esr310 powervalve or not?

[threewheelin-feelin]

ok guys my 250r is getting very tired and its time for a rebuild. im going to be purchasing a new left side case from a member here and im trying to deside what i want to do with this bike. ive been looking at the esr 310 kit and i see they have a powervalve cylinder and a non powervalve cylinder. i pretty much only use this bike for drag racing and use my 350x or bigred for everything else. so what would you guys recommend on this? money is a problem and i will be selling my 200x to do this. im probably going with the 38mm airstriker from esr as well. and i have a fmf fatty already so give me some recommendations guys. thanks!!

also if yall have recommendations for another way to build it on a limited budget let me know

[KASEY]

no powervalve needed

[RIDE-RED 250r]

^^^I agree^^^

Especially on a budget. Have ESR or another reputable shop port it for mid-top and it should run well for what you like to do. I'm told by several who have experience, that the "as-cast" porting is not very good. And on that advice I had my ESR 350 ported TRX9 (mid-top) by ESR for the extra $100. It runs very strong and I am very happy with it. I would spend the extra $100 on the custom porting rather than the PV setup myself...

[JasonB]

agreed on the no powervalve; i am extremely satisfied with my 310 non PV motor and it runs strong. I just switched to race gas on mine too, and i only did the trx7 port work too so im more for mid and playing all around.

[NOS_350X]

agreed on the no powervalve; i am extremely satisfied with my 310 non PV motor and it runs strong. I just switched to race gas on mine too, and i only did the trx7 port work too so im more for mid and playing all around.
With a good, carb, reeds and a bad ass pipe.
310's can run good, but do all the work around the cyl too

[threewheelin-feelin]

ok what do you guys recommend for reeds? and how bad is it to run a fmf fatty?

[KASEY]

i run only boysen dual stage reeds in every 250r i own

[NOS_350X]

Reeds, A rad valve is a good choice for midrange, Vf2's and ESR for topend. An FMF pipe isnt bad there are just better options out there.

[riverrat]

I just built a ESR power valve motor and all I can say is WOW. Takes off like a 4 stroke and revs out like a two stroke. Very smooth ride-able power band. Loose the fmf pipe. Get a Paul Turner high rev or ESR atc5. Night and day on the pipe change. Set it up to run the highest compression you can for the fuel you intend to use. Also I am happy with my ESR reeds. ESR is pretty cool, if you purchase a bunch of things together, they will cut you a nice deal usually. They were giving me the billet goodys for half price when I got my cylinder kit.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I just built a ESR power valve motor and all I can say is WOW. Takes off like a 4 stroke and revs out like a two stroke. Very smooth ride-able power band. Loose the fmf pipe. Get a Paul Turner high rev or ESR atc5. Night and day on the pipe change. Set it up to run the highest compression you can for the fuel you intend to use. Also I am happy with my ESR reeds. ESR is pretty cool, if you purchase a bunch of things together, they will cut you a nice deal usually. They were giving me the billet goodys for half price when I got my cylinder kit.

I can confirm to that.. I bought my big bore kit, ATC5 full exhaust, reedblock all at the same time. They didn't charge me for case boring and ended up charging me almost $200 less for all the stuff I bought than if I were to order online. Make sure you call to place your order, that's what I did. Plus I have heard quite a few people have had alot of trouble with their online ordering service...

Your FMF system will get the job done pretty good, but to get the full potential out of your 310, do as other suggest, get the ESR ATC5 or PT pipe. I have not run a PT, but my ATC5 pipe works awesome with my big bore.

[pantera1975]

I have a 330 with out the power valve. You can lug the motor in a higher gear than stock. I have esr's clean up porting called trx9. I'm told having a pro porting job will really make a differnce. You will have to smash you fmf pipe on the back side for coolant hose clearance. I run a esr exhaust,39mm carb v force reeds and a full airbox without the lid. Lots of power. Gotta be careful riding it. IMO no need for the power valvePeople say they have bad bottom end, Yes compared to a pro ported 330 but alot more than stock.

