Project 185 - old school racer

[ShaneNP123]

Ever since since flipping through a 1982 issue of DirtWheels and looking at the pictures of Curtis Sparks and Tommy Gaian Tearing up the track on Team Honda's 200's I knew i had to build something like that. The old school 200's just look so bad ass. I then read through an article of the installation of a PK suspension kit on atc 185 collecting ideas. I did lots of research and parts collecting and reading through others builds on suspending a hardtail trike. I finally started my project a few weeks ago and have been taking lots of pictures. So here's my progress.


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/CopyofDSC07582.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07585.jpg

Pile of parts

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/CopyofDSC07583.jpg

The donor

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/CopyofDSC07581.jpg

[ShaneNP123]

Stripping the donor, at first i planned to use the swing arm from the dirt bike and modify it to accept the trike rear end but decided against it because it would take far too much work to make it work, and i would just end up with a cobbled up swingarm. So I fabricated the swinger from scratch.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/CopyofDSC07586.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07587.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07593.jpg

[atc007]

I have a good feeling about this one : )

[ShaneNP123]

Junk engine i threw in for mock-up purposes, mainly sprocket alignment.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07592.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07595.jpg

Brace I had to add

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07597.jpg

Forks From the CR i will use, Planning on fabbing my own triples from some DOM

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08022.jpg

Fabbing the swinger. I cut the pivot ends off the CR swinger to use for the new one.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07959.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07958.jpg

Plates welded on.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07960.jpg

Gusset Templates

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07982.jpg

Gussets all welded

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07983.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07984.jpg

Axle and rear end mounted

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08012.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08013.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08014.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08015.jpg

[ctk]

Good looking welds. Keep us posted on your progress.

[dcreel]

Looking good.... Love to see a good weld...

[ShaneNP123]

Pivot end full welded, still needs some smoothing out

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08023.jpg

some pics of stripping the 185 frame. I should have put them in earlier.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07588.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07589.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC07590.jpg

Template for the swing arm mount

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08018.jpg

Plate Tacked in

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08020.jpg

then full welded and trimmed

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08021.jpg

I should have drilled the holes for the swinger bolt into the plates before mounting them so I knew they were the same. Oh well, learn from your mistakes.

Mocking up the swingarm

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08019.jpg

[zeeker1]

Looking great. I love a good fabricator. Here's some pix of some PK parts that they used for there 185S bolt on. I still have mine so if you need anymore, just ask..........zeeker

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[zeeker1]

Here's a couple more of my spare...........Just for ideas.

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[yaegerb]

Great work! You weld for a living? Your welds look like a roll of nickles.....love it!

[KASEY]

fyi.. it looks like your swinger pivot will be approx 2inches further back than a pk kit,,,, which is ok if you get the position of the bolt perfect,, if not i think the chain will tighten and slack off as the suspension works and sense you are back more then it will be amplified

[Blown 331]

I love it already. I have a suspended 185 project myself.

[ShaneNP123]

Great work! You weld for a living? Your welds look like a roll of nickles.....love it!

Haha thanks, I'm actually an apprentice truck mechanic, but I started playing with welding when i was 12. So I've got about 6 years of practice.

[ShaneNP123]

Thanks for the pics zeeker. It gave me a good idea for a chain tensioner. I'll have to copy it.

[ShaneNP123]

fyi.. it looks like your swinger pivot will be approx 2inches further back than a pk kit,,,, which is ok if you get the position of the bolt perfect,, if not i think the chain will tighten and slack off as the suspension works and sense you are back more then it will be amplified

I was thinking about that a lot, the chain tightening under compression or droop. But my swingarm bolt looks almost in the same spot as a PK weld on kit, I tried to copy it from a magazine. But i figure it will be a lot of trial and error involved. I just snapped some pics out of the magazine article and will post them when my camera battery charges, in the meantime here is the swinger hanging from the bike

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08025.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08024.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08026.jpg

[KASEY]

what you can do .. time consuming as hell,,, figure out where your swinger will be top and bottom of its travel. then set it up at mid travel.. the swinger bolt should be exactly centered between the countershaft and the rear axle,,, that is about as good as you can do,,,

[ShaneNP123]

what you can do .. time consuming as hell,,, figure out where your swinger will be top and bottom of its travel. then set it up at mid travel.. the swinger bolt should be exactly centered between the countershaft and the rear axle,,, that is about as good as you can do,,,

Ya I see what your saying, ill have to play with the positioning, right now its pretty close to being centerline when the swinger is laid flat out.

