Ethanol the enemy

[Angore]

Found this video on another forum & thought it might interest some of you who are concerned about phase-separation occurring in today's oxygenated fuels .
I've used Seafoam for years , but after seeing the side-by-side comparison ( in glass containers ) I'll be switching teams .
Have a look : http://www.veoh.com/watch/v27896358P59eQY2h

[blue27]

wow, interesting

[DasUberKraut]

Thank you Angore! This was educational. :beer

I will no longer use Sea Foam in my fuel.

[captainweezy]

Very good video, Thanks for posting.

[Angore]

Your welcome ! I didn't say not to use Seafoam , I believe it's still a great "system-cleaner" it just doesn't prevent phase separation like the other one .
I'm going to be using a little of each :beer

[DasUberKraut]

I always use Sea Foam in the brake booster of my vehicles once a year. And also in the crank case before oil changes. I've actually been using Lucas Oil fuel system cleaner.

[ceaserthethird]

Very important for the 2 stroke fans, Thank you for sharing.

[sp8twn]

Thank you for sharing.

[RubberSalt]

I'm Pro e85 ethanol, all the way. Currently.

I'm writing this as i watch this video.

Ethanol makes more power than gasoline, around 18%. This is true for engine built for e85, not for premium and ethyl. At its peak power, it does release 4.4% more heat. But that can be toned down to equal that of gasoline. e85 does not hurt anything on vehicles these days.

------------ AFTER WATCHING ----------

Neat!! I have a new chemical at my disposal I like lol

I <3 my high performance e85, 105 octane ethanol:-D
Never had an issue with water separation with it. But I also don't let it sit for ever. I buy it and use it lol.

[midsouthtrikes]

Thanks for sharing for sure!

[kb0nly]

I have been using Stabil for about 20 years now... Never have i had a problem with stale or separated fuel using it. I just started my walk behind snowblower yesterday, been sitting since last year with Stabil treated fuel, fired right up... Ran for fifteen minutes, checked over everything and then added some fresh fuel to the tank to top it off... Good to go.

[aldochina]

cool video! I will give it a try, i have used alot of others, but never heard of that! I usually open the drain screw on the float bowl for 8- 10 seconds! works every time!! great for the cans, saws, generator etc.

[falloutboy]

I'm glad I can get non-eth fuel.

[kb0nly]

I'm glad I can get non-eth fuel.

Non ethanol fuel isn't that big of a deal.. Just like anything you have to know how to deal with it. There is a lot of good products out there to take care of it, and no reason to be totally concerned over it. If your really really paranoid you can put a water trap on your fuel line or get a fuel dryer setup to dry down the fuel before putting it in the tank. Pretty interesting setup i have seen some of the pro lawn care guys using, especially the tree service guys around here. It's a 5 gal gas jug with an element in it that absorbs the water in the fuel, not sure if its like a dessicant type product or what it is, haven't researched them.

I just toss in some Stabil every time i fill up my jugs which i fill all the machines off here, trikes, saws, generator, mower, snowblower, etc etc.. They make three different types now, the standard red for treatment and storage, green for marine use, and yellow/gold which is just for water bonding in ethanol blended fuels. I have poured the ethanol treatment in just about everything as a precaution when its really humid in the summer, helps with condensation buildup in the tank.

[kb0nly]

I just watched that video again.....

I would like to argue one point that he made.

"It sucks from the bottom of the tank first"

Ok thats somewhat true... But none of them take from the dead bottom of the tank, they have a filter or fuel inlet, or both, that goes up into the tank from the petcock. Sure if you run on the reserve setting on say your Honda ATC you can pull from the bottom, but even then you won't pull from the dead bottom but slightly above it, thats why the bottom of the tanks get rusted out from the water sitting in the bottom of them. I drain the tank down every spring and every fall, the remove the petcock, drain whats left in it out, use a rag and a air nozzle to fit the nozzle to the filler cap and blow air through the tank to force any water or gunk out and then flush with a bit of fresh fuel and re-assemble and refill. Why? Just cause thats how i was taught to take care of equipment with metal tanks.

He wouldn't say the names of the products.... But the first one he poured in, the right end of the row, isn't Stabil and i am not sure what it is with certainty but i know Stabil products very well and that ain't it. The second is the one hes touting... And the third one, the left end, is Seafoam for sure, unmistakeable because of the container top and lid, who hasn't used Seafoam that wouldn't recognize it...

