6v regulator for ATC70?

[Frankencelery]

My ATC70 just blew the headlight AND the 12v LED taillight that was connected to it. I have no idea how much voltage it takes to do that, but clearly it's way too high. The headlight bulb had that demolished look a bulb gets when it really explodes inside, all black on the glass. So evidently the lighting coil generated a huge spike.

Anyway, I bought what I thought was a 6v regulator on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=140780948249&view=all&tid=815033872004

It turns out I probably read the description wrong. This appears to be a regulator to connect to a 12v system and outputs 6v. Naturally, I tried it, but it outputs about 1-2 volts max. Bummer.

Does anyone know of such a thing to regulate the voltage on a 6V system so it stays at 6v?

[kb0nly]

The reason it blew is your LED light..

The way those work is the internal resistance of the headlight and tail light together work to regulate the voltage. By putting in the LED light you reduced the resistance in the system and it blew.

[Frankencelery]

I should also note that I'm using DrATV's 6v 15w bulb, which burns much more brightly than the 25w. That would seem to defy logic, but it does. Since it burns so brightly, I know it's prone to burning out more often, but the last one lasted a year, so I wasn't concerned.

I did find a 6v regulator, also on Fleabay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-BANTAM-D1-D3-D5-D7-6V-AC-REGULATOR-NO-BULB-BLOWING-/360165848699?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item53db8eb67b.

This looks like it would work, but 40 bucks? From UK, plus shipping? Yikes!

[briano]

Put a 12 volt bulb in it. I use a fog light off of an early 80s Yamaha seca motorcycle for a headlight on my 70, it has been working great for a few years and is plenty bright

[Frankencelery]

The reason it blew is your LED light..

The way those work is the internal resistance of the headlight and tail light together work to regulate the voltage. By putting in the LED light you reduced the resistance in the system and it blew.

You're probably right, but the LED lasted several years, so I was surprised when it blew too, being 12-volt.` The problem with these machines where the lights are driven off the coil is that the bulb is very dim at low RPM. I like this particular bulb because it is fairly bright even at idle. So my thinking was to try to clamp the voltage down a bit to keep it, and whatever I use to replace the blown taillight from blowing. Also, I went LED because I was sick of regular incandescent taillight bulbs blowing all the time in my ATC200 and KLT110. I'm even using the right ones in those machines, and the damn things blow anyway.

[kb0nly]

Ahh yes the 15w bulb will burn much brighter, i know it sounds counter intuitive but its because the 15w filament in it has less resistance then say the 25w bulb that i put in them. I would put in a 25w bulb and i bet that might just solve your issues, if not go with what briano said and put in a 12v bulb for higher resistance. But the 25w bulb should suffice. The only problem is the LED still drops the resistance, you could measure the resistance of a stock tail light bulb with an ohm meter and then compare that to your LED and add a resistor in series with the LED light to keep it from going too high on the voltage.

[kb0nly]

You're probably right, but the LED lasted several years, so I was surprised when it blew too, being 12-volt.` The problem with these machines where the lights are driven off the coil is that the bulb is very dim at low RPM. I like this particular bulb because it is fairly bright even at idle. So my thinking was to try to clamp the voltage down a bit to keep it, and whatever I use to replace the blown taillight from blowing. Also, I went LED because I was sick of regular incandescent taillight bulbs blowing all the time in my ATC200 and KLT110. I'm even using the right ones in those machines, and the damn things blow anyway.

Oh i hear ya, and its a pain to change the bulb when its front access and you have to remove the lens just to replace the damn thing!!

I will look around a bit to see if there is a cheaper option here for regulation. The only other thing i could think of is a full rectifier/regulator for 6v operation. It would require a little rewiring but then the lights would be running off of DC instead of unregulated AC, the only problem is you still have the dim at idle and the added problem of some flickering if you don't add a battery to smooth out the DC.

There has to be a better AC regulator option.

[Cave Rider]

I have a 350x Regulator and bulb in my 70. Works great. Reg. Off 350x,250r,etc will all work.

[kb0nly]

I have a 350x Regulator and bulb in my 70. Works great. Reg. Off 350x,250r,etc will all work.

Hey now thats a good idea.... I might have to do that on my 90.

[Frankencelery]

Oh i hear ya, and its a pain to change the bulb when its front access and you have to remove the lens just to replace the damn thing!!

