225dx No Power...

[splangeland]

Alright guys, I have a 225dx. Everybody that has one seems to be pretty fond theirs. Me... not so much. I replaced my head gasket hoping that would solve some of my problem since it was leaking. This thing just doesn't have the oomph people talk about. Sometimes it will run great, It will pop wheelies left and right. It always starts about first pull but just doesn't have the power I feel it should. Does anybody have any ideas of whats going on here? I am trying to get this ready to go ride trails on Memorial weekend. Honestly I'm thinking of selling it to buy a 200x. This thing just has nothing on my YTM 200 that I had. Any help would be awesome. Oh, and I also put a coil on it.

[dougspcs]

Way too much here to start listing possible causes of your issue..

Things you could do to give us place to start helping you..compression test numbers, cam timing double check, carb condition...

[El Camexican]

It will pop wheelies left and right. It always starts about first pull but just doesn't have the power I feel it should.

What do you want it to do? If it's lofting the front non-stop I'd say it's running pretty strong. As far as comparing it to a YTM200 I can tell you it won't out run one simply because the 200 weighs less, but it’s a lot more fun to ride in the rough stuff thanks to the rear shock.

Now when I say the 200 is faster I mean by about one trike length in an acceleration contest and a couple miles per hour in the top end. I know this from personal experience. If yours is that far off what your 200 was it likely needs a rebuild. Start by checking your compression ratio and if that’s good set the valves and cam chain, gap the plug and clean the air filter and any ducts that it draws air through. Make sure the carb is spotless and that the jetting is correct, or at least stock. Do you have the correct height tires? If you have oversized tires they will suck the life out of that little engine.

[splangeland]

I can double check the timing tonight. I checked the valves while the engine was out. I unfortunately don't have a compression gauge, and the carb should be all set. I had problems with it overflowing so I cleaned it out and it is set to stock as far as adjustments go. I don't know how to tell if the jet is so if somebody knows how I can check that too. Carburetors are the area I have about zero skill or knowledge so anything there will be helpfull. Tires are 22x11x8 trailpro

El Camexican: sorry, I should have said when it is running good it will pop wheelies but most of the time its just slow and when I say slow I mean slooooow, I'm thinking my mini bike from Tractor Supply could just about out run this thing... Not quite but you get the idea:naughty:. It also doesn't burn oil or anything so I was thinking it hopefully doesn't need a rebuild

ColtonGG33: My exhaust is basically a straight pipe. The baffle was hacked out and where the muffler meets the headpipe is not really connected... that's my next project

[El Camexican]

Sound does not equate to power kids. Running an open pipe on a gas powered single cylinder engine adds no more power than putting playing cards on your bicycle spokes. In fact it will slow you down in most cases.

Fix your pipe before you bother doing anything other than checking your compression. Any good tuner will tell you that you can’t properly tune a vehicle with a poor exhaust system and unless you are running alcohol or nitro for fuel you need some backpressure. If your exhaust is indicative of the general condition of your trike you could have a number of problems that are combining to cause your power loss.

[splangeland]

Yeah I was hoping to get a new muffler for it because I know wide open is less than ideal. I wanted to put a DG system on it but they don't come with a spark arrestor and you cant get one for them, which I need in order to ride trails in MI. I am currently trying to find an OEM muffler for it but that is proving to be a challenge, there is a couple on ebay but they're all in about the same shape as mine. As for the rest of the trike, its actually in pretty good shape... well it was until I trailer-ed it down the highway and cracked my plastics. But other than that it seems to be good. Headlight/taillight work, Electric start works. It was a major step up from my YTM 200

I just found that the Oreilley's by me has a compression gauge in their loan-a-tool program so if its in tomorrow I will pick it up after work.

I double checked the timing, it was good.

Checked my spark plug. I thought it was running rich based on how black it is so I leaned it out and that made pop really bad. This is my plug before adjustments

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww27/splangeland/081.jpg
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww27/splangeland/080.jpg
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww27/splangeland/079.jpg

[El Camexican]

I just found that the Oreilley's by me has a compression gauge in their loan-a-tool program so if its in tomorrow I will pick it up after work.

Perfect!

How exactly did you lean out your engine? Leave no details out. BTW, No point to reading your plugs with that pipe on there.

[splangeland]

I pulled the throttle cable from the carb and raised the clip on the needle 1 notch. But with how it was popping I switched and lowered it a notch from factory sttings. The biggest difference I noticed between stock and 1 notch richer was that it didn't take so long to warm up. Its still cold blooded but nothing like it was before I lowered the clip a notch. I forgot, I also put a moose, I believe, air filter in it, but that's about the only mod I've done

[El Camexican]

Stock was likely in the middle of the needle on that trike, please confirm.

Also:
- Is it always cold outside when you notice the power storage?
- Is the power shortage intermittent, or constant?
- Have you looked at your intake manifold to see if it is cracked?
- Is that air filter you on oiled or dry?
- Have you checked your valve clearances?
- Did you remove the pilot jet and clean it? (small brass tube about 1/8" diameter and about 3/4" long located in front of the main jet, has about half a dozen holes in it)
- Did you do anything else to the carb when you had it apart?

Make sure you take your plug with you when you go to borrow that compression gauge so they can match the threads up to an adaptor if need be.

[barnett468]

Hello


It's late so I'll be quick everyone needs every question answered in detail to be able to best help you. Please check what everyone asks to get the best help.


1. Your plug may be misfiring trust me, you need a new one anyway to test jetting. I personally would not do anything other than what's been suggested above without a new one. It looks carbon fouled, this can cause spark to fire between porcelain and housing to create a misfire. It is typically not possible to get it all off by cleaning.

2, What color is gas coming out of fuel hose, apple juice color is bad near clear is good.

3. You say it runs fine then runs poorly please explain in detail.

When you accelerate from a stop or cruising speed does it "burble/sputter" [rich]or does it have a flat spot, or just "pop". Lean jetting jetting will rarely if ever make an engine pop if it is lean enough to cause this it will be a consistent problem not an intermittent one plus it will have a major flat spot upon acceleration.

[ColtonGG33]

Sound does not equate to power kids. Running an open pipe on a gas powered single cylinder engine adds no more power than putting playing cards on your bicycle spokes. In fact it will slow you down in most cases.

Fix your pipe before you bother doing anything other than checking your compression. Any good tuner will tell you that you can’t properly tune a vehicle with a poor exhaust system and unless you are running alcohol or nitro for fuel you need some backpressure. If your exhaust is indicative of the general condition of your trike you could have a number of problems that are combining to cause your power loss.

Are you sure about that? Because it allows the trike to flow better which essentially give it more power, and trust me it did, I had the old stock exhaust on it and when I did the new one it you can just tell my trike was running better

[Vealmonkey]

As usual, but people rarely mention it, Have you adjusted your clutch lately? Also, did you put your trike up in the air and made sure your brakes aren't dragging or that your front and rear axle bearings aren't binding? Checked your chain adjustments and oiled your chain? Try those too please.

[fabiodriven]

Are you sure about that? Because it allows the trike to flow better which essentially give it more power, and trust me it did, I had the old stock exhaust on it and when I did the new one it you can just tell my trike was running better

He is sure about that Colton. There are many men on this forum who have been there and done that. We were all kids once too. We all did what you are doing now. Do yourself a favor and don't perpetuate the stereotype of your generation. Read, watch, and learn. You think you're going faster because you're making a bunch of noise now. I can pretty much guarantee you're not going any faster and you've probably cost yourself a ton of very usable low-end power.

[El Camexican]

Are you sure about that? Because it allows the trike to flow better which essentially give it more power, and trust me it did, I had the old stock exhaust on it and when I did the new one it you can just tell my trike was running better

I'll give you this kid, you ain’t shy about opening yourself up to ridicule, but hey, what better way to learn.

FYI: There are only two reasonable ways I can think of to measure power changes. Timed 1/4" or 1/8" runs under similar conditions (that’s a long topic) and comparative dyno pulls on the same dyno. Anything else is folklore and bench racing BS.

PS. I think it’s cool that you appear to be scratching you head in your thumbnail, it suits you perfectly!:beer

[splangeland]

El Camexican: Yes, stock is with the clip in the middle.
- I have noticed problems in all temp ranges, I cant say cold was worse or hot was worse.
- Power is sometimes very intermittent. I was trying to race my brother on his dirtbike and when I was running wide open in fifth gear just on a straight shot down a dirt road, I could feel it cutting out. It would be running great then slow down then back to great again all without moving the throttle. When it slowed down the best way I can describe it I guess, it felt like it just wouldn't reach full rev's if that makes sense.
- By intake manifold do you mean the piece between the carb and the engine? If so, the most I have done was sprayed carb cleaner all around that general area to make sure I didn't have a leak.
- It's an oiled filter. I poured oil on it and kind of squeezed it around, then rung it out to make sure there wasn't excess oil.
- I checked valve clearances when I changed the head gasket.
- I didn't remove anything from the carb, other than the float and needle when I cleaned it. I just gave everything a good blast best I could multiple times. Taking them apart makes me nervous. I can take apart a lawnmower carb to clean it... but there's nothing to those.

barnett468:
1. I will to make sure and pick up a plug when I get the compression gauge tonight.
2.It's pretty close to clear. I do lawnmower repairs at the hardware store I work at and bad gas is the #1 problem so all of my gas has stabil in it ass soon as it comes from the pump.
3. The second dash under El Camexican's hopefully explains it a little better for you.
When I am cruising and rapidly let off the throttle, sometimes its a few really loud pops, sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going off. From a stop it sounds normal, just doesn't have the get up and go.

Vealmonkey: I just adjusted the clutch last week. As for getting it up in the air and checking the things you mentioned, I have not done that. I will do that tonight.

[Six Stroke]

Not sure if it'll help your situation, but my DX was popping and powerless after I resurrected it from a derelict state. It didn't have any power after it came off the pilot jet, so I ran the slide needle both ways - richer, then leaner - and it ran a little better when richened. Took the airbox off and it ran great. So, I put the box back on (it had a new Uni filter) and ran it with the back cover off...it still ran great. Put the cover back on, and it was back to the lean popping. I ended up removing the airbox-to-frame boot and I still run it that way, because something up in the frame tube was restricting airflow.

