starter not disengaging

[gladiator mice]

lately everytime i finish riding and shut the sx off, the starter runs(whines) for about 2-3 seconds once the motor is killed and key off. stops with a clunk/heavy click. last night after my brother and i installed a cobra pipe i was cranking the motor until it started with the choke. warmed up some and it stalled so i cranked it again and fired up. BUT my brother said to kill the motor because he could hear the starter whining. i couldnt hear it because of the pipe. when i shut it off by the key the starter continued to whine/spin. the only way to stop it was to pull the positive off the battery. i was able to kick start the trike and run it. does anyone know why after i ride it and shut down the motor the starter spins for a few seconds before it stops? and why i had trouble with it spinning like crazy and not stopping until i pulled the positive off the terminal?

[Flyingw]

Control for the starter is by the starter solenoid. Either the start button is sticking or the solenoid is hanging up some how.

[gladiator mice]

what do you mean by the solenoid is hanging up? the starter button and switches unit was replaced with a used one. starter button is releasing and is easy to push.

[djm0242]

The spring in the controls could be weak or there could be a damaged contact in the controls that is causing the problem. The solenoid could be staying "open" I'd think its control related. I'd start there and take them off the handlebars to be sure they are not packed with mud or something that is causing a problem. If that's not it somehow it must be the solenoid. I'd check all connections on the solenoid too be sure they are clean and tight.

[Flyingw]

It wouldnt be unreasonable for the mechanical contacts in the solenoid to be bad causing an arc or something along those lines. The starter circuit is a simple circuit and either the starter switch is not fully disengaging like DJM mentioned or the solenoid is not completely disengaging. One thing you can do it to remove the left bar control and submerge it in a container with rubbing alcohol in it. Let it soak for about 30 min. Remove it and blow it dry concentrating on the start button. A buildup of debris in the switch can cause an intermittant connection when the switch is relaxed. The solenoid is semi-sealed but you can check it by pulling the plug wire off the plug. Turn the ignition on and hit the start button. Pay attention to the starter and how it engages and disengages when you hit the start button and let it off. Does the starter react with the start button?

[djm0242]

Another thought on this- the starter is one of the grounds for this system. If the ground on the battery is loose could the whole system be shorted? Could a bad battery cause this? Could the starter not really be powered but the spring that throws the shaft out be "stuck" causing the reduction gears to stay engaged with the starter shaft? Then it would "sound" like the starter is running. I'm just brainstorming here :)

[Howdy]

You have 2 issues you need to deal with here.

If you try to use the electric start for too long ( consistant cranking ) the selenoid can / will get hot and the contacts in it can / will weld together. I have seen this many times.

Problem #2: Your whirling noise when shutting it off. That is very typical and common of the 250sx's and 250es's. You problem here is the one-way clutch going bad. This problem has been discussed on here many many times. It can also cause your starter & gears to get damaged. It is a must fix if you want the motor to last very long.

Here is some reading material:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/67595-1985-honda-sx-250-making-noise-sounds-like-some-thing-spinning?highlight=whirling

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/10576-Honda-250SX-Starter-Trouble?highlight=whirling
(http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/10576-Honda-250SX-Starter-Trouble?highlight=whirling)
Here is a reply I done 9 years ago ( Prices have changed from when it originally was posted ):
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/10576-Honda-250SX-Starter-Trouble?p=61376#post61376

Howdy

[gladiator mice]

thanks howdy. the starter screaming constantly doesnt happen any more. im looking into replacing the one way clutch. i got a sx manual for my year so it shouldnt be to hard to fix this issue.

[Flyingw]

The one way bearing is attached to the back of the flywheel so you will need a flywheel removal tool and the screws that attach it to the flywheel are torks screws and are easy to get off with a hand held impact and a ball peen hammer. Be sure to install it correctly. They can be installed upside down.

[Howdy]

The one way bearing is attached to the back of the flywheel so you will need a flywheel removal tool and the screws that attach it to the flywheel are torks screws and are easy to get off with a hand held impact and a ball peen hammer. Be sure to install it correctly. They can be installed upside down.

The one-way bearing that goes bad is the one behind the clutch. I have never had the one behind the flywheel go bad due to use. Other people might have had the flywheel one go bad, but in 24+ years I never have had one go bad due to use. I did see one go bad due to rust, but the whole motor was fubar'd due to rust so...