[pcs]

if you go with the esr kit, IMO if you are going for high hp #s i wouldnt spend the extra money on their port job and just get a drag port from a shop that builds drag engines. like pantera said, getting them ported really works.for reeds, i wouldnt even consider anything from boyesen, they dont compare to vf 3 or the esr billet reeds for building high hp. if you go with esr reeds get the ones without the built in spacer bc it will give you more clearance with the rear shock and carb. carb 39mm or bigger with a UPP manifold. you can also play with the esr reeds since they are aluminum so you can have them opened up a bit too. fmf pipes just look shiny and arent good drag race pipes.

[NOS_350X]

fmf pipes just look shiny and arent good drag race pipes.

Well then my pipe is the only option, Or OOF

[MTS]

Anyone care to explain why they do not run a Variable exhaust valve other than the extra 100$??? figure "THEY" have been running them in every two stroke for the last 20 yrs for a reason...Less time and more comp down low and More time and less on top? whats to loose? Just a question

[pcs]

NOS350x: if fmf is your only option then go for it. from my personal experience with dyno testing fmf pipes on quadzillas make less hp than the oem, on lt250r they only shift the power curve and rev out further, and on a trx250r i saw dyno testing pipes, it was the 2nd worst pipe ahead of a dg pipe and way behind esr, ldr, pt, and shearer.

MTS: pv or variable exh motors work better than the non version by spreading the power band over a greater rpm range. when the manufacturers design engines, they are usually designed to operate over a wide range of applications, hence a pv engine with work better. however for strictly drag race/ high rpm operations the pv will not be used bc it will be opened the entire time so it is not needed and will just add more moving parts to the engine and require you to run pv pre mix oil to keep you from gumming up the pv unless you like to take off your top end just to clean it. adding a pv to the engine will not add hp only spread what you already have.

[zmpolaristech]

OK, I am NO honda guy, but I am building a powervalved ESR 360 stroker for a buddy of mine. He is going to use it for mainly flat tracking, so he had ESR do the TRX9 port before sending it out...All I can say...UGLY! I do all my owne port work, and what they sent us looks 10 times worse than my "Rough-out" porting. It looks like some shmow spent 20 mins with a carbide bit hogging out the ports...
I always wanted to buy a ESR PV cylinder kit for my banshee, but after seeing my buddy's cylinder, I certainly wouldn't let ESR touch the porting!!! If you buy an ESR cylinder, don't have them port it, send it to someone who doesn't look at like an assembly line job! There are much more capable porters out there...and you'll be much happier. After all, you get what you pay for! A $100 port job is just that...A $100 PORT!

[ONEBAD350X]

OK, I am NO honda guy, but I am building a powervalved ESR 360 stroker for a buddy of mine. He is going to use it for mainly flat tracking, so he had ESR do the TRX9 port before sending it out...All I can say...UGLY! I do all my owne port work, and what they sent us looks 10 times worse than my "Rough-out" porting. It looks like some shmow spent 20 mins with a carbide bit hogging out the ports...
I always wanted to buy a ESR PV cylinder kit for my banshee, but after seeing my buddy's cylinder, I certainly wouldn't let ESR touch the porting!!! If you buy an ESR cylinder, don't have them port it, send it to someone who doesn't look at like an assembly line job! There are much more capable porters out there...and you'll be much happier. After all, you get what you pay for! A $100 port job is just that...A $100 PORT!


that weird, I just got my 330 cylinder from esr on monday. The porting looks really nice. Tom gave me the ESR reed block free for waiting on the throttle cable.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/kjgroen/photobucket-45503-1349367212625.jpg

[zmpolaristech]

can I get a pic of the ex port? curious if its just his cyl that is screwed....

[ONEBAD350X]

can I get a pic of the ex port? curious if its just his cyl that is screwed....


sorry I dont have a close up of it.. But It is real nice and evenly cleaned out with a slightly rough finish. Hope you get it worked out. I have heard of this before with their porting. They have always treated me very fair though maybe try and call tom.

[zmpolaristech]

I had my buddy call and just tell them that "his engine builder isn't impressed with how rough of a port job was done to the clinder" Their response was, they leave room for improvement because some people like to have someone else port the cylinder. Which is ok if you purchased a non-ported cylinder, but if you pay the extra $ to have them port it (even if it is only $100) I expect a premiere job. After all, these kits aint cheap!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

My TRX9 porting looks pretty good to my eye... albeit untrained as my eye is when it comes to porting. That's an area I have no firsthand, extensive epxerience in. All I know is it's not as simple as just making ports bigger. It's a pretty delicate science involving achieving max flow capacity while still mantaining desireable velocity...

