wtf am i doing wrong

[captain2207]

I'm convinced my pos 200s has a mind of its own.after tinkering with it I got it running.about 2 weeks ago my spark advancer decided it didn't want the dowel in there and lodged itself in between housing and advancer.I got another one from another member,put it on and rode it.now I'm not getting any fuel to plug.I literally have rechecked valve clearance and timing half a dozen times.I have take taken carb off numerous times and cleaned carb,and blew out with air.in between last ride and last night I have not done anything with it.any other info you may need to give a direction to go,post it up,I'm at end of my rope with this.one other pieces here,ill pull on rope a dozen times and I took off intake boot and its kinda moist with gas.thanks all,sorry had to vent.

[yaegerb]

Is fuel coming out of the bowl when you loosen the carb drain screw?

[captain2207]

Yes fuel is coming out of drain hole

[Ghostv2]

Im no engine expert but it could be something stupidly simple that was just overlooked. Like the gas cap vent closed creating a suction not allowing fuel to go through. Or something with the fuel lines. Check the little things, could be something easy.

[rg97]

Im no engine expert but it could be something stupidly simple that was just overlooked. Like the gas cap vent closed creating a suction not allowing fuel to go through. Or something with the fuel lines. Check the little things, could be something easy.
I thought about that too, but hes getting fuel to the carb but not to the cylinder... looks like oldskool83 and this guy have a similar situation:lol:
I would say check your valves and make sure that your cam is not in 180 degrees out of sync

[captain2207]

Fuel is coming out of petcock,and out of drain hole.its moist in the intake.valve is opening,I looked threw back of intake and in plug hole.I checked valve clearance,by putting on tdc,with it lined up on the "t"acording to manual.

[rg97]

So how do you know theres no fuel in the clyinder?

[captain2207]

After pulling it 5,679 times plug is bone dry.

[rg97]

well if the intake is wet and the cylinder is not, that indicates a valve problem, or somehow the cylinder is getting fuel but its not showing on the plug
have you tried giving it a shot of ether?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

Try blowing in the fuel tank at the gas cap. One day my auto x (with a 185 motor) all of a sudden died on me on a trail in the middle of winter, in the middle of nowhere. I could see gas in the clear paper element filter I installed, but I knew it must have run out of gas. I tried taking off the tank cap, no start, tried choke, no start, full throttle and pull, no start. Finally I blew into the vent hose (would be hard on 185 or 200s, with no vent hose) and gave her a pull. Fired right up. I could see a little fuel movement in the filter, but not a whole lot, it never filled completely. I have never had that problem since, and not sure exactly what happened, but I was sure grateful that I didn't get stranded on that trail that day.

[Ghostv2]

After pulling it 5,679 times plug is bone dry.
Nothing is more frustrating than that. When it wont start and you sit there pulling it 100 times.

[yaegerb]

When you reset your timing did you ensure that the vertical line on the little black plastic box on the base plate with the vertical line on the rotor are in line with the "F " on the flywheel showing through the viewing hole? Once those are in line are they both pointing at about 12 o’clock?

[Dirtcrasher]

At TDC on the compression stroke and ready to fire, the lobes of the cam should be down and no pressure on the rockers or you are 180 out.

[tripowersport]

did some how the pulse generator move 180 from its base that is held on with 2 spring's? there is a dot on both you have to line up with the spring's off,I had the same problem with fuel out in the air box and it was that for me anyway.

[tripowersport]

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/ATC200S%2084-86%20Shop%20Manual.pdf page 79...sorry I cant put the pic's on here.

[captain2207]

I have double,triple checked everything mentioned here.I'm done with it.ill part it out/sell as whole for monies for another one.if you need anything call or tex me 903-830-2422

[Dave8338]

Try blowing in the fuel tank at the gas cap. One day my auto x (with a 185 motor) all of a sudden died on me on a trail in the middle of winter, in the middle of nowhere. I could see gas in the clear paper element filter I installed, but I knew it must have run out of gas. I tried taking off the tank cap, no start, tried choke, no start, full throttle and pull, no start. Finally I blew into the vent hose (would be hard on 185 or 200s, with no vent hose) and gave her a pull. Fired right up. I could see a little fuel movement in the filter, but not a whole lot, it never filled completely. I have never had that problem since, and not sure exactly what happened, but I was sure grateful that I didn't get stranded on that trail that day.

