1987 250R/350X - Update Dec 2014: 1987 250R-H Parts Catalog Located *Pics!*

[slashfan7964]

I just got off the phone with a Honda rep, and recorded it btw, who said his cut off was 1986 but parts for '87s may have gotten out at some point very early in the production runs before complete trikes were actually put together to be shipped off. No complete trikes were ever actually built or sold, so he couldn't give me any production numbers when he dug into them. He said most of the guys who would know this information are now retired. He also gave me numbers for Honda Canada and Honda Japan to see if they could dig up any information on them when I asked if they may have been sold overseas or in other countries. I'll try and give them a call soon.


So no. The 1987 250R or 350X do NOT exist [This was later confirmed to be false to an extent), but pre production parts got out and/or were sold off early in the production runs, which would explain miscellaneous parts such as the random seat, cylinder heat and plastics but no full trike. I'll have the video uploading soon. This is for the US.


In Canada, they were sold in extremely low numbers and were confirmed to exist. I have that recorded as well.

_____________________________

EDIT:

After some time, the search continues. Credible evidence will hear on out be posted in this thread.

[dougspcs]

Of course you mean 'Busted a Myth"..those are hateful words you speak!!!

Killing a believers dream like that, you tell 5 years old there is no Easter Bunny or Santa too??

You're just cruel!!!

:mad:

[slashfan7964]

I hate to be that guy...I really do. I wanted it to be true soooooo bad. And I really wanted to find out so I started digging. But no, the said some NOS parts may have been sold off in the pre production stages but the trikes themselves were never fully built and sold. He said any information he had access to would be for US production so I may have more luck with Canada or Japan but otherwise they were never built. Like I said, I'm going to get ahold of Honda Canada and probably Honda Japan.

[dougspcs]

I hate to be that guy...I really do. I wanted it to be true soooooo bad. But no, the said some NOS parts may have been sold off in the pre production stages but the trikes themselves were never fully built and sold. He said any information he had access to would be for US production so I may have more luck with Canada or Japan but otherwise they were never built. Like I said, I'm going to get ahold of Honda Canada and probably Honda Japan.

Did he have any explanation why many of the other models like the 87 250ES/250SX/125M/200X (others??) made it to the sales floor but not those particular models.??

[slashfan7964]

I didn't ask about them in particular, but I did bring up that '87 200X's are around having seen one myself, along with making note of several others in the brochure that people have seen and own. The only thing I can think of was that those new models were in pre development stages a tad longer (all new technology supposedly), and therefore took longer to put into production. By that point, the trike ban was signed and production halted just before these new trikes were completely assembled leaving Honda to sell off NOS '87 parts without a complete trike. He did mention that as well.


I'm about to get on the phone with Honda Canada to see if they say otherwise. As of right now, Honda USA is saying they weren't totally finished.


EDIT:


I'm on the phone with Honda Canada...the guy has no idea what I'm talking about lol. Hes looking into seeing if it actually existed and their records though, so hope isn't lost.

[slashfan7964]

Holy hell i have confirmation of sub 100 fully running models produced and sold in canada!!!!!!!!!!


THIS IS A BIG DEAL!!!!!


He said production was cut off extremely early but they were built and sold!! He was surprised when I told him you all have been looking for them for 15 years!!! He said they were produced but they have no real paper work and to find any information they would need a VIN number!!! He didn't have much information on them other than they were built and sold in extremely low numbers due to production being cut off. I basically fell into the same issue as the US....all the old timers are gone....except one, and he confirmed it. He couldn't confirm where it was actually built however, he said they may have been built at plants here in the states or at Canada, or built in the states and imported into Canada, and the only way to know was with a VIN, and the only way to get info on it was with a VIN, but they were indeed produced!!!!!!!!!!!


Now the question is.....do you want the US one that tells you nothing really other than they were sold in the US, or the Canada one where they comfirmed they exist? Both videos are about 20 minutes long and will take forever to upload to YouTube....

[dougspcs]

Good research..keep it coming.

Even if the end results aren't what we want to hear, if the source is solid it settles years of debate.

Let's see those videos!!!

[slashfan7964]

I have the big confirmation video converting over to a smaller file so it doesn't take so long to upload to YouTube. I can confirm the source is valid. I made it very clear to show the url in my browser, along with the page with the phone number. I showed me actually enter the number into the phone and calling and then putting it on speaker. I had to go through to process of option 1, 2, and 3 both videos. In the first video, you hear him give me the number for Honda Canada. I then do the same procedure in the second video, in which he confirms they were produced. You clearly hear a "Yes" when asked. Honestly, I can't believe it was that easy. Why hasn't anyone else done it all these years?


Also, this is the URL in which I got the Honda USA phone number.


http://powersports.honda.com/contact.aspx



This is a picture of my cell phones recent calls. As you can see, the top and bottom numbers are valid.

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/slashfan7964/null_zps2baa184b.jpg

This is the sheet of paper I wrote stuff down on as I was talking to them.

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/slashfan7964/null_zps00d87ad4.jpg



I will upload the first video if there is enough demand but it doesn't really tell you much. In case I don't feel like uploading it, here's a link to the Contact Us page for Honda Canada. You can compare the numbers. the one in my phone is valid and you see me entering it and getting ahold of the guy.