[El Camexican]

Aside from checking that your brakes and bearings are not hanging up as Veil Monkey mentioned I’d suggest the following:
- Check the compression as discussed.
- Pull the fuel line and see how fast it drains into a gas can. It won’t spray out, but it should almost fill a coffee cup in no more than 2 minutes. If it doesn’t, drain the tank and toss that fuel into a car. Then blow back into the fuel line in the ON position and again in the RES position. Add a gallon of fresh fuel and see if it flows any faster after that. If there is a big change you will want to remove the petcock and clean it and the tank at some point.
- Clear an area on a table and place an old white towel on it. Remove the carb (don’t be scared) and drain the fuel out of it and remove the float bowl screws. Take the float pin out and remove the floats and the needle.
- In the center of the bottom of the carb is the main jet. Using a 6 sided socket remove it. There should be a tube that it screws into. That tube should have a bunch of little holes in it. Use a sewing needle point to break any crud out of them and clean it with carb cleaner. Put it back in.
- In front of the main jet there should be a hole or tube cast into the carb body. Inside there is your pilot jet. Using as large a flat head screw driver as you can fit in there try to remove the jet. I’m not going to blow smoke up your azz, these can and do break and if that happens you may end up buying a new carb ($300 for OEM), but if it is plugged up your trike will never run right anyway, so no risk, no gain. Make sure you use a perfect condition screwdriver for this and any other carb work and that they are well seated into the screw heads before you apply preassure. This jet will have about 4 to 8 holes in it. They must be clean. When you are done put the jet back in and put the float back on the same way it came off as well as any little strainer screen that might be covering the main jet or the needle jet. Make sure it is clean too.
- Now you need to set your float height. Too much typing for me, so get on the internet and look it up, there are many videos and such out there.
- Set the needle clip back to the middle slot.
- Bolt it back on, turn the fuel on, count to 10 and fire it up.

If any of the holes were plugged you should see a night and day difference in the way the trike runs. Let us know what you find.

[Scootertrash]

I'll chime in my .02 on straight pipes for the new guy:
I was once told by mechanic when I knew much less than I do now that the "drag pipes" (it's a straight pipe with no baffle) that guys put on Harley's are called "drag pipes" for a reason. They're for drag racing. They don't develop enough back pressure until you are at wide open full throttle. Your engine needs back pressure to run properly. I won't go into all the technical crap that goes along with it, you'll just have to accept that us old guys know what we are talking about. ;)

Besides the fact that running a straight pipe sounds like crap and irritates the hell out of the other riders and public, who then make complaints and cause further restrictions on our riding. Bassani, SuperTrapp, DG and cobra pipes are loud enough and give you the back pressure you need for your engine to perform properly. Learn it. Live it. Love it. ;)

[ColtonGG33]

I am running a dg silencer on it. It's weird my whole life everyone said that a straight pipe will give it more power because it flows better? My dad who's been into cars and trikes and atvs always said that same thing, same as my brother who's a mechanic? But you guys know what's going on. But why do I feel like there is so much more power? Sorry for interrupting your post splangeland

[El Camexican]

I am running a dg silencer on it. It's weird my whole life everyone said that a straight pipe will give it more power because it flows better? My dad who's been into cars and trikes and atvs always said that same thing, same as my brother who's a mechanic? But you guys know what's going on. But why do I feel like there is so much more power? Sorry for interrupting your post splangeland

Who is "Everyone?" and exactly what are their life/modified engine experiences?

Restriction in an exhaust system in RELATION to the intake flow capability is not good for high RPM power, but to have an exhaust system that outflows the rest of your set-up simply allows un-burnt fuel to slip past the exhaust valves during the overlap cycle of the cam(s) and out the pipe where it burns up and comes out as a wasteful obnoxious noise to anyone who has an ear for a well-tuned engine. BTW the guy sitting in the driver’s seat has far less of an idea of how an engine sounds than the guy standing on the side of the track. Let you buddy rip past you on your trike a couple times and see if it still sounds good to you. Being “over-piped” and “over-carbed” are likely the two most common errors made when building up a vehicle. I’m guilty of doing it many times myself.

Look, I really like that young guys like you come on this site and have an interest in the nuts and bolts stuff as I am sure others do as well, so don't get put off, but PLEASE get a little education on the subject before you start stating absolutes about an open pipe making more power and such. Yes they can be of benefit and maybe that is what your sources were meaning, but it would likley require a blower, some nitro methane and a few aftermarket part$$$$ to be factual. In the case of this guy’s trike it simply isn’t true.

[Dave8338]

I'll give you this kid, you ain’t shy about opening yourself up to ridicule, but hey, what better way to learn.

FYI: There are only two reasonable ways I can think of to measure power changes. Timed 1/4" or 1/8" runs under similar conditions (that’s a long topic) and comparative dyno pulls on the same dyno. Anything else is folklore and bench racing BS.


PS. I think it’s cool that you appear to be scratching you head in your thumbnail, it suits you perfectly!:beer

Have you got time slips for those 1/8" and 1/4" runs? Just thinking an eighth of an inch, is a very short trip down the track.;)

[brd812]

Just a thought. Check the vent lines to the carb, and gas cap vent. I had a mud wasp make its home in my gas cap vent hose and starved my bike under hard acceleration to bog. I tore that carb down to mainly times to count. I found it on accident. My 2 cents

[splangeland]

Ok, I ended up just buying a compression tester. The guy at the counter pointed out that it is never a bad idea to take one along with you when you are going to look at a new toy, thread it in and you will instantly know if the engine has obvious problems. So, I tested my compression. I did it cold, the manual said to test it when engine was at operating temperature, but with wide open exhaust I try not to ride very late. It came back at roughly 150psi. I believe manual said maximum was 148psi. I then disassembled the carb and cleaned like El Camexian stated... Not so scary afterall :lol: There was a small amount of gunk inside the pilot, nothing substantial but there was a little. I also noticed that neither of the two juts were any too tight. Seemed kind of loose to me. I had checked the float height when I had the carb off a few weeks ago so, if I did it right that is still good to go. Like I said it was too late to take a spin with pipes this loud but believe me, it will be the first thing I do when I get home tomorrow.

As for the petcock, I just replaced that and the fuel line this fall. Just to be sure I took El Camexican's advice and checked it anyway. All was good. I forgot to check to see if the breaks were dragging so tomorrow I will check that. I will also try Six Stroke's, and Brd812's ideas.

Thanks for all the help so far guys! :beer

[El Camexican]

Have you got time slips for those 1/8" and 1/4" runs? Just thinking an eighth of an inch, is a very short trip down the track.;)

ha ha ha...Dick! :beer

[El Camexican]

Ok, I ended up just buying a compression tester. The guy at the counter pointed out that it is never a bad idea to take one along with you when you are going to look at a new toy, thread it in and you will instantly know if the engine has obvious problems. So, I tested my compression. I did it cold, the manual said to test it when engine was at operating temperature, but with wide open exhaust I try not to ride very late. It came back at roughly 150psi. I believe manual said maximum was 148psi. I then disassembled the carb and cleaned like El Camexian stated... Not so scary afterall :lol: There was a small amount of gunk inside the pilot, nothing substantial but there was a little. I also noticed that neither of the two juts were any too tight. Seemed kind of loose to me. I had checked the float height when I had the carb off a few weeks ago so, if I did it right that is still good to go. Like I said it was too late to take a spin with pipes this loud but believe me, it will be the first thing I do when I get home tomorrow.

As for the petcock, I just replaced that and the fuel line this fall. Just to be sure I took El Camexican's advice and checked it anyway. All was good. I forgot to check to see if the breaks were dragging so tomorrow I will check that. I will also try Six Stroke's, and Brd812's ideas.

Thanks for all the help so far guys! :beer

I so hope it runs good for you, but if not we continue... Sleep well.

[barnett468]

Hello


Good job so far, as mentioned check everything answer all questions in detail and perform tests as requested. Lots of info, easy to miss something or get overwhelmed , just print all this out, do one thing at a time. then scratch off the list. Do compression test do with gas off and throttle wide open.

Since your problem is intermittent it should not be caused by incorrect jet size, spark plug, electrical, low compression, ignition timing, bad gas, air cleaner over oiled or dirty, missing muffler, dragging brakes etc. Your problem simply shouldn’t exist as you describe it. It sounds to me like there is some critical detail missing in your description. Any idea?


Try acceleration test again from stop and from cruising speed with motor slight loaded down [too high of a gear].

Does it ever “burble” or “sputter” [rich condition]?

Does it simply have flat spot then accelerate [carb too big or jetting lean]?


The following is a bit of process of elimination based solely upon your description so far.

.xxxxx

“Sometimes it will run great,” “Power is sometimes very intermittent.”

Jetting will never cause intermittent problems simply because your jet size obviously doesn’t change itself however something in float bowl ie water, rust from tank etc, fuel restriction might but check carb as Camexican suggested.

Xxxxx

“I could feel it cutting out.”This refers to electrical like oil gas or carbon fouled plug or ignition.

If it does this when iyt is hot it is tyoically the ign coil.

xxxxx

“It would be running great then slow down then back to great again all without moving the throttle.”

This pretty much eliminates coil problem and probably plug and also dragging brakes.

xxxxx

I should have said when it is running good it will pop wheelies but most of the time its just slow and when I say slow I mean slooooow, I'm thinking my mini bike from Tractor Supply could just about out run this thing... Not quite but you get the idea.”

xxxxx

It also doesn't burn oil or anything so I was thinking it hopefully doesn't need a rebuild

If it did your [problem would not be intermittent and it would most likely never run as good as you say it does plus it would typically smoke.

xxxxx

“My exhaust is basically a straight pipe. The baffle was hacked out and where the muffler meets the head pipe is not really connected... that's my next project”

A blown out or missing muffler or straight pipe will not cause an intermittent problem. It will cause others as mentioned ie lean jetting, possible reduction in power over stock, and engine popping upon deceleration. They can cause “coughing” on acceleration not popping if not jetted properly.

xxxxx

“When I am cruising and rapidly let off the throttle, sometimes its a few really loud pops, sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going off. “

This throttle off popping condition is not caused by a lean condition. Most likely causes of this type of condition are leaking valves however if they leak bad enough to cause off throttle popping then they will cause popping under steady throttle and acceleration also so it is not your valves. Another cause is built up fuel. Lastly straight pipes typically pop exactly as you are describing for several reasons.

Xxxxx

“‘From a stop it sounds normal, just doesn't have the get up and go.”

Is this now a permanent problem or does it still run good at times?

xxxxx

Since your problem is intermittent it should not be caused by jetting, spark plug, electrical, low compression, ignition timing, bad gas, air cleaner over oiled or dirty, missing muffler, dragging brakes etc. Your problem simply shouldn’t exist as you describe it. It sounds to me like there is some critical detail missing in your description. Any idea?