I will look around a bit to see if there is a cheaper option here for regulation. The only other thing i could think of is a full rectifier/regulator for 6v operation. It would require a little rewiring but then the lights would be running off of DC instead of unregulated AC, the only problem is you still have the dim at idle and the added problem of some flickering if you don't add a battery to smooth out the DC.

There has to be a better AC regulator option.

I've just added a single diode and a capacitor so I can get something I can measure with my voltmeter. The DVM had to be put away for this job, I had to get out the old analog voltmeter to give me RMS voltage. With the diode in place, I get about 4v at idle, and up to 9v when revved up. And you're absolutely right, that .7v drop combined with half-wave rectification dims the bulb considerably at idle. I'm still hoping to find an AC regulator option. The 350x regulator is interesting...and you use a 350x bulb? I wouldn't think that would work well at all.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, check this out. I know it's always hard to take a picture of light with a camera, but it should give an idea of what I'm talking about it. Leaving the headlight connected directly to the coil, it looks like this at idle:

171597

Then I tied a bungee cord to the throttle (no comments about how stupid this is) and here it is at about half throttle:

171598

You have to use a little imagination here, but you can see how amazingly bright it is. If I can keep the voltage contained to 6 volts, I think I can still have my cake and eat it too. Just gotta find something cheaper here in the US. Maybe the 350x rectifier/regulator is the ticket after all, but they're not cheap either.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, one more pic. Here's the 6v 25w bulb (which I also had handy) at idle:

171600

This is not exactly scientific, because I didn't match the angle in each pic, but you can see the 25w is pretty weak. I think this is the stock bulb for my ATC90.

[kb0nly]

Hmmm very good job on the measurements and the pics.

I will keep looking around, its easy to find a 12v AC regulator off another trike or bike, but the 6v options are limited and expensive.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, I found what I was looking for. It was still more than I wanted to spend, but I think it will do the trick.

http://www.scooterworks.com/regulator---6-volt-12-amp-ac-products-8991.php#.UcQ1tZwWKeY

It's called a "clipping regulator" which works on AC without having to rectify it. I also found a schematic to build your own, and although that might have been fun in a way, I would have spent that much or more just to put the parts together. Anyway, I'll report back whether it works when I get it.

[kb0nly]

Cool! Can you send me a link to the schematic? I would like to look at that.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, here's the link to the schematic...

http://home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/RegRec/GPZacRegulator.html

[fastatc70]

I have a 12v system in my atc70. What I used because I don't have a battery was a voltage regulator from a Honda 250R quad.

Check out dratv.com they have voltage regulators for 6v and 12v system. The 6v bulb has a fixed resistance the more voltage you push thought the bulb the more Amps it draws causing the bulb to overheat. The last time I measured the voltage from the lighting coil was 6v at idle and 29v at wot.

The 12v bulb it a tempory fix if run at wot that bulb will also pop. A voltage regulator is the best thing to do. If you are running the stock lighting coil then run a 6v system regulator. All lights Are dim and Flicker at idle.

If I remember right the led lights need a battery to run right. They need a constant voltage to work properly.

[fastatc70]

If you have a battery you need a regulator / rectifier setup.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, I finally got it done! Here's some pics:

176419
This is the AC regulator I bought from Scooterworks, RT-507. It has 3 connections, AC-In, AC-Out, and Ground. Only ground is labeled, just to keep it interesting. I mounted it inside the headlight housing.

176420176421
Here's the headlight and new LED taillight at idle. I did use a diode on the taillight just to be safe, although it worked without it. Note that the headlight is nice and bright. I'm using the 15w bulb from DrATV. (something is auto-rotating my pic...just tip your head on the side)

176422
This is revved up. The light is brighter, but not bulb-popping. You can actually see the regulator kick in and the headlight flickers just a bit, and then stops getting any brighter.

Oh, and I had a "duh" moment and realized why the 15w bulb is brighter than the 25w. It was so obvious when I realized it. The 25w bulb definitely has lower resistance than the 15w. The 15w is .5 ohms and the 25w is .4 ohms, which means the 25w draws more current. The ATC70 lighting coil doesn't have enough output to burn the 25w bulb at a decent brightness, which also explains why you never burn out bulbs using the 25w.

This is the perfect solution I was looking for, and I think I will avoid burning out bulbs from now on.

[Tomcall]

Thanks this has been a useful thread. I didn't know I could get a regulator designed for a system with NO battery