[ShaneNP123]

The pics i snapped out of the magazine, sorry I dont have a scanner.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08030.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08029.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08028.jpg

[zeeker1]

I absolutely agree with Kasey on the proper center line. Many guys have built them wrong and snapped the chain before they made one lap around the back yard. After your last post I went out in the garage and measured mine. In the pics I posted you'll notice that PK built the swinger offset and welded the bearing tube lower than the center line. Why lower, I don't know but offset, The nub on the left is where the chain rides to the back sprocket.I see you have a chain on it so you must have figured that out. On Pk's kit it measures almost exactly three inches center to center from the center of the brake pedal post to the swinger bolt. A couple more pics just for drill. Most of my riding was in the woods so I wanted a skid plate. Nobody made one back then so I remodeled mine. I cut a piece of pipe down and welded it in to protect the chain tension-er and welded in some side plates. It's HEAVY but it has always worked.

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[3wheelrider]

The pics i snapped out of the magazine, sorry I dont have a scanner.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08030.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08029.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC08028.jpg
Can someone tell me what brand/make this weld on kit is in the black/white ad? I have that same kit!-but dont know the maker.

[thestud25]

It is a PK weld on kit.:rolleyes:

[ShaneNP123]

Kind of at a stand still now, I built the upper shock mount and mounted the shock. I have been playing with the swingarm geometry and the tightening and loosening of the chain through the swingers travel. Since I have the pivot point so far back from the countershaft the chain really loosens under full droop and compression, So im thinking of ways to move it closer, thinking about sort of copying the 1st gen 200x swinger mount, stay tuned..

[ShaneNP123]

Moved away from home into an apartment about an hour from home so i only get weekends to tinker on stuff, so on saturday i rebuilt the swinger mounts, this way its mounted closer to the countershaft and the chain doesnt tighten or loosen as much through the swingers cycle

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09386.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09385.jpg

I picked up a set of 110 fenders that arent broken all to pieces, rare around here to find good parts, i will polish them up in the final stages. I will make them work and i think they have the right look, i also want to run a similar type of tire as in the picture,(its just a lawn tractor tire and rim sitten on the end of the axle for mock up) probably an 18 inch tire on period correct steel wheels, I also plan to run 400ex hubs to widen the ass end a little

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09389.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09390.jpg
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http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09392.jpg

[jon jon]

sweet ride bud. cant wait to see how it looks

[matt22895]

Looking Great!

[ShaneNP123]

Should I go with an 8 or a 9 inch rim? im undecided, might end up going with two sets in the end, a set of 18's on 8" wheels and probably 20's on 9 inch wheels for trail riding

[ShaneNP123]

Well I just bought a brand new set of 400ex rear hubs. They should be here soon!

[ShaneNP123]

Another overdue update. I don't have much time for working on the atc but tonight I made a little step forward. I bought a 250SX front end assembly with a good front fender and good white headlight shell. I plan to graft a 200/185 steering stem onto the 250sx lower triple so the 185 frame will accept the triples from the SX. I forgot to mention that the CR front forks are the same diameter as the SX forks so they slide right into the triples and give me the old school fat tire front end look I was shooting for. The CR forks are around six inches longer than the SX's and have more travel and I assume a smoother ride. I took a couple quick pictures of it sitting together. (It still has the SX forks and a flat tire on the front in the pics)

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09672.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09676.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09678.jpg

Tonight I also picked up a set of rear wheels mounted on 400ex rims. They are Pirelli Race Rail's 20x11x9. I plan to just use these when trail/all around riding.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09673.jpg



I also picked up a 1983 ATC 200 chassis (not pictured) with a fresh 200X top end with a 10.25:1 piston in it. It has zero hours on the top end. Me and a friend put it together and could never get it to run right so it got put on the back burner. Should make good parts machine for this build.