If you are not exaggerating, providing your brakes are not heating up and dragging like veal monkey suggested that you look at, this is a very unusual case and a tough one.

xxxxx


Hope this info helps

[Scootertrash]

ha ha ha...Dick! :beer

I thought his name was dave :wondering

Good info in this thread!!

[El Camexican]

Hello


Good job so far, as mentioned check everything answer all questions in detail and perform tests as requested. Lots of info, easy to miss something or get overwhelmed , just print all this out, do one thing at a time. then scratch off the list. Do compression test do with gas off and throttle wide open.

Since your problem is intermittent it should not be caused by incorrect jet size, spark plug, electrical, low compression, ignition timing, bad gas, air cleaner over oiled or dirty, missing muffler, dragging brakes etc. Your problem simply shouldn’t exist as you describe it. It sounds to me like there is some critical detail missing in your description. Any idea?


Try acceleration test again from stop and from cruising speed with motor slight loaded down [too high of a gear].

Does it ever “burble” or “sputter” [rich condition]?

Does it simply have flat spot then accelerate [carb too big or jetting lean]?


The following is a bit of process of elimination based solely upon your description so far.

.xxxxx

“Sometimes it will run great,” “Power is sometimes very intermittent.”

Jetting will never cause intermittent problems simply because your jet size obviously doesn’t change itself however something in float bowl ie water, rust from tank etc, fuel restriction might but check carb as Camexican suggested.

Xxxxx

“I could feel it cutting out.”This refers to electrical like oil gas or carbon fouled plug or ignition.

If it does this when iyt is hot it is tyoically the ign coil.

xxxxx

“It would be running great then slow down then back to great again all without moving the throttle.”

This pretty much eliminates coil problem and probably plug and also dragging brakes.

xxxxx

I should have said when it is running good it will pop wheelies but most of the time its just slow and when I say slow I mean slooooow, I'm thinking my mini bike from Tractor Supply could just about out run this thing... Not quite but you get the idea.”

xxxxx

It also doesn't burn oil or anything so I was thinking it hopefully doesn't need a rebuild

If it did your [problem would not be intermittent and it would most likely never run as good as you say it does plus it would typically smoke.

xxxxx

“My exhaust is basically a straight pipe. The baffle was hacked out and where the muffler meets the head pipe is not really connected... that's my next project”

A blown out or missing muffler or straight pipe will not cause an intermittent problem. It will cause others as mentioned ie lean jetting, possible reduction in power over stock, and engine popping upon deceleration. They can cause “coughing” on acceleration not popping if not jetted properly.

xxxxx

“When I am cruising and rapidly let off the throttle, sometimes its a few really loud pops, sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going off. “

This throttle off popping condition is not caused by a lean condition. Most likely causes of this type of condition are leaking valves however if they leak bad enough to cause off throttle popping then they will cause popping under steady throttle and acceleration also so it is not your valves. Another cause is built up fuel. Lastly straight pipes typically pop exactly as you are describing for several reasons.

Xxxxx

“‘From a stop it sounds normal, just doesn't have the get up and go.”

Is this now a permanent problem or does it still run good at times?

xxxxx

Since your problem is intermittent it should not be caused by jetting, spark plug, electrical, low compression, ignition timing, bad gas, air cleaner over oiled or dirty, missing muffler, dragging brakes etc. Your problem simply shouldn’t exist as you describe it. It sounds to me like there is some critical detail missing in your description. Any idea?

If you are not exaggerating, providing your brakes are not heating up and dragging like veal monkey suggested that you look at, this is a very unusual case and a tough one.

xxxxx


Hope this info helps

The great thing about all this is that he isn't scared to get his hands dirty and doesn't take three days off between posts. As he checks and fixes each issue he will either solve the main problem, or stumble onto it as he goes through the trike. I like your post, but now that we know he has squeeze in the engine I'm stuck on this being a fuel/air issue until the process of elimination is over.

[Six Stroke]

“When I am cruising and rapidly let off the throttle, sometimes its a few really loud pops, sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going off. “

This throttle off popping condition is not caused by a lean condition. Most likely causes of this type of condition are leaking valves however if they leak bad enough to cause off throttle popping then they will cause popping under steady throttle and acceleration also so it is not your valves. Another cause is built up fuel. Lastly straight pipes typically pop exactly as you are describing for several reasons.

I had an XS650 for a while that would lean pop after you cut the throttle. Bumped up the pilot size and it took care of it.

[Dave8338]

I thought his name was dave :wondering

Good info in this thread!!

It is. I think he must have me confused with someone named Richard. :D :twisted:

[splangeland]

Ok, Cleaning my jets seems to have helped quite a bit. It definitely has more pep in its step now :p I ran down a dirt road quite a few times and I don't seem to have the problem where I felt like it was cutting in and out. However, when I first bought this and I took it down the road I can remember being wide open if fifth gear and all I could think is, "Man this thing needs a sixth gear". Now, when I'm wide open in fifth I definitely don't feel that way, it just doesn't scream like it used to. I did try loading it down and noticed a slight kind of burble, but it was something you really had to listen for as you could hardly hear it. It also wasn't a constant sound more of just when you shifted into a high gear and tried to gun it. I also took the air box lid off and ran it down the road and I think it made it run worse.

I did check the breaks and everything spun freely. So I guess conclusion of the day, It's pretty peppy again but still feels like its missing some top end power. Also, seemes to take a loooong time to warm up.

[El Camexican]

So glad to hear this!

I think you are ready for fine tuning the jetting. How cold is it there? I know you are thinking about top end right now, but to get there you need to start at the bottom. Start your engine, let it get to operating temp and then blip throttle all the way open as fast as you can. Does it bog at all? If it doesn't, start turning the air/fuel screw in or out 1/4 turn at a time until it does and then adjust it back to the last place it didn't bog. On the hand if it does bog at the current setting (and Im guessing it will) play with the screw until you get it cleared up in 1/4 turn increments. Once you are happy with this and are getting good crisp throttle response. Turn the screw all the way closed, note the turns and then put it back to where you had it. Tell us that number in a post.

Now take it for a rip. Don't bother top ending it yet, just 0 to 3/4. Regardless of how good it might seem to run, pull the needle and raise the clip up one notch and go for another rip. Is it better or worse? If its better go one notch more and repeat. If it got worse go down two notches. Repeat untill it seems to be running best. Providing the turns on the screw are not more than 2.5 out from closed (if they are we'll talk) you are now ready to play with the main jet. Do you have some available? If not you'll need to invest in two sizes each way from what you have in there now. Talk more after you post again.

[splangeland]

Question before I get to this tomorrow. Will a new muffler get rid of my need to to jet my carb? I cant seem to find any carb parts for this except buying individual parts off the OEM diagram. I found a nice OEM muffler that I'm trying to get. Oh and its been 40°-50° up here

[ColtonGG33]

It would probably be best if you get an original exhaust, I was looking for a jet kit and they do not sell them anywhere, and you will not have to jet it unless it has been jetted for the exhaust on it now, glad you have it running good, your gonna really like it

[barnett468]

Hello

A new muffler will be more restrictive than your no muffler straight pipe. In short this will cause your jetting to be more rich. This will also cause your bike to warm up a bit faster because it is trapping a little more of the hot exhaust gas in the cylinder. This increased back pressure will not have a major effect on your pilot jet so if it takes full choke at 60 deg or less and doesn't start quickly and you can not totally remove the choke within around 60 seconds and still have it idle you may need to go up 1-2 sizes on the pilot. It is possible that in your particular case that a new muffler will increase your peak rpm.

How far out is your idle screw currently adjusted?


Hooe this info helps.

[El Camexican]

Question before I get to this tomorrow. Will a new muffler get rid of my need to to jet my carb? I cant seem to find any carb parts for this except buying individual parts off the OEM diagram. I found a nice OEM muffler that I'm trying to get. Oh and its been 40°-50° up here

Looks like you’re going to have to choose which advise you’re going to follow as some of us seem to be in disagreement on a few topics.

First of all (in my humble opinion) it doesn’t matter what pipe you have on there you should still take the time to jet it if you want it to run its best. Yamaha took their best shot at jetting it when they shipped it to the US, but the odds that it was perfect for your conditions are slim and none. Close? Yes. Safe? For sure! Perfect? No!!!

Getting something jetted perfectly is a moving target, it can change in an hour due to humidity levels, atmospheric pressure and temperature, but don’t let this scare you, worrying about a small change in air temp is for bracket racers to work about, not you. If you get yours dialed in while its 50F outside and don’t ride in conditions that vary more than 2,000’in elev., or in temps below -20F you’ll be fine forever. If you want to get fussy you can adjust that air/fuel screw if you ever feel a bog when you nail the throttle, but the other jets should be fine.

Contact these guys for rebuild kits and jets. http://www.jetsrus.com/customer_service/mailing_address.html

Do get that OEM pipe if you can, a lot of really smart guys designed it to work for your trike.

As far as some of the comments on here about what does what to your jetting needs, i.e. unrestricted pipes make engines run leaner etc. I’d take it all with a grain of salt. There are way too many variables involved to make absolute statements like that and being that MOST vehicles from that era came jetted for sea level conditions, they are too rich to start with. Besides, do you even know if you have stock jets in that carb?

You can’t “guess” jetting until you have set a baseline at some point. You don’t have one, all you know is that your trike ran better at some point. While it does seem you are a little lean on the pilot (and this may end up being fixed just with the screw adjustment) I suspect you are rich on the main, but until you go up a size and make it even richer to be certain you can’t be sure. You don’t want to start by dropping a size and burning a hole in your piston on a hunch. Yea jets cost money, but once you have the jetting nailed you’ll be glad you invested in the time and brass to do it.

[barnett468]

Hello Spangeland


Hope your carb repair fixed part if not all of your biggest problem.

“There was a small amount of gunk inside the pilot, nothing substantial but there was a little. I also noticed that neither of the two juts were any too tight. Seemed kind of loose to me. I had checked the float height when I had the carb off a few weeks ago so, if I did it right that is still good to go. Like I said it was too late to take a spin with pipes this loud but believe me, it will be the first thing I do when I get home tomorrow.”

Yes, the gunk in jets and loose jets certainly weren’t helping. Hopefully this fix along with your pipe will get you very close.