Had that happen once on a dirt bike and the only thing I could think of, was that there was enough moisture in the fuel, that it froze in the filter while riding, preventing enough fuel flow to keep it running. After doing exactly what you mentioned, the thing fired right up and it never happened again.
My though is that while I was trying everything to get it started, there was enough heat off the engine that it melted the ice crystals in the filter. Just a guess...

[captain2207]

I have got gas coming out of petcock.I also have coming out drain in bottom of carb.something is not right,I can shine light into plug hole turn motor over and see light from back of head.I adjusted valves to .005 on tdc where rockers have play,I'm assuming that is compression stroke.jets and corresponding holes in carb are clear and free.what I don't get is I rode it after putting new spark advancer in,yes there is spark.

[rg97]

Seeing light when engine turning over means that valves are opening, but it could still be 180 out. just try taking off the cam screws, turning the cam 180 degrees, then screwing it back together

[6speedthumper]

The timing shouldn't be an issue if it were out 180*. This is a single over head cammed engine, with only two valves (not that valve count matters), and a single cylinder. Just like my warrior, and trx300. As soon as the crank rotates another 360* (one revolution) the piston will again be at TDC, and the timing marks will align. Remember, the crank makes two complete revolutions to the cam's one. So mechanical timing is a mute point. How the cdi works on that engine(it does run off the cam right?), I have no clue. I'm open to be educated about it.

Have you done a compression test? If the engine is very low on compression, it will be very low on vacuum. If it's low on vacuum, it is not going to be able to pull the air/fuel into the cylinder. If it can't pull the air/fuel into the cylinder, it has nothing to compress. If it has nothing to compress... you get the picture.

Try spraying some starting fluid into the cylinder. Either through the carb with throttle open, or, throw the spark plug hole. If it still fails to start, then you know it is a compression issue. Starting fluid is very volatile, if the engine has any kind of decent compression(and spark), it should start. Do not use you thumb as a compresion tester, buy/rent/borrow one.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Of course cam timing is a HUGE issue.

If he is 180 out it won't fire at the 180 degree compression/firing stroke, it would be firing at the exhaust stroke.

Once the mechanical timing is set, then it can be set to fire at that "T".

As far as compression, at the very least it should blow your thumb off without using a gauge.....

[captain2207]

Man ill try compression test but I had it running last weekend.that is what is getting to me.and I understand when I said I can see light it means valve is open.its just another piece of puzzle.and I did turn pulse generater?180* still nothing.ill tinker with it next day or two.

[tripowersport]

sorry it wouldn't let me reply to my post.

[tripowersport]

did some how the pulse generator move 180 from its base that is held on with 2 spring's? there is a dot on both you have to line up,I had the same problem with fuel out in the air box it would not get gas, it was that for me anyway. <----Doses any one this it could be this? I got a new pule generator one time at it wasn't lined up.

[6speedthumper]

An engine can lose compression at any moment really. It's like a heart attack. You won't know it till it happens.

DC, yes cam timing is a huge issue. But, when the piston is at TDC on the exhaust stroke, the T on the flywheel will still be aligned with the timing mark in the inspection hole. (hence why you need to be sure the valves are indeed closed when adjusting their lash, you could be on the exhaust stroke). You can literally take the timing chain off the cam sprocket, rotate the cam 180* so the lobes are down, so the valves will be closed, put the cam gear and chain back on, then start it up. The ignition system doesn't give a damn what the cam timing is, or if it was changed in the manner discribed above. All it needs is for the pickup and source coils to pass over the flywheel (again I'm not familiar with this bikes ignition system but this is how nearly all others work), and it will produce a spark. Matter of fact, it will produce a spark every time the piston reaches TDC, because the ignition system cares not/knows not what the cam's posistion is in relationship to the crank. All it knows is that the coils passed over the flywheel to produce a spark. Pretty much, these systems produce "waste spark" (like 4cylinders with 8 spark plugs). Now, if this had a cam and/or crank posistion sensor, then that would have some effect on it. But, that's beyond the scope of this posting.

[6speedthumper]

I should add that an engine does loose compression over it's life span. You may feel a lose of power when it is getting low. But, when it decides to give uo the ghost all together, it's anyone's guess. Just wanted to add that since you commented that it was running only last weekend.

