1986 Honda 250SX Strarting Problem

[KingPaul]

My 250SX is giving me problems & I'll do my best to describe what it's doing, or should I say NOT doing, and what I've done. Last week I took out the 250SX, turned the key and seemed like a low battery, green light went out right away & not enough power to keep the starter going. I took the battery out and put it on the charger over night until it said it was charged, cleaned the coil connections and re-attached the battery. Nothing, the green neutral light won't even go on. I replaced the coil as it was the original and in bad shape, charged the battery again although the charger says it's completely charges and still nothing. Then I used the kick starter and it started right up. I check all of my connection that I messed with and it must be grounded if it started with the kick starter but the neutral light won't light up. Any thoughts?

KingPaul

[sp8twn]

Did you check you fuse?

[KingPaul]

To be honest, I didn't even know they had fuses in them. I'll check that when I get home.

Embarrassed but thankful,

KingPaul

[82 250r]

Battery might be dead...A worn battery will sometimes read fully charged on a battery charger. Need to have it tested with a load.

[Howdy]

Make sure you installed the battery correctly. If you installed it backwards it can cause the fuse to blow. ;)
Howdy

[KingPaul]

Well the fuse is fine but I'm guessing this might be a problem. Let's see if the picture load.
173975
173976

Now I'm clearly no electrical genius but I would thing that the loose red wire must go somewhere. Who ever owned the trike before me took out the rear tail light and everything worked fine until about 2 weeks age. It's possible that this wire came loose or maybe something else.

Any thoughts?

KingPaul

[Frankencelery]

Yeah, that might do it!

[KingPaul]

Does anyone know where that Red wire attaches to? It looks like it connects to battery but I'm not sure (I was looking at the wire diagram on this site).

KingPaul

[Flyingw]

Yes, the red wire goes to the pos batt cable. That is the wire the regulator feeds DC power back to the battery to charge it.

[KingPaul]

I'm hoping this will solve my issue. Thanks everyone for your help

KingPaul

[KingPaul]

Well still nothing. Any thoughts?

[Flyingw]

I think your battery is toast. Never charge those little batteries on anything but 2 amps. I learned this recently when I force fed my SX battery at 6 amps and it wont hold a charge now.

[Sawfly]

i'd say you're shorting somewhere but i can't think of where... did you put a volt-meter on the battery instead of using the charger? i had this issue for a while but i dont remember what i did to fix it. i think my fuse box bounced enough that it pulled a wire out. i'd check a voltmeter all along the wires after every connection and see where your power disappears. if that doesn't pinpoint your problem start pullin stuff. theres no clicking when you start it right? your solenoid will click sometimes if it's bad. it could also be a bad starter, grounding out or something.

this is a bit thrown together, but good luck.
i've got a pdf copy of the service manual if you want it.

[Flyingw]

one thing you can do to see if there is a draw on the battery is to disconnect the neg battery cable. hook your meter between the neg batt post and the neg batt cable. put your meter on DC. With the key off you will probably read between 50-150 millivolts. Not unusual but if your reading a draw of full volts then you have a problem.

[Dave Little]

I've had this same exact problem happen to me recently on an '85 I built. I'm surprised you guys haven't suggested this but here is where the constant short was for me:
http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww200/QuantumDave/Rides/IMG_0471.jpg (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/QuantumDave/media/Rides/IMG_0471.jpg.html)
Yup, inside the starter due to so much crap and general deterioration of the brushes. Pull it out and pop the end frame off and see what it looks like. They are easy to rebuild, you can chuck the rotor in a cordless drill if you have to and use a file like I did to level and smooth the armature but a lathe is the way to go. The source of most of that crap was the hard-baked plastic stuff covering the copper windings between the armature and the rotor field- you should not be able to see the wires in that area, they should be buried. It gets hot and breaks down, accumulates and progressively causes a short, which in turn, generates more heat the starter has to deal with. For this rebuild, I ended up using another rotor.
http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww200/QuantumDave/Rides/IMG_0472.jpg (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/QuantumDave/media/Rides/IMG_0472.jpg.html)
http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww200/QuantumDave/Rides/IMG_0475.jpg (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/QuantumDave/media/Rides/IMG_0475.jpg.html)
Kits are $20 something on Ebay and are pretty good. Save the original phenolic washers if they are in good shape, I don't like the ones that came in the Ebay kit I got. Also- very important, don't bother using the new needle cage bearing (brush side) that is supplied with the kit, they do not fit over the shaft. I've had no problems using the original, long as it's decent just clean and regrease.

[KingPaul]

Looks like I've got a weekend project ahead of me. Thanks for all of your help & will report back the out come.

KingPaul

[KingPaul]

Well I got a brand new battery, I think I checked all the connections & still nothing. I am able to start it still with the kick
start & the head light comes on but I can tell it's working off the engine as the more I rev the engine the brighter the lights are. Dave Little, I'm going to try the starter next. I do have a question, I can buy the starter rebuild kit for around $20.00 but can buy a whole starter motor for $39.00 and not have to take anything apart. Are those after market motors junk or are they ok

KingPaul

[Flyingw]

Ive bought 3 of the aftermarket starters and no problems.

[KingPaul]

Ok, replaced the starter and nothing at first but once I touched the "Stray" red wire from the fuse box to the positive battery term. LIGHTS & the SX started right up. I'm not sure if it was the battery or the starter but for $80.00 I don't care!!! It works. Now I have to keep my eye out for another fues assembly so I can put it together correctly instead of these splices. Thanks everyone for your help

KingPaul