El Camexican, the following is mainly just an explanation of how the major factory’s bikes were actually jetted during my time at Kawi R and D and is not intended to devalue the content of your posts. I read everyone’s post completely in every topic I post to and I think you as well as most others make a genuine effort to actually help people… So please take no offense in it.

Xxxxx

‘Yamaha took their best shot at jetting it when they shipped it to the US, but the odds that it was perfect for your conditions are slim and none. Close? Yes. Safe? For sure! Perfect? No!!!”

Not really, they were actually jetted on the dyno in Japan first then sent out for testing which included jet testing. Afterwards the bikes were sent to us Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki with Japan’s best overall jet setting. From there we all did the final jet testing/setting in So Cal. This setting was sent to Japan.

xxxx

Contact these guys for rebuild kits and jets. http://www.jetsrus.com/customer_serv...g_address.html

Good info

xxxxx

Do get that OEM pipe if you can, a lot of really smart guys designed it to work for your trike.

Correct, and good info as a rule of thumb but aftermarket pipes and/or silencers will provide aften improve the overall performance on an otherwise stock vehicle providing it is jetted accordingly after installation. Removing the silencer on the t3 Tecates and replacing them with low restriction non spark arrestor type silencers substantially improved overall performance.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

“MOST vehicles from that era came jetted for sea level conditions”

Not really, not a single bike that went through the US R and D dept’s of any od the mfg’s I mentioned were ever specifically jetted for sea level. We all tested our respective vehicles at above sea level conditions in places like Saddleback, De Anza, Carlsbad, Gorman and Indian Dunes motorcycle parks as well as the high desert and various other locations etc. We never even had a bike anywhere near sea level.

xxxxx

“they are too rich to start with.”

Most off road bikes seem to be, at least I have personally never seen a lean factory jetted bike. Kawi's were typically jetted close to perform well between the locations I previously mentioned however Japan did frequently up the main by 1 size from our recommended best setting. Japan told us that this was to hopefully prevent lean condition engine failures and subsequently minimize warranties. I have to guess that this was the same for the other mfg’s since I had long time friends that worked at both Honda and Yamaha R and D and they certainly knew how to jet bikes. I personally jetted every single Kawi ATV and several off road motorcycles while I was there, what Japan did to mess them up after that was beyond my control.

xxxxx

“Besides, do you even know if you have stock jets in that carb?”

Still a good question.

Xxxxx

I like your post, but now that we know he has squeeze in the engine I'm stuck on this being a fuel/air issue until the process of elimination is over.

Oh, I am not ruling that out either along with several other things as well. My process of elimination comments were based upon the information provided by Spangeland and was subject to the accuracy and completeness of those comments. However his “gummy” carb and loose jets certainly weren’t helping his bikes condition at all. After you recommended he look at his carb I eluded to the same thing in a subsequent post concurring with your suggestion.

Xxxxx

From six stroke’s post

“I had an XS650 for a while that would lean pop after you cut the throttle. Bumped up the pilot size and it took care of it.”

Yes, I absolutely agree that in some off throttle deceleration straight pipe engine popping cases this can occasionally help reduce the severity of the condition and occasionally totally eliminate it. My previous comment regarding this specific issue was aimed at Spangeland’s specific case and if my comment is read within the context in which it was made this should hopefully explain the reason I made it. At the time I made it I saw no need for going into any more specific detail than I did in this particular case.

Sorry for any confusion it might of caused.

[El Camexican]

Barrnet468

What I like about this site is that aside from the interaction, the members such as yourself have very diverse backgrounds the arena of motorsports as well as life. Whatever you may think offends me, or that I have done which was perceived to have been meant to offend you let’s get past it. I had issue with the falloutboy post yesterday and now I've said my piece and I’m over it. Should you chose to disagree with my opinion or advice at any point in the future I look forward to the read and learning from it.

That all said you seem to have been involved with some high level tuning, something I never did for anyone outside of my circle of friends/clients. Your latest post is very informative, but I am surprised with your comments about the jetting i.e Japan sends, you test, they change etc. Were you conducting your tests in a controlled environment, or on a track? Would you agree with me stating that air density, which in my learning’s is all that really matters in terms of what is going through your carb and into your engine, can vary a few thousand feet in the same patch of land, on the same day within the time span of a few hours?

When I was drag racing I recall corrected elevation conditions of -1,000ft at 9:00am and by 2:00pm eliminations we were at +2,000ft and running 3/10ths slower. So what has me scratching my head here is why would a factory in Japan which surely could afford to simulate a variety of conditions in a controlled dyno room choose to send bikes to the US for jetting tests in ever changing conditions? Or was it primarily for suspension and handling tests and jetting was just part of getting ready to do that?

And finally, I swear that in my old 1979 Yamaha manual, or handbook stated that my bike came jetted to sea-level conditions and that I was to jet it upon receipt. I also recall reading that in other places, but I’d be hard pressed to remember where. Anyway, just curious, but I would like to see this guy get his trike jetted perfectly for his average conditions and not just revert back to whatever it came with.

Commenting further on your last post in no particular order, I continue to suspect most if not all his problems are jet related and have experienced intermittent “fall on its face” symptoms due to ‘floaters” in a dirty carb more than once, its especialy bad if other holes are plugged. I’ve never had a jet come loose, but a few guys on here have, not sure how loose his were, but it it was a lot that could be all of it. I hope this is all he has to deal with.

As far as a stock pipe holding back power, I’m sure many models did, especially race oriented ones like the T3, but I am intimately familiar with the 200cc version of his workhorse motor and have been kicking myself for tossing away my perfectly good stocker and putting on a Cobra which I have yet to finish jetting for. That bike's pipe was well designed for the application.

Some bikes did come lean. One I can think of was the 1985 GSXR had a very lean midrange that was caused in part by the float height and the factory fuel screw settings, but for the most part most do seem to come nice and safe.

As far as his symptom descriptions, yea he was a little scattered in the first posts, but at least it wasn’t one of those “It makes a clunk noise like after you flush the toilet, then it hauls azz, then it stalls, but only when I run premium fuel and wear my red t-shirt” type posts. It’s frustrating when you try an diagnose something from across the continent knowing full well you could fix it in 15 minutes if it was in your shop, but such is life. The good news is that he is listening, reacting and communicating. A lot of kids, post and disappear without so much as an “up yers” and the result is that a lot of smart, experienced guys on here won’t even answer a question until the member looks like they are going to respond accordingly.

That said I am glad to see that you have not yet been jaded like this towards newbs and hope you never are.:beer

[splangeland]

My main focus for now is going to be exhaust, since I need it to legally ride trails around here and its just plain annoying. I am bidding on a muffler right now. I'm not sure if I will have enough money to get a muffler and jets but I'm going to try. I was thinking of maybe taking it to the dunes this summer so I will definitely want to be running absolutely peak performance if I can but for now I need a muffler so the man with the green britches doesn't write me a ticket.

[El Camexican]

My main focus for now is going to be exhaust, since I need it to legally ride trails around here and its just plain annoying. I am bidding on a muffler right now. I'm not sure if I will have enough money to get a muffler and jets but I'm going to try. I was thinking of maybe taking it to the dunes this summer so I will definitely want to be running absolutely peak performance if I can but for now I need a muffler so the man with the green britches doesn't write me a ticket.

Cool! No point to jetting till its on, but you may want to at least play with the air/fuel screw if you plan to use it before getting the pipe on it.

[splangeland]

Yeah I was hoping to play with it when I got home today but its 30 and pouring rain... just to cold for me. I don't work tomorrow so I hope to get at it first thing tomorrow

[barnett468]

My main focus for now is going to be exhaust, since I need it to legally ride trails around here and its just plain annoying. I am bidding on a muffler right now. I'm not sure if I will have enough money to get a muffler and jets but I'm going to try. I was thinking of maybe taking it to the dunes this summer so I will definitely want to be running absolutely peak performance if I can but for now I need a muffler so the man with the green britches doesn't write me a ticket.


Hello Splangeland


In regards to your posts 32 and 34, as I previously mentioned and so did El Camexican and possibly others, I wouldn’t worry about jetting until your muffler is installed.

Any LESS popping?

A good oem spark arrester/muffler may be very hard to come by. No sparky, no ridey, bad green man will cometh with ticket book as you mentioned, lol. I would take the jet money and put it towards the pipe right now. Jets are easy to come by, and your bike seems to run better now anyway so…

I replied to El Camexican’s questions for me below only because I though some of the info might help or at least be interesting to you. Sorry for the long post.

xxxxx

Barrnet468

“What I like about this site is that aside from the interaction, the members such as yourself have very diverse backgrounds the arena of motorsports as well as life.”

Yes me too.

Xxxxx

“Whatever you may think offends me, or that I have done which was perceived to have been meant to offend you let’s get past it. I had issue with the falloutboy post yesterday and now I've said my piece and I’m over it.”

If anyone objectively reads my post regarding this with an open and objective mind they will understand it. I don’t condone are accept those sort of comments and behavior in the context of which they were written from anyone nor should anyone else ever!

xxxxx

“Should you chose to disagree with my opinion or advice at any point in the future I look forward to the read and learning from it.”

That’s a rare attitude to have, I have the same however I never debate “facts” they are simply there to accept or not accept.

xxxxx

“That all said you seem to have been involved with some high level tuning, something I never did for anyone outside of my circle of friends/clients.”

I don't know how to answer this question without sounding arrogant which I am not but here’s a short answer for which I'm guessing I will get flack for anyway, lol. Among many other things I have done I have probably easily done over 700 jet changes on both bikes and cars in my life including drilling, filing, cutting and other carb mods etc., and no it is not because I do not know what I am doing, lol. The long term Kawi MX race mechanics have probably done as many or maybe more.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

“Your latest post is very informative”

Thanks, nice to hear. I am actually somewhat human, lol.

Xxxxx

“I am surprised with your comments about the jetting i.e Japan sends, you test, they change etc. Were you conducting your tests in a controlled environment, or on a track?”

With regards to your specific question, I personally did all tests outdoors.

xxxxx

“Would you agree with me stating that air density, which in my learning’s is all that really matters in terms of what is going through your carb and into your engine, can vary a few thousand feet in the same patch of land, on the same day within the time span of a few hours?”