http://www.honda.ca/contact_us

[oscarmayer]

if you follow Honda's usual lines, when it comes to their top models back then every 2-3 years they redid things. think about that for a moment. 82-84 250r, 85-86 250r, 87 probably had a design change maybe even planning with a 500 till the idiot news asshat who handed his 12 yr old a 200x in 86 lost his son caused the lies and descete of safety for the 3-wheelers. (yes I hate that guy)
so if they were planning on a model design change that would explain why no 87 models of the 350x or 250r made it out. it may have been moved to a 450-500x or a 350-500r.
i would have to say following history this is most likely the reason none of them made the trek to full sales here.
BTW that asshat also caused many rifts. ever wonder why we ever get the coolest models of a specific car such as the ford cosworth models? Because of his personal vendetta and refusal to accent he F-ed up as a parent and did not properly protect his child tried to blame someone else for his stupidity, all manufacturers now are weary of putting anything decent into the US for fear of retribution. the US district courts also were dead wrong in what they did. Never should they have interfere with this product. if people were worried then let the sales show it. don't let the government get involved. truth is we lived in a time where people felt it was OK to do whatever with disregard to safety and rules despite the possible repercussions. The biggest issue is that still exists today. people still refuse to accept responsibility for their actions or lack there of. until we learn to say "it was my own stupid fault" our country will continue to decline in value and continue to turn into turmoil. in my mind that was the shot heard around the world for the decline of our grate nation. our values ended that day in my mind. it was now legally ok to say it is someone Else's fault when i screwed yo and got hurt. never mind i have no experience, ride w/o any type of safety gear in flip-flops and drunk as a skunk. Bad Honda Bad for putting together a machine w/o the intelligence to deny me usage when intoxicated or unsafe.

/end rant

sorry but it;s that type of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro is see every day even at work and it pisses me off. if you screw up. deal with it admit it and fix it..

[slashfan7964]

I agree it is BS. I wish us trike riders weren't penalized for that garage. But I'm 18, and this all happened before my time.

I agree about the model change thing. I mentioned something along those lines above when I said the may have been in development a bit longer than the rest, and production started late. Then production cut off, so quantities were extremely limited.



Anyways, the big confirmation video is uploading to YouTube as we speak. Sit tight. About halfway through he put me on hold so you'll have to skip over like 3 minutes. I left it in on purpose so you know the call was obviously legit.






Here's a little snipit word for word:


*On Hold*

Honda Tech: "Sir?"
Me: "Yes I'm here."
Honda Tech: "Yeah thanks for your patience."
Me: "Yeah no problem."
Honda Tech: "So....it may have been manufactured in Canada but because of the year of the bike I wouldn't be able to like, I wouldn't be able to have any like paperwork confirming that it was...where it was manufactured, only would I be able to do that if you have like a VIN of the particular bike. I could check in the system for that and probably find out where that was manufactured and sold."
Me: "So you're basically saying, you don't have any documentation on it, you're just saying that the only way you'd be able to find anything out is if I supplied a VIN number correct?"
Honda Tech: " That's right, yeah."
Me: "Hmm. See that's the dilemma *laughs*....We're trying to find out if that bike was actually produced...I don't know if anybody actually owns one *laughs*"
Honda Tech: "It was produced but for me to"
Me: "Oh, it was, it was!?"
Honda Tech: "Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it was produced but to find any information on it I would need a VIN number"
Me: "Oh ok..oh ok....So um you're saying, alright so um it was a full bike that was produced and it was sold in Canada correct?"
Honda Tech: "That's correct."
Me: "Ok, um did you happen to find any production numbers on it to give us an idea of it's rarity or...because its"
Honda Tech: "That's what I'm saying sir with like the age of this, this bike, to find out any information like there's no one here that's been working here that long."
Me: "Oh ok."
Honda Tech: "Paperwork for that long is mostly likely gone. I was just speaking with probably one of the older; the longest service rep here..."
Me: "Mhmm"
Honda Tech: "...and he's like he doesn't even know where to start looking for that information. The best thing to find that information would be a VIN. We'd be able to kinda pull it up and kinda track it that way once we find specifically where it was manufactured in the system...sorry not in the system in like Canada or America and then..."
Me: "Mhmm"
Honda Tech: "...what have you. Because it could have been, it could have been manufactured in the US and imported into Canada like for a couple customers you know what I mean so"




Rest will be in the video :)

That's word for word.

[slashfan7964]

VIDEO LIVE!!!

Confirmation starts at 12 minutes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8nRv8AIYF8

[kzr800]

Awesome research....keep digging, this is getting good.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I would ad this small bit of my hunch on the topic of possible new model R's and X's.

The 250r lived on 3 more years in the TRX platform. 2 reasons I seriously doubt bigger mills were in the works for the 250r in the near future at that point.

#1: The R's were made for the racing circuit, 250cc was the main event and if my limited understanding of the racing scene back in those days is correct, they had a displacement limit of something like 265cc. (any racers from back in the day please feel free to correct me if my inference is wrong)

#2: If they were at the point of releasing ATC 250r's with larger mills for '87, one would assume we would have seen those mills in the TRX.

As far as the 350x... Again, I would assume we would have seen bigger mills show up in the Honda sport quad line-up if they were on the verge of releasing those new models in the ATC. In fact, we didn't see a performance thumper larger than the old 350x till 1998 with the release of the 400ex.

Seems as though there was a witch-hunt against performance oriented models almost as intense as the witch-hunt against the trikes.. Despite the racing still going on, the TRX250r, Quadracers and Tecate-4 all bit the dust. Yamaha got out of the 250 2-stroke class all together when they quit with the Tri-Z. It was as if they gave up on ATV racing all together. Anyone else remember how BORING every ATV magazine was throughout most of the 1990's as far as new production sport/race ATV's? The racers were all still running R's and Quadracers on the tracks long after the demise of both.


This is just my opinion and in no way do I imply I have seen this in black and white or otherwise.

[atc007]

That is some good work Slash. If you're still in school, you get a ,,A + :).. I'll end there :) :)

[Ghostv2]

Well this has been so far that i have seen the best effort to digging up some information since i have been here. So great work slashfan, props to you.
Now i just plan on sitting back and watching the outcome. Now all of this was before my time but what RIDE-RED-250r says is what makes the most sense here.

Cant you just make up a VIN # and see if something turns up? We know what 85 numbers were, what 86 250r numbers were, cant you just make an educated guess as to what an early production 87 250r number would be?

