Why wont my 200x wheelie and why does it smoke???

[hawaiirider]

:confused:
just rebuilt my 200x motor - actually its a 200e wedged in a x chasis. new wiseco piston, all new gaskets, had shop regrind and install new valve seals but it smokes pretty decent?? has lots of compression on the pull handle and runs great it does have a race cam in it.

also it has a custom built 1' longer swingarm on it, the shock is a less of an angle than the stock mount. it was a wheelie machine, but now it just does not want to wheelie?

:confused:

[ATC-Eric]

If it smokes, something wasn't installed/machined correctly. Did you have the cylinder bored over, and machined properly for the new piston?

So if I understand your "english" correctly, it used to wheelie with that swing arm, but now it does not?

[barnett468]

Hello


Did you have it bored out?

Ig not did you havbe the piston clearance measured?

Did you have the bore measured for taper and out of round?

If so what was it?

Did you put a cross hatch pattern on the bore with a 3 blade hone?

What color is the smoke, lite blue/gray or very dark to black?

How does it idle?

What is the mfg and model of cam or specs from cam card?

[Ghostv2]

Did you do a compression test or leakdown test? I know someone will say it.

[barnett468]

WONT WHEELIE

Did it have swing arm on it before?

What performance upgrades did enge have prior to rebuild?

Is this cam more of a top end cam than previous one?

Did you rejet for new cam?

If cam has more top end you need to gear it lower, you also lost a little compression because intake valve is most likely closing at a later time.

[rg97]

I know that the prev people have asked a lot of questions, but a few more
How well do you know the shop? They may not have put something together right since its an older engine.
There are more factors than just the engine that make it wheelie, such as the gearing or tires, not to mention you have a swinger that makes it harder to wheelie.
When you say wheelie, what gear? my X only does it in first and second, and after second the suspension will extend but thats all.
X2 on checking the jetting

[tommerp]

Meh... "Why won't it wheelie" and "why does it smoke"

Kinda like asking.. "Why can't I do a burnout in my car and why does it miss so bad"

I'm not knocking... but honestly.. some basics could / should be done before even asking these questions....

[hoosierlogger]

Something must seriously be wrong if you can't pull a wheelie on a 200x. My daughters ALT50 will wheelie all day long. I have very serious doubts that the 1 inch longer swingarm has anything to do with it.

[El Camexican]

it was a wheelie machine, but now it just does not want to wheelie?

Do you have air in the tires?

[fcf35]

Correct me if I read your post wrong but it looks like you said you had a 1 ft longer swingarm?if that's the case then there lies your wheelie problem.If you want wheelies then a longer swingarm isn't a good thing.

[hoosierlogger]

Holy crap it does say 1 foot longer!!! Yeah I agree that's the problem. I thought it said 1 inch. A 1 foot extension is a pretty radical change to the leverage required to pull a wheelie.

[hawaiirider]

thanks for your responses, its a 10.5 comp piston was bored by local shop was honed too. head was done by shop upstate w good reputation. cam is webcams topend cam stage 4. has been ported, dg exhaust, big dg carb, runs good, a bit hot but good. gearing is stock. swingarm is 1 inch of course over not a foot! the angle the shock is at is less like this \ than stock.
blue smoke = oil thats what its doing
it used to wheelie in 5th gear with stock swingarm and stock motor no it wont hardly wheelie in any gear, when i say wheelie i mean a straight up catwalk not just a quick lift.
ive just been riding it as is since i kind of have to, just the oil smoke worries me with a new motor!!

[hoosierlogger]

You didn't line all of the gaps in the rings up on the piston did you?

[yaegerb]

x2....Hoosierlogger beat me to it. Did you assemble the rings on the piston? The gaps have to be offset on the piston, plus I have also seen where guys accidentally overlap the oil ring instead of ensuring the ends are touching and not overlapping. Either of these, if done wrong are a one way ticket to smokeville.

[hawaiirider]

i definetly offset them about 180 degrees from each other, i dont know about the oil ring overlap though? im used to working on 2 strokes, these 4 strokes are generally bulletproof

[barnett468]

Hello Hawiirider




thanks for your responses, its a 10.5 comp piston was bored by local shop was honed too. ive just been riding it as is since i kind of have to, just the oil smoke worries me with a new motor!!


Exactly how did you break it in?

How long did you break it in for?

What oil did you use exactly, was it synthetic?

What's the answer to Hoosierbloggers question?

You did not answer the question regarding what performance options if any were on the engine prior to the new mods or what carb jets you exchanged if any. I for one can't really begin to answer your question very well without knowing that first.

[matt22895]

Did you forget the little o ring that goes on the dowel pin between the cylinder and head? this could also cause smoke i believe.

[hawaiirider]

i dont think i forgot the dowel o-ring, i may have though. what should my comp. be? it feels good by hand. the motor was bone stock, before all the mods, i broke it it by riding about half throttle for a hour or two on non synthetic honda oil.
dan-smoky

[barnett468]

Hello hawaiirider



Ok, good info, now what about Hoosierbloggers question regarding the ring alignment and mine about jetting?

