HELP! another 85 250R clutch play problem

[3wheelrider]

Well- I wish I had pictures-but anyway: I have a problem with no almost no actuation as if the cable was too long -but its not-I think. (M.P.#02-0127) which I bought maybe 2 yrs ago still like new-(shiny,smooth & no binding) dont appear frayed or stretched? I have to have adj. maxed out on both ends to have it work.....BUT- My clutch actuator arm starts to engage where it should- almost perpendicular I guess you could say-or lever is pointing straight in when it starts to engage...so that SEEMS like the problem is not internal? -Am I wrong? I've seen cases when the arm catches late & rotates alot before engaging-& this is not the case....:wondering - So before I take it apart.... I put new clutch kit recently but seemed to make things worse with the stiffer/longer springs. Anyway, could it be the wrong type clutch lever assembly??? Where do I go from here?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Don't be insulted by this question, but when you did the clutch kit, did you make sure the ball bearing went back in on the clutch end of the actuator shaft??

[3wheelrider]

The play was there before the clutch kit-yes -I know about the ball & it was in there. It all looked ok last time I looked but will have to check it all again & see. But like I said-the arm seems to be actuating at the right point so I'm not sure theres a problem inside? Or can there still be a internal problem. Pushing on the arm - it works fine and disengages fully.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

If the actuator rod, ball and button are all on good shape, I would lean toward a cable issue.

IDK about the rest here, but in the past I have had issues with cables not being quite right. Seems as though the cable manufacturers like to try to have 1 cable work for a few different models and sometimes they don't work really well for certain models... But its funny you have a MP cable.. I always thought they were pretty spot on..

I have had bad experiences with new clutch and throttle cables where I had to have the adjusters maxxed out one way or the other in order to get proper operation....

[3wheelrider]

180953
OK-this should help: Thats the point where it is at rest but just where it starts to engage. Seems fine?-could the problem (play) still be inside?-
Or could it be the type of hand lever assembly? or even the handlebars length/height causing the issue? Really seems as if it would be the cable as the cause but not sure since it seems perfect?

[threewheelin-feelin]

just an idea here... what brand cable are you using? is it motion pro or oem? if its motion pro throw it away and buy an oem. even if that doesnt fix your problem replace it anyway. i have had 4 motion pro cables break on me on different bikes. i have also had issues with getting them adjusted right. i will never buy another motion pro

[3wheelrider]

It is Motion Pro--Hmm-I wonder now what the true length of the cable SHOULD be...(OEM)

[El Camexican]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/147713-Wet-Clutches?highlight=wet+clutches

LEVERS & CABLES AND HOW TO ADJUST THEM
All cable manipulated clutches have a clutch lever, a cable and an arm, cam or a worm gear that provides a mechanical advantage to move the pressure plate against the springs. If these parts on your ride are stock then proper maintenance and adjustment should be all you need to keep them working correctly. Sometimes, especially if someone has incorrectly routed a clutch cable, the cable housing can be pinched, kinked, or otherwise hampered from smooth operation. If you have any doubts about this you need to disconnect the cable from the point closest to the engine and move the hand lever in and out. There should be no resistance whatsoever in either direction. If there is you either have very dirty cable housing, or you need a new cable. I recommend a new cable anytime there is any unknown cause of resistance or defect in the housing as the internal damage can be worse than the exterior looks. Argue that all you want, but I think anyone who’s ever had a cable fail will agree that it’s cheap insurance. Also keep in mind that if you change any component in the clutch lever/cable assembly you may also be changing the amount of movement that is transmitted to the clutch plates. i.e. a longer distance between the pivot bolt on the clutch lever and the point where the end of the cable seats in the lever will open the clutch assembly more than a shorter distance between the two would, but the force required of the rider to pull the lever will be greater. Similar changes occur if you change the length of the lever closest to the engine that the cable attaches to. If you make it longer the clutch will be easier to pull, but the amount that the clutch pack opens will be reduced. There is often a splined connector on the lever that attaches closest to the engine. For the best possible clutch action it is recommended that you position it in a place that will see it at 90 degrees to the nearest mounting point of the clutch cable housing halfway through its pull. This will provide the least amount of resistance to the user and aside from being easier to pull it will reduce the force exerted on the cable ends that could cause premature failure. You should also try to have all the cable housing adjusters in the most neutral position possible i.e. don’t thread the entire end of the engine side of the cable all the way into the holder and have only two threads of the other end in the clutch perch. This is a sure way to ruin the threads on the hand lever perch and will eliminate the possibility of making a simple adjustment on the trail. It is a lot easier to play with these little details in the shop than it is on a hot muddy engine in the middle of mosquito invested swamp

[El Camexican]

It is Motion Pro--Hmm-I wonder now what the true length of the cable SHOULD be...(OEM)

In theory it doesn’t matter if the cable is 10 inches or 10 feet, what matters is its relation to the housing. If a stock cable is 2” longer than the housing and an aftermarket cable is 3 inches longer than its housing you have 1” too much of cable and it will be hard to adjust that much out of the mix. Do you have the original to compare it to?

[3wheelrider]

In theory it doesn’t matter if the cable is 10 inches or 10 feet, what matters is its relation to the housing. If a stock cable is 2” longer than the housing and an aftermarket cable is 3 inches longer than its housing you have 1” too much of cable and it will be hard to adjust that much out of the mix. Do you have the original to compare it to?

