mixed gas 40:1 ?

[dream3wheeler]

the guy i bought this from said he runs it on 40:1 gas, theres a sticker that says 20:1 only but ive also heard to go 50:1. i dont know how to mix gas yet anyway but either way im running into a question of what i should use. also...what kind of oil should i use ive heard i should use amsoil but ive also heard that yamalube has a much better advantage in performance and is much more reliable. i thought it was funny to put in yamalube in a honda but i have no idea what to really believe.

[just ben]

you may wanna try to use the search key But with so few oil threads on here, you may not get much help.

[Xpress]

You're opening up a MASSIVE can of worms here... Oil is a VERY personal choice when it comes to engines..

[gus]

You're opening up a MASSIVE can of worms here... Oil is a VERY personal choice when it comes to engines..

Agreed. It says run at 20:1 but you will be fouling plugs in about 5 mins,back in the day oil wasn't that grate as it is now so 20:1 is really not needed. I personal run at 50:1 and use golden spektro synthetic 2 stroke oil.

[Afrothunderkat]

Believe it or not, smokers make peak power at 18:1

Lots and lots of misconceptions about oil ratios. Most people think more gas, less oil, more power. Its the complete opposite. JET your trike to the oil ratio you want to run. Do not mix less or more oil to dial it in. Stick to 32:1 and jet accordingly.

REMEMBER

Castor works great at high content ratios but some of todays fully synthetics DO NOT have the same good results. Get a 30/70 mix, castor synthetic blend.

[Xpress]

Believe it or not, smokers make peak power at 18:1

Do we have dynomometer results?

[badass350x]

And its on!!!

[3Razors]

Yep 20:1 is where its at with a nice castor or synth blend oil..makes more power as it gives a better ring seal, contributes to the combustion process, crankshafts last much longer too. And now the peanut gallery will be along shortly to disagree with those facts.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Use of the search feature highly recommended on this and certain other topics......

[yamaha driver]

the guy i bought this from said he runs it on 40:1 gas, theres a sticker that says 20:1 only but ive also heard to go 50:1. i dont know how to mix gas yet anyway but either way im running into a question of what i should use. also...what kind of oil should i use ive heard i should use amsoil but ive also heard that yamalube has a much better advantage in performance and is much more reliable. i thought it was funny to put in yamalube in a honda but i have no idea what to really believe.

You shouldnt have asked... turn around and run FAST!!!

[dream3wheeler]

its nice to get opinions though. gives me info so that way i can put it all together and average it all out assuming that most ppl who have run 2 strokes longer than me know what they are talking about. i have respect for all opinions

[yamaha driver]

did you search oil threads yet? haha if you do prepare yourself

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Ok dream3wheeler, I can relate to looking for some input..

I run the oil I run at the ratio I run based on the professional advice of a couple of VERY reputable 250r builders....

I run Maxima 927 Castor at 32:1. (That's 4 ounces of oil per gallon of gasoline).

I used to run Amsoil Dominator. Last winter when I disassembled my old engine to do my 350 big bore I had corrosion starting to set in. On the back of the Dominator bottle it reads (paraphrasing since I don't have a bottle in front of me) "for use in high perfromance/racing applications where the engine is periodically disassembled for inspection". Doesn't sit well with me....

Some of the best 250r builders in the business recommend and run themselves Maxima 927 Castor, and at 32:1. One of said builders has dyno research that indicates 32:1 is the best ratio for maximum performance. But as with almost all things regarding what oil to use and at what ratio, that can be subjective......

[yamaha driver]

I run amsoil dominator at 32:1 and have never had a problem




Ok dream3wheeler, I can relate to looking for some input..

I run the oil I run at the ratio I run based on the professional advice of a couple of VERY reputable 250r builders....

I run Maxima 927 Castor at 32:1. (That's 4 ounces of oil per gallon of gasoline).

I used to run Amsoil Dominator. Last winter when I disassembled my old engine to do my 350 big bore I had corrosion starting to set in. On the back of the Dominator bottle it reads (paraphrasing since I don't have a bottle in front of me) "for use in high perfromance/racing applications where the engine is periodically disassembled for inspection". Doesn't sit well with me....

Some of the best 250r builders in the business recommend and run themselves Maxima 927 Castor, and at 32:1. One of said builders has dyno research that indicates 32:1 is the best ratio for maximum performance. But as with almost all things regarding what oil to use and at what ratio, that can be subjective......