[captain2207]

The compression will suck my thumb down and blow it back off.I'm going to go over it one more time in morning.ill keep you guys posted on my findings.thanks again guys for your responces.

[6speedthumper]

Well that's a good thing. But, get a hold of a compression tester to get an actual numerical reading. It can have low compression and still be able to suck your thumb down some and blow it back off. A compression test doesn't lie. The usuall rule of thumb is 120psi good MINIMUM compression. I have seen a few bikes with around 100psi and they were able to start and run. But, I have seen other bikes with the same compression simply refuse to start on their own, and need to be pull started to "pop off". I actually have a quad in the shop right now that tested with 109psi of compression, and it can just pop my thumb off the spark plug hole.

Why go through all this trouble? Gotta cover all the bases.

[Dirtcrasher]

An engine can lose compression at any moment really. It's like a heart attack. You won't know it till it happens.

DC, yes cam timing is a huge issue. But, when the piston is at TDC on the exhaust stroke, the T on the flywheel will still be aligned with the timing mark in the inspection hole. (hence why you need to be sure the valves are indeed closed when adjusting their lash, you could be on the exhaust stroke). You can literally take the timing chain off the cam sprocket, rotate the cam 180* so the lobes are down, so the valves will be closed, put the cam gear and chain back on, then start it up. The ignition system doesn't give a damn what the cam timing is, or if it was changed in the manner discribed above. All it needs is for the pickup and source coils to pass over the flywheel (again I'm not familiar with this bikes ignition system but this is how nearly all others work), and it will produce a spark. Matter of fact, it will produce a spark every time the piston reaches TDC, because the ignition system cares not/knows not what the cam's posistion is in relationship to the crank. All it knows is that the coils passed over the flywheel to produce a spark. Pretty much, these systems produce "waste spark" (like 4cylinders with 8 spark plugs). Now, if this had a cam and/or crank posistion sensor, then that would have some effect on it. But, that's beyond the scope of this posting.

See though, you have a complete understanding of that while others must go step by step or this happens..........

[6speedthumper]

True^^^, but I hope it educates people to more easily diagnose their problem. lol

[Dirtcrasher]

Sometimes I think we confuse them more. :lol:

[6speedthumper]

I know right! lol

[LastFoolerInVA]

try starting fluid!!!! if it still doesnt start.. it electrical!! not fuel related.. if its electrical, double check the woodruff (spelling) key is in the cam where the cdi is.. I bought a 85 200x with a fresh bore & in decent shape for $50.00-all because they guy who tried to rebuild it forgot to put the key in the cam & couldn't get it started: you see, the cdi determines the bike's ignition timing... there's a bolt on the cdi mechanical advance so you can tighten it down & it appears to be ok, but without the key on the cam the advancer thing will get out of timing very easily... & your bike will never run..

[MonkOFox]

I guess check the timing again like said before. Turn the flywheel by hand (counter-clockwise) until you see the intake valve go in and out, then keep turning it until you get to the line with the 'o' above it (left of the 'T'). That should put you at top of the compression stroke ready for fire. The 'O' on the cam sprocket should be lined up with the index mark on the valve cover at this point also.

On the stator, there is an index punch mark on the front piece (no springs) and the piece closer to the CDI body? (not the cover). If the punch marks are lined up, you're good with that piece (be sure it's not too far to the right. It will spring right if you twist it left. Just twist it left enough until it has resistance). Slide that on with the dowel pin in the groove and put that little 10mm bolt and washer on and torque it down.

Now turn the flywheel by hand (counter-clockwise) until you get to the line with the 'o' above it to the left of the 'F'. Put the pulse generator on and line up the index mark on the black box up with the line on the stator.

My flywheel would kind of go 'limp' at the top and roll over and the 'T' would not be visible. I just used two zip-ties to apply equal pull on each side to hold at the 'T' and 'F' marks. You can put the left and right pull start cover bolts in their holes and use that to tension the flywheel with the zip ties.

Because if you have on the 'T' and are seeing light through the plug hole, you're either at the bottom of the Intake or Power stroke.

I think I remember you saying you had fire and fuel, so that only leaves so many things to check.
But if you didn't take the cam out and it was running before you replaced the dowel pin, I would expect the 'O' mark to be 180 degrees from the index mark on the valve cover if it was off that much, right?