I haven't ever heard of anyone using Seafoam to treat fuel specifically, it shines for what it was made for, a fuel system CLEANER, yeah sure it treats the fuel, but only to the extent that its mixed in so its carried through the fuel system to clean it. The company doesn't claim its a water killing product. So the guy in the video isn't really comparing apples to apples but its just another nit pick of mine.

Its a neat looking product, i would definitely give it a shot if it was sold locally, but i haven't seen any source of this product around here so i will continue using Stabil. Last i checked there wasn't any visible water or separation in my 2-cycle jugs or my saws.

[whipit]

ethanol is garbage. It ruins rubber parts. It turns to sludge in a hurry. it rusts steel gas tanks (quickly) it just sucks. It is a political issue, so thank the politicians, who have never and will never turn a wrench on a machine in their lives and could give a crap what it does to machines. Ethanol is a pathetic attempt to solve out dependancy on foreign oil and a complete failure

[just ben]

The first inline Is called startron and is sold to prevent the separation of ethanol enriched fuels. At 9 bucks for half a pint. That video was pretty convincing to me,It wasn't put together well enough to be chopped and edited. As far as I'm concerned it showed real results but I have been wrong before.

[kb0nly]

Its not the ethanol that ruins the rubber parts... Its the crappy formulation of the rubber itself now days, they don't make anything to last, and the older rubber parts were never formulated with Ethanol in mind... Having said that, if you buy good quality fuel line thats made for Ethanol use it will outlast many others.

I heard this argument years ago when Ethanol blended fuel took over. A local gas station took a piece of rubber fuel line and put it in a glass jar of fuel and left it there submerged for years, the fuel went stale of course and they moved it back to the office. Its still there today, and the rubber hose is still fine, despite being in a jar of stale fuel with ethanol in it.

It doesn't turn to sludge in a hurry, no sure where you get that. Any fuel left sitting will go stale and cause varnish problems, straight or blended it will happen with both.

The fuel doesn't rust the steel tanks, neither does the ethanol, its the water in the ethanol that causes the rust. However, i have had just as many steel tanks that were rusted out that NEVER had ethanol fuel in them. It can be straight gas that had some water in it from the underground tank at the station, water got in from rain, etc etc.. And because of the nature of water being heavier it sinks to the bottom, doesn't have to be ethanol fuel to cause this.

I haven't had any ethanol based problems, ever... We haven't had straight fuel here in, well, forever! I don't remember the last time i saw a pump with non-ethanol fuel, i would say 10-12 years at minimum. I know it was before my oldest son was born because i bought my first "modern" fuel injected vehicle after he was born and that was 12 years ago, and at that time the vehicles being sold on the lot had it in bold on the window stickers that they were compatible with ethanol fuels... LOL

Ethanol is a good fuel source, sadly there is so much misinformation and people don't know how to maintain equipment using it that any small fuel problem and they start pointing fingers at the ethanol. Your only getting a small percentage of ethanol per gallon. I have run E85 which is 85% ethanol and only 15% actual petroleum based gas in my lawnmower and small equipment to prove a point, burns it just fine, actually keeps the engine cleaner. Nothing like running a tank of E85 through to remove varnish and carbon buildup.

I don't work for the industry, i have nothing to do with the fuel production... Just stating my experience with ethanol over 20+ years of using blended fuel. Here in the Midwest we are getting blender pumps now, so you can get different percentages of it, E10, E20, E30, E50, E80, and of course your standard E85, are available at some stations here. They all work great. I have ran higher percentages of ethanol in my vehicle without any problems as well.

[WisconsinJohn]

I have an " E85 flex fuel" 2002 Chevy Tahoe. I got it used about 3 years ago and decided to use E85 in it. The first time was ok, the 2nd time was a problem. It would bog and I had absolutely no power, couldn't even get to 55 going up a hill. I almost took it into a shop and, decided to try 93 no ethanol fuel and a bottle of octane boost. Less than 1/4 tank later problem was gone...never used it again and never had a problem since. Now I don't know if it was "cleaning" my fuel system, but that fuel alone wasn't enough to finish the job. I can get no ethanol fuel 15 minutes from home so it goes in all my small engines.

[RubberSalt]

I'd honestly say, ethanol is a better fuel that gas in every aspect. We as society refuse to get rid of gasoline. It's all oil (political) based. When our major source of ethanol is corn, we are doing something wrong.. We can achieve double the yields from other crops.

All it is alcohol. 85% alcohol 15% gasoline.