This is taken from http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/222-MIA-87-Honda-250R-350X Cant you do something with this? Check out all the other numbers, maybe he can look something up.
"And then, we have this little gem in the rough thanks to forum member Jesse (hrc200x on the forum). For 10 points, can anyone establish whats wrong with this picture? Anybody? Bueller? Nope? So here is the scoop. Like the product codes I mentioned above, all the 3rd generation 250Rs start with TB06E as part of the serial number for the engine. You can clearly see the letters casted into the case above the stamped/riveted portion. The only thing "wrong" with this picture is the fact that the 85-86 ATC250R's did not start with 800~ on the stamped plate. They started with 240~ (1985) and 250~ (1986). Your saying "Well, that's just a TRX250R case then". Not so fast, because the TRX250R's have a different casting in their cases. They have TE12E ('86-'87), and TE06E ('88-'89). Here's the best part though, according to the Honda Motorcycle Identification Guide, that I referenced above, the serial # for 1987 year model TRX250R would be TE12E-800~. Did you catch that? That number on the case pictured above has the first half of an ATC vin (TB06E) and the last half of an '87 model TRX vin (800~). Obviously, we do not have a printed guide to reference 1987 year model ATC250R numbers with, but that is an extremely logical way for one to be formatted. You can full size the picture and check it out for yourself, but Jesse tells me the VIN reads: TBO6E-8006250"



*On the side not, imagine if you go to Japan and a girl tells you her number and walks away, you are SCREWED, thats 14 digits. I cant even remember my familys birthdays let alone that.

[kzr800]

I would ad this small bit of my hunch on the topic of possible new model R's and X's.

The 250r lived on 3 more years in the TRX platform. 2 reasons I seriously doubt bigger mills were in the works for the 250r in the near future at that point.

#1: The R's were made for the racing circuit, 250cc was the main event and if my limited understanding of the racing scene back in those days is correct, they had a displacement limit of something like 265cc. (any racers from back in the day please feel free to correct me if my inference is wrong)

#2: If they were at the point of releasing ATC 250r's with larger mills for '87, one would assume we would have seen those mills in the TRX.

As far as the 350x... Again, I would assume we would have seen bigger mills show up in the Honda sport quad line-up if they were on the verge of releasing those new models in the ATC. In fact, we didn't see a performance thumper larger than the old 350x till 1998 with the release of the 400ex.

Seems as though there was a witch-hunt against performance oriented models almost as intense as the witch-hunt against the trikes.. Despite the racing still going on, the TRX250r, Quadracers and Tecate-4 all bit the dust. Yamaha got out of the 250 2-stroke class all together when they quit with the Tri-Z. It was as if they gave up on ATV racing all together. Anyone else remember how BORING every ATV magazine was throughout most of the 1990's as far as new production sport/race ATV's? The racers were all still running R's and Quadracers on the tracks long after the demise of both.


This is just my opinion and in no way do I imply I have seen this in black and white or otherwise.

I like your thinking, very level headed and good use of common sense.

[kzr800]

That is some good work Slash. If you're still in school, you get a ,,A + :).. I'll end there :) :)

Agreed, good job.....Please keep digging. Who knows this may turn into a sticky?

[slashfan7964]

Thanks for the support everyone, I will have my full response when I can get on the computer for a bit. Right now I just want to let you all know I will e uploading the other video after I edit out my personal information for privacy reasons. After this, I will attempt to get in contact with Honda Japan to see what I can find. Right now, things are looking up with 2 sources directly from Honda claiming their existence. Other than this, I probably won't be able to find much more information on them so this is probably the best you'll ever get until someone actually locates a physical example now that we know they were indeed built and sold by Honda. As far as the VIN number supplied on the engine cylinder, its worth a shot but I don't think it will go far due to them likely wanting a number off a frame. I will give it a try. This is a very big day in three wheeling history.

The hunt is on!

[6speedthumper]

Very cool Slash! Keep it up dude!

Ride-Red, ditto on the atv scene through the 90s. Talk about boring. Also, I agree with your opinion on the displacement size of the bikes. You WOULD think that a larger mill would have been carried over into the TRX platform, IF Honda had one in the works.

Here's some more food for thought; Honda had a kickass engine with the 350x, it has now been confirmed that they were produced in Canada, and a few other trike models were produced in 87 here in the U.S. That being said, why on earth didn't Honda put the 350x engine into the damn TRX250X!

Now, yes they had to watch their asses after the whole "ban", but, that ban was mainly for 3 wheelers, and the 250R powerplant carried over for several years AFTER the "ban" in the TRX chassis. Even the mighty Quadzilla lasted until I believe 1990 (correct me if I'm wrong). So, if these two beasts of engines were continued to be built after the "ban"; and the Banshee's crazy power twin was lasted for 20 years; why put that teeny tiny 250cc mill in the TRX-X? It's not like everyone wasn't swapping them into the damn thing anyway!

Also agreed totally with the RANT from earlier about our country and it's downfall. I see and deal with it everyday at work as well.

[tripowersport]

Yep, lt500r 87-90. agreeably best stock atv!

[slashfan7964]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt the quad version of the 250r have less power than the ATC? That's what I've always heard.

[Ghostv2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt the quad version of the 250r have less power than the ATC? That's what I've always heard.
I think its more of a power to weight kinda thing. So i guess you could say that.

[slashfan7964]

I've always heard that after the trikes were discontinued, that the engine in the quad was factory detuned by Honda to produce less power so everyone would deem it safer. Interesting, that's for sure...

I find it funny when people talk about how fast the 250R quads are and I'm silently thinking in my head "if only you knew what the 3 wheeled version could do" :lol:


Anyways, back on topic. I think it's great to finally have a confirmation that these machines do indeed exist (provided they all haven't been scraped). I would love to own an '87 R, or at least a look alike.

[threewheelin-feelin]

just in idea here. there was a member a couple years back that claimed to atleast have a 87 350x frame. he produced pics of the frame sticker and there is a video on youtube some where of the bike. i believe his name a packhamstruck of something like that. maybe try the vin on his frame if you can find it. i do believe the bike was sold to another member

[slashfan7964]

Ill take a look around for it. Do have any idea where to start looking? Could you provide me with some links?