Sorry, I don’t quite understand your question. It is not because I don’t understand the effects of air density and other environmental conditions on all aspects if an engines performance. I think you have 2 or more questions here. In short air density plays a significant roke in jetting but is in no means the ONLY onbe that does. The race teams kept logs of elevation, humidity and air temp and the best jetting for those conditions so when they went to the next track they could simply refer to their notes and quickly gwt it jetted close quickly. Jeff Ward was laid back and patient, Goat Brecker could care less how his bike ran just pin it. Others had different attitudes and the mechanic didn’t want to rile them by fiddling with jetting all practice.

Think about this if you want, for every 1000 feet increase in elevation a gas engine will LOOSE around 5 psi of cranking compression [this is different than static compression] ie. An engine with a cranking compression of 150 psi at sea level [like many used bikes have] and take it up the mountain to 10,000 feet it will then have a cranking compression of 100 psi, [5x10=50 subtracted from 150]. A gas engine needs a minimum of approximately 105 cranking compression to run therefore it simply will not have enough compression to do so and one can try and jet it from here till next Sunday and it still never will. It’s simple physics.

Xxxxx

“When I was drag racing I recall corrected elevation conditions of -1,000ft at 9:00am and by 2:00pm eliminations we were at +2,000ft and running 3/10ths slower.”

Absolutely I am very familiar with how they calculate times [world records] in drag racing. If you research or watch drags on tv you will also hear them talk about the percentage of bits per million or whatever of water in the air [humidity]. The big guys take this into account for jetting as well as for traction conditions and combine this info with other info to set up their jetting, timing and clutch slippage accordingly. Unbelievably scientific now.

xxxxx

“what has me scratching my head here is why would a factory in Japan which surely could afford to simulate a variety of conditions in a controlled dyno room choose to send bikes to the US for jetting tests in ever changing conditions?”

I have never seen an environmentally controlled dyno room. Both the ones in Japan and at US R and D were enclosed for safety and noise considerations only. A very famous guy named Rob Muzzy tested the factory Superbikes on the dyno at kawi 50’ from my desk. I could literally feel the vibration through the floor and on occasion they would grenade big time and I actually heard parts hit the dyno room walls on one occasion, lol. Then I would hear a bit of colorful language from a very unhappy Muzzy.

Dynos work great and we would be lost without them. Drag racing is done under more controlled conditions than an off road bike in the dunes so as far as jetting goes they are simply a guide. Keep in mind the drag guys dyno the heck out of their motors and never, ever use the dyno jetting for the actual on track jetting. It simply doesn’t work that way.

On the 86 t3 prototype they sent me the a few different pipes along with the jet settings and DYNO sheets and said pick the one that works best in the field. Strangely enough the pipe that worked best under actually “race” type conditions as well as “recreational” sand riding etc, produced LESS hp/tq than the pipe that had the most on the dyno. Anyone with extensive dyno and real world driving/riding experience will tell you, “you can’t drive a dyno”. It’s best not to get “married” to the results.

The 86 t3 prototype had a ping [detonation] under some conditions which were difficult to replicate on the dyno. They asked me to try and jet it out. I spent 2 weeks doing this. Harry Klemm even offered to make us a cylinder head with a different squish band which he did and it might have helped a little but Japan wasn’t interested in that. I told them all along it was the restrictive muffler/spark arrester but that obviously couldn’t be changed. Thank goodness they decided to leave it and not lower the compression or change port timing or reduce ign advance etc.

Back then we at US R and D didn’t have a cad program until around 1986. All drawings were done by HAND. If a bike could be perfectly designed on paper or the computer then no one would need an R and D dept. They are much closer to doing this now than before however.

xxxxx

“was it primarily for suspension and handling tests and jetting was just part of getting ready to do that?”

Yes, a prototype bike was never tested for jetting only and nothing else.

xxxxx

“ I swear that in my old 1979 Yamaha manual, or handbook stated that my bike came jetted to sea-level conditions and that I was to jet it upon receipt. I also recall reading that in other places”

LOL, LOL Yes I’m sure you are 100% correct. I remember a similar thing somewhere and in fact the Kawi manual may have said this exact same thing. The simple answer is that this statement is a blatant LIE but an excusable one. The mfg’s very well knew that due to the varied conditions an off road bike might be used under it might need to be rejetted from stock to optimize performance. This comment would have been made for two reasons, 1. They did not want someone buying a bike, riding it, having it run poorly, then having the customer bad mouthing the bike as this could potentially diminish sales. 2. They did not want someone to wash out their rings or seize a piston etc because they did not want to pay for warranties that otherwise could have been avoided. The mfg’s truly wanted the customer to be happy.

You will never, ever see a street legal bike make this statement, the reason is mentioned in a comment below.

xxxxx

“Anyway, just curious, but I would like to see this guy get his trike jetted perfectly for his average conditions and not just revert back to whatever it came with.”

I would too.

xxxxx

“I continue to suspect most if not all his problems are jet related and have experienced intermittent “fall on its face” symptoms due to ‘floaters” in a dirty carb more than once”

I have had this exact “floater’ problem several times before this is why I eluded to this being a possibility in a previous post. You will find it if you re-read them.

xxxxx

“I’ve never had a jet come loose, but a few guys on here have, not sure how loose his were, but it it was a lot that could be all of it. I hope this is all he has to deal with.”

Yes

xxxx

“As far as a stock pipe holding back power, I’m sure many models did, especially race oriented ones like the T3, but I am intimately familiar with the 200cc version of his workhorse motor and have been kicking myself for tossing away my perfectly good stocker and putting on a Cobra which I have yet to finish jetting for. That bike's pipe was well designed for the application.”

I never said it wasn’t, in fact my recent post says specifically that he may increase his peak rpm by installing a new stock pipe which will be more restrictive than his existing straight one.

xxxxx

“Some bikes did come lean. One I can think of was the 1985 GSXR had a very lean midrange that was caused in part by the float height and the factory fuel screw settings, but for the most part most do seem to come nice and safe.”

I never said some bikes did NOT come please re-read my previous post. I said I never saw an OFF ROAD bike come lean. In fact many ON HIGHWAY bikes come on the verge of being lean for sure. The difference being that the off road bikes have no EPA requirements regarding emissions but the on highway ones are heavily regulated in this regard.

xxxxx

“As far as his symptom descriptions, yea he was a little scattered in the first posts, but at least it wasn’t one of those “It makes a clunk noise like after you flush the toilet, then it hauls azz, then it stalls, but only when I run premium fuel and wear my red t-shirt” type posts.”

Yes, I think he did a very good job. It is very, very hard to describe conditions if one is not an expert in a specific area. I think few if any us could describe how to do heart surgery, lol.

Xxxxx

“It’s frustrating when you try an diagnose something from across the continent knowing full well you could fix it in 15 minutes if it was in your shop, but such is life.”

Yup, to say the least.

Xxxxx

“The good news is that he is listening, reacting and communicating.”

Same answer as above.

xxxxx

“A lot of kids, post and disappear without so much as an “up yers” and the result is that a lot of smart, experienced guys on here won’t even answer a question until the member looks like they are going to respond accordingly.”

Yes, I understand. I think that ANY type of follow up or final response irregardless of what it is is better than nothing. At least if it’s an “up yers” it would still be entertaining and therefore have value in my opinion, lol.

Xxxxx

“That said I am glad to see that you have not yet been jaded like this towards newbs and hope you never are.”

I am far from being the most patient person in the but I enjoy at least TRYING to help others IF I think I can, PROVIDING they make at least some sort of attempt to help themselves by simply THOROUGHLY reading ALL HELPFUL replies no matter who makes them. I don’t care if they don’t understand them but “PLEASE don’t ask the EXACT same question that was just answered in the post directly above yours” , come on now however I will not berate someone for doing this either, I will simply refer them to the post in which their duplicate question is answered. I realize it can be overwhelming for an inexperienced mechanic or other to assimilate some of the info and things can easily be missed in some posts.

If I am “jaded” at all it would be due to those instances referred to in your first comment at the top of this post.


Regards

[splangeland]

Yeah there was definitely less popping going on. There was still some but I figure that's to be expexted like you guys said with crap exhaust. It seemed a little harder to start but it may have just been because it was a little colder than it had been. As far as the long post, this cool with me. I enjoy reading all the info and hearing about all the cool stuff you guys have done. Its also nice to see that two people can have a disagreement and have a civil discussion rather than just skipping the shouting and name calling. Too often nowadays somebody disagrees with a nother person and never stops to listen to the persons reasons on why they think they may be wrong, and it goes from a discussion to an all out idiotic brawl.

[Scootertrash]

Hello Splangeland
<snip>
Regards


Holy wall of text Batman!!! ;) :lol:

[splangeland]

Alright so, I turned my pilot in untill I heard the engine change and that backed it out 1/4 of a turn. I had it set at stock which is turn in untill it lightly seats and then back it out 1 1/2 turns. I ended up turninf it in about 1/2 a turn I think. I didn't get a chance to play with the needled. I did notice though, if I turn it off even for a minute it will go back to the problem I had before. You can hammer the gas and just have no acceleration. You can feel that it wants to get up and go bu it just wont do it. It only lasts for a minute or two then goes back to full power. Outran my buddies blaster. When it gets "the problem" it sounds, wet fartish I guess is the best way I can describe it

[redsox]

I wish i knew 1/100th of what these guys know. this thread is awesome!!!! this site is awesome.

[El Camexican]

Alright so, I turned my pilot in untill I heard the engine change and that backed it out 1/4 of a turn. I had it set at stock which is turn in untill it lightly seats and then back it out 1 1/2 turns. I ended up turninf it in about 1/2 a turn I think. I didn't get a chance to play with the needled. I did notice though, if I turn it off even for a minute it will go back to the problem I had before. You can hammer the gas and just have no acceleration. You can feel that it wants to get up and go bu it just wont do it. It only lasts for a minute or two then goes back to full power. Outran my buddies blaster. When it gets "the problem" it sounds, wet fartish I guess is the best way I can describe it

You've lost me. "Feel a change"? It should have stalled after a couple seconds if you closed the screw. Did you snap the throttle open from idle with the engine warm and adjust till there was no bog? How many turns from closed are you now, one? Is your screw located closer to the air box from the carb slide, or closer to the engine? I really need to know this. Watch this video. It is about a 2 stroke, but the principals are the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVzqqpgviyI

[barnett468]

Hello


Read your previous post very good.

I am guessing you still have your old pipe. I know you want to try and fix what you can until you get your pipe but if you change too much now you may be redoing things again once it is on as I and others previously mentioned.

xxxxx

Alright so, I turned my pilot in untill I heard the engine change and that backed it out 1/4 of a turn. I had it set at stock which is turn in untill it lightly seats and then back it out 1 1/2 turns. I ended up turninf it in about 1/2 a turn I think. I didn't get a chance to play with the needled.