Amsoil bottle says for use in highperfomance atv/snowmobile engines liquid/air cooled.
* Not suitable for long-term use in outboard motors as a TC-W3 type oil, although excellent as a race oil for short-term use where motors are periodically inspected. and a bunch of other mumbo jumbo

[El Camexican]

Here's my two cents...

-Every engine is different; small, high revving and hotter running engines usually need more oil than cooler, larger, lower revving engines
- The people who put “USE 20:1 OIL RATIO” on your machine were not sure of your math skills, or that you wouldn’t use Crusty the Clown Brand 2 stroke oil, so they went with a super safe ratio that was sure to get your engine past the expiration date of their warrantee
- Oil ratios affect jetting, pick a ratio and then jet your engine, not the other way around
- You only need as much oil as is needed to lubricate your engine for the way you drive it
- A little too much 2 stroke oil is better than not enough
- Plugs don’t foul because of too much oil; they foul because of too much fuel
- A properly jetted engine will run fine on a 20:1 mix and it won’t smoke much more than it would at 40:1 , but it may get gummed up and spew oil out the pipe at some point unless you’re running at WOT all the time
- You can seize an engine if you put too much oil in the fuel as the oil displaces gasoline and creates a leaner air to fuel ratio
- You will slowly wear out an engine if you don't use enough oil, the connecting rod bearings will suffer the most
- You can’t go wrong using good name brand oil between 32: 1 and 40:1 and then properly jetting your ride
- If you want to run 50:1 you’d best good with math or use a mixing bottle as you’re cutting it close at that ratio
PS. If you think the guys on this site (or any other) know more than the guys that make 2 stroke oil, then keep reading, you’re bound to eventually ascertain enough information to proclaim yourself to be an expert like all the rest of us here have:welcome:

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Here's my two cents...

-Every engine is different; small, high revving and hotter running engines usually need more oil than cooler, larger, lower revving engines
- The people who put “USE 20:1 OIL RATIO” on your machine were not sure of your math skills, or that you wouldn’t use Crusty the Clown Brand 2 stroke oil, so they went with a super safe ratio that was sure to get your engine past the expiration date of their warrantee
- Oil ratios affect jetting, pick a ratio and then jet your engine, not the other way around
- You only need as much oil as is needed to lubricate your engine for the way you drive it
- A little too much 2 stroke oil is better than not enough
- Plugs don’t foul because of too much oil; they foul because of too much fuel- A properly jetted engine will run fine on a 20:1 mix and it won’t smoke much more than it would at 40:1 , but it may get gummed up and spew oil out the pipe at some point unless you’re running at WOT all the time
- You can seize an engine if you put too much oil in the fuel as the oil displaces gasoline and creates a leaner air to fuel ratio- You will slowly wear out an engine if you don't use enough oil, the connecting rod bearings will suffer the most
- You can’t go wrong using good name brand oil between 32: 1 and 40:1 and then properly jetting your ride
- If you want to run 50:1 you’d best good with math or use a mixing bottle as you’re cutting it close at that ratio
PS. If you think the guys on this site (or any other) know more than the guys that make 2 stroke oil, then keep reading, you’re bound to eventually ascertain enough information to proclaim yourself to be an expert like all the rest of us here have:welcome:

Very good post, but the ones highlighted particularly are a couple of VERY good and largely misunderstood points!!! Kudos to you Sir! :beer

[bslama69]

Interesting to read the preferences and experiences of others. I have always used a high quality, non-synthetic oil and mixed at 40:1. A few years ago a friend that I ride with recommended that I switch to a fully-synthetic oil called "Klotz R-50". It's expensive but I don't get nearly as much "oil-sputter" running this oil as I used to. The underside of my fenders on my Banshee and Tri-Z were always coated with little black dots from unburned oil spraying out of the exhaust. My LT500 was the worst! Since switching to the Klotz R-50 this is greatly reduced.

This coming season I am going to switch to 32:1 based on some of the comments posted here. Just had my Banshee rebuilt. I usually get about 8 trips to Glamis before needing a top end. I'll see if it goes longer at 32:1.

[dream3wheeler]

Thanks for all the posts, im greatful to hear all of your input. Just to add on to the post id like to ask if anyone has any input on using pennzoil 2 stroke oil.

