250r Bottom End Sound

[Grahm]

I recently got a 1985 250r in good shape.Motor has been gone through professionally and everything was in
spec and had mild port/polish done.Runs perfect but has sound like a whir whir whir sound coming from the right side bottom end.The mechanic said that every single R he has seen has made this noise and that it is the
counter balancer and its just the nature of the machine.

I just wanted an second opinion because I go paranoid over stuff like this.Do your R's do this too?It is alot less noticeable
when I put the FMF pipe on cause its quite a bit louder than stock.

[Cave Rider]

yes he is probably correct in saying it is the counter balancer, the whirring sound comes from the bearing that is surely going to be worn. unfortunately the bearing and the balancer is unavailable. you have three options.. first, you can live with it and it will probably be okay. second, find a used balancer with a good bearing. or last, find someone to press the gear off of the balancer and replace the bearing with one you can find from a bearing manufacturer. if I remember correctly the only bearings I could find were slightly wider. but with a little ingenuity you can make them work. PS, if you go this route make sure that the gear gets pressed back on in the same location it came off. good luck !!!

[Grahm]

How difficult is it to change the counter balancer?Do the cases need to be split?I dont really want to take it apart unless its
absolutely needed.

Almost all the ones on youtube make this noise as well and so do the quad R's.Not sure what to do.The sound doesnt bother me I just dont want anything to break.

[threewheelin-feelin]

yes he is probably correct in saying it is the counter balancer, the whirring sound comes from the bearing that is surely going to be worn. unfortunately the bearing and the balancer is unavailable. you have three options.. first, you can live with it and it will probably be okay. second, find a used balancer with a good bearing. or last, find someone to press the gear off of the balancer and replace the bearing with one you can find from a bearing manufacturer. if I remember correctly the only bearings I could find were slightly wider. but with a little ingenuity you can make them work. PS, if you go this route make sure that the gear gets pressed back on in the same location it came off. good luck !!!

when i ordered my bearing kit of ebay for my 250r it came with both bearings for the balancer and they fit perfect

[barnett468]

Hello

If you want you can take a video of it, post it to youtube.com then put the link here. Members can better assess what's going on that way.

[Grahm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoRPc56emmo sounds just like this guys.I think he's a member here too.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Last I knew, ESR and BDT rebuild counterbalancers... Probably a few others too.

[yaegerb]

Don't rebuild the counterbalancer unless you know what you are doing. The gear has to be put back on perfectly. Mosh on here can do it for you or carlos at BDT can do it. I just had mine completely rebuilt by BDT and mine still makes the whirring noise. If you are still unsure, pull the clutch cover and move the counterbalancer up-down, left-right. If there is ANY play then I would get it rebuilt. I have seen what happens to these motors when the counterbalancer goes out and it ain't pretty.

[Grahm]

Took my side cover off and there was no play in the counter balancer at all!Everything looked good and no metal flakes in oil or anything.I guess there's nothing else I can do.

[barnett468]

Hello


HOLLY "BLEEP", Your bike sounds like the one in the video and is just as loud?

I have never heard a counter balancer make that much noise but I have heard far fewer than others here.

I would remove everything so the counter balancer could spin freely by hand and feel if there is even the slightest "notchy" feel in the it when it spins. It should feel as smooth as glass. If there is a "notchy" feel the bearing is bad. A bearing does not need to be loose to be bad.

If it is perfectly smooth then the noise is elsewhere, possibly excessive cylinder/piston clearance irregardless of what the mechanic says.

[barnett468]

Hello


I personally would not ride it until I fixed it something bad might happen.

[barnett468]

Hello


You can try to isolate the sound by using a long narrow screwdriver, just put one end against the case then the other against your ear then do the same with the cylinder etc while it is running.

[Grahm]

found this old thread along with a handful of others asking about this same thing.Made me feel a little better.Seems they all
do it,some louder than others.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/35512-85-86-250r-knocking-sound/page2

[threewheelin-feelin]

found this old thread along with a handful of others asking about this same thing.Made me feel a little better.Seems they all
do it,some louder than others.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/35512-85-86-250r-knocking-sound/page2

mine made this sound before and after i rebuilt it. they are not hard to rebuild. the small bearing can pretty much be done by hand. on the gear side we made a small notch so we knew how to put the gear back on and removed it with a press. to reinstall we put the shaft in the freezer for a hour and then put the gear on a hot plate and it slid right on perfect.

[82 250r]

Mine had a similar noise but it went away when i replaced the lower crank bearing and rod.

[Dirtcrasher]

I find many 250R's to make lots of bottom end noise.

One of which I rebuilt and powder coated myself.

Checked and replaced all bearings, installed new crank etc etc.

Still made noise and as Mikey says "RUN IT!!!!!"

[barnett468]

Hello




I recently got a 1985 250r in good shape.Motor has been gone through professionally and everything was in spec and had mild port/polish done.Runs perfect but has sound like a whir whir whir sound coming from the right side bottom end.The mechanic said that every single R he has seen has made this noise and that it is the counter balancer and its just the nature of the machine.I just wanted an second opinion because I go paranoid over stuff like this.Do your R's do this too?It is alot less noticeable when I put the FMF pipe on cause its quite a bit louder than stock.

The brand new ones I rode did not make anywhere near this much noise. Something is excessively worn.






sound like a whir whir whir sound coming from the right side bottom end.

If you mean right side as you sit on the bike then it is most likely not the bearings. This is because the right side bearing sees much less load than the left side and since both bearings are the same size it simply stands to reason that the left side bearing would go out first.

