Honda 200s Help???

[mike84bigred]

So, first of all, I hope I can be welcomed back to the forum. After stepping out of the trike phase for a while to concentrate on my quad, I was itching for that 3 wheeler ride again. Just so happened, an 84 200s fell into my hands.

Anyway, So when I got it, the engine was siezed up from sitting for a while. I poured tranny fluid in the head, waited a day, and got it free. I had to piece the wiring harness back together, and buy a few missing pieces. I got it running today, but it wasen't pretty! First thing I know is the carb. is garbage. Leaking gas out the overflow, idles all over the place, etc.. My head pipe is leaking bad, so going to have to take it off and see if I can re-seat it. So, heres my main question, it was smoking pretty good for the 5 minutes I had it running, but it didn't really smell like it was burning oil. I pulled the plug and figured it would be wet, but it was pretty dry, but carbon fouled bad. Maybe its just burning some oil/tranny fluid leftover in the head? Do you guys think I should buy a carb., re-seat the head pipe, and see what happens, or do you think a tear down is in order? Im not looking for a prestine machine here, just something to good around the house with.

[Worden18]

Even if you ended up rebuilding the engine, I think you need to do the easier, basic things first.

-flush the gas tank (check for rust as well)
-get a kit and rebuild the carb, replace the lines
-clean/check fuel petcock
-replace air filter/clean out airbox

And yeah, fix the exhaust the best you can and go from there. If all of these things are in order, you'll know better where you stand.

[mike84bigred]

The tank and petcock have problems of their own. Currently I am using the coolant reservoir from a Polaris Sportsman as my fuel tank. I can get a brand new carb for it off Ebay for about $25. I basically want to know if anyone has had these similair problems with smoking when dealing with a siezed machine, and if clears up eventually or not. I don't want to put another carb. in, mess around with the exhaust, only to find out it all needs torn down in the end. I have very limited time to do any work to this thing, so don't want to work backwards at all.

[rg97]

Dont buy that chinese ebay $25 trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro... It will only give you more problems than you already have. are you sure the reservoir tank didnt have any residual coolant in it? its possible that some oil was left in the head, that would make it smoke. If you think the carb is trash, just find an OEM one. doesnt have to be new, but one thats in proper working order
Really, the smoke shouldnt hurt anything, it may impact the performance a bit, but it shouldnt hurt to ride it (gently) and see if it clears up

[mike84bigred]

Just curious, how much is a bore job anymore? Haven't had one done in years!

[Scootertrash]

A bore job from my machinist will run 60.00 + tax.

So just to clarify:
You poured tranny fluid into the cylinder thru the spark plug hole in the head, correct?
If you poured it into the cylinder, then yea, it's gonna smoke until the fluid is burned out of the cylinder.

I would clean the carb you have, and give that a try first. I would never buy a cheap ebay carb from China.

[kb0nly]

I have had the exact opposite experience with those chinese carbs, i have one on my 200ES and it runs perfectly with it. I put one on a 125M this year also, what an improvement.

The trans fluid also got blown out into the exhaust, it will take a while to burn it all out.

[mike84bigred]

Thanks for the input. I will see if I can seat the header pipe and tinker with the carb and try tk get a good 20 minutes of running out of it to see if it clears up. If not, ill take it from there. Ill keep you guys posted.

[jb2wheels]

...I basically want to know if anyone has had these similair problems with smoking when dealing with a siezed machine, and if clears up eventually or not...

Yes - had same experience with a BW 200 engine. Was locked up when I got it because the chain wore a hole in the crankcase that let all the oil out. Filled with WD40, left it for a week, then hefted my not insignificant girth up on the kicker and broke it loose. It ran great but smoked.

No - it never cleared up

[84honda200s]

you can buy the exhaust gaskets still. i may even have one still kicking around . . a cyl. bore job around our area can range from 55.00 to 65.00 plus good ole nys tax. as far as carb issue, take it apart and clean it good and put a new float seat in it. sounds to me like the floats are stuck open. normally a new seat fixes that issue.

[mike84bigred]

When my dakota blew the bottom intake pan gasket, oil was mixing with the fuel causing it to smoke horribly! When I fixed it, I let it run for about 45 minutes and it was still burning bad! It wasent till 15 minutes driving it when it finally cleared up. Larger scale, but same idea. We'll see I guess

[barnett468]

Hello


Check cam timing per manual. Chain may be excessively worn causing retarded cam timing.


SIEZED ENGINE – This likely to to the rings rudsting to the cylinder wall caused by condensation or water directly entering the cylinder. Your cylinder is rusted where the rings were sitting and may wear quickly as they pass this area.

EX PIPE LEAK – There is no seating. It requires a gasket as mentioned by 84 honda200s. You can take your pipe to any motorcycle shop and they can probably match one up. They are also sold at industrial hardware supply stores. They are called copper crush gaskets.