If it wasn't so time consuming putting together why ethanol kicks ass. e85 is the 3 wheeler to gasoline. It's bad, it dangerous, It will ruin your engine, ruins your lines... That was a problem back in the 50s and 60s before oxygenated fuels. Cars have been perfectly fine with it. And if they have not, PROVE to me (and everyone else) where ethanol has failed them.

E85 kicks ass hard core. Truthfully, an engine designed to take strictly e85 can make more mpg than premium gasoline.

[just ben]

After watching The video I was curious as to the effectiveness of this product. I didnt make a video but I did take a picture of my result, 159343I think the results are pretty obvious

[tri again]

Interesting for sure with equipment we keep running especially for emergencies.
2 am chainsaw runs to cut trees out of roads etc.

But I fell asleep and have to go to work.

What's the bottom line?
fuel dryer? aka heet?
non eth fuels?

keep tanks AND gas cans full to avoid condensation?

thanks

[kb0nly]

After watching The video I was curious as to the effectiveness of this product. I didnt make a video but I did take a picture of my result, 159343I think the results are pretty obvious

This picture you took, it was of the exact product in the video? Cause your results don't look very encouraging.

[kb0nly]

Interesting for sure with equipment we keep running especially for emergencies.
2 am chainsaw runs to cut trees out of roads etc.

But I fell asleep and have to go to work.

What's the bottom line?
fuel dryer? aka heet?
non eth fuels?

keep tanks AND gas cans full to avoid condensation?

thanks
Bottom line... Circulate your fuel supply, treat it if you feel its necessary, i prefer Stabil as thats what i have been using for 20+ years as a just in case treatment and i can vouch for its effectiveness.

I have a generator, chainsaws, snowblower, trimmer, lawn tractor, trike, you name it. What i like to do is circulate the fuel around, 2-cycle engines get fresh fuel pretty continuously because i only mix it up as needed from a five gallon jug. I know the argument is well in an emergency.... In an emergency i can take the three minutes it takes to dump 2 cycle oil into one of my one gallon jugs and then dump in fuel from the five gallon jug and away we go. I dump some Stabil in it as well if i know i won't burn through that full gallon to do the job needed. So in effect the chainsaws get treated fuel all the time. For the generator i treat it and two times a year i drain the tank to another five gallon jug, usually fall and spring, i then dump in fresh fuel and treat it again and the drained fuel goes in the lawn tractor, trike, or even my vehicles to burn it off since they have a higher turn over rate then the backup generator. I have drained the generator and dumped it in my vehicle if the tank was low enough, five gallons of older treated fuel getting dilluted in an 18 gallon tank doesn't hurt anything.

To fend off condensation keep the tanks, jugs, cans, full... Air space means condensation space! I have one jug thats called a fuel saver, it has a small pump on the top that after you fill it to the line you give it a half dozen pumps and it creates a vacuum and sucks the air out. I don't know yet how effective this is, but i thought it was a neat novelty and mainly bought it because it has a really nice pump type squeeze handle, looks like your gas station nozzle but you pump the lever to transfer fuel, works great for all the small equipment i deal with.

I usually go through a five gallon jug every two weeks for various equipment i run on a regular basis. When your turning over your fuel fast enough you never get problems. If you plan on storing something for years run some treated fuel through it, drain it out, oil the cylinder through the plug hole, etc.. I don't suggest treating and leaving for five years, but a half to one year its not a problem if treated.

[tri again]

Bottom line... Circulate your fuel supply, treat it if you feel its necessary, i prefer Stabil as thats what i have been using for 20+ years as a just in case treatment and i can vouch for its effectiveness.

I have a generator, chainsaws, snowblower, trimmer, lawn tractor, trike, you name it. What i like to do is circulate the fuel around, 2-cycle engines get fresh fuel pretty continuously because i only mix it up as needed from a five gallon jug. I know the argument is well in an emergency.... In an emergency i can take the three minutes it takes to dump 2 cycle oil into one of my one gallon jugs and then dump in fuel from the five gallon jug and away we go. I dump some Stabil in it as well if i know i won't burn through that full gallon to do the job needed. So in effect the chainsaws get treated fuel all the time. For the generator i treat it and two times a year i drain the tank to another five gallon jug, usually fall and spring, i then dump in fresh fuel and treat it again and the drained fuel goes in the lawn tractor, trike, or even my vehicles to burn it off since they have a higher turn over rate then the backup generator. I have drained the generator and dumped it in my vehicle if the tank was low enough, five gallons of older treated fuel getting dilluted in an 18 gallon tank doesn't hurt anything.