[atc500x]

And what about the engine serial number from the possible 87R this page

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/222-MIA-87-Honda-250R-350X

Maybe they can find something this this number.....

[6speedthumper]

There is a vid on youtube of an 87 350x up in Canada. I believe the guys whole "caught" it on video where members on here.

[LastFoolerInVA]

My brother build an 87 350x replica bike & even had the frame sticker made to read "1987 350x"... the sticker doesn't confirm anything... you would need serial numbers...

[Ghostv2]

just in idea here. there was a member a couple years back that claimed to atleast have a 87 350x frame. he produced pics of the frame sticker and there is a video on youtube some where of the bike. i believe his name a packhamstruck of something like that. maybe try the vin on his frame if you can find it. i do believe the bike was sold to another member

It sucks there is not a member list anymore to look him up and find his threads he started. If he is not active anymore it'll probably be a little while of searching.

And what about the engine serial number from the possible 87R this page

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/222-MIA-87-Honda-250R-350X

Maybe they can find something this this number.....

I already suggested that on page one of this thread.

[New2Tri-Z]

Ill take a look around for it. Do have any idea where to start looking? Could you provide me with some links?

Slash, here is the link to the old packhamstruck thread they were talking about http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/24897-Project-350x-is-done-so-what-year-is-it. I dint see a VIN in there but dig around you might find some info.

[Ghostv2]

You know why dont we get together and put an end to all of this, i got an idea. Lets put a bounty on a 87 250r or 350x. The ONLY way to claim the bounty is to bring one of the bikes to Trikefest and have all of it verified by records or documentation or however way determined by the staff here on the forums. People can donate a dollar here and there and each year the bounty only rises. Once the word is out there that there is a reward for these missing bikes word will spread and maybe someone will come forth with one.

This will put an end to all the bull spit about not having detailed pictures, quality pictures, or pictures at all. The proof will be sitting in front of all the worlds trike experts for all to evaluate and express their opinion. If anyone else has any ideas, feel free to let us know. I think its an interesting idea, has yet to be refined, hopefully one of the staff members here would think about doing a thing like this.

If you cant supply physical evidence and have the provenance to back it up, you dont own one. You dont have a friend with one. Etc. If someone had such a substantial piece of machinery and cant make it to TF, clearly its not an 87. Hopefully when the bounty gets large enough, itll pay for the travel expenses and shipping fees and make it worth while.

[kzr800]

You know why dont we get together and put an end to all of this, i got an idea. Lets put a bounty on a 87 250r or 350x. The ONLY way to claim the bounty is to bring one of the bikes to Trikefest and have all of it verified by records or documentation or however way determined by the staff here on the forums. People can donate a dollar here and there and each year the bounty only rises. Once the word is out there that there is a reward for these missing bikes word will spread and maybe someone will come forth with one.

This will put an end to all the bull spit about not having detailed pictures, quality pictures, or pictures at all. The proof will be sitting in front of all the worlds trike experts for all to evaluate and express their opinion. If anyone else has any ideas, feel free to let us know. I think its an interesting idea, has yet to be refined, hopefully one of the staff members here would think about doing a thing like this.

If you cant supply physical evidence and have the provenance to back it up, you dont own one. You dont have a friend with one. Etc. If someone had such a substantial piece of machinery and cant make it to TF, clearly its not an 87. Hopefully when the bounty gets large enough, itll pay for the travel expenses and shipping fees and make it worth while.

Great idea....However, at this point if anyone had something in their possession, they would come forward for just the bragging rights. If I had a 1987 250R, I would pimp that B!TCH out...LOL. A few hundred bucks per ride, and your wife / girlfriend won't leave you for it either.

[slashfan7964]

Thanks again for the support guys, I will continue with my search. It's driving me quite nuts haha. I would really like to see one in person, especially the R, as the white plastics are something I'm a sucker for on old school ATC's.

I like the idea of a bounty, that sounds pretty neat. I don't know if it would actually work though.

[6speedthumper]

The 87 X is sweet lookin too. I can dig the red rear mud flap!

[slashfan7964]

I agree!! My dream bike is an '86 X, but one made to look like an '87 with keyed ignition would be lovely!!

[gus]

im going off subject here but what about the 88 big red ?

[Bren_downe]

im going off subject here but what about the 88 big red ?

What about it?
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/241-88-ATC250ES-Big-Red

[threewheelin-feelin]

the video of the 87 350x in canada is packhamstrucks old bike. you could try contacting that guy thrue youtube. maybe he wouldnt mind giving his vin number

[sp8twn]

packhamstrucks old bike is not a 87 its a 86 with swapped vin# so keep looking guys!!!
http://youtu.be/ku0kollIhqE
the video of the 87 350x in canada is packhamstrucks old bike. you could try contacting that guy thrue youtube. maybe he wouldnt mind giving his vin number

[tapper190]

packhamstrucks old bike is not a 87 its a 86 with swapped vin# so keep looking guys!!!
http://youtu.be/ku0kollIhqE
I still think its an '87, lol. As the search continues...

[Dirtcrasher]

No mudflap and why would a keyed ignition be removed??

[slashfan7964]

Sorry about the lack of updates, I've been pretty busy lately.

[Mr. Clean]

This is what comes to mind when this topic comes up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3iFJpGJiug

[samuraiguys]

Find me an 86 Honda Odyssey Fl350 LOL, I have an 85 and that's the only year they made.. weird tho because on some parts ive ordered they say 85-86 on them...

[ylwgtr]

Here....knock yourself out......TB060-HK600050 onwards.....by the way....im a non beleiver....youd have better luck finding bigfoot

180896

[slashfan7964]

I quite like that picture...where'd you get it?


You guys can believe what you want but I got confirmation from Honda Canada...so whatever.