The 400ex hubs I ordered on Ebay still haven't showed up. According to the tracking info it appears they still haven't been shipped. Might have to open a case on Ebay if the seller doesn't get back to me.

[Gearheadtom]

Looks awesome! It should stand out pretty good, there not much more than stock beaters around here.

[ShaneNP123]

Looks awesome! It should stand out pretty good, there not much more than stock beaters around here.

Thanks! And i know, not many people seem to care about them, they just get run into the ground. I kick my own ass for getting rid of my 200x. Im pretty sure its destroyed now.

[ShaneNP123]

Here is the front end i removed the steering stem from.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09690.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09691.jpg

The 250's lower triple with the 200 steering stem welded in and greased bearings.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09693.jpg

And here it is bolted into the frame.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09696.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09697.jpg

Here it is mounted and the CR forks slid into the triples.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09700.jpg

The stock steering stops actually line up too, but the stop on the frame is a little chewed up. I'll have to fix it when i tear it down to paint everything.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09699.jpg


What do you guys think of the angle of the forks? I thought it was pretty good for not modding anything, I've seen a lot of poorly done conversions with the forks laid out like a chopper, I hate that and bet it handles like crap too.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09701.jpg

The most involved part of the front end swap is going to be the front axle. I'm going to have to see a machine shop about making me one.

[ShaneNP123]

Here's the other parts bike I picked up, 10.25:1 Piston and 200X cylinder have 0 hours on them. I can't remember what it was bored at, I think it was .040 piston but I'm not sure.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09694.jpg

I'm going to use the cylinder and piston from this bike and I'm currently searching for an XR200 bottom end. I don't plan on reversing the kicker unless the 200X parts fall into my lap, Kicking backwards will not bother me much anyways since my rear fenders will be easy to remove. I'm also planning to use an XR top end parts, mainly a cam and carb.

I also got a nice straight grab bar. The reflector tabs are all bent thought but I think ill just cut them off for a cleaner look.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC09695.jpg

[ShaneNP123]

Update time.

The hubs I got on Ebay finally showed, I got them from Hellbound Racing, which after reading through some of their feedback I do not recomend them to anyone in Canada or outside of the USA, They have terrible customer service. I sent them two emails asking about why they hadnt shipped them both of which never got answered, I had to open a case through customer support just to get them to ship them, a couple days after opening the case they finally sent them out and I recieved them about 6 days later. They are OEM Honda and got them very cheap compared to what the dealer wanted. I think the hubs combimed with the 400ex wheels give it a good stance. and if I ever wanted to go a little wider I coulod swap to an axle from a 200.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0009.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0006.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0004.jpg

I also started scraping the mant layers of paint from the tank on the parts bike and stuck it on the frame, unsure if i will use it though as it has some dents and pinholes down in the rear corners of the tank.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0011.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0010.jpg

I also slid the swinger back about 1.5 inches to the second hole I drilled to see how it looked, what do ya think looks better?

Ahead.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0001.jpg

1.5" back

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/DSC_0003.jpg

[250sxman]

That's a sick 185! Got any motor plans for it?

The 2nd pic looks better IMHO

[ShaneNP123]

That's a sick 185! Got any motor plans for it?

The 2nd pic looks better IMHO

Thanks ! And yes I have a .040 over 200X cylinder with a 10.25:1 piston. I plan to drop it onto a 6 speed XR200 bottom end. I'm also going to run an xr200 cam and carb with a good pipe. I've been thinking about a ported and polished head too.

[Micahdogg]

Not sure if you figured out your chain tensioner issue or not, but I immediately thought of an aftermarket product that was used on the Honda trx250x's. It was a chain tensioner that bolted onto the side of the swingarm and had a spring loaded sprocket on top and bottom that the chain rode on. It wasn't used so much as a tensioner, but as a way to remove all slack from the chain. They said it made a HUGE difference in response.

Unfortuantely I can't remember the name of the company - I wanna say it was a "Z Tensioner" or something. But you might be able to make something like that which would serve double duty as more effective way to keep tension on the chain and it would help keep the chain in alignment.