Why did you change the screw setting?

Once the screw setting was changed did it continually idle steady or did the idle rpm change up or down?

If idle changed after idling a while how long did it take to change?

When it is warm does it restart and idle EXACTLY the same?

xxxxx

I did notice though, if I turn it off even for a minute it will go back to the problem I had before.

What problem exactly are you talking about, idle or acceleration flat spot?

When it decides to run well EXACTLY how long does it run well for, the ENTIRE time you keep it running or does it still revert back to the no power condition?

xxxxx

You can the gas and just have no acceleration. You can feel that it wants to get up and go bu it just wont do it. It only lasts for a minute or two then goes back to full power.


It either goes or it doesn’t, how can you determine it wants to go? Please don’t use this type of description it isn’t helpful, it is not SCIENTIFIC. Use the following.

1. It “burbles/sputters [too rich] upon acceleration.

2. I does NOT burble/sputter upon acceleration, it simply “bogs” [same as flat spot] which is too lean.

3. It “pops” or intermittently cuts out like an electrical short.

Is this now an INTERMITTENT problem or constant?

xxxxx

Outran my buddies blaster. When it gets "the problem" it sounds, wet fartish I guess is the best way I can describe it

Please describe “fartish” by using one of the explanations/terms I mentioned above.

[barnett468]

Hello Splangeland and El Camexican


"I had it set at stock which is turn in untill it lightly seats and then back it out 1 1/2 turns. I ended up turninf it in about 1/2 a turn I think."

1 1/2 out from full in, then beck in 1/2 = 1 turn out from full in, is this correct?

[splangeland]

El Camexican: What I did was let it idle and just turned the screw in t 1/4 turn increments while it was idling. I did it until the engine slowed down then I turned it back 1/4 turn. Now after watching that video I see that I should have done it how you described. After I turned the screw back 1/4 turn when it slowed down I just jabbed the throttle to make sure it didn't bog and called it good. Now I will do it how you described. My screw is located on the complete bottom side of the carb towards the engine. My manual says you have to take it off to adjust it but with a little ingenuity you can do it while it on the trike. I am about 1 turn from closed.

Barbett468: Yes its still my old pipe. The auction doesn't end for another 4 days. I played with the screw like Camexican said in post 33 but now discovered I did it wrong so I will have to re-do it. I would like to get it as close to how it should be without my muffler so it runs good in case I don't win the muffler. When I turned the screw in once I turned it in the last 1/4 down the engine slowed down almost immediately so I turned it a 1/4 turn back. The idle was steady. As far as I can remember it starts and idles the same. When I turn it off for a second that's when I have acceleration problem. Once it runs good it stays running good until I shut it off again. I am not 100% positive since I've don't know what it would sound like but I would say it doesn't burble/sputter but I wouldn't say it really bogs either its just plain slow. Example; We got to the end of a road and shut them off so we could talk. We fired them back up and decided to race. I mashed the gas and just plain had no acceleration, but once I was through about 4th gear I gained my acceleration and when we came to a stop and raced it again it ran just fine. As far as wet fartish, I don't know how to explain that I'm sorry. Yes the screw was about 1 turn out from closed.

[barnett468]

Hello

I don't remember if someone mentioned this yet, sorry if it's a repeat. With your new info it sounds EXACTLY like your mechanical ignition advance is sticking. Runs fine untill you turn it off, then it sticks and runs bad untill it breaks free again from centrifugal force. Once it is broken free it can not not lock up untill you stop because there is too much centrifugal force on it to allow it to.

Take a look at it CLOSELY if all looks good and feel free then just grease it anyway and try again. check scarring on bushings check EVERYTHING.


Hope this works.

[splangeland]

Someby had said something about that on a thread I started earlier but I thought it was all done through cdi on these

[barnett468]

Someby had said something about that on a thread I started earlier but I thought it was all done through cdi on these


Hello

Yes I just looked it up that is correct, bummer. At this point all I can think of is to just get a new carb and if that doesn't do it then get another CDI.

[barnett468]

Hello


Here is another manual. I posted one earlier also.


IGNITION PICK UP UNDER CAM GEAR

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/Yamaha/ytm200-225-fm200l.pdf

[El Camexican]

Your symptom of running good one time and then being way down on power the second time is bazaar. The electronics should not fluctuate, you don’t have a mechanical advance mechanism and your carb is clean, so any problem with it should be consistent. The only thing that makes sense at this point is that your brakes are sticking intermittently as was mentioned before. i.e. All is well, you stop, and the brake does not release and then the next time you start it and drive the brakes are dragging and holding back the engine. Then, say in forth gear you hit a bump and they free up. Take a good look at them. Next time you stop, roll the trike back and forth before you take off again to see if they are free and if you still have the same problem without touching the brakes. Also, if it is running poorly stop and see if the brakes are hot. Some people end up putting their foot on the rear brake without realizing it. If you are doing that the brake will be hot enough to fry your hand.

Oh, we now know that your "screw" is a fuel screw, not an air screw, so the more you open it the more fuel comes in. If it is taking forever to run without the choke you need to open it (turn it out) If you get to 2.5 turns out and it still bogs and takes a long time to come off the choke you need a larger pilot jet.

[barnett468]

Hello

Looks to me El Camexican is also using they process of elimination process like the one I previously posted and has also come up with an expansion of vealmnonkey’s previous suggestion. I think you should try his suggestion first. Then if you are sure it is not your problem I think you are relegated to simply changing parts one at a time like I mentioned.


An electrical part can have an intermittent problem however it is half way uncommon. This typically occurs after the part gets hot then it works again when it is cool.


Is your problem only when it is hot?

If you instantly stop then restart it does the problem occur?

Unfortunately looks like the end of the line

[splangeland]

Well guys I just don't know anymore. I spent the better part of this afternoon dinkin' around with the carb. It seemed like no matter how much adjustment I made it never really seemed to bog like the dirtbike in the video. It was actually really hard to even notice a slight difference. I moved the clip on the needle up and down and couldn't say as I really saw to much of a difference. When I felt a loss of power I jumped off and grabbed the breaks and they weren't really hot. Whenever it looses power it pops really bad. Normally it doesn't really pop but when it looses power it sounds like a machine gun going off when you let off the gas. I just got done riding it a little while ago so I'm going let it cool down and check the spark, then ride it for a while and check it again to see if it looses spark or if it gets weaker. That was why I replaced my coil. Once it got good and warmed up my spark would go from nice fat blue to a skinny orange/blue spark.

[El Camexican]

[QUOTE=splangeland;1217219]Whenever it looses power it pops really bad. Normally it doesn't really pop but when it looses power it sounds like a machine gun going off when you let off the gas.QUOTE]

That sounds either electrical, or like you have a leak at exhaust port. I've never heard of an intermmitantly leaking exhaust, so I'm going with electrical at this point. You can take the carb off your list of possible problems. You have something else wrong. When you get that fixed you can come back to the carb and jet it.

Have you looked at (inside) your kill switch? I've heard of misfires being caused by loose or dirty contacts. If it's not that then it may be time to take this trike into a shop for a check-up. I'm guessing the right guy could figure this out in a few minutes if he had his hands on the trike.

This is where I sign out and wish you luck.

[barnett468]

Hello

Yeah as mentioned, cdi, coil, or ign trigger. Popping is now electrical or intermittent stuck valve. intake pop is intake valve ex is ex vakve but this is only a possibility if it pops on acceleration also as I previously mentioned.

[splangeland]

El Camexican: I will have to take it apart and look at it. Thanks for all the help!

Barnett468: No it doesn't pop on acceleration. I have been really busy lately but hopefully I will get some time to look into the electronics

[El Camexican]

El Camexican: I will have to take it apart and look at it. Thanks for all the help!

Barnett468: No it doesn't pop on acceleration. I have been really busy lately but hopefully I will get some time to look into the electronics

Actualy I should thank you. Your post motivated me to finaly finish jetting my YTM200. It ran fine with the stock 225 jets in the larger carb and the needle at full rich, with the screw out 2 turns, but I always intended to play with it. I ended up two sizes larger on the pilot, second notch up from the bottom on the needle and for the moment a size down on the main with the screw at 1-3/4 turns out. It rips off idle! Now I'm tempted to open up the intake manifold as it tapers in towards the head. I had one port matched to the head before, but it was too thin and cracked so I put a stocker on. I may have to make one to get what I want.

[splangeland]

Glad to hear, I kind of miss my YTM200. It sure was fun, a little hard on the back but it sure was zippy. It also was my first trike. I bought it in pretty rough shape and burning oil for $400 and ran that thing as hard as I could for about 3 years before it finally got to the point where it just wasn't worth the money it would cost to get it going again. Oh yeah, j ended up getting a stock muffler on ebay. It seemes to be in about as good as shape as you can get for something made in the 80's and for $25 I couldn't go wrong. Hopefully it turns out to be as good as it looks.

[splangeland]

Quick question if you guys don't mind, sorry. Is the stator just part of the charging system? Or does it have to do with spark? Today I messed with my trike and noticed that I only loose power when it's hot. If I let it cool down for a bit its great until it gets hot again. I checked my kill switch and it seemed fine. I already replaced the coil, so I figure that just leaves stator and CDI. I can't find a way to test them and neither of them are cheap so I would like to buy the most likely culprit first.

[barnett468]

Hello

If the stator power output decreases during riding the bike will continue to run the same up until the point where it will fail to generate enough power to properly fire the plug at which point the bike will eventually fail to run at all, therefore since you already replaced the coil, if your problem is truly electrical then the most likely culpret should be the CDI since I do not think [but I'm not sure] that the ign trigger on the cam does not contain any electronocs that affect ignition advance.

[barnett468]

Hello

You can also check the ign advance by simply putting a timing lit on it when it is running good and re-checking it again when it is running bad. If it has the same amount of advance at both times then your problem is likely not electrical and the carb instead unless your motor is mildly seized but I think you already did a compression test and it would be hard to turn over when hot then anyway.

[barnett468]

Timing must be checked at idle and 1/3-1/2 throttle.

[El Camexican]

You might be well served to check your exhaust valve clearance again. If it is set really tight every symptom you have described would make sense. Loss of power when hot and popping. I think Yamaha recommends .004" to .006" but it is always better to run the exhaust valve a little loose. Try at least .005" and see what happens.