[KASEY]

conformation is just someones word,,, until I see a OEM year decal and serial number unmolested on a neck I still call,BS ,,,

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060220114003/uncyclopedia/images/9/91/BS_Meter_some.jpg

[ylwgtr]

my picture?Its off my HONDA EPC....dealers only disc....aparently we got them in australia according to the EPC......(which never happened) It also has the 87 atc250r parts fiche

[Tecate250]

OMG. This is till going on? Im starting th think its america pride that holds people from believeing. After all They did ban them befor we did. Oh and the 1988 big red dosent exsist either. SOme people need to get a life when it comes to threads like this. Stop hateing start believeing.

[slashfan7964]

I just got a comment on my video where the guy called Honda Canada Customer Service and they told him that many people have been calling asking for answers and he said they told him there was only 200 total models, between both the 250R and 350X that were sold in Canada before they were banned there as well. This matches was I was told all those months back.

This is presuming they were actually entirely sold and not disassembled and shipped back. If they were indeed disassembled and shipped back, this could explain various parts that have gotten out on Ebay, but why no actual full machine has ever been seen.

This would fit given the low production numbers of SX's, Big Reds and 200X's that were also sold this year. The R and 350X have always sold in less quantities as far as I know.

[fabiodriven]

A YouTube comment! Break out the confetti boys! That's confirmation enough for me!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/ferrow/noonegives.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ferrow/media/noonegives.jpg.html)

[slashfan7964]

A YouTube comment! Break out the confetti boys! That's confirmation enough for me!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/ferrow/noonegives.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ferrow/media/noonegives.jpg.html)



Its more of a lead than anything else right now. Keeps hopes alive :)

I'm getting to the bottom of this. Not sure what I have to do, but I'm trying.

That said, no need to be rude about it. At the end of the day, I care, and I'm just posting information I deem relevant here. Wether or not you care is entirely your own opinion but you don't need to post that to get your point across.

[Ghostv2]

People can go to church every sunday and ramble on about jesus.
Why cant he ramble on about some trikes?

Point is, keep faith alive.

Probably more evidence of the 87's existing too. :lol: (Sorry if that offends anyone)

[slashfan7964]

People can go to church every sunday and ramble on about jesus.
Why cant he ramble on about some trikes?

Point is, keep faith alive.

Probably more evidence of the 87's existing too. :lol: (Sorry if that offends anyone)

Well considering his story matches up (or at least is similar) to what I've been told and what various resources around the web I'd say that's at least something to go on.

I mean, the list of credible evidence is somewhat large. We have the various plastics and seat that have gotten out, engine vin codes, part numbers and manuals for models "never built", that photo from the Honda dealership someone posted in this thread confirming where they were sold, Honda Canada told me they were sold (really, think about that. What reason do they have to lie? If anything, you'd think they would say they don't exist, not to admit they had them!). There's more as well.

We might never see a VIN or a complete bike, but the amount of evidence we have leads me to believe there was at least something in production way back when.

____________

[fabiodriven]

Canadian bikes have reflectors.

[slashfan7964]

Canadian bikes have reflectors.

Ah right, forgot about that. I'll take that down. Thanks.

Right now I'm searching for an apart 3&4 Wheel Action that supposedly had an article on the 87 R.

I'm reading that Honda was possibly going to introduce the same engine as the 86 R, but as a power valved version. I'm also reading that the engine that was potentially used in the 1987 could have been a later TRX style engine and possibly had a black frame 9not sure on this). Apparently the 350X never made it to production, but not sure; lot of conflicting evidence. I'm also reading there may have been a ATC 250X in development that could have potentially replaced the 200X later on and this machine went on to be the TRX 250X.

[El Camexican]

Canadian bikes have reflectors.

Yep, for about 5 minutes.

[stoshu]

Yep, for about 5 minutes.
I have a box full of em. Eh.

[jakep53]

I have been researching after I seen this thread (yesterday lol) and I really don't think it was sold in Canada I'd say the most likely place if they were ever sold was Europe, since that was where most of the last model trikes went to and all the parts schematics that I have found say their was only a European model, but I can not find anything on the 87 350x but I also found out about the 86/87 125 if you look on this website it has manuals for 85 atc 500r,87 350x,87 250r http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-moto-model-Autres+Mod-250-1987.html so that leads me to believe that all these models were produced and sold for a very short amount of time as prototypes even the 500r and I think your best bet is searching in Europe!!http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-moto-model-Autres+Mod-250-1987.html

[DohcBikes]

Sorry Slash my dude, but I think they make an emoticon for this......wait let me see if I can find it......


X owner

[slashfan7964]

That a different caption. First time I've seen that before. Thanks!

[Zach]

I really dont understand people coming here to comment with really negative remarks. If you dont like something on the forum dont read it, why come into someones thread and make a douche bag remark? I think anything that keeps the talk about 3 wheelers alive is a great discussion. Never understood people having to come in and think it shows they are smart or have big internet balls by coming in and being a jerk. I for one appreciate all the leg work that is going on here. Maybe we will get some new information we never had before.

[slashfan7964]

I really dont understand people coming here to comment with really negative remarks. If you dont like something on the forum dont read it, why come into someones thread and make a douche bag remark? I think anything that keeps the talk about 3 wheelers alive is a great discussion. Never understood people having to come in and think it shows they are smart or have big internet balls by coming in and being a jerk. I for one appreciate all the leg work that is going on here. Maybe we will get some new information we never had before.

:D

Glad to know all this is appreciated. I will get to the bottom of this someday.

[Afrothunderkat]

With all this bitching I thought I was on kitchenworld.org At least the kid is trying. Hes enthusiastic about trikes.

As fellow enthusiasts you should welcome threads like these. Let the kid enjoy his hobby.

[DohcBikes]

I think Slash has handled the ribbing very well. I think most of us are joking around, and I think Slash is a smart enough guy to get that by now......

Thanks Slash. I doubt there's anyone here that truly dislikes your research efforts, and I hope you find even more info than you have already provided us with. Good work bro.

[slashfan7964]

I think Slash has handled the ribbing very well. I think most of us are joking around, and I think Slash is a smart enough guy to get that by now......

Thanks Slash. I doubt there's anyone here that truly dislikes your research efforts, and I hope you find even more info than you have already provided us with. Good work bro.