157125

[ShaneNP123]

Not sure if you figured out your chain tensioner issue or not, but I immediately thought of an aftermarket product that was used on the Honda trx250x's. It was a chain tensioner that bolted onto the side of the swingarm and had a spring loaded sprocket on top and bottom that the chain rode on. It wasn't used so much as a tensioner, but as a way to remove all slack from the chain. They said it made a HUGE difference in response.

Unfortuantely I can't remember the name of the company - I wanna say it was a "Z Tensioner" or something. But you might be able to make something like that which would serve double duty as more effective way to keep tension on the chain and it would help keep the chain in alignment.


157125

Actually I got a similar idea from "ametzker's" 185 suspension build thread.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/ShaneNP123/Project%20atc%20185/chaintensioneridea.jpg

[captainweezy]

Hows this build going? any updates? I think what Micah is remembering is the amp link.

[ShaneNP123]

Thought I would bring you guys up to speed, not that there's much to tell, the bike still sits pretty much in the same state that I last showed it in. But I was cleaning out the shed last weekend and dug it out from beneath it's pile of truck hoods and fenders and the like, and well seeing the bike made me want to get back to work on it.

Between work, and rebuilding my '79 F100 the 185 has been very neglected, I'm hoping to turn this into my little project to pick away on the cold winter nights that are soon approaching.

I have since bought a 200X bottom end, the trans and kicker gears are all good, but the rod was trashed. So I bought a new Vesrah rod kit and engine gasket set. The bottom end was missing the kick lever, so I picked one up off Ebay in very nice shape. Still need to get to a machine shop to get my new rod on the crank, then I can get the bottom end reassembled.

[Dirtcrasher]

Awesome work!!

You are certainly making it happen, that sloppy chain had me worried but you seem aware of it and it all looks super nice!!!!!

Only about 25% of work like this seems to be done correctly so I love seeing it done well.

Keep us up to date; 5 or more years ago we had few MAD SCIENTISTS but you all keep coming out with awesome creations. Thanks so much!!

Steve
DC

[ShaneNP123]

Thanks DirtCrasher, I`m always thinking of things to build. Ive got too many projects...

[ShaneNP123]

Well last night I came across an XR200 on kijiji for cheap. I jumped right on the ad and picked it up after work, a running '97 xr200 for $250, can't beat that! So I now have all the parts i need to put an engine in the 185.

In the end ill have a forward kicking, 6 speed, .040 overbore, 10.25:1 piston, XR cam, XR carb, and XR head, Just need to find a pipe now! Or try my hand at building one.

[manbearpig]

ive got a bassani that came from a suspended 185S. sounds like just what youre lookin for. muffler mounts to the outside of the frame so it'll clear the suspension components. PM me if interested

id imagine most 200x exhausts will work too as the mufflers mount outside the frame.

[Ol Deuce]

When is "D" day on your Project???? Looking good Ol Deuce

[Dave8338]

GREAT looking project. Like where you're going with this ! AND...and and and... it's a 185 ! ! !:w00t:

[ShaneNP123]

Haha just a 185 frame, that's about it! And thanks for the offer Manbearpig, But this is a very low budget build. The xr came with a good size muffler, a few dents but I`ll be able to straighten and clean it up so it looks half decent. Unsure of the brand though. I've been wanting to take a whack at building a headpipe.

Oh and D-day is any day i get a chance to work on it haha, This has been an ongoing project. It`s already been buried in the shed twice then dug back out when I get a spurt of motivation.

[waynekreitzmann]

This has given me some great ideas for my 185 awesome work would love to see finished product.

[86125m]

Looks great I don't have enough bravory to even attempt to cut up a 200 frame but I do know where a reallly nice 200x roller is and I have a spare 200 engine sitting around that I would love to put in that bad boy.

[slashfan7964]

Any chance of a rear disc brake conversion?

[Darius1502]

Love this project...can't wait for updates!!

[daddy420big]

me eather like to know what all you did on the sx front ?

[captainweezy]

Any updates?