Right side lower suggests right side crank bearing or rod. It does not matter if it was rebuilt, what matters is, the quality of the parts used and expertise of the builder. I have had to rebuild many newly rebuilt engines that were “rebuilt” by others.






the bearing and the balancer is unavailable. if I remember correctly the only bearings I could find were slightly wider.


when i ordered my bearing kit of ebay for my 250r it came with both bearings for the balancer and they fit perfect

It Is an extremely common bearing #6204 still showing available at the link below. They are also available at ant bearing supply store, Grainger. Make sure to buy “high speed” bearings from US or Japan only.


OEM FICHE BALANCER BEARING ITEM 29 P/N 96100620400 $13.25

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1984-usa_model7189/partslist/E++06.html#results


OEM BEARING $7.20

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-96100-62040-00.html


BEARING

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Main-Bearing-Honda-GX100-/261019956463






mine made this sound before and after i rebuilt it

If yours was a loud as the one in the video and rebuilding it did not help then either low quality bearings were installed, they were damaged during installation [unlikely] or the noise was from a different problem.






How difficult is it to change the counter balancer?Do the cases need to be split?I dont really want to take it apart unless its absolutely needed.

You likely have to split the cases to get to the inside bearing.






Almost all the ones on youtube make this noise as well and so do the quad R's.

They should not.






Not sure what to do.

Like I mentioned previously, I would not ride it until it was repaired others don’t care and would ride it until it broke. Fix it once, fix it right, have the peace of mind knowing you can ride it problem free for many years.






Almost The sound doesnt bother me I just dont want anything to break.


NO WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED





The gears listed can also make noise when worn however the noise would come from the lower left front.

BALANCER GEARS ITEMS 11 AND 12

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1984-usa_model7189/partslist/E++07.html#results

[Mosh]

I recently got a 1985 250r in good shape.Motor has been gone through professionally and everything was in
spec and had mild port/polish done.Runs perfect but has sound like a whir whir whir sound coming from the right side bottom end.The mechanic said that every single R he has seen has made this noise and that it is the
counter balancer and its just the nature of the machine.

I just wanted an second opinion because I go paranoid over stuff like this.Do your R's do this too?It is alot less noticeable
when I put the FMF pipe on cause its quite a bit louder than stock.

I currently run 3 250R's. 2 are low hour and barely make any noise, and my racer that has many hours on it that rattles just like yours or the video that was posted.

Here is the deal. On your engine, it could be one of many things..
The CB big end bearing..You can rebuild it yourself if you pay attention to the gear orientation and have a press. The bearing number you need is part# 16007..Go on ebay and type that in. They are like 20-30 bucks. I believe All Balls makes them also. If your case is worn where the bearing rides it will be loose and you have major issues. Usually when you have crank or CB bearing play you can feel the engine slapping in the footpegs almost as if someone has a hammer banging under the footpeg with each fire stroke. It is very pronounced and they feel just like that.
Secondly, the clutch baskets get worn on the cushions or even the big needle bearings and sleeves get worn in the clutch hub, and slap around or even rub on the big kicker ring gear. You will see chrome spots on the big kicker gear if that is the case. You will have to buy all new clutch hub parts or find low hour used stuff to remedy the play.
Also if the basket is a aftermarket basket, they are cut too thick and the back of the basket grinds on the crank small primary gear. You will have to remove the crank primary gear and bevel back the forward edge about .050" to make clearance for the new basket. (Search my thread and posts, I have documented this)..

Lastly, it could be piston slap or even trans bearing noise..Easy enough to find out by measuring piston to wall clearance and ring end gap or removing clutch cover down to trans shaft and checking your trans bearing up and down play.

Honestly all 2 strokes sound stupid loud on video.. If your noise lessens with the clutch pulled in, then you can assume basket wear or a broken clutch fiber plate..Mine has been making a similar (ticking) noise for around 5 years..All my stuff was new and rebuilt EXCEPT my basket and hub gear stuff.

If it makes you feel any better, go to the 2 minute mark in this vid and listen to mine idle at the bottom of the hill..Like I said, been doing it for a long time with no problems. My clutch basket is OEM and shot. One day I will replace it..I feel the basket is rubbing the big kicker gear on mine and where the noise is, because my other low hour motors with tight baskets don't make the noise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEC6FfJQlc

[barnett468]

Hello Grahm


Sorry, my post above was for a 1984 model. Misread the year in your orig post due to a small screen and less than perfect eyes..

ORIG P/N 91005HA2000

NEW P/N 91004-GJ5-023

Size 17 X 40 X 12


ITEM 10 LT SIDE BALANCER BEARING P/N 91005HA2000 AVAILABLE $17.50

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1985-usa_model68/partslist/


OEM LT SIDE BALANCER BEARING AVAILABLE $14.41

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-91005-HA2-000.html


NEW P/N 91004-GJ-023 AVAILABLE $14.69

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-91004-GJ5-023.html

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I would add also, you do not need to split the case to remove the counterblancer.

Pull the clutch cover and crankshaft drive gear. I cannot remember off the top of my head if the clutch needs to be removed as well to allow for crankshaft drive gear removal (sorry, swiss cheese brain!).. Just be prepared to if it's necessary...

Once the crank gears are removed look for the 2 bolts that hold the CB retainer and remove them and the retainer.

CB is now ready for removal.

I would also recommend removing the CB carrier from the stator side. The CB carrier is what the pulse generator is mounted to. Once you remove the pulse generator you can then remove the 3 bolts that hold in the CB carrier. 2 of those bolts are quite long so use caution when removing them, abnormally long bolts that aren't very large in diameter sometimes tend to twist and break if the threads are a little seized up.

Once those 3 bolts are removed you can then tap it out from the clutch side using a wooden rod or some other suitable tool that will not damage the CB carrier as you tap it out.... The CB carrier houses the stator side CB bearing and can now be serviced....