Even if you weren't, I'm pretty used to it so I just ignore it :D

Thanks though. I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of this. I'd love to actually see a machine, but even if that doesn't happen, at least I've dug up some more.

[kzr800]

Even if you weren't, I'm pretty used to it so I just ignore it :D

Thanks though. I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of this. I'd love to actually see a machine, but even if that doesn't happen, at least I've dug up some more.

I like your attitude.....Keep up the good work, and ignore the people who have nothing positive to say. It is a good life lesson far and beyond this website.

[slashfan7964]

Found these from a few years back posted here on the boards. Not my photos! Just thought I'd re-share them.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48116&d=1181250196
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48117&d=1181251559

____________

I've just pieced together something.

Check out the links in this quote...


I have been researching after I seen this thread (yesterday lol) and I really don't think it was sold in Canada I'd say the most likely place if they were ever sold was Europe, since that was where most of the last model trikes went to and all the parts schematics that I have found say their was only a European model, but I can not find anything on the 87 350x but I also found out about the 86/87 125 if you look on this website it has manuals for 85 atc 500r,87 350x,87 250r http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-moto-model-Autres+Mod-250-1987.html so that leads me to believe that all these models were produced and sold for a very short amount of time as prototypes even the 500r and I think your best bet is searching in Europe!!http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-moto-model-Autres+Mod-250-1987.html

the serial numbers given in the links for the 1987 250R match the ones given in this photo below. Specifically all the TB06's, but then there is also a frame number in a link found here:

http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/moto-honda-identification-ATC250RH-117.html

that matches perfectly with the frame number from the C-area code Canada number (the number being "TB060*HK600050"). These sources are unrelated and no affiliated with each other in any way.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180896&d=1384771922


Now check this engine number out from the main article on 3WW's home page:

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87410&d=1391611233&stc=1

We have a 3-way match with physical evidence....

[fabiodriven]

That's a little more convincing.

[Billy Golightly]

There have been selective pieces of the 87s out. I think probably atleast a few of the "school" engines were probably originally destined for 87 machines, as evidence by that engine vin tag thats from the article on the main page. The Japanese bike with the 87 plastics is another example. There is pretty solid evidence of 87 specific parts and pieces being in the wild - whole machines definitely up for debate. http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/222-MIA-87-Honda-250R-350X for those of you that haven't read it or need a refresher

[slashfan7964]

There have been selective pieces of the 87s out. I think probably atleast a few of the "school" engines were probably originally destined for 87 machines, as evidence by that engine vin tag thats from the article on the main page. The Japanese bike with the 87 plastics is another example. There is pretty solid evidence of 87 specific parts and pieces being in the wild - whole machines definitely up for debate. http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/222-MIA-87-Honda-250R-350X for those of you that haven't read it or need a refresher

I'm just waiting for something else to come popping up.

I should give Honda a call and see if they can run any of these serial numbers to see if I can possibly get any new information out of them. I know I was specifically asked for VIN's, but these are all we have to go on right now. They seem to be cooperative overall. I just wish they were less uptight about their history, but they seem to be a little more relaxed these days.


Billy if it's not too much of a hassle, do you think you could add some of this stuff to the main article (or link to this thread)? I know I don't have much conclusive stuff but I am trying.

[jakep53]

wow some good detective work there man I knew I could help ot somehow lol

[Billy Golightly]

I also have some pictures of an 87 HA2 cylinder as well. HA2 being the ATC product code of course.

[slashfan7964]

If it's not a hassle, could you post them up?

[Billy Golightly]

These pictures came from Tim Kinjerski, who emailed them to me several months ago after seeing the 87's page. I just haven't gotten stopped and put them on the page, but here they are.

191426191425191424

[slashfan7964]

That's awesome! Thanks! Good to have more potential proof.

[petesatc]

the 87R used the 87 TRX engine.....

[slashfan7964]

the 87R used the 87 TRX engine.....

How do you know this?

[slashfan7964]

This was just posted on Facebook. The guy claims it's his new registration for a 250R. Notice the year. "87". He says it's the first time it's ever been registered...

I'm trying to get him to post photos of the machine and then the VIN and tags etc. For now, this will have to suffice.

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/slashfan7964/10246364_643105322424628_3911635724825790331_n_zps 99c9b9ee.jpg

[M.Pargiello]

I'll bet its just a big red :)

[slashfan7964]

I'll bet its just a big red :)

Wouldn't that be funny :lol:

I'm a bit skeptical, but he says it's a 250R. So we will have to wait and see. If it's bogus, I'll pull that down. Right now, it's something to think about.

[petesatc]

How do you know this?

because i have parts manuals for 87 250R AND 87 350X
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/44933-Possible-87-250R-found-(UPDATED)-7-31-06/page3

[slashfan7964]

It says its red.Werent the 87-350x and 250r white.Iv had people tell me all the time they have a 250r and when I go and see its a big red or 250sx. I was at a drag race few years ago and some guys saw my 82 250r and thought it was a 185s. When clearly on the gas tank in big red letters it says 250R.

That's what I said, unless the did it by the frame color and not plastics.

Like I said, I am skeptical.

[slashfan7964]

Found this new brochure image for 1987 models. Look at the signs.

http://www.offroadvintage.com/USERIMAGES/TRX_ATC_1987_CA_1(1).jpg

[petesatc]

yep this is the inside of that brochure at the bottom
http://www.offroadvintage.com/Honda-ATC250R(1521208).htm

[El Camexican]

Notice that all the ATC signs are pointing one way (1986?) and all the Fourtrax signs are pointing the other way (1987?)

That Ontario registration is a teaser, Why else would he have only photographed a partial section?

[slashfan7964]

yep this is the inside of that brochure at the bottom
http://www.offroadvintage.com/Honda-ATC250R(1521208).htm

Yup that's where I found it. Never seen it before, so I figured I'd share.

[Xhumeka]

That Ontario registration is a teaser, Why else would he have only photographed a partial section?