CARB LEAK – Your carb is not necessarily junk. It may just have debris stuck in needle and seat preventing it from closing, try to clean it as mentioned. If that doesn’t stop the leaking then install a new needle and seat as mentioned by warden and 84honda200s. Check for stuck floats and set float level per manual. Set fuel mix screw on carb to spec around 1 3/4 out from full in. Click on the blue string in KBONLY’S post to get one online free.

ERRATIC IDLE – Most likely due to your engine getting flooded by carb.

SMOKE – Black is too much gas and possibly some burnt oil mixed in, lite gray is oil only.

[mike84bigred]

Round 2

Got it running fairly easy today. I took the header pipe off and cleaned up around the gasket and finally got it to seat properly, so it was not leaking. Was running pretty good for about 3 minutes, and then the carb. finally just gave out. Machine stopped running, was pouring gas from everywhere out of the carb.. Have to wait to rebuild it or something to run it again. Oh well. :rolleyes:

[atc007]

Get yourself a $25 carb off ebay and forget your problems. I have them here,but can't ship them to you for the cost they sell them for ! You're wasting your time putting any time or parts into a 28yo 200S carb.. I can also do the top end if you need. Bore/valve job that is :)

[kb0nly]

Get yourself a $25 carb off ebay and forget your problems. I have them here,but can't ship them to you for the cost they sell them for ! You're wasting your time putting any time or parts into a 28yo 200S carb.. I can also do the top end if you need. Bore/valve job that is :)

Agree with that... The rebuild kits only replace a few parts, they don't repair/replace the really worn parts. I had one the slide would move side to side fairly easy, would never stay tuned or hold its idle speed. Finally gave up on it, tossed on a cheap chinese carb and later sold that. The new owner still running it around on that carb, its been 2-3 years at least on that cheap carb.

A rebuild kit is $20-$30, for the same price you can buy a complete carb.. Just take the bowl off and clean out any casting sand that might be in the bottom, i have had a couple now that had grit in the bottom of them, and i think its sand from casting. Also check the jet sizes, they don't always get the right size for the application installed. You can swap over the jets from your original carb if they are not right. Other than that just toss it on, hookup the fuel line and set the mixture screw and your done.

[mike84bigred]

Carb purchased, now wait.....

[mike84bigred]

Got the new carb on. Ran pretty good but still smoking. Going to pull the head off and determine weather I need rings, seals, or both. Hopefully it dosent need bored.

[Taiser]

I've never had a problem with the Chinese carbs either... have one in my 110 which has lasted years and just ordered one for my 200x for 18 bucks!!! How can you go wrong for a price like that? I still have 2 old original carbs for my 200x for a rebuild if needed, but even if these carbs only lasted 2 years, who cares? Buy a new one when it conks out!!! How much can go wrong in a carb anyways, it's not a nuclear reactor after all! :)

[mike84bigred]

For some reason, it leaked when I first put it on. After that, it was fine but will only run with the choke half on. Anyone know where the fuel/air mixture screw supposed to be? Also the the clip on the needle?

[Dave8338]

Air/fuel adjustment screw is on the front bottom side of the carb, at the front of the bowl. Needle clip should be in the middle notch but it really only effects the mid-range transition.

[Scootertrash]

You can't expect to put a brand new carb on and have it tuned properly for your machine. You may get lucky, but don't count on it. I would say even more so with a cheap Chinese carb.

You tune your needle first. Follow this procedure to tune your carb:

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/55086-Carb-Jetting-101-Terms-Tips-and-Jetting-Theory

[mike84bigred]

Thats not I asked. I know where the screw is, I'm asking where is it supposed to be positioned? like when I rebuilt my Polaris carb., a good place to start was a quarter turn out from all the way in. I could figure it out myself, but I acciedently sold my Clymer manual when I sold a bunch of parts. In no way did expected it to be set correctly, whether OEM or aftermarket.

Anyway, I got bigger issues. I have been beating on the bottom motor mount for the last 2 hours with no success on getting it out!

[kb0nly]

If you need the manual you can download it from my server, click the link below in my signature and there you go!

Usually back it out from lightly seating about 2 - 2 1/4 turns, get it running and warmed up, turn it back in until the motor sputters and dies, then back it out one turn.

[mike84bigred]

Will do that, thanks. As I I said, I got bigger problems now. Tring to.get the motor out. Got all motor mounts except one, the rear bottom. I have never seen anything like it in my like. Nut came, and head on the other side decided to break off rather than turn. I was beating on it for 2 hours until I smashed my hand with the hammer! Thing is, I got it to move finally, but the bolt is now mushroomer and wont go through the bracket. Ugh!

[mike84bigred]

Success, sorta. Got the motor out. Had to cut the bottom rear bracket off of the frame. I was able to bang the broken bolt out eventually on my bench. Will have to weld the broken bracket pieces back on, but oh well. Got motor apart. Have to take some measurements to see if bore and piston are within the service limits. Big thanks to kbOnly for the link to the service manual!

[Taiser]

Good job getting it out! Now for a real adventure, try and get a swingarm bolt out of a rusted 250r!!! Ask me how I know... :(