[barnett468]

You might be well served to check your exhaust valve clearance again. If it is set really tight every symptom you have described would make sense. Loss of power when hot and popping. I think Yamaha recommends .004" to .006" but it is always better to run the exhaust valve a little loose. Try at least .005" and see what happens.


That's cheaper than another CDI! Still hard to believe it is electrical but it "seems" like you have eliminated everything else.

[splangeland]

Does the CDI have anything to do with spark or is that solely timing? And if I remember correctly my exhaust valve was set very tight.

[barnett468]

Does the CDI have anything to do with spark or is that solely timing? And if I remember correctly my exhaust valve was set very tight.

Think of your CDI like your heart, if it gets sick your bike runs sick, it dies your bike dies. On your bike it controls ign advance and voltage [I'm pretty sure]

Is your ex valve still tight, I thought you adjusted it a while back? Either way do as El Mexican suggested in case it changed. Recheck it AFTER you tighten the nut.

[splangeland]

Yeah I checked it and I think even the smallest feeler gauge was a pretty tight fit. I also just remembered I was riding at night one time and when I lost power but kept riding it pretty hard, the pipe coming out of the head right where it bends to go out the back of the trike was cherry red. I've had that happen a few times actually.

[El Camexican]

Yeah I checked it and I think even the smallest feeler gauge was a pretty tight fit. I also just remembered I was riding at night one time and when I lost power but kept riding it pretty hard, the pipe coming out of the head right where it bends to go out the back of the trike was cherry red. I've had that happen a few times actually.

Check it NOW and hope you have not burnt the valve. That pipe should not get that hot if you are moving.

[barnett468]

Hello


Yeah I checked it and I think even the smallest feeler gauge was a pretty tight fit.

What do you plan to do about it?

xxxxx

I also just remembered I was riding at night one time and when I lost power but kept riding it pretty hard, the pipe coming out of the head right where it bends to go out the back of the trike was cherry red. I've had that happen a few times actually.

You gotta be @$#!@$# kidding me. Do you really think this is normal?

After over 70 posts and a zillion questions why did you not mention this before?

You obviously have a death wish for this poor bike.

The pipe turned red and the bike slowed down at the same time DIDN’T it?

A red pipe in YOUR case is almost always ign timing if it isn’t partially seized. Get a new CDI box if the valve adjustment doesn’t work.

Back to the same previous 3 recent suggestions.


El Camexican, sorry I forgot the”Ca”.

[splangeland]

I completely forgot about the fact the pipe turned red or I wiuld have mentioned that. Yes the pipe tyrned red when it slowed nown. Trust me I didn't think that was normal. Once I looked down and noticed that pipe was red, it went into tje garage and was turned off. Thats why i dont like riding it when it looses power because it was dark when i had the pipe turn red so I caught it in the bottom of my eye and shut it off. I am worried about not seeing it fast enough the daytime. My last post was kind of a side note. Tonight I am going to set the valve a little looser and see if it helps. El Camexican: Is that what you ment by check my valve?

[El Camexican]

El Camexican: Is that what you ment by check my valve?

Yes. Let us know what it was. Your valves, especialy the exhaust, must seat properly in order to seal and to transfer heat to the head. Now that your problem seems to have gone from randomly "intermitant" to "when it gets hot" I am wondering if your cam timing isn't retarded by a tooth. Two teeth will bend the valves, but one might not but it would run poorly and get very hot.

Re:barnett468 "You gotta be @$#!@$# kidding me." X 2

[splangeland]

Ok so,I managed to make myself look an @$$ here. I have no idea what I did when I checked my valves last time. I could swear up and down they were both within spec's. When I checked them last night they were both set too tight. I could not put the smallest feeler in either of them. I set them both to .001" bigger than the minimum allowed. Anyways, I still get popping when I loose power but it's not a constant popping now. My muffler just came in the mail today. Looks great! I am also bidding on NOS CDI. One thing realized last night was my CDI was hanging right above my exhaust where the muffler and head pipe are broken so there's a gap. Could too much heat have just maybe cooked my CDI? Also, Where is my CDI supposed to mount? I see that the rubber piece around it is called the mount so I should think it should mount somewhere not just swing freely.

[El Camexican]

Please tell me what thickness of feeler gauge now fits in on each side.

As far as the CDI, yea, nothing electronic likes heat, so get it away from the pipe. That rubber collar should have a slot that pushes onto a thin metal tag welded to the frame near where the backbone of the frame ends above the carb on the right hand side. If it doesn’t or something is broke just tie wrap it to the frame away from the pipe.

Best check your compression again and make sure you didn’t burn a valve during this testing.

[barnett468]

Hello Splangeland

My only suggestion for the moment is do the obvious. new pipe, locate CDI in correct position using proper mounting items and try it again. I think you partially answered your own question which I am unable to do at the moment various reasons. Maybe if you are EXTREMELY lucky your CDI may still work properly once removed from the hot ex coming out of your broken head pipe and if you fix it fat and it does cure the problem you will save yourself from having to needlessly buy the other one. Setting your valves to the MINIMUM clearance is NOT what was suggested.

[barnett468]

Hello El Camexican


Sorry to simulate your comment below, I was typing in the window before you posted so I did not see it until after I pushed the "post" button. Unfortunately I was unable to reply directly to his "hot exhaust blowing directly on CDI box" question.

"As far as the CDI, yea, nothing electronic likes heat, so get it away from the pipe."

[splangeland]

I think intake called for .005"-.009" I set that one at either .006" or .007" I cant remember for sure. Exhaust called for .011"-.015" I believe and I set that one at .013". The clearance for those two could be swapped but regardless to which one goes for which valve, thats what I set them at. I moved my cdi last night, just zip tied to my frame above my carb and still had a loss of power. I will check the compression later tonight.

[splangeland]

I just realized the cdi I am bidding on is for a DR, mine is a DX. Does that matter?

[El Camexican]

I just realized the cdi I am bidding on is for a DR, mine is a DX. Does that matter?

Get on a Yamaha parts site and see if the numbers match.

[El Camexican]

I think intake called for .005"-.009" I set that one at either .006" or .007" I cant remember for sure. Exhaust called for .011"-.015" I believe and I set that one at .013". The clearance for those two could be swapped but regardless to which one goes for which valve, thats what I set them at. I moved my cdi last night, just zip tied to my frame above my carb and still had a loss of power. I will check the compression later tonight.

STOP! Those specs are in MM NOT Inches! if you are measuring in inches the specs are .002" to .004" int and .004 to .006 ex. You are way too loose if you set them in inches.

[splangeland]

I can't believe I did that... I re-set them. I set intake so that a .06mm will fit but .08mm will not. Ehaust is set so that .13mm will fit but .15mm will not. I am hearing a quiet clicking when the engine is running that I've never heard before but without exhaust it was so loud I could hardly hear myself think so I don't know if its always been there. My pipe turned slightly red when it lost power but it was hard to even tell it was red, unlike before where it was bright red.

[El Camexican]

I can't believe I did that... I re-set them. I set intake so that a .06mm will fit but .08mm will not. Ehaust is set so that .13mm will fit but .15mm will not. I am hearing a quiet clicking when the engine is running that I've never heard before but without exhaust it was so loud I could hardly hear myself think so I don't know if its always been there. My pipe turned slightly red when it lost power but it was hard to even tell it was red, unlike before where it was bright red.

So the new pipe turned red with the valves properly set? If so don't run it like that. Your cam chain or ignition timing is off. Check both and then if need be buy a CDI. A slight valve tick is normal, especialy on an air cooled engine.

[splangeland]

Yeah pipe turned red once the valves were set. It was very hard to see but it was red. I have checked my timing but I'm having a helluva time with it. It looks spot on then I move my head and it looks off. That keeps going on untill I just put the two covers back on and call it good but best as I can tell its set right.

[splangeland]

What do you mean by my cam chain could be off? Also, on my flywheel there is a "T" and and "F". There is a diagram that says the T stands for TDC and the F is ignition timing mark I think they call it. If I understood it right I line up the T on the flywheel with the notch in the timing window not the F right? I didn't understand why the F would be called a timing mark if you use the T to set timing. I checked it when I took the head off and it was lined up with the T so that's how I set it.

[barnett468]

What do you mean by my cam chain could be off? Also, on my flywheel there is a "T" and and "F". There is a diagram that says the T stands for TDC and the F is ignition timing mark I think they call it. If I understood it right I line up the T on the flywheel with the notch in the timing window not the F right? I didn't understand why the F would be called a timing mark if you use the T to set timing. I checked it when I took the head off and it was lined up with the T so that's how I set it.


Hello


Your post total is now at 88, when it gets to 100 which I'm pretty sure it will you get a free set of steak knives. You are setting a world record here because you continually supply incomplete and incorrect information. It is impossible to help someone this way, you need to answer the questions asked and give ACCURATE information or I suggest you quit asking for help. Answer them one at a time in line order fashion. Do NOT answer them all in one paragraph. If you do not answer them ALL I can not help so you are left with one.

I suggest you simple cut and paste them onto Microsoft word or similar then put your reply next to them then b copy and paste it back into the window.

For the 10th time or so, if your bike ever runs fine even for 30 seconds your cam timing is fine and your initial timing IS FINE. Do you understand what I am telling you?

It’s probably your CDI box like I said several times now providing it is NOT partially seized.

When it runs bad try removing your CDI and putting it in the refrigerator not the freezer, take it out and reinstall after 15 minutes and see if it runs well again.

If you notice there are only 2 people helping you now, soon there will be only one.

Did you install the new pipe? Yes or no.

Did you mount the CDI away from the exhaust? Yes or no.

Does it start easily? Yes or no

Do you need the choke to start it? Yes or no.

Does it idle well? Yes or no.

Does it run well with NO problem when it is COLD? Yes or no

Does it continue running well until you turn it off as you claimed before? Yes or no.

[barnett468]

Is it hard to restart when you turn it off while it is still running well? Yes or no

[El Camexican]

What do you mean by my cam chain could be off? Also, on my flywheel there is a "T" and and "F". There is a diagram that says the T stands for TDC and the F is ignition timing mark I think they call it. If I understood it right I line up the T on the flywheel with the notch in the timing window not the F right? I didn't understand why the F would be called a timing mark if you use the T to set timing. I checked it when I took the head off and it was lined up with the T so that's how I set it.

Correct. If you have it there on the "T" and your top mark lines up while you are keeping the chain taunt in a counter clockwise direction it is good, nothing to change.

