Working on my John Deere 330 diesel and need a little advice.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So today I spent some quality time with my old 330 Diesel. Got the deck off, cleaned and sprayed down with Fluid Film to prevent corrosion over the winter. Snowblower attatchment is checked over, lubed and mounted up ready to go.

My Grandfather bought this tractor brand new in '86 I believe and he owned it till he passed away in '10 and I bought it from my Grandmother. When I got it I noticed quite a bit of white crusty stuff built up inside the radiator. You can easily see it when you remove the cap.

So, I mosey on down to the parts store today and bought a bottle of Prestone Coolant System cleaner. Says on the bottle to drain the whole system, poor the whole bottle of cleaner in and top off the rest of the way with water. Run the engine 10 minutes or more after reaching full operating temp. Then drain that off, fill with straight water and repeat the process to flush the cleaner out. Then refill with coolant and away ya go.

Well, I went the extra mile and ran the engine at 3/4 throttle for a good half hour. Pull the cap and the white junk is still there just as thick too. So, I drained enough off to put about half a bottle of vinegar in and tried that. All I accomplished was to make the white crusty junk kind of gooey, but still as much there as ever. It will be OK in cold winter temps but I am a little worried about mowing on a hot summer day that the radiator might not be flowing like it should,

Anybody have any tips or tricks to really getting this radiator clean?? My wife suggested trying CLR but we don't have any under the sink at the moment and I'm not sure if the water pump seals would agree with CLR...

Any tips/tricks very much appreciated.
Thanks.

[Stonewall]

Does the water supply where your granddad lived have alot of calcium in it? It sounds like you've got calcium buildup on there. We have alot of calcium in our water, and we buy distilled water at the grocery store to avoid getting calcium in our radiators. CLR should get rid of it, but I have no idea what it would do to the seals... Hopefully someone else has used it and will know.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm not sure of how their water is. I know it's very good drinking water, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't have calcium in it..

[midsouthtrikes]

Tide in powder form works wonders. You may have to flush it a few times but it seems to work. Don't use the knock off brand, use Tide.

[bkm]

Remember this isn't a washing machine or dish washer. The short answer is that it needs to be removed and taken to a radiator shop to be boiled out. I wouldn't go putting just anything in a radiator that reaches 200+ degrees and is under pressure.

[midsouthtrikes]

Mechanics have been using tide in diesel cooling systems for years. It is going to take a good detergent to break up that crud. Sure you can remove the radiator and have it boiled out but that's not gonna get the crud out of the engine and rest of coolant system.

[big red in iowa]

cascade powder dish washer detergent, this stuff is the bomb

[atc007]

x2 on the cascade.. It will clean her up,,unless it's worse than I/m thinking. Good luck RR !

[Dirtcrasher]

If it's easily removed, you may want to just to go to a radiator shop; For short money they can clean it and deal with any leaks.

Just remember how much time YOU are putting into it, and you have to pay yourself.

Toss a thermostat in there while your at it.

Or, it could be like my JD backhoe/loader that nothing seems accessible........

[bkm]

x2 on the cascade.. It will clean her up,,unless it's worse than I/m thinking. Good luck RR !I didn't know that cascade was non foaming. This is what worried me with putting dish or laundry soap in a system like this. I learned something new today.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well guys, thanks for the input and I will tuck it away for future reference.

Just talked to my brother who used ot be a diesel mechanic. He just happens to have some industrial strength cooling system flush chemical he used to use at his job as a diesel mechanic. According to him, it will do the trick. He said it would effectively clean a big rig system that was contaminated with engine oil from oil cooler failures with ease. I guess it's kind of dangerous as he told me to avoid letting it touch my skin and gloves and safety glasses are a must when working with it. I don't know yet what exactly it is, but he's going to hook me up. I didn't know he happened to have this stuff kicking around, whatever it is.

You poor 1 gallon of this stuff into a truck radiator, and fill the rest of the 10+ gallon system with water. Run the truck an hour or so and it should be squeaky clean. Pretty potent stuff I think. Sounds like just the ticket. I'll let you guys know how it works when I get the job done.

Oh and for the record, I asked him about using CLR and if it would be harmful to seals and gaskets and he said yes. So, do NOT use CLR to flush a cooling system... NO-GO.


And yes DC, things are kind of cramped under the hood of this little JD. Body size, it's about the size of your typical 318, but this has an in-line 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel in it. Radiator is in the steering column/bulkhead, battery up front just behind the grill where you would think the radiator should be. I had a heck of a miserable time replacing my fan/alternator belt last night too. You guessed it, fan is toward the rear and you have to disconnect the driveshaft to change the belt. VERY tight even with the driveshaft disconnected to say the least. I absolutley LOVE this tractor, but certain mantainence tasks are quite the chore with it. I don't think it would be too bad to pull the radiator, but I would like to avoid it if I can. If this pro-grade flush solution doesn't work, I'll pull the rad and take it to a shop....

