86' 200x needs rings??

[anderson8687]

hey ya'll, my 1986 200x was rebuild by a honda shop in 2006, new high comp. wiesco piston, bored .040" over (66mm). it hasnt been ridden a whole hell of alot since then, maybe 15-20hours since rebuild, but the last few times i rode it i noticed it would start hard once it was hot (like low compression) and then the last time i was riding it i noticed the oil was low and it was smoking once it got hot. since then i re-filled the oil, and it smokes the entire time its running. Does this sound like it needs a new set of rings and gaskets, or is this a valve/head problem? any imput would be great, i just want to check all my options before i tear into it. Thanks and Merry Christmas!!!

[Lil Earl]

so is this before or after the rebuild?

[stroberts22]

I wouldn't think it was the rings with that little run time and the first time you run it it didn't use oil or smoke so your rings did get seated. If you didn't do a valve job on the head while you had it down I would think the head was what was wrong.

[anderson8687]

well thats what i was thinking, it couldnt be the rings right? like i said i havent ridden it a whole lot since rebuild, even though its been several years. The head/valves were NOT touched during the rebuild, just piston, rings, cylinder bored, gaskets....think that was it. it ovbiously burned up some oil (hence the smoke) cause it was just below the stick when i noticed something was wrong. i dont have my compression release hooked up, could there be an issue with that being stuck?? not sure how that mecinism operates.....

[shortline10]

Not sure why but I have see allot of wiseco rings go bad prematurely , its like they just loose their spring tension . Rig gaps all seem ok but not seating to the cylinder anymore . I would pull it apart and check it out before it does any harm to the cylinder .
I have strayed away from using wiseco pistons in my shop because its not good business having a motor last one season and trying to explain to customers that wiseco rings just suck .

[anderson8687]

hmm interesting. any threads on here about valve jobs? while ive got the head off i might as well do those.

[honda200x1987]

It sounds like the rings did not seat well or your Honda mechanic done a poor job boring the cylinder. Low compression with smoke means your rings are bad or they did not seat well. I never had luck with bore jobs myself and they never seemed to last long but that's just me. If you had good compression and it still smoked then that would mean your valve seals are bad but in your case it is the rings/cylinder. There are 2 routes you can go, first you can just buy new rings and gaskets and valve seals which would do the basic overhaul but you could still have a bad bore and it would do no good. Shortline has mentioned wiseco rings go bad prematurley and I have witnessed this myself so it could very well be the case. It might be a good idea to have your cylinder inspected by a certified Honda Mechanic before you do the new basic overhaul.

[stroberts22]

I havn't heard that about wiseco. What pistons do you use? I've got a 12:1 wiseco in mine and have ran it pretty hard with no problems yet. You got me worried now.

[anderson8687]

ill look back to see if ive got any paperwork on the piston. i bought the 66mm weisco, think it was 11.5:1?? maybe it was the 12

[kb0nly]

I remember a few years back a friend of mine rebuilt his using Wiseco piston and rings and the rings were crap after a week, took it back apart and honed it again and put in a stock piston and new rings from Dr ATV and it was good to go, that was three years ago at least and it still hasnt had an issue since.

[anderson8687]

is there a different set of rings i can buy for that piston? or do i have to use wiesco rings...

[atc007]

Only Wiseco will fit. To answer/troubleshoot your original ?. All you do is remove the breather hose from the case. If there is smoke there,it's cylinder seal. If it's a head problem,which yours is not. The smoke will be contained within the combustion chamber and will not make it past the rings to the case. Since I've been able to remember,alot around here,mainly dealers who wanted to sell oem. Have been badmouthing Wiseco. I personally have had nothing but great luck. But also take Mike 100% at his word,and do not doubt a bit there could be problems. At any rate,,unless YOU ran that thing low on oil and cooked it,,and I am NOT saying you did. That dealer owes you a resolution. After this long you'll have to eat something,,but they should be willing to do what is right. All the labor at least.

[anderson8687]

i dont think i cooked it....changed the oil once a year since rebuild, and didnt notice it getting hot at all. it also didnt take much, maybe half a quart to get it to full level on dipstick. i highly doubt the dealer will work with me at all....even though i spent almost $600 on this engine build, it was 6 years ago..

guess ill do some compression test here soon, get some readings while its cold and then once its warmed up. that should tell me something

[jmax857]

Did you have it bored or was it bored previously and he put a .040 piston in it. Its possible your cylinder is oval if it wzsnt a fresh bore job.

[Dirtcrasher]

Tear it down and let them measure it, IN FRONT of you. They could have easily given it too much clearance (don't forget that cast or forged pistons determine that amount) and ask "what gives??" Could be a bad hone job too; Again, did a professional bore and hone this??

Your DC is not the issue, many guys don't run them until they snap the kicker off.

We have 25 year old OEM pistons still on the 1st bore running well out there.

I've seen mixed up rings, too much end gap rings and upside down rings.

I've also seen oil rings stuck or staggered wrong.

That 86 motor does not like 12:1, 10.5 with a pipe will be just fine.......

[anderson8687]

Im a machinist, i had a fellow machinist bore my cylinder to .040 over because it was already .020 and we deemed it out of clearance. I then honed it to the specs that my friend came up with (i was in school at the time....6 yrs ago) had one small shop assemble the engine, and they had issues with timing chain, engine broke chain first kick once i put it in. Then i took it to the Honda dealer and told them to "completly go through it" and i provided then with a spare engine to use for parts if they needed them. they claimed the cylinder was oversize for the piston, so they had my spare cylinder bored. i took their word for all of this. engine ran great untill the smoking issues of lately.