Yeah, exactly - so what's the update on this? Why would the guy have no problem taking a picture of his ownership, but he can't get you a picture of the neck of the frame?

[Mr. Clean]

These pictures came from Tim Kinjerski, who emailed them to me several months ago after seeing the 87's page. I just haven't gotten stopped and put them on the page, but here they are.

191426191425191424

What is the significance of the 87 cylinder? I have one freshly warmed over from Jason Hall that has HA2 and 87 stamped in the sleeve that came from a TRX250r? What makes it possibly an 87 ATC cylinder?

[Marty]

Mike I could be wrong but I read that most of cylinders produced for the 1988-1989 trx 250R's were mass produced by honda in 1987, I have a few 88 complete motors and all of them have the 87; HA2 marks on the skirts. I have NEVER seen a cylinder from an 88 or 89 with the date code of 88 or 89 on cylinder skirts. My personal 2 1988 riders as well have the ha2 87 stamp on cylinders.
The question I have is anyone doing a top end on a 1989 trx 250r please check bottom of cylinder skirt and check to see if anyone has a date code of 1988 or 1989 now those will be rare.

[wolfspider]

What is the significance of the 87 cylinder? I have one freshly warmed over from Jason Hall that has HA2 and 87 stamped in the sleeve that came from a TRX250r? What makes it possibly an 87 ATC cylinder?

ha2 is the honda parts code for atc250r, hb9 i think is the parts code for trx250r

[Billy Golightly]

ha2 is the honda parts code for atc250r, hb9 i think is the parts code for trx250r

Right. HA2 Is Specific to the ATC 250R.

HB9 is the TRX250R product/Parts code

[Mosh]

What is the significance of the 87 cylinder? I have one freshly warmed over from Jason Hall that has HA2 and 87 stamped in the sleeve that came from a TRX250r? What makes it possibly an 87 ATC cylinder?

According to the "Man" the 87 R cylinders had more aggressive porting, and from what I gather elsewhere slightly larger intake volume vs any other year.


we use the "88" CR Cage with Boyesen Reeds,Honda Part No. 14100-KS7-831
and the "87" Cyl. was the First Long Rod Set up... the Porting is NICE !!
Hey Raffa ...... i'm "GITT'N" Ready for TF07 !! :naughty:

[Mr. Clean]

Right. HA2 Is Specific to the ATC 250R.

HB9 is the TRX250R product/Parts code

Queso I have a cylinder I will take pictures of tonight. I bought this cylinder a number of years ago from EBAY.



According to the "Man" the 87 R cylinders had more aggressive porting, and from what I gather elsewhere slightly larger intake volume vs any other year.

Very cool, thanks for the information Mosh!! I bought the cylinder I am referring to on Ronnies recommendation and it was at his shop for him to warm over. I got it back from Nathan and last year at the Invasion I spoke with Jason Hall and he agreed to warm it over and engrave "Yamahondaman" on the side. Got is last week and it looks dynamite. As promised pics tonight.

[Mosh]

IMO, Ronnie and Jason may know(n) the R's more than anyone else out there for squeezing stupid power from stock configurations.

[Mr. Clean]

Pics as promised. I reserve my judgement as this being an ATC cylinder versus TRX, the previous owner told me it came from an 87 TRX to be replaced with big bore cylinder.

[Billy Golightly]

Yes, Ronnie always liked the 87 cylinders the best, one of the things he pointed out to me is the ribs in the transfer tunnels were shaped differently than other years.

In the grand scheme of things, I have no doubt Honda recycled some of these ATC parts onto TRX's, since it was right in the time frame when everything was going belly up. This makes the I think its 3rd one I've seen before now with the ATC product code and then the 87 year stamp.

[slashfan7964]

It makes me wonder just how much of the TRX stuff would have made it into the ATC really.

[slashfan7964]

Never before seen parts catalog for the 1987 250R-H model. Courtesy of Mike Palmgren from Vintage Motorsports and John MacDonald of Macworth Vintage ATV's.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10520674_557245217753641_3182081124294622314_o.jpg
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10694331_557245297753633_1809477325154680846_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10845884_557245264420303_6505175182363682770_o.jpg
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/1498873_557245251086971_909742445045825162_o.jpg
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10873456_557245244420305_4486077948655618719_o.jpg
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10845888_557245261086970_8341231531885275775_o.jpg

[RIDE-RED 250r]

But, just like much of a given model years production actually takes place the calendar year prior, wouldn't it be safe to assume parts catalogs would be printed well in advance also???

Interesting material for sure Slash.. But in my mind it doesn't equate to a certainty of actual '87 model year trikes being out there...

Any developments on that title you posted a pic of awhile back???

VIN's will be the ultimate proof...

[El Camexican]

Don't ya just love those classic Canadian reflectors on every model? I wonder how many millions of lives they've saved over the years:lol:


Good leg work Slash, don't give up, it could still happen.. Last year while up North I asked around to some of my buddies if they still had any 1987 Honda brochures or a recollection of the 87 and none could find or remember one, but at least 3 of them recalled seeing a sasquatch that year.;)

[Darius1502]

Between Mike and John if anyone can find some '87 parts or a full '87 bike its these guys!! We are in great hands!! Nice work gentlemen!!

[Buster Brown]

I have the microfiche that includes the '87 ATC 250R. Don't have a reader machine, but I'm looking into digitizing the fiche to file. Still doesn't mean any were actually built...?? :( I kinda think it would be interesting to see all the updates and part numbers. Like the '87 airbox, it received a resonator tube (bottle) to lessen intake noise levels similar to the TRX in '87.


http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp334/k10seibel/Example%20ATV%20Pics%20and%20Info/20141218_094043.jpg

[slashfan7964]

Mike said he "thinks he might of found Sasquatch." Stay tuned, I'm digging for information.

[slashfan7964]

$50,000 reward to anyone who can prove the 1987 250R exists. There's some interesting comments from a former Honda employee who says they did indeed sell them.

