the carb & blow, should I do a pre-soak in carb cleaner? I cleaned the carb last a little over a year ago, but didn't blow it out, I just soaked. Made a big positive difference, so I just let it roll.

Usually I can get to school in 30 minutes depending on traffic, but tomorrow I'll probably go thru North Philly, instead of the back roads, since they'll more likely be cleared. I'm going to leave at least 2 hours early probably, I can't miss this final!

We weren't in the 8-10 inch area, I think I heard my wife say we had gotten about 5 inches today here. We're in the Roxborough/Manayunk area of Philly.

[muthey]

if you do soak it in carb cleaner pull every part out of the carb especially the rubber and soak it over night I have boiled in white vinegar before and prefer to soak for two days in gasoline, seems to work ok with out damaging the rubber, also help mixed with PBlaster to loosen corroded screwed in jets. after it has soaked use a thin piece of wire and go through each pathway, and then blow through with compressed air, and yes use the rubber tip attachment and press it to the opening.

[fallguy666]

Was 27° here a few weeks ago.my 350 started second kick with the choke on.it helps to up the size of the slow jet in cold weather

[barnett468]

We recently moved to PA, so today is our first time really seeing it snow. I tried to get my YT125 started. Anyone have any suggestions to make it easier in the cold? It is pull start, & I did choke it, the choke does work.
I know back south, if I ever did have to choke it, it would start on the 2nd or 3rd pull always.OK AS YOU SAID, IT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE YOUR CARB IS PLUGGED BUT CLEAN THE CARB IF YOU WANT, BETTER TO BE SAFE THEN SORRY BESIDES YOU SHOULD CHANGE YOUR JETS AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY SUGGESTED.
JETTING - Go to pg 374 in the link below, find your stock jetting spec, if your bike is stock then I would go up 1 - 2 sizes on the pilot, 1 size on the main and raise the needle up 1 position from the stock recommendations. If your jetting is not stock then if it ran perfectly in the south i would just increase the siveas from what they currently are and move the needle up.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/Yamaha/ytm-(yt125,yt175)condensed-service-data.pdf

SPARK PLUG - The stock plug is a champion N10Y, this is the same as an NGK 7. I would buy an NGK 6 and 5 and see if the 5 starts easier than the 6. You need the hotter plug to increase combustion chamber temps when you are running 20 degree air into your engine.

STARTING FLUID – a shot of this will help it to start.

GAS – Do not run corn gas [ethanol] it will make your vehicles harder to start because it does not burn well

[bkm]

I actually had to give the Big Red a shot of carb cleaner the other night. It wouldn't hit a lick without it.

[El Camexican]

I do have an SX project coming up that will likely be a year round rider for me. In addition to heated handgrips and maybe even seat, a small automotive style oil pan heater may find its way onto the bottom of the engine.

According to an old (like died 20 years ago at the age of 90) mechanic that lived down the road he said whenever they would go to rebuild an engine that had been equipped with an oil pan heater that the inner components were badly pitted. He said this was due to the acidic contaminates that were released from the dirty oil when it was heated. Told me that was why cars went to block heaters. I’ve never seen such things and maybe with modern oil the problem is solved, but you may want to keep good clean oil on the cases if you go that way.

[barnett468]

Cold, thick oil will increase the difficulty of any engine to start. Internal motor parts meet increased resistance from the slick stuff when temperatures are frigid, and there are a lot of parts that need to move inside our Trike engines.
I was bored so I spent an hour doing this. Here’s a list of cold weather wet clutch 4 stroke motorcycle oils. I prefer ones with zddp [with zinc akyl dithiophosphate]. For temps below around 20 deg f or less I might use the lucas 5w-20. I would definitely use it at temps below 0. Motul products are used by some factories in ultra high revving road race machines. I recommend against using regular automotive oil in a wet clutch system.

Motul

5w-30 synthetic has 1.4% zddp this is very good
5w-30 synthetic blend has 3% zddp that’s a ton

http://www.motul.com/us/en-us/products?f[engine_type]=26&f[range]=21&f[viscosity]=33


lucas

5w-20 synthetic has zddp in unknown levels call for info
5w-30 synthetic has zddp in unknown levels call for info

https://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=55&catid=16&loc=show

lucas products msds list

http://www.lucasoil.ca/products/motorcycle-products.asp


motorex pro 4t

5w-30 ? synthetic zddp?
10w-30 synthetic zddp?