[atc007]

As already mentioned,,pulling the rad,,ONLY cleans the rad! The rest of the components remain covered in crap. Rad shops certainly have their place,but you are after a system flush. Whatever you use,,make sure it's all flushed back out before you put your final coolant in. But you know that.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Absolutely ATC007..

Question though, are the deposits more likely to build up in the rad due to the materials the rad is contructed of? Or are these types of deposits indifferent and build up just as much in cast as in the radiator (whatever thin material that is made of ie: not cast iron)

I have seen rust buildup in the water jackets of iron block engine, mainly inboard/outboard boat engines that scavenge water from the lake to cool. But I don't really recall ever coming across white calcium, lyme or whatever is in my rad now in the jackets of an iron block?? I'm not saying I have years of extensive experience to go on here... just wondering if some characteristic of the radiator makes it more prone to build-up forming.. Or am I barking up the wrong tree??

Thanks again for all the helpful replies fallas! :beer

[midsouthtrikes]

In a closed loop system they tend to have buildup throughout the system. It is usually caused be coolant breakdown or contaminants getting into the system. Coolant does not last forever, its additives breakdown over time. What is the first thing a person adds to a cooling system that is slightly low? Water, and if you use tap water instead of distilled it will leave hard water minerals inside the system. As long as you maintain the system and change it when recommended by the oe, the system will last a very long time.

[kb0nly]

The stuff your buddy has is probably muriatic acid based, we used stuff like that on the farm to flush out the tractors cooling systems every couple years. The stuff is caustic as heck and will eat through anything, including you, so think safety when using that stuff!! I remember how it always seemed to eat a little more of the paint away from the filler and drain when it came time to flush.

The CLR isn't safe on rubber, but there is many other hard water buildup removal products that will do the same job that are safe on rubber, just have to read the bottle on them. I have used CLR on rads before, but not on the tractor or vehicle. I usually removed them and used a small pool pump and a couple hoses rigged up to circulate the water through the radiator, pour in a bottle of CLR and then top off with distilled water, close it up, turn on the pump, and come back the next day if it was really bad. You would have a totally clean radiator. If it was bad buildup it might take draining it and flushing with water a few times then another CLR treatment to eat it all out, but it would save an otherwise very expensive paperweight.

Once i had the rad clean i would put it back together and then run some commercial cleaner like your buddy has to clean out the engine. The problem i usually had was if it was built up that bad you would be circulating a lot of crap through as it broke loose and would plug up the radiator and you had to do additional treatments to then clear up the radiator. You might have to do a couple treatments and water flushes to get it all out. And when you get it clean use distilled water only from now on.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Again, thanks for the insight guys. :beer

I have worked with muriatic acid based cleaners before, mainly boat bottom cleaner on my fiberglass boat and yes that stuff is N-A-S-T-Y! Works awesome though! It effortlessly melts away brown staining that heavy scrubbing and the best normal cleaners barely touch.

My brother is going to bring me that flush fliud tonight and I'll get to the job in the coming days and let you know how it worked...

Oh, and I almost always buy/use the pre-mixed 50/50 coolant so as to avoid any confusion of "gee, is that partial jug of antifreeze mixed or no" and to avoid the temptation of using tap water. I only buy non mixed in a pinch if pre mixed isn't available...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, I tried the super-duper flush solution my brother gave me and it barely touched the lime scale or whatever it is in the radiator.

So, before I take the radiator to a shop I may try one more thing. Remove the radiator, seal off the hose outlets and fill it with CLR and let it soak over night. If that doesn't work then off to the radiator shop I go...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well guys, after a "torrent of obscenity and swearing" that as far as I know is still hanging in space over Oneida Lake.. I removed the radiator from my 330 Diesel tonight and as of right now it is sitting on my bench full of CLR solution for a day or 2 soak....

That thing was an absolute miserable witch to get out!! Don't know how I'm going to get it back in.. All I know is it's going to be "FUN"!!

I'll post up results of the soak in CLR solution in a day or 2.

[SWIGIN]

Those rod knockers are a PITA to work on...lol

[kb0nly]

The CLR should eat a lot of it out, but don't let it just sit there still, go by and shake the crap out of it now and then or at least rotate it, spin it to sitting on another side for a bit then repeat after a few hours, etc.