This would line up with what Honda Canada told me over the phone.


http://www.trx250r.net/forum/lounge/29257-50-000-reward.html

[Samjp22]

Are you bringing 50k to TF if someone finds one and brings it haha :lol:

[Darius1502]

Now where is that same parts catalog but for the 350X 1987?

[petesatc]

Yes i have both 87R and 87 350X manuals, found them 10 years ago and been looking for parts even since....

[88 Turbo Coupe]

I cant believe after almost 30 years that one of these ATC's haven't popped up... Some where. Lets all pray for a miracle.

[Darius1502]

Yes i have both 87R and 87 350X manuals, found them 10 years ago and been looking for parts even since....

Pete strange they don't have a pic of the '87 350x like they do of the '87 R?

[petesatc]

Pete strange they don't have a pic of the '87 350x like they do of the '87 R?
Not that strange quite a few part books cover all the model years but sometimes only two pics when there was three and four model years covered....

I'm not sure the 87 350X even made it out of Japan ......there has been 87R parts been found over the years (white plastics,decals,seat) but nothing from the 350x so i got a feeling that one was chopped at the factory....

[slashfan7964]

At this point, since it's been 30 years, there is a very real possibility we might never see a complete machine. Reason being because of what happened but also because what was compatible with earlier models (since I get the feeling 87s were just cosmetic changes) were probably resold as replacement OEM stuff that for all we know could have been mostly used up 25 years ago.

There might have been a few that slipped out back in the day, but these days it's really impossible to tell. We may never know. But to say they didn't exist at all is blasphemy in my opinion, at least in the case of the 250R. There is a ton of indisputable evidence that Honda was building them.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Agree with that Slash....

But I fear that the very limited numbers and time has probably all but done in the chances of finding a confirmed '87.... :(

[petesatc]

We know they did exist well the 87R anyways...Dean Kirsten who worked for 3wheeling magazine rode one in 86 so they did exist the question is did a few slip through the net in late 86 .....

[Darius1502]

Can we get Dean on comment on what was going on when he rode that '87? Impressions etc. If it did in fact exist then more must be out there!

[wolfspider]

we found those manuals back in 2005, so not `never seen before` but keep digging you`re doing a great job.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/43104-87-250r-Parts-Manual-Found!!!!?highlight=wolfspider

[kzr800]

While the 1987 250R may still be in question, I think it is very cool what has been found. Keep up the hard work and keep us posted.

[slashfan7964]

Does anyone know if Dean is invited/going to show at 3 Wheeler Week in March? If so, someone should see if we can get him to comment on it.

[Darius1502]

I reached out to Phil Beckman on Facebook he was an editor and def. a photographer at Dirt Wheels in the early to mid 80's. Waiting to ask if he ever saw any '87s'.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/philbeckman

Technical Editor
Wright Publishing
1985 – 1989 (4 years)

Handled writing and photography for 3Wheeling Magazine (which later changed its name to ATV Sports).
Editor
Hi-Torque Publications
1981 – 1985 (4 years)

Editorial writing/reporting and photography for Dirt Wheels and 3&4 Wheel Action Magazines.

[slashfan7964]

Keep me informed :)

[88 Turbo Coupe]

Should be interesting

[atc500x]

Already be seen,but someone post this picture of his brochure he got in the 80's to his local dealer.In quebec.....

[Darius1502]

That is way cool...because I can see the front and the back! Ive just seen the picture but not the whole brochure like that.

Can someone in Canada go and ask Honda dealers that were around in 1987 if they sold any '87 R's? Or even look in their records from Honda or 1987 to see if they got or sold any?

Tell them its a research project...BECAUSE IT IS! :)

[Samjp22]

ill do some digging in my spare time

[Darius1502]

ill do some digging in my spare time

Awesome...maybe showing them a picture of that brochure will get attention. I can see these dealers saying oh they stopped making them in '87.

[slashfan7964]

That is way cool...because I can see the front and the back! Ive just seen the picture but not the whole brochure like that.

Can someone in Canada go and ask Honda dealers that were around in 1987 if they sold any '87 R's? Or even look in their records from Honda or 1987 to see if they got or sold any?

Tell them its a research project...BECAUSE IT IS! :)

In this thread I spoke with Honda Canada personally it was was confirmed they sold them; they had records of them being sold at various dealers.

[Samjp22]

They happen to know those dealers?

[slashfan7964]

They happen to know those dealers?

They must have some kind of records as you'd think Honda would know if they sold them because the money has to go somewhere. Most likely each individual sale would have been logged. Especially since they gave me a ballpark figure of about 100 or less sold per model.

[El Camexican]

They must have some kind of records as you'd think Honda would know if they sold them because the money has to go somewhere. Most likely each individual sale would have been logged. Especially since they gave me a ballpark figure of about 100 or less sold per model.

Not to be pessimistic, but it is highly unlikely the dealers or import brokers would keep records longer than whatever the tax law requires.

Your best bet may be to contact the Manitoba, Ontario, or Quebec (got French?) departments of vehicle registration. I think they keep records forever. In the 1980's all trikes in Manitoba ridden on Crown land had to be registered with the province and have license plates and massive decals like the snowmobiles required. If a 1987 model was ever registered they would likely still have those records. However, I doubt they would ever tell you a ser# or an owners name, so it will be hard to prove anything, but it might give you a lead.

[slashfan7964]

Not to be pessimistic, but it is highly unlikely the dealers or import brokers would keep records longer than whatever the tax law requires.

Your best bet may be to contact the Manitoba, Ontario, or Quebec (got French?) departments of vehicle registration. I think they keep records forever. In the 1980's all trikes in Manitoba ridden on Crown land had to be registered with the province and have license plates and massive decals like the snowmobiles required. If a 1987 model was ever registered they would likely still have those records. However, I doubt they would ever tell you a ser# or an owners name, so it will be hard to prove anything, but it might give you a lead.
That's a great idea. I don't think the dealers would have kept records but I think Honda did and that's where I got the information. I'll see what I can dig up when I get a chance.