On a 250sx / 250es: A easy way to tell if it's the one-way bearing behind the clutch is if the kick starter slips when you try to start it then it is the one-way bearing behind the clutch. The more the wear on it, the more it will slip.
Howdy

[Flyingw]

BUT!!! I thought we were discussing the electric starter? The one way bearing behind the clutch is only for coupling the kick starter to the crank and the one behind the flywheel is only for coupling the electric starter to the crank. Both have different functions and both work independant of each other. I have replaced two one way bearings behind the flywheel and one behind the clutch. They were all messed up.

[Howdy]

BUT!!! I thought we were discussing the electric starter? The one way bearing behind the clutch is only for coupling the kick starter to the crank and the one behind the flywheel is only for coupling the electric starter to the crank. Both have different functions and both work independant of each other. I have replaced two one way bearings behind the flywheel and one behind the clutch. They were all messed up.

Yep we were discussing the electric start, but the OP in the first post also mentioned about the spinning noise when the machine was turned off. That spinning nose is caused by the clutch side one-way bearing / clutch.

I don't doubt the flywheel side goes bad. But I personally have only ever seen one go bad from use.
Howdy

[Flyingw]

I'm with ya now. One of mine does that and I swear the noise comes from the flywheel side. I guess I need to lay off the bath salts.

[Howdy]

I'm with ya now. One of mine does that and I swear the noise comes from the flywheel side. I guess I need to lay off the bath salts.

It's not uncommon to think the sound is coming from the flywheel side. Next time you shut it off put your foot / toes on the clutch cover while you kill it. You will feel it clunk to a stop.
Howdy

[Flyingw]

I'll try that and report back.

[kb0nly]

Another thought on this- the starter is one of the grounds for this system. If the ground on the battery is loose could the whole system be shorted? Could a bad battery cause this? Could the starter not really be powered but the spring that throws the shaft out be "stuck" causing the reduction gears to stay engaged with the starter shaft? Then it would "sound" like the starter is running. I'm just brainstorming here :)

These starters don't kick out like an auto type starter, they run through a set of gears and the one way starter clutch behind the flywheel. The starter is always engaged with the gears.

[djm0242]

Come to think of it I know you are right. Because I put a set of brushes in my starter. Well I guess I'm unclear as to why or how the starter would ever stop spinning?

[gladiator mice]

i have never taken apart the bottom end of a trike (never really needed to). i looked up to see what this part looks like and the diagrams are not clear enough for me. can anyone tell me or show me what exactly i need to replace (the one way clutch, is it the outer or inner?) i can get ahold of a flywheel, magneto, and one way clutch cheap/used. any help would be great.

[RubberSalt]

I agree with Howdy, this is an issue with the starter solenoid.

Power goes from batter to solenoid to starter. The solenoid is an electronic switch. Lower power moves a chunk of metal and shorts out 2 large contacts. It allows current directly from the battery to the starter. If the solenoid is dirty internal, it can stick. Sometimes they weld themselves together from being held open to long and dirty.

My 77 gold wings had a similar issue; it wouldn’t release the starter immediately. I pulled the solenoid apart, cleaned up all the contacts, works great now.

[kb0nly]

Come to think of it I know you are right. Because I put a set of brushes in my starter. Well I guess I'm unclear as to why or how the starter would ever stop spinning?

The starter turns a set of gears that turns the gear behind the flywheel, that gear is engaged to the flywheel by centrifugal force. When the starter spins the gear there is a set of rollers, think like recoil starter dogs, that wedge out and catch the inside of the back of the flywheel and pulls the motor over, when the motor fires and starts to spin that pushes those rollers back so they are not engaged and the flywheel can now spin independently of the starter gear.

If you hit the start button while the engine is running it won't do anything because the flywheel is already spinning faster than the starter gear and so the rollers won't engage to the flywheel. Its a really simple yet ingenious setup. I know the first time i took one apart years ago i was like how the heck does this work? LOL

If the starter is always spinning, even when the engine is NOT running then its an electrical issue, starter button or starter solenoid. If its spinning all the time the engine is running but still works to spin over the engine to start it, and it stops with the engine being shut off, then its mechanical and is either the starter clutch behind the flywheel or the one-way clutch on the other side.