Anyway to the powervalve question.. IMHO, Rotax is about the only manufacturer who REALLY has the PV down pat. VERY trouble free design. Cat with their Suzuki powered sleds had alot of gremlins with their mechanically actuated PV setup.. Ask ANY sled guru who has had the best PV and he will tell you Rotax. I think PVs have largely been used on sled engines untill more recent years. Last I knew KASEY has an ESR 350PV and has had good performance and reliability. But I have seen alot of info in other places that lead me to believe that ESR has had some issues with their PV setup... BUT that seems to have largely been their earlier units sold. I think they have been better lately...

With some advice from members here, I'm glad I decided to go non-PV with my 350. For what I do a PV wouldn't be needed. I would venture a guess that my 350 with mid-top porting would STILL outpull a stock engine down low... Maybe I'm going out on a limb here though.. ;)

But, I have another possible suggestion... Have you given any thought to sending your stock cylinder to a real good shop and having that cylinder bored and pro ported?? This is my plan for my other '85 R that I will be ressurecting over this winter. I hear tell from lots of folks there are some good shops that can get some SERIOUS HP out of a stock cylinder. I'm talking about the kind of HP that will give most 310 kits fits all day long. Remember, an off the shelf 310 cylinder is actually a 295cc on it's first bore if running stock stroke. I bet you could get your stock cylinder massaged nicely for about the same money as the 310 kit and it would run just as good as 90% of 310's out there. Like I said, this is what I'm planning for my other 250r... I've done ALOT of looking around, reading feedback from other people who have done it and just plain learning about available options for these machines..

[pcs]

OK, I am NO honda guy, but I am building a powervalved ESR 360 stroker for a buddy of mine. He is going to use it for mainly flat tracking, so he had ESR do the TRX9 port before sending it out...All I can say...UGLY! I do all my owne port work, and what they sent us looks 10 times worse than my "Rough-out" porting. It looks like some shmow spent 20 mins with a carbide bit hogging out the ports...
I always wanted to buy a ESR PV cylinder kit for my banshee, but after seeing my buddy's cylinder, I certainly wouldn't let ESR touch the porting!!! If you buy an ESR cylinder, don't have them port it, send it to someone who doesn't look at like an assembly line job! There are much more capable porters out there...and you'll be much happier. After all, you get what you pay for! A $100 port job is just that...A $100 PORT!
i agree with you. especially after seeing some 310 kits making low to mid 40 whp with the ers port job/reeds/pipe then my ftz ported stock cylinder with esr reeds and same 39mm keihin make 49 whp. stock 250rs were making low to mid 30whp on that dyno.

[NOS_350X]

If Yall really wana know about the 250r fmf pipes or Porting Pm me, Im not going to get into a debate and hijack this thread, I will say my pipe knoledge is from the 250r, Im not judging a fmf pipe based on how they performed on a zilla or any other bike. Only how they perform on a atc.

[Billy Golightly]

People call me crazy, but out of all the "regular" pipes I've tried on a 250R (DG, LRD Adjustable, Bills, Paul Turner Hi-Rev & Type 6, ESR, and probably another 1 or 2 I'm not thinking of) the FMF pipe is my favorite one. Its got a smooth low and midrange, it'll rev out, and its got a usable power range thats not too peaky. It works better than all the others for my riding style.

[pantera1975]

that weird, I just got my 330 cylinder from esr on monday. The porting looks really nice. Tom gave me the ESR reed block free for waiting on the throttle cable.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/kjgroen/photobucket-45503-1349367212625.jpg

Dont for get to silicone your 3 exhaust flange bolts to prevent coolant from leaking into your pipe and wrecking your cylinder. Here is my cylinder after 20 minutes of use. I had a local shop do my motor the first time.

[pantera1975]

The esr pipe on a stock motor really moves compared to the esr, or a old PSI racing hi rev. More power all thru the throttle positions. Go on trx250r.net and ask performance questions. Most of these people are on there and its all 250R stuff.

[82 250r]

Have you given any thought to sending your stock cylinder to a real good shop and having that cylinder bored and pro ported??

This is a valid alternative to the aftermarket big bore products.
I went back and forth all summer between aftermarket big bore products or stock cylinder ported by one of the best.

I decided to take a stock, 66mm cylinder, and have Loren Duncan port it for me. The price is similar to a non ported, non pv, ESR 310 cylinder.


Marc

[zmpolaristech]

This is a valid alternative to the aftermarket big bore products.
I went back and forth all summer between aftermarket big bore products or stock cylinder ported by one of the best.

I decided to take a stock, 66mm cylinder, and have Loren Duncan port it for me. The price is similar to a non ported, non pv, ESR 310 cylinder.


Marc

And it will prob make more HP than a ESR 310 too!!! Duncan has been at this for a LONG time. I have ridden a few Rs with Duncan/PT port work, and was very impressed with both. Another friend of mine picked up a 250r in cali, ported by CPW...Sounds worn out as can be, rattles, piston slap etc...and boy does that thing haul the mail! Can't wait to ride it on a fresh top-end!

[pcs]

People call me crazy, but out of all the "regular" pipes I've tried on a 250R (DG, LRD Adjustable, Bills, Paul Turner Hi-Rev & Type 6, ESR, and probably another 1 or 2 I'm not thinking of) the FMF pipe is my favorite one. Its got a smooth low and midrange, it'll rev out, and its got a usable power range thats not too peaky. It works better than all the others for my riding style.
definitely agree with you on your riding style, when parts match up for your intended purpose all goes well. for me, mid to high range power and fmf just does not have the performance to match their shiny look. going to take ride reds word and get an esr pipe.

[riverrat]

ESR doesn't do fine port work, it is only a rough port job. But after doing a lot of investigating, cleaning up their port work will only give slight gains. Just as always, HP cost money. The more you try to get out of something, the more it costs exponentially. For $100 port job, it makes some good hp.

Oh and if you are only drag racing with it, I wouldn't bother with a PV, instead spend the extra money on a better port job, since in drag racing you are typically trying to get every last bit of hp out of your set up. Get a custom made drag pipe too.

[threewheelin-feelin]

i think im more lost now then before i asked the question lol.....ok let me ask this. if i go with the non pv 310 kit. the 38mm airstriker carb trx9 port work and the atc5 pipe how do you think i would do against the 450's? my cousin who is about 120 pounds lighter then me can beat 450s with my 250r in stock form..not always but about 50% of the time. so what do yall think? and also if i stick with a stock cylinder what would i have to do with it to make is equivalent to the set up i just described and would it be cheaper?

[82 250r]

First, You need to decide what the trike will be used for. If all you want to do is beat 450's, then port a stock OR 310 kit for top end, add your pipe, carb etc.

[threewheelin-feelin]

its going to be pretty much used only on the drag strip

[riverrat]

My ESR310 TRX9 porting 38mm mikuni, would beat a stock 450 on the ice, and blow it away on top end. Drag race I don't know, because drags are short, and 450's have a lot of grunt.
If it is drags only, get the drag porting, a drag pipe, 38-40mm carb, high compression dome for race gas.

[threewheelin-feelin]

alright how bout this guys. what would yall do with this thing if yall were on a $1000-$1200 budget?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

How fresh is the bottom end of your engine??

If it is original or you just don't know for sure, a crank rebuild along with new crank bearings would be adviseable if you plan to juice it up.

With your budget, you could get an ESR 310 with "as cast" porting and have a good shop do the custom porting. If you already have a descent exhaust, you should be able to get the 38mm Airstryker, the 310 cyl kit and get it ported.

OR you could go the route of haveing your stock cyl reworked with custom porting, get the head cut and re-chambered for race fuel, 38mm Airstryker and that would fly too.

One important variable... Do you plan to do the teardown and assembly yourself?? If you plan to have a shop do all the work that will eat into your build budget big time!

I'll tell you what my final goal is for my next '85 R I will be starting the "resto-mod" on this winter..
I already have an extra OEM cylinder with an oversize sleeve capable of being bored to 295cc displacement on a stock crank. It is on a well worn stock bore now. I would ultimately like to get it bored to 265cc, cut and re-chamber the head for race fuel, get it ported for mid-top by either BDT Motorsports or C-Leigh Racing, 38mm AS carb, no reed spacer and will probably be running FMF Fatty full exhaust. I bet that setup will run as good as just about any 310 cylinder kit. SLEEPER! :naughty:

I already have a Big Bore so that niche is filled...for now.. :naughty: I won't even go into what I have planned next for THAT trike! LOL!

[threewheelin-feelin]

i have a friend who is really good with splitting cases and he is going to do anything i need done for $100. so thats not to bad.
all the bearings and seals will be replaced in the bottom end. im just trying to figure what to do with the topend. the topend currently is bored .40 over and is stock compression(atleast thats what the previous owner said) fmf fatty exhaust and stock carb. maybe i should just get the stock cylinder worked....but i kinda wanted to stay away from race gas. isnt it about $6 or $7 a gallon?

[82 250r]

The aftermarket heads are getting to be a wise investment these days. The removable domes allow race or pump gas and should configured for the correct compression for a given application.
Compression is a big deal...spend some time with your builder to get it right.

Race gas in my area went up $3 per gallon in September 2012. $60 for 5 gallons. I got a spare removable dome that will run on pump gas when i need it.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I pay just about $9 per gallon for Sunoco 110.

The choice between 310 cyl kit and getting your OEM topend massaged is a tough one.... but it is all yours. :)

My personal leaning would be to get the OEM topend massaged as compared to the 310 kit. That is just my personal opinion

[threewheelin-feelin]

what do you guys think of this setup. atc5 pipe, 38mm airstriker, some really good reeds and custom mid-topend port job on the cylinder. think i would have a noticable difference? also what is the stock compression ration on these bikes?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I think that setup would run REALLY good! In fact, IMHO that would run with most 310's especially if you bored the cylinder out to 265cc while it's at the shop getting ported. There are shops out there that can get nearly 50 RWHP out of an OEM cylinder. I know dyno numbers aren't the end-all/be-all, but just to give you an idea..

That's essentially what I have planned for my next build with the exception of cutting the head for race fuel.

I think you have a winner!

I'll have to check my book because I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure stock compression ratio is 8:1

[threewheelin-feelin]

I think that setup would run REALLY good! In fact, IMHO that would run with most 310's especially if you bored the cylinder out to 265cc while it's at the shop getting ported. There are shops out there that can get nearly 50 RWHP out of an OEM cylinder. I know dyno numbers aren't the end-all/be-all, but just to give you an idea..

That's essentially what I have planned for my next build with the exception of cutting the head for race fuel.

take into consideration i must likely wont be running race gas but that doesnt mean i cant run the highest compression for 93 octane. how much more does it have to be bored to make it 265cc? it already at .40. i was told .60 was the limit on the stock cylinders.

I think you have a winner!

I'll have to check my book because I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure stock compression ratio is 8:1

take into consideration i most likely wont be running race gas but that doesnt mean i cant run the highest compression for 93 octane. how much more does it have to be bored to make it 265cc? it already at .40. i was told .60 was the limit on the stock cylinders.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Pretty sure you can go .080 (2.00mm) and actual displacement is 261cc. I have a stock cylinder that is whipped, but is at .080. That one needs to be re-sleeved if I ever need to run it again.

But, if you want to save your extra overbores (which is probably wise) it will still run well at .040 over with a good port job.

[threewheelin-feelin]

Pretty sure you can go .080 (2.00mm) and actual displacement is 261cc. I have a stock cylinder that is whipped, but is at .080. That one needs to be re-sleeved if I ever need to run it again.

But, if you want to save your extra overbores (which is probably wise) it will still run well at .040 over with a good port
job.

ok so it kinda comes down to compression ratio now and what to run with pump gas

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Generally speaking, if you keep the compression below about 195psi you should be OK to run premium pump fuel.

[threewheelin-feelin]

if im not mistaken the stock 250r makes up to 199 psi??? i know mine makes 175 last time i checked. i dont know all this info is making my head hurt lol...i guess it time to talk to my engine builder and see what he thinks and bring up all these options