Good point...-No- I dont have the original to compare to. Thanx for the info. So does the position of the arm mean it should be ok internally-or not?

[CodyRosa]

Sorry if this is useless.. i may be mis understanding what the problem is.. but the actuator arm has 0 play when pulling the clutch? As if there is absolutely NO resistance? like nothing there. Can you take the actuator arm out and put into different spot? On my yz 125 i had to put the actuator arm in like 180 degrees the opposite way and turn it till it stopped from resistance.. then put the cable on and it was good.

So with the cable attached now can you move the actuator arm the way the cable pulls? If so the arm is in wrong position. There should be resistance that should take a lot of force to move it.

If this info is wrong sorry.. im just going off what my dirtbike was assuming the clutches are the same concept.

[3wheelrider]

My problem is TOO MUCH play in the cable. Clutch/Arm works fine. Just dont make sense. Im gonna have to assume its the cable like 3wheelinfeelin said. --I thought I'd have more of you would have a straight answer to this based on the actuator arm-guess not.

Ok- How bout this: Can someone give me the measurement a OEM clutch cable should retract in & out?- Maybe that will answer my problem.-Thanx

[Kryten]

I have the exact same issue, initially thought it was something internal, but now it makes me wonder if it is the Motion Pro replacement cable.

[threewheelin-feelin]

I have the exact same issue, initially thought it was something internal, but now it makes me wonder if it is the Motion Pro replacement cable.

yeah guys im not trying to say its for sure the problem. but i have sworn i will never use another motion pro cable. id say go oem guys thats what i did

[3wheelrider]

Measured the cable (disconnected at the lower holder) & it seems 1/2"-5/8" too long. Also, I believe my clutch (hand) lever may be compounding the issue cause it only pulls the cable 5/8" when I pull in the hand lever.-dont seem to be enough??? The hand lever has quite a inward bend that bumps the bars . I believe it was for a 450r? I guess it doesnt work well with the R?? Also -the clutch springs which were replaced are longer/stiffer which is too hard! Big strain on parts & my hand too. Damn, I wish I still had the stock clutch springs/cable/perch/lever!!!! Anyway- It may be a series of things goin on here.......

[threewheelin-feelin]

when i built my 310 i used the barnett dirt digger clutch kit. it is a very smooth operating clutch

[RIDE-RED 250r]

El Camexican raises a very good point about the length of the cable in relation to the housing!

Along with that, I generally stay away from clutch lever and perch setups that are advertised as "easy pull". They usually accomplish this by moving the cable anchor point in the lever closer to the pivot point in the perch. While this does in fact reduce the amount of force needed to pull the clutch lever, it in turn shortens the amount of pull you will have on the cable.

It sounds to me like you have a bad combination of clutch lever and perch. It's not likely you have internal problems as those parts rarely fail..at least I have never had one of those components fail anyway...

Do you have a clutch lever and perch kicking around that will lengthen the amount of pull you can exert on the cable to try out?

[El Camexican]

Yea, that lever assembly sounds like it might be adding to the issue. Can you still get an OEM cable for that unit?

[Dirtcrasher]

Get the correct cable.

Come on, it's a damn cable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or in internal wear ISSUE.

CAKE!! CHICKEN!!

[threewheelin-feelin]

Yea, that lever assembly sounds like it might be adding to the issue. Can you still get an OEM cable for that unit?

rocky mountain atv has oem cables listed in stock for $20 plus shipping. i found mine new in package on ebay for like $15 shipped. either way they are still available

[Mosh]

Just cut another adjuster barrel from another lever and add it to the existing clutch lever adjuster to space the cable out. See if it works.

I have one of those cables on my R. It works fine. Also I have seen the big nut on the basket loosen up and back off causing the whole basket to push out when you use the clutch. It does that until the cable can't compensate then usually blows the threads out of the nut..

And I never use HD clutch springs unless on a high HP drag machine. Imo they are useless for all around riders and the stock springs have always been adequate for even modded machines.

[Kryten]

I just bought an '85 250R OEM clutch cable, paired it up with the Motion Pro I currently have. These are identical. My issue is definitely internal.

[barnett468]

Well- I wish I had pictures-but anyway: I have a problem with no almost no actuation as if the cable was too long -but its not-I think. Also, I believe my clutch (hand) lever may be compounding the issue cause it only pulls the cable 5/8" when I pull in the hand lever. The hand lever has quite a inward bend that bumps the bars. Also -the clutch springs which were replaced are longer/stiffer which is too hard! Big strain on parts & my hand too. Damn, I wish I still had the stock clutch springs/cable/perch/lever!LEVER ASSY - If your lever assy is not stock and you want to get a stock one, the oem fiche below shows the original lever assy which they have in stock. You might also find a new one at partzilla or a used one at a salvage yard or here on the site.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1985-usa_model68/partslist/F++02.html#results


STOCK CLUTCH SPRINGS - The original springs are available. See item 11 in the first link below. The price on their site is in English Pounds, the prices below are US.

p/n 22401-ML3-910, $4.95

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1985-usa_model68/partslist/E++04.html#results


p/n 22401-ML3-910, $3.86

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-22401-ML3-910.html