[barnett468]

Hello Hawaiirider



I also asked you if it felt like it had less bottom power but more top.

You should probably put a 1 tooth smaller counter shaft gear on it with that cam. In general, when one inatalls a "bigger" cam, the cam simply raises the rpm operating range of the motor ie., more rpm's but less bottom end power therefore possibly no wheelies until you change the gearing etc.

[barnett468]

Hello hawaiirider




what should my comp. be? its a 10.5 comp piston

Does the piston have a raised dome?

How much further did they bore it than what it was?

What is it bored to now?

Did it smoke before?

If so it's possible that you are burning old oil out of your exhaust but your engine itself doesn't smoke.

I saw your ring answer. If you installed the end gaps of the oil ring together it could smoke.


Max compression for pump gas is around 170 psi. This is probably 10 lbs more than yours had stock, check the nabual for exact specs. If 160 is stock and you are around .100" over your compression might be around 180 when measured with a high quality gauge with a short small diameter hose and the throttle wide open.

[Dirtcrasher]

Take it apart, something is wrong. Most shops suk, do your own work.

I barely let them bore cylinders which is why I walk in with a box of micrometers and inside telescopic gauges......

[atc350xer]

Mine doesn't wheelie well either, unless I let someone else ride it :lol:

[Vealmonkey]

I don't remember anyone mentioning the clutch. They do get wear and tear on them and need adjusting.

[hawaiirider]

it was just the wiseco 10.5 to 1 piston no mods to it, im positive i got the top 2 rings right unless i put them on upside down?
yes the cam move all the power to mid to upper rpm for sure, that may be part of the wheelie problem, i thought it may have been the shocks angle being less, it sits 2 inches lower than stock, handles amazing and i caught 20ft of air in height by 50ft length on it, it lands great!
the autoclutch feels great no slipping.
it must be that o-ring, that or i screwed up the oil ring as it didnt say how to install it in directions.
the jetting is the stock smaller jets included w the dg carb, it wouldnt run right w the larger but runs great w the smaller, plug is grey not brown.
is it going to hurt my new motor to burn this oil? ive got alot of money and time in it but i have to pull the big red motor out of the x frame just to take it apart, cant do a in frame job.
any idea what a compression guage should read for my piston?
thanks for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yaegerb]

what year and model is the motor?

[oldskool83]

smoke means rings are in wrong if its just been rebuild or you do not have correct bore size for piston, or your valves are wasted and you cheaped out and didnt replace them. why does it not wheelie...well whats your gearing and tire sizes.

[barnett468]

Hello hawaiirider




it was just the wiseco 10.5 to 1 piston no mods to it, im positive i got the top 2 rings right unless i put them on upside down?

You better take it apart as others said. Continuing to ask questions about this when it has been answered more than once will not stop the oil burning.






cam is webcams topend cam stage 4. yes the cam move all the power to mid to upper rpm for sure, that may be part of the wheelie problem,

No, that IS a BIG part of the problem as I already mentioned. Install small counter like I already suggested.







been ported,head was done by shop upstate w good reputation.

Hopefully but this is occasionally also possibly part of the problem, if just some local yahoo shop with a grinder did it. You can easily ruin a cyl heads performance by improper porting. You don’t just hog the holes out willy nilly.







dg exhaust, big dg carb, runs good, a bit hot but good.

WHAT RUNS HOT EXACTLY?







gearing is stock.

Way too tall for that cam put smaller counter like I already suggested.







i thought it may have been the shocks angle being less, it sits 2 inches lower than stock,

If you lowered the back only it will wheelie easier. If you lowered front and back it will be much harder to wheelie.






[/quote]it must be that o-ring, that or i screwed up the oil ring as it didnt say how to install it in directions.[/quote]

A missing intake o ring will not make it smoke.







the jetting is the stock smaller jets included w the dg carb, it wouldnt run right w the larger but runs great w the smaller, plug is grey not brown.

It is lean! I already asked exactly what size jets were in it before and what are in it now. With no info my GUESS is to install a 2 size larger main.







is it going to hurt my new motor to burn this oil?

The engine is already hurt as evidenced by the burning oil. As others mentioned take the cyl off and fix it or take your chances.







ive got alot of money and time in it but i have to pull the big red motor out of the x frame just to take it apart, cant do a in frame job.

I don’t understand your point or your question if there is one.







any idea what a compression guage should read for my piston?

I gave you a general idea in post 21 but you haven’t answered what bore over size it is yet. No point in anyone reposting the same info over and over again.

[barnett468]

Hello hawaiirider


Here's the 4 cams web lists for your bike, which one do you have?

p/n dur

40b = 266
89a = 270
214 = 280
232 = 288

http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html

[hawaiirider]

its the 280 or 288 camshaft, its definetley faster than a stock 200x but stock would wheelie in any gear, i even tried lowrange on the big red motor/ still wont wheelie for crap. my guess is the jetting is off. it kinda burbles a little when i try to wheelie, runs clean on top i raised the clip one position didnt help at all, the shop has a dyno so ill probably do that when funds are good enough.

[ColtonGG33]

Hope you get it fixed right, I would say that swingarm has alot to do with it also. Do you have any pics of it?