I can only think of one last think to check aside from what was suggested about cooling the CDI. Take a flashlight and shine it on your intake manifold. Grab your float bowl and gently move it left to right and then up and down. While you are doing this look for a crack in the manifold. If it's not that I have a couple more questions about the transition between it running good and not, but I'll save them till I see the rest of your posts.

[splangeland]

Barnett468:

Did you install the new pipe?
-Yes

Did you mount the CDI away from the exhaust?
-Yes, moved it to carburetor side

Does it start easily?
-Yes

Do you need the choke to start it? No, You needed it before I played with the carb but it started first pull with no choke after sitting two days.

Does it idle well? Yes

Does it run well with NO problem when it is COLD?
-Yes, for a couple minutes until it gets good and warm

Does it continue running well until you turn it off as you claimed before?
-No, last time I rode it was completely intermittent once it was warmed up.

Is it hard to restart when you turn it off while its still running well?
-No

It’s probably your CDI box like I said several times now providing it is NOT partially seized.
- CDI will be here tomorrow

El Camexican:
I did as you said and did not see any cracks in it.


Something I noticed today, When I rev it up (not red lining it here just a quick jab to about 1/2 throttle max) and it idles down I hear one clunk. This occurs about the time it reaches normal idle. I tried to get a video of it so you can hear but I am having trouble getting it to my computer.

[El Camexican]

A clunk? I think I will wait for the video to comment on that. Let us know how that CDI works.

[barnett468]

Barnett468:

Did you install the new pipe?
-Yes

Did you mount the CDI away from the exhaust?
-Yes, moved it to carburetor side

Does it start easily?
-Yes

Do you need the choke to start it? No, You needed it before I played with the carb but it started first pull with no choke after sitting two days.

Does it idle well? Yes

Does it run well with NO problem when it is COLD?
-Yes, for a couple minutes until it gets good and warm

Does it continue running well until you turn it off as you claimed before?
-No, last time I rode it was completely intermittent once it was warmed up.

Is it hard to restart when you turn it off while its still running well?
-No

It’s probably your CDI box like I said several times now providing it is NOT partially seized.
- CDI will be here tomorrow

El Camexican:
I did as you said and did not see any cracks in it.


Something I noticed today, When I rev it up (not red lining it here just a quick jab to about 1/2 throttle max) and it idles down I hear one clunk. This occurs about the time it reaches normal idle. I tried to get a video of it so you can hear but I am having trouble getting it to my computer.


Hello


Finally an xlnt, accurate, detailed reply, good job.


I was trying to get you to do the CDI "cooling" test BEFORE you spent money on another one to determine whether it is the case of your problem.

Is the CDI you bought a BRAND NEW ORIGINAL one?

If not what is it exactly?

If it is used and you still have the same problem than reinstall the existing one you already have and see if it runs good until the CDI gets hot. If it does run good with a hot motor and your original "cool" CDI then you bought another bad CDI. Do the CDI cooling test on your original CDI to confirm diagnosis.

Do you understand what I am saying?

[barnett468]

"Something I noticed today, When I rev it up (not red lining it here just a quick jab to about 1/2 throttle max) and it idles down I hear one clunk. This occurs about the time it reaches normal idle. I tried to get a video of it so you can hear but I am having trouble getting it to my computer."


Make a NEW topic post that says "how do I download video to computer and/or youtube".

In you post say

"I have a video on my phone/camera etc and I want to know how to download it DIRECTlY to youtube.com if possible so I can paste the youtube link onto my post."

Some computer brainiac [not me] will tell you exactly how to do it. Avoid downloading it to your computer first if you can, it is one more complication you do not need right now.

Your phone/camera should have instructions how to down load.

What EXACTLY is the problem you are having?

Have you tried to download it directly to youtube.com yet?

If not why not?

[splangeland]

Here it is. I want to wait to ride it until we make sure this is not a problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3f7H8Zvgf8&feature=youtu.be


Is the CDI you bought a BRAND NEW ORIGINAL one?
- No, it is an original but it is used, off another trike. I bought it on ebay, guaranteed to be in working order. If not I can send it back.

Do you understand what I am saying?
- Yes I do

Just got on eday to check the status of my order. Est. delivery is today via FedEx and a tracking number was provided. Tracking number is in fact USPS not FedEx like was claimed. Once I discovered that I checked the number through USPS, it has not even shipped yet...

[barnett468]

Hello Slangeland


Here it is. I want to wait to ride it until we make sure this is not a problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3f7H...ature=youtu.be


Good video, is that the “new” pipe you installed. Your noise sounds like a pop from a backfire or leaking valve. T could be caused by other things like an exhaust leak at the pipe at the cylinder head.

You can ride it briefly for testing purposes. It should not get worse very quickly and shouldn’t affect the test but it should be fixed before extended periods of riding.

You can pressurize the crank cases by using a radiator pressure tester adapted to screw into plug hole or use a compression gauge hose with a gauge and air it up from a compressor. With the motor cold you can also simply remove the carb and pipe and put the piston on tdc with play in the rockers at the valves then spray some brake cleaner in each port and if it disappears within 1 minute you have a leaking valve. You can also use a “mighty vac” vacuum pump purchased from pep boys, kragen or checker auto parts etc. Pressurize or vacuum it 20 psi, It should not leak at all but 1 lb a minute isn’t bad. Spray soapy water on it to find leaks at base gskt and head gskt etc.

xxxxx

Is the CDI you bought a BRAND NEW ORIGINAL one?

No, it is an original but it is used, off another trike. I bought it on ebay, guaranteed to be in working order. If not I can send it back.


That’s good but if it has the same problem there is no way to tell if the new CDI is bad or if it is something else, see the problem with used electrical parts?

Since you have time I don’t understand why you refuse to do the CDI “cooling” test which in your case will tell you if your CDI is bad or not.

xxxxx

Just got on eday to check the status of my order. Est. delivery is today via FedEx and a tracking number was provided. Tracking number is in fact USPS not FedEx like was claimed. Once I discovered that I checked the number through USPS, it has not even shipped yet...

Well since you now have time to do the cooling test….

[splangeland]

Good video, is that the “new” pipe you installed. Your noise sounds like a pop from a backfire or leaking valve. T could be caused by other things like an exhaust leak at the pipe at the cylinder head.
- Yup that's my new one. When I first put it on I had smoke coming out right where the pipe meets the head just for a little while. I thought it was from oil I had maybe dripped onto it when I pulled off the valve cover but, I re-tightened the two bolts and it went away. It wasn't blasting out like I imagine it would, it was just more wafting out like when you first blow out a candle. Is there supposed to be some type of gasket in there? If so, there was not one when I pulled it off. I also noticed now there is a small amount of oil seeping from my valve covers and my timing cover. I'm guessing it's time to replace the o-rings in them, could that cause the noise? Just a thought



That’s good but if it has the same problem there is no way to tell if the new CDI is bad or if it is something else, see the problem with used electrical parts?
- Yeah I thought about that but there was just no way I could spend $350 on a brand new one so I had to settle for this.

Since you have time I don’t understand why you refuse to do the CDI “cooling” test which in your case will tell you if your CDI is bad or not.
- I plan to do that today, I have just been really busy and had no time to try it. I understood though why you want me to do, otherwise how will I know if the CDI is good or bad if this continues once I put it on there. I also wanted to make sure that noise wasn't something that would cause an engine fatality. I will post again later tonight with my results.

[barnett468]

Hello Splangeland


Yup that's my new one. When I first put it on I had smoke coming out right where the pipe meets the head just for a little while. I thought it was from oil I had maybe dripped onto it when I pulled off the valve cover but, I re-tightened the two bolts and it went away. It wasn't blasting out like I imagine it would, it was just more wafting out like when you first blow out a candle. Is there supposed to be some type of gasket in there?

Yes it’s a copper crush gasket. Sometimes you can get lucky and get one that fits from an industrial hardware supply store.

The leak could be enough to cause the popping noise, don't worry about it right now, one nightmare at a time.

xxxxx

I also noticed now there is a small amount of oil seeping from my valve covers and my timing cover. I'm guessing it's time to replace the o-rings in them, could that cause the noise? Just a thought

A very good thought, they are cooked It’s easy to see they were leaking. I can still see burning oil smoke wafting from your head pipe area.

xxxxx

there was just no way I could spend $350 on a brand new one so I had to settle for this.

$350.00 you’re @$#@#$! kidding me. They have $20.00 worth of parts in the Tecate ones.

xxxxx

I plan to do that today, I have just been really busy and had no time to try it. I understood though why you want me to do, otherwise how will I know if the CDI is good or bad if this continues once I put it on there. I also wanted to make sure that noise wasn't something that would cause an engine fatality. I will post again later tonight with my results.

OK Cool, hope it works.

[splangeland]

Alright, I stuck my CDI in the fridge for about 10 minutes. When I plugged it back I had no spark. There is only two plugs that connect it to the wiring harness and they are connected to different length wires so you can really only connect them one way so I'm not sure what happened. I am going to try and switch them tomorrow to see if I somehow switched them around. I ran out of time time today and couldn't see if they can be switched around.

[barnett468]

Hello Splangeland


Congratulations, this is post #100 you win the free steak knives!

xxxxx

Alright, I stuck my CDI in the fridge for about 10 minutes.


I asked you to do it for 15, it takes that long for the coldness to sink thru the sealer.

Xxxxx

When I plugged it back I had no spark.


The fridge didn’t kill your CDI it’s not possible.

Xxxxx

There is only two plugs that connect it to the wiring harness and they are connected to different length wires so you can really only connect them one way so I'm not sure what happened.


Do not switch it. Check the wire colors to make sure they are going to the right place first, if not then switch plugs but hooking it up wrong might damage it. You may just have a bad connection.

xxxxx

I am going to try and switch them tomorrow to see if I somehow switched them around. I ran out of time time today and couldn't see if they can be switched around.


See answer above.

[splangeland]

Alright so, My CDI got here and I got well... Impatient. I simply didn't feel like taking the time to cool my old CDI. I figured if I put the new one on and it still didn't run right, I would put the old one back on and ride it then cool it. The CDI was definitely the problem! It just runs all around better. When it gets started you don't have to ride around for 20 minutes in order to get it to run normal. Once it's warmed up it has lots of power and keeps it. It seems to be all around faster. I don't know if that's possible but it sure feels that way.
Thanks for all the help guys!

[ColtonGG33]

Thank goodness is fixed!! I've been following this thread the whole time an it's great you got it running good, post up some pics of this bad boy!