[bowtieboy]

Ive always ran 30:1 in my bikes, never a problem. A lil more oil wont hurt anything.

Like said 50:1 is gettin up there, and is a lil lean for this guy.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Thanks for all the posts, im greatful to hear all of your input. Just to add on to the post id like to ask if anyone has any input on using pennzoil 2 stroke oil.

In all honesty, it's probably fine so long as it meets the same API standard requirements listed in the Honda service manual.

But I will admit that I'm an O.C.D. freak when it comes to my baby and I would only run it in the most urgent of pinches.....Even then I would probably opt to get a ride back to camp on the end of a tow strap first lol!

[keister]

You can’t go wrong using good name brand oil between 32: 1 and 40:1 and then properly jetting your ride

^^^ Agree ^^^

Gas and oil were different in 1985 when that 20:1 sticker was placed on your trike.
Personally, I run Blue Marble at 36:1 in my 250R. It is still at stock bore and the rings have been replaced once. I ride it often.

Best advice I can give is to buy a 'Ratio Rite' cup to get it right.
Also, don't trust the graduated lines on the side of your gas can (1 gal, 2 gal, 3 gal, etc). Plastic gas cans tend to expand and contract with temperature making the lines inaccurate. Measure your gas using the gas pump at the Sunoco station.

[El Camexican]

Best advice I can give is to buy a 'Ratio Rite' cup to get it right.
Also, don't trust the graduated lines on the side of your gas can (1 gal, 2 gal, 3 gal, etc). Plastic gas cans tend to expand and contract with temperature making the lines inaccurate. Measure your gas using the gas pump at the Sunoco station.

Amen to that. My high dollar fuel jug is off by almost an inch!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Big X2 on the ratio-right cup as well!! Makes mixing almost any possible ratio you could ever want a breeze!

[El Camexican]

I always take my mixing jug with me on trips and its great, but the hard part is determining exactly how much gas the twelve year old girl on the trail side communal Mexican ranch actually poured out of the rusty metal milk can and into my tank. I much prefer it when they use the clear 2 liter Coke bottles to portion out the fuel and even more so when they aren’t smoking at the same time!

[4x4van]

I personal run at 50:1 and use golden spektro synthetic 2 stroke oil.
Same here, Golden Spectro, 12oz to 5 gal. (actually works out to about 53:1). I've run that mix in every 2-stroke I've ever owned since the 70's. Best advice I can give is to buy a good quality oil, and then mix it at the OIL MANUFACTURER'S recommended ratio. It will say, right on the bottle.

Read my post on page two of this thread:http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/53212-All-About-2-stroke-Oil-Ratios.-Interesting-find/page2for more detail on how your premix ratio affects your jetting.

[Popeye]

I've never ridden a two-stroke, but I am close to finishing my 300r build. I plan on running a high quality oil (undecided on brand) at 32:1 just because it seems safe and is probably the most often recommended ratio I've seen on here. I know nothing about jetting. Can anybody recommend jet sizes for that ratio in a 300r motor? According to online sources, the average elevation for my area is 211 feet if that really matters.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread. I was hoping it would add to the information found here.

[3Razors]

I don't have time to write a saga on this but simply put "there is no 1 size fits all" whens it comes to oil ratios and oil.

Oil ratio is strictly determined by what sustained rpm the bike is being run at.

An engine that sees sustained 10K rpm or more such as a 125 or 250 motor on a TT track will have a very short lifespan with a 50:1 oil ratio. If you took apart that motor and mic'd the crankshaft bearings/piston/ect you will find more wear than an identical engine being run 20:1 or so richer.

Now a trails bike or trail cruiser might live just fine on a 50:1 or leaner mixture for longterm use. It comes down to the more rpm you run your bike the more oil that is necessary for it to live a happy life.

Following what the oil manufacturer recommended for mixtures is not the end all answer and can be deadly to a motor. There are many factors that play when bogus advertising on the bottle claims saying "run 100:1" or other bs. Mainly these boutique oil have to justify there higher priced tags so they try and squeak by with leaner ratios. I have seen more seized up motors from people running Amsoil's ridiculous 50-100:1 ratios than I handle.