To fend off condensation keep the tanks, jugs, cans, full... Air space means condensation space! I have one jug thats called a fuel saver, it has a small pump on the top that after you fill it to the line you give it a half dozen pumps and it creates a vacuum and sucks the air out. I don't know yet how effective this is, but i thought it was a neat novelty and mainly bought it because it has a really nice pump type squeeze handle, looks like your gas station nozzle but you pump the lever to transfer fuel, works great for all the small equipment i deal with.

I usually go through a five gallon jug every two weeks for various equipment i run on a regular basis. When your turning over your fuel fast enough you never get problems. If you plan on storing something for years run some treated fuel through it, drain it out, oil the cylinder through the plug hole, etc.. I don't suggest treating and leaving for five years, but a half to one year its not a problem if treated.

Thanks, I needed that.
Makes the most sense.

I've 'topped off' my tanks with carbon dioxide gas since it's heavier than air.
Propane will displace air too but sounds scary.
That's why they say to hang upside down if one gets a lung full of propane.

Anyway...

My 'farm truck' that sits for months usually starts so fast it'll scare me and it gets abused with pump gas.
89 f250 302.
but everything has been getting a splash of seafoam.
I just got some stabil on sale for 2.99 yesterday so I guess it's time for a fuel rotation party.
I use clear fuel line to siphon and usually draw gas from the low corners of whatever tank I'm draining and Never pour that last bit of gas out of my gas cans into anything that runs in case there's water in the bottom.

Nothin' like looking in a 30 year old gas tank and seeing that gorgeous medium silver grey semi reflective bare metal shining back.

I'll have to redo my experiment with a glass jar, and a few drops of water and ome 'heet'.

I THINK it mixes with water and circulates it into the gas to keep it from rotting holes where it sits in the bottom of tanks.

Luckily, non etoh gas is only 4 miles away.

I miscalculated and had to use it in my 47 jd tractor.

Honest to god, the heat waves off the muffler with pump gas were about 8 inches tall and when I 'wasted' that good non etoh gas in th e tractor to finish my day, the heat waves from the non etoh gas were under 2 inches tall, whatever that means.

Sure sounded happier too.
That old engine will run on almost anything incl. kerosene.

Hey, thanks for the abridged version.

Off to the store for more stabil, seafoam and heet.

[just ben]

This picture you took, it was of the exact product in the video? Cause your results don't look very encouraging.same chit. only sold at homo depot around here. Funny thing is I was there today with a friend in the rental department and they had it right on the counter. I mentioned to my friend that the claims are BS,the cashier heard me and asked if I had seen the video. I explained that I have and did my own test last night . that was the end of that conversation. Another snake oil product if you ask me.

[tri again]

I'd like to confuse this 'non - issue' with a useless fact.

They say if you pour 50 cc of alcohol into 50cc of water you will not get
100 cc's total.

Because of different molecular size, it's like pouring equal amounts of
sand into an equal amount of marbles.

Thanks for the opportunity to procrastinate.

It's freakin' cccold out and gonna rain for a week but I am all staged
to move equipment around, fill some tanks and rotate fuel in others
and then fix the god blessed roof leak, and get some firewood on the porch.

No idea how I ever found time to go to work.

Have fun and be safe everyone.

[kb0nly]

same chit. only sold at homo depot around here. Funny thing is I was there today with a friend in the rental department and they had it right on the counter. I mentioned to my friend that the claims are BS,the cashier heard me and asked if I had seen the video. I explained that I have and did my own test last night . that was the end of that conversation. Another snake oil product if you ask me.

If i see this stuff for sale anywhere i might buy some just to make a video to put up myself on youtube to counter that guys claims.

Now that said i wonder what he did or used in the video to make it "appear" to work. Your picture appears to be the same color after treatment, but its not mixed together like his showed.

[just ben]

what they did to make it appear to work is video editing. I used fuel 93 mixed with amsoil interceptor which is gold colored and the additive is also gold color.

[aldochina]

thanks ben! glad i didnt waste my money! i was gonna!

[kb0nly]

If they video edited they did a really really good job of it, because i don't see any inconsistencies in the video. But i would agree they did something not on the level here. I found out the local Menards here has this stuff in the outdoor equipment department, i might buy a small bottle to try so i can take pictures and video, but if i do there will be something else in the shot, like a time clock so you can see the seconds and tenths of a second counting down to prove there is no stop editing going on here.