http://www.motorexusa.com/musa/offroad.asp

http://www.ktmpartsonline.com/accessories/motorex-oils


bel ray no zddp but uses other

10w-30 synthetic with antimony tris dipentylcarbamodithioato

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-exp-synthetic-ester-blend-4t-engine-oil

10w-30 std oil has 1 – 2.5% zddp [with zinc akyl dithiophosphate]

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-atv-trail-mineral-4t-engine-oil

[beets442]

Yes,Halogen
The reason I say warm it up is because of the fuel we have these days. Lots of water+freezing temps=ice.
Doesnt take much to settle in those jets or lines.
I've had it happen on my 350X many years ago.
Now I use Seafoam and a little 110 oct. Starts Like a champ
Good luck with the cold weather.
Oh yea heres a pic of some fuel that came from a 2 1/2 gal can of premium
that sat for 3 months.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/photo_zpsd69177c6.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/beets442/media/photo_zpsd69177c6.jpg.html)

[59GMC]

-45 degrees Celsius this morning here in Winnipeg, Canada. not sure what all of you are complaining about, haha! My sx always goes if its got full synthetic in it..

[barnett468]

Oh yea heres a pic of some fuel that came from a 2 1/2 gal can of premium
that sat for 3 months.Is that ethanol corn gas or real gas. If it's ethanol what is the "blend" ie., E85?

[kb0nly]

Mine sit in a cold shed, the 200ES gets plugged into a battery maintainer just to keep that topped off in the cold. Other than that, i go out turn on the tank vent, petcock, pull on the choke, flip the ignition switch and hit start, usually three to four revolutions of the motor and she is up and running on her own. After a couple minutes you can tell she is running too rich on the choke and i push that off and then let her idle another 5 mins to warm up the oil. And away i go!

Been really cold here lately, thankfully we are up the single digits below zero, -5F right now, it was -17F the other morning. The windchills today are going to be a factor though, we have a windchill warning for -20 to -30F windchills.

The other day when i went out to plow the driveways with the 200ES the air temp was -14F, she started right up as normal. About the only tuning or adjustments i make in the winter is to adjust the idle speed a smidge. Make sure your oil is up to the task also, 5w-40 is recommended when its this cold. But i know some run 10w-40 all winter.

As for heating... I havent had to, but i do have a halogen worklight that is a 300w and it can literally heat the shed in an hour. Aimed right at the motor it will definitely warm it up. I always thought about a heater for the motor, but unfortunately since its an all aluminum case you can't stick one of those magnet ones on and get a good heat distribution. I have a small adhesive pad one on my lawn tractor, that makes a huge difference when thats plugged in. Its a 800w heater and brings the aluminum block up to temp in about 20 mins. Spins over nice then! Should do that with the 200ES also.

[El Camexican]

-45 degrees Celsius this morning here in Winnipeg, Canada. not sure what all of you are complaining about

Yea, but it's a dry cold!:lol:

[generallee2005]

As far as oil goes, I've got the Honda 10W30. Would a switch to 5W help, right? If I remember right, the lower the Winter value, the thinner the oil, but my brain hurts after finals! I usually do Yamalube, in the Yammy, but they were out & cut me a deal on the Honda oil last trip! I ran marine gas when we were in Alabama, we were in Mobile then so marine gas was everywhere. I do run the E85 here, I guess I'm too far inland, no one sells the "pure" gas close by. Nearest place I could find on the net was about an hour away. I do put in Lucas stabilizer, I forget the exact name, I have it in the shed with the 3 wheeler. I don't have power ran out there, I'm going to try & talk the landlord into fixing it, there used to be, but he said the line got broke a few years ago. That's why I think I'm going to clean the carb again, to avoid having to plan ahead to go for a ride & to make sure the E85 hasn't done any bad deeds in the carb. Really all I do on here it is ride the kiddo around in 40 ft rectangles in the back yard, when we get bored with it, we go the other way for something different; I brought it here for the snow.

I will look into the hotter plug, I like the idea of that. When you guys get the jets, where do you get the jets? Do you get a package of various case of them?

But I want to thank you guys again for your input!

[El Camexican]

5W30 won't hurt, synthetic would be even better (can't wait to see the reply’s to that comment!). JetsRus has great selection.

[Caminofeld]

I agree with most everyone on here...start with the carb. I've never had any problems starting my stock Hondas, Kawis, or Yamis in the MD/PA cold. In Alaska or Montana where the temps run crazy low it may be another story. Rejetting may work, but you shouldn't have to resort to that unless you're changing the intake or exhaust. These machines were designed to perform in varying climates. I think a thorough carb cleaning or rebuilding combined with a good tune-up should set you straight. Just remember that if you're running a wire through to use copper or something softer than the carb metal.