I have a little pool pump that i made a set of hoses for, its for one of those kids pools and has a filter cartridge in it, i put the inlet to the bottom of the rad and outlet to the top and just fill it with CLR and turn on the pump. The filter in the pump catches the crusty junk that breaks loose and flushes out. I had a really really stubborn heater core that i had to do once, thats how this solution came into play. It ran for three days, the inside was so clean it was amazing afterwards, and the pool pump filter was nearly fully restricted from the chunks of junk that came out.

Let us know how it goes for you! If the CLR doesnt work find a local radiator shop and have them boil it, they will cost a bit to do it but if anyone can get it clean its a good rad shop. I have one here that still fixes anything you bring to him, his moto is nothing gets thrown out and boy does he live by it, but then he is a true wizard at fixing this stuff.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yep, I havent been home since 3 this morning, but I will be headed out to shake it up as best I can a little bit. Unfortunatly, I don't have the means to really seal off the hose outlets secure enough to really shake it up good. It's basically laying face down with the hose outlets pointed up....

Goin to give it another day and see what happens... Pool filter and pump is a nifty idea.... Wish I had one right now! LOL! :beer

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, after a 2 day soak with CLR, I will be taking the radiator to a shop. Barely touched it.

Spoke with a rad shop and they said it sounds like calcium or lime deposits. He said if they could do anything at all the most I could expect is for them to get 60-70% of it cleaned out... Not real encouraging.

[kb0nly]

Wow... CLR is Calcium, Lime, Rust remover, so if that didn't take it out... Well.. Wow.

Thats some tough buildup. I have taken off some really nasty stuff with CLR before. Dump some of the The Works toilet bowl cleaner in there and stand back... LOL.. I don't know what else to try if its that hard in there.

[tri again]

Someone may have dumped plaster of paris in there years and years ago.

They usually never overheat so there's gotta be some overdesigned
cooling ratio.

My last few gas tank / radiator issues led me to "call da guy".

For 40 bucks they rod them, caustic boil and fix all the pinleaks with nice
warm flowing solder.

When I fool with that stuff, it usually takes 10 times longer an nothin' but headaches,
but disaster usually follows me this time of year.

I WOULD like to know......
say, if we use muriatic acid to clean / kill / neutralize rust....
or any other rust neutralizer chemical, by definition, it should not react with clean steel but only react with iron oxide. Fe+2 ferric and Fe+3 ferrous (oxide)
..add an acid and it should take care of itself, chemically.

If a tank's real rusty and the (preferred chemical) eats away to get down to the very last bit of rust holding the metal together, it seems like the 'fix it' chemical is
attacking the non oxydized metal.

I guess my question is:

Any of the 'cleaner / neutralizing' chemicals should have no effect on healthy steel,
just the rust.


Rick at Rick's restorations on the history channel likes to use por15 on his
projects.

Man, I wish I knew more about this stuff.

Best of luck to you.
I hope you don't need the tractor desperately and have time to decide what's the bes way to go.

Certainly don't wanna go through this again anytime soon.

Not sure how but JD can build stuff with 30 parts that anyone else can accomplish with
14.

(my grill and brackets will Never ever go back on mine.)

[atc007]

Wow... CLR is Calcium, Lime, Rust remover, so if that didn't take it out... Well.. Wow.

Thats some tough buildup. I have taken off some really nasty stuff with CLR before. Dump some of the The Works toilet bowl cleaner in there and stand back... LOL.. I don't know what else to try if its that hard in there.

Stick to the electronics KB !! Just kidding lol.. But seriously,,do NOT put Works in there. . That stuff is the nastiest dollar bill you can spend .You WILL be buying a new rad. Sounds like you may anyhow... Sounds like it was worse than any of us gave it credit for.. Sorry nothing else did the trick.

[kb0nly]

Thats why i said LOL after mentioning The Works... LOL.....

If it comes down to a new rad its time for the extreme! But i am really surprised the CLR didn't eat it out, i have had nothing but good luck with that.

[atc007]

Gotcha...lol...That stuff is NASTY !!! I thought it would be a done deal after his brothers rad treatment..

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I really hope I don't have to buy a new radiator for it... They are freakin expensive!! The engine is a Yanmar 3 cyl, 20hp. The radiator is made by Toyo if I recall correctly.

I think 60-70% reduction would be quite satisfactory. The engine has never overheated, even in hot summertime conditions while mowing. I'm going to go ahead and finish the snowblowing season as-is and then take the radiator to a shop in the spring between snowblowing and mowing season.

Thanks again to all who offered advice and suggestions. Merry Christmas! :beer