The 200X is probably gonna have to come back apart

[RodKnockRacing]

As some of you know I got my 85 200X runnin over the summer and Ive been riding pretty much everyday since. But yesterday there was a lot of top end chatter, so I pulled the valve caps and the exhaust side was way out of adjustment and intake wasnt far behind. I adjusted them but then I noticed the was hardly any oil around the valve springs. The motor was cold but there should be a decent amount of oil there right? Also it recently started smoking some when you first fire it up then clears out when its warm, could that be worn valve seals caused by lack of oil? I just figured id ask a couple questions and tell you guys what Im dealing with. Thanks

[dustrunner]

yep, sounds like valve seals leaking by. oil needs to get to the valve train . how long had the engine ran ? what was the temp ?

[RodKnockRacing]

Ive been runnin it for 5 months. It doesnt over heat

[fabiodriven]

Bad valve seals will not cause oil starvation in your head.

There could be many reasons why you are not getting enough oil to the head. Could be a blocked oil passage, either with gasket sealer from the last time the engine was assembled or just with crud. Could be a bad oil pump.

A common thing that happens with those motors is the cam journals wear out. Then the oil just dumps right out of the excessive tolerance.

[RodKnockRacing]

Ill have to check the oil pump ive never had it apart because the 2 screws that hold it on are a pain to get out. I thought about taking the back cap nut off and running a small diameter metal wire down threw there and see if it makes all the way threw.

[El Camexican]

All else being in good order valve lash should get tighter with age as the seats pound in and take up the space. If yours are loose it sounds like cam wear which is usually caused by oil starvation, heat or too tight a lash setting. Smoking on startup is a telltale sign of worn valve steam seals which besides age and use, can happen due to a lack of oil. If your engine suddenly started rattling out of the blue that’s a bad sign. You need to check for oil flow before you run it much more. Can you run the engine with a valve cover off, or is there a galley hole you can open to see if oil is flowing? I wouldn’t worry much about how much oil you see sitting in the head when the engine is off, most of it runs down as soon as you shut off the motor.

[WIkid500]

Shine a light from the intake valve cover on the rocker box and see if there is oil in the little box the cam sits in. That area holds oil when the engine is stopped, the rest runs back down along the cam chain. If you fire it up with the intake side rocker cover off you should see plenty of oil going to the valves/rockers/ cam. Good luck.

[yaegerb]

When you take the valve cap off, you should see oil pumping into the head. It will be VERY evident. If its not then like others said, it could be a blocked oil passage. The smoke is occurring from worn valve seals. While you are in the head, changing your seals, blow out all your oil passages. One other culprit that you need to examine is the oil rotor. You need to pop the cap and clean out the sludge/crap that builds in the rotor cup. While you have that off you need to inspect the rotor gears that assist in pumping oil to the head. Double check all that, replace where needed and you should be good to go.

[RodKnockRacing]

Thanks guys Im gonna go threw everything. I imagine it cant be a complete lack of oil because as much as Ive rode it. It would of seized the cam bushing by now but ill find out when i have time to go threw it.

[fabiodriven]

Usually the cam doesn't seize, it just destroys the surface on the head on which it rides.

Also, there is no cam bushing to replace. The cam rides on the head itself.

[kb0nly]

Usually the cam doesn't seize, it just destroys the surface on the head on which it rides.

Also, there is no cam bushing to replace. The cam rides on the head itself.

The front end of the cam rides on the aluminum casting, the back end rides in a cam bushing.

[Dirtcrasher]

The cam spins in a cast hole/bath so the cam will get lube immediately. Once it's warm, the oil will get there.

Sadly, the 200X is indestructible as long as it has oil and too many people don't check their oil.

And don't forget checking the oil pump.

Not intended for your situation :D

[fabiodriven]

That's not the first thing I've dropped the ball on today. I'm just gonna go ahead and shut up now.

Although I will say my 200X did wear the aluminum side and I was told that's not an uncommon issue with those.

[Dirtcrasher]

You did put that oil gallery rubber plug in the head, correct??

You should be able to crack the head nut off the oil system and see if oil comes out the head when running.

If u don't wanna make it worse, take off the valve adjusting plug and giver her some oil lovin......

[RodKnockRacing]

You did put that oil gallery rubber plug in the head, correct??

You should be able to crack the head nut off the oil system and see if oil comes out the head when running.

If u don't wanna make it worse, take off the valve adjusting plug and giver her some oil lovin......
Yep that plug is in. Ill definitely crack the head nut and check the oil flow. Im also gonna check the oil pump and probably replace the o rings behind the pump, and give er some oil lovin

[kb0nly]

That's not the first thing I've dropped the ball on today. I'm just gonna go ahead and shut up now.

Although I will say my 200X did wear the aluminum side and I was told that's not an uncommon issue with those.

I have seen quite a few 200 heads with nasty wear marks on the cam bearing surface. What i have been wondering, since there is only a matter of time before the good head supply dries up as more of them get toasted, can it be line bored or honed in a jig somehow and then install a bushing or bearing? I forsee a future modification if the supply starts to get low. Right now it seems like you can buy a dozen good ones off ebay at any given time and all the 200's are swappable, i just worry what happens if we ever get to a level of rarity on the good ones.

I was thinking someone could easily design something for that front cam bearing surface. What i would like to see is just bored out for some cam bearings, it wouldn't be too hard i think to get them made the correct size, and since it splits at the cam you could make a notch in both halves to hold it and use a split pair. I don't know, just thinking out loud. I have had to toss a few heads and rocker covers onto the spare parts pile from tearing down engines that got oil starved.

[torque]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-xr200-cylinder-head-cam-camshaft-journal-repair-xl200-atc200x-200x-xr-200-/110787085473?forcev4exp=true&item=110787085473&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_1182

mega cycle also makes a cam with needle brga at both ends. its a drop in no machining required. they are expensive 350 plus shipping

[Dirtcrasher]

No doubt about it, you can definitely line bore it and use bushings or a couple of needle bearings.

Either that or give your bad leg to a machine shop! :D

[kb0nly]

Hmm that listing is interesting, $80 plus $15 shipping, for $95 each i could salvage a couple top ends, thats honestly pretty decent price wise. The listing ended back in January though and he doesn't seem to have relisted this. He still doing it?

Looked at the megacycle cam, i see how they did it, they made a new cam without the front journal and a new custom pulse gen base with bearing.

[torque]

i cant take credit for finding that ebay link. i think leevanardo posted that link when i was going down the same road trying to save a ported head that i bought. i went with the mega cycle set up instead.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w412/EyeCandyPowderCoating/gopro021.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w412/EyeCandyPowderCoating/gopro022.jpg

[greenhuman]

Most of the Chinese 200cc heads have full bearing cams and bigger valves as well. Their cylinders have the CRF230 style of cam chain tensioners which is much better than the old 200X one. You can buy a complete new top end for a couple of hundred bucks or less off ebay.

[torque]

i had one of those chonda 200 motors in a gio that i bought for my wife. it had a terrible vibration and ran like crap. i always wanted to put a 26mm kihien 200x carb on it to see if it ran any better, but never had the chance

[greenhuman]

was it a OHC or pushrod style? The pushrod ones are very ordinary but all the OHC models I have had did not vibrate at all and are very reliable.

[RodKnockRacing]

Well the valve train is smoked. I pulled it apart today cam journals ruined cam ruined. Everything was covered in this greasy sludge it was definitely a lack of oil. Now its just a matter of cleaning all the oil passages and getting parts. I just hope i have a useable cylinder head laying around. Live and learn I guess