As far as oil and fuel go, I've used the Honda oil in everything I've ever owned and never had an issue.

And for gas, I ALWAYS use high octane and fuel stabilizer if it's gonna sit for awhile (I was once told that regular gas is only good for 30-60 days).

Good luck!

[atc007]

3 pages and going :).. Guys, If you are shooting starting fluid in it. Something is NOT right. Old gas,dirty carb,out of tune engine etc. If things are correct with fresh gas. It will start on it's own. Generallee. Do NOT put a hotter plug in it!!! If you want to play with that at all. Learn how to read your plug. It should be a darkish brown to blackish to be safe. If it is anywhere near light brown to gray. You either need to re jet or your carb is dirty. Either way,you're going in the carb. A Ngk 5 WILL absolutely positively burn a beautiful round window in the top of your piston. It may take a little longer "just putting". But a 5 and any normal rider will melt you down so quick you'll need a top end and maybe bottom work. Clean your carb with compressed air. Sounds to me like you are right on top of the oil and fuel. Put a dab of dry gas in it if you fear water. Not much though. Juries out on too much drygas causing melt downs in 2 cycles. Read your plug after 5+ minutes of riding and I'm guessing it will be right where you need it. If so, and the choke is working perfectly. You will be starting her up by pulling the choke cable :) Hope you aced finals? Also,run 93,don't even think twice about the couple dollars a year it will cost you. It will start and run SO much better with better fuel :) And 5w30 full syn oil ,as El said while I was editing!

[barnett468]

As far as oil goes, I've got the Honda 10W30. Would a switch to 5W help,you will not likely notice much if any improvement in starting but i would definitely do that but only if it is 4 stroke motorcycle oil as i mentioned before also synthetic is more "slippery" which means that if you have 10w-30 std oil and 10w-30 synthetic oil, the parts will move a little more freely with the synthetic then they will with the std oil. yes it is strange..





If I remember right, the lower the Winter value, the thinner the oil,well in short the colder it is the thinner the oil you can and should run up to a certain point. no matter how cold it is outside your engine is still going to get pretty warm so you still need a minimum weight to the oil. This is one place the multi viscositiy oils help. You can still run 30 or b40 weight in all temps simply by getting one with a lower initial rating like 5 instead of 10 or 15 for when it is really cold outside.

i think one can over think the oil viscosity vs temp issue.





I do run the E85 here,Ok, that stuff is junk and as i mentioned, it will definitely make it a little harder to start your bike. You can buy a gas from the airport or order it from trick racing fuels. you mix it 50/50 but 75% - 100% good gas would be better.

if your gas is yellow like the gas above it is no good, it will no longer burn well.





I will look into the hotter plug, I like the idea of that.It will definitely help





When you guys get the jets, where do you get the jets? Do you get a package of various case of them?I only use orig jets but they are not cheap and they are sold individually only as far as I know. the dealer can get them otherwise:

cmsnl.com

partzilla.com

sudco.com

But I want to thank you guys again for your input![/QUOTE]

[barnett468]

Below are 2 of the 3 5w-30 full synthetic oils I recommended in my previous post #25. I added some locations where they are more readily available. The Lucas and possibly the Motul can be ordered by most big chain auto stores, if not then the sites below are likely the easiest source.

I would not run the Motul due to the extremely high levels of ZDDP. Those levels are not for prolonged use although it would likely take several years of occasional riding to see ant possible adverse effects of it if ever. Around 1.1% - 1.4% is the ideal daily use amount.



Lucas 5w-30 synthetic motorcycle oil with ZDDP 1 qt bottle

$7.25 1 qt bottle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/320334863523?lpid=82

$8.99
http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10049-5W-30-Synthetic/dp/B001DKQ4HO



Motul 300V 5w-30 synthetic motorcycle oil with ZDDP 2.1 qt bottle

$30.00
http://www.fcpimport.com/products/300v-power-racing-5w30-2-liter-103128

$34.00
http://www.amazon.com/Motul-300V-5W30-POWER-RACING/dp/B005V2ADLI

$35.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181265162745?lpid=82

[generallee2005]

Thanks guys for all the great input, I've got enough to keep me busy checking for sure. But I love doing this & posting pictures of the three wheeler on Facebook & someone saying something about it. These old wheelers are great conversation starters & a barrel of fun. I'm going to close the thread & get things sorted out & we have more snow in the forecast for the weekend, so hopefully by then I'll have a good report & good pictures!