[El Camexican]

I've never ridden a two-stroke, but I am close to finishing my 300r build. I plan on running a high quality oil (undecided on brand) at 32:1 just because it seems safe and is probably the most often recommended ratio I've seen on here. I know nothing about jetting. Can anybody recommend jet sizes for that ratio in a 300r motor?

What kind of carb are you planning to run? I just spent a few hours sorting out the 38mm PWK Keihin on my enduro bike. Its actually a lot of fun except for removing and installing the carb on a hot engine. Be glad to share some of the things I learned. Plan on buying a lot of brass if you want to do it right.

[Xpress]

Best advice I can give is to buy a 'Ratio Rite' cup to get it right.
Also, don't trust the graduated lines on the side of your gas can (1 gal, 2 gal, 3 gal, etc). Plastic gas cans tend to expand and contract with temperature making the lines inaccurate.

Absolutely. I never trust the gas can, only the machine that spits the fuel out (considering they have to be accurate by law). Ratio Rite cups are also amazing.

[Popeye]

I don't have time to write a saga on this but simply put "there is no 1 size fits all" whens it comes to oil ratios and oil.

Oil ratio is strictly determined by what sustained rpm the bike is being run at.



Yea, I didn't consider that or carb size when I posted the question. Probably don't have enough info to provide you, but I am definitely not a hard rider. I can see my self zipping around in 3rd or so, but never wot in 5th. Just don't have that need for speed lol. Probably could have went with something besides a 300r lol. But that is what was laying around.

[4x4van]

I
An engine that sees sustained 10K rpm or more such as a 125 or 250 motor on a TT track will have a very short lifespan with a 50:1 oil ratio. If you took apart that motor and mic'd the crankshaft bearings/piston/ect you will find more wear than an identical engine being run 20:1 or so richer.

Now a trails bike or trail cruiser might live just fine on a 50:1 or leaner mixture for longterm use. It comes down to the more rpm you run your bike the more oil that is necessary for it to live a happy life.

I guess I will respectfully disagree with you on that point. I've ridden 2-strokes since the 70's, and spent 6 years racing in the desert, expert class. I'd wager that my engines were indeed run at high RPMs/high loads, for even much longer periods than a TT racer and under much more extreme conditions (dust, heat, etc), yet I've never, in 45+ years, had an engine failure that could be attributed to pre-mix related issues. And during all of that time, I ran Golden Spectro at 53:1. 100:1? Now that seems too extreme even for me to believe, but since I've never run a "boutique" oil that claimed that, I can't really comment on it. I've actually seen engines seize up because the owners decided to run 20:1, and that mixture was so rich that it leaned the jetting out so badly that seizure was the result, whereas the only engines I've ever seen seize up due to not enough oil was two bikes; one was equiped with an oil injector that failed, so therefore the engine ran straight gas, the other was a tri-zinger that I had removed the oil injector in order to run pre-mix, and a friend accidentally refilled it (while I was out riding) with straight gas. As I said in my longer "linked" post, pre-mix ratios and carb jetting must be done hand-in-hand, as they are closely related and each one affects the other.

BTW, I'm still running the original crank bearings in my 85 250R, which I purchased brand new (in August '84), and has run nothing but GS at 53:1 for it's entire, highly modified life, running hard and hill racing hard in the sand dunes of Glamis. It will still outrun 90% of the quads out there on the hills, unless they are very heavily modified.

[El Camexican]

This is why I can’t worry too much about my oil ratios when I ride down here. That can has a claimed capacity of 2 gallons, but I’m not sure if that’s with or without all the dents:wondering

Regardless of the cost ($3.85gal.), quantity or quality it sure beats the alternative of walking:)

153870

[bkm]

Here is what Harry Klemm has to say on the subject.

http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

[fabiodriven]

Here is what Harry Klemm has to say on the subject.

http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

This is the first oil thread I've read in years that not only taught me something, it taught me many things.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/egregious_girl/gifs/movies%20and%20telly/classic%20hollywood/1233928590_citizenkaneclapping.gif

[bkm]

This is the first oil thread I've read in years that not only taught me something, it taught me many things.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/egregious_girl/gifs/movies%20and%20telly/classic%20hollywood/1233928590_citizenkaneclapping.gif
I also found it very informative. I came across it last night while researching Klemm and thought it needed to be shared and what made me feel good was I followed